Were Ogedei and Tolui turks?

Did your grandfather Ulun-Dulun say it?     

They were Mongols.

By the way, blitz, how did you conclude like this? Please explain us your logical conclusions step by step, how you reach such ideas about others...

In those days, calling a Mongol Turkic, would be an insult I think . By Turks, Secret History of Mongolia refers to Orkhon Turks (Tu-c'hueh).

We should precisely call them with their tribe names. THEY WERE MONGOLIAN.  They were from the Borjigin clan of the Mongolian tribe.

In the beginning says Onon:

The Mongols were a small nomadic tribe in the area of Ergon and Kolen Na' ur. This Mongol tribe moved to the Keluren, Onon, and Tula districts around the years following 970, and was one of the many tribal peoples shifting about nomadically during this period. The people of the felt walled tents were the Tatars, the Onggirads, the Kereyids, the Naimans, the Tayichi'uds,and the Merkids. All these groups spoke a language akin to that of the Mongols, but were only included in the cathegory of Mongols after they had been conquered by, or pledged alliance to, the Mongol tribe.

Kereyids and Naymans were included in the Turkic Ulus while Mongolian tribe, Merkit tribe and ithers are in the Mongolian Ulus by current historians.

But if we want to be precise and consult secret history of Mongolia, they all spoke akin languages.

They were sure the same people, but I do not think we should include them to Turkic Ulus. There must be a general definition.

Ask your turkic brother Aygucu Tonyukuk, how he can conclude that Ogedei and Tolui were turks. Of course, they were mongols, sons of great Ghengis.

You turks claim that mongolian history is part of turkic history because both mongols and turks ware nomads and lived in neighborhood. But you forget that mongols are very different from turks.

Have the mongols ever claimed that Seldjuk's, Qwaresm's, Kharakhanid's and Osman's history are part of mongolian history?

You turks ought to be ashamed of yourself!

We dont claim they are Turks or related with us. And we dont try to steal their history. We respect Mongols bud, just take it easy...

Blitz you do not read what I have written.

Aygucu is wrong, yes Mongolians were Mongolian, but  Turks and Mongolians were not different. Read my quote from Urgunge Onon. You should analyze Mongolian steps well. Some are called Turkic because ruled by Orhun Turks. Some became Mongolised, as Urgunge Onon says, because they were subjugated to Mongolian tribe. There are many tribes and one becomes stronger, renames them with her name, that' s it...

Origins of many tribes are not strongly related to each other in Chinese sources, not only Mongols and Orkhun Turks. I do not know but I have never read a source of Xiong nu being a proto Turkic, proved by strict facts.

Grousset writes, Mongols are the inhabitants and Turks immigrated from the west. And I know some claims, we are the real inhabitors, Mongols immigrated from east.

But Onon is very very precise, does not waste time with theories.

Kereyits and Naimans who are considered to be Turk spoke akin languages with the small Mongolian tribe.

In that era, this was a tribal name, not a people name like Orkhun Turks.

It is true Mongolians are Mongolian, i will not call them Turk. That is a wrong thing, calling them Turkic. But were they the same, Onon says so.

National borders are drawn by seas, mountains, great rivers, etc... Even if they are from different origins (and we will never learn this), they lived together, mixed up for thousand years.

These hundreds of tribes sure lived isolated from each other. But when some got stronger ruled the others, isolation from the ruling tribe finished.

Tribes were Hsiung Nufied, Xienpified, Tu' chuehfied (Turkified in other words ) and Mongolified. Onon says it and with a very clear language. And says, these neigboring tribes spoke "akin" language.

Dilaect differences are very normal, if they are not ruled by other, they lived isolated. BUT THEY WERE RULED by others, all were ruled by others...

No tribe except Mongols were Mongols before Mongols subjugated them.

Take good care Emre,

Mehmet

If you look at Secret HIstory of Mongols, there are many footnotes saying zzz means yyy in Orkhun Turkish dialect.