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Phoenicians

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mediterranean and Europe
Forum Discription: Greece, Macedon, Rome and other cultures such as Celtic and Germanic tribes
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37397
Printed Date: 15-Dec-2017 at 11:09
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Topic: Phoenicians
Posted By: Lee
Subject: Phoenicians
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2017 at 18:30
Phoenicians were merchants whom sailed all over the Mediterranean and the language they use is dialectic and a compressed form of Greek ,   reason for that, is too fit as much information on tablets, that they brought with them on ship  for stock taking and other merchandising business. 

If they used Greek, containing long words , they would need more tablet, that will weight them down,   the Ancient Egyptians had two language for similar reason,  They wrote Hieroglyphic on stone, but they used Heretic for writing down stories on Papyrus . 

Greek (Story telling)
Phoenician (  Trade )  

The patron deity of the Phoenicians is Melqart  ,   this name is identical with Hercules and Mercury of the Romans. 

MLQRT  מלךקרת
>MLKQRT > LKQRT > RKKLS   ' Her'kleez ' 
> MRKKRS >  ' Mercurius   '  * Merx 

Often times between Phoenician languages,  M/N  are added/taken away
in the front of words, so don't be fooled ,   compare Mars/Ares and Lac/Milk 

Linear B  ' PSDON '  (Po-se-da-wo-ne) 
 Psdwn > Ptdon > ptton > nptton > Npton > Neptune 

That is why Poseidon and Neptune are the same god.

Phoenicians are Europeans along with the Romans and Greeks ,  they all share the Alphabet.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/dna-sequencing-of-ancient-phoenician-remains-could-make-us-reconsider-the-history-of-human-movement-a7048046.html

This is the first ancient DNA to be obtained from Phoenician remains and the team's analysis shows that the man belonged to a rare European haplogroup—a genetic group with a common ancestor.



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Hope rises like a Phoenix



Replies:
Posted By: Sander
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2017 at 12:12
Originally posted by Lee

Phoenicians were merchants whom sailed all over the Mediterranean and the language they use is dialectic and a compressed form of Greek ,   reason for that, is too fit as much information on tablets, that they brought with them on ship  for stock taking and other merchandising business. 

If they used Greek, containing long words , they would need more tablet, that will weight them down,   the Ancient Egyptians had two language for similar reason,  They wrote Hieroglyphic on stone, but they used Heretic for writing down stories on Papyrus . 

Greek (Story telling)
Phoenician (  Trade )  

The patron deity of the Phoenicians is Melqart  ,   this name is identical with Hercules and Mercury of the Romans. 

MLQRT  מלךקרת
>MLKQRT > LKQRT > RKKLS   ' Her'kleez ' 
> MRKKRS >  ' Mercurius   '  * Merx 

Often times between Phoenician languages,  M/N  are added/taken away
in the front of words, so don't be fooled ,   compare Mars/Ares and Lac/Milk 

Linear B  ' PSDON '  (Po-se-da-wo-ne) 
 Psdwn > Ptdon > ptton > nptton > Npton > Neptune 

That is why Poseidon and Neptune are the same god.

Phoenicians are Europeans along with the Romans and Greeks ,  they all share the Alphabet.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/dna-sequencing-of-ancient-phoenician-remains-could-make-us-reconsider-the-history-of-human-movement-a7048046.html

This is the first ancient DNA to be obtained from Phoenician remains and the team's analysis shows that the man belonged to a rare European haplogroup—a genetic group with a common ancestor.


Phoenician is generally classified as a Semitic language.

http://https//www.britannica.com/topic/Phoenician-language - http://https://www.britannica.com/topic/Phoenician-language

So what do you mean? The Phoenician language is some form of Greek or that Phoenicians, besides speaking Phoenician, used some form of Greek for trading purposes ?


Star



Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2017 at 13:34
Originally posted by Sander

[QUOTE=Lee] 

So what do you mean? The Phoenician language is some form of Greek or that Phoenicians, besides speaking Phoenician, used some form of Greek for trading purposes ?


Star


Have you not noticed that Latin, Greek and Phoenician share an alphabet,  I have also  found cognates for hundreds of Phoenician words in Latin and Greek.    

The Phoenician word for Earth is  ארץ   the Greek cognate is ἔραζε  , Some words are identical in pronunciation, for example the Phoenician word for Measure is  משורה  Mesuwrah '   

Give me Phoenicians words and i will give you cognates. 

