Print Page | Close Window

What were the most impressive societies pre-4000BC

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Archaeology & Anthropology
Forum Discription: Topics on archaeology and anthropology
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36905
Printed Date: 22-Oct-2017 at 04:17
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: What were the most impressive societies pre-4000BC
Posted By: rakovsky
Subject: What were the most impressive societies pre-4000BC
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 03:43
Writing came with the major civilizations of Egypt, Sumer, and the Indus valley in 3500-2500 BC. But what major, developed, impressive societies came before then?
The sites that I know of are:
  • Gobekli Tepe, Turkey, c. 8500 BC with its giant stonehenge rings
  • Jericho - one of world's oldest cities
  • Tel Halaf , Syria, 6,100 BC
  • Yonaguni, Japan, c.? (5000 BC?). There are engravings on Yonaguni island and claims of underwater cut away rock cliffs, predating the time when the area was underwater.
  • Carnac Stones, France and other sites in France and Britain, 4500 BC, megalithic stones
  • Malta c. 4000 BC with Megalithic temples, including underground ones
  • Ubaid culture - preceded the Sumerians
  • Dolmens in the Caucasus - c.4000-2000 BC
I know there are prehistoric "cultures" in southern Spain, the Balkans, and China, which had large settlements or primitive writing. There are stonehenges in South Africa and the Sahara.

Kercado Tumulus, Carnac
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnac_stones#/media/File:Tumulus_de_Kercado_2005_02.jpg


Did I miss any?





Replies:
Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 03:56
Wikipedia has this essay on Dolmens:
The oldest known dolmens are in Western Europe, where they were set in place around 7,000 years ago. ... They are generally all regarded as tombs or burial chambers, despite the absence of clear evidence for this. Human remains, sometimes accompanied by artifacts, have been found in or close to the dolmens which could be scientifically dated using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating - radiocarbon dating . However, it has been impossible to prove that these remains date from the time when the stones were originally set in place.


Dolmen in Ireland

The largest concentration of dolmens in the world is found on the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_peninsula - Korean peninsula .
Northern style dolmens stand above ground with a four sided chamber and a megalithic roof (also referred to as "table type"), while southern style dolmens are normally built into the ground and contain a stone chest or pit covered by a rock slab... Southern type dolmens are associated with burials but the reason for building northern style dolmens is uncertain. ...
Over 3,000 dolmens and other structures can be found in the North-Western https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus - Caucasus region in Russia, where more and more dolmens are discovered in the mountains each year. These dolmens are related to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maykop_culture - Maykop culture . This great city of dolmens was built along the shores of the Black Sea from Maykop down to Sochi. The inhabitants were metal workers. The dolmens were vaults or safes of stone, with a narrow circular entrance that could be tapped with a round screw of stone. Supposedly the dolmens were used to hide and protect metal objects: gold, silver, bronze, jewels and some other treasure.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen




Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 09:19
There is a problem/dispute with the ascribed dates and dating methods. If biblical is true then there are no or not many pre-4000 bc civilisations.
Take Catal Huyuk for example, it clearly comes after Nimrod the Hunter as evidenced by the Leopard Hunter & hunting evidences there. Yet the orthodox claim date before the Flood.
Stonehenge has Mycenaean links.
http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35946
4 rivers/lands of Eden = 4 world ages. Havilah is first.

If you go by orthodox or "traditional" dates then lists have included Jericho, Atlantis, Tiahuanaco/Peru, Sphinx (Schoch), Cretan/Knossos, Catal Huyuk, Indus Valley, Gobekli Tepe, Nakhicevan, Medzamon/Metsamor, Tartessos, Valley of Mexico, the MacKenzie 'High Arctic' "Cro-Magnid" high culture? "Hyperborean"/"Albion", Sumer (Babel), Egypt, Sialk / Elamite/Susa (confirmed by Genesis 10 meaning & position/order/number of the name Elam).

-----
Water fluoridation ("kool-aid", wormwood) wrecks disadvantaged peoples lives/health/ability.



Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 09:57
There are Dolmens in the North East US. NJ has at least 3 that I'm aware of.
There are also stone circles and many crypts and cairns as well.

