Do clothes make the man?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
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URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35514
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 20:25
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Topic: Do clothes make the man?
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Subject: Do clothes make the man?
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2015 at 21:22
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"Clothes make the man" refers to the fact that when people see a person look well-dressed, they assumed that person is a professional, capable, and (in the old days) rich.
Therefore, a man had to dress like how he wanted to be perceived. Do clothes really make the man? Or does the man make the clothes? |
Replies:
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2015 at 22:00
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Depends on the contextual era. And to a greater or lesser degree the status one enjoyed at any one given time in a society. Whether it was considered more important to demonstrate one's power or wealth or influence through dress...or accomplishment/s.
Sometimes both were necessary as a result of societal/clan/tribal class development; influence and position...a necessity if you will; whether one was to be believed or appreciated or..even heard. Me? Personally? It's accomplishment. But even I wouldn't dress like a field Cav Scout if I was ordered to appear before the President...assuming of course he didn't come visit me in the field with the troops. Because there...that's the dress appropriate for my mission. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2015 at 20:34
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One of the most noted figure's in men's clothing is Beau Brummel.
George Bryan Brummel (1778-1840). better known as Beau Brummel, was a dashing young man of Regency England. After Prince George (the future King George IV) became Prince Regent, he became friends with Beau Brummel. Brummel popularized trousers. He also established the mode for dark coats and an elaborately knotted cravat. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 20:24
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www.gentlemansgazette.com mentioned:
The Duke of Windsor (Edward VIII) was the namesake for the famous Windsor knot. When he was the Prince of Wales, the Duke was chastised by his father for wearing brown shoes with a navy suit. Others started to emulate him and the look took off. He also abolished the frock coat and introduced the morning coat. |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2015 at 23:55
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& Hugo Boss designed the dashingly rakish Nazi era uniforms..
Hitler, who fancied himself as an artiste, liked to review, & sign off as approved, with changes- as he saw fit - on all kinds of things like that.. yet he personally dressed modestly, unlike Goering.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 19-Jun-2015 at 20:33
| Here is picture of Edward, The Prince of Wales wearing a top hat. http://cardcow.com/387011/winning-sm...-prince-Edward... |
Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2015 at 03:38
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Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2015 at 04:09
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Cor blimey - young Davey don't 'alf look like Lord bleedin' Snot 'isself.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2015 at 22:11
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Throughout history, at times, clothes literally made the man, or indeed broke them if they transgressed sumptuary laws. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2015 at 23:16
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Yeah, & esp' if they offered protection against weaponry..
Even wearing purple dyed items was reserved by the Poohbahs - on pain of severe punishment for any transgression.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2015 at 20:36
| Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens, the writer) had fourteen white lounge suits made so he could wear a clean one every day. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2015 at 22:16
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Pictures of King Louis XIV of France often show him in high heels with big hair.
Louis XIV was five feet, four inches tall. Wearing heels and a wig made Louis look taller. |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2015 at 05:51
Somtimes even the kings need some "make up" to look serious. On the other hand, when you are looking for a good lawyer, which one of those two will you choose? (both are lawyers) 
 ------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2015 at 22:53
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I can't understand why HRH Prince William, allowed himself to go bald.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2015 at 20:03
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In the 17th and 18th centuries, a jabot consisted of cambric or lace edging sewn to both sides of the front opening of a man's shirt, partially visible through a vest worn over it. This style arose around 1650.
Jabots made of lace and hanging loose from the neck were an essential component of upper class, male fashion in the baroque period. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2015 at 21:03
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I used the mid levels 1960-70's version of the Vietnam era LBE followed by variants of the precursor MOLLE. To include the ALICE.
Stand green/OD/Arctic and desert patterns made predominantly from heavy canvas eventually giving way to the PALS system and much lighter and weather resistant materials-fasteners straps etc.. All good; some better than others. And in general, the most in demand items necessary, to be worn, by any class, of well fashioned soldiers of the era. Ie. late 20th into the 21st ce. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2015 at 21:31
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Yeah, CV, I recall that transitional period ( as noted in the Clint Eastwood classic USMC-based 'Heartbreak Ridge') where US forces started
looking somewhat like Waffen-SS troopers, & drew comments from the WW2 vets to the effect of - 'We used to shoot guys who looked like that - on sight". & that of course, was one of the reasons for the rapid withdrawal of the early US Army camo-patterned uniforms - post D-day.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2015 at 21:12
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King Edward VII of Great Britain's taste in clothes was generally conservative.