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=%CE%B3%CE%BB%E1%BF%B6%CF%83%CF%83%E1%BD%B1%CE%BD&la=greek - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=%CE%B3%CE%BB%E1%BF%B6%CF%83%CF%83%E1%BD%B1%CE%BD&la=greek






 




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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2017 at 14:34
Thanks Lee, some White-Super nationalistic Europeans wants to use Greece as origin of European Culture. But they don't query the origin of Greek Culture which is NearEast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchuniathon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanchuniathon
This is interesting.

Any Mtyh about "Phoenician Poseidon"  ???




Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2017 at 15:15
Poseidon is the god of the sea whom sends tempests, sea monsters and heavy rain ,   the Phoenician word for downpour   is 'Yabal ' > 'Diabolus '  > Devil   thus Poseidon became Satan,   who still holds his trident,   His Red depiction stems from the Myth of Cetus, after it was slain by Perseus / Moses,   It's blood turned the river red. 

The Phoenician word for Rain is 'GSM   גשמ   that is cognate with the words 'Chasm / Chaos '
also the word 'Cataclysm ' also cognate with Phoenician ' חתה גשמ  
 Devils Nephilim, Satan , all these words derive from words relating to the weather








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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 04:35
G"S"M=are you sure,Lee,this is a  weather?!?=Head-ing-ed=Chief-Settling-ed=Installing-ed-Book-ing-ed=Posting=Eminent presence-existence=survival-notice=record=legend is occupied-fulfilled=accomplished-performed=constructed=implemented by weather.
It could be definition of weather&time.


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Na"De"Na"J=From God=Worshiping =Praising God-Compensation=Refund=Tax-Cash originated-positioned-suited... Population=People-Mortality=Lethality-Action=Activity=Business=Trade=Culture(Ja)


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 04:51
And there is one truth Lee:Once we had spoken the same language which is reason for cohesion more than nationalism.Why do Asian roots make you so racists?!?Regards.Smile

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Na"De"Na"J=From God=Worshiping =Praising God-Compensation=Refund=Tax-Cash originated-positioned-suited... Population=People-Mortality=Lethality-Action=Activity=Business=Trade=Culture(Ja)


Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 12:07
The birth place of the Phoenician language is most likely Crete ,   Linear A,  Linear B and Cretan Hieroglyphics are the root languages.

Alexander the Great established dozens of Greek colonies in West India and that is the reason Sanskrit is very similar to Greek,  from that period forward the Vedas were written. 

The Minoan Eruption caused a  diaspora of  Minoans and they came upon the shores of Egypt and Canaan and they founded  Egyptian ( Hyksos) and Babylonian Kingdoms ( SES KU ), but also 
the Persians (Pelesgians) and Achaemenid ( Seers of Achaea )  ἀχαιοί μάντῖς .

Ancient Greek writers such as Homer & Hesiod point out that Persians (Perseus) and Medes (Medea)  descend from Greeks and the evidence is the similarities between the languages.  

The word for a Greek-Phoenician emmigrant would be  ἠπειρώτης   ( Hpeirotes ) or ἠπειρόω (hpeirow)  hence terms like Hebrew , Epirus, Habiru, Babylonian and  Hiberia ,   there is another Hiberia on the east coast of the Black Sea, that is mentioned in Greek story of Jason & the Argonaut.  






 


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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 12:58
Demoticos was predecessor of all of them,language of ancient
Egyptians.And their name is below my answer.


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Na"De"Na"J=From God=Worshiping =Praising God-Compensation=Refund=Tax-Cash originated-positioned-suited... Population=People-Mortality=Lethality-Action=Activity=Business=Trade=Culture(Ja)


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 13:11
Phoenician&Greek&Latin&..all other existing signs had been created by combination of them.Greek letters were first upgrade of Egyptian.Next was Latin where lot of curves in letters were simplified with pure geometrical line&half circle.It was practical upgrade that provides fast writing&recognition of letters&reading.Number of syllables was reduced on 23?!?Problem : There was not public education for plebs=people.Only elite new to read&write.

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Na"De"Na"J=From God=Worshiping =Praising God-Compensation=Refund=Tax-Cash originated-positioned-suited... Population=People-Mortality=Lethality-Action=Activity=Business=Trade=Culture(Ja)


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 13:13
Originally posted by Lee

The birth place of the Phoenician language is most likely Crete ,   Linear A,  Linear B and Cretan Hieroglyphics are the root languages.


