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Your most strange, excentric and crazy countryman

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Topic: Your most strange, excentric and crazy countryman
Posted By: Mosquito
Subject: Your most strange, excentric and crazy countryman
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 18:45

Lets collect here the list of most strange, weird and crazy people ever born in our countries.

As Im polish, it was quite easy for me to find the most suitable candidate to the title of the most strange, excentric and crazy man ever born in Poland. Obviously it was count Jan Potocki. Author of incredible book "The manuscript found in Saragossa", traveler, soldier and scientist.

He died committing suicide. He belived that he is a werewolf and shot himself with the silver bullet which was blessed by the priest.

Here is an article about his life which comes from:

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/140_potocki.shtml - http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/140_potocki.shtml

THE MYSTICAL COUNT

Polish aristocrat turned Oriental wanderer, Count Jan Potocki was a child of the Enlightenment drawn to the mysticism of the Illuminati and Rosicrucians. GARY LACHMAN examines the strange life and even stranger death of the author of The Saragossa Manuscript.

Most English readers know the eccentric Count Jan Potocki as the author of one of the strangest works of 19th-century European literature, The Manuscript Found In Saragossa. The Saragossa Manuscript – as it is often called – is a weird farrago of stories within stories, with an overall supernatural bent, modelled in many ways on The Arabian Nights. Over a period of 66 days, the young Walloon officer Alphonse van Worden recounts his adventures with gypsies, cabbalists, demons, corpses, astrologers, the Wandering Jew and secret societies. The work has rightly earned Potocki a place in the ranks of the great writers of supernatural fiction. But for every child in Potocki’s native Poland, he is something more.

Born in 1761 to one of Poland’s wealthiest aristocratic families, by the end of his life the famed traveller, ethnologist, linguist and fantasist had become something of a superman. In an insatiable quest for knowledge, Potocki combined Enlightenment rationalism with a Romantic appetite for the strange and uncanny. Fantastic journeys, political intrigue and arcane scholarship filled a career that can be best described as ‘Baron Munchausen meets Marco Polo’.

Educated at Geneva and Lausanne, the young Count received a solid grounding in classical knowledge and soon revealed an astonishing capacity for languages, of which he spoke eight fluently, including Arabic. Then came training at the Vienna Academy of Military Engineering, followed by a stint of service to the Knights of Malta, which included a sea battle against the Barbary corsairs.Potocki travelled widely at this time, making his way across western Europe as well as journeying to Tunisia, Constantinople, Egypt and Morocco. In Morocco he tried unsuccessfully to locate a manuscript of the original Arabian Nights, which enjoyed something of a craze in 18th-century Europe. While in Constantinople, he observed the traditional storytellers plying their trade. Their exotic accounts of adventure and mystery inspired him to turn his hand to a tale or two, which he included in his lively writings about his journeys. In Constantinople he also met Osman, his Turkish valet who, from then on, accompanied the Count everywhere for the rest of his life. Potocki also took to wearing Oriental dress at this time and was often seen in fez or burnous. Along with his travel writings, Potocki pursued historical, cultural and linguistic research wherever he found himself, thereby helping to found the discipline of ethnology.

In the mid-1780s, Potocki found himself in Paris, where he hobnobbed with Enlightenment figures in the salons and cafés of pre-Revolutionary France. It was here that he became involved in strange mystical intrigues, which some conspiracy theorists, like the splenetic Abbé Barruel, believed were responsible for the Revolution itself. This was the Paris of Cagliostro, Swedenborg and Mesmer, of Adam Weishaupt (left) and the Bavarian Illuminati, of cabbalism, séances, and Freemasonry, where followers of Martinez de Pasqually and the Order of the Elect Cohens mixed with the weird novelist Jacques Cazotte and the hermetic philosopher Louis Claude Saint-Martin.

In this atmosphere of magic, mysticism and secret societies, the young Potocki was intoxicated by the heady brew of esotericism and progress in a way that would later inform his single masterpiece. But it may have been more than the seeds of literature that captivated him at this time. In 1780, the infamous ‘black magician’ Cagliostro opened a lodge of his Egyptian Rite Freemasonry in Warsaw. Although throughout his life he advocated an inconsistent array of political beliefs, there’s strong reason to suspect that the young Potocki became a Mason in Warsaw then, and that his period in Paris was filled with secret plots to overthrow the monarchy and establish a ‘universal society’ of brotherhood and tolerance. Indeed, scenes and motifs of initiation and secret knowledge run through The Manuscript Found In Saragossa and one of its central figures – the Great Sheikh of the Gomelez family – is the head of a gigantic scheme that resembles the machinations of the Bavarian Illuminati. Potocki’s decision to set his bizarre novel against the wild beauty of the Spanish Sierra Morena may have been influenced by more than the fact that he passed through the area on his way back from Morocco.

In 1788, Potocki returned to Poland, setting up a printing press and publishing company and, a few years later, establishing the first free reading room in Warsaw. In 1790 he made an even greater impression on the Polish capital by being one of the first men to ascend in a balloon, floating over the ancient city in the company of the French æronaut Blanchard, the ubiquitous Osman and his dog, Lulu.

