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The World of Huns

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4830
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 19:47
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Topic: The World of Huns
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Subject: The World of Huns
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 15:18
The term "Hun" has been abused by being ambigously used to refer to many different groups. But doing so, I think, has created a unique organization of nomads. Here's an overview of some groups that have been described as Huns:

Xiong Nu
The great Xiong Nu empire existed north of China and has obscure origins. According to the Chinese Historian Sima Qian, the Xiong Nu came from a decendent of a Xia king. Of coruse, there is no evidence to support this linkage to a Chinese dynasty line. What is clear is that the great power of the Xiong Nu empire has attracted a lot of "linkage theories" of both its origins and its ends. The Xiong Nu formed into an empire during the reign of Modu in 209 BC, and subsequently subjegated or drove out neighboring nomads. For the next several centuries, the Xiong nu had complicated relations of war and tributes with the Han dynasty. In the 120s BC, Xiong nu power was weakened by sucessive campaigns from the Han. By 60 BC, the empire fragmented into civil war, with fragments at entering tributary relations with the Han. 46 AD marked the beginniing of rapidly declined. From then on, the Xiong nu slowly drifted away from history. Other nomadic groups such as the Wu huan and Ding Ling tribes seized territories and the steppes returned into chaos. The "Empire of the Steppes" was passed on to the Xian bei, then to the Juan Juan, and then to Turkic tribes. How the Xiong Nu were related to these tribes is difficult to say.

European Huns
In 370, nomads arrived nroth of the Black Sea. These nomads were given the name "Huns" by Greco-Roman historians. One theory for the origin of these people is that in 160, Fragments of the Xiong Nu settle around the Ural sea for 200 years, before moving west. However, association of the Xiong Nu and the Huns is now more of a "classic speculation" without enough evidence. Most realistically, the Huns in Europe could've contained some fragments of the Xiong Nu, but also fragments of other steppe groups, along with more local european barbarians. In any case, the Huns moved and destroyed the cultures north of the Pontus including the Sarmatians and the Goths. The Goths then migrated into the Eastern Roman empire, who after rebelling against the Empire, defeated the Romans at Adrianople. The Hun gradually expanded their realms incorporating many local barbarian groups. The height of the empire marked the Reign of Attila, who made repeated invasion against the Romans. Although the Huns did not penetrate very deeply compared to other barbarians, they were instrumental in causing migrations of other barbarians against Rome. After Attila died, the empire rapidly fell apart. Germanic tribes rebelled and defeated Attila's sons, forcing whatever was of the Huns to move back into the steppes, where they faced away.

Red Huns (Chionites)
In 350, the Chionites came to power in Sogdia and invaded the Sassanid Empire of Persia. Latin sources relate them to "Huns" but ethnical relations is far beyond what names can say. Most probable, they were driven out of the Mongolian Steppes by the Juan Juan. (this pattern of groups migrating away from strong nomadic empires is a constant theme in history) The Chionites declined with the Invasion of the White Huns. The last record of Chionites was in 558 AD, when their last remnant was destroyed by the Western Turks.

White Huns (Hepthalites/Ephalites)
The crossroads, north of India, where the empires of Persia, the Steppes, and China meet has often produced the strangest empires. Examples include the Indo-Bactrian empire and the Indo-Greek Empire. In 466, the White Huns established themselves as the next ruler of this region after being driven out of Mongolia by the Juan Juan. Unlike Attila's huns, the White huns were described as being light skinned, hence their name. If we are to accept that they were an Iranian group, this would be a good example of the ambiguous use of the term "Hun." In 484, the White Huns invaded the Sassanid Empire and captured their emperor. Empire building soon followed, as they extended their domain toward the Indian ocean. However, the rise of the Turks and the revival of Persian power brought an end to the Empire when their king wsa killed in battle in c. 560. Minor Hepthalite Kingdoms remained in India, but this effectively marked the end of the "Hunnic Era," if such a term can be used.


