Print Page | Close Window

Hun, Magyar, Turk , Finn words

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Linguistics
Forum Discription: Discuss linguistics: the study of languages
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4983
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 17:16
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Hun, Magyar, Turk , Finn words
Posted By: minchickie
Subject: Hun, Magyar, Turk , Finn words
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 18:30

 

English

Hun
Magyar, 2004
Magyar, XI-XII c.
Vogul
Finnish
Turkish (Ott.)

arrow
neil
nyíl
?
nyál
nuoli
oguz?

hand
kezi
kéz
kéz
kát
käszi
?

head
phe
fej
fej
pängk
pää
bas

woman
inü



nainen
karď

horse



luv
hevonen
at

dog
kutha
kutya
?
kútyuv
?
köpek

stone
kevi


kääv
kivi
tas

way
utu
út
utu
lyoh

jol

three
hurum
három
harmu
hurum
kolme
ücs

yellow
sarakh
sárga
sárig
kaszm
keltainen
szarď
___________________________________

Number
Hun
Magyar
Vogul
Finnish
Turkish (Ott.)

1
idzsi
egy
akv(a)
ükszi
bir

2
keltü
két/kettô
kit(igh)
kakszi
iki

3
khormu
három
húrum
kolme
ücs

4
nijdzsi
négy
nyila
neljä
dört

5
hütü
öt
at
víszi
bes

6
hotu
hat
hót
kúszi
altď

7
jeti
hét
szát
szeitszemän
jedi

8
loncsoj
nyolc
nyollov
kahdekszan
sekiz

9
klüntiz
kilenc
óntöllov
ühdekszän
doguz

10
tíz
tíz
lov
kümmenen
on

11
tiz hen idzsi
tizenegy
akwhujplov
ükszitoiszta
on bir



Number
Animal
Hun
Magyar
Turk. etym.
Slavic etym.
Uralic etym.

2
horse


ulagh?
-
Yes

3
dog
kutha
kutya
köpek??
-
Yes

6
fish
kala
hal
-
-
Yes

8
eagle
sas
sas
?
-
?

9
falcon
hülie
ölyv
Yes, B
-
-

10
raven
khulla
holló
-
-
Yes

11
bull
büka
bika
buka, B
??
-

12
ox
üker
ökör
vögör, B
-
-

14
cow
inke
tehén
-
-
-

16
bear
hevi
medve
-
Yes
-

17
wolf
jugra
farkas
-
-
-

18
fox
vüla
róka
-
-
Yes

19
camel
tüve
teve
Yes
-
-

20
ewe
howi
juh
-
-
??

21
mouse
csucsa
egér
-
-
Yes

22
rat
racsa
patkány
-
Yes
-

23
monkey
majmun
majom
?
?
-

24
pig
tonzu
disznó
Yes, B
-
-

25
horn(ed)
szoru
szarv(as)
-
-
Yes

27
frog
beka
béka
Yes, B
-
-

28
lark
bulbül
csalogány
!
-
-

29
snake
kila
kígyó
-
-
Yes

30
lizard
klik
gyík
-
-
?

31
dragon
vom
sárkány
Yes, B
-
-


____________________________


Word
Hun 500 AD
Magyar 1055
Magyar 2004

1
hand
kezi
kezi?
kéz

2
heart
szerti
?
szív

3
blood
veri
veri?
vér

4
red
verisi
?
véres

5
water
vezi
?
víz

6
way
utu
utu
út

7
bow
viju
?
íj

8
arid
sziki
székü
szik-

____________________________


What are Magyar & Hungarian? Magyar is a language and an ethnic entity (facts & beliefs will come soon), Hungary is a state. If you meet a language called "Hungarian", it is very probably Magyar. Magyar language is surely not Indo-European, and has some kinship with Finnish & Estonian; the exact degree of this kinship is a matter of argumentation. That degree is just depending on some Armenian texts on which this study has been written, so wait to the end. However an almost unequivocal academic consensus does exist and that will be recapitiulated early in the main text.

The best story of the Uralic paradigm starts with a purely Uralic scenario up to the end of pre- (or proto-)Magyar times, and then applies heavy Turkish influence from Southeast in the middle of the first millenium AD. Finns were already too far to West and Ob Ugors too Northward. Then Magyars entered the Migration, and on horseback they traversed the space between the Ural River and the Carpathian Basin, while they adopted Turkish way of life and the words denoting its specific notions, plus a lot of fashion words too. Also, living in a confederation of tribes, some tribes of Turkish origin may have been incorporated.

However a diametrically opposite Turkish paradigm exists too, in which Magyars are not Turkized Ugors, but Ugrized Turks. Supporters of such a view are in utter minority amongst linguists, but not so small minority amongst anthropologists, and the idea is fairly acceptable for Turks.

Note that it is not easy to settle the question for ever. Namely, languages can be learnt; and words can be borrowed even more easily. Grammar is more conservative, until it breaks down in Pidginisation, as Anglo-Saxon & Norman French simultaneously lost almost all of their synthetic structures about 1100 AD in fusing into Middle English. Now, Magyar is moderately polysynthetic even now, so it has not undergone Pidginisation. However Uralic and Altaic grammars are rather similar for first principles.