Unable to stay in one place for long, in the late 1790s Potocki found himself on a trek through the Caucasus. Here he learned the secret language of Circassian noblemen and threw himself into the study of the ancient cultures and beliefs of the Slavic people. During this time the Count wrote massive volumes on the history, archæology and languages of the area with imposing titles like Principles of Chronology for the Ages Anterior to the Olympiads. Then, in 1805, in the service of the Russian Tsar Alexander, he was the scientific adviser on an expedition to Peking. At that time China was still resistant to foreign influence and the emperor Yung-Yen turned Potocki back at Ulan Bator in Mongolia.
Unfazed, Potocki absorbed all he could about the customs and culture of the Mongolian people. Given his interest in esoteric matters, one wonders if he came across mention of the fabled underground city of Agartha, in later years the focus of the eccentric French occultist and Orientalist St-Yves d’Alveydre – see FT97:29 – as well as that of Potocki’s fellow Islamic enthusiast, René Guenon. Little is known of Potocki’s doings in Mongolia, but it would be surprising if he didn’t seek out its more exotic tales and fables. Themes of subterranean mysteries permeate The Manuscript Found In Saragossa, with hidden strongholds, buried treasure and initiatory caves, although these indeed are common tropes in accounts of esotericism.

In between ballooning over Warsaw or crossing the Gobi Desert, Potocki found time to turn his hand to literature. One effort, a series of vignettes entitled Parade, is a classic of Polish theatre. His other classic is, of course, The Manuscript Found In Saragossa. The book has a history as unusual and varied as that of its author. It’s believed Potocki began it in 1797, as a series of stories designed to entertain his first wife. It was completed in 1815, just before Potocki took his own life, blowing his brains out with a silver bullet. Legend has it that in his last years Potocki secluded himself in his castle at Uladowka on his Podolia estate. Here, he turned melancholy and bored, his health diminished and his disillusionment grew. The French Revolution had degenerated into a charnel house and the great dreams of the Illuminati dissolved with the rise of the dictator Napoleon. A scandal surrounding his divorce from his second wife – in which there were rumours of incest – also took its toll.

Alone, he gave way to morbid fantasies. The thought that he had become a werewolf obsessed him. Potocki is said to have taken the silver knob of a sugar bowl, formed in the shape of a strawberry, and filed this into a bullet, which he had blessed by the castle chaplain. Then on 20 November 1815 (or, depending on your source, 2 or 11 December), he put the bullet in his pistol, stuck the barrel in his mouth, and pulled the trigger, thus earning himself the sobriquet of being “the man who shot himself with a strawberry.”

In any event, Potocki published the first part of The Saragossa Manuscript – comprising the first 13 days of van Worden’s strange adventures – on his own printing press in 1804-05 and distributed it to friends. These, and the following ‘fifty-three days’, were written originally in French. Potocki is said to have earned some bad press from the literary establishment of his time for writing and speaking better French than Polish, and to this day there is some controversy over whether The Saragossa Manuscript is a work of Polish or French literature. The second section of the book was published in Paris in 1813, under the title Avadoro: Histoire Espagnole, being made up of tales of a gypsy chief who features in the novel.

In 1814, these two separate books were combined into a three volume edition that appeared in St Petersburg. After Potocki’s death, a Polish translation of the original French appeared in 1847. The original French edition was then lost, and the edition that appeared in Paris in 1989 is basically a translation of the Polish version back into French. A recent English edition is based on this French-Polish version.

Although printed editions were for the most part lost throughout the 19th Century, Potocki’s masterpiece was nevertheless easy plunder for writers like Washington Irving and another eccentric litterateur, the mad poet Gerard de Nerval, who was known to stroll the streets of Paris with a lobster on a leash. Irving and de Nerval were not alone in stealing copiously from Potocki’s fantastic treasure trove in order to meet the 19th-century demand for ‘oriental’ fictions. This appetite for ‘eastern’ tales of mystery and magic was sparked in many ways by the work of yet another eccentric writer, William Beckford, builder of the bizarre Gothic folly, Fonthill Abbey, and author of the decadently exotic novel Vathek, which Potocki would certainly have known.

Beckford was himself no stranger to the occult world of the Enlightenment, and Vathek shares with The Saragossa Manuscript a strikingly similar motif: a stairway of 1,500 steps. In Beckford’s Arabian nightmare the steps lead upwards, to the top of the Tower of the Caliph Vathek; in Potocki’s they lead down to a cave and the underworld. Beckford’s tale of oriental excess and demonic luxury is no more than a rich genius’s fantasy of forbidden lust and its wilful satisfaction. But for Potocki, the subterranean journey has the resonance of the initiatory rites and magical practices linked to the secret societies he penetrated in pre-
Revolutionary France.

For adventurous Europeans of the 19th century, the ‘East’ represented all that went beyond the staid morality of Christianity. Yet, if all Potocki wanted to do was add another ‘oriental’ fiction to the proliferation of ‘eastern’ tales that sprang up after Antoine Galland produced his French translation of The Arabian Nights in 1717, why would he set his phantasmagoric novel in Spain, an exceedingly Catholic country? The answer, I think, lies in Potocki’s possible involvement with the Bavarian Illuminati and the mystico-political intrigues of pre-Revolutionary France.

