The first horseman
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30185
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 02:43
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The first horseman
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: The first horseman
Date Posted: 03-Sep-2011 at 20:58
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Which civilisation was the first to domesticate the horse, and how did the nomadic way of life of steppe horsemen like the Mongols come about? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Replies:
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 17:35
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Nick, when looking at domestication, are you looking for those first riding the animals or just domestication?
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 19:03
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The first riding the animals. I'd also like to know which culture was the first to use horses in war ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 17:05
Not sure about domestication and horse-riding but I think the Assyrians were the first to use them in war around the 18th century BCE. Sumerians surely didn't engage in war much and we don't hear anything about them using horses. I even read somewhere that it was because of horses that Assyrians were able to conquer the Akkadians and babylonians so easily. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 20:23
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Don't forget the illustrative panels of the Summerians. Or the treastie of Anitta and Kikkuli...on the other hand we then start mixing the apples with the oranges in that horses were used for a variety of functions in warfare. Transport-chariots (Hittites, Hykos and Egyptians for example) and early forms of Cavalry or mounted Infantry-Artillery in the case of the use of Assyrian archers. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2011 at 20:47
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Viki says eurasian steppes in 4000BC firstly people have thought Ukraine. however according to recent informations, Kazakhstan-Botai culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse newyork times, botai culture http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/science/06horses.html - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/science/06horses.html ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2011 at 15:11
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So the first horsemen were from Kazakhstan? This was around the same time the Sumerians learned to write, the Egyptians made their first mummy and the Indus civilisation was founded ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2011 at 19:57
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Recently the Saudis discovered a city at Al-Maqar where they apparently domesticated horses 9000 years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14658678 - Link ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2011 at 09:59
Very interesting then again ya have the question of what is meant by or how the term domestication is defined. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2011 at 10:04
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Ya might like this:
The Origin and Relationships of the Mustang,
Barb, and Arabian Horse http://www.frankhopkins.com/mustangs.html - http://www.frankhopkins.com/mustangs.html ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2014 at 19:45
There is a strong case to make that the first "horse riders" were from the Pontic Steppe region. The Mongols became nomads due to their ever present need to have fodder and water for their livestock, which included cattle, goats, and most importantly, horses. The horse was a central part of Mongol life. As part of their need to feed their livestock, they also moved on a seasonal basis. When, under Genghis Khan, the Mongol Tribes united into a nation, the numbers involved made it all the more important to keep moving, although they may have settled for months at a time for one reason or another, be it for grazing or warfare. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2014 at 21:40
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I would make a wild guess that any society who depended upon horses for food, would eventually take a foal, from a killed mother and tie it up and take it home with them. One adult or several children, could eventually become friendly with this horse, especially a mare, and make it a domestic animal or even a "lure" for more horses?
It would not take long for these people, who were for the most part, much smarter on average, than modern man, to see benefits for all. Regards, Ron ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2014 at 00:08
I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. The Mongols only ate their horses as a last resort. They occasionally drank their horses blood, mixed with grain, when things were tough. Their staple diet seems to have been a form of gruel mixed with horse or goat milk, and a sour milk drink that, if left for a while, became alcoholic. They also ate cheese made from horse milk. As for children befriending the horses, this was simply not the case, children were taught from an early age to revere their horses, but not to make pets of them. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2014 at 14:36
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toyomotor. I think you miss read my post, where I wrote "I would make a wild guess that any society who depended upon horses for food, would eventually take a foal, from a killed mother and tie it up and take it home with them." Note the key words "...any society who depended upon horses for food..." I never mentioned the Mongols at all.
