I disagree (btw, welcome to AE).

The Mongols didn't turn into the Yuan Dynasty in China before Chinggis Kha'an's grandson Khubilai's time, so Chinggis Kha'an wasn't a Zhongguoren. Besides, he didn't have anything cultural, religious or political things to do with China, he was non-Chinese all throughout his life.

But Chinggis Kha'an's sons and grandsons did

LoL, this is just another episode of Alexander of Makedon vs Alexander of Greece...

besides, Ihsan is right, it was Qubilai who's the first Mongol Emperor of China, not Chinggis, there's no question about that....

Armenians have never glorified any Pasha as their hero. Especially not someone as repulsive and oppresive as Talat, he carried out the ethnic cleansing of Armenians...if anything, he is an enemy.

I guess as a "khalkha friend" I'll have to respond... You're wife's not mongol. Period. 

yes genious, that was my point.

Tobodai, my apologies, i misunderstood your post.

And its GENIUS, not GENIOUS, you genius .

1. Dynasties Jin and Sung

2. Yes

3. No, many jurchens and kitans served Jin.

4. That of Jin and Sung.

5. No, none of them are chinese, except "dalinese". What's dalinese?

Alexander the Great is a hero of the western world. The Western world loves the Roman Empire, the same empire that pretty much brought upon the cultural genocide of all native European beliefs. And right now, the descendants of those Druids and shamans and barbarians and berserkers learn in their textbooks how awesome the Romans were in conquoring their people. If they can do that, then Ghengis Khan can be a hero to modern China.

Now, Ghengis Khan, he took after Chinese culture. His descendants conquored the known world, and of all those cultures, they took after China. They respected the greatness of China and so themselves became ingrained into the culture of China.

LOL

     it does sound like Philip of Macedon and Greece, uh-oh

  I would not call Tobodai a genius, he has a tested IQ of 84

        sorry clive but i find your argument extremely flawed...

you said the Song spoke a language other than Mandarin so the Song cannot be considered as China? and none of the others, be it, khitai, jin, xixia, or liao spoke mandarin so they can't be China as well? now that's just extremely silly.

       how do you suppose mandarin came along? you think because mandarin's the official language of china today, and everything else is not chinese right?

       just like some ignorant people from mainland china i meet from time to time...they'd ask me the same question: do you speak cantonese or chinese?  HAHA..how smart

       national borders part.  what if the japanese were successful in swallowing up a large chunk of chinese territory in WW2? and the china it might've been is much smaller and don't resembe the borders of Yuan any more?

      argh i've just finished work..argue with you another time.....i can't even think straight, seriously.

First, even if what you wrote were true they don't present any plausible reason to make CK a chinese national hero. But even in these points you're absolutely wrong.

1. China existed very well in the 13th century. The dynasties Jin and Sung both cultivated chinese culture and traditions, the biggest portions of the population were chinese. Although the jurchens and kitans who served Jin should be qualified as chinese, because the dynasty itself represented itself chinese, they still weren't completely so. Jurchens kept on nomadicizing in Manchjuria after the fall of Jin and kitans tried to revive their state Liao, apart from China or mongols, but failed and were integrated into mongols. Xixia had nothing chinese about it. Kara Kitai was a buddhist - muslim state built by mongol-speaking nomadic kitans, what have the chinese to do with that? Tibet is even today not fully chinese, 50 years after the military occupation.

2. The so called unique languages were in fact chinese.

3. "True extent" of PRC's borders is irrelevant to this matter.

4. CK's state included the territories of today's Mongolia proper, Xinjiang and Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan. PRC's got nothing to do with anything.

5. No one is in position to speak about CK's true intentions. Jin was left in peace for some time due to the campaign in the west.

You don't seem to know anything about CK or mongols' history. So get back to it when you put some knowledge in your head. Distorting well known facts might please PRC but it gives others less reasons to respect you.