 

LOOK how close Magyar Language is still to HUN Language still!!!



-------------



Replies:
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 19:02
Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog.

-------------


Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 20:18
Originally posted by minchickie


What are Magyar & Hungarian? Magyar is a language and an ethnic entity (facts & beliefs will come soon), Hungary is a state. If you meet a language called "Hungarian", it is very probably Magyar. Magyar language is surely not Indo-European, and has some kinship with Finnish & Estonian; the exact degree of this kinship is a matter of argumentation. That degree is just depending on some Armenian texts on which this study has been written, so wait to the end. However an almost unequivocal academic consensus does exist and that will be recapitiulated early in the main text.

The best story of the Uralic paradigm starts with a purely Uralic scenario up to the end of pre- (or proto-)Magyar times, and then applies heavy Turkish influence from Southeast in the middle of the first millenium AD. Finns were already too far to West and Ob Ugors too Northward. Then Magyars entered the Migration, and on horseback they traversed the space between the Ural River and the Carpathian Basin, while they adopted Turkish way of life and the words denoting its specific notions, plus a lot of fashion words too. Also, living in a confederation of tribes, some tribes of Turkish origin may have been incorporated.

However a diametrically opposite Turkish paradigm exists too, in which Magyars are not Turkized Ugors, but Ugrized Turks. Supporters of such a view are in utter minority amongst linguists, but not so small minority amongst anthropologists, and the idea is fairly acceptable for Turks.

Note that it is not easy to settle the question for ever. Namely, languages can be learnt; and words can be borrowed even more easily. Grammar is more conservative, until it breaks down in Pidginisation, as Anglo-Saxon & Norman French simultaneously lost almost all of their synthetic structures about 1100 AD in fusing into Middle English. Now, Magyar is moderately polysynthetic even now, so it has not undergone Pidginisation. However Uralic and Altaic grammars are rather similar for first principles.

 

LOOK how close Magyar Language is still to HUN Language still!!!



6
fish
kala
hal
-
-
Yes

Turkish = Balik

-----------

11
bull
büka
bika
buka, B
??

Turkish = boga

-----------

12
ox
üker
ökör
vögör, B
-
-

Turkish = öküz

-----------

14
cow
inke
tehén
-
-
-

Turkish = inek

----------

18
fox
vüla
róka
-
-

Turkish = tilki

-----------

19
camel
tüve
teve
Yes
-
-

Turkish = deve

-----------

22
rat
racsa
patkány
-
Yes
-

Turkish = siçan

-----------

23
monkey
majmun
majom
?
?
-

Turkish = maymun

------------

24
pig
tonzu
disznó
Yes, B
-
-

Turkish = domuz

-----------

25
horn(ed)
szoru
szarv(as)
-
-
Yes

Turkish = boru, boynuz

-----------

lark
bulbül
csalogány
!
-
-

Turkish = tarla kusu, saka

------------

29
snake
kila
kígyó
-
-

Turkish = yilan

------------




Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 01:52

erci,

what is your point? explain please



-------------


Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 01:53

nevermind,

i just realized you filled in the turkish words that were left blank.  sorry about that



-------------


Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 04:59

And this is supposed to prove what? Atleast we can from these words establish, that the Uralic languages do NOT belong to the "Ural-Altaic" theory.

Finnish "woman", "horse", "dog", "yellow", "seven", "eight", "nine", "ten" and "eleven" do not have Uralic etymologies, so they should be discarded from the comparison.

What does the word "way" mean? In the Finnish place there is a word "lyy"?

What does the "Yes" stand for in the Uralic etymologies? And why is it compared with "Slavic etymology"?? Basically, on the whole comparison you could have just left Uralic and Slavi etymologies out.

Also, when writing Finnish could you please not use the Hungarian spelling? For example, one is "yksi", not "ükszi".



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 08:21

stone isnt "taţ", it is "kaya", similar with Uralic one.

I believe Uralic and Altaic people have a common ancestry in far past. Our languages are very similar, even after all those irrelevant languages influincind us differently. Not only vocabulary, but also sentence structure, usage of words and suffixes etc.



-------------


Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 12:31
Originally posted by minchickie

nevermind,

i just realized you filled in the turkish words that were left blank.  sorry about that



exactly

also to show how similar hun and Turkish


Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 04:51

 
6
fish
kala
hal
-
-
Yes

Turkish = Balik

Uyghur Turkish= Belikh

-----------

11
bull
büka
bika
buka, B
??

