Freedom for Palestine
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30280
Printed Date: 23-Apr-2024 at 16:13
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Freedom for Palestine
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: Freedom for Palestine
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2011 at 19:09
After 60 years of oppression Palestine is on the cusp of regaining its independence. Despite Israel's bullying and America's futile demands, it seems most of the world (including Russia, China and the EU) supports the Palestinian people ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Replies:
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2011 at 01:29
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Freedom for Palestine = Long Live Terrorism! ------------- 
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2011 at 12:56
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There's been terrorism in the Middle East since Israel (a state founded through bombing and killing) stole the Palestinians' land. Once the Muslim descendents of the biblical Jews have a country of their own, Islamist terrorism will lose much of its remaining legitimacy as the majority of its supporters will no longer have a reason to hate America and her allies ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2011 at 14:49
Hi Cyrus I agree and I would like to see peace and some type of settlement between Istrael and Palestine but I don't see it happening real soon. http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/arabs-only-know-one-word-of-english-no/ - http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/arabs-only-know-one-word-of-english-no/ ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2011 at 16:09
As long as Hamas exsists and perps their perp...no peace...no state. Good for defense contractors.
And shareholders. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2011 at 19:02
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Hamas aren't much of a threat to us. They exist mostly as a militia protecting ordinary Palestinians as the Fatah-controlled organisations are unable to do so. Their attacks on Israel are largely a reaction to the illegal settlements, done out of frustration at the international community's refusal to help them. It's the foreign groups like Al-Qaeda we need to worry about. They use the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as an excuse for their own twisted ideology: creating a theocratic empire to challenge western progress ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2011 at 19:58
 no comment ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 24-Sep-2011 at 04:04
Any primary or proxie of terror is a threat. Any proxie and advocate of nation state destruction and antisemitism is a threat.
No ducking it. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 24-Sep-2011 at 06:22
I hope that UN can give a decision as a neutral  because they didn't do anything about these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 24-Sep-2011 at 15:31
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There has never been any independent country named Palestine, if Muslims really think about freedom for peoples in the region and it not a matter of religious hatred toward Jews, then they can give this freedom to Kurds, Balochs and some other people who fight for freedom for hundreds of years, instead of killing them!! -------------
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 24-Sep-2011 at 20:24
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At one time there was no Ireland, no Poland and no Bangladesh. However, the people considered themselves a nation and, after years of struggle, regained their independence. Everyone has the right to self-rule: should Iraq collapse into anarchy the Kurds would be wise to create their own independent state ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2011 at 14:16
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Palestinians have chosen the worst way to gain independence, it will be a disaster for the whole world, if terrorists kill innocent people and gain their aims, I believe freedom for a people whose heroes are some suicide bombers who blast children's buses, is insecurity for other people in the region and even in the world. -------------
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2011 at 16:32
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for there is no evil and good side in palestine. I don't know any nation who won't do Palestinian did ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2011 at 19:25
Including Israel. For years they have committed human rights abuses and attacked critics with allegations of antisemitism ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 10:05
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I strongly agree with Nick, the creation of a Palestinian state is legitimate and it is more so given that it is being backed by many of the members of the UN. If we went back just 60 years ago, we would have clearly seen that Palestinians were the only sovereign millet in the region before 1917 when general Allenby conquered palestine. Jews were living amongst the Palestinians and before the Zionist movement, there was no Anti-Semitism. It is the bold and cheeky proclamation that Jews should return from all over the world, displace the Palestinians and rule with sovereignty which is the cause of the strife we know of today. Where was all this anti-semitism before? Some like Cyrus mentioned that Hamas and fath are still a threat to Israel and the West and for this reason, Palestinians don't deserve a state. But then, as Nick pointed out, you are being an elitist. You have not been put in the situation that Palestinians were put in and as such the aggression and acts of 'terrorism' perpetrated by Hamas seem like a deal breaker. But considering their situation and that palestinians, having no state thus no army, could not defend themselves against the ever increasing Israeli radius of influence and settlements. Hamas uses guerrila tactics which is what citizen militias often resort to because in a frontal assault against a well-armed military such Israel's, they stand no chance. I am not for the massacre of innocent Israeli citizens, yet I in their case I would definitely not stand for the endless onslaught on palestinian children and women (compare the death toll on both sides and keep in mind that one has a state, the other does not). And no Cyrus, there is no religious hatred towards Jews, it is all intertwined with hatred towards Zionism and Israel which Al Qaeda members love to twist around to gain supporters throughout the Muslim world. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 13:59
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In September 2008 a group of wounded Palestinians were transferred to Iran, some days later a famous sentence which was said by one of them, could be found in numerous Persian websites: "I prefer to die than to be polluted by dirty shia blood!"
Unfortunately religious bigotry is a very serious problem in the Middle East, You can see the situation of Shia Muslims in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq and etc, of course we also know about the situation of Sunni Muslims in Iran, they are all Muslims but they could never live peacefully together.
The situation of non-Muslims has been always so much worse than it, no one can forget Armenian and Assyrian Christian genocides in the previous century, these people now want to wipe out Israeli Jews. -------------
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 15:13
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Indeed. The very idea that anti-semitism and a desire to destroy a nation state by those such as Hamas is to be refuted as a grandiose reflection of democratic principals, on their part, is ridiculous. In point of fact they have no such democratic motivation. Theirs is exactly what they purport it to be and desire...and is facilitated by like nation states with the same intent and agenda.
It is further naive to assume that an aforementioned hatred of Zionism, as a means to serve an end, is also, ntl, still a closeted if not overt hatred of Jews and Israel in toto. For like it or not, Zionism is Israel in a part and Israeli's are Jews.
So an/the assumption that one can hate only one and not the other is, imo, patent pro-Palestinian... pro-Hamas support.... propo nonsense.