Xiong Nu:


Huns:


White Huns:






Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 11:39

"The Xiong Nu (possibly meaning "Subjects of Peoples"), also known as the Asiatic Huns, were one of the earliest known nomadic peoples that lived in Central Asia. They're thought to have descended from the Xien Yun, a Proto-Turkic people. However, the Xiong Nu were not a pure ethnic group, and they included various Turkic, Tungusic and Indo-European peoples.

The foundation of the Xiong Nu Empire is unknown, but the earliest Chinese records about them date back to 318 BC, when a Xiong Nu army had defeated a Zhou army at the Battle of Northern Xansi and signed a peace treaty.

Since China at that time was divided between many warring states like Qin, Zhao, Yan, Qi, Lu, Wei, Han and Chu, the Xiong Nu easily raided Northern China throughout 4th century BC. Their raides reached it's zenith during 3rd century BC, when the Qin emperor Qin Shi Huangdi finally decided to build a Great Wall to stop those raids (the Great Wall was already in existence as small independent fortifications dating back to the Warring States Period; but Qin Shi Huangdi united these to form a single body). China was not the only country that suffered from Xiong Nu raids; other parts of Central Asia like Chungaria and Altais were also targets of the Xiong Nu."

by Ihsan

BTW, their origins arent any related with the Chinese, ancient Chinese historians have always claimed theories of origins for foreign nations that arent any related with Chinese, and there was no evidence to support common origins.



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Posted By: Belisarius
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 23:08
I notice that the territory of the White Huns is the same area where the Kushans ruled. Are these the same people or did they conquer this land together?

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Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 23:28
The White Huns essentially replaced the Kushans. The White Hun empire was built about 300 years aftter the Kushan empire was first built.

The Kushans (and Indian term) were a Branch of the Yue Zhi (a chines term), which were a branch of the Tocharians, which were an Iranian people. When the Kushans' realm were destroyed by the Xiong Nu, they moved west. The next "big" steppe empire was the Xian Bei, and after that, the Juan Juan. Like what happened earlier, the Juan Juan destroyed the realms of the Helphalites (White Huns), and they migrated.

It is possible that the White Huns were related to the Kushans, but there is not enough evidence to draw any conclusions (I think).


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Posted By: oodog
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 22:40

About the relation between Xiongnu and Huns, there are plenty of arguments in this link:

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=160 5 - http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=160 5



Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 22:54
I think you might have pasted the wrong link. 

My understanding is that linkage between various nomad groups in general have fallen more and more out of favor, since increasing scrutiny has allowed more distinctions to be made. Another traditional linkage is between the Juan Juan and the Avars.

EDIT: ok I actually quoted the first statement there from Wikipedia. Personally, I don't think the connection is very strong, but we can have a discussion about it here if you like.


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Posted By: Hushyar
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 00:01
Just for reminding , Tocharian language is IE but not Iranic.(they may be belonged to Centum group although in the texts that have remained from them there is no word for hundred)


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 11:25
It is interesting to know that near the city of Birjand in the south east of Khorasan, there is a great relief which is called Lakh Mazar, this relief shows the marriage ceremony between Kavad, the refugee king of Sassanid Persia and the daughter of the Hephthalite king Xshnuvaz, after this marriage, Hephthalites helped Kavad to regain his throne!

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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 17:49

I think its Bellews (or was it Raverty?) book about the History of Central Asia,  it goes into detail the relationship between the Sassanids and the Hephtalites, and their wars, defeats, betrayals, etc.

 



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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak


Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 18:17

The Hephtalites and their Relationship with the Turkish Khalaj, and the Khalji

GHILJAY/GHILZAI/KHALJI/KHILJI/KHALAJ:

A large and widespread Afghan tribe, who extend from Kalat-i-Ghilzai on the S. to the Kabul river on the N., and from the Gul Koh range on the W. to the Indian border on the E., in many places overflowing these boundaries. The popular theory of the origin of the Ghilzais traces them to the Turkish tribe of Kilji, once occupying districts bordering the upper course of the Syr Darya (Jaxartes), and affirms that they were brought into Afghanistan by the Turk Sabuktagin in the 10th century. However that Inay be, the Ghilzai clans now rank collectively as second to none in strength of military and commercial enterprise. They are a fine, manly race of people, and it is from some of their most influential clans (Suliman Khel, Nasir Khel, Kharotis, &c.) that the main body of povindah merchants is derived.

