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Huns and mongols were all caucasian!!

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29851
Printed Date: 27-May-2020 at 06:40
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Topic: Huns and mongols were all caucasian!!
Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Subject: Huns and mongols were all caucasian!!
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2011 at 01:53

There is NO reliable contemprary source from either East or West ever say huns were mongoloid, but an official persian historian working for Mongol Empire under Kublai Khan says Ghengis Khan was a caucasian. The misconception about huns and mongols were mongoloid was only spreaded during the colonial ages, when europeans were tended to view chinese, japanese and other mongoloid natives in America and Australia as savages, arrogantly linking them with their much scorned historical huns and mongols, but in fact, the misconception was just like the Nasal Index in indian caste system proposed by british anthropologists, which is totally WRONG and found on deliberate distortion of history.

I challenge everyone of you to find any quote from any source to prove Huns and mongols were mongoloid, if you failed, you must admit europeans are more hunnic and mongolic than east asians. LOL



Replies:
Posted By: Snafu
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2011 at 18:27
Nonsense.

The Huns may be up for debate because they were of mixed groups, but the Mongols were definitely NOT white people. There is proof of this because the Mongol rulers of China all had official court portraits made. And except for Genghis Khan and possibly his son Ogedai, they were all alive when these paintings were done. If they were white, would they have allowed these to be their official court portraits?




Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2011 at 20:42

Clap HAHAHA, Those paintings were from 19 century, 500 years after Mongols fall, 700 years after Ghengish Khans death. BTW NO chinese ever saw Ghengish Khan in person and his sons during mongol empire. You failed.



Posted By: Snafu
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 00:06
No, those are from the Yuan dynasty. Many copies were made in later years, but these originals are from the 13th & 14th centuries.

The portrait of Khubilai is famous and is well documented as being from the 13th century. It was painted by a Nepalese artist and sculptor named Anige (1245-1306) who served Khubilai for 40 years and was very close to him. Anige also painted the portrait of Khubilai's wife, Chabi (who also isn't white).

Since the other portraits are in a similar style I'm assuming Anige or his sons or students did them.


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 00:58
There are NO Yuan dynasty paintings, they are never carbon dated. I have seen the controversy over their age and still not settled. There is only one alleged Yuan dynasty painting and other other in Taiwan is clearly an 17 century product. These are NOT from Yuan dynasty, but much later period.
 
Also yo have to notice, some of them have red beard.. Ancint chinese artists do not know how to highligh the racial features, all foreigners were painted the way they painted chinese.
 
http://www.wendag.com/images/titans/tochworthies.jpg - http://www.wendag.com/images/titans/tochworthies.jpg
 
Tell me which of them is mongoloid?


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 01:11
Even some of his sons looked mongoloid only to be explained by race mixing, Ghengis Khan may had many mongoloid women as wife since siberians and all chinese were under his rule.


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 01:23
Ghengis Khan and his sons had mongoloid wifes does not mean the mongols and Ghengis Khan were mongoloid, like spaniards raping of amerindians and intermarriage does not prove chinese and japanese were conquistadores. The mongols came from western asia, they were the colonizers of Siberia where the mongoloids dwelled. They forced those tribes to assimilated, took their women, and killed part of them. None of chinese source ever described Ghengis Khan as a mongoloid like having black hair or black eyes, just say he was tall, fat, old.
 
Another fact, obesity is higher in western countries than in any east asian countries. Racid Al Hamadani the official chronicler of Persia under Mongol empire called Ghengis Khan as red haired, bleu eyed man, but suprised to find his SON kublai Khan does not have red hair(race-mixing).
 
The golden hordes graves in Siberia and historical khanate estates turnd out all pure europids, middle easterners, turks. None of them have mongoloid admixture.
 
Mongol conquest in West Asia left NO genetic traces of mongoloids, the highest rate of mongoloid admixture in Europe happens in Finland and Estonia where mongols never reached.  The rise of Mongols were like those of colonized southamerica, westerners came, killed, raped and forced their cultures and languages, assimilated them into the empire, so the forced siberians were later mistaken to be the mongols. The better proof is race mixing ensued after Mongol empire happened not in the west BUT in Siberia and central Asia, and central asian have higher western admixtures than mongoloid admixtures. If the trand of eastward race mixing explains how Mongols started, it was the east that was invaded first not the west, the invasions came from the west to east, conquered China and went back west again.
 
Because of colonial and chinese propaganda(out of shame), people only were made to believe mongols were mongoloid recently, in historical records, chinese called the mongols as people with colorful eyes(Semuren), they brought Islam into China, and raped a lot of local women, massacred a lot of people.
 


