IIRC Uzbek and Uyghur are both placed in the Eastern Group of Turkic Languages. The Uzbeks and Uyghurs have been sedentery for a long time too.

Chono, the Uyghurs of Tarim are more closer to Tocharians (I mean, the majority of Tarim were Tocharians before the Uyghurs came and Turkified the region) rather than to Iranics.

Again with Tocharians

I would really suggest you look up the Yuezhi and Kushan.

Beauty of Lou Lan

Hi,ihsan

well,if you say ethnically uyghur and uzbek are different ,then why the culture of these two nations are similar ,I mean from the mosques the uyhgur built in eastern turkistan ,I think it is more iranic ,very like in Uzbekistan ,and their triditional clothes are very like ours ,even the food ,well (I think in Estern turkistan they eat more vegetable ),kirghis and Kazakh are ethnically different but their culture and clothes even the language are almost the same ,could you tell me some detail ,especially  of root of uzbek and uyhgur before 840 AD ,is there some relation between them ?

Yes, Uighurs and Uzbeks are extremely similar. Their languages are almost completely identical. I am not sure why they were considered different peoples and why the Uzbeks of Xinjiang were not just considered Uighur.

BTW perdon, what was your impression of Xinjiang? I've been there as well too.

well,sort of ancient ,especilly kashger  ,I like it any way ,it is a little bit like Khiva of Uzbekistan ,Hotan is also cool,Turfun is wonderful ,I think chinese communists doesn't change their life too much ,I mean uyhgur has worse living condition then chinese.

uyhgur are Chinese. Like Gubuk in this forum is an American,not a Korean. You are similar in culture. But culture does not equal to nationality, China is a multi-culture country like many other country of the world.

Many Han Chinese are more poorer than uyhgur Chinese. 95 percent poorers in China are Han Chinese. That's all I can tell you.

to hannibal

  Well,i am not sure about the conception of chinese ,are you talking about the citzenship of PRC or just the ethnnic group HAn ?to be honest ,I am not a politician ,but I think uyghur in its own land are oppressed by han chinese too much ,you have to admmit ! I can tell you my experience in Xikiang a little bit !Once I set my foot in Sikiang uyhgur rigion ,I was acutally followlled by one guy from china security agency, sort of like KGB in soviet ( at that time ,I didn't know I am followed),in Sikiang Chinese and uyhgur don't talk or don't even sit togher in Resturtnt ,they are in completely different world ,I think they hate chinese too much ,I am always wrongly thought to be uyhgur ,and when I say I am from Uzbekistan ,a lot of people gather aroud me ,asking me a lot of questions ,they are very friendly ,note ,I speak uzbek ,they understand what I said if speak slowly ,uyghur tone souds strange to me ,but I can still understand them ,a guy among them can speak russian ,so we talk a little bit ,from him ,I know in Kashger 90 percent of population are uyhgur ,but in local Government ,60% are chinese ,and uyghur has not right to make decision in Government.,and a lot of Immigration are coming from estern part of china ,most of them are even Illiterate ,but still can find a good job but a lot of uyhgur graduates still cannot find a job ,mostly because they cannot speak chinese well.and han chinese communists are too curupt!  and uyhgur has to be very caregul about their religious belif ! to live in China is very difficulT!that day ,when I went back to hotel ,some policeman came to my room and asked me to careful while asking questions from uyhgur ! later ,form a uyhgur ,I knew that foreigners from post soviet central asian coutry and turkey will be followed ! well ,I can understand ,because russian did the same thing to us !

    WELL  to me .I like girls better then Politics!   

TO Ihsan

   Becareful if you come to CHIna !

Originally posted by honeybee Hey Perdon, I'm afraid your quite wrong. .

sorry ,I am just telling about what I saw! and I didn't make any judgement ,why you said I was wrong! I don't care much about uyhgur!I am a Uzbek!   but I like this nation   ,they are very nice people!  May ALah  bless them!!      

dear perdon:

  I'm uyghur  from xin jiang uyghur autonomous region. and very pleased to read your posts here. just as you find , we have so many things in common:lunguage,clothings, faces, sturucture-buildings,literature, religion and even history.furthermore ,our ancestors.
  I wonder why we are called with such different names as uyghur and uzbek.
in my homeland ,many uyghurs know this fact uyghur and uzbeck are almost the same people.  the reason is uzbek songs are so popular among uyghurs.the songs of yulduz osmanowa and shahzad are welcome here. almost every words of their lyrics are understandible to us. we have many uzbek movies here. their clothings , their every day life is so similar to ours.

 in china ,the chinese use a standard lunguage called " pu tong hua" as their common lunguage. but there are several different dialects .without  the help of "pu tong hua",the chinese from si chuan province totally cannot communicate with a chinese from guang dong province. the lunguage of guang dong, and surronding areas is called Cantonese. but these people are called with the same name as "han" ,or chinese.
    we almost  fully understand each other. but  we are different people. with different names. I think you can understand following lines. as it is in my mother lunguage.