- 1911 Encyclopedia

Khalaj were identified by the Russian scholar Barthold as two of the 24 tribes of the Ghuzz Turks.  But new intriguing evidence shows that the Khalaj may actually have been there longer than before.  Evidence is now leaning that they may have been an indigenous, Iranian pagan tribe that was later identified with Turks.

Modern scholars claim the Hephtalites were a Polyandrous, Sun-worshipping people before the emergence of the Ghozz Turks.  


Hephtalite Empire/Sphere of Dominance

The Afghan Folktale of Bibi Mato

The story proceeds: Qais Alias Abdur Rashid Alias Pehtan had three sons named Sarban, Batan and Ghurghust. Most of the present-day Afghan tribes claim descent from these three persons. Batan had a daughter named Bibi Matto. She fell in love with Hussain Shah, a prince of Turkish origin, and their intimacy reached a stage where her pregnancy could not be concealed. Marriage was the only course open, but the offspring, a boy, was given the name of Ghilzai, meaning in the Afghan language a son 'born of theft'. Bibi Matto's next son was Ibrahim who, because of his intelligence and wisdom, was addressed by Qais as Loi-dey (Lodi) i. e., Ibrahim is great.

The only problem with this folktale, is that "Loi Dey" in Pashto doesn't mean he is great, actually it just means he is "big."  The correct Pashto would be "Ibrahim Mashr Dey"

Folktale Clues

Using the folktale,  there are some clear indications from the story that do correlate with history.  One being the emergence of another empire stepping on the foot of the Afghan frontier and a story of a foreign presence that is felt in Afghanistan, and that intermarriage did occur, either by force, or to form new alliances.

In this context one might see the Ghilzais as being the amalgamation of a Turkish tribe with Afghans.  But if the Khalaj were Turks, where did they come from?

This is the question that needs some clarification.  Could the Khalaj be from a even further past, during the time of the Hephtalites?   It would be hard to prove considering the Hephtalites are still one of the most intriguing people to be studied by scholars.  A few ancient manuscripts have been found, along with a bust, and an inscription that identifies the Hephtalites:


Modern scholars such as Enoki describe the White Huns/Hephtalites as an Iranian tribe that originated from the Hindu Kush mountains.

"....Ephthalite origins may be determined by considering where they were not, as well as by where their conquests drove their enemies. They were not previously north of the Tien Shan, thus they did not stem from that region. They drove the Kidarites out of Balkh to the west, thus they came originally from the east. By such reasoning, the Ephthalites are thought to have originated at Hsi-mo-ta-lo (southwest of Badakhshan and near the Hindu Kush), which tantalizingly, stands for Himtala, "snow plain", which may be the Sanskritized form of Hephthal."

As their empire shows, the central focal spot of their empire is the Hindu Kush.  Regardless of their origins, by the end of the 6th century AD, there emerges a group of tribes with an Iranian background and language, but not fire worshippers, rather sun worshippers, made up of successive hordes overlaid at the last by a Hunnish conquest, and with a centre of historical attraction towards the Gandhara Valley.

Arabic/Persian Sources

Arabic/Persian name for the Hephtalites/Ephtalites was Haytal or Hayatila, and they are so mentioned by Firdausi in his Shahnameh.  In his commentary on the Hudud al Alam, the late Russian Professor Minorsky quotes two early passages from Arab chroniclers that link the Khalaj with the Hayatilas aka Ephtalites.

A)  From the Mafatih al Ulum of Al-Khwarezmi written in 975 AD (H. 365): The Hayatila are a tribe of men who had enjoyed grandeur and possessed the country of Tukharistan; the Turks called Khalukh, or Khalaj, are their descendants.

B)  From the Kitab al Masalik of Istakhri, written in 933 AD (H. 321): The Khalaj are a kind of Turks who in the days of old came to the country between Hind and the districts of Sijistan (Sakastan/Sistan) behind Ghor.  They are catle-breeders of Turkish apperance, dress, language.