Support Hamas.... equals support terror. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 18:13
You are mixing up the hatred of a few with that of many. What a group of wounded Plaestinians in 2008 can't possibly be the idea shared with all Palestinians. These peoblems in my opinion are almost never social and have no origin in the people themselves; they are merely projections of politics, a ruling few oppressing the many such as in Bahrain. this causes further strife when the politics are a cause for religious hatred. I myself being an Arab can refute all of this hatred which you Cyrus believe is common ground between Shi'a, Sunnis and Sufis. Why is it that in Middle-Eastern nations ,that are actually politically stable, there is very little of this aggression and hatred? I have lived many years in the United Arab Emirates and I can already tell you that you can find Arabs from every country living there. Never did I ever hear or witness any animosity between Christians, Sunnis or Shi'a and all these people do in fact reside there. I have seldom heard Iraqis speak about the state in which their country was before the American invasion. Christians and Muslims had always lived together and shared the same streets and neighbourhoods? I am sorry but just because things have recently spiraled out of control, you do not have the right to assume and claim that Shi'a and Sunnis can't live together in peace... Not under the current political 'structures' I agree, yet to make this some kind of universal truth is something i won't agree with... ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 18:29
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Allen West Schools on Palestinian Statehood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zoFzsjA3eM&feature=player_embedded#! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zoFzsjA3eM&feature=player_embedded#! I hope he runs for President of the USA in 2016 unless 2012 is the end of the world-   ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 18:37
Considering this post, I find very little that we can discuss because of the very bias reeking between these lines. So as far as i can understand, if Jews are at a potential risk or threat from the Palestinians this must be fought against as it is unjust and would make one a pro-terrorist... Yet, if one supports Israel as a legitimate state that is simply defending itself against terrorist groups ,such as hamas which kill innocent Israeli citizens, and in such an act kills many Palestinians and blockades the rest, that in your opinion is somewhat more acceptable and not as condemnable as a potential Palestinian rise in power? What I am trying to say is that Israel as a state has constantly undermined the Palestinian identity, culture and sovereignty. The killing and bombing that Israel has committed against Palestinians is in no way excusable and neither is any of the settling. To expect Palestinians to calmly accept the back then looming reality of Zionist expansion is in fact what is ridiculous! Stop linking Hamas with this false connotation of terrorism because i think they at least did something to face Israel's illegitimate expansion, albeit perpetrating some questionable acts (still in no way even comparable to those commited by Israel of course). I already spoke about anti-semitism, it did not exist before Israel's inception, that is proof enough of the sources of such a fabrication... Let us first condemn Israel who IS a state and is thus responsible of her acts, then once the unilateralism is over and oppression is no longer, then will we see if there is any Anti-Semitism. The word itself is a joke, both Arabs and Jews are semites, why use it exclusively for hatred towards Jews, bias much? ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2011 at 19:20
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Antisemitism is a very problematic word to use here as most Jews are descended from European converts while Palestinians have married other Semites for generations. In a way, Israel could be described as antisemitic for persecuting the descendents of the Biblical Jews. Zionism itself was (quite rightly) defined as a form of racism until Bush Sr. bullied the UN into repealing it ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 06:56
 Wake up WEST!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine *About term of anti-semitism. Sorry but for me, Israel is in same positon with lier shepherd (wolves and shepherd story). Jews are using this term as a sheld now and they used it in past too, so this term lost its meaning. Looking in anti-semitistic perspective for every negative criticism agaist Israel is an illness. *Also Hamas is elected authority by Palestinians and I don't see ant difference between Hamas policy and Israel policy. Both of them are unacceptable. In both of them, there are many sinless victims. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 07:29
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The problem is that after the creation of a Palestinian state, Islamic countries will certainly want the destruction of Israel's state, so the westerners are wise enough to not recognise the first one because of the second one. -------------
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 09:09
Again, that is just far-fetched. As far as I can remember the biggest donations that are given from the US government to any foreign country are always donations to Israel. Couple that with the fact that military service is a must in israel and the fact that they are superbly armed and quite technologically advanced (especially when it comes to weapons and defenses) I wouldn't worry about Israel's safety in a million years! The threat has never and will never be as big as the zionist regime tries to show on TV. A few deaths in Beer Sheva and Hevron is all that it is limited to. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 09:20
Nick, I used to agree with your theory that Palestinians are descendants from the remaining Philistines who mixed and were absorbed by the local Israelite population, who then later on adopted Arabic culture and inter-married with Arabs so that we arrive at the modern day palestinian. I'm starting to have doubts as to the validity of this claim, because I was reading Arrians's Anabasis Alexandrei (The Campaigns of Alexander) and I stumbled upon the siege of Gaza. The year was around 332 BBC and Arrians used the word 'Arabs' to describe the populations dwelling inside the fortress. I think this might show us that we must at least accept that there was a quite noticeable migration of bedouin tribes from the Negev and the South-east, especially after the Babylonian captivity. I also don't think that all the Philistines were extinct by the time of the captivity because that theory would rely solely on the OT account and no other historical source can be found speaking of this massive fight between Israelites and Philistines. It might be worth reviewing all these points because one can't say that Israelites and modern day Palestinians necessarily share the exact same ancestry. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 10:04
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I am concerned about those wars on middle east cause behind all wars stands ethnic cleanse.Why?!?Balkan wars were the same. |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 10:40
 Yes yes ask the Syrians and the Mullahs of Iran and their proxies throughout the region how far fetched...
Naive again....review the record Baal. Even you... since the state's creation in 1947... can not be mislead by the factual record of the numerous attempts by varying and all Arab states since then to gain their goal. And continue to pursue it. Then again perhaps ya can.
Or do you think all those wars and and terrorist actions were just a myth... or perhaps....I know...merely a delusion. Provided for and by the Euro socialist type, utopian meta-physicalists, who now quiver in their sleep over the failed assimilation policies of Arabs in their countries..and the threats that represents individually and collectively. Who now find it fashionable to support the Palestinians merely as a guise to cover their anti-semitism....and those same self-created and induced fears.
Yep that must be it.
No.
The rhetoric and agendas remain real. And the creation of a Palestinian state...under the control of rabid Jew haters and advocates of genocide.. is merely another brick in the road to the destruction of the nation state of Israel.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 13:28
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As you read http://www.navideshahed.com/en/index.php?Page=definition&UID=228173 - here , Ayatollah Khomeini (previous leader of Iran) said "if Muslims are united and if each Muslim poured only a glass of water, then there would happen a flood and Israel would vanish." It can be true, there are more than 1.5 billion Muslims and just a few million Jews, less than one hundred years ago, these Muslims vanished Assyiran population from the Middle East and the westerners did nothing for their fellow Christian brothers and sisters, what about Jews? It can't be worse than the Holocaust!
It is good to read the history:
The Urmia Conference was held on December 19, 1917. In attendance were: The Assyrian Patriarch and Assyrian General Agha Petros, Capt. George Gracey of Britain, Lieut. McDowell of the United States, Dr. Paul Caujole representing France, Mr. Basile Nikitine the Russian Consul in Urmia. The Conference was presided over by Dr. Shedd, The American Vice-Consul in the city of Urmia. Several questions were asked by the Assyrian leadership concerning their demands and military help. Captain Gracey spoke in behalf of the Allies in this manner: "Dear Friends: This is the first opportunity I have had to have the honour of being present with you. I wish now to speak to you with reference to the purpose and the plan of the Allied Powers concerning the small and oppressed nations such as yours. This great war that has now raged for so long, and is still raging at tremendous cost in blood and material to the Allies, has but one main object, and that is, the emancipation of small and oppressed nations such as yours. For centuries you have been crushed under the millstone of your enemies. You have been oppressed beyond measure. You have now come to the verge of extinction as a people and as a language, thanks to the misdeeds of the Turks, assisted by their allies the Germans. I have come to tell you that, inasmuch as the great Allied Powers are making tremendous sacrifices, and are shedding streams of blood for the sake of saving you, and making you free, it is your duty also as a small Christian nation to continue in the war, and fight as you have so splendidly fought in the past. Remember what you were in bygone centuries. The mighty deeds and achievements of your empire are today the richest treasures which adorn the museums of Europe and which still inspire the people of the western world. Let the memories of your own past inspire you to the performance of greater deeds. Let the hopes of a glorious future make you patient and persevering to the end. Remember, you are fighting for your freedom; and you must also continue to contribute toward that final goal. You should all think very deeply upon this matter, and prize your unique opportunity. It is the duty of you all to unite under the leadership of your great leader, the Patriarch. You have been known among the great powers, and recognized by them through the great name of Mar Shimun. There are no Persian Assyrians or Mountain Assyrians. You are all people, constituting the Assyrian Nation. Such is the good will and wish of the Allied Powers concerning you. I have been sent by my government to declare to you, as well as to other small nations, that you are all fighting for your own freedom. I have just come from Van. They are continuing in their struggle for their freedom. You must also unite under one head, and do the same. And so far as the feelings of the Persian Government are concerned, you leave that matter to our legation, and to the legations of the Allied Powers in Tehran. Furthermore, all the expense of your army will be paid by the Allies. It has already been arranged with the new government of Caucasia that you shall receive all guns and ammunitions you need, and even military assistance, if you require any. FREEDOM IS A VERY PRECIOUS AND COSTLY POSSESSION. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN BOUGHT BY SACRIFICES. YOU MUST ALSO BE WILLING TO DO THE SAME, IF YOU WISH TO POSSESS YOUR FATHERLAND WHERE MONEY AND MILK FLOW." -------------
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 15:46
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Is obvious that is not only an ethnic problem there, but one mostly religious. The Muslim world support 'Palestine' because, like other cultists too, they believe only Muslims are fully human and the rest of the world doesn't matter.