CK never took any chinese culture. Only the bloody usurper Kubilai tried to some extent at sinification but got on his head decades of revolting from all other mongols, and even his descendants got kicked out of China and had no problem what so ever to become nomads again.

The european barbarians not being able to withstand romanization is their problem, should've become buddhists.

whoah, Imperialism galore!!

OK I thought of a great example to refute the claim that Chinggis is a Chinese hero.  Just take a different nation and but the rouglhy same story on them!  For instance using this logic: Cecil Rhodes in the hero of ZImbabwe, for even though he destroyed large amounts of their people, he still ocnquered them and is culturaly relevant because white people live in Zimbabwe.

Or: There are Hisapnics in America, Pancho VIlla once invaded Texas, he was Hispanic, therefore hes an American hero!

See, it doesnt really make sense

You just don't know anything do you. Harchins and horchins don't even speak mongolian anymore. We are equally fluent in classical script. Both the cyrillic and classical scripts are egually important as cultural heritage for mongolian language. But of course classical script is our own and we hold it in better esteem. If you take a mongolian bank note, you won't see a single cyrillic letter, as an example. If your wife is really inner mongolian you should've known that chahars are lately largely adopting khalkha speech, as it's more convenient and modern. And to your information, there's no MPR anymore. And the fact that many mongols are living under PRC rule and have to put up with b-s such as you're bringing up is historically unfair. Now, what does all this have to do with CK? You could've been more coherent in distorting the facts hehe.

Oh, and this also. Yelui Chutsai was a kidanian, served mongols and helped a lot in subduing the Jin, I don't even think he was that much sinified. There were uigurs, tatars and people of all sorts working as bureaucrats for the empire. Would be weird if you could turn into a chinese by employing a kidanian. For all that matters, let's just declare Kubilai was a catholic and admirer of the venician culture. As for Chang Chun, he was no exception. CK employed lots of muslims for himself, such as Mahmud Yalvach, one of his best friends was the shaman Kokochu. Kidanians were buddhist and reportedly there were even some nestorians around at the time. So he could become a muslim, a shamanist, a buddhist and a christian just because he held contacts with them or what? In any case, this is my last reply to your posts, I feel myself like Tom Cruise in rain man.

Ahh maaan, you have to turn this into talks about modern mongols? What does any of this PRC propagandaistic b-s have to do with CK? What Ochirbat said was very correct, one of CK's lineages unified China, others unified kypchaks, russians, persians, you name it. But he himself unified mongols. Unifying china was just a fatcual slavery of the han-chinese anyway, if that's so glorious why don't you invite Mr. Bush over to do the same? He'll manage it with Taiwan and Siberia and all the rest no?

1. The number of mongols living in PRC is irrelevant. Half of them are completely sinified anyway, they just register as a minority for the benefits.

2. What teachers? What real mongol language? You've been smoking marijuana or something? The cultural cooperation that's going on between us concerns only us, not you.

3. 300 000 is the number of annual visits from Mongolia to PRC. You think any mongolian really would wanna go work in China? On the contrary, thousands of inner mongolians make their living by translating for visitors from Mongolia. Anywhere in UB or on the millenium road, nowadays you see k's of chinese working for dirt cheap wages for mongolian construction companies. As for China being the largest trade partner, so is it for Australia, so what? Who would be stupid enough not to wanna benefit from a booming economy with the cheapest labor force and produce right under your nose? You?

4. Hey look, the greatest Morin Khuur player prefers living and working in Mongolia. And that's where his heritage will go on. It's logical, he ain't no chinese, he's a mongol.

5. It is absolute bullcrap that we would ever wanna join a crappy organization as S5. In fact, PRC and Russia have exercized big pressure on Mongolia to join it. It was even one of russian conditions for dropping the big dept. And what are those plans you're talking about? Who are you to know this kind of PRC's plans? Jiang Zeming's illegitimate son? Where does one get this kind of twisted information anyway? Probably some chinese military newspapers right?

6. And what's this ranting about khalkha being weak? I bet all the minorities in China and former USSR wished they were as "weak" as us. Why not, if being so weak, we could afford sending troops to ROC and PRC territory twice in the last century. Oh wait, in 1945 we've been freeing the chinese from japanese, as a thank we get "plans"?

7. What do you know about us mongols anyway? There was not a single great khan since M�ngke. Your hiding behind Batmunkh's and Altan's backs is pathetic. They were good khans doing better job than most and they don't deserve having anything to do with the likes of you. And how do you think khalkhas originated in the first place? Batmunkh Dayn Khan gave his eldest son Gersenz a fief and you get khalkhas. All khalkha khans are his descendants.

Comparing us to macedonians is just plain dumb. Where's their religion, or language or culture? If they didn't manage to keep those it's their problem. We have a civilization of our own going on and it has nothing to do with the chinese.

Now this, PRC propaganda is just propaganda and no one half way educated is gonna buy it.  Your chauvinist ranting is comparable to a mosquito bite on my butt. It itches, I scratch it. I propose the moderators to close this retarded thread now.

"And the fact that many mongols are living under PRC rule and have to put up with b-s such as you're bringing up is historically unfair. "

Or rather, living in a semi nomadic country with salary only half of that living in China(which itself isn't high) is quite unfair. While the reason for the mongol population in inner mongolia to greatly surpass that of Outer mongolia is quite simply increase in standard of living and urbanization.

"Oh, and this also. Yelui Chutsai was a kidanian, served mongols and helped a lot in subduing the Jin, I don't even think he was that much sinified."

No, Ye lu chu sai was competely sinified pure and simple, he was not only some what educated in Chinese literature, but one of the highly educated elites in the confucian philosophy. His ancestor is kitan, he already has little of the kitan element left in him.

"You think any mongolian really would wanna go work in China?"

Considering their salary is not much more than half that of the inner mongolians, yes.

Ok... what are we arguing about?

Are we asking "Can the PRC say Ghengis Khan is their hero?"
No, it can't.

Can the USA say "The Roman Empire is our hero!"

No, they can't.

But Americans can admire Alexander, Americans can admire the Roman Empire, Americans can accept Jesus as their savoir.

Just as someone Chinese can admire Ghengis Khan and his progeny.

I'm just a bit fuzzed on that point. I don't think a government should make claims like that, but I think it's perfectly fine for people living in that society to say such things.

So is the question "The PRC declare Ghengis their hero!" ? If so, I disagree. Countries don't need to do stuff like that.

Is the question "Can Chinese admire Ghengis Khan, who wasn't Chinese?" I say yes, yes they can.

Can the average white American tell Mongolians and Chinese apart?

The PRC today, with its Han ethnocentrism and 'everyone's Chinese' attitude is the 'perfect legacy' of CK and his lineage? man...to be the perfect legacy of the mongol empire you have to be a mongol.

Look, here is my view.

I won't give any **** or anything about he is my hero, as long as it is not interpreted further. 

Like I don't like how China goes like "since that guy is our hero, his land is ours"

This is rediculous... It is as if America is claiming Tecumseh as their hero just because Shawnees are living under American rule in the current times!!!

Genghis Khan viewed China as an enemy who was turning Mongols against eachother through diplomacy! Plus he massacred a great number of Chinese after conquest. When he did conquer some parts of it, he said to his descendants to never live in houses like the Chinese, but live in gers (tents) as their mongol ansestors had always done, thus never accepting the Chinese culture.

If Yuan was so Chinese why were there anti-Mongol rebellions that lead to the establishment of Ming?

According to what you say, if PRC conquers Japan, then they will soon be declaring Tojo their hero.

Hitler taught his people that Genghis Khan is an Aryan conqueror... why can't be be Chinese?

By the way I dislike Genghis Khan... he was a mass-murderer and killed off whole populations of cities. Mongols followed the example in their later conquests. One theory even suggests that Arabia fell behind Europe in Economic/Political force because the Mongols caused so much devestation.

okay, i'm sure there are lots of rich mongol individuals here and there in the prc. but inner mongolia as a whole is still a very poor region, and more importantly the beijing administration seeks to break down the identity of the mongols as an unique people by either ignoring their achievements or parading them under the name of 'chinese'. in this way it seeks to assimilate them altogether, as it does Kazakhs, Tibetans, uighurs and countless others. this isn't multiculturalism, it's cultural imperialism.

also, genghis did employ han chinese, but under the mongol empire there was a very clear hierarchy between the different ethnic races and mongols and chinese were not encouraged to intermarry. mongols were at the top of the empire's hierarchy, southern chinese at the bottom. it is ironic why the chinese regard a regime which evidently had little sympathy for them as their own.

"The PRC today, with its Han ethnocentrism and 'everyone's Chinese' attitude is the 'perfect legacy' of CK and his lineage? man...to be the perfect legacy of the mongol empire you have to be a mongol."

Thats absolute nonsense, PRC is far from Han ethnocentrism, that would be the ROC with their anti manchu centiments. And they even specifically mentioned that Han should dominate the country where PRC mentioned none of these.

"okay, i'm sure there are lots of rich mongol individuals here and there in the prc. but inner mongolia as a whole is still a very poor region, and more importantly the beijing administration seeks to break down the identity of the mongols as an unique people by either ignoring their achievements or parading them under the name of 'chinese'. in this way it seeks to assimilate them altogether, as it does Kazakhs, Tibetans, uighurs and countless others. this isn't multiculturalism, it's cultural imperialism."

Bullsh*t, if you don't know something, don't make it up, have you even been to inner mongolia, Tibet or Xing Jiang? Or do you even know how the school system works? As an ethnic minority I can tell you how the school system works, kids learn both Han and their naticve writing, but they all speak their native language at school, as grades go on more and more of the writing is learned, thats why inner monglians preserve more of their mongol script than the outer mongolians, Tibet isn't even much sinicized for your information, not much sinification cahnged since the PRC take over with the exception of a limited Han moving there.

"If Yuan was so Chinese why were there anti-Mongol rebellions that lead to the establishment of Ming?"

Corrections, the rebellion has nothing to do with anti mongol, it started because of the disasters and shortage of food within the empire and rumor that the Yuan lost the mandate of heaven went rampant, only during the late time did Zhu yuan Zhang use the slogan chase out the barbarians to make his attack easier since the mongol government has tightened the racist laws at this moment. And last but not least this is pure ethnic hatred nothing to do with the "nationality" of modern sense since it did not exist back then. In fact Ming historians excepted quite readily the legitimacy of the Yuan dynasty when writing Yuan Shi.

As I said, this thread's got nothing to do with CK, whether he was heroic or not etc. It's all about trying to make inner mongolians look more chinese. I don't watch any chinese tv series be it about Buddha or CK, so talk about the great historical education you got from them with your old woman. I've put clear answers and facts, corrected obvious mistakes and the man just keeps on ranting something about khalkhas or Galdan, as if he had any idea about mongols. There you have propaganda and brainwashing. I'd like this clive person to just go and talk to some actual mongols from China, like I did and get the answers I got. He'll probably turn berserk and start planning the next cultural revolution. And if this clive person really hangs about UB I'll gladly clean my shoes with his physionomy.

warhead: you could come work at some of those road constuction projects in the country-side, get the authentic taste of being chinese.

Is that why Chinese called all their neighbours, including Manchus, barbarians?

The title of this topic is nonsense. Period.

I recommend Tojo to be the next "Chinese hero" because he was so patriotic and fought in the name of his country.  One moment shout all hail Communism! The next, shout all hail Fascism!

Stop talking imperialism-speak you Maoist.

There was a famous imperialist called Clive (Black Sheep?) - who basically colonized whole of Bengal - you do well to follow his name.

Doers are so unemotional and cool and creative that they create concentration camps and wipe out whole races.... evildoers...

"Is that why Chinese called all their neighbours, including Manchus, barbarians? "

Europeans also call others barbarians during the 19th century, are they one nation?

"Stop talking imperialism-speak you Maoist. "

Considering his wife is mongol whats so imperialistic about it?

 "could come work at some of those road constuction projects in the country-side, get the authentic taste of being chinese"

Did that, better than living in mongolia.

Cortez's mistress was a Mexican native... so he isn't an imperialist? There are people (ie. some Chinese during Opium War) who willingly gave up their coutry to side with invaders... are they not a part of the imperialist gang?

Who said Europe was one? I said there was concept of nationality in China - isn't that why they called all other people, some of whom were their technological surperiors "barians"?

Of course there was a concept of nationality - otherwise why would Gengis Khan have been prejudiced to Chinese, prefering to use Islamic Arab/Persian officials rather than the natives even in China?

Even 1400 years back in Ancient Greece there was concept of nationality. Note that Aristotles taught that Greeks are always surperior to "barbarians", not only culturally, but biologically.

"Who said Europe was one?"

Applying your logic it would be.

" I said there was concept of nationality in China - isn't that why they called all other people, some of whom were their technological surperiors "barians"?"

Poor example, as with Europe. This is more to do with ethnocentricity and cultural centered bias than anything with nation.

"otherwise why would Gengis Khan have been prejudiced to Chinese, prefering to use Islamic Arab/Persian officials rather than the natives even in China? "

Genghis did use Chinese, Ye lu chu Tasi was a native of China. you've confused the later khans with him.

I said there was a concept of nationality? How does that relate to Europe being in pieces???

Isn't culture + ethnicity + religion practically nationality? What else is there to "nationality"??? Wether Black, Asian or Caucasian all those who live the American ways of life are American are they not?

Aha so there was prejudice against Chinese as you admitted it.

"I said there was a concept of nationality? How does that relate to Europe being in pieces??? "

It relates to it because Europe in the 19th century also view the world as barbaric, but that doesn't mean Europe is a nationality just like China is not beccuase it view opthers as barbarian.

"Isn't culture + ethnicity + religion practically nationality?"

No, or the United States in the late 1700s would be the same nation as Britain which it wasn't.

"What else is there to "nationality"??? Wether Black, Asian or Caucasian all those who live the American ways of life are American are they not?"

You already mentioned it yourself, Black, asians and whites are different ethnic groups, they could very well have different religion and cul;ture but as long as they are citizens of the united states and feel themselves to be American they are Aerican, thus your culture + ethnicity + religion practically nationality statement is puer wrong.

 "What else is there to "nationality"??? "

Very simple, a political identity.

Who said China is one? I said China viewed others as barbaric, so there must be nationalities! Same with Europe. If there were no other nationalities, as Clive suggested, would they view others barbaric? I don't think so.

No, United States was mostly Prostestant which was different from English Anglicans, and their culture was starkly different from the British. If not, how could they speak different dilects of English?

No. They may be ethnically different but they are culturally the same, which is something greater. Note that my equation is made up off adding, meaning that not every factor has the same significance.

Bah! So just because Chechens are inside Russia they are not a nationality of their own? Nonsense.

So, if you were to name parts of China conquered by Japan, you would call them Japanese right?

So my equation stands.

"Who said China is one?"

No one, niether did I.

" I said China viewed others as barbaric, so there must be nationalities! Same with Europe. If there were no other nationalities, as Clive suggested, would they view others barbaric? I don't think so. "

No, they view others barbaric because they are culturally different, not because they are of different nationality. even a white supremisist American will look down on black americans, but are they different nationality?

"No. They may be ethnically different but they are culturally the same, which is something greater. Note that my equation is made up off adding, meaning that not every factor has the same significance."

No to what? So you are saying the United states and Britain are the same nationality? If so you're paranoid.

"So, if you were to name parts of China conquered by Japan, you would call them Japanese right?"

No because Japan never declared legitimacy to the Chinese throne.

So you are saying that Chinese and Mongols were of same nationality but culturally different? What a joke...

Uh.. but I never heard KKK and white-supremist-trash calling Blacks, "barbarians"! So your point is outside the issue.

I just explained to you that culture in Britain was different from United States. I also said that their religion was different. Also, to add, there were a number of German, Irish, Dutch and othe non-Brits in America as well. Furthermore, their economy was far different from the British. Thus they are two different nationalities! You just ignore my words totally in the former post...

Oh no they actually did when they made the Last Emperor (Puyi?) the Emperor of Manchuguo.

"So you are saying that Chinese and Mongols were of same nationality but culturally different? What a joke..."

No i did not say that so the joke is on you. And those inner mongolians that do think they are chi8nese are chinese.

"Uh.. but I never heard KKK and white-supremist-trash calling Blacks, "barbarians"! So your point is outside the issue."

Barbarians, inferior race, the concept is the same.

"I just explained to you that culture in Britain was different from United States. I also said that their religion was different. Also, to add, there were a number of German, Irish, Dutch and othe non-Brits in America as well."

The difference is no more than difference between the different states within china itself. Chinese in Manchuria has a different culture than they are in canton too so whats your point?

"Oh no they actually did when they made the Last Emperor (Puyi?) the Emperor of Manchuguo."

?

You said they are culturally different but of same nationality! Thus Mongols were Chinese according to you.

My point is that America is  distinct from Britain in culture, religion and ethnicity, thus a unique nation. You said that according to my theory that is not the cause - i just disproved it.

Manchuguo, do you not recognize it?

"You said they are culturally different but of same nationality! Thus Mongols were Chinese according to you."

No i didn't, I clearly mentioned mongols is a different nationality but those in inner mongolia who claim they are chinese are chinese, don't accuse me of something i didn't say.

"My point is that America is  distinct from Britain in culture, religion and ethnicity, thus a unique nation. You said that according to my theory that is not the cause - i just disproved it."

All places has distinctions, mongols also have distinction with other mongols, the point is Britain and America's difference is slight and they are of the same cultural and ethnic stock.

"Manchuguo, do you not recognize it?"

What about it?

       no decent chinese would recognize the manchukuo...

Topic of Galdan? What does this topic have to do with anything? Half of my family is oirat, so I should be all proud and sinified that this part of my ancestors beat the other part at some point of time? And I should stigmatize myself right after that, because the other part of my ancestors allowed themselves to lose a war? I repeat, you don't know anything to talk about us mongols. We got our contradictions, we got our problems, and that's our business.

And what does the economic and social situation in Mongolia have to do wih CK? The fact that we got more freedom, are more progressive than you in PRC is hurting your miserable ego? Mongolians working as taxi drivers in Beijing is just in your fantasy. And I bet your wife would go whoring anytime too, if she married a dumbass like you. Economic cooperation with PRC? Off course I'm all for it, in fact, I'm working on that myself. So what does this all have to do with CK?

"And what does the economic and social situation in Mongolia have to do wih CK? The fact that we got more freedom, are more progressive than you in PRC is hurting your miserable ego?"

More progressiveness? What planet are you from? You call a semi nomadic wasteleand with horses and motorcycles as the main tool and half the people living in huts with less than half the salary of PRC as progressive?

"Mongolians working as taxi drivers in Beijing is just in your fantasy."

No, its a fact, you're just ignorant of it.

" And I bet your wife would go whoring anytime too, if she married a dumbass like you. "

From what I've seen you're just as dumb.

Oh, Texas has distinction with New York as a mongol tribe has distinction with one another.

PRC is progressive because it resembles 1984 (Orwell). Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. War is Peace. Adopt these and go foward to victory!