Turkish = boga

Uyghur Turkish= Bukha
-----------

12
ox
üker
ökör
vögör, B
-
-

Turkish = öküz

Uyghur Turkish= öküz

-----------

14
cow
inke
tehén
-
-
-

Turkish = inek

Uyghur Turkish = inek

----------

18
fox
vüla
róka
-
-

Turkish = tilki

Uyghur Turkish = tülke

-----------

19
camel
tüve
teve
Yes
-
-

Turkish = deve

Uyghur Turkish = töge

-----------

22
rat
racsa
patkány
-
Yes
-

Turkish = siçan

Uyghur Turkish = csachkhan

-----------

23
monkey
majmun
majom
?
?
-

Turkish = maymun

Uyghur Turkish = maymun

------------

24
pig
tonzu
disznó
Yes, B
-
-

Turkish = domuz

Uyghur Turkish = Tonguz

-----------

25
horn(ed)
szoru
szarv(as)
-
-
Yes

Turkish = boru, boynuz

Uyghur Turkish = möngüz


-----------

lark
bulbül
csalogány
!
-
-

Turkish = tarla kusu, saka

Uyghur Turkish = Bulbul

------------

29
snake
kila
kígyó
-
-

Turkish = yilan

Uyghur Turkish = yilan
------------

 



Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 11:30
lark
bulbül
csalogány
!
-
-

Turkish = tarla kusu, saka

Uyghur Turkish = Bulbul

 

yeah, we use bulbul as well.Uygur Turkish is sure very close to Turkish indeed.I had no trouble communicate with an uyghur friend of mine.our communication level was not perfect but it was good enough.when we didn't understand what we were saying we simply have wrote down the word and we realised it was still the same but pronounciation was different


-------------
"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-May-2006 at 17:41
 yes  to me magyars and huns and türks coming from central asia destiny make us leave each other but we will meet a day absolutely we are bit of great TÜRK nation  regards to everybody

-------------


Posted By: Death
Date Posted: 17-May-2006 at 17:57
Minchichke could you tell me where you found Hun words,......i have been looking for a while.I would be most greatful.
Köszönöm


Posted By: Suevari
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 07:12
Heyy Minchickie.. you gave up on network 54 then :) I was Arabas Perna there if you remember..

Interesting article, especially the Hun words.


-------------


Posted By: Chilbudios
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 08:11
The oldest Magyar texts I have knowledge of are from the second part of 12th century. What evidences are available for 11th century (I know there are several Latin documents, lists, charters from where someone can strip some Magyar words from their Latin transliterations, anything else though?)?
And also - like someone above me - I wonder what evidences are for Hunnic language?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 08:16

suevari, whats you nation?I just wondered because you are saying "I'm Turkic"



-------------


Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 18:13
Originally posted by Zagros

Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog.
You're probably right...i think there's a similar form in Pashto...btw, KUCA is deminutive for dog in serbian...we also use the word KUCHE.


-------------
"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
               Bob Rock


Posted By: Uyghur Oghli
Date Posted: 18-May-2006 at 18:20
Originally posted by Socrates

Originally posted by Zagros

Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog.
You're probably right...i think there's a similar form in Pashto...btw, KUCA is deminutive for dog in serbian...we also use the word KUCHE.


In Uyghur Turkish, we use "Kuchuk" for a puppy.



Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 05:32
Originally posted by Uyghur Oghli

Originally posted by Socrates

Originally posted by Zagros

Interesting, I believe Kutha is also the Punjabi for dog.
You're probably right...i think there's a similar form in Pashto...btw, KUCA is deminutive for dog in serbian...we also use the word KUCHE.


In Uyghur Turkish, we use "Kuchuk" for a puppy.

 
In Anatolian Turkish dog=köpek BUT we call a dog "kuchu kuchu" when we want to show sympathy to him..... Very strange....


Posted By: Turkoglu
Date Posted: 21-May-2006 at 06:31
by the vay Dog = it
and very interensting topic.


-------------



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-May-2006 at 15:18
minchickie i heard that at the hungury people are using attila for their names!!! may be it shows what your asking...


Posted By: Raider
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 06:45
1) Hungarian language have two words for dog with equal meaning: kutya and eb. The word kutya originally meant small dog, puppy. Since the XVI. century the kutya became more common and the word eb became less frequent. There is a dictum: Egyik kutya, másik eb. = The one is kutya, the other is eb. (So the same.)
 
 
2)
Originally posted by ogan

minchickie i heard that at the hungury people are using attila for their names!!! may be it shows what your asking...
It is true, but only from the enf of the XIX. century.
 
The Hungarian form of Attila's name is: Etele.


Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 24-May-2006 at 08:29
 
It is interesting, we also have two words in Uyghur, Kuchuk for small dog (puppy) and It for dog. 
 
What is for female dog? we use Qanjuq ( Q sound is strong K, j is something like zh ).  
 
A friend of mine who is studying in Hungary told me that the grammar of Hungarian is very similar to that of Uyghur, which he found it very easy to learn.
 
 
 
 


-------------
Either make a history or become a history.


Posted By: Death
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 21:45
Michi! Tell us where you found these Hun words.........im very interested in that, i bet all here are.


Posted By: Suevari
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 07:56
Originally posted by OguzK

suevari, whats you nation?I just wondered because you are saying "I'm Turkic"


Turkey is my nation.


-------------



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com