This religious-psychopathic view of the world as two entities, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam - "them" and "us" will not allow Muslims to live in peace with Israel or inside the Western society. They are sick people (the devouted ones), uncontrollable, brainwashed by Mohammed's commands of genocide and conquer. Almost in every Muslim country the religious minorities are persecuted and killed. When Muslims are a minority, they behave peacefully but when they are in power, they show their true face. They are also manipulative, what they say to a non-Muslim is not what they say to a Muslim. One should never trust them. -------------  |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 16:12
This topic is getting to be islamophobic. Accutualy now, I can easily understand how did the anti-semitism rise in Central Europe. It should be similar with islamphobia in here.But of course your are right about everything because "until lions write their own history the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter" there is nothing to say in this atmospher. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 17:24
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I will not go so far as to concur in your opinion. For one man's version and definition of an Islamophobe is another's version of an Islamophile.
As a poster-member I will speak freely and given the requirements of the Coc as I wish. I expect nothing less from any other here.
But as a Mod and member of staff; I also will ensure that before the potential for disruptive conflict actually occurs.... and or is not being used merely as a sop to the opposition viewpoint...that another Mod will ensure behavior within the CoC is being maintained..and recuse myself accordingly.
In the end.... the oppurtunity for disagreement and and contrary viewpoints being expressed freely and without fear of censure is more important to me, in both my roles, then one subjective analysis that the thread has become a haven for Islamophobes.
So as a member to members.... if that's how you feel; either participate as you desire or dont. And if you have a problem with the course, as you might identify the thread is developeing into, then feel free to PM the Administrator or a non contributing Mod with your concerns.
Assuming you feel that a mod participating is incapable of objectivity and the unbiased exercisement of his official role and duties as such.
That not only is everyones perogative but is exactly what is mandated by the aforementioned CoC.
And this Menumorut is an over generalization and stands without merit...
''They are also manipulative, what they say to a non-Muslim is not what they say to a Muslim. One should never trust them.'' For I know... have seen and lived..... the opposite and the same of just as many non Muslims.... in the 26 countries I have visited..... in my lifetime.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 17:38
I agree and groups like Hamas will not be happy till the Jews are all pushed out to the sea-  ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 19:45
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Another Arab-Israeli war is highly unlikely, not least due to Israel's powerful military and apparent possession of nuclear weapons. The Arabs don't want to exterminate the Jews, they just want to stop israel mistreating fellow-Muslims ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2011 at 20:05
Definately, I agree these words and I hope you have got same ideas about semitism and anti-semitism. However if this post isn't islamophobic, there isn't any islamophobic things on earth. "Is obvious that is not only an ethnic problem there, but one mostly religious. The Muslim world support 'Palestine' because, like other cultists too, they believe only Muslims are fully human and the rest of the world doesn't matter. This religious-psychopathic view of the world as two entities, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam - "them" and "us" will not allow Muslims to live in peace with Israel or inside the Western society. They are sick people (the devouted ones), uncontrollable, brainwashed by Mohammed's commands of genocide and conquer. Almost in every Muslim country the religious minorities are persecuted and killed. When Muslims are a minority, they behave peacefully but when they are in power, they show their true face. They are also manipulative, what they say to a non-Muslim is not what they say to a Muslim. One should never trust them." It is also funny. Like a dog chasing own tail. He found something in vikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam (in same sources also says "neither mentioned in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran - Qur'an nor in the sayings of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Muhammad - Prophet ") and he is making humiliating generalizations about all muslims.
Sorry, but I don't think that I can reach a solution and also this is just a forum in all web. It isn't enough to fight. Best idea is being irresponsive. Like jesus and turning other cheek. I hope all other members can find the solution with talking but i think this is a bit difficult with similar minds, similar perspectives. Oh sorry, you have already solve the problems. Of course the killer is just muslim sides as every time (they have secret faces). they want to kill all jews and pushed out them to the sea. Because they believe only Muslims are fully human and the rest of the world doesn't matter. but if you understand solution isn't simple as that. I will be waiting you in other topics, not this one anymore. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 04:49
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The fact is that Islamism is much worse than racism, I really felt ashamed to be an Iranian when I read about the trial of the murderer of Miro Begijanian, a 15 year-old Armenian boy who was killed in Tehran some years ago, both of them were Iranian, but the killer was a Muslim and the killed one was a Christian, the judge said three years punishment for the killer is just because "disturbing public order", not for killing this non-Muslim!! Giving freedom to Muslims in the regions where non-Muslims live is very dangerous, for this reason it is really better that there isn't an independent country named "Palestine", especially with the capital city of Jerusalem, this country will change the balance of the power in the region and will make problems for other countries. -------------
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 06:56
As I noted above play or don't play... your choice. His attention has been called to the overgeneralization. I already did that. The rest is his subjective analysis.. much as you have been posting. Your problem is you don't like it or the language. And along those lines should he have used a more subtle or PC style to assuage his potential opponent? Perhaps.
Probably not.
Because if he had, he then would not have been expressing his view within the context he intended. And I as a member (and Mod) would rather have an honest man (even an incorrect one) then a facade for the sake of pcness.
If you disagree and wish to dispute the points.... then do so. Don't merely complain about what only you, have at this point id, as an example of Islamophobia....and go away. Because at that point, imo, that's merely reflective of intellectual cowardice.
He is at this point expressing his viewpoint still within the Coc and or my definition of it as both member and Mod. The language may be harsh as viewed by many but that's a fact of daily life.
If and when he or any one else steps beyond the guidance within the CoC... I or someone else will be there.
If you don't believe that.... then you don't believe in the objectivity of the staff as an entity in being able to control, as necessary, discourse to avoid conflict....
and you would be incorrect.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 15:25
It should or it it shouldn't. The antisemitism was partially a phobia, but that doesn't mean that any opposition to a doctrine or cult is also a phobia. To say it is, is another sample of simplist thinking, typical to people who deny the reality to protect their delusion. Look around, other cults too believed the same things about the "divinity" of their leaders and were ready to die or do anything to show their devotion. Is embarassing how those people were fooled to that degree, because they were really sincere. But the leaders were not, there is clear evidence that Muhammad, Hitler, Jim Jones etc were intentionally misleading their followers. Opposition to doctrines based on violence and opression is not irrational, is not a phobia. When daily are killed people in the name of a belief, people have reason to fear. And returning to 'Palestine', I want to say that I don't like the Jews because most of them are too cultists, with their belief in their so-called chosenness. But is their right to live in Judea together with the Arabs native there who are the same people (arabized and islamized Jews). And the name 'Palestine' is an insult to the Jewish people. It was used by Romans after the Bar Kokhba Revolt to dissociate the name of the territory to the Jewish people. Today is it known that the Jews were the prehistoric inhabitants of the land of Canaan and that the Philistines from which the name Palestine originates, were some European (Proto-Greek or Illyrian) invaders who controlled a part of the Canaanite coast some centuries starting with 1175 BCE. The biblical mythology about the migration of Jews during the Bronze Age has still an effect on the minds of many, as people don't understand that most of the Bible was invented ans has no connection with the historical events. ------------- |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 17:07
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*"Revisionist Zionism is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism - nationalist faction within the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism - Zionist movement. It is the founding ideology of the non-religious http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing - right in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel - Israel , and was the chief ideological competitor to the dominant socialist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Zionism - Labor Zionism . Revisionism is represented primarily by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Likud_Party - Likud Party " "While the initial core group of Likud leaders such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Israel - Israeli Prime Ministers Begin and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Shamir - Yitzhak Shamir came from Likud's Herut faction, later leaders, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu - Benjamin Netanyahu , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon - Ariel Sharon have come from or moved to the "pragmatic" Revisionist wing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism last two prime ministers of Isreal just racist guys *I have posted map before. It is obvious which side is pushing out which side, but if you want to close your eyes.. *How many people from Isreal have to live another country now because of Hamas attacks and how many Palestines have to live as refugees? check it on net. *Embargo: do you think it is just about guns. People in Gazze can't export their products as flowers, just flowers. http://observers.france24.com/content/20100203-two-half-dark-years-gaza-flower-growers - http://observers.france24.com/content/20100203-two-half-dark-years-gaza-flower-growers *Israel is keeping own expansion, west is just saying stop it, but they have never stopped before http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15085308 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15085308 note:about your muslim majority&non-muslim minority theory, please look different sides and make research, I can give you many good examples about how it is shit living in non-muslim majority as a muslim and also just this summer we saw big christian teror attack in Norway. It is not about religion, it is about being fanatic note2:about "typical to people who deny the reality to protect their delusion", I have given my best answer with using your reference. let me remind you "neither mentioned in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran - Qur'an nor in the sayings of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Muhammad - Prophet "  ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 17:53
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What about the Palestinian Christians who are being persecuted by the Muslim brethren in the Gaza Strip?