Regards, Ron ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2014 at 18:51
Ron, my apologies. Perhaps I also misread your intent when you wrote, "....depended on horses for food" as actually eating horses, rather using them for hunting etc. Regards Ian |
Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2014 at 01:30
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Oh i thought it might be about the first horseman of the apocalypse.... There were horses in the "prehistoric" Americas. Atlantis/Poseidon account had horse/s. Biblical seems to imply Ashkenaz? I think McEvedy says that the Huns, Mongols etc learnt it from Iranian Scythians/Tocharians? Ogus Khan supposedly invaded middle east in ancient times, perhaps he was horseman? Maybe Nimrod/Ninurta was a horserider as a huntsman? There is a dispute that exodus wasn't until after Hyksos because Hyksos first known horse/chariot, though there is evidence there were chariots and/or horses? earlier eg Herodotus says they were lost in Sesostris reign (12th dyn). Does the white horse of Uffingdon count maybe? Sorry can't think straight, full of poison fluoride because the authorities won't stop poisoning/fluoridating my water & me here & i can't always/keep gettting out down to next "city" to get water. "Petroglyphs from the Uzbek SSR (dating from the 2nd or 3rd millenium bc) provide archaeological corroboration of linguistic evidence that the Indoeuropeans had chariots. Wheeled vehicles, such as those drawn here, facilitated agriculture and the migrations that resulted from a growing hunger for land." - the conqueror manifesto by seirizzim 1993. I once noticed the carts of Sumer were ox-drawn like the philistines in bible. I like toyomotors bit about the gruel and sour milk, i wish i was able to have something like that but this miserable system and my cursed condition (if God doesn't save me) i can't. Reminds me of bit in Hitler's table talk about Spartans cruel being superior to bread. (I'm not necessarily Nazi but I like to know about many different views/ideas/angles. Tho if God doesn't save me and they dont stop poisoning my water maybe i will be, tho problem is the nazis also used fluoride in camps. Sorry for the diversion offtopic.) horses in myth: tulpar rakush (tishtriya apaosha) [asvins] kalki togarmah, 4 horsemen of apocalypse, rider on the white horse, [burak?] peruwa/pirwa/za-parwa pegasus scyphius (poseidon) (atlantis) centaurs, trojan horse, unicorn, arion sleipnir hrimfaxi yggdrasil? epona/echoiad, white horse of uffington, horsa, herne/herla ps The "parthian shot". The tactic of the Parthians of faking retreat and turning in their saddles to shot down pursuers which was later the tactic of the Mongols. (Might be related to the tails of the scorpion-locusts in Revelation?) |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2014 at 19:53
| See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 15-Jan-2014 at 22:31
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A-R, and Toy......,what wonderful postings!
But you do know that the average horse wants, in the strongest part of its brain, want to dislodge anything from it's back! Thus, nanana, the stations of breaking a horse for riding! But a colt or mare taken as a child and played with and ridden by children, etc., might well have lost this repulsion over the centuries by at least one society? RON ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2014 at 00:26
I don't know what you're getting at. Certainly if a horse was closely raised by humans as a pet some of it's fear would dissipate. But we were talking about "The First Horsemen" not farmyard pets. When talking about nomadic tribes such as the Mongols, the Hunns etc., it was not in their culture to use horses as pets, although an individual may have had a predisposition to his own horse. In case you've been drinking again, I re-iterate, the nomadic horsemen DID NOT use horses as pets. Capice? ------------- |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2014 at 21:35
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Capice? Certainly the domestication of the horse had to start somewhere, and I speculate that it occurred within a society that considered horses mostly as food! Just what is wrong with that speculation? Certainly a lot more speculation has been displayed concerning such questions.
If you really are Italian, then you do "capice!" Regards, Ron ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2014 at 22:28
Ron, what you are saying is pure speculation on your part. I don't know of any civilisation which considered horses purely as food, but I can't say positively that were none. What I can say is that the Mongols DID NOT consider their horses as a primary source of food. When times were really tough they would kill a horse to eat, but as a last resort. Before getting to that stage, they would draw blood from a horses vein, mix it with mares milk and drink it. NOTE I'm only referring to the Mongols. But if you have sources that show people who ate horse meat as a primary food, please post those sources. ------------- |