Takharistan is what is now north-eastern Afghansitan, around Baghlan.  Takharistan was actually one of the major strongholds of the Hephtalites during their dominant period in history, so it correlates well to the 2 passages above.   Both passages take the Khalaj back some five centuries before the Ghuzz migrations, making their ancestors the White Huns.

 

The Kochi

Afghanistan has a substantial number of nomadic people,often estimated at 10 percent of the country's total population. They are primarily sheep raisers who live in tents andtravel seasonally in caravans with baggage animals (camels, horses and donkeys) that can move the people and house-hold goods long distances over fixed migration routes.

They are commonly known as "Kuchi", a term derived from the Persian kuch, to move or migrate. In eastern Afghanistan, kuchi is applied to all nomads who live in black goat hairtents (ghizhdi) and are seen as having a distinct culture, habitation and economy that sets them apart from the sedentary villagers whose lands they pass through. 

Although most Kuchis are engaged in pastoralism, poorer communities that lack animals use their mobility as seasonal grain harvesters and some other groups historically specialized in trade.  Approaching Kandahar in the south, Kuchis are also called powindahs (literally grazers).  

Kochi Child

In western and northern Afghanistan the term maldar (herdowner) replaces Kuchi and is applied to any group that that makes its living through flock keeping. This changing terminology reflects the less rigid boundary between nomads and sedentary peoples thatis the product of different ecological and cultural conditions in these regions. The term Kuchi is not applied to gypsy-like groups of itinerant artisans or entertainers (Jat,Jugi, Ghorbat, etc.) who typically employ white canvas tents (Ferdinand 1962, 1969:127-129).  While Kuchis are an identifiable occupational group, they do not share a single ethnicity or language. 

Although a largemajority of them are Ghilzai Pashtun, most Pashtuns are not nomadic and many groups of nomads in Afghanistan are not Pashtun. Even among Pashtun nomads there are clear dis-tinctions between the Ghilzai Pakhtun of eastern Afghani-stan and the Durrani Pashtun nomads of western and northern Afghanistan (often generically called Kandahari regard-less of location). They speak different dialects of Pashto, employ a distinctively different styles of black tent, and have different forms of labor allocation (Ferdinand 1969:146-7).

Recently links have been made between the rug patterns of Kuchis and that of the ancient Tocharians.  J. Barry O'Connel Jr is quoted as saying:

"This is one of 9 known examples in the world. These all apparently were bought in the market in Murkur Afghanistan, which is a major market for Pashtun Nomads often called Cutchis (Kuchis). Similar rugs were found in the Tarim Basin Archeological digs. Those were attributed to the Tocharians."



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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak


Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2005 at 04:10

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus

Other nomadic groups such as the Wu huan and Ding Ling tribes seized territories and the steppes returned into chaos. The "Empire of the Steppes" was passed on to the Xian bei, then to the Juan Juan, and then to Turkic tribes. How the Xiong Nu were related to these tribes is difficult to say.


Several chinese historical books such as "Hanshu" recorded as "Dinling is   the nephew of Xiongnu" to discribe the relationship between them. "Dingling" is a different form of pronunciation of Tura in Chinese such as Di, Dili, chile, Tiele etc.   


 



Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 19:08

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus

The White Huns essentially replaced the Kushans. The White Hun empire was built about 300 years aftter the Kushan empire was first built.

no, the Kushans were conquered by the Chionites, not Epthalites as so often stated, and where in turn conquered by the Sassanians who established their own protectorate under a "Kushanshah". depictions on coins have shown that the "satrap" of the Kushanshar has remained the same outfit as his Kushan predecessors.

The Kushans (and Indian term) were a Branch of the Yue Zhi (a chines term), which were a branch of the Tocharians, which were an Iranian people.

no, Tocharians ARE Yuezhi and they were Indoeuropean but not Indoiranian. the word Kushan is another story, after the conquest of the Hellenistic areas in todays Afghanistan/Pakistan the Tocharians established 5 kingdoms, of which one eventually conquered the other 4, this kingdom was called Kushan and eventually gave name to the subsequent empire.