The secret society known as the Bavarian Illuminati began on 1 May 1776, the brainchild of one Adam Weishaupt, a professor of canonical law at Ingoldstat University in Bavaria. Weishaupt, drunk with the elixir of rationalism, had a vision of a free, egalitarian Europe, rid of the tyranny of the monarchies. To achieve this end, he became a Freemason in order to use the lodges’ vast network of contacts and hierarchies. Quickly his disciples infiltrated most other lodges – even Cagliostro, it is said, was an early convert.

Cagliostro, we know, opened a lodge of his Egyptian Rite Freemasonry in Warsaw in 1780. The Illuminati’s aim was to gain members among the rich and powerful of society, targeting aristocrats and noblemen of reformist views. I have suggested that Potocki may have been initiated into Masonry in Cagliostro’s Warsaw lodge. If so, and if Cagliostro was indeed a member of the Illuminati, then Potocki would be exactly the kind of individual they would seek to bring over to their side. The fact that Weishaupt claimed that Mohammed himself was an initiate of the society would certainly have piqued the young Count’s interest.

The themes of esoteric and political intrigue running through The Saragossa Manuscript have clear parallels with the aims of the Illuminati; but there are other links that strengthen the case for it being an Illuminist work. One is Potocki’s love of things Islamic.

In the 1500s, in the mountains of Afghanistan, an earlier ‘Illuminati’ rose up: the Roshaniya, or ‘Illuminated Ones’. With his passion for orientalism and arcane knowledge, it’s possible Potocki may have known of this cult. Led by ‘the sage of Illumination’, Bayezid Ansari, they claimed to be descendants of the ‘helpers of Mohammed’ after his flight from Mecca. According to some authorities, there are references that link this cult to a ‘House of Wisdom’ in Cairo, which existed in the 11th century. Mention of a ‘House of Wisdom’ links the Roshaniya to another Islamic secret society, the Assassins, who also spoke of a ‘House of Science’ located in Cairo. The Assassins’ reign of terror too began in the last years of the 11th century.

Archetypal mystical-political intriguers, the Assassins set the tone for the conspiracy theories that gathered around the Freemasons in the 19th century. As Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall wrote in his Geschichte der Assassinen: “As in the West, revolutionary societies arose from the bosom of the Freemasons, so in the East did the Assassins spring from the Ismaili sect.” Bayezid Ansari was said to have been inspired to create the Roshaniya – who, like the Assassins and Illuminati, aimed at gaining political control by subverting the status quo – by a meeting with an Ismaili missionary. The Roshaniya also practiced a form of meditation, known as khilwat or ‘silence’, an exercise said to stimulate supernatural abilities.

Bayezid exercised absolute control over his followers, as did the Old Man of the Mountain and Potocki’s Great Sheikh of the Gomelez. Preaching a doctrine similar to that famously atributed to the leader of the Assassins, Hassan ibn Saba – “Nothing is true, everything is permitted” – Bayezid was able to achieve considerable political power, with disciples and followers willing to commit all manner of crimes, including murder. As in Weishaupt’s Illuminati, women were employed by Bayezid as agents, their powers of seduction deemed to be more powerful means of persuasion than rational argument; in The Saragossa Manuscript this is echoed in Alphonse’s initiation by the Moorish sisters.
Eventually, Bayezid Ansari and his Roshaniya were eventually suppressed by the Moguls.

Yet another pre-Weishaupt ‘Illuminati’ flourished in Spain. In 1512 the sect of the Alumbrados, or ‘Illuminated Ones’, began in Guadalajara. It rose among the circles of Franciscan friars responsible for some of the first great works of mysticism to be published in Spain. The cult’s basic belief was in an ‘illumination by the Holy Spirit,’ a kind of gnosis that did away with the need for priest or church. Soon detected by the Spanish Inquisition, the cult existed in different forms until it was finally suppressed in 1623. Oddly enough, this same year saw strange notices announcing the arrival of yet another secret society, the Rosicrucians, in Paris. This may be more than a coincidence given the similarities between the practices of the Rosicrucians, the Alumbrados and certain Sufi sects; for example, the Alumbrados practiced a kind of intense mental concentration similar to the khilwat of the Roshaniya which they called “mental prayer.”

Rosicrucian symbolism abounds in Potocki’s masterpiece, most clearly in the scene in which Alphonse finds himself in a cave, illuminated by many lamps. There he discovers a massive vein of gold and the tools necessary to extract the precious metal. In the Fama Fraternitas of 1614 – one of the earliest Rosicrucian tracts – the authors promise anyone coming forth to join the society “more gold than both the Indies bring to the king of Spain.” Each day in the cave, Alphonse extracts a quantity of the metal equal to his weight. In Rosicrucian legend, Christian Rosenkruz, the mythical founder of the society, was buried in 1484, in a hidden tomb, after dying at the age of 106. In 1604, this tomb was said to have been discovered and, inside, his uncorrupted body lay in a seven-sided vault, lit by a powerful lamp. The Rosicrucians were
hermeticists, cabbalists and alchemists, but they shunned the vulgar idea of alchemy as a means of making material gold. The gold they sought was spiritual; clearly the gold that Alphonse mines is of a similar nature.