Also, what about the Palestinians in Bethlehem, now a minority, who were once the majority in that city? How can the Muslim Palestinians demand a free state when they oppress their Christian brethren? ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 20:17
That's not true. The Muslim Turks and Mughals tolerated other religions while the Christians still burned people as witches or heretics. Modern Muslims may be prejudiced against outsiders, but this is largely a reaction to earlier oppression by European imperialists and America's support for dictators like Mubarak and Zionist colonialism ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2011 at 20:39
First part firstly, if you don't give up this discrimination (like muslim and christian), how can you hope that future palestine state behave equal christians and muslims? and also countries shouldn't have a religion even which have muslim majority or christian majority secondly, free state? Can you mention about it? I couldn't reach the meaning of free state in this information The Bethlehem Governorate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_language - Arabic : محافظة بيت لحم Muḥāfaẓat Bayt Laḥm) is one of 16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governorates_of_the_West_Bank_and_Gaza_Strip - Governorates of the West Bank and Gaza Strip within the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Territories - Palestinian Territories . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem_Governorate - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem_Governorate thirdly, Palestine doesn't suggest any new idea. They are talking about old 1967 borders. Second part Christians from Gaza "Because of the situation, people are not able to provide food for their children. We have been providing food for families - more than 99% of them Muslims - in the refugee camps. We also help people visit the doctor and arrange to pay for their prescriptions." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4514822.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4514822.stm "Says George Said, a Bethlehem property dealer: "If the Pope continues to keep quiet about the suffering of Christians from Israelis, a day will come when the churches of Bethlehem and Jerusalem are turned into empty museums without a single Christian." http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1897238,00.html#ixzz1ZIR7Tkqh - http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1897238,00.html#ixzz1ZIR7Tkqh "The church ceiling has fallen down maybe six times when Israel has been bombing nearby. Things like that - it's life in Gaza." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4514822.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4514822.stm "There are a lot of people who are trying to disrupt the relationship between Christians and Muslims in Gaza. Despite the events that happened against Christians in Gaza before, the relationship did not deteriorate. In fact, it is at its best, Bandali said." "He said that the Christians have not faced any problems with Hamas’ government in the Gaza Strip, who have been in control of the region for one year and a half. " http://www.menassat.com/?q=en/news-articles/5484-rumours-or-reality-palestinian-christians-gaza - http://www.menassat.com/?q=en/news-articles/5484-rumours-or-reality-palestinian-christians-gaza Rami Tarazi, an unemployed 31-year-old, said he would have loved to
go see the pope, but it was not possible to get a permit to leave Gaza
for Bethlehem. “You had to be over 40 to qualify, and then they only chose some people. We don’t know who did the choosing.” Several people said only about 90 of Gaza’s 4,000 Christians were allowed to leave to go see Pope Benedict. Life under Hamas is a delicate topic. “We don’t have any problem with them,” Saba said carefully. A 21-year-old student, who asked not to be named, said Hamas didn’t do anything specific against Christians but didn’t protect them when they came under attack from Islamist extremists. Over at the Greek Orthodox Church of Saint Porphyrous, a parishioner there who also asked not to be named said Christians were concerned about Hamas although he gave no details. Husam al-Taweel, a Christian member of the Palestinian Legislative Council elected with Hamas support, gave a fuller view of the situation for Christians in Gaza. “I won’t say there are no problems and we are living in heaven,” he said in an office at the Greek Orthodox church, where he is secretary general of the board. “But there is no discrimination against Christians in particular. We don’t see ourselves as a minority, but as part of the Arab majority.” Taweel said 90 percent of Gaza’s 4,000 Christians were Greek Orthodox, the rest being Roman Catholic and a few Baptists. The Christian community has dwindled because of migration, he said, but added: “This is not a problem only for Christians. This is a problem for the Palestinian community in general. They’re all looking for a job, a better future.” http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/05/18/impressions-from-gaza-minority-christians-and-hamas/ - http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/05/18/impressions-from-gaza-minority-christians-and-hamas/ ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 03:51
Is this a joke? Muslim Turks were usually much more bigoted than Arab Muslims, there was just a short-lived religious tolerance during early Arab Abbasid Caliphs, as I said in this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27534&KW=Mamun&PID=624787#624787 - The Greatest Of The Greats Al-Ma'mun can be certainly considered as one of the Greatest Islamic rulers just because his admirable religious tolerance, of course he was not really a good Muslim too, Shia Muslims call him an absolute infidel. -------------
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 04:24
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Instead of barking all around please let us see about this question here: http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/38D6C47FC5FB0CDD852575D6006C70D4 - http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/38D6C47FC5FB0CDD852575D6006C70D4 two people have been connected at least with quarter of DNA content!This is school example how politics and multi point interests divide same people! |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 15:46
This is not true either. You live in your islamic dreamworld, not in reality. Tens of millions of Hindus were killed and thousands of temples destroyed by Muslim invaders: The Muslim conquest of the Indian subcontinent led to widespread carnage because Muslims regarded the Hindus as infidels and therefore slaughtered and converted millions of Hindus. Will Durant argued in his 1935 book The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage (page 459): “ The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period. ... Prof. K.S. Lal, suggests a calculation in his book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India which estimates that between the years 1000 AD and 1500 AD the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#During_Islamic_rule_of_the_Indian_sub-continent - Persecution of Hindus during Islamic rule of the Indian sub-continent Se also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Muslim_places_of_worship_into_mosques - Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques As for Christians and Jews, I have not time now to detail how the Arabs and Turks 'tolerated' them but you may find all the information on Wikipedia and other sources, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism - Islam and antisemitism Muslims invented the state religious discrimination, the yellow (and other color) badges for Jews and other non-Muslims: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge - Yellow badge The Quran and Hadith don't teach Muslims to tolerate other religions but to exterminate the polytheists and to subjugate and humiliate the Christians and Jews. Muslim history was a history of war and conquest because the founder wanted to control everything. As for modern Muslims, their violence is primary directed toward other Muslims, either for sectarian differences or as punishment for those who don't want to observe the islamic prescriptions. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ - TheReligionOfPeace.com website keeps an evidence of the attacks of Muslims on Muslims and non-Muslims. You can find on the bottom of the page a huge list with the attacks in the last two months and in the years since 2001. Each day tens of Muslims and othe people killed by religious fundamentalists. On the top of the page, on the right, you find articles from online journals about other psychotic acts of Muslims acting to implement Mohammed's 'values'. **********************
Denigrative terminology to describe an individual... historic or other... especially when dealing in theology.. is not necessary. Leads to unecessary disruptive discourse and potential flamming. Your adjective has been edited. You do not need such to make your point.
Keeping it as civil as possible is our watchword.