New England Antiquities Research assoc.-

http://www.neara.org/index.php?start=4




-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 13:54
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

There is a problem/dispute with the ascribed dates and dating methods. If biblical is true then there are no or not many pre-4000 bc civilisations.
Take Catal Huyuk for example, it clearly comes after Nimrod the Hunter as evidenced by the Leopard Hunter & hunting evidences there. Yet the orthodox claim date before the Flood.
Stonehenge has Mycenaean links.
http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35946
4 rivers/lands of Eden = 4 world ages. Havilah is first.

As I understand it, the current Jewish calendar puts the world's Creation at about 3761 BC.
I imagine that Moses and the Biblical authors did conceive of the world that way, although some say that this is to make an oversimplication and over-literalization of the Bible writers' intent. The Bible nowhere says word for word "The world is only 3761 years old on the date of Jesus' birth". Theoretically, I suppose there could be a lot more that happened and many more years' passage between Adam's creation and the time of Noah's flood or the Tower of Babel.



If you go by orthodox or "traditional" dates then lists have included
Jericho,
Atlantis,
Tiahuanaco/Peru,
Sphinx (Schoch),
Cretan/Knossos,
Catal Huyuk,
Indus Valley,
Gobekli Tepe,
Nakhicevan,
Medzamon/Metsamor,

Tartessos,
Valley of Mexico,
the MacKenzie 'High Arctic' "Cro-Magnid" high culture?
"Hyperborean"/"Albion",
Sumer (Babel),
Egypt,
Sialk / Elamite/Susa (confirmed by Genesis 10 meaning & position/order/number of the name Elam).

-----
Water fluoridation ("kool-aid", wormwood) wrecks disadvantaged peoples lives/health/ability.


WOw you are familiar with lots of these.

This is Catalhuyek:
Çatalhöyük was a very large https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic - Neolithic and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic - Chalcolithic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-city - proto-city settlement in southern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia - Anatolia , which existed from approximately 7500 BC to 5700 BC, and flourished around 7000 BC.
A channel of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ar%C5%9Famba - Çarşamba river once flowed between the two mounds, and the settlement was built on alluvial clay which may have been favourable for early https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture - agriculture .
Excavation revealed 18 successive layers of buildings signifying various stages of the settlement and eras of history. The bottom layer of buildings signifies as early as 7500 BC while the top layer is of 5600 B.C.
In addition to extensive use of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_science - archaeological science , psychological and artistic interpretations of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol - symbolism of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_painting_in_Turkey - wall paintings have been employed.

[Restoration]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk


I can't find anything about "Medzamon OR Metsamo", except that it's in Armenia.

Nakhicevan didn't bring up anything,  and I didn't find much about Valley of Mexico sites from before say 2000 BC, except " The oldest known human settlement in the Valley of Mexico is located in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlapacoya_%28Mesoamerican_site%29 - Tlapacoya , located on what was the edge of Lake Chalco in the southeast corner of the valley in contemporary Mexico State. There is reliable archeological evidence to suggest that the site dates as far back as 12,000 BCE. After 10,000 BCE, the number of artifacts found increases significantly. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Mexico#First_human_habitation

Tartessos is interesting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartessos), but it sounds like it refers to the period when Greeks already had writing (c. 2500 BC or later), rather than the period before 3000 BC. But I think that there was a major prehistoric site of settlement in Spain.


Here is what I found on pre-3000 BC Spain:

The location of Perdigões, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reguengos_de_Monsaraz - Reguengos de Monsaraz , is thought to have been an important location. Twenty small ivory statues dating to 4,500 years BP have been discovered there since 2011. It has constructions dating back to about 5,500 years. It has a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necropolis - necropolis . Outside the location there is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromlech - cromlech . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-13 - [13] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almendres_Cromlech - Almendres Cromlech site, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vora - Évora , has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalith - megaliths from the late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_millennium_BC - 6th to the early 3rd millennium BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-14 - [14] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anta_Grande_do_Zambujeiro - Anta Grande do Zambujeiro , also in Évora, is dated between the early https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_millennium_BC - 4th and the mid 3rd millennium BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-15 - [15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-16 - [16] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen_of_Cunha_Baixa - Dolmen of Cunha Baixa , in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangualde_Municipality - Mangualde Municipality , is dated between 3000 and 2500 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-17 - [17] The Cave of Salemas was used as a burial ground during the Neolithic.