  uzbek qerndishim ,bundaq ohshashliqining sewebini meningmu bilgim bar. kop nersilerni yazmaqchi idim. qalghini keyinge(songha) qalsun.
  ramazaningiz kutluk bolsun!  allah hem siz uzbeklerge rehmet qilsun.
  May allah bless you and your people!

we eleykum essalam, kazak qerindishim BekD:

 thank you for welcoming me! athough I never learned kazakche(kazak language) before, I understand all what you said. I think turk languages ,such as  uyghur ,uzbek, kazak,kyrgiz, turkmen,tatar,turkish,azarbaijan anguages are cannot be said different languages, but dialects of the same turk language. for uyghurs most close turk language is uzbek, and then turkman,tatar,azarbaijan, kirgiz,kazak. modern turkish is somewhat difficult to understand at first.

perdon:

  what do the uzbek historians tells about qarahans(karahanids)? do they regard them as a part of their history? since the first capital of this sate is in kaghgar ( kashgar city in xinjiang ,china now),secound is balasaghun in todays  kyrgizstan. karahanids controlled many part of central asia. including todays uzbekistan. this state is divided between two brothers in 1042: the Eastern Karahanids and the Western Karahanids.

I am a Chinese from Hong Kong.

Sorry, I can't understand any word of fusnfjsdbgkjgfxknfdsjgkjdbgkj

hahaha.

I am stupid, but what's the difference between uyghur and uzbek???

my driver in shanghai is some uyghur guy from xinjiang. he's a muslim but he eats pork all the time. he speaks chinese better than i do. i mean mandarin.

and he doesn't wanna be known as a uyghur but a shanghainese chinese. i guess he's probably han washed.

also, when i asked him if people from xijiang know how to speak mandairn.

he told me they speak better than i do.

in that case, i think they are pretty good already since i can at least communicate.

it sucks to have to give up ur own citizenship

i have three citizenships and i am not required to give up any ^_^

besides,

to answer your concern, i'm gonna retype what i typed before.

let's say a chinese from shanghai meets a chinese from beijing in hennan

the beijing guy asks the shanghai guy "what are u?" obviously the shanghai guy is not gonna say "i am chinese"

he's gonna say "i'm shanghainese"

but that doesn't have anything to with him not being chinese.

so i guess ur korean and also an american.

same thing with people from xijiang, they are urghur (can't spell) but they are also chinese.

i know that's how it is in sk.

but in hk, u get the citizenship from ur parents even when u are american by birth.

as you admit ,you can not understand the meaning of fusnfjsdbgkjgfxknfdsjgkjdbgkj. unless learn it. just like the  language you write in  here.

as for that guy who claim himself being  uyghur.why do you say he is uyghur? in xin jiang there are many of your brethen who good at mandarin, i mean hans. they  say they are from xin jiang. in your language they say . "xin jiang ren." but "xin jiang ren" the term  doesn't  equal to uyghur. uyghur is different .

    you claim he is muslim. why? just because he tells you he is uyghur? 
uyghur the name doesn't mean all of them  are muslims.  uyghurs educated in communst ideolgy like all the chinese. uyghur parents have no right to teach their children the faith they belive in-"islam. ".

I think he is chinese like you.

I tell you again, all the people from xin jiang  are not uyghurs. uyghurs are distinctive ethnic group who have its own language, culture,religion.

  I 'm uyghur, a citizen of china . but I 'm not chinese.   ask this question  from a russian living in kazakistan.  what will he say?  does he say he is kazak.or russian?

 US and China is different. as US is immigrant country. the citizens of US come from all parts of the world. the only way to identify themselves is AMERICAN. but china is different.  all it s citizens are living in their own land,  there is no much immigartion like in US.  before chinese come to our land we have our own national name like turk or uyghur. uyghurs never called their land "xin jiang" .it is chinese name.

"

as you admit ,you can not understand the meaning of fusnfjsdbgkjgfxknfdsjgkjdbgkj. unless learn it. just like the  language you write in  here.

as for that guy who claim himself being  uyghur.why do you say he is uyghur? in xin jiang there are many of your brethen who good at mandarin, i mean hans. they  say they are from xin jiang. in your language they say . "xin jiang ren." but "xin jiang ren" the term  doesn't  equal to uyghur. uyghur is different .

   you claim he is muslim. why? just because he tells you he is uyghur? 
uyghur the name doesn't mean all of them  are muslims.  uyghurs educated in communst ideolgy like all the chinese. uyghur parents have no right to teach their children the faith they belive in-"islam. ".

I think he is chinese like you. "

i can't understand your language in romanization. so as mandarin. i can't understand mandarinw written in romanization. but i can read the chinese writing. i have enver been taught pin yin or mandarin in hk.

My driver in Shanghai is a uyghur. My mom told me that. We not only have a noun for xin jiang wen but a name for uyghur ethicity in Chinese that sounds like (wei wu ij). Besdes, I think i can tell he's a uyghur by his look!

he's a muslim because he said he is. but he doesn't pray because he said it's troublesome. he's lived in shanghai since he was a child but he's a urghur and his daughter goes to a urghur school designed for urghur minority.

i know the difference between a han and a urghur and u dun have to worry about that. my aunt used to live in xin jiang.

i know xin jiang is a chinese name meaning new territories. but the truth is that my urghur driver doesn't like others to call him a urghur but a shanghainese. he claims to be muslims because his parents made him one. yet he eats pork and doesn't pray. he might be han washed but he is a urghur by ethicity.

it's like the indian people in hk who look exactly like the indians but they speak perfect cantonese and don't talk in indian at all.

What does the word "Chinese" mean?

"Uighurs are by no means chinese.  They are turkic people who have a lot in common with Central Asian countries and Turkey." 

well, good point. that makes the fact of taiwan being part of china even stronger for their han ethical, identical, and cultural background.

i didnt make any judgment but pointed out some experience of my own with my urghur driver in shanghai.

that's what he thinks he is. are u saying that he is not allowed to say that he is chinese even tho he wanna do that?

are u not giving him freedom to say he is chinese?

1. I never said "he was not allowed to say that he is chinese even tho he wanna do that"

2. He may very well  be what you say he is. The point wasn't about that. Besides, you said yourself:

well said coolstorm. but the thing i find troublesome about the official People's Republic of China logic is that they use two opposite sides of a similar argument to assert their territorial claims. When talking about taiwan, they bring up this "one blood one culture one people" thing to assert that it can never be split from china; then when the topic shifts to Tibet or "xinjiang" (i prefer eastern turkestan) or inner mongolia and they say, "well these people are different culturally and ethnically but they are still all chinese, forever". please just be honest and say, our army is big so we are getting away with it. it is ridiculous to assert like some chinese people do that china has some sort of an inherent legitimacy over all these places like no other country; i would like to hear you explain why the mongolian government in ulan bator cannot say "one blood one culture one peopls" to claim inner mongolia, if it were not for tha fact that chinese industrial and military capacity prevents them.

mongolian, manchurian chinese have been incorporated into the han culture in many areas.

yet, the han population in all the four ARs is at a level that these areas cannot be categorized as areas under dominate non-han cultural influence but muilti-ethical areas within the influence of the han chinese culture.

for example, the han population in xinjiang is bigger than the turkish population. the turkist population in xinjiang, although might be described as non han, is to the greatest extent a minority group within china. they can call themselves a minority or non-han chinese. but they are to the furthest extent a minority group within the boarder of china.

it's like the case of california and indian reservations in the us where the latino or indian population or culture is greater than that of the white americans. however, it is part of the united states instead of mexico or a native indian nation although ca used to be part of mexico. i am not forcing the turkish population to call themselves ethic chinese. they have the right to call themselves urghur just like the indians in america can insist on calling themselves the only americans and calling other white americans non-americans but they are to the furthest extent minority groups and citizens of the us.

the minority groups in china might not be ethic chinese but they are citizens of china, meaning that they are chinese by nationality not ethicity.

however, compared to tibet, i do think that the chinese have a more undeniable and absolutely legitimate claim of soverignty over taiwan. i can understand when a tibetan says he is not an ethic chinese but i cannot tolerate when a han chinese in taiwan, a descendant of our great huangdi, says he is not chinese.

but again, the han population or cultural influence in the ARs has reached a level that inner mongolia, manchuria have been incorporated to the mainstream of china while tibet and xinjiang on the other hand are under great han cultural influence that the han culture has become dominate.

All the citizens of the PRC are "Chinese" just like how all the citizens of Turkey are "Turkish", how all the citizens of Iran are "Iranian" and how all the citizens of the USA are "American".

On the Uyghur-Uzbek similarities: they both speak dialects of the Eastern Turkic Group and they both are sedentary peoples.

I dont' know whether it could be true or not, but some people say that they (Chinese)  think they can say so because of their unovercomable sense of inferiority because they know that they were always ruled by non-chinese people since the San Huan U Di period up until 1949, when they finally managed to construct PRC and ROC (Wow, almost for 3000 thousand years or more????).

It's just like "Now its our turn, unless you speak Han Chinese, you are reactionary, splittist, capitalist, spies of imperialist world and terrorist", like that.

I dont know whether that guys opinion is true or not, but in so far as Uighr situation is concerned, it seems the situation is quite true. 

I'll not let this thread turn into a Chinese-nonChinese arguement.

"I dont know whether that guys opinion is true or not, but in so far as Uighr situation is concerned, it seems the situation is quite true. "

Sure its true for anyone that are completely blind to historical background.