Is it your theory or please share your source?




Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 13:33
https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/2015/04/28/comparison-between-the-paleo-hebrew-alphabets-and-hieratic-egyptian-the-phoenician-alphabet-click-to-enlarge/?wref=tp - https://linearbknossosmycenae.com/2015/04/28/comparison-between-the-paleo-hebrew-alphabets-and-hieratic-egyptian-the-phoenician-alphabet-click-to-enlarge/?wref=tp
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek - https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

They are plenty of resources on Linear B/ Greek .

Since Phoenician is the language of the Old Testament and most scholars in that subject are of the Abrahamic faith,  they won't dwell into that subject, they just assume the Phoenician language fell from the sky or was created in some desert were no one was living. 

I take one Greek word,  OIKOS,  which means House,   this was originally
written 'Woikos '   ( Ϝοἶκος ) ,  in  Linear B  'W I K '   B and W interchange,  K and T interchange
and thus  'WIK > BIT   ( The Phoenician word for House ) .

The word Daughter in Linear B is ' Tu-ka-te ,  this is the root word for the 
Latin word 'Filia  , Thugater (gk), thus the english word, but also the Hebrew. 

Tukate > Thugater (Greek)
Tukate > Tbkate > Tbkte > Tbhte > Bht  ( Phoenician) 
Tukate > Tfkate > Tfhda > Fghia > Filia   ( Latin ) 

The earliest detested form of  Zeus/Jehovah  is in Linear B

DI-WO ( Linear B)
> ZEU  ( Greek)
> IOV ( Latin)
> IEV ( Pheonician)
> TIW ( Norse)
> DIV  ( Sanskrit)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22527821 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22527821

'The Minoan Civilisation is Local in origin and NOT Imported from elsewhere'
-  Thus the culture was exported  

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/dna-sequencing-of-ancient-phoenician-remains-could-make-us-reconsider-the-history-of-human-movement-a7048046.html - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/dna-sequencing-of-ancient-phoenician-remains-could-make-us-reconsider-the-history-of-human-movement-a7048046.html
http://https://phys.org/news/2016-05-ancient-dna-phoenician-carthage-european.html - http://https://phys.org/news/2016-05-ancient-dna-phoenician-carthage-european.html

Ancient DNA study finds Phoenician from Carthage had European ancestry 

Genetically proven





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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 14:53
OIKOS  ( House )
WOIKOS   (  Digamma ) 
BIT  

OIKOS  
EIKL  ( Phoenician Word for Temple)
HIERON  ( Greek word for temple ) 

Dialectic letters
L - R 
H - E - K 
P - Q
W - V - B - U  
T - K - S - X 
N - M 
V - M 
G - L
O - G





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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 18:36
Originally posted by Lee

they just assume the Phoenician language fell from the sky or was created in some desert were no one was living. 

so Minoan language fell from the sky in to Crete


Originally posted by Lee

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22527821 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22527821

'The Minoan Civilisation is Local in origin and NOT Imported from elsewhere'
-  Thus the culture was exported  

I didn't understand that how can you figure out this kind of result.

This research proves the below statement not more.
"The Minoans are Europeans and are also related to present-day Cretans - on the maternal side."

also from your bbc link,
"There is evidence of cultural influence from Egypt to the Minoans and going the other way."


Originally posted by Lee


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/dna-sequencing-of-ancient-phoenician-remains-could-make-us-reconsider-the-history-of-human-movement-a7048046.html - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/dna-sequencing-of-ancient-phoenician-remains-could-make-us-reconsider-the-history-of-human-movement-a7048046.html
http://https://phys.org/news/2016-05-ancient-dna-phoenician-carthage-european.html - http://https://phys.org/news/2016-05-ancient-dna-phoenician-carthage-european.html

Ancient DNA study finds Phoenician from Carthage had European ancestry 

One sample from phonecian colony Cathage has U5b2c1 Mtdna which means European on the maternal side

National Geographic had  a topic about it. 




Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2017 at 19:11
The Sea people are primarily identified with various Greek tribes  such as Pelasgians,  Lycians,  Oscans and Danaoi  and they were evicted in the 11th century BCE  settling in Lower Canaan,  Philistine Bichrome pottery in that area derives from Mycenaean pottery.