Chalcolithic (Copper Era)


The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture - Beaker culture was present in Iberia during the Chalcolithic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-hdp-18 - [18] A significant Chalcolithic archeological site in Portugal is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_of_Vila_Nova_de_S%C3%A3o_Pedro - Castro of Vila Nova de São Pedro . Other settlements from this period include Pedra do Ouro and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_of_Zambujal - Castro of Zambujal . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-hdp-18 - [18] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalith - megaliths were created during this period, having started earlier, during the late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_millennium_BC - 5th , and lasting until the early https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_millennium_BC - 2nd millennium BC .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia


So for Western Europe, we are looking at major sites in Corsica, Malta, southern France, Portugal, Northwest France, Britain, and Denmark.


Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 13:58
Originally posted by red clay

There are Dolmens in the North East US. NJ has at least 3 that I'm aware of.
There are also stone circles and many crypts and cairns as well.

New England Antiquities Research assoc.-

http://www.neara.org/index.php?start=4



Yes, it's interesting. And I think it's unusual for the Amerindians, especially before the time of the Mayans, in North America. It's interesting that this part of the US (New England) is facing western Europe, where such megaliths were common. Maybe there is a connection?

So this raises questions: How old exactly are the Northeast US megaliths and who built them (Western Europeans or Amerindians). Typically I think scholars are going to say that West Europeans didn't arrive until the Norse, and even then not significantly south of Maine. Like maybe the Norse explored the New England coast to New York and Long Island, but that's about it.


Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 14:07
Out of all these, it sounds like the most advanced may have been: Tel Halaf, Jericho, Gobekli Tepe, Catalhuyek.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 20:12
Originally posted by rakovsky

Originally posted by red clay

There are Dolmens in the North East US. NJ has at least 3 that I'm aware of.
There are also stone circles and many crypts and cairns as well.

New England Antiquities Research assoc.-

http://www.neara.org/index.php?start=4



Yes, it's interesting. And I think it's unusual for the Amerindians, especially before the time of the Mayans, in North America. It's interesting that this part of the US (New England) is facing western Europe, where such megaliths were common. Maybe there is a connection?

So this raises questions: How old exactly are the Northeast US megaliths and who built them (Western Europeans or Amerindians). Typically I think scholars are going to say that West Europeans didn't arrive until the Norse, and even then not significantly south of Maine. Like maybe the Norse explored the New England coast to New York and Long Island, but that's about it.


Actually "Megalithic" structures have been found from Maine to Brazil. 

And no, Ameridians were not responsible for them.  Using Archeao-Astronomy, some of the standing stones date to around 3800bce. 
Mystery hill in New Hampshire dates to about then.










-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 20:27
Pennsylvania has it's share of anomalies. follows are pics of inscribed stones.

http://www.neara.org/images/mulligan/knapp1.jpg



-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 20:40
Okay, so the software won't allow me to post pics. Go to the NEARA home page and go to the Gallery. Mass. has the most and the most interesting, but you'll see there are anomalous stone ruins and artifacts in many states.
I've been to many of these sites. Burnt Hill in Western Mass. is one of the most interesting.
It's long been accepted that the "Indians" didn't build these things. The people who built these are as unknown as the Megalithic builders in Europe.
Perhaps they are the same folks who summered here in NJ long before the Lenni arrived. The area I live in has been inhabited for at least 10,000 years. The Lenni didn't get here until approx. 1st cent ad.



-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 20:53
Yes, Burnt Hill and Mystery Hill are especially interesting. I would think it would be important to run DNA on the corpses buried within, say, 100 meters of these sites.

Perhaps these two sites may be comparable to those in Western Europe like Carnac, if indeed they all date to the period before 3500 BC.

Anyway, Gobekli Tepe and Catal Huyuk and Tel halaf, I suppose, are still the three most impressive sites from before 4000 BC, don't you think? Or have others been found from before 4000 BC that we haven't mentioned yet?


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 23:16
Sacsayhuaman and the culture that built what they built Cusco on. Predates the Inca by about 3000 years.