Carry on. CV ------------- |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2011 at 21:30
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Don't tar every Islamic society with the same brush. Muslim Emperor Akbar treated his Indian subjects well and married several Hindu princesses. The Turks taxed Christians and Jews but allowed them to practise their religion unmolested. Going further back, Muhammed himself had several Jewish and Christian friends ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 04:57
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Muhammed and his Jewish firends: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza
The Invasion of Banu Qurayza, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-autogenerated7-0 - [1] also known as the Massacre of Banu Qurayza, took place in the Dhul Qa‘dah during February and March of 627 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era - CE (5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijri_year - AH ). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-5 - [6] The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Prophet - Islamic Prophet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad - Muhammad besieged the Banu Qurayza for 25 days until they surrendered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-autogenerated7-0 - [1] One of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahabah - Muhammad's companions decided that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Oxford_University_Press-6 - [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Peters223-7 - [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Stillman140-8 - [9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Adil-9 - [10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-The_life_of_Mahomet-10 - [11] after which all male members of the tribe who had reached puberty were http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beheaded - beheaded . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-tafsir1-1 - [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Kister_1990_p._54-11 - [12] The Muslim jurist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabari - Tabari quotes 600-900 being executed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-autogenerated7-0 - [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-autogenerated1-2 - [3] The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni - Sunni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith - hadith do not give the number killed, but state that all males were killed and 1 woman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-12 - [13] The rest of the woman and children were sold in exchange for weapons and horses, according to Islamic sources. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-autogenerated7-0 - [1] According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir - Ibn Kathir , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran - Quranic verses 33:26-27 and 33:9-10 are about the attack against the Banu Qurayza. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-tafsir1-1 - [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-tafsir2-13 - [14] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Haykal_1976-14 - [15] The Banu Qurayza were allied to Muhammmad and during the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Trench - Battle of the Trench they lent tools to the Muslims to defend themselves in Medina, but they did not participate in any fighting. The Qurayza were deeply offended by Muhammad's recitation of revelations which strongly attacked Jews, and according to Islamic sources (such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Waqidi - Al-Waqidi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Kurayza-15 - [16] ) they negotiated with the Meccans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Islam:_faith_and_practice-16 - [17] Waqidi claims that Muhammad had a treaty with the tribe which was torn apart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Stillman - Norman Stillman and Watt deny the claims of al-Waqidi. Stillman claims that al-Waqidi made up stories about a broken treaty to justify the attack on the Qurayza. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Kurayza-15 - [16] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Stillman14-16-17 - [18] Al-Waqidi has been frequently criticized by Muslim writers, who claim that he is unreliable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-ReferenceA-18 - [19] According to Mubrakpuri, Peters, Stillman, Guillaume, Inamdar and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir - Ibn Kathir , on the day of the Meccans' withdrawal Muhammad led his forces against the Banu Qurayza neighborhood. According to Muslim tradition he had been ordered to do so by the angel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel - Gabriel (Jibraaiyl) . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-autogenerated7-0 - [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-tafsir1-1 - [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Oxford_University_Press-6 - [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Peters223-7 - [8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Stillman140-8 - [9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza#cite_note-Inamdar-19 - [20] -------------
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 11:05
Should Islam ban? Should all muslims put into jail or mental hospital untill accept conversion their religion? What? You are just telling negative examples about Islam and also some of them are really historical examples which are not directly relevant with topic (maybe you forget, but topic is recognition of Palestine!!!) and so what? there are also good examples and there are many negative examples in other regilions too. I sent references about how but embargo, today's maps, Israel expansion(still) and christian opinions from Gaza (these are directly relevant references!!!) Do you deny bloody side of Christianity history? because this post shows it like that
Maybe 1945 and Bosnia words can help you remember. I can give you many examples from 2 and 3 centuries till today, but I don't want to do it. BECAUSE; Problem isn't Islam or Chrisitanity. Problem is fanaticism. It is in every religion even peaceful Hinduism. It was in past and it is on today. But I am really serious about I wrote firstly. Please send post 1 or 2 paragraphs. What is your point, your thesis? What should we think after your posts? Note: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_non-Muslim_places_of_worship_into_mosques - Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques what does it proof? There many historical church in turkey on the old pagan temples. Have you heard Cathedral of Cordoba? Do you think it was built as church? and check "church converted to Mosque uk", did muslim force UK to do that? * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge - Yellow badge sorry, we invented it, in 700-800AD, but world remember chrisitans as the last general user (in Germany in 1945AD), ask any Jew I hope you can notice that we can't reach any results with this way. I am repeating again. Problem isn't Islam or Chrisitanity. Problem is fanaticism. It is in every religion even peaceful Hinduism. It was in past and it is on today. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 15:37
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Ollios, you don't live in a country which is ruled by Islamic clerics, so you can't understand what we feel about Islam in our country, people are being executed, stoned to death, gotten their hands cut off, ... just because these Islamic laws, what do you expect that I say about this religion? Call it Islam or any other thing, this cruel and brutal ideology should be ban and those who believe in these savage laws really need "mental hostpital".
We don't have any problem with those people who call themselves Muslims but don't follow Islamic laws, for example those Muslims who ignore the Islamic law that a punishment can be just "Execution, or Crucifixion, or the Cutting and Removing Off of hands and feet from OPPOSITE sides, ..." (Quran: Al-Ma'idah: 5 - 33) -------------
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 16:17
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Two very good books to understand the psychology of Muhammad and Muslims (and by extension the psychology of other destructive cults and deviant psychology in general). Right click on the link and chose "Save link as" (it will save the book as a pdf on your computer):
http://freepdfhosting.com/a62e1796a5.pdf - Understanding Muhammad: The Psychobiography of Allah’s Prophet by Ali Sina (2008). Describes the several psychological diseases Muhammad suffered of, like schizophrenia and epilepsy (hallucinations), obsessive compulsive disorder (obsession with numbers and rituals) and narcissism. http://www.islam-watch.org/SujitDas/Unmasking_Muhammad.pdf - Unmasking Muhammad, The Malignant Narcissist and His Grand Delusion Allah by Sujit Das (2010). Explains in detail the typical narcissist traits and how they appear at Muhammad, as a result of deprivation of love in childhood. ------------- |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 16:56
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In the next week an Iranian Christian named "Yusef Nadarkhani" will be executed for apostasy, this is an Islamic law which shows the meaning of "freedom" in this religion, someone can be killed because of his/her personal beliefs, Muslims need more freedom to kill millions of people around the world for this reason. -------------
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 18:46
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And so explain the relevance and the contrary beyond the rhetoric... for your opposition can... and may well do the same This as you well know sets us apart from the mundane.
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As I said gentlemen..... keep it as he has.. civil. You are all doing me proud. Even though you don't give a crap less who I am or might be.
Carry On. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2011 at 20:49
It's a pity we don't have punishments like that in the UK for all the thieves, murderers and child molesters overfilling our prisons. On the other hand, be careful not to confuse the Islamic religion with the Islamist political ideology similar to 17th century Puritanism. All Islamists are Muslims, but not every Muslim is an Islamist ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 03:25
These punishments are not for just those ones but wine drinkers, girlfriends of boys, boyfriends of girls, dancers, gamblers, women with no hijab, ... let's not fool ourselves, the problem is just Islam, the first group that you call Muslims are some people who don't follow Islamic laws and the second group that you call Islamists are real followers of Islam. I'm myself a Muslim, more than 80 percent of Iranians call themselves Muslims but drink wine, dance in parties, love gambling, ... but always fear of real Muslims. -------------
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 10:30
Cyrus Shahmiri, really thank you for your hearty answer . I am looking for this.
I won't discuss how difficult is living in Iran with you. What you say about it, it is true. However I can argue sometihing (you can't understand what we feel about Islam in our country). Some Turks felt(me to) similar emotions after the AKP government  this is Izmir, it is also symbol for being anti-AKP(or fear of being Iran) and I posted before, I don't support any the idea of country religion. Countries shouldn't have religion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_Protests - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_Protests I am living in the country where execution is illegal since 2004 but we hadn't used it since 1984, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Turkey - but in some countries (I don't give name US?, ?hina and Ir?n ) execution is still continuing all around world so it is not just about religion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Turkey - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Turkey
Do you thing every muslim proud with Iran and they hope that maybe one day, can their government be like Iran? none of turkic or muslim balkan countries have sharia so it makes that problem isn't Islam and also I told before, it is in every religion. You can see it. just computer, net and a little time for research. 