Thus it seems that the Middle East and Africa was colonised by Greek tribes,  Hebrews
were Greek emigrants (hpeiru ), Philistines were colonists from the coast-lands of Greece and Crete also known as Pelasgians  ( η πάραλος γῇ ) .

- Greek Tribes- 
Amorite - Kimmerioi
Canaanite - Phoinikon
Gergash - Graikos
Hittite - Skuthia
Hivite - Axaioi
Jebus - Boiotoi
Perizzite - Phrugoi
Caphtor - Kuprioi
Philisti  - Pelasgoi 


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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2017 at 04:43
Originally posted by Lee

The Sea people are primarily identified with various Greek tribes  such as Pelasgians,  Lycians,  Oscans and Danaoi  and they were evicted in the 11th century BCE  settling in Lower Canaan,  Philistine Bichrome pottery in that area derives from Mycenaean pottery.

Actually, using word Greek for those ancient people are like calling Native American as Indian. So for pre-roman period using word ancient hellens is more rational.   

According to Heredot, yes mtyhical origin of Lycians is Crete. However in lungistic their language is close to Luwian not Hellens.  

About Pelasgian, Greeks called their language "barbaric"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Murray - Gilbert Murray  summarizes the derivation from pelas gē ("neighboring land"), current at his time: "If Pelasgoi is connected with πέλας, 'near', the word would mean 'neighbor' and would denote the nearest strange people to the invading Greeks". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians#cite_note-8 - [8]

Herodotus
In the Histories, the Greek historian Herodotus of Halicarnassus wrote, with uncertainty, about the language of the Pelasgians:[41]

I am unable to state with certainty what language the Pelasgians spoke, but we could consider the speech of the Pelasgians who still exist in settlements above Tyrrhenia in the city of Kreston, formerly neighbors to the Dorians who at that time lived in the land now called Thessaliotis; also the Pelasgians who once lived with the Athenians and then settled Plakia and Skylake in the Hellespont; and along with those who lived with all the other communities and were once Pelasgian but changed their names. If one can judge by this evidence, the Pelasgians spoke a barbarian language. And so, if the Pelasgian language was spoken in all these places, the people of Attica being originally Pelasgian, must have learned a new language when they became Hellenes. As a matter of fact, the people of Krestonia and Plakia no longer speak the same language, which shows that they continue to use the dialect they brought with them when they migrated to those lands.

Pelasgians are not Helenic, they are Helenized. Wink

The origion of Linear A is still unclear



Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2017 at 13:10
I was originally taught too believe that Hebrew  and Greek/Latin are unrelated language that developed entirely independently ,  If that were true, then it is impossible to find cognate between Latin, Greek and Hebrew.

I found cognate for hundreds of words,   some words are near identical.

The Greek word for Tongue is  γλωσσῶν  ( Glosson ) , in Hebrew
it is לָשׁוֹן ( Losson)  and also cognate with the word 'Listen'.

The Linear B word for Horse is  EQV   , the Hebrew word
for Horse-Hoof is  'EQB ' ,  Horse is KUK ,   in Latin it is EQUUS 
but in Greek it is IPPOS ,    knowing Q and P interchange like that is very important to know .

In Latin,   MARS is the God of War,  however in Greek it is ARES , but they
derive from Linear B 'A-RE'  ( Strife )  .   in Phoenician , the word for strife is MRI 
but also RIV (Rev/Rev) and related to the words Revolt / Rebel ,   in Phoenician
RIV is the same as MRI 

The Best example of the M prefix,  is the word 'Milk' , but derives from Latin
LAC , in Greek it is Glakt, Glaktos and Gala ,  in Hebrew it is GALAB (חָלָב).

The English word 'LIGHT' ,   the G is not pronounced thus it was originally
written LIOHT  but it is cognate with Greek 'LEVKON ' ( White) via auxiliary 
it is LEVON , pronounced  'Lavan   , which so happen to be the Phoenician word
for White and adding a 'Greek'  locative ending ών you get Lebanon. 

The Greek word for 'know' , is Eido ,  in Phoenician it is Yada ,  Latin it is Video.

The Phoenician word for Gold is  'Charuts , in Greek it is 'Chrusous /

Yehrah in Phoenician means Month,   Ora in Gk means 'Period of time
as in  'Year

I did noticed that Phoenician is closer to Latin then it is too Greek. 