-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2016 at 23:29
Originally posted by rakovsky


Yes, Burnt Hill and Mystery Hill are especially interesting. I would think it would be important to run DNA on the corpses buried within, say, 100 meters of these sites. Perhaps these two sites may be comparable to those in Western Europe like Carnac, if indeed they all date to the period before 3500 BC. Anyway, Gobekli Tepe and Catal Huyuk and Tel halaf, I suppose, are still the three most impressive sites from before 4000 BC, don't you think? Or have others been found from before 4000 BC that we haven't mentioned yet?



To my knowledge, there has never been burials associated with either site found.



-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2016 at 01:01
I think that the Pruvian civilization started somewhere in 3500-3000 BC with Norte Chico, so I wouldn't add that to the list of those predating 4000 BC.
But thank you. Still got my eye out.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2016 at 05:58
Originally posted by rakovsky

As I understand it, the current Jewish calendar puts the world's Creation at about 3761 BC.
I imagine that Moses and the Biblical authors did conceive of the world that way, although some say that this is to make an oversimplication and over-literalization of the Bible writers' intent. The Bible nowhere says word for word "The world is only 3761 years old on the date of Jesus' birth". Theoretically, I suppose there could be a lot more that happened and many more years' passage between Adam's creation and the time of Noah's flood or the Tower of Babel.


This is Catalhuyek:
Çatalhöyük was a very large https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic - Neolithic and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic - Chalcolithic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-city - proto-city settlement in southern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia - Anatolia , which existed from approximately 7500 BC to 5700 BC, and flourished around 7000 BC.
A channel of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ar%C5%9Famba - Çarşamba river once flowed between the two mounds, and the settlement was built on alluvial clay which may have been favourable for early https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture - agriculture .
Excavation revealed 18 successive layers of buildings signifying various stages of the settlement and eras of history. The bottom layer of buildings signifies as early as 7500 BC while the top layer is of 5600 B.C.
In addition to extensive use of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeological_science - archaeological science , psychological and artistic interpretations of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbol - symbolism of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_painting_in_Turkey - wall paintings have been employed.
[Restoration]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk


I can't find anything about "Medzamon OR Metsamo", except that it's in Armenia.

Nakhicevan didn't bring up anything,  and I didn't find much about Valley of Mexico sites from before say 2000 BC, except " The oldest known human settlement in the Valley of Mexico is located in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlapacoya_%28Mesoamerican_site%29 - Tlapacoya , located on what was the edge of Lake Chalco in the southeast corner of the valley in contemporary Mexico State. There is reliable archeological evidence to suggest that the site dates as far back as 12,000 BCE. After 10,000 BCE, the number of artifacts found increases significantly. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_Mexico#First_human_habitation

Tartessos is interesting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartessos), but it sounds like it refers to the period when Greeks already had writing (c. 2500 BC or later), rather than the period before 3000 BC. But I think that there was a major prehistoric site of settlement in Spain.


Here is what I found on pre-3000 BC Spain:

The location of Perdigões, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reguengos_de_Monsaraz - Reguengos de Monsaraz , is thought to have been an important location. Twenty small ivory statues dating to 4,500 years BP have been discovered there since 2011. It has constructions dating back to about 5,500 years. It has a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necropolis - necropolis . Outside the location there is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cromlech - cromlech . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-13 - [13] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almendres_Cromlech - Almendres Cromlech site, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vora - Évora , has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalith - megaliths from the late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_millennium_BC - 6th to the early 3rd millennium BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-14 - [14] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anta_Grande_do_Zambujeiro - Anta Grande do Zambujeiro , also in Évora, is dated between the early https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_millennium_BC - 4th and the mid 3rd millennium BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-15 - [15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-16 - [16] The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen_of_Cunha_Baixa - Dolmen of Cunha Baixa , in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangualde_Municipality - Mangualde Municipality , is dated between 3000 and 2500 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-17 - [17] The Cave of Salemas was used as a burial ground during the Neolithic.
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture - Beaker culture was present in Iberia during the Chalcolithic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-hdp-18 - [18] A significant Chalcolithic archeological site in Portugal is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_of_Vila_Nova_de_S%C3%A3o_Pedro - Castro of Vila Nova de São Pedro . Other settlements from this period include Pedra do Ouro and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_of_Zambujal - Castro of Zambujal . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia#cite_note-hdp-18 - [18] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megalith - megaliths were created during this period, having started earlier, during the late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_millennium_BC - 5th , and lasting until the early https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_millennium_BC - 2nd millennium BC .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Iberia


So for Western Europe, we are looking at major sites in Corsica, Malta, southern France, Portugal, Northwest France, Britain, and Denmark.