Maybe Quran is single but I have to know it as a muslim, religious differences and variations in Islam are as much as deep and lots like in Christianity, so for me Molla's in Iran are fanatics, excessively religious but for them, I guess, I am kaffir, so who is real muslim? Many centuries Catholics accused Ortodoxs and Protestans for not being real christians. Now all world accept three of them as different ways of christinanity Don't you thing living in Iran(world Extremly Politic Islamic Country) make you more aggressive agaist Islam? My way isn't accusation religions, accusation just negative applications and rules. Menumorut We have got language barrier  . Maybe it is because of me. English isn't my first language. I didn't want more references, I asked your words, your thesis, but you should know that if you continue on this way, I will do to. I can post many things about Christianity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism Could you Menumorut answer, these questions? *Do you deny bloody sides of Christianity history?(You should know that I didn't do it for Islam) *Do you believe that all reason of problems is JUST about Islam? *or Do you agree that problem is just fanatic sides and in every belief they are, even christianity or atheism *what do you hope from me? and your point?(like I hope you notice that....., I just want to show that... , I will be glad if you accept this....... or If I were you, I....) *what is your possible scenarioes for end of our conversation? Note:first 3 are yes-no questions so please before reply say yes or no Nick1986 I agree you about Muslims and Islamists ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 14:47
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Ollios, this topic is about "Freedom for Palestine", may I know why you support a Palestinian state? Isn't it just because Palestinains are Muslim and Israelis are Jewish? For example do you also believe "Freedom for Kurdistan"?
You seem to be a Turk, more than 15 million Kurds are being suppressed by your government, they also want an independent country of their own, if you really believe in freedom for people then you should support these people too, do you support them?
It is very clear that Turks, Iranians and even Arabs support a Palestinian state just because their religious bigotry, whenas they themselve annihilate people who think about independence in their own territories. -------------
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 14:57
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Woow,that's a duel!Guns or swords?You behave same as people about you discuss!For both of You,10 times hear this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE&ob=av3e - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE&ob=av3e |
Posted By: Moustafa Pasha
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 18:35
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 21:15
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Great, another George Bush. America is already fighting a war on two fronts and he's already threatening Iran. The Jews of the Classical era were a completely different people to modern Jews, most of whom are of Slavic descent. Palestine may have been named after the Philistines, but these were absorbed by the Jewish majority or expelled by David. It's very hypocritical of the Americans to denounce terrorism when their own nation was founded through violent revolution. The attacks in Gaza have increased not because Israel is under pressure, but because settlers continue to steal Palestinians' ancestral lands. He may be right to express caution over the Arab spring, but even if a group like the Muslim Brotherhood does gain power, their actions as the legitimate government will be considerably-less radical than their current views as they will have to deal with a constitution, popular pressures and international-diplomacy. The Arab Spring and Palestinian independence are irreversible, meaning the only option is to engage the new regimes democratically and lead by example as a positive role-model, not a bully and aggressor, or face isolation and long-term rejection by the Arab nations ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2011 at 23:59
*Embargo *Still continuing builting settelments *You are against Iranic mullahs but you are supporting Jewish mullahs. "...later leaders, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Netanyahu - Benjamin Netanyahu , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon - Ariel Sharon have come from or moved to the "pragmatic" Revisionist wing." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Zionism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism -
No, but I can understand your suspicions 1-Firstly my turkish(anatolian-ottoman) identity is more important than my muslim identity for me 2-I sent also Jewish people photoes who support Palestine. are all these people muslim? from northwest europe to southeast europe   UK Greece * http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7822083.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7822083.stm * http://www.demotix.com/news/344604/greek-protest-against-israels-gaza-aid-flotilla-attack - http://www.demotix.com/news/344604/greek-protest-against-israels-gaza-aid-flotilla-attack
Maybe, it can be true for Arabs and Iranian but it is not true for Turks. We had strong relationship with Israel so we could support Israel after than we could buy Al-Aqsa from them. we could do whatever we want in that land even sent turkish imams for all important historical mosques in Palestine-Israel lands. All Israel was ours(nearly 4-5 times bigger than palestine) Atcually, it is good idea, what can I want more. maybe I should change my side
If you total all numbers which was given by ethnic groups, Turkey population should be 150million. It is like a social rule about minority's population; minorities say more, goverments say less. They don't want being independent, they prefer local parliament inside Turkey and cultural rights(mostly on language issue). I support their some wants and don't support some others. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2011 at 15:34
The references about the historical persecution of non-Muslims by Muslims was a correction to one of Nick's messages. Why you bring Christianity here? It has no relevance, as we talk about Islam. And while not an Atheist, I'm not a Christian either. I don't believe in the gospels fairy tales about miracles and I think 99% of the OT and 90% of the NT are pure inventions.
1. Yes, I deny. 2. No. 3. I disagree. 4. Nothing. 5. I just change information and ideas. When I will finish what I have to say the conversation is over. Now let me explain first three points. 1. I deny that Christianity is violent. Is a completely peaceful religion, like Buddhism. In the same time, Islam teachings are violent. Stonings, mutilations, war, revenge, is the opposite of Christianity. If some Christians behave violently and some Muslims peacefully, is not relevant for the real nature of each religion, as they appear in their 'sacred' texts. 2. Is true that Islam is not the only problem, nationalism is another one. But I tend to believe that Islam is the main problem, as the Quran teaches Muslims to kill the Jews (alternatively with verses telling Muslims to protect them, because Mohammed ......edited for derogative and inflammatory language. So Muslims think is their duty to persecute and exterminate the Jews, as Muhammad did and taught. 3. While "Christian terrorism" is something too insignificant to be mentioned here, the Islamic option for violence and oppression is general, not limited to some 'fanatics'. Statistics show that a large part of Muslims (probably the majority) support the violent, inhuman Sharia punishments of stoning the adulterers, cutting hands or killing the apostates: About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan. When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. When it comes to the death penalty for those who leave Islam, Muslim men in Nigeria are clearly supportive (58% favor and 39% oppose). http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/ - Pew Report So, with such a support for those evil rules, is senseless to say that only the fanatic Muslims are the problem. Or to say that the "Christian terrorists" are a real problem. *************************************************************************
I told you before that is not necessary to use that type language to make your point. As it is inflammatory, subjective and potentially without merit in context. That it might or might not be provable. And no where have I seen your credentials to sustain a diagnosis that you would ascertain; insofar as the Prophet's mental health. Even if it were possible in hindsight to render such an opinion.
Which is highly doubtful.
You appear to be more then fluent in English so you would do well to remember the CoC.
Now you are warned officially.
Choose and use language that is not that which has been edited. You are more then capable of that as far as I am concerned.
If you don't..and you do it again... and I will suspend you. ------------- |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2011 at 15:41
No. They are the same people as genetic studies have shown. In fact the similarity with the genes of people in Levant is surprising. To say that the modern Jews are of Slavic descent is just lighlty. ------------- |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2011 at 21:41
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Genetic studies are still speculative at this time. They have both proved and refuted the theory Hitler was of Jewish descent ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 00:28
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Agree with you Nick,genetic spreed sheets now days,look the same as betting house's catalogs.Info that will help is fact that in Egyptian period,Sinai was place where military&administration people lived.That's a lot of skilled people.I forgot priests,sorry! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 02:24
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I'm myself a Muslim but I believe if all fellow Muslims are killed then the world will be certainly more safe to live in, unfortunately this is a bitter fact that Muslims themselves have to believe it, from Indonesia to India and the Middle East, everywhere Muslims live, savagery and terrorism also exist. -------------
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 03:05
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I could no more support that the eradication of the lame or the blind, people of color or a WASP... as, imo, it smacks of a mentality of ethnic cleansing and genocide.
I would submit that ''all fellow Muslims are killed then the world will be certainly more safe to live in,''.... is not only an extreme overgeneralization. But patently untrue in that the numbers of non-violent and or secular Muslims deaths would prove nothing. For they have done nothing inherently of a danger so great as to require this.
