The scourge of god
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2997
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 06:38
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The scourge of god
Posted By: yan.
Subject: The scourge of god
Date Posted: 15-Apr-2005 at 17:10
| Who was it? Attila or Genghis Khan - or none of them? |
Replies:
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 15-Apr-2005 at 20:25
| The Europeans gave that title to Atilla. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 16-Apr-2005 at 22:40
|
No actually I am pretty sure the title was originally given to Timur Lenk by Christopher Marlowe, and then much later after that it was erroneously applied to Atilla. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: yan.
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2005 at 08:56
|
On the web it seems like Timur is said to have called himself 'the scourge of god' in Damascus, while Genghis is said to have said something like "I am the scourge of God. If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me." in Bukhara.
The second "quote" looks clearly like european wishful thinking. Just wondering what the primary source for that speech is. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2005 at 16:03
|
ATTILA was the scourge of god ------------- |
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2005 at 23:10
| That speech is known to be by Cengiz Han, but not with the scourge of god part you put in the begining. I'm just about 100% sure Atilla was the scourge of god. |
Posted By: yan.
Date Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 04:27
|
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 11:40
| Who knows? I don't remember every source I look into. This is something that I just know. You asked a question, I answered with full confidence in my answer, believe it or don't believe it, that's up to you. |
Posted By: yan.
Date Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 13:54
| Could it have been Juvaini? Really just courious, maybe I'll try and find out by myself tomorrow : ) . |
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 22:52
| What's Juvaini? |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 22:59
|
Chingiz Qaan called himself the "Flail of God," not the Scourge of God, according to one translation of his quotes. I think Attila's Scourge of God title comes from a 16th century medalion, which may have gotten it from somewhere else. I don't think he was called by that earlier. ------------- |
Posted By: Scytho-Sarmatian
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 04:35
|
Did the Romans have any nickname for Attila? Or, was he just referred to as Attila?
"Excuse me for living, Attila." --Line from a T.V. show I saw years ago. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 06:56
Should continue as " .....and excuse me speaking to you like my existence is not enough." ------------- |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 12:30
No, just Attila Rex Hunnorum ------------- |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 13:54
|
correct. ------------- |
Posted By: yan.
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 14:10
|
Juvaini used to be governor of Bagdad, a long time ago. And he seems indeed to be the primary source for that "god sent me to punish you" quote. |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 16:10
|
flagellum -i n. [a whip , scourge; the thong of a javelin; a
young sprout, vine-shoot]; plur. [the arms of a polypus]; fig., [the
sting of conscience]. Dei means "of God" ------------- |
Posted By: yan.
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 16:51
|
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2010 at 19:11
|
What a wonderful claptrap of bull!
As an example from the above post; "Originally posted by Imperator Invictus flagellum -i n. [a whip , scourge; the thong of a javelin; a young sprout, vine-shoot]; plur. [the arms of a polypus]; fig., [the sting of conscience]. Dei means "of God" I suspected flagellum could be translated into flail as well, but I am somewhat ignorant on such details. Anyway, the more important question would be whether what Juvaini wrote in Persian really translates to flail rather than scourge." It seems most obvious to me that to "flail" would be an alternative word for "scourge!" Actually I would suggest that when one takes the decision to punish ones body, then one would use a "flail" or "Whip" or a "cat o'nine tales", etc., to beat their own bodies, and the after math of such a beating are the scars, which would, in my humble opinion, merely be called the "Scorge!" But, as always, I could well be wrong, since I did not look up a single word! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: p,c,ma
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2010 at 18:05
|
The name the scourge of god was given to Atilla by the church to explain why Rome could not beat them, and god did not protect them. So they said he was a punishment for their sins. ------------- |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2010 at 20:54
And then certain Wester European Christians began to "flail" or beat their own bodies to contain the "sin" that allowed such terror to enter their nations! Flagallation, spelling be damned, is a regular part of Christian history! As is "self mutilation!" As is the "mutliation" of their enemies! I.e., the taking of their "eyes", or "ears", or "hands" or "Penisuses" (damn the plural), or "hands", or "balls", etc.! Sometimes even "self mutilation" was considered as sacred! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: p,c,ma
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2010 at 21:30
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Which doesn't make sense when you consider it was the sin of the people they were being punished for, not their personal ones, but people do stupid things. ------------- |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2010 at 18:01
It is pretty sure, if one believes in Atilla at all, that he did not give a rats ass, about any gods, but only in gold, etc.! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: p,c,ma
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2010 at 20:53
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Yeah I'm sorry but I've never bought the story that Pope Leo convinced him to turn away. ------------- |
Posted By: Blood and Suicide
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2010 at 06:08
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European scourge of God belongs to such as the words of martin luther the Turkish goddamn, was the scourge of god, also with Atilla Cengiz Han Cengiz Han came can not be compared is the greatest commander ------------- DO NOT SCORN A WEAK CUB HE MAY BECOME THE BRUTAL TIGER |
Posted By: p,c,ma
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2010 at 21:18
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Martin Luther wasn't living till long after Atilla's death though. ------------- |