Alternative History: Alternative World War II

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Alternative World War II

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Alternative History
Forum Discription: Discussion of Unorthodox Historical Theories & Approaches
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30089
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 10:49
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Alternative World War II

Posted By: ahoward_84
Subject: Alternative World War II
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 13:42

If Hitler had not invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, would Stalin have invaded Germany? How did you come to your conclusion?

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Andy

Replies:

Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2011 at 19:18

Operation Barbarossa came as a shock to Stalin. He genuinely believed he could coexist with Hitler

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!

Posted By: tjadams
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2011 at 19:29

I don't see Stalin moving in such an aggressive direction. As Nick wrote the German

invasion, while not unknown to Soviet spies, paralyzed Stalin. I feel he thought the

Non-Aggression Pact was an iron-clad protector against German invasion (they

did enjoy slicing in twain poor Poland)

I just don't see Stalin spring boarding into an attack on a very potent Germany.

Posted By: PanzerOberst
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2011 at 01:50

Am not entirely certain but I think I did read somewhere that the Germans were reasonably sure knew that Stalin would invade once Germany was mired in war with the west. Have to double check but I think it was in Guderian's book.

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"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows"
- Heinz W. Guderian

Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2011 at 19:25

I suppose it's possible. There seemed to have been a high level of mutual distrust even when the Nazis and Russians were allies

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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!

Posted By: Michael Mckean
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2012 at 20:12

I really do not believe Stalin would have invaded Germany, because once the Germans had secured all of mainland Europe and conquered Britain or knocked them out of the war they would simply be too strong. Stalin would probably want to share the riches with the Nazis eg receiving pieces of land etc.

Its really hard to say though, depending on what the circumstances would be.

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The sun never sets on the British Empire

Posted By: nickherc
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2014 at 05:42

He would definitely invade in the moment Germany would be weak from fighting with Allies. Stalin was a smart guy, cruel, but smart, he knew how to play the game.
Hitler really surprised him good.

Posted By: mary_boeding
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2015 at 05:21

Actually, I think yes. I think that Stalin would have invaded Germany. Hitler just started the war first in 2 weeks earlier than Stalin wanted to do it. There is a lot of literature from russians soldiers who were with Stalin, so you can read about it a lot.

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Posted By: J.A.W.
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2015 at 00:53

Stalin had a top-notch intel network, & must've had a summary of 'Mein Kampf'..

He was more likely surprised by Churchill's support than by Hitler's attack..

So he got to 'have his cake & eat it too' - & Poland/Prussia.. etc, paid the price..

Posted By: AnchoritSybarit
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2016 at 03:22

Is it not more likely that Stalin's paralysis at the onset of Barbarossa was due his chagrin at being out played by Hitler. His intelligence agencies gave him the stock interpretation that Hitler would and could not attack Russia until they had first dispatched England and it would take the Wehrmacht at least another year to ramp up production to be completely ready to invade Russia.

If you examine the work that the Russians did in the interval between the occupation of East Poland and Barbarossa, you will see that they did not establish layered defense zones, indicating a defensive mind set. Rather they built linear positions best suited to funneling men/material in an offensive strike.

We've all heard/read the revelations that came out after Stalin's death that it was in fact his intention to strike as soon as his own forces reached full strength.

Finally, I don't think either Hitler or Stalin ever rivalled Einstein for brain power. But Stalin definitely won the low IQ battle between the two. This after all is the man that eviscerated his own officer corp out of paranoia. This is the man that introduced the peculiar Soviet institution of cooking the books.

The plan says you have to produce so many tons of concrete, you say you produced it. The plan says you must produce 10,000 T-38's well you just don't mention the fact that 60% of them have to be pushed out of the factory door. This after all is the man that had the entire Census Bureau sent to the gulags because they contradicted the glorious leader's pronouncement that under Communism Russia's population would increase and they had the audacity to add up the numbers and say he was incorrect.

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What I have I hold.

Posted By: Xenophon
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2017 at 04:13

Ever see The History Boys? The way the instructor trashed "subjunctive history." Once you say, "if," there's no limit to what you can postulate. Or, like we used to say in Texas, "If a bull-frog had wings, he wouldn't whomp his butt every time he jumped!"

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Victrix causa diis placuit, sed victa catoni