Although a Christian cult, the Alumbrados shared some of the erotic practices of the Illuminati and Roshaniya, as well as the Moorish sisters. When the Church finally crushed them, the Alumbrados were, like the Templars (also linked to the Illuminati), accused of sexual perversions. The cult was made up of priests and priestesses and combined a form of free-love with dramatic displays of mystical intoxication. Members were encouraged to induce ecstasies and trances and, like the Great Sheikh of the Gomelez, leaders of the Alumbrados demanded absolute obedience. In return they absolved their followers of all responsibility to secular and spiritual authorities. During the Inquisition’s trials, it turned out that many of the sects’ members were conversos, or New Christians, descendants of Jews converted to Christianity after the pogroms of 1391. Judaism, like Islam, attracted Potocki as an exotic alternative to the Christianity of his time; and the Spanish Jews were of course responsible for the great system of mystical and magical thought – the Cabbala – notions of which run throughout The Manuscript Found In Saragossa.

In setting his 19th-century ‘illuminated’ tale in Spain – the European land that for a time fell to the followers of the Prophet – Potocki, whose incredible erudition may well have uncovered Weishaupt’s predecessors, forged his own bonds with these earlier illuminists. In any event, The Manuscript Found In Saragossa displays the best virtues of the mystical Enlightenment: tolerance, curiosity, and a lively interest in the beliefs and practices of cultures outside the Christo-centric Europe of the time. If, in his last days, “the man who shot himself with a strawberry” succumbed to melancholy and despair, he nevertheless left us a manuscript full of wonder and magic.


Potocki’s masterpiece is a compendium of arcane symbolism and esoteric themes derived from Rosicrucionism, Illuminism and alchemy.

The Manuscript Found In Saragossa purports to be a document discovered in 1809 by a French soldier out looting after the fall of the Spanish city of Saragossa to the French and Polish armies. The manuscript recounts the strange adventures of another military officer, one Alphonse van Worden, who, some 40 years earlier, comes upon a weird crew of ghosts, magicians, dervishes, seductresses and sheikhs as he passes through the mountains of the Sierra Morena, on his way to rejoin his regiment in Madrid.

Ignoring warnings of the danger of crossing the mountains alone, van Worden’s troubles begin when he spends the night in a haunted inn. There he encounters two Moorish sisters, Emina and Zubeida, who easily seduce the young Alphonse. Enthralled by their charms, he nevertheless hesitates to accept their offer of marriage, since it would mean casting off his Christian beliefs and adopting the word of Islam (he also wonders if they are demons sent to turn him from the true path).

Nevertheless he is sufficiently taken with them to drink a potion from a magic cup that produces in him powerful and vivid dreams, in which he and the sisters enjoy the delights of the flesh. Alphonse is rudely awakened the next morning to find himself, not in the capacious bed of the inn, but in broad daylight, beneath a gallows he had seen the day before. The bodies of two bandits he had glimpsed on his journey are no longer hanging from the gibbet. They are lying beside him. With disgust, Alphonse realizes he has spent the night in the embrace of corpses. Thus begins his 66 day sojourn amidst weird and fantastic adventures.

I can only mention some of the many esoteric motifs that appear throughout the tales, as well as the encyclopædic philosophical discourses that accompany them. The gallows suggest the Tarot trump of the Hanged Man, a symbol of spiritual death and initiation – initiation rites and challenges appear in many forms throughout the novel. The weird adventures and tales within tales – in which Alphonse is often unsure whether he is awake, dreaming or under the influence of hashish – is a reminder of the ambiguous nature of ‘reality’. They also occupy the liminal space between sleep and consciousness, the hypnogogic realm of magic and the paranormal.

Several well known historical occult figures appear throughout the novel, like Apollonius of Tyana, Knorr von Rosenroth, and Simon Magus. Several
‘doublings’ also appear, such as the Celestial Twins, invoked by a student cabbalist, suggesting alchemical themes of integration as well as the esoteric notion of the doppelgänger or astral body. Many of the doublings are of a sexual character, suggesting strange erotic practices. The first of these – Alphonse’s encounter with Emina and Zubeida, whom he first meets in a cellar– is an indication of the uncertain terrain we are about to enter. These delightful but possibly dangerous twins are ‘subterraneans’, creatures of the underworld. They are also devotees of a strange, foreign faith.

As Joscelyn Godwin writes in The Theosophical Enlightement: “The initiatic journey to Islamic soil has been a repeated theme of European esotericism, ever since the Templars settled in Jerusalem and Christian Rosenkruz learnt his trade in Damascus.” What troubles the young Alphonse about his new found girlfriends – aside from the fact that they may really be the ghosts of the two bandits – is their enticements to abandon his Christian beliefs and adopt Islam, a horror that Potocki, with his obsession with all things Arabic, obviously didn’t share.




Replies:
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2005 at 20:28
You're not related are are you?