My landlord..An Iranian-American Muslim... given that qualification would be required to be eliminated....and as his friend, I would not approve nor allow it.... as long as I personally had the power to ensure it did not.
For in point of fact, terrorists and or terrorism is as much a matter of political ideology as theologically-culturally and economically based. Consequently, It remains a learned behavior not a genetically inherited one.
And learned behaviors can be changed and modified from the negative to a positive. It may not be practically possible for the "diehards" perse...but given the opportunity to catch and modified their behavior at a young enough age..... then the potential remains.
What course of action is required for this...I wont speculate. But I know that I would rather as necessary eliminate the die hards one at a time and even see the world suffer then to determine the loss of an multi-ethnic,theologic and political group of peoples. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 03:42
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One final note.... as this thread has been drifting towards a semblance of a discussion over Islamic theology; then where that belongs is in "Philosophy and Theology" section of the forum. My recommendation is then.. that if that is where this is..going then take it there. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 04:02
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Centrix Vigilis, if you know nothing about the dangerous ideology of Islam, it will be really better that you don't talk about it, Nazists killed millions of people and there were some people like you who blindy supported them without knowing anything about their true beliefs. It can be true to say modern Zionism is also a dangerous ideology, but if people are being killed by the followers of it, we shouldn't give power to the followers of a much more dangerous ideology. Of course there can be no difference between that Zionist soldier who kills a Palestinian kid and that Palestinain terrorist who proudly kills Israeli children, both of them have false beliefs.
I was born as a Muslim and I can never change my religion, otherwise I will be killed, like Nadarkhani and several other people who are being killed everyday in the Islamic countries becuase of apostasy, I wonder why people support the followers of this religion, just because there are some people who call themselves Muslims but know nothing about Islamic laws? -------------
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 04:25
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We read in Quran that real muslims are just those ones who "Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor hold the forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger (Muhammad), nor acknowledge the true religion (Islam) from among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians)" (Quran: Al Taubah: 9 - 29)
Therefore for example if you drink wine, which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, a true Muslim should fight against you, otherwise he/she can not be considered as a Muslim. -------------
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 08:53
Actually, your religion perspective is a bit unrelevant. it can be just second-third class topic. We are talking about a political situation. But, you don't want to see political(real, direct reason of conflict) side of issue and starting to talk about second class topics. Issue is politic conflict and politic problems like embargo and borders. Today, Israel capital is Jaruselam(in jewish laws), but after the arab-Israel war1949, Israel took just west part of the city, not all!!! but when Egypt and Jordan left those lands in 1967, they start occupasions and built Israel settlements. why all embassies in Israel are in Tel Aviv??? Christianity just for example against your idea about Islam. How similar two religion about historical and using both them for teror or killing. You are putting same fruits in the different baskets.
Edited as unnecessarily potential inflammatory verbiage and trolling.
He is entitled to any position he wishes to include one contrary to yours. And as such your acerbic comment is no more conducive to civil discourse then that which he has been warned about.
Now I am officially warning you keep it civil or be prepared to suffer the consequences.
I have no idea about you, being an islamic and also christian scholar. You completly solve their nature, what they teach... but your last sentence just funny. Same Quran also says; Quran:YÛNUS - 99 TR: Eğer Rabbin dileseydi, yeryüzünde bulunanların hepsi elbette topyekûn iman ederlerdi. Böyle iken sen mi mü’min olsunlar diye, insanları zorlayacaksın? (department of religious affairs, Turkey) EN:If it had been the Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! Will you then compel mankind, against their will, to believe? freedom of religion and conscience-don't push people, this is what I understood. Quran: from MÂİDE if any one slew a person, it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. killing people or Islamic atmospher also created good, sample movements and people too. Love created because of the Creator(God) - Yunus Emre (Sufi, 1240?-1321?) (Note: 1991 was also year of Yunus Emre-Unesco)
Declaration of own religion is becoming tradition in this topic. Supporting Israel or Palestine, not just about religion look at Cyrus Shahmiri or my previous photoes from UK and Greece. Supporting one person just because of his religion same with you is madness. Note: You can image how similar my religion perpective with radicals from my avatar. @Menumorut Islam and christianity are just mesages, what you learn from them is your business. You can kill people (even Christanity, but you are still dening it ) or love people. I suggest you, check your reaction and your target? If you target your reaction in more small areas(like killing Mr. X because of being non-muslims in ex. Iran), you find more supporters and you can reach a solution more quickly.
??? , you show that your are not so different than Iran goverment(according to your example), you can talk about killing people and you can believe it, just because of religion.
There are many Mohammed followers who find Iran extremly stick, anachronistic, so If you know Islam just in Iran, just blame Islamic perspective in Iran and now, you are starting to decide people religion instead of them with these words. Are the people who are not like Iran mullah's, not real muslims and don't they deserve call themselves as muslim? I sent many posts which show fanatic sides in christianity too(but some of you still deny it) and know in Israel-Jew culture some slogans "Arabs to the crematoria" & "Arabs - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subhuman - sub-humans " * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arabism#Israel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arabism#Israel * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_and_racial_discrimination_in_Israel - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_and_racial_discrimination_in_Israel  Graffiti מוות לערבים reads "Death to Arabs" ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 10:38
This whole post is another example of an extreme overgeneralization. Certainly when it comes to your assertion : " if you know nothing about the dangerous ideology of Islam, it will be really better that you don't talk about it, Nazists killed millions of people and there were some people like you who blindly supported them without knowing anything about their true beliefs."
You have absolutely no idea what I know or not know..
discern and or perceive reference Islamist theologist terrorist threats. Nor what I have done individually or collectively to attempt to counter it in uniform, out of uniform, during combat operations and out. Anymore than those same imposers of bigotry and or the avowed practitioners of genocide....and racism.
But your attempted arrogance..and continued hyperbole in defense of your position... in assuming... that only you... an avowed but apparently unwilling Islamist, who essential hates other Islamists or apparently even other non secular Muslims...
(as that's the only apparent obvious interpretation being offered by your posts and latest comments. reference a self genocidalist wish in killing them all off in toto... as an answer)
...is qualified to speak...
is astounding and rediculous.
And to assume that I was or am the type that would have idly stood by and permitted the atrocities of the Nazi's or modern day Islamist terrorists or any others for that matter... merely reveals... you... have got no clues as to who you are really talking to.
Which merely reinforces my point....your overgeneralizations.
Apparently you must believe that I am to be overawed and impressed by the fact your a Persian living in Iran and don't like being a Muslim. And that because you perceive them as the 'end of days' threat that I should as well. Well that's not going to happen.
And finally as it remains my prerogative to contribute when and where I shall on this forum... whether I should or should not... talk about this subject... is not your decision to make. Certainly if I am within the CoC.
You don't like it?
Take it up with the administrator-owner because as far as I am concerned.. in this issue, on this thread... your merely fast approaching trolling. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 11:40
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Let's all just calm down. Why does every Palestine thread have to turn into a flame war? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 12:59
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Both you and Centrix Vigilis, removed the first part of my sentence to change the meaning of my irony post, I said that I'm myself a Muslim, almost everyone that I know is also a Muslim, isn't it silly to say "we should kill each other that other people of the world live more safe!!!" I just talk about a dangerous ideology based on a book named Quran, you can call it Islam, Islamism or any other thing, you can read in that the only true religion is Islam and the followers of other religions should believe in this religion, otherwise Muslims should fight and kill them.
With this belief it is not possible to live in a safe world, the first ones who are killed are people like me who don't like to believe in this selfish religion and after us there will be the followers of other religions.
Among all Muslims, Iranians have been certainly the most moderate ones maybe because their strong pre-Islamic moral culture, Mullahs of Iran support terrorists but you can hardly find any Iranian terrorist, after Israel, Iran has the largest Jewish population in the Middle East.
What is your idea about this pic from Tehran:
 -------------
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 14:34
Sorry but if Centrix Vigilis did same thing too, it also show that your sentences is a sentence which can be misinterpreted.