It is possible that the White Huns were related to the Kushans, but there is not enough evidence to draw any conclusions (I think).

unlikely, though the Chionites also had misformed skulls just like the Black Huns in Europe, so we can assume there was a relation between the Black Huns and red Huns (Chionites), however i don't know if Ephtalites or even Xiongnu had the fashion of deforming their skulls too.

 

EDIT

addition to quote 2: the Yuezhi did not conquer Afghanistan directly from the Hellens but from the Sakae whose reign their was only short lived however.



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Posted By: Suevari
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 16:59
Very interesting.

Hun and other pre-islamic history should be taught more in Turkish and Turkic schools rather than focusing on [in Turkey's case] the Ottomans and Seljuks.


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Posted By: BigL
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 17:57
3 Questions
 
1.Did attilas huns help armenia fight the Sassanids
2.Did sassanids defeat hephalites  in 427ad
3.did sassanids defeat the gokturks


Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 02:17
Originally posted by Temujin

unlikely, though the Chionites also had misformed skulls just like the Black Huns in Europe, so we can assume there was a relation between the Black Huns and red Huns (Chionites), however i don't know if Ephtalites or even Xiongnu had the fashion of deforming their skulls too.
 
 
Mabey it was a late fashion trend.LOL


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 04:23
Originally posted by Belisarius

I notice that the territory of the White Huns is the same area where the Kushans ruled. Are these the same people or did they conquer this land together?
 
Hi Belisarius,
 
There is a big confusion among the historian that white huns and Kushans (Yu-he-chee) was the same tribe. That was not true.
 
Kushans were an Indian Aryan tribe originated from the famous ancient Kshatriya tribe Gurjar or Gujjar. 
 
Gurjars have a clan named kushan till date. These kushans are found in northwestern India and Pakistan.
 
While white Huns (epthallites) were Barbaric invaders from mid Asian origin. They snatched the particular areas from Kushans. Later these white huns were converted to hinduism and were designated as kshatriyas.
 
 
 
50% of them absorbed into Gurjars (Ancient Kshatriya race)
There are around 6,00,000 Gurjars with the surname "Hun" in  western uttar Pradesh.
 
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 10:09
Yue-chi (actually the correct pronunciation of the word in Chinese is Rou-zhi, as the both characters have dual pronunciation) are Toharians, who lived around East of Uyghur region. They were Indo-European, but not Indo-iranian. They were defeated by Huns, and moved to the west of Uyghur region, and present day Afghanistan, and collected the local tribes and built Kushan empire. I have never read any where that they were originated in some place of India. Han traveller Zhangqian recorded that their custom was similar to that of the Huns.
 


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Either make a history or become a history.


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 10:08
Originally posted by barbar

Yue-chi (actually the correct pronunciation of the word in Chinese is Rou-zhi, as the both characters have dual pronunciation) are Toharians, who lived around East of Uyghur region. They were Indo-European, but not Indo-iranian. They were defeated by Huns, and moved to the west of Uyghur region, and present day Afghanistan, and collected the local tribes and built Kushan empire. I have never read any where that they were originated in some place of India. Han traveller Zhangqian recorded that their custom was similar to that of the Huns.
 
 
Yeah Then what is the explanation of these two people Kushans and Huns under Gurjar Community.
 
And Most important: Kushan Gurjars Consider Kanishka(Most successfull kushan Ruler) as the man from their clan and Hun Gurjars consider Tourman (The Famous Hun Ruler) as their ancestor.
 
Please throw some light.
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2006 at 12:42

This is very interesting and informative.

Toharians and Huns were two different groups, although they had similar costums, as they were both nomads. The fact is they both came from Central Asia. Kushans were related to Toharians, while Eftalites (white huns) related to Huns.

Your information about the present two groups among Gujars, is really very important evidence for the relationship between Huns and White Huns, as some revisionists always try to deny this. It's amazing that the people still remember their great leader Tuman, who lived more than two thousands years ago.  
 


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Either make a history or become a history.


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 03:23
Hi All....
 
