Today is the anniversary of conquest of the last Roman city, Trebizond by the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Mehmet II Khan the Conquerer. I tought we can celebrate it with all people interested in.

Regards, Oguzoglu

Of course I am. My contribution is a short history of the city (Trapezounta in the original, Greek, name)

History

Originally founded as Trapezus by traders from Miletus (traditionally in 756 BC), the city was one of a number (about ten) of Milesian emporia, or trading colonies along the shores of the Black Sea. Others include Sinope, Abydos and Cyzicus (in the Dardanelles). Like most Greek colonies, the city was a small enclave of Greek life, and not an empire unto its own, in the later European sense of the word. When Xenophon and the "ten thousand" Greek mercenaries fighting their way out of Persia, reached Trapezus, it was the first Greek city they had reached (Xenophon, Anabasis, 5.5.10).

The city was added to the kingdom of Pontus by Mithridates VI Eupator and it became home port for the Pontic fleet.

When the kingdom was annexed to the Roman province of Galatia in 64-65 CE, the fleet simply passed to new commanders, becoming the Classis Pontica. Trapezus gained importance under Roman rule in the 1st century AD because from its roadstead a road over the Zigana Pass led to the Armenian frontier or the upper Euphrates valley. New roads were constructed from Persia and Mesopotamia under the rule of Vespasian, and Hadrian commissioned improvements to give the city a more structured harbor. A mithraeum now serves as a crypt for the church of Panaghia Theoskepastos in nearby Kizlara, east of the citadel and south of the modern harbor. The city was pillaged by the Goths in 258, and, although it was afterwards re-built, Trapezus did not recover until the trade route regained importance in the 8th to 10th centuries.

After the Fourth Crusade in 1204, a Byzantine successor state was founded there with support of Queen Tamar of Georgia, the Empire of Trebizond, which ruled part of the Black Sea coast from Trabzon until 1461, when its ruler, David, surrendered to Mehmed II, ruler of the Ottoman Empire. Following this takeover Mehmet sent many Turkish settlers into the area, but the old ethnic Armenian, Greek and Abkhaz communities remained. During the late Ottoman period, the city had a great Christian influence in terms of culture, and a wealthy merchant class who created several Western consulates.

Trebizond was captured during World War I by forces under the command of the Grand Duke Nicholas Nikolayevich of Russia. Following the Treaty of Sevres and subsequent Treaty of Lausanne, Trabzon has been in the hands of Turkey. The city is still a busy trading centre, more so after the collapse of the USSR, although the shipping industry fell into decline after the rail route between Ankara and Erzurum, and the road to Iran.

Trabzon is famous throughout Turkey for its anchovies, which are the main meal in many restaurants in the city. Major exports from Trabzon are hazelnuts and tea.

What a grim and pitiful end for the Grand Komnenos David Comnenus and his family.

I have always wondered what happened exactly at the walls of Trebizond City and Sinope when the Ottomans besieged the cities.  William Miller provides some details in his old book Trebizond: The Last Greek Empire.  David Comnenus capitulated in the end because of some rampant sedition in the Trapezuntine court.  However, there was some fighting that occured outside the walls of the cities.  Has anyone ever read about what the Trapezuntine  army looked like in terms of uniforms and equipment?  Did they have firearms and artillery?  It would seem that they would have gunpowder weapons because Trebizond was an economic center in the Black Sea.  What do you think?

well, they have not much reason to conquer Trabzon.

After conquest of Istanbul, Muhammet the conquerer wanted to finish all byzantium cities.

And anatolia was conquered later than Balkain, because of Turkic Beyliks. Ottomans didnt touch them until Beyazýt 1, and than timur comes

Later Muhammet the conquerer took this beyliks.. Most probably this is reason for Trabzon long surviva.

By the way, armenians claim trabzon for their city also. But dont have much knowledge maybe armenian survival can help us about this topic.

Constantine what he did? I mean David Komnenos?

and  you didnt cast any shadow over celebration. This is what happens at that times. At least their people spared.

That remind's me of Sophocles tragedy, Antigone.

Yes, but I read at armenian from, There were armenians before the rums. Dont have much idea but. They called trabzon   as their city.

Rums? What is this nationality?

we  call greeks who  live  in Turkey or Cyprus as Rum. And greek who live in Greece are Yunan.

Does anyone knows what kind of army the Trapezuntines had?