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Light blue touch paper and stand well back

http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk

http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk


Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 08:04
Micheal Jackson

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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 08:15
I have read that book by Potocki, long, long time ago, the only thing I can remember is the erotic scene with the two girls, no surprise there!

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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">


Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 08:28

Originally posted by Komnenos

I have read that book by Potocki, long, long time ago, the only thing I can remember is the erotic scene with the two girls, no surprise there!

Well, for me book is awesome and the movie is also cool.

But this is not literature thread. Lets talk about strange, weird and excentric people.

So Komnenos, your candidate from Germany is?



Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 14:14
King Louis II of Bavaria probably....

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Posted By: TJK
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 14:39

What about  baron von Münchhausen ?



Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 14:45
Reading temujin's post, I remembered Rudolf II von Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor 1576-1612, not strictly speaking a German, but anyway. He is one of strangest, most excentric and craziest of all my country men, "and that against some pretty stiff competition, as you can imagine". (A Beer for Cywr, if you can remember from which Blackadder episode that comes from!)

"Rudolf II was one of the most eccentric European monarchs of that or any other period. Rudolf collected dwarfs and had a regiment of giants in his army. He was surrounded by astrologers, and he was fascinated by games and codes and music. He was typical of the occult-oriented noblemen of this period and epitomized the liberated northern European prince. He was a patron of alchemy and supported the printing of alchemical literature." (From Wikipedia)



http://www.xs4all.nl/~kvenjb/madmonarchs/rudolf2/rudolf2_bio.htm - More Info on Rudolf II

Here is a portrait of him by Guiseppe Arcimboldo:



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[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">


Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 14:53
Originally posted by TJK

What about  baron von Münchhausen ?

i think he is an imaginary person only existent in novels. don't think its based on a real person.



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Posted By: TJK
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 15:16

I was always sure he is real person..

http://www.germanembassy-india.org/news/may97/07agn05.htm - http://www.germanembassy-india.org/news/may97/07agn05.htm



Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 15:34
mmh indeed, wikipedia also says he was a real person, but the question is, did he really believe in his own fabulous tales? most obviously he did not ride on cannonballs.

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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 16:00

Originally posted by Temujin

King Louis II of Bavaria probably....

how he was excentric? more details?



Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 16:52
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_II_of_Bavaria - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_II_of_Bavaria

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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 18:03

Well i found some similarities between those 3 men (M. Jackson is a different story).

All 3, Potocki, Louis II and Rudolf II were aristocrates. All 3 were catholics. From them Potocki was the biggest traveller but Rudolf II also made long (like for the 16th century) travel to Spain. All had rich imagination and each of them in the end of his life was somehow obsessed. Potocki thought that is a wereweolf, Luis II thought that is a son of Luis XIV of France. Rudolf II was rather more paranoid because for long time was afraid that someone wants to assasinate him. All 3 in the end of their life became recluses.

Somehow Michale Jackson also fits to this model. He is  a recluse for most of his life, as an artist he has some gifts and as the millionaire he is also some kind of novaday aristocrate.

For sure there are several things that all those 4 excentrics share together. Im not the psychologist or psychiatrist but does it mean that all such people are more or less similar? Take for example Lord Byron who also fits well to this model.



Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 18:11
Hmm, I can't really think of anyone. The weather has made us too rational and boring I suppose.


Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 18:43

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Hmm, I can't really think of anyone. The weather has made us too rational and boring I suppose.

Maybe Eric XIV, but he was rather simply mad than excentric.



Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 18:45
Damn thousand times, Antonio 15 nails Santa Anna.

This sucker named himself the Napoleon of the West.
When he lost his leg in 1838, he ordered to buried it with militar honors.

He impossed himself the tittle of Su Altesa Serenisima.

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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 18:50

doh, i just found that i mean "eccentric" not "excentric".

My english is unfortunatelly far from being good.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 18:59
I can't think of any Dutchman more eccentric than my former economics teacher.

For some reason the weirdest Dutchmen tend to emigrate to Germany, so perhaps Komnenos and Temujin can name some more eccentric Dutchmen.


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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 19:09

I just found that psychiatrists consider such behaviour as mental illness. So it seems that for them being eccentric is almost equal to being sick.

The Schizotypal Personality Disorder (StPD)

Essential Feature

The essential feature of StPD is a "e;pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior"e; (DSM-IV™, 1994, p. 641).

The schizotypal personality disorder was introduced in the DSM-III in 1980. The term schizotype was first used by Sandor Rado in 1953 as a combination of schizophrenic and genotype. The concept came from the awareness that there were nonpsychotic but eccentric and dysfunctional personalities who were considered to have attenuated expressions of the constitutional defect that underlay schizophrenia (Akhtar, 1992, pp. 260-261). Rado hypothesized that these schizotypal individuals had the same two constitutional defects that were found in schizophrenia, i.e., deficiency in integrating pleasurable experiences and a distorted awareness of the bodily self. The symptoms of StPD came from these two defects and included: chronic anhedonia and poor development of the pleasurable emotions; continual engulfment in emergency emotions, e.g. fear and rage; extreme sensitivity to rejection and loss of affection; feelings of alienation; a rudimentary sexual life; and, a propensity for cognitive disorganization under stress (Akhtar, 1992, p. 263).

Individuals with StPD:

  • may have ideas of reference;
  • be superstitious or preoccupied with paranormal phenomena;
  • feel they have special powers;
  • believe they have magical control over others;
  • experience perceptual alterations;
  • have loose and vague speech (without being incoherent);
  • be suspicious and have paranoid ideation;
  • be affectively inappropriate;
  • have odd and eccentric mannerisms;
  • experience interpersonal problems;
  • have few close friends; and,
  • have social anxiety that does not abate with time (DSM-IV™, 1994, pp. 641-642).

Schizotypal personality disorder encompasses a combination of peculiar behavior, speech, thought, and perception. Individuals with StPD are usually withdrawn and display eccentric beliefs, paranoid tendencies, idiosyncratic speech, perceptual illusion, unusual appearance, inappropriate affect, and social anxiety (Frances, 1995, p. 368).

Self-Image

Millon and Davis state that individuals with StPD evidence an estranged self-image; they see themselves as forlorn and alienated from the world. They ruminate about life's emptiness and meaninglessness. Many people with StPD see themselves as more dead than alive and threatened by nonbeing. To themselves, they seem insubstantial, foreign and disembodied (Millon & Davis, 1996, p. 626).

These individuals know that their relationships and their vocational experiences are prone to disruption and failure. They begin to isolate and increasingly see themselves as not fitting into the society in which they live. Feedback from others usually confirms that they do not experience the world as others do. They rarely can find affirmation or validation for themselves in their interactions with others.

View of Others: Relationships

Kantor notes that both the schizoid and schizotypal personality disorders show interpersonal reserve and semi-isolation. However, individuals with schizotypal personality disorder demonstrate strange and eccentric beliefs and habit patterns. However, the negative symptoms of social withdrawal and constricted affect may be as pronounced as those observed in many patients with schizophrenia.

Oldham describes individuals with StPD as shy, aloof, and withdrawn; they have difficulty communicating and are estranged from people (Oldham, 1990, p. 260). They are loners who experience intense social anxiety associated with distrust rather than a negative self-appraisal (Sperry, 1995, p. 191). These individuals fear being controlled by others but imagine that they can magically influence people directly or indirectly. They want to be left alone; their interpersonal baseline position is one of hostile withdrawal and self-neglect (Benjamin, 1993, p. 356).

Interpersonal isolation and peculiarity become mutually exacerbating conditions. The more isolated persons with StPD are, the more peculiar they become. The more peculiar they become, the more they are interpersonally maladroit and isolated.

Schizotypal Personality Disorder Behavior

Individuals with StPD show a variety of persistent and prominent eccentricities of behavior, thought, and perception that mirror, but fall short of, clinical schizophrenia (Millon & Davis, 1996, p. 613). They are socially gauche and are perceived by others as bizarre, odd, or aberrant. Many individuals with StPD dress in an unusual manner that attracts attention (sometimes bewilderment, sometimes amusement) (Millon & Davis, 1996, p. 624).

These individuals are unable to differentiate the salient from the tangential causing them to attend to a different aspect of an event or interpret events differently than others, e.g., they may digress into a discussion of Mexican political corruption when another guest compliments the hostess on the chili served for dinner. They will also ascribe special significance to incidental events, e.g. the Mexican dinner theme might indicate some significant event about to occur in that country. The overall impact of this variance in attention, interpretation, or attribution of meaning to everyday events renders them odd and peculiar to observers (Millon & Davis, 1996, p. 625).

All of the personality disorders have an inherent tendency to live in the past, or in fantasy, with too little input from the here and now. This produces a characteristic infantile quality in these individuals (Kantor, 1992, p. 36). To this, in StPD, is added an inclination to create illogical theories that are wishful, capricious, magical, and mysterious. These odd beliefs are "e;soft"e; delusions in that they are modest, trivial, low key, and surrealistic; they create a dreamy eccentricity in individuals with StPD (Kantor, p. 75). Oldham (1990, p. 260) suggests that people with StPD need to believe that they have extraordinary, supernatural powers in order to give meaning to their impoverished sense of self. Millon & Davis (1996, p. 626) propose that StPDs are overwhelmed by the dread of total disintegration and nonexistence; the self-made reality of superstition, suspicion, and illusion counter the threat of non-being.



Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 19:16

But for the USA the biggest eccentric could have been Joshua Abraham Norton, who called himself Emperor of the United States. He "suspended the Constitution and dissolved both the Republican and the Democratic political parties on the grounds that 'their existence engendered dissensions.' "

"Emperor Norton, who always wore a blue military uniform with gold epaulettes, patrolled the streets of San Francisco for more than 20 years, never missed a session of the state Senate and was clearly loved by his subjects. When he died in 1880, the San Francisco Chronicle ran the headline, "Le Roi Est Mort," and 30,000 mourners attended his funeral. "

This article claims that one for 10.000 people is an eccentric:

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/02.15.96/eccentric-9607.html - http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/02.15.96/eccentric-96 07.html



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 19:16
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

I can't think of any Dutchman more eccentric than my former economics teacher.