The Gujars are described in modern history books as descendants of Huns. The theory is that Hun tribes used to keep on moving but their base was in the country near Bahre Khijar (Black sea). From here they went to Europe and Central Asia. Their main occupation was grazing cattle and sheep. They used to call themselves Khujar. Khujar got converted to Gurjar.

Although Huns were shepherds,they were brave warriors. They were from pure Aryan stock they invaded India in about 400 AD.

When defeated and driven out by king YASHODHARAMAN they concealed themselves in the mountains. A large number settled down in these countries.

Apart from the Gurjar clan Hun there are many other clans namd after Hun kings:
 
Basically the Gurjar/Gujjar Gotras are divided into three groups. One group is after the name of Hun Commanders:
 
Meharkul
 
Torman
 
Jabila
 
Chhabri
 
Chiche
 
 
All These clans are quite prominent among Gurjars and found in almost every Gurjar settlements.
 
The town name Jabalpur(named after Jabila) is still thickly populated with Gurjars.........
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: Scytho-Sarmatian
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 09:55
Ashokharsana-
The information you are sharing is really fascinating.  I didn't realize that the Hun legacy still lives on to this day in India.  That is, I had no idea that there is still this consciousness of the Huns as part of the folklore.  I am wondering if the theory that you mentioned about the Huns being based near the Black Sea and branching out into Europe and Central Asia is part of that local Indian tradition, or is it something put forth by strictly by professional historians?


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 09:41
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian

Ashokharsana-
The information you are sharing is really fascinating.  I didn't realize that the Hun legacy still lives on to this day in India.  That is, I had no idea that there is still this consciousness of the Huns as part of the folklore.  I am wondering if the theory that you mentioned about the Huns being based near the Black Sea and branching out into Europe and Central Asia is part of that local Indian tradition, or is it something put forth by strictly by professional historians?
 
Hey Bro,
 
What I have posted is 100% factual and authenticated by many world class historians.
 
Other opinions
After intense research work The historians have proved that Kushans were purely Aryan by origin, And same were the Huns.
 
In Ancient Indian epics, The word Hun was used for barbaric people.
Today also In Hindi or Urdu Hun means an uncivilized person.
 
 
The difference in opinion might be regarding their origin.
 
Some said they originated in area between Black sea and Caspian Sea
 
According to Indian Scholars Aryan was the word used for Iranian Invaders. But in Famous Epic Mahabharta (3100 BC), The rulers or kings were called Arya Putra or Son of Arya.
 
This was also solved later by stating that scythia had been a very vast country involving modern Azerbeja, Armenia & Georgia,  etc. while others say that they originated in Scythia.
 
Very very confusing but every historian has his own facts and researches after their claims.
 
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 09:59


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars


Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:31
Give us dates friend.  Huns ruled from Japan sea to Caspian sea, however their rulers were in Altai.  This was after 200BC. Before According to Chinese chronicles, they were driven from the north of present day China by Chin. The greatwall then was built.
 
As for their pure Aryanity (if this term can be used), you need to enlighten us more with solid resourcecs.
 
 
 
 


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Either make a history or become a history.


Posted By: ashokharsana
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 11:55
Originally posted by barbar

Give us dates friend.  Huns ruled from Japan sea to Caspian sea, however their rulers were in Altai.  This was after 200BC. Before According to Chinese chronicles, they were driven from the north of present day China by Chin. The greatwall then was built.
 
As for their pure Aryanity (if this term can be used), you need to enlighten us more with solid resourcecs.
 
Hey Brother,
 
The Theory of Aryan Invasion is a very controvercial topic in india. Every second historian has his own statements and proofs.  I am also working on it these days.. Soon I'll be here with lot more authentic knowlidge.
 
One more thing:
 
There is a confusion that Kushans were called Yuechi.
 
The Chinese term "Yuechi" was for Gujars and not for kushans. You can apply any available phonetic or linguistic rule to it. It is much closer to Gujars than to Kushans.
 
Regards
 
Ashok Harsana


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The Real Ranas, The Real Emperors of India. http://ashokharsana.proboards107.com/index.cgi?board=gurjars



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