I gess they were much influenced by their turkish neighbours, but I would like to know what kind of clothes they wore, what kind of militaria, weapons, etc.

Sikander

I said something about this above:

Hopefully this will start some discussion, then, because I am interested in the Trapezuntine army too, Sikander!   Here is some information that I have found in some reading on the subject.

In Osprey Men-at-Arms #287, Byzantine Armies, AD 1118-1461, by Ian Heath, there are a few details on the Trapezuntine army and the Ottoman sieges of 1461. Heath points out that the Trapezuntine military was damaged after a series of civil wars in the late 14th century. He says some overestimates in primary accounts puts the maximum troop number at 15,000 to 25,000. By the 15th century, however, Heath maintains that a count of 600 was about as large as the army would be until the fall of Trebizond. He says that the Trapezuntines later "abandoned military confrontation in favour of diplomatic marriage alliances with its powerful Turkish neighbours." (38-40) An artistic representation in the book of a 15th century Trapezuntine soldier depicts a cavalryman dressed in Turkish garb, unarmored, with a scimitar and a bow. He wears the a hat resembling the one John VIII Palaeologus is wearing in Pisanello's medallion of the emperor.

Here is a webpage that seems to be pretty well-written and informative:

http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/straif/69/engtrapez.htm - http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/straif/69/engtrapez.ht m

The article contained in the page has a good bibliography of sources. However, except for the Miller book and the two Vasiliev articles, the other books with the Greek authors are all written in modern Greek! The writer of the article must have translated the titles into English for the bibliography.  I have copies of those two Vasiliev articles, and I have read the Miller book. There is also another genealogical study of the Grand Comneni by Anthony Bryer, but it does not have much about the military.  The Osprey book and Miller to a certain extent are the only sources that have any real information on Trebizond's army that I have come across.  Can anyone add to this and / or suggest any other sources?

No. "Rum" is a citizen of the Eastern Roman Empire. The Rums of Turkey dont call themselves Greeks, "Yunan"s or "Hellens". They call themselves "Rum", Roman. And they consider themselves the real descendants of the Roman Empire, not as Greeks. For example, Istanbul, Trebizond and Izmir has high numbers of Rums.

The Greeks living on the Muslim lands are and were called "Rum" meaning the "Romans", but I think Rums call themselves both "Romios" and "Hellen" in Greek language. Am I wrong? 

dont they call themself as yunan? and why do we call cypriot as rum?

"Rum" was the term that the Ottomans used for the actual Orthodox Church, specifically the Patriarchate in Constantinople. 

"Rhomaioi" was the term that Byzantines used to describe themselves ; it did mean "Romans".  Up until the fall of Constantinople and Trebizond the Byzantines viewed themselves as Romans, part of the imperial tradition that began with Augustus. 

The term "Hellene" did not creep into usage until the late Byzantine period, first by prominent humanists such as Gemistos Plethon and Manuel Chrysoloras.  Hellene soon lost its former pagan, non-Christian connotations and was used as a nationalistic term by Byzantine Greeks and post-Byzantine Greeks.

You know, there is a surprising large amount of people here in AE who would really disagree with you about this, call you crazy and spend hours of their lives trying to prove and convince you otherwise. Why? Nobody knows... Perplexing! 

While we are on the subject of Hellas, does anyone know what the word means?

Armenians claim Trabizon (Drabizon in Western Armenian) because it should have been a part of Armenia according to the Sèvres treaty (1920). Sèvres was accepted by the Ottoman Sultan but was rejected by the rebels led by Mustafa Kemal. However, Armenians were unable to take over the whole territory because of ''certain reasons'' even though Trabizon and other parts of Western Armenia was legally attributed to Armenia.

The Sèvres map was drawn by President Wilson (of the US). He gave the Trabizon area to the Armenians, so that they would have access to a much needed seaport.