You said that Japanese never propped up an Emperor over China. They did in case of Manchguo. So all Manchurians must have been Japanese back then since they are under Japan's political control according to you.

There are Indian doctors working as taxidrivers in Canada and Chinese rocket scientist working as a restaurent waiter...  Want to boast more about your civillized country?

Warhead, you are so intelligent because you think that Taiwan is attacking China since its demonstrators are protesting against its own corrupt government.  Gives an insight into what PRC defines as "intelligence" dosn't it?

No decent human being will recognize Chinese rule over any part of Mongolia or Tibet. Only beasts do.  By the way that is a compliment.

"Oh, Texas has distinction with New York as a mongol tribe has distinction with one another. "

Yes and same with the whole of Britain with the United States

"You said that Japanese never propped up an Emperor over China. They did in case of Manchguo. So all Manchurians must have been Japanese back then since they are under Japan's political control according to you. "

No, Japan set up a Manchu emperor, their emperor did not become the emperor of manzhou guo, that was my point.

"There are Indian doctors working as taxidrivers in Canada and Chinese rocket scientist working as a restaurent waiter...  Want to boast more about your civillized country?"

I'm not boasting anything, China is a slum, but mongolia and India is much worse, now are you done with your foul poilitical arguments and acutually turn to history?

"Warhead, you are so intelligent because you think that Taiwan is attacking China since its demonstrators are protesting against its own corrupt government. "

I didn't think Taiwan is attacking China, what substance are you on?

"No decent human being will recognize Chinese rule over any part of Mongolia or Tibet. Only beasts do.  By the way that is a compliment. "

No one claims PRC owns mongolia, Beasts are still superior to subhuman losers like you.

No... A texan is less different from a new yorker than he is from a Brit.

You just talked about Mongolian taxidrivers in Beijing. Would you stop "forgetting" your own words?

Oh no, they don't drag people and beat the pulp out of them just for insulting the governemnt in India and they have a multi-party system, although corrupt.

Note the wording of my phrase - "any part of Mongolia".

"No... A texan is less different from a new yorker than he is from a Brit. "

Now it isn't, back in the early 19th century it was. 

"You just talked about Mongolian taxidrivers in Beijing. Would you stop "forgetting" your own words? "

forget what? Whats wrong with mongolian taxi drivers?

"Oh no, they don't drag people and beat the pulp out of them just for insulting the governemnt in India and they have a multi-party system, although corrupt. "

Neither do they in PRC, what period are you living in? the 60s?

"Note the wording of my phrase - "any part of Mongolia"."

And you have no prove just like the rest of your bullsh*t.

Actually no. Texans were actually immigrants from other States in US. They immigrated to Mexico in early part of 1800's and in 1836 they declared independence, and joined the US later on. So they are bascically Americans who went to live south, and then grabbed land from Mexicans.

Your tone of speech is that Mongols are so desperate that they have to come to China to work. What about Chinese boat people who crowd to Canada risking their lives?

What about these Human Rights Violations?:

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/chn-010904-action-eng - http://web.amnesty.org/pages/chn-010904-action-eng

http://www.amnestyusa.org/women/index.do - http://www.amnestyusa.org/women/index.do

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/09/09/china9325.htm - http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/09/09/china9325.htm

"Actually no. Texans were actually immigrants from other States in US. They immigrated to Mexico in early part of 1800's and in 1836 they declared independence, and joined the US later on. So they are bascically Americans who went to live south, and then grabbed land from Mexicans. "

No to what? I'm talking about Cultural difference you idiot. And the south is very much culturally different from the north until well afte the civil war.

"Your tone of speech is that Mongols are so desperate that they have to come to China to work. What about Chinese boat people who crowd to Canada risking their lives?"

Yeah ,Chinese people are desperate, only the mongol people are so poor that they even enter a place as desperate as that of China.

"What about these Human Rights Violations?:"

What about them, they broke the law. Is that wrong, its just that China's laws are harsher, what are you bitching about?