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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2017 at 05:52
Lingustis is a sharp knife, you should be careful 

Some Examples;
Is Turkish Iranic or Semetic languages


Uralic Hungarian and Finnish is different.

Now Hungarian is Slavic.

Now Latin Romanian, Slavic Ukranian, Greek and Albanian are using same origin word ConfusedConfusedConfused

so I mean, I don't trust lungistic links too much. I know how tricky is it. As a Altaic language speker who uses lost of arabic words and who uses latin alphabet. Big smile





Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2017 at 15:57
In Arabic  'Qalbun means Heart,  in Ancient Greek , 'Kolpon' (κόλπον) can also mean Heart ,  they are many words in Arabic that are very similar to Greek. 

Pear  '  Fruit ' 
PRI  ( Hebrew)  
Opora ( Greek ) 
R and L interchange and
thus Opora becomes Opola > Apple  

The Arabic word for Liver is 'Kabad ' in Ancient Greek it is ἥπατος ' Hpatos '
 ( H-p-t > K-b-d )  

Arabic word 'mighty '  , is 'Jabber',   from Hebrew GBR,  from Greek KVR   ( κυρίῳ ) 
Gabriel in Greek is  ' κυρίῳ ἡλίου '

Allah  from ὁ̂ ἡλίου 
Kaaba from  κύβος 
Dajjal from διαβόλῳ
Jesus/Joshua/Joseph from Εὐσεϐής 

The Arabic word for Music  is Musiqaa,  from μουσικός ( Mousikos)  and the root
word of the Hebrew mashiyach ( Messiah)

What Music have to do with Messiah ?     They anoint with a musical instrument , the Ram's Horn
or QRN (رام قرن ) '  Cornet '.










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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2017 at 05:28
Originally posted by Lee

In Arabic  'Qalbun means Heart,  in Ancient Greek , 'Kolpon' (κόλπον) can also mean Heart ,  they are many words in Arabic that are very similar to Greek. 

Pear  '  Fruit ' 
PRI  ( Hebrew)  
Opora ( Greek ) 
R and L interchange and
thus Opora becomes Opola > Apple  

The Arabic word for Liver is 'Kabad ' in Ancient Greek it is ἥπατος ' Hpatos '
 ( H-p-t > K-b-d )  

Arabic word 'mighty '  , is 'Jabber',   from Hebrew GBR,  from Greek KVR   ( κυρίῳ ) 
Gabriel in Greek is  ' κυρίῳ ἡλίου '

Allah  from ὁ̂ ἡλίου 
Kaaba from  κύβος 
Dajjal from διαβόλῳ
Jesus/Joshua/Joseph from Εὐσεϐής 

The Arabic word for Music  is Musiqaa,  from μουσικός ( Mousikos)  and the root
word of the Hebrew mashiyach ( Messiah)

What Music have to do with Messiah ?     They anoint with a musical instrument , the Ram's Horn
or QRN (رام قرن ) '  Cornet '.



Of course there are some connections. But it is very complex.

Example: In found a connection between Arabic Old Hebrew and Greek. You said root is Hebrew.

Option 1: Yes origin is Hebrew and then it is passing Greek and Arabic
 
Option 2:Old Hebrew - Greek  and Arabic aren't root language and common root is an older language.
.
.
.
.
.
More and more Options








Posted By: Lee
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2017 at 10:20
Cretan Hieroglyphics,  Linear A and B are missing from those graphs

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Hope rises like a Phoenix


Posted By: Aeoli
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2017 at 13:53
Yes I know them but even Greek Heredout

http://www.ancientscripts.com/greek.html - http://www.ancientscripts.com/greek.html

"From the shape of the letters, it is clear that the Greeks adopted the alphabet the Phoenician script, mostly like during the late 9th century BCE. In fact, Greek historian Herotodus, who lived during the 5th century BCE, called the Greek letters "phoinikeia grammata" (φοινικήια γράμματα), which means Phoenician letters."


About Linear A
http://www.ancient.eu/Linear_A_Script/ - http://www.ancient.eu/Linear_A_Script/

Late in the 19th century CE, the English archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans published a paper named ‘Cretan pictographs and the prae-Phoenician script’, based on the study of a number of signs and short inscriptions found on Crete and mainland Greece. 

Sir Arthur says "prae-Phoenician script’" so What are the other theories about Linear A ? 



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