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Persian names in Greece

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mediterranean and Europe
Forum Discription: Greece, Macedon, Rome and other cultures such as Celtic and Germanic tribes
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4641
Printed Date: 10-May-2024 at 16:28
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Topic: Persian names in Greece
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Persian names in Greece
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2005 at 00:27
The only Greek name, that I'm aware of, that they use in Iran is Alexander, pronounced "Eskandar." Do the Greeks use any Persian names (like Darius, or Cyrus)? If so, how do they pronounce them? Just curious.



Replies:
Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2005 at 04:19

Since Greeks were always pronouncing foreign names the way they liked and deemed easier for them and not the way they sounded in the native language, most of the names of ancient Persians, Egyptians, Skythians etc that we know are the way the Greeks pronounced them.

Coming back to your question, practically we pronounce ancient Persian names the way you see them in English (since they became known to the west from the Greek writers), with some minor differenciations.

E.g. Artaxerxes, Kyros (a friend of mine is married to a Persian lady and they named their son as Kyros - also an international Greek referee is named Kyros Vassaras), Dareios, Camvyses etc...

 

 

 



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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2005 at 05:56
Artaxerxis (stress on e), Xerxis (stress on e), Darios (stress on i), Artafernis (stress on e), Ekvatana (stress on first a), Persis = persian (stress on e), Persia (stress on i), Vavylon (stress on o), Kyros (stress on y), Susa (stress on u), Mardonios (stress on first o), Sardis (stress on a), Megabazos (stress on first a), Kamvysis (stress on y), Datis (stress on a).

And many other historical names.


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CARRY NOTHING


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2005 at 11:36

i think the only persian name used in greece today is Kyros

the italians use Dario and Cyrus



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Posted By: Harry Potter
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 19:47
Originally posted by hansel

i think the only persian name used in greece today is Kyros

the italians use Dario and Cyrus

In Macedonia we use Dario too, and Kyros but without the greek S in the end



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Macedonian swear in 1903 wars: With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 20:20

the greek "s" is an adaption of the persian "sh" seems the further west one goes people get lazier with words.

also is "v" in greek pronounced like english "b"?



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Posted By: Harry Potter
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2005 at 21:45
and how the greeks pronounce the english "v"?

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Macedonian swear in 1903 wars: With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”


Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 04:01

Originally posted by Zagros Purya

also is "v" in greek pronounced like english "b"?

In modern Greek, English B is pronounced as "mp", Greek letter "B" is equivalent in english as "V".

Some scholars maintain that in ancient Greek, B sounded like in today's modern English. Others disagree and it's quite difficult to ever know who's right and who's wrong.



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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 04:05
The latin sound "V" is pronounced as "V" in Greek but written as "B".
And the latin sound "B" is pronounced as "B" in Greek but slightly softer and written as "MP".

The reason for the difference is that in ancinet Greek, the sound "B" did not exist. Thus they converted everything to the sound "V". But in modern greek we have integrated the sound "B" by joining the sounds "M" and "P" in to a diphthongue which roughly resembles "B", vocally. And that is why it sounds a bit softer, because you can still notice the slight separation of "M" and "P".


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CARRY NOTHING


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 07:31

Interesting, interesting.

In Spanish the V sounds like B, I thought it was the same in Greek, but it turns out to be the opposite.



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Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 07:35
Thanks Menippe, for elaborating. As it turns out, you're much more eloquent than me!

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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 07:44
No, just more elaborative (psiritzis)

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CARRY NOTHING


Posted By: Harry Potter
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2005 at 22:43

Originally posted by Menippos

The latin sound "V" is pronounced as "V" in Greek but written as "B".
And the latin sound "B" is pronounced as "B" in Greek but slightly softer and written as "MP".

thanx mate, but I dont get one thing. In Xanthi plays one maco, Vance Sikov. his surname in greek was written Sikof, with "F" instead "V" and in macedonian sound "V" is like the latin "V" so in greek should be Sikob, right?



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Macedonian swear in 1903 wars: With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”


Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 17:50
Sikov is a slavic sounding name.
In Greece (thanks to the Germans) we have the mistaken idea that all names ending in -ov and -ev, like Kasparov and Brezniev are pronounced as -of and -ef.
As far as B and V are concerned, in Greek, the sound V sounds like V. But it is written with the letter B. Just like in Cyrillic. So, in Greek, the name Sikov is written ΣΙΚΟΒ, as in Cyrillic is CNKOB (inverse the N, I don't have Cyrillic alpabet installed). And all are pronounced SIKOV.

Solved?


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CARRY NOTHING


Posted By: Harry Potter
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 20:10

yes, thanx

so in greek is ƒ°ƒ§ƒ¨ƒ­„U, in cyrillic is „Y„I„K„O„B

„Y - sh (no greek sound for that )



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Macedonian swear in 1903 wars: With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”


Posted By: Harry Potter
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 20:19
one more think Im interested in, u havo 2 "O"s, "O" and "Ù". What is the defference?

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Macedonian swear in 1903 wars: With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”


Posted By: Menippos
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2005 at 03:11
Nowadays "o" (omicron) and "w" (omega) are indiscernible vocally. But in the older times the difference was that "o" was short (thus o-micron = o-small) and "w" was long (thus o-mega = o-big).

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CARRY NOTHING


Posted By: Istor the Macedonian
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 18:00
Macedonians had and have Greek Language. That's why they called the city Thessaloniki as no Slav could ever call it. No Slavic language has the sound th(eta) as in "thing". That's why Slavs (including SlavoSkopians) call the city as Solun.

Istor
Ethnic Macedonians were always Greeks


Posted By: Perseas
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 06:52

Greeks had a tedency to regularize foreign names. As far as your question about Persian names here are some examples...

- The name Artaxerxes is the regularization of the original Persian name Artakhshathra. 

- The name Xerxes is the regularization of the original Persian name Khshayarsha.

- The name Darius from the regularization of the old Persian name Dârayawuð.

Even the name of the famous Indian founder of the Mauryan empire Chandragupta was regularised from Greeks into Sandracottus.

Note: All these regularised foreign names like the ones above have no meaning in Greek but reading the last post, i have to say all Macedonian names like Alexandros and Phillipos are completely meaningful in greek in their original forms therefore there was no need anyone to regularize them.

And the answer is very simple: Because all the Macedonian names were originally Greek.



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A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty.


Posted By: Harry Potter
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 20:57

Originally posted by Istor the Macedonian

Macedonians had and have Greek Language. That's why they called the city Thessaloniki as no Slav could ever call it. No Slavic language has the sound th(eta) as in "thing". That's why Slavs (including SlavoSkopians) call the city as Solun.

Istor
Ethnic Macedonians were always Greeks



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Macedonian swear in 1903 wars: With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”


Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 21:55
Originally posted by Zagros

Interesting, interesting.

In Spanish the V sounds like B, I thought it was the same in Greek, but it turns out to be the opposite.



Spanish (Castilian) has a lot of Basque influence, and that is one trait: in Basque there's no "v" sound (nor letter), though we have half a dozen sybilants. The sybilants didn't enter Castilian but the lack of "v" sound did.


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NO GOD, NO MASTER!



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