I think that the Pruvian civilization started somewhere in 3500-3000 BC with Norte Chico, so I wouldn't add that to the list of those predating 4000 BC.
But thank you. Still got my eye out.



Sorry sometimes my brain stupidly goes off on the wrong track, i sort-of forgot about the 4000 bc and was just listing the claimed/supposed oldest ones i've seen or heard of.

As i said the problem is with ascribed dates and dating systems. Consider:

Zacatenco & Ticoman (Ajusco/Xitla) in Mexico supposed  dates range from "8000 yrs [ago/old]" to "between 3000 to 1000 bc".
Tiahuanaco date ranged from "12000th yr" (Posnansky) or "15538/15000 bc or 9300 bc" or  "10500/10050/10000 bc or 4500/4050/4000 bc" (Muller) or "1200 bc" or "1580/1500 bc" &/or "2134 bc" or "ad 400-1000".
Long night in Peruvian range between 1650 (Hoeh) to 1400/1394 bc (Sitchin).
Antarctica last ice free date was drastically suddenly reduced  some years ago (ref Flem-Ath).
Atlantis date ranges from 9000s bc to 1200s bc [to Persian times].
Thera date has ranged from ... to ... bc.

Egyptian beginning ranges from 36525 yrs bc to 11542 to 3000 bc.
Menes' date has ranged from 11340 yrs bc to 5869 bc to 3400 bc to 3100 bc to 3000 bc (Shaw/new current orthodox) to 2300 yrs to 2224 bc [to Newton's?].
Zoser's/Djoser's date has ranged from 4900s/4700s bc to 3712/3700 bc to 2900s to c2600s bc.
Sekhemhet date has ranged from 600yrs older than 2640s, to 2640s [to 1800s (our own new proven)].
Khufu's reign has ranged from 13 yrs to 63 yrs.
Great Pyramid date has ranged from [?73000 to] 10000s bc to 2500 bc.
Sphinx age has ranged from [?8000s bc] to [2500 bc].
SIP/Hyksos period length has ranged from 1660 yrs to 200 yrs to 108/103 yrs (refs SS VanDine, etc).
Phoenix age has ranged from 7000 yrs to 1500 yrs to 660 yrs to 500 yrs to 400 yrs to 250 yrs (refs JC Cooper, etc).

Biblical creation date has ranged from 46,026bce (NWT), 20000bc (bunsen), 12500bc (crawford), 11013bc (camping), 10000 yrs bp/bc (creationists), nearly7000yrs/6984/6484bc [bc] (alphonsus) to 4004 (Ussher) to 3761 bc (Jewish).
Preflood world  date ranges from [2656 yrs] to 1656 yrs.
Abraham date has ranged from 2300 bc to 1900s bc
Moses date has ranged from 1600s bc to 1200s bc (refs Oxford, Mercatante, NIV Study Bible, etc).
A generation can be either 100 yrs, 40 yrs, 33/30 yrs.

Metsamor/Medzamon & Nakhichevan are in Armenia area.

Tartessos is claimed to be 7000 years [bc] in classical sources.

Tepe Gawra?

There was a site in [nw?] Iran found a few years ago?

There have been traces of humans & culture/civilisation found in all periods of the Geological Timescale, eg 'Forbidden Archaeology' by Cremo & Thompson.

Already said that Catal Huyuk must date after or close to Nimrod the Hunter.

Beaker is just before Wessex & 3rd Stonehenge which has Mycenaean links found at site.
Tartessos-Kittim meanings in Genesis 10 connect with megalithic/heliolithic.