He attempted to prevent the demise of the frock coat and to revive the fashion of wearing knee-breeches with evening dress. He refused to wear a Panama had and derided those who did. Edward continued to wear a silk hat while riding in Rotten Row long after this was considered old-fashioned. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2015 at 08:47
For a space of time only.... as the OD's and Tigers and Hot weather OD's gave way eventually to BDU's... (woodland camo)-(Desert Camo Uniforms- a BDU variant). To: the ACU; (Army combat Uniform and it's variants in camo patterns to include the Flame Resistant ACU). Camo is here to stay no matter the earlier identifications. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2015 at 17:38
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I forgot to mention, of all of them; I personally liked the style, lightweight material and comfort of the 'jungle fatigues'. ie Tropical Combat Uniform.
Thou the OG107 ie. OD's had various types based on who produced them and or whether they were customized. What's usually never mentioned in relation to uniforms. Is the sometimes prohibitive cost that a soldier might incur, beyond a certain rank, when the issue or replacement was not free. Certainly beyond the rank of E5 Sergeant, when a soldier received a once a year or occasional specific clothing allowance..this could be quite high especially for dress uniforms. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2015 at 17:49
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CV, by chance the John Wayne 'Nam classic, 'Green Berets' was on TV,
& it featured the curious 'Tiger Stripes' combat camo outfit, which was quite a contrast with the basic green. Was this ever an 'official' US forces camo pattern, or just a 'movie' thing? Curiously, the Israeli defence forces seem to have always stuck with the plain un-patterned look.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2015 at 20:19
Yes and no. No they were never an official US issue item. Yes they were authorized for use by USMAAG personnel (US insignia) attached to ARVN units. Predominately SF advisors wore them. Tho eventually they were used by LRRPS and SEALS and Snipers as well. They are probably a derivative of an earlier French pattern used in the 50's.... during their colonial periods and conflicts; and were in use by ARVN Marines and Ranger units. US forces were authorized 'local requisition' from SV producers. These were replaced in country with the ERDL uniform; itself a precursor to BDU. Iirc, Aussies and Kiwis SF used them as well. But don't quote me. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2015 at 02:50
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Thanks again CV.. & as it happens, I have the tattered remnant of a ex-'Nam service 'Frog Skin' USMC `40s-50s 'jungle fatigue' pattern tunic that was issued to certain Kiwi operatives - for covert/stealthy creeping about in the jungle.. I've held on to it for ~40 years - since it was given to me as a kid, by a relative in the services who knew I was keen on such stuff... These 'unofficial' items were issued as wartime-only/in theatre use, as was explained to me at the time, - so it corroborates your input well too, CV.. Oddly enough, I have seen that same old-school USMC 'Frog Skin' pattern worn by Red Chinese PLA troops over the years too, & instantly recognised it.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2015 at 04:23
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I had a book on all this stuff but I think it's in storage..and to get it I'd have to go down to Central Texas. But here's a fairly apt link.
It covers your 'frog skin' remnant as well. http://camopedia.org/index.php?title=USA (copy and post to your browser). As for local procurement for useage and or testing...it's been a mainstay for decades...years ago in the HTLD test bed period, viz the 9th Infantry division circa 83-89...hundreds if not thousands of local 'off shelf' products were purchased. For testing and possible adoption in the Army's various TOE's'TDA's. I remember we even tested off the shelf 'Wolverine' brand heavy sports boots; until the Army adopted the new version of the black boot which then gave way to the a whole host of various replacements. Hats... until we returned to the BDU and now ACU 'patrol style' were also in a constant flux...and I'm not even going to start on the Beret fiasco. HTLD= High technology Light Division. TOE= Table of Organization and Equipment. TDA= Table of Distribution and Allowance. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 28-Jun-2015 at 17:15
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Cheers, CV..
That's a good camo site, & I see the 'John Wayne' T-S is specifically noted there too.. ------------- Be Modest In Thyself.. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2015 at 20:29
| A doublet was a snug-fitting jacket that was shaped and fitted to the man's body which was worn in Western Europe from the late Middle Ages up to the mid-17th century. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 08-Jul-2015 at 20:30
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An ascot tie is a narrow neckband with wide pointed wings, traditionally made of pale grey patterned silk.
In the 1880s, among the upper-middle-class in Europe men began to wear a more loosely tied version for formal events with daytime full dress in frock coats or with morning coats. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 16-Jul-2015 at 20:34
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During the Elizabethan time period, the era of Queen Elizabeth I of England, one's clothes and fashion defined one's social status.
It was common for a man of the upper class to wear a fine silk hat with a feather inside. |
Posted By: LeopoldPhilippe
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2015 at 20:35
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The classic black bow tie as part of "black tie" attire dates back to 1886, when the tuxedo was invented by Pierre Lorillard V.
Previously, the fashion was to wear tailcoats with white bow ties. |
Posted By: Trice
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2019 at 02:50
| i think a person's style does say a lot about him, yes |