Historically, Armenians had a large presence there, notably during the Byzantine and Ottoman periods. Their population was 73 000 in the Ottoman province of Trebizond. (according to 20 voices)

http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh/turk_arm_war-1-1920.php - http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh /turk_arm_war-1-1920.php

The Hellenes considered themselves the descendants of one common ancestor, Hellen, the son of Deucalion and Pyrrha. To Hellen were ascribed three sons, Dorus, Xuthus, and AEolus. Of these Dorus and AEolus gave their names to the DORIANS and AEOLIANS; and Xuthus; through his two sons Ion and Achaeus, became the forefather of the IONIANS and ACHAEANS. Thus the Greeks accounted for the origin of the four great divisions of their race. The descent of the Hellenes from a common ancestor, Hellen, was a fundamental article in the popular faith. It was a general practice in antiquity to invent fictitious persons for the purpose of explaining names of which the origin was buried in obscurity. It was in this way that Hellen and his sons came into being; but though they never had any real existence, the tales about them may be regarded as the traditional history of the races to whom they gave their names.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/ancient-greece/history-of-ancient-greece-2-origin.asp - http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/ancient-greece/hi story-of-ancient-greece-2-origin.asp

I'm not very sure about that either. They might have moved there during the Ottoman years.

Out of Armenia itself, Armenians had a large presence in Sebastia (Sivas), Cilicia and Edessa areas during the Byzantine days.

Trebizond had a major population of Laz, people related with Georgian but not Georgian. Laz still occupy most of the population in Trebizond and eastern regions. They have been inhabiting the region since even before Milet colonies.

Armenians have never been a dominant popuylation in Trebizond, Rums and Laz were. So Armenian claims on that city werent sensible. The Russian wanted Armenia to claim Trebizond so that they would have a rich trading Black Sea dock in the south. The main Armenian population of that time was dispersed around the Eastern province, Erzurum, Kars, Van, Bitlis, Tunceli etc. During Ottoman reign, Sivas was a dominantly Turkish city, then Kurd and Armenians.

The Treaty of Sevres was sharing the lands with dominant Turkish populations btw other states. The Ottoman dynasty have signed it, but the new authority of Ankara, the founders of Turkish Republic werent any related with Ottoman authority, they were even wanted by the Padishah. But they didnt accept that treaty, fought with the Greek army. Then the Itýlaf States had to leave Turkey. With Ataturk's leadership, there happened lots of battles btw Turks and Greeks. Turkey won its independence (not Ottoman Empire), and signed the Lausanene Treaty, which is internationally recognized. And then, Ataturk's government exiled the Osmanogly dynasty, declared the republic, ended the sultanate and caliphate.

So practically, as it's internationally recognized, Ottoman Empire signed the treaty of Sevres, but Turkey didnt. And naturally, Turkey isnt the total succesor state of Ottoman Empire, and isnt responsible with the treaties it signed, or the actions it took.

Before 1915, most of the area given to Armenia was obviously majority Armenian, or Turks formed a minority.

I always thought that the Young Turks were closer to Ataturk than to the Sultanate. Wasn't Mustapha Kemal himself a Young Turk at one point?

In the Black sea coast there are still Islamicized Greeks and Islamicized Armenians, called Hamshentsi or Hemshinli.

Ataturk was a member of Ittýhad ve Terakki once, but his ideas were totallu against theirs. Ataturk was all against Turan and Enver Pasha was his rival. He was declared a traitor by the Ottoman government, so practically, he was against both.

But he developed some of the ideas of Young Turks, such as nationalism and secularism. He was influenced with their purpose of creating a modern Turkish nation from the multiethnical, collapsed structure of the empire. His other actions were against the purposes of Young Turks.

I think you're referring to Chamli Hemshin, a region east of Rize. There lives no Armenians or Rums there, but Islamicized Georgians and Laz. Most of the Muslim Rums live around Trebizond, but there arent any significant numbers of Armenians.

The Sevres treaty gave the cities of Trebizond and Erzincan to Armenia, but those cities didnt have major Armenian populations. As I said, Erzurum, Kars, Bitlis, Ardahan were the most Armenian populated cities.

So those of you who like the idea of a united Turanian state dislike Ataturk?

In wikipedia the Hemshinli are cited as the only ethnic group related to Armenians. Some of them even know an Armenian dialect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamshenis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamshenis

Well, the idea of Turan was just a political purpose for that time. And it was an impossible purpose, a purpose which drove the empire to the end. Ataturk was against it because he was for being busy with the new republic's inner works and reforms, rather than imperialk Pan-Turkish missions. Turan was a harmful dream, beautiful but impossible, because it was used as a puppet.

I always tought Chamli Hemshinlis were Georgians, their looks, their traditions are very similar with Georgians of the region. But yes, it says they are Armenians. Anyway, I know they arent Turks.