[I have not got the time and health and water and situation to fully answer dispute about biblical history (I have already posted many evidences/proofs  online in last number of years which everyone just seem to ignore).
There are of course possible doubts about the exact correct biblical chronology total years, it could be possible for a longer time long 10000 years, but when one really studies the biblical and historical evidences as i have it doesn't seem very likely that the long time is possble.
If biblical can supposedly "over simplify or over literalize" then why can't modern go over the other/opposite way. True scholars objectively look to see if there is or is not a real match in hostory, rather than assuming/asserting/theorising/guessing/opinionating.
I will take ancient accounts sequence of events over modern dates theories anyday.
No where can orthodox give proof of their ascribed/asserted dates, their dating methods are proven unreliable, the lengths and gaps of/between "prehistoric" periods are far to massive.
The modern and ancient confirm the bibical when true synchronisms are found.
We have proven synchronisms of Joseph with 3rd-4th dynasty and Moses with 12th dynasty.
Oxford scholar showed that Sumerian confirms 1656 yrs preflood.
Biblical certainly seems to confirm that Sumerian/"Babel/Babylon" is the first post-Flood culture (or else Havilah).
"4 cities" great city of Asshur in Genesis 10 seems to match Tiahuanaco/Atlantis-city http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36071&PID=716272 .
Japhethites of Genesis 10 seem to match European prehistory http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35946 ]

-----
Water fluoridation ("kool-aid", wormwood) wrecks disadvantaged peoples (like me) lives/health/ability.



Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2016 at 16:15
"Zacatenco & Ticoman (Ajusco/Xitla) in Mexico supposed  dates range from "8000 yrs [ago/old]" to "between 3000 to 1000 bc"." ~Arthur

Unfortunately I could not find out any information on these sites online, except:
"TICOMAN: To the north-western part of the basin, we will begin to find evidence of human occupation with influence of the Olmec culture, which was in full bloom in the Gulf of Mexico. During the Early Formative, in Ayotla phases (. 1.250 to 1000 BC) and Spring (. 1.000 to 800 BC), stand villagers sites like Tlatilco in Naucalpan; The Arbolillo in Cuautepec and south island Tlapacoya in Chalco."
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticomán

I am really looking something where there is at least some acknowledgement by some of the mainstream scholars for dates of sites before 4000 BC, like we have with Catalhuyek or Gobekli Tepe or Carnac or Tel Halaf or Jericho.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2016 at 08:29
I know that what you were looking for. But my point all along from the start was that the "mainstream scholars consensus" ascribed dates & dating methods are proven highly disputable. Eg Ticoman has ranged from 8000 ya/yo to 1250/1000/800 bc in "mainstream scholars" opinions within the last 100 yrs.
Halaf is next after basal neolithic in Mesopotamian/Syrian sites.... Catal Huyuk leopard skin hunter etc clearly connects with Nimrod. Megalithic is linked with meaning of name Tarshish(-Kittim) "region of stone, [etc]". Stonehenge has Mycenaean links found at/near the site. Azilian found in lowest level under Beersheba.
If you limit yourself just to "[update] mainstream scholars [consenus]" and online (& wiki) and ascribed dates then you won't get a full true view.
Not sure what the supposed dates are for Mehrgarh, Lungshan / Yangshao, Jarmo, Helwan, Tepe Gawra, Jomon, (pre-)Harappa, Ganj Dareh, Choga Mami, Sesklo / Dhimini, Jiroft culture, Anau, Sialk, Valdivia, Andronovo, Yamnaya, Starcevo, Kuro-Araxes, Merimde, Fayum, Knossos, Hacilar, Mersin, etc? There is a book by MacKie  or McKay on megalithic sites/cultures of s/w Europe.
[I would have had all these mapped out in reference papers of my own if this regime hadn't of messed my studies life up for the last 1-2+ years, and if i hadn't of lost 15 years studies notes in a crisis from lead poisoning. So as it is i can only  casually chaotically post tiny bits.]
There is said to be very ancient remains at/near Medzamon/Metsamor but i have no other details.
The oldest farming/civilisation area in Americas is Peru/Bolivia.
I tend to group sites into historical cultural areas not just individual sites.
It depends too on what you mean by "society" & "most  impressive".

http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,1065157

-----
Water fluoridation ("kool-aid", wormwood) wrecks disadvantaged peoples (like me) lives/health/ability.



Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 20-Oct-2016 at 20:45
Wikipedia dates Gobekli Tepe as follows:

Structures identified with the succeeding period, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_A - Pre-Pottery Neolithic A (PPNA), have been dated to the 10th millennium BCE. Remains of smaller buildings identified as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_B - Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB) and dating from the 9th millennium BCE have also been unearthed.

A number of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating - radiocarbon dates have been published:



Ua-19561 enclosure C 7560–7370
Ua-19562 enclosure B 8280–7970
Hd-20025 Layer III 9110–8620
Hd-20036 Layer III 9130–8800
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe#Importance



Wikipedia mentions a few sites that are from the same period or later than Gobekli Tepe:

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevali_Cori - Nevalı Çori , a Neolithic settlement also excavated by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Archaeological_Institute - German Archaeological Institute and submerged by the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atat%C3%BCrk_Dam - Atatürk Dam since 1992, is 500 years younger. Its T-shaped pillars are considerably smaller, and its shrine was located inside a village.
  • The roughly contemporary architecture at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho - Jericho is devoid of artistic merit or large-scale sculpture, and
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87atalh%C3%B6y%C3%BCk - Çatalhöyük , perhaps the most famous Anatolian Neolithic village, is 2,000 years later.
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe#Importance

Another site in that region is Cayonu, but it's later:

  • Çayönü is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic - Neolithic settlement in southeastern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey - Turkey inhabited around 7200 to 6600 BC. It is located forty kilometres north-west of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyarbak%C4%B1r - Diyarbakır , at the foot of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_Mountains - Taurus mountains. It lies near the Boğazçay, a tributary of the upper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigris - Tigris River and the Bestakot, an intermittent stream.
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%87ay%C3%B6n%C3%BC

The Daily Mail article on Gobekli Tepe proposes that human sacrifice at Cayonu was an indirect result of the devastation of the land from millenia of agriculture:

A few years ago, archaeologists at nearby Cayonu unearthed a hoard of human skulls. They were found under an altar-like slab, stained with human blood. No one is sure, but this may be the earliest evidence for human sacrifice: one of the most inexplicable of human behaviours and one that could have evolved only in the face of terrible societal stress. Experts may argue over the evidence at Cayonu. But what no one denies is that human sacrifice took place in this region, spreading to Palestine, Canaan and Israel. Archaeological evidence suggests that victims were killed in huge death pits, children were buried alive in jars, others roasted in vast bronze bowls. These are almost incomprehensible acts, unless you understand that the people had learned to fear their gods, having been cast out of paradise.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html#ixzz4NfxpBYPV - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html#ixzz4NfxpBYPV




Posted By: rakovsky
Date Posted: 24-Oct-2016 at 14:20

This seems to be the oldest structure:


Theopetra cave, 21,000 BC:




  • Caves in the vicinity of Metéora were inhabited continuously between 50,000 and 5,000 years ago. The oldest known example of a man-made structure, a stone wall that blocked two-thirds of the entrance to the Theopetra Cave, was constructed 23,000 years ago, probably as a barrier against cold winds – the Earth was experiencing an https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age - ice age at the time – and many https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic - Paleolithic and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic - Neolithic artifacts have been found within the caves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteora#cite_note-Radiocarbon-5 - [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteora#cite_note-6 - [6]
  • The cave of Theopetra is located 4 kilometres (2.5 mi) from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalambaka - Kalambaka . Its uniqueness from an archeological perspective is that in it contains, within a single site, the records of two greatly significant cultural transitions: The replacement of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthals - Neanderthals by modern humans, and the later transition from hunter-gathering to farming after the end of the last https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_period - Ice Age . The cave consists of an immense 500 square metres (5,400 sq ft) rectangular chamber at the foot of a limestone hill, which rises to the northeast above the village of Theopetra, with an entrance 17 metres (56 ft) wide by 3 metres (9.8 ft) high. It lies at the foot of the Chasia mountain range, which forms the natural boundary between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thessaly - Thessaly and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28Greece%29 - Macedonia prefectures, while the Lithaios River, a tributary of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineios_River_%28Thessaly%29 - Pineios River , flows in front of the cave. The small Lithaios River flowing literally on the doorsteps of the cave meant that cave dwellers had always easy access to fresh, clean water without the need to cover daily long distances to find it.
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteora


Tower of Jericho, 8000 BC





Posted By: chrishills helios
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2016 at 05:36
Yeah I used that article as my 1st layer for my paper until I found http://https://fastessay.com/college-paper-writing-service.html - college essays online . Didnt' know it was so hard to find more info about dolmens online. Had to order, ugh


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2016 at 08:02
you have topics about the dolmens and secret stones also in this forum.Enjoy your ride here.Smile



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com