On second thoughts I do know one:
(I'm not referring to the Smurfs, those are Belgian)

Someone who earns money by sining a song about the Smurfs in three (Dutch, German and Spanish) different languages has to be eccentric.


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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 19:19
Originally posted by Mosquito


Maybe Eric XIV, but he was rather simply mad than excentric.


Yep, considered him, but as you say he simply was a nutcase. He didn't start as one though.

Gustav IV Adolf had some eccenttric tendencies, showing up in Charles XII's 100 year old uniform to prove how good he was as a commander.


Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 19:20

Originally posted by Mixcoatl

For some reason the weirdest Dutchmen tend to emigrate to Germany, so perhaps Komnenos and Temujin can name some more eccentric Dutchmen.

Maybe Komnenos is a german eccentric because he is a German who emigrated to Holland?



Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2005 at 19:36

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Yep, considered him, but as you say he simply was a nutcase. He didn't start as one though.

Gustav IV Adolf had some eccenttric tendencies, showing up in Charles XII's 100 year old uniform to prove how good he was as a commander.

Dont worry Styrbiorn. In my not very long life I met the people who belived that all the Swedes are eccentrics



Posted By: Quetzalcoatl
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 07:49

 

 

Marquis De sade the most perverted sonofa that has walked the earth. He even have a word name after him "Sadism". His obssession with sex willo shock even people of nowadays.

 Check this

From the age of 14 to 26 de Sade was in active military service, and participated in the Seven Years War. He married in 1763 Renée-Pélagie de Montreuil, the daughter of a high-ranking bourgeois family, but also began an affair with an actress and invited prostitutes to his house. In 1768 he held a prostitute called Rose Keller captive and abused her. The chief of the Paris vice squad warned brothels of de Sade - he was considered a mortal threat to prostitutes. In the following years de Sade was found guilty of all kinds of sexual crimes, and he managed to anger Mme. de Montreuil, his mother-in-law by seducting her younger daughter, Anne-Prospre, when she was visiting his medieval fortress at La Coste in Provence. The unabated de Sade had an orgy.

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/desade.htm - http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/desade.htm



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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 16:08

well, i have tried one of his books in the past and found it completelly disgusting.

Altough i wouldnt say that being pervert is the same thing as being eccentric.



Posted By: Quetzalcoatl
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 20:13
Originally posted by Mosquito

well, i have tried one of his books in the past and found it completelly disgusting.

Altough i wouldnt say that being pervert is the same thing as being eccentric.

 

 Yea he was also eccentric, strange  and crazy.  Take note too much freedom in everthing leads to perversion, too little freedom leads to oppression.



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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 20:20
Well, if you consider eating fekalia as eccentric he was eccentric. I remember that in the book iv read people during orgies were eating a lot of sh*t and debating which sh*t taste better.


Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2005 at 08:57
Vlad the Impaler

"One day, Vlad Dracula decided to cleanse his Kingdom of those he considered to be lazy and unproductive, those who suffered from illness, a handicap, or were simply born in poverty.  He decreed that no one should go hungry in his Kingdom, and invited all the poor, unfortunate souls who tainted his concept of what society should be to a banquet in the great hall in Tirgoviste. Once he felt his "guests" had been well fed, not to mention drunk and complacent, Vlad made his appearance, asking them how they would enjoy never having to feel the pain of hunger ever again, or if they wished to never have to worry about anything ever again, to be without a care in the world. Of course, their reply was enthusiastic, so he obliged, ordering his men to board up the hall, which was then set ablaze.  No one escaped."

Hitler don't succeded.

"Vlad Dracula's treatment of his own subjects paled in comparison to the atrocities he committed against his enemies, and any who opposed him.  On St. Bartholomew's Day, he impaled 30,000 merchants for disobeying trade laws, having their bodies left to rot outside the city walls as a reminder of what would happen to any who disobeyed him. "

Stalin was a child

"Rumours abound that Vlad also ate the flesh, and drank the blood of his enemies, often holding dinner parties next to the freshly impaled.  He was very proud of his work, and anyone who showed disdain while looking upon the thousands of putrefying corpses would soon suffer the same fate.  Vlad liked to arrange the impaled in circular patterns, the length of the stakes determined by the victim's rank; this way, wealthy, or powerful opponents would plainly see they were not above the law.  Impalements were carried out in a variety of ways. During his reign, Vlad Dracula also had people decapitated, had their eyes gouged out, had them skinned alive, boiled, burnt, dismembered, eviscerated, or sometimes just physically disfigured for his own amusement.  In one particular incident, Turkish ambassadors who had refused to remove their Phrygian caps in his presence were asked why they insulted him in such a manner. When they replied it was because their hats had to remain on their heads according to custom, he graciously honored their tradition by ordering their hats permanently nailed to their heads, never to be removed again. "

Marquis de Sade had too much advertise

"Vlad Dracula's tyranny was such that none dared break any laws in his land, for fear of being punished or killed.  He even had his mistress disemboweled publicly for having lied about being pregnant with his child.  Vlad enjoyed torturing and killing women, often mutilating their breasts and sexual organs in the process. He is even rumored to have forced mothers to eat their own babies."

