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A Discovery of an Early Slavic shrine?

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Archaeology & Anthropology
Forum Discription: Topics on archaeology and anthropology
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35817
Printed Date: 14-Dec-2017 at 08:12
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Topic: A Discovery of an Early Slavic shrine?
Posted By: Amortus
Subject: A Discovery of an Early Slavic shrine?
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 10:41
Looks like a Slavic shrine was discovered in a cave Slovenia, with petroglyphs (purportedly) depicting the god Perun (or, to be precise, its local form Kresnik).

https://www.academia.edu/16257755/Cave_of_Iapodes_and_its_petroglyphs_an_Early_Slavic_shrine_of_Perun_Kresnik - Here is an article about it.

Extant (original) Slavic shrines and images of Slavic gods are really rare, so this could be an importand find - if confirmed ... Smile

Any thoughts?



Replies:
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 14:55
Originally posted by Amortus



Looks like a Slavic shrine was discovered in a cave Slovenia, with petroglyphs (purportedly) depicting the god Perun (or, to be precise, its local form Kresnik).

https://www.academia.edu/16257755/Cave_of_Iapodes_and_its_petroglyphs_an_Early_Slavic_shrine_of_Perun_Kresnik - Here is an article about it.Extant (original) Slavic shrines and images of Slavic gods are really rare, so this could be an importand find - if confirmed ...
Smile
Any thoughts?




A remarkable find.

Ntl..the article sums it well....


''What the image represents remains a mystery, due to its isolation, rather crude form and lack of finds in the cave. No datable evidence was ever found in the cave or its vicinity, and no systematic archaeological work has been undertaken as of today. Hrobat Virloget discusses the possibility that the image could represent a horseman, the crossed lines at the end of the hand picturing the horse’s head, and the ‘legs’ actually being the horse. The other interpretation by the same author is the carved image is of an archer, the crossed lines representing the bow, or of a thrower – throwing a spear or a lightning bolt. Of course, the possibility of the image being a (relatively) recent addition, a boundary mark or a simple..... ,in absence of contemporary and/or datable artifacts, remains.''


Consequently the supposition it is a shrine or a depiction of Perun is premature. In fishing terms that's the 'bait'. Whether it becomes the 'catch of the day' remains to be seen.

Otoh, I wish the research and those involved well...and continued success.



-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Amortus
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 16:48
Smile ... true.

However I believe this section of the article (the image "remaining a mystery" etc.) refers to conclusions in the Hrobat Virloget (2014) paper (link can be found in the References) - and this article is a more detailed study presenting more evidence pointing to both Slavic origin of the petroglyphs and of the cave being a Slavic ritual place.

Sure, it is still far from being definitly proved that the image is of Perun or Kresnik, but the story (story!) seems both compelling (I am biased, of course, for many reasons) and beautiful (and you know how sometimes beauty equals truth Wink ...).

So - we wait.


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2015 at 18:43
Yes...indeed. But what bothers me is that there is, imo, no recognized symbols associated with Perun...and while not a scenario breaker...as these would obviously develope over time. Those there are recognized not as neolithic representations of his ax or thunder-lightning etc.

Tho interps vary and the circular shapes and unadorned scratches might represent any number of things. The traditional 7 pointed thundermark etc are not clearly indicated here.

Keep us posted on this.

CV

-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Amortus
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2015 at 04:55
The circular "sun wheels" are (well, could be!) "Slavic enough" - since the only other people living there were Iapodes and Romans. Even the crudeness of the carvings attest to that (at least to some newly arrived, less skilled people).

The seven pointed (actually six ponted) thundermarks are rarely found outside of the Eastern Slavs regions, and "thunder axes" are rare even there. The local "avatar" of Perun, Kresnik, has features that bear (at least) some similarities with the petroglyphs in the cave ("sun-wheels", "antlers", etc.)

But yes, everything can be resolved only with a detailed and exhaustive archaeological study. Some hands need to get dirty - soon! Wink 

Will post as soon as something new emerges!



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