Discrepancies between the Bible and Quran
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Topic: Discrepancies between the Bible and Quran
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Discrepancies between the Bible and Quran
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 03:08
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Replies:
Posted By: strategos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 03:15
Perhaps translation problems.. ------------- http://theforgotten.org/intro.html |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 04:52
And what's your point here? It might be of course that Mohammed, after having done some extensive research, could improve on the historical accuracy of the bible. The book is not exactly known for the precision of its accounts of historical events. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 05:30
This obviously proves that muslims are always wrong, sheez, where have you been all your life  Note for the dimwitted, that was sarcasm. -------------  Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 06:12
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Oh you mean those two books of murky origin written by a bunch of
mysoginistic, homophobic, unworldy, socially outcast old goat
herders.......... Yes I would expect such pieces of literature to have the occasional bit of inaccuracy. It's kind of like Hollywood, of dubious quality but they still manage to get their audience, even if it is done through threats of fire and brimstone. ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 06:15
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Hm, that was a little harsh of me, I was just being flippant.
Personally I do not have much faith in those works as they were
compiled in the name of men who were dead when they were written. Had
Jesus or Mohammed actually sat down and dictated and edited such works
I would take them more seriously, but they were written by disciples
who are prone to lapses in memory and bias like every other human being
ever born.
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Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 06:33
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i dont feel like to get into a detailed discussion about this, jut to point out that there are some misunderstanding in transilation there but then Who cares, Muslims are Muslims and christans are christans , many people from both sides are showing "how wrong " the other is. plus that i dont think you "the kid" up to a discussion since what you post is more likely a Copy/past job. just as an example from the misunderstanding in transilation the name "Aziz" was not the name of the man who bought Joseph it was his title and in that sentence it meant like a minister or something like that rank. lol ------------- 
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Posted By: Kalevipoeg
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 07:57
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Indeed, who cares of what the books contain, they are a bunch of
science-fiction pieces in the first place. The main thing is to believe
in God, not to compare Islam and Christianity, which are the one and
the same religion, just in different cultural districts. ------------- There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge... |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:38
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Have you considered that Muhammad may have discovered a superior source of information on these subjects and was in fact simply correcting mistakes in the Bible. ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:44
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i dont know much about the Bible but the Quran was written when Prophet Mohammed was alive.
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:44
He hasn't obviously, but I did in my above post!  ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Ahmed The Fighter
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 10:32
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One God(Allah) one holy book(Qura'n) and what you are talking about is no more arabized word or translated word in Qura'n Azer the uncle of prophet Abraham (pbuh). ------------- "May the eyes of cowards never sleep" Khalid Bin Walid 
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Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 10:55
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OK you got that one in first and I completely missed it's. Still it's such a good one it deserves saying twice.... ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 11:45
According to Quran, Christians and Jews are guilty of modifying the text of the book, specially to hide the announcement of Muhammed. Jesus wasn't crucified and died but it was another man or an illusion or something... But according to the Bible, the earth is flat and pigs fly, a it's usually said. As someone said above, it's all just but science-fiction, like that Arkansan Jurassic Park of Eden that someone posted about in another thread.  ------------- 
NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: Belisarius
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 11:56
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I do not feel like going too deep into detail, but a couple of these points have obviously been misunderstood. Christians do not worship three gods. They worship one God who has three forms in the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Mary is not worshipped as a god by any Christian denomination. Wine and sex in heaven was just a metaphor for the reward that comes in heaven, not because Muhammad wanted his followers to get drunk and have orgies when they died. I'm shaking my head here.  ------------- |
Posted By: Ahmed The Fighter
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 12:53
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God dont need to take a form God overall everything and what you mean by father amd who is the son exp;ain please. ------------- "May the eyes of cowards never sleep" Khalid Bin Walid
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Posted By: Ahmed The Fighter
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:05
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In islam jesus (pbuh) was not crucify he gone to heaven and someone like him crucified . this man who slandered to jesus. ------------- "May the eyes of cowards never sleep" Khalid Bin Walid
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Posted By: Belisarius
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:15
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In Christianity, God is one spirit in three forms, God the Creator, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit itself.
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:16
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And some further comments, Christians dont worship 3 gods, they worship one god with multiple personality disorder as well as bipolar with extremes of great kindness and total genocidal vindictiveness. And the Qu'ran was not really written in Muhammads lifetime, it was compiled from his (supposed) sayings via long lines of what was effectively a game of whisper down the lane. The actual compilation occured at least 100 years after Muhammads death. Even my Islamic Afghan proffesor doenst deny this. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
That is possibly the greatest post AE has ever had!Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:27
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This whole thread has become B.S. With what is being thrown around here, it is no wonder Moslems and Christians will never understand each other. It seems hopeless. |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:28
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lol that the Hadeth not the Quran is what you are talking about Tobodai the Quran was written in his lifetime
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:28
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They can never get along because they are so simialr. its like marrying two obnoxious people for life. They are both obnoxious and the same in every way so they cant get along. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:30
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lol these two posts were posted at the same time
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:34
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yes but how can we prove the Qu'ran was written in his lifetime? Christians say the Bible was written right after Jesus death but theres no proof. Hearsay is not proof. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:34
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For starters, the Kid seems to be on a kick with such postings. Next, both texts have numerous passages that reflect and represent the 'One God' belief. Names have significance due to historical time and place and language. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his eldest son-which was Ismail. And so on and so on..... Another point, you may have found some differences among texts. Good for you. Now find out if they really are different, and if so, why! You might learn more than you already know. Lastly, the Koran was wriiten in Muhammad's time. A formal compilation from his direction was eventually used at a later date too. References for making the written Koran were Muhammad, the immediate believers, and ayats written on parchments etc. Since Muhammad's first recitation of the Koran from God and the angel Gabriel, the Koran has been preached and practiced everyday by the believers. It did not just spurt into fruition after a long lag of time. On the other hand dubious sayings that, unfortunately have prominance in the moslem societies, are regarded as the hadiths. They are not part of the Koran though. ------------- |
Posted By: Belisarius
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 13:37
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What is the big deal? It is the same God. You guys are all my brothers, as far as I am concerned. However, since we are just goofing around, it is the Jewish God that had the genocidal tendencies. ------------- |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 16:13
Be it more precise, please. It is no wonder that a minority of fanatics of both Muslims and Christians will never understand each other, and don't want to either. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 16:20
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Inaccuracies of the Bible:
Where shall we start: 1.) There is no god. 2.) Therefore he didn't create the universe in seven days. 3.) He therefore couldn't have created Adam and Eve who therefore couln't have existed. 4.).........and so on, ad infinitum. And you have the nerve to criticise the Quran for mispelling and confusing a few names? ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: strategos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 16:38
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Thanks for respecting everyones beliefs Komnenos... ------------- http://theforgotten.org/intro.html |
Posted By: Miller
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 17:00
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Even most Muslims dont claim that Quran was compiled during Mohammeds life. The claim I have heard most often is that earliest compilation of Quran was done at the time of Uthman and at that time there were many version of Quran that he tried to unify. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about this
According to secular scholarsThere is no one theory of Quranic origins that is accepted by all Western-style or secular scholars. Many scholars have accepted something like the traditional Muslim version. They believe that Muhammad put forth verses and laws that he claimed to be of divine origin; that his followers memorized or wrote down his revelations; that numerous versions of these revelations circulated after his death in 632 CE, and that Uthman ordered the collection and ordering of this mass of material in the time period (650-656) described by the Islamic scholars. These Western scholars point to many characteristics of the Qur'an -- the repetitions, the arbitrary ordering, the mixture of styles and genres -- as indicative of a human collection process that was extremely respectful of the original sources. There has been no evident organizing and harmonizing of the text. These scholars account for the many similarities between the Qur'an and the Jewish and Hebrew scriptures by saying that Muhammad was teaching what he believed a universal history, as he had heard it from the Jews and Christians he had encountered in Arabia and on his travels. Differences between the Qur'an and the Judeo-Christian scriptures can usually be explained by Muhammad's reliance on folk traditions rather than the actual text of the scriptures. There have been many studies of Muhammad's sources in the Jewish http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Mishnah - Mishnah , http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Gemara - Gemara , and http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Midrash - Midrash , and the Christian http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Apocrypha - Apocrypha . This, of course, directly contradicts the Islamic teaching that it is the Judeo-Christian texts that are corrupt.Western scholars also dispute the Islamic belief that the whole of the Qur'an is addressed by God to humankind. They note that there are numerous passages where God is directly addressed, or mentioned in the third person, or where the narrator swears by various entities, including God.
Western scholars have also been bold enough to point out obscurities in the text, claiming that Muslim commentators have invented explanations rather than admit that they don't know what a word means. Some Western scholars have been actively trying to interpret these obscure words by reference to languages that Muhammad might have encountered, such as Aramaic and Syriac, and from which he might have adopted words not then found in Arabic. Some scholars have tried to resolve obscurities by positing textual corruption, and advancing plausible replacements -- which is, of course, anathema in Muslim eyes. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is complete, perfect, and uncorrupted. Some Western scholars are less willing to attribute the entire Qur'an to Muhammad. They argue that there is no real proof that the text of the Qur'an was collected under Uthman, since the earliest surviving copies of the complete Qur'an are centuries later than Uthman. (The oldest existing copy of the full text is from the ninth century http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/features/quran/index.shtml - [2] .) They see Islam as being formed slowly, over the centuries after the Muslim conquests, as the Islamic conquerors elaborated their beliefs in response to Jewish and Christian challenges.One influential proponent of this point of view was Dr. http://www.allempires.com/wiki/John_Wansbrough - John Wansbrough , an English academic. Wansbrough wrote in a dense, complex, almost hermetic style, and he has had much more influence on Islamic studies through his students, http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Michael_Cook - Michael Cook and http://www.allempires.com/w/index.php?title=Patricia_Crone&action=edit - Patricia Crone than he has through his own writings. In 1977 Crone and Cook published a book called Hagarism, which argued that,
Hagarism was extremely controversial at the time, as it challenged not only Muslim orthodoxy, but the prevailing attitudes among secular Islamicists. Crone and Cook have since retreated from their extreme claims that the Qur'an evolved over several centuries, but they still believe that the Sunni scholarly tradition is extremely unreliable, as it projects current Sunni orthodoxy onto the past -- much as if http://www.allempires.com/wiki/New_Testament - New Testament scholars were dedicated to proving that http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Jesus - Jesus was a http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Presbyterian - Presbyterian or a http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Methodist - Methodist . http://www.allempires.com/w/index.php?title=Fred_Donner&action=edit - Fred Donner has argued against Crone and Cook, and for an early date for the collection of the Qur'an, based on his reading of the text itself. He points out that if the Qur'an had been collected over the tumultuous early centuries of Islam, with their vast conquests and bloody squabbles between rivals for the caliphate, there would have been some evidence of this history in the text. However, there is nothing in the Qur'an that does not reflect what is known of the earliest Muslim community. (Narratives of Islamic Origins: The Beginnings of Islamic Historical Writing, Donner, Darwin Press, 1998, p. 60.)Recent archaeological finds have also shed some light on the origins of the Qur'an. In 1972, during the restoration of the Great Mosque of http://www.allempires.com/wiki/San%27a - San'a , in http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Yemen - Yemen , laborers stumbled upon a "paper grave" containing tens of thousands of fragments of parchment on which verses of the Qur'an were written. (Qur'ans were and still are disposed thus, so as to avoid the impiety of treating the sacred text like ordinary garbage.) Some of these fragments were the oldest Quranic texts yet found http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran1.html - [3] . The European scholar http://www.allempires.com/w/index.php?title=Gerd-R._Puin&action=edit - Gerd-R. Puin has studied these fragments and published not only a corpus of texts, but some preliminary findings. Interestingly enough, the variations from the received text that he did find seemed to match variations reported by Islamic scholars, in their descriptions of the variant Qur'ans once held by Abdallah Ibn Masud, Ubay Ibn Ka'b, and http://www.allempires.com/wiki/Ali_ibn_Abi_Talib - Ali , and suppressed by Uthman's order. ("Observations on Early Qur'an Manuscripts in San'a", Puin, in The Qur'an as Text, ed. Wild, Brill, 1996) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 17:26
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Important point. Jehovah reffers to all of us as "cows providing milk". Anyway, I'll be a good cow and wont discuss Jewish religion. ------------- |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 18:11
No, no.  We should start like Spinoza (Ethics, First Part: on God, Definition VI): For God I understand an absolutely infinite being, that is a substance that has infinite attributes, each one of them express an absolute and infinite essence. Long life to Pantheism, the only possible explanation to All! While the Pan-Theos is not included in the Bible or the Quran... they are perfectly included in the Pan-Theos, as anything else. -------------
NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 19:05
As this is probably a criticism of my statement. Refuting somebody's belief does not necessarily mean not respecting it. On the contrary, respect it shown when one takes somebody else's belief that serious that one debates over it. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 19:33
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True, but overall Abrahamic religions as a whole are exclusionary, intolerant, and opressive. They are all effectively the same relgions and they are all very harmful for the earth, thankfully their absolutism prevents them from ever getting along. Not even amosgnst Muslims and Christians is there one unified doctrine, and I am very thankful for that. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: ill_teknique
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 02:55
qu'ran mentions the earth is round qu'ran says that the eartth was created in six and on the seventh god took his throne - not rested - as that would say that god is limited if god needs rest and i read the yussuf ali translation i did not catch a lot of these what site did you get them from? |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 07:44
 I was talking about the Bible (read before you post, damnit!). Also, the sentence Earth is flat and pigs fly is a topic saying to mean that they say nonsense... I don't think the Bible says that but says so many other inaccuracies, specially if you follow literalist fanatics, that it's the same. -------------
NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 07:51
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IIRC, the bible doesn't clearly say much on whether or not the Earth is
flat, with people who wish to believe either interpreting whichever
passages whichever way to suit their fancy. The church however,
contrary to the modern fairy tale, as for most of it existence accepted
that the Earth is in fact round (albeit at the centre of the universe,
which it is not). ------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 07:58
also ive heard of people claiming that the bible says the earth is 5000 years old... is this nonsens true? If this is true, bible needs to get updated man btw a new expansion pack or something  ------------- OUT OF LIMIT |
Posted By: cattus
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 12:52
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I know some Southern Baptist churches preach that. ------------- |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 13:34
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Abraham was willing to sacrifice his eldest son-which was Ismail.
In Jewish and Christian beliefs it was Issac and not Ishmail. Their tradition is much older but of course those terrible Christians and Jews some how corrupted the original text. In Sunday school, as a kid, I was taught the Christian view of this story. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 13:48
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Yeah older. If we were to consider the oldest as the most reliable ones, we should have been studying Enuma Elish in religion classes. Anyway, I guess that would be the best.... ------------- |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 14:16
Some literalists, very popular in the USA but fortunately despised as mere jerks in the rest of the world, believe that the Bible is true to the letter, no matter what science may say. Consequently they have added up the figures of the lives cited in the Genesis and other books and concluded that (with some discrepancies) the Garden of Eden existed c. 4500 BCE. As "obvioulsy" Yaveh created the Earth a few days before... the Earth can't be older than that and all that science that says that this our beloved planet has 4 billion years of existence is nonsense. For them a simple text is more accurate than any scientifical knowledge and they are working hard to forbid the teaching of the Theory of Evolution in schools and replace it by their Biblical creationist fantasies.  Still, they could be not far from the truth in a way, provided that the myth of Eden actually has something to do with the Sumerian pastures of Edin, where maybe the forebears of Abraham went with their goats and sheep c. 3500 years ago... but this is more like the accidental coincidence of the advisory titles of some films.
Sure! -------------
NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 10:02
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Shame on you!!! You are not authorized to discuss about the facts told by the word of Allah. We believe in Him and His Book. May be information in The BIBLE IS WRONG How could you detect that?. ISLAMIC FAITH REQUIRES BELIEVE IN THE TORAH AND THE BIBLE WITHOUT DOUBT. IT REMINDS THAT THEY ARE FALSIFIED AND REWRITTEN BY HUMANS. THAT IS WHY OUR GUIDE IS QURAN. IT IS THE BOOK OF PERFECTION AND HAS NO MISTAKE. I condemn you. peace of ALLAH be upon you. Now I can understand how you can kill mllions of Muslims in Iraq, In Bosnia, In Balkans and in other parts of the world. You are biased and you attempt to show your misinformation as the truth. QUIT IT MODERATORS PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD. AS A MUSLIM I AM REALLY INSULTED AND OFFENDED AND IT HURTS ME: THAT IS NOT SOMETHING DEBATABLE, IF IT KEEPS BEING DISCUSSED. ENMITY BETWEEN TWO RELIGION WILL GET PROFOUND.
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Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 10:05
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Tangriberdi Misunderstood the post of Maju i guess. ------------- OUT OF LIMIT |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 10:19
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weird, If you follow quran so fine, Tangriberdi Islam is banning racism.
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 15:15
How is the Qu ran different from the Bible and the Torah in this respect? All three are written by people hence why they are books. Therefore all 3 have equal chance of being wrong. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: cattus
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 15:37
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I changed the title, is it ok? If the content of this thread bothers you, please ignore it or give opposing views. ------------- |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 15:54
Everything can be discussed: science and truth are the essence of human thought (what is obvioulsy the most precious divine gift, if you happen to believe in God). Everything is debatable. If you don't like it, you can always ignore the arguments of those that do want to debate it - or find better arguments to support your own position. I prefer the second option, obviously because I think that absolutely everything is arguable and nothing should be left out of debate and scientifical scrutiny. What has made the West (and other regions and countries too) scientifically advanced is that acceptance that everything can be discussed and investigated. Some have opposed it but, like the shaman praying for rain in the middle of the desert, have failed to propose anything better. It's the old dilemma between myth and science. (Note: I don't deny all value to myth... but after all is just a story, whichever its merits). -------------
NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: strategos
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2005 at 16:04
If we can not even discuss, nothing can be solved. Is that any better? ------------- http://theforgotten.org/intro.html |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 08:42
| You may be right. Perhaps I am overreacting, I think I misunderstood before reading the whole. Sorry for provoking the discussion. |