Jack the Ripper - the small thinker

The rest is silance



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"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein


Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2009 at 10:16
As we got many new members, I was thinking about reviving this old topic.
 
Anyone knows more eccentric people from your countries?


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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche


Posted By: Ikki
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2010 at 17:21

Spain has a good list of excenctric and crazy people, some of the most famous are Juana La Loca, Lope de Aguirre or Dalí. I would center in Lope de Aguirre

Lope de Aguirre, el Loco (The Madman), 1510-1561
 
 
 
The letter of Aguirre to the King of Spain
 
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1561aguirre.html - http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1561aguirre.html
 
Love the end of this letter: "Son of your loyal Basque vassals, and I, rebel until death against you for your ingratitude."
 
 
 
And the trailer of the not so less crazy movie "Aguirre, the Wrath of God"
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q3D0h4xCro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q3D0h4xCro
 
 


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2010 at 19:08
I would suggest our current president! He promised "open debates" (on C-Span), as well the posting of new bills on the internet (C-span), for a few days, and a host of other promises he has yet to deliver!

Only a madman, would make such statements, and then ignore them!

But maybe a real "progressive" would not be bothered?

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2010 at 19:10
Addressed to "Ikki!;

It seems your mad man would be vicariously connected to either the Catalan Company or the Navaresse Company?

Your views?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Ikki
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2010 at 10:03
According to an old general history book i read: "The Catalan Company fought in Anatolia with the strong arm of a future Cortés", in most of their characteristics the Catalan Company and the "Huestes" of the American conquest was the same entity, a feudal product of the warlike enviroment of medieval Iberia. But they were diferent in several aspects, for example the almughavars was a kind of warrior more related to celtiberians than to men at arms; the catalan company had always in higher position to the King of Aragon, as did the conquistadors with the King of Castille, but they worked with other lords. The Catalan company expedition had two stages, the first one they were hired warriors (this wasn't never seen in América), the second one they were vassals of Aragon looking for new territories, very similar to conquistadors in the new world.
The navarrese company on the opposite was a pure mercenary company, they changed of supreme lords many times and was the typical free company of the later Middle Ages.
Aguirre was a rebel, this wasn't a question of money or because a lack of lord like happen with Ronins in Japan, he rejected his lord and didn't give his loyalty to anyone, in this sense he was unique, in a way that someone have said that he founded the first independent republic of América (in fact, a Monarchy).


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2011 at 16:17
To the powers of this site, the above post by daodaoaaa, etc., is spam and should be erased!

In response to the chieftain Ikki, I would ask if he/she has read any of my other postings concerning the acts of both the Catalans and the Navarrese, in Greece?

And, just what connections could either of these famous (at least to us) companies have had with either the "Knights of the Temple", or the "Knights of the Hospital", etc.?

The above is mostly related to the holdings of either one or the other of these religious orders, and the lands in both the Balkans, and in Greece/Macedonia!

As regards strange or excentric fellow country men, in the USA, I should merely refer one to one of America's most famous journalist! His name was made more famous by the "Sinking of the Maine" in Havana's harbor!

Perhaps some one can name him?

Just in case most of the readers of this posting are too lazy to do a little bit of investigation, the answer will be revealed below!

Regards,









"William Randolph Hearst, and his New York Journal newspaper!"

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2011 at 07:35
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

 


 


Marquis De sade the most perverted sonofa that has walked the earth. He even have a word name after him "Sadism". His obssession with sex willo shock even people of nowadays.


[IMG]http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/c/c7/190px-Marquis_de_sade.jpg">


 Check this


From the age of 14 to 26 de Sade was in active military service, and participated in the Seven Years War. He married in 1763 Ren�e-P�lagie de Montreuil, the daughter of a high-ranking bourgeois family, but also began an affair with an actress and invited prostitutes to his house. In 1768 he held a prostitute called Rose Keller captive and abused her. The chief of the Paris vice squad warned brothels of de Sade - he was considered a mortal threat to prostitutes. In the following years de Sade was found guilty of all kinds of sexual crimes, and he managed to anger Mme. de Montreuil, his mother-in-law by seducting her younger daughter, Anne-Prospre, when she was visiting his medieval fortress at La Coste in Provence. The unabated de Sade had an orgy.


http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/desade.htm - http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/desade.htm


Sounds like a great guy

-------------
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2011 at 08:00
I would suggest a person with the name George Orr, who has been known to artists as "The Mad Potter of Biloxi!"

Plenty of information can be found here from multiple sources.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=the%20mad%20potter%20of%20biloxi&pc=conduit&form=CONTLB&ptag=AAC509A359AFA44ECAEF&conlogo=CT2392836

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2011 at 08:29
Of course William Faulkner (Falkner), Tennessee Williams, Edgar A. Poe, and Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain), were also eccentric, but became very famous while alive.

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: luluxiu
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2011 at 01:14
Rudolph collected dwarfs and giants in his army regiment. He was surrounded by astrologers, he was fascinated by games and codes and music. He is the mystery of this period the typical aristocrat, has focused on the liberation of the Nordic Prince.
 
 
==============
 
Post edited by moderator for unauthorized spam link in signature block.
 
Centrix Vigilis


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