Every religions say similar thing, just it is true one and I am just trying to show that it is in every religion, so you can't fight religion, you can discuss just bad rules or applications.Do you thing I will still support Hamas attacks agaisnt civils after solution of border problem? or Israel can use embargo for guns or gun materials but people in there can't export their goods as flowers and Christian in Gaza couldn't see Pope, because Israel just gave permission for limited people How can you hope, they can feel good things against Israel?  You should know that if you target more small areas. For most of your example, I can support you like execution of mr.x just being non-muslim in Iran or any country. But not your wars agaist Islam or any other religion. In every religion some people killed or are still killing people just for their believes.
Yes, I know Iran large jewish population, but if you put Turkey into Middle East, Turkey has got 2. biggest Jewish population in Middle East.
Are you trying to find my emotinal side? then you can hit . Topic is so mass now. I think Nick86 who started this topic, couldn't guess today's situation. If you open new topic about Armenians, I can share my ideas, tell different perspectives in Turkey and also provide turkish sources with my bad translation------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 05:14
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It is really better to talk about Islam in another thread, let's back to the main topic. I think there can be a Palestinian state after a regime change in Syria and then in Iran, if Hamas and Hizbullah lose their major sponsors, we can hope to see a stability in the region, I believe a non-Islamic regime in Iran will certainly support Israel, during the post-election demonstrations in Iran one of the main slogans was "Death to Gaza", it shows Iranians really hate the terrorists. -------------
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 09:40
Hamas isn't like Al-Qaide. The State of Palestine is governed by democracy and Hamas won the last election so it doesn't seem fair to me, waiting for elected goverment gone. Hamas has 76 seat Fatah has 46 seat (they were last goverment) In my opinion, Palestinians are oppressed side, today. *taking lands, building jewish settelments *refugees *too stick embargo I send photo in UK and Greece to, it is not just about religion. If non-Islamic regime in Iran support Israel, I believe that these Iranian just try to take revenge from their past goverment. That's why they support Israel. I can guarantee it, if Israel go back to 1967 borders, get lighter the embargo(just ban the guns) and Hamas still attack Israeli civils, Turkish goverment and nation support will definately be minimize. Being agaist today's Israel policy is one the unique thing for Turkish left and right politic sides. and slogans like "Death to Gaza" (Iran) or "Arabs to the crematoria"(Israel) and buring Israel flag(Turkey), these acts are just results of anger, madness about Syria, I don't think Esad is a global or reginal threat (but I can't speak for his own country Syria, I don't know). His period is the best time in Syrian-Turkish relations and it is still better than the old bad times. I can understand why Arab countries attack Israel in 1947 because just in 50 years lands demograph really changed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine However, today I support Israel existence(but with 1967 borders ). You can't deny it. Hamas or any Palestinian politic side should recognize Israel existenceMy happy end; *Israel return 1967 borders. *Syria take Golan Heights, then Syria finish support attacks agaist Israeli civils *Refugees in Lebanon and all round the world, return Palestine, it also help to reduce tension in Lebanon and be reason of Hizbullah power decrasing in Lebanon *Palestine recognise Israel and stop attacks *Israel stop miliarty attacks and embargo, also destroy the defense wall *Israel apologies from Turkey, then Turkey start to make politic contact again *Israel change the Jerusalem Law/Basic Law and just make West Jarusalem is capital and all UN accept it(because UN don't accept the Jerusalem Law) http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1980_1989/Basic%20Law-%20Jerusalem-%20Capital%20of%20Israel - http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1980_1989/Basic%20Law-%20Jerusalem-%20Capital%20of%20Israel http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/dde590c6ff232007852560df0065fddb?OpenDocument - http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/dde590c6ff232007852560df0065fddb?OpenDocument ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 17:19
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I think Turkey is looking for a role in this political game, Mullahs of Iran have already played better, they want the full destruction of Israel and have placed their pieces, like Hizbullah, around this country, they are equipping themselves with nuclear weapons and moving toward this purpose. It is clear that if it is happened then Iran will be the major power in the region, so it is better for other powers in the region, like Turkey, that Israel exists but with the least power. Of ocurse the very important role of the United States shouldn't be forgotten, they prefer to increase the power of Israel, as a non-Islamic country, in the region, anyway Palestinians are just some victims in the hands of these powers. -------------
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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 18:49
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The History of the Middle East Conflict in 11 Minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZY8m0cm1oY&feature=player_embedded#! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZY8m0cm1oY&feature=player_embedded#! I originally got this from Walid Shoebat a former PLO terrorist. http://www.shoebat.com/videos/MEconflict.htm - http://www.shoebat.com/videos/MEconflict.htm ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 19:41
Every country play own game, welcome to world one example from Spain Spain always want Gilbraltar but they never think to give spanish cities in cost of Morocco, even small rocky island near Morocco cost. I don't say something like, this land should be this country. But you should be neutral. You can't want to take Gilbraltar and also African lands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island_crisis - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perejil_Island_crisis when I heard the words of nuclear weapons, I remember three things   and japanese girl Sadako Sasaki with Turkish writer Nazım Hikmet's poem, "the little girl" It is me knocking at your door - at how many doors i've been But no one can see me Since the dead are invisible. I died at Hiroshima that was ten years ago I am a girl of seven Dead children do not grow. First my hair caught fire then my eyes burnt out I became a handful of ashes blown away by the wind. I don't wish anything for myself for a child who is burnt to cinders cannot even eat sweets. I'm knocking at your doors aunts and uncles, to get your signatures so that never again children will burn and so they can eat sweets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Sasaki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Sasaki http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmD-QpyYdhk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmD-QpyYdhk nuclear weapons are dangerous in control of any country. For me, nuclear weapons in Iran, Israel, India, France or USA all same and have same danger. Example: USA didn't use it agaist just japanese military force. They used it on cities. @eaglecap, nice video ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 12-Nov-2011 at 17:01
You've been shown a false image of Islam. Idk how things are in Iran but to say that Islamists are real muslims is untrue. What you mentioned about the Christian apostate being killed for leaving Islam, that punishment is not sound and is against Islam and I can prove it. It is mentioned in hadiths that the murtadeen or apostates should be fought and killed at any possible chance. Yet this no longer applies nowadays since it was only valid in the context in which it was said. That being that treason in islam is forbidden and punishable by death. When the hadith was made, Muslims who joined Muhammad had not only pledged to be muslims but also to fight against the pagan Arabs who were more numerous and were on a 'witch-hunt' against muslims. In that context, rejecting the faith meant leaving one's muslim brothers at the hands of the people of Quraysh. So because in those days apostacy was equated with treason, it was punishable by death. Nowadays, to kill someone for apostacy makes no sense since they would not be 'betraying' the muslim community... Again, as for drinking, the punishment is receiving 100 lashes, not death. Same punishment applies to fornication. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2011 at 14:00
Even if what you are saying is so, still all bunch of Islamic countries have apostasy forbidden and punishable - I don't care about the theory, but the practice. So, 100 lashes is just fine then? I bet if I lay 100 lashes on you good you may as well give up the ghost; like the raped Bangladeshi teen who got flogged with 70 I think and died as a result of that. Rape is largely seen as fornication in Islamic view, for what I have seen - with of course the female having to pay for it. So don't buy "false image of Islam" game - I very well see the excesses and the cruelties that are brought by variety of Islamic practices. ------------- |
Posted By: Alyazia
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2012 at 00:27
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jews were always hated through out ancient times until modern time
they think that they're better than everyone just because they're "the children of israel" ------------- (: |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 26-Jun-2012 at 04:13
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Their still reviled by many to include those that have been discussed in the numerous posts above. As to whether they think they are better then others? No more or less then others in defense of a cause or nationalistic identification. Hamas thinks the same.....Hezbollah the same....The fundamentalist, Islamic theological terrorists leading Iran and Syria the same. Pick a place and national group...elements within if not in toto...the same. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |