Hun, Magyar, Turk , Finn words
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Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Linguistics
Forum Discription: Discuss linguistics: the study of languages
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4983
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Topic: Hun, Magyar, Turk , Finn words
Posted By: minchickie
Subject: Hun, Magyar, Turk , Finn words
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 18:30
English
Hun Magyar, 2004 Magyar, XI-XII c. Vogul Finnish Turkish (Ott.)
arrow neil nyíl ? nyál nuoli oguz?
hand kezi kéz kéz kát käszi ?
head phe fej fej pängk pää bas
woman inü nô né né nainen karď
horse lú ló ló luv hevonen at
dog kutha kutya ? kútyuv ? köpek
stone kevi kô kű kääv kivi tas
way utu út utu lyoh lű jol
three hurum három harmu hurum kolme ücs
yellow sarakh sárga sárig kaszm keltainen szarď ___________________________________
Number Hun Magyar Vogul Finnish Turkish (Ott.)
1 idzsi egy akv(a) ükszi bir
2 keltü két/kettô kit(igh) kakszi iki
3 khormu három húrum kolme ücs
4 nijdzsi négy nyila neljä dört
5 hütü öt at víszi bes
6 hotu hat hót kúszi altď
7 jeti hét szát szeitszemän jedi
8 loncsoj nyolc nyollov kahdekszan sekiz
9 klüntiz kilenc óntöllov ühdekszän doguz
10 tíz tíz lov kümmenen on
11 tiz hen idzsi tizenegy akwhujplov ükszitoiszta on bir
Number Animal Hun Magyar Turk. etym. Slavic etym. Uralic etym.
2 horse lú ló ulagh? - Yes
3 dog kutha kutya köpek?? - Yes
6 fish kala hal - - Yes
8 eagle sas sas ? - ?
9 falcon hülie ölyv Yes, B - -
10 raven khulla holló - - Yes
11 bull büka bika buka, B ?? -
12 ox üker ökör vögör, B - -
14 cow inke tehén - - -
16 bear hevi medve - Yes -
17 wolf jugra farkas - - -
18 fox vüla róka - - Yes
19 camel tüve teve Yes - -
20 ewe howi juh - - ??
21 mouse csucsa egér - - Yes
22 rat racsa patkány - Yes -
23 monkey majmun majom ? ? -
24 pig tonzu disznó Yes, B - -
25 horn(ed) szoru szarv(as) - - Yes
27 frog beka béka Yes, B - -
28 lark bulbül csalogány ! - -
29 snake kila kígyó - - Yes
30 lizard klik gyík - - ?
31 dragon vom sárkány Yes, B - -
____________________________
Word Hun 500 AD Magyar 1055 Magyar 2004
1 hand kezi kezi? kéz
2 heart szerti ? szív
3 blood veri veri? vér
4 red verisi ? véres
5 water vezi ? víz
6 way utu utu út
7 bow viju ? íj
8 arid sziki székü szik-
____________________________
What are Magyar & Hungarian? Magyar is a language and an ethnic entity (facts & beliefs will come soon), Hungary is a state. If you meet a language called "Hungarian", it is very probably Magyar. Magyar language is surely not Indo-European, and has some kinship with Finnish & Estonian; the exact degree of this kinship is a matter of argumentation. That degree is just depending on some Armenian texts on which this study has been written, so wait to the end. However an almost unequivocal academic consensus does exist and that will be recapitiulated early in the main text.
The best story of the Uralic paradigm starts with a purely Uralic scenario up to the end of pre- (or proto-)Magyar times, and then applies heavy Turkish influence from Southeast in the middle of the first millenium AD. Finns were already too far to West and Ob Ugors too Northward. Then Magyars entered the Migration, and on horseback they traversed the space between the Ural River and the Carpathian Basin, while they adopted Turkish way of life and the words denoting its specific notions, plus a lot of fashion words too. Also, living in a confederation of tribes, some tribes of Turkish origin may have been incorporated.
However a diametrically opposite Turkish paradigm exists too, in which Magyars are not Turkized Ugors, but Ugrized Turks. Supporters of such a view are in utter minority amongst linguists, but not so small minority amongst anthropologists, and the idea is fairly acceptable for Turks.
Note that it is not easy to settle the question for ever. Namely, languages can be learnt; and words can be borrowed even more easily. Grammar is more conservative, until it breaks down in Pidginisation, as Anglo-Saxon & Norman French simultaneously lost almost all of their synthetic structures about 1100 AD in fusing into Middle English. Now, Magyar is moderately polysynthetic even now, so it has not undergone Pidginisation. However Uralic and Altaic grammars are rather similar for first principles.
LOOK how close Magyar Language is still to HUN Language still!!!
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Replies:
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 19:02
Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog.
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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 20:18
Originally posted by minchickie
What are Magyar & Hungarian? Magyar is a language and an ethnic
entity (facts & beliefs will come soon), Hungary is a state. If you
meet a language called "Hungarian", it is very probably Magyar. Magyar
language is surely not Indo-European, and has some kinship with Finnish
& Estonian; the exact degree of this kinship is a matter of
argumentation. That degree is just depending on some Armenian texts on
which this study has been written, so wait to the end. However an
almost unequivocal academic consensus does exist and that will be
recapitiulated early in the main text.
The best story of the
Uralic paradigm starts with a purely Uralic scenario up to the end of
pre- (or proto-)Magyar times, and then applies heavy Turkish influence
from Southeast in the middle of the first millenium AD. Finns were
already too far to West and Ob Ugors too Northward. Then Magyars
entered the Migration, and on horseback they traversed the space
between the Ural River and the Carpathian Basin, while they adopted
Turkish way of life and the words denoting its specific notions, plus a
lot of fashion words too. Also, living in a confederation of tribes,
some tribes of Turkish origin may have been incorporated.
However
a diametrically opposite Turkish paradigm exists too, in which Magyars
are not Turkized Ugors, but Ugrized Turks. Supporters of such a view
are in utter minority amongst linguists, but not so small minority
amongst anthropologists, and the idea is fairly acceptable for Turks.
Note
that it is not easy to settle the question for ever. Namely, languages
can be learnt; and words can be borrowed even more easily. Grammar is
more conservative, until it breaks down in Pidginisation, as
Anglo-Saxon & Norman French simultaneously lost almost all of their
synthetic structures about 1100 AD in fusing into Middle English. Now,
Magyar is moderately polysynthetic even now, so it has not undergone
Pidginisation. However Uralic and Altaic grammars are rather similar
for first principles.
LOOK how close Magyar Language is still to HUN Language still!!!
|
6
fish
kala
hal
-
-
Yes
Turkish = Balik
-----------
11
bull
büka
bika
buka, B
??
Turkish = boga
-----------
12
ox
üker
ökör
vögör, B
-
-
Turkish = öküz
-----------
14
cow
inke
tehén
-
-
-
Turkish = inek
----------
18
fox
vüla
róka
-
-
Turkish = tilki
-----------
19
camel
tüve
teve
Yes
-
-
Turkish = deve
-----------
22
rat
racsa
patkány
-
Yes
-
Turkish = siçan
-----------
23
monkey
majmun
majom
?
?
-
Turkish = maymun
------------
24
pig
tonzu
disznó
Yes, B
-
-
Turkish = domuz
-----------
25
horn(ed)
szoru
szarv(as)
-
-
Yes
Turkish = boru, boynuz
-----------
lark
bulbül
csalogány
!
-
-
Turkish = tarla kusu, saka
------------
29
snake
kila
kígyó
-
-
Turkish = yilan
------------
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Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 01:52
erci,
what is your point? explain please
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Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 01:53
nevermind,
i just realized you filled in the turkish words that were left blank. sorry about that
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Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 04:59
And this is supposed to prove what? Atleast we can from these words
establish, that the Uralic languages do NOT belong to the "Ural-Altaic"
theory.
Finnish "woman", "horse", "dog", "yellow", "seven", "eight", "nine",
"ten" and "eleven" do not have Uralic etymologies, so they should
be discarded from the comparison.
What does the word "way" mean? In the Finnish place there is a word "lyy"?
What does the "Yes" stand for in the Uralic etymologies? And
why is it compared with "Slavic etymology"?? Basically, on
the whole comparison you could have just left Uralic and Slavi
etymologies out.
Also, when writing Finnish could you please not use the Hungarian spelling? For example, one is "yksi", not "ükszi".
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:21
stone isnt "taţ", it is "kaya", similar with Uralic one.
I believe Uralic and Altaic people have a common ancestry in far past. Our languages are very similar, even after all those irrelevant languages influincind us differently. Not only vocabulary, but also sentence structure, usage of words and suffixes etc.
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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 12:31
Originally posted by minchickie
nevermind,
i just realized you filled in the turkish words that were left blank. sorry about that |
exactly
also to show how similar hun and Turkish
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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 04:51
6 fish kala hal - - Yes
Turkish = Balik
Uyghur Turkish= Belikh
-----------
11 bull büka bika buka, B ??
Turkish = boga
Uyghur Turkish= Bukha -----------
12 ox üker ökör vögör, B - -
Turkish = öküz
Uyghur Turkish= öküz
-----------
14 cow inke tehén - - -
Turkish = inek
Uyghur Turkish = inek
----------
18 fox vüla róka - -
Turkish = tilki
Uyghur Turkish = tülke
-----------
19 camel tüve teve Yes - -
Turkish = deve
Uyghur Turkish = töge
-----------
22 rat racsa patkány - Yes -
Turkish = siçan
Uyghur Turkish = csachkhan
-----------
23 monkey majmun majom ? ? -
Turkish = maymun
Uyghur Turkish = maymun
------------
24 pig tonzu disznó Yes, B - -
Turkish = domuz
Uyghur Turkish = Tonguz
-----------
25 horn(ed) szoru szarv(as) - - Yes
Turkish = boru, boynuz
Uyghur Turkish = möngüz
-----------
lark bulbül csalogány ! - -
Turkish = tarla kusu, saka
Uyghur Turkish = Bulbul
------------
29 snake kila kígyó - -
Turkish = yilan
Uyghur Turkish = yilan ------------
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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 11:30
lark
bulbül
csalogány
!
-
-
Turkish = tarla kusu, saka
Uyghur Turkish = Bulbul
|
yeah, we use bulbul as well.Uygur Turkish is sure very close to Turkish
indeed.I had no trouble communicate with an uyghur friend of mine.our
communication level was not perfect but it was good enough.when we
didn't understand what we were saying we simply have wrote down the
word and we realised it was still the same but pronounciation was
different
------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-May-2006 at 17:41
yes to me magyars and huns and türks coming from central asia destiny make us leave each other but we will meet a day absolutely we are bit of great TÜRK nation regards to everybody
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Posted By: Death
Date Posted: 17-May-2006 at 17:57
Minchichke could you tell me where you found Hun words,......i have been looking for a while.I would be most greatful. Köszönöm
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Posted By: Suevari
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 07:12
Heyy Minchickie.. you gave up on network 54 then :) I was Arabas Perna there if you remember..
Interesting article, especially the Hun words.
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Posted By: Chilbudios
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 08:11
The oldest Magyar texts I have knowledge of are from the second part of 12th century. What evidences are available for 11th century (I know there are several Latin documents, lists, charters from where someone can strip some Magyar words from their Latin transliterations, anything else though?)?
And also - like someone above me - I wonder what evidences are for Hunnic language?
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 08:16
suevari, whats you nation?I just wondered because you are saying "I'm Turkic"
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Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 18:13
Originally posted by Zagros
Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog. |
You're probably right...i think there's a similar form in Pashto...btw, KUCA is deminutive for dog in serbian...we also use the word KUCHE.
------------- "It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock
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Posted By: Uyghur Oghli
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 18:20
Originally posted by Socrates
Originally posted by Zagros
Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog. |
You're probably right...i think there's a similar form in
Pashto...btw, KUCA is deminutive for dog in serbian...we also use the
word KUCHE. |
In Uyghur Turkish, we use "Kuchuk" for a puppy.
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Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 05:32
Originally posted by Uyghur Oghli
Originally posted by Socrates
Originally posted by Zagros
Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog. |
You're probably right...i think there's a similar form in Pashto...btw, KUCA is deminutive for dog in serbian...we also use the word KUCHE. |
In Uyghur Turkish, we use "Kuchuk" for a puppy.
|
In Anatolian Turkish dog=köpek BUT we call a dog "kuchu kuchu" when we want to show sympathy to him..... Very strange....
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Posted By: Turkoglu
Date Posted: 21-May-2006 at 06:31
by the vay Dog = it
and very interensting topic.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-May-2006 at 15:18
minchickie i heard that at the hungury people are using attila for their names!!! may be it shows what your asking...
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Posted By: Raider
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 06:45
1) Hungarian language have two words for dog with equal meaning: kutya and eb. The word kutya originally meant small dog, puppy. Since the XVI. century the kutya became more common and the word eb became less frequent. There is a dictum: Egyik kutya, másik eb. = The one is kutya, the other is eb. (So the same.)
2)
Originally posted by ogan
minchickie i heard that at the hungury people are using attila for their names!!! may be it shows what your asking... |
It is true, but only from the enf of the XIX. century.
The Hungarian form of Attila's name is: Etele.
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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 24-May-2006 at 08:29
It is interesting, we also have two words in Uyghur, Kuchuk for small dog (puppy) and It for dog.
What is for female dog? we use Qanjuq ( Q sound is strong K, j is something like zh ).
A friend of mine who is studying in Hungary told me that the grammar of Hungarian is very similar to that of Uyghur, which he found it very easy to learn.
------------- Either make a history or become a history.
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Posted By: Death
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 21:45
Michi! Tell us where you found these Hun words.........im very interested in that, i bet all here are.
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Posted By: Suevari
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 07:56
Originally posted by OguzK
suevari, whats you nation?I just wondered because you are saying "I'm Turkic" |
Turkey is my nation.
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