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 02:01
Agree with you that for white people,all Asia people look the same,as for other color people white people are all the same.Tell me newest theory about origin of Asia nations.How did they evolve?Migrations,natives,
interconnections with others?Have you investigated DNA all around?Your DNA today,have been compared with DNA of ancient necropolises ever?  


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 02:13
In the history of Mongol empire, we missed a basic element: colonialism. Western colonialism started as early as the mythical age recorded in Mahabharata, the aryan invasion was the first recorded colonialism. The aryans did what mongols and huns did, they conquered, raped, massacred. The western colonialism has always been continueing untill this very day.
 
The huns and mongols were part of the long history of western colonialism, the mongoloid siberians and mongolians were the very first victims. Taking the colonialism into account, all puzzles about Mongol empire can be solved easily:
 
Why there is linguistic relationship between mongolian language and persian language?
 
Why Ghengis Khan was called a red haired man?
 
Why and how Islam came into China?
 
Why Mongol empire made chinese 3rd class citizen? Why there were people with colorful eyes(色目人) in China during Yuan dynasty?
 
Why Yuan Dynasty is so out of place in the whole history of East Asia? Why of all chinese 5000 years of dynastic history only mongols Yuan dynasty considered the most destructive?
 
Why there is no mongoloid admixtures in Wester Asia? Why mongoloid admixtures only happened in Scandinavia?
 
Why siberians and mongolians? what is their relationship?
 
Why mongols were so fierce? Later to be compared only to Ottoman empire and the recent colonial ages.
 
Why the mughals were caucasian?
 
Where are the massive mongols hordes?----------Russians, arabs, turks, europeans, all of them were the mongols.
 
What happens to Siberia now, thos helpless little mongoloid tribes got driven to and fro by the soviets and russians?
 
 
 


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 02:38
Agree with you that for white people,all Asia people look the same,as for other color people white people are all the same.Tell me newest theory about origin of Asia nations.How did they evolve?Migrations,natives,
interconnections with others?Have you investigated DNA all around?Your DNA today,have been compared with DNA of ancient necropolises ever?  
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
In chinese historical paintings, the racial difference was only highlighted by hair color and dress, you can refer to tocharians in chinese paintings. They do not look different from chinese except for the beard.
 
Ancient India, Siberia from 5000BC--4000BC all had been terriroty of mongoloid natives, western cauasians came into Siberian and invaded India from 3000BC and drove them into modern day Japanese, korean, chinese territories. Proably some siberians escaped into northamerica, and even western scandinavia, it was likely how eskimos and saamis, lapps, nenets appeared. India was later mixed up by the invading westerners because they found rich land there. China was also under invasion, western asians were genetically proven in Shandong province 2500 years ago.
Of course, they were not the cultural bringers, but destroyers.
 
The west invaded East Asia since 3000BC, India, Mongolia were the products of the same sort of invasion, post-colonial asian countries.


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 02:47
Westerners should stop calling asian hordes or yellow peril, to fit the truth: western hordes, the white peril. East asians have NEVER invaded the west, it is us which used to have been invaded, raped, massacred.


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 03:05
Have you investigated DNA all around?
---------------------------------------------------
 
Indians dna stretches apart at east asia and west, proving a scenario of conquest:
 
http://usera.ImageCave.com/Binarigamma/indiafem.jpg - http://usera.ImageCave.com/Binarigamma/indiafem.jpg
 
http://usera.ImageCave.com/Binarigamma/indiamales.jpg - http://usera.ImageCave.com/Binarigamma/indiamales.jpg
 
 


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 09:11
As I have already supposed it.I am so far away from those places,with my body and mind.Let me search DNA results!Those are DNA inside people that have inhabited Asia in ancient times or  that live here today?
Were those results compared with ancient necropolises results?


Posted By: unclefred
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 11:50
Your racist postings have gotten you banned elsewhere.


Posted By: Snafu
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 14:36
The Khitans were mongoloid. And they ranked higher than the Chinese in the Yuan dynasty. If the Mongols were westerners who hated Asians, wouldn't they have put the Khitans with the Chinese?

The caste system of the Mongols wasn't based on race. It was based on who they trusted the most and on seniority. The Han Chinese were the last to be conquered, so they ranked the lowest.  
 


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 16:08
But if he was right about Persian,influence than racial and ethnic conflicts were more than obvious.We have same situation on European soil.Rome and Byzantine,ruled the world on same way.Modern world conflicts on European&African territories in last two centuries were nothing less than ethnic cleanse and populism.
Agree with you,Uncle,that best story teller do not use insults&simple words,but facts!So,here you are Wadjet,i found your story interesting,just calm down!Regards.


Posted By: Snafu
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 16:55
Everyone agrees that the people of the steppes and Siberia had mixed racial heritage. Western groups did come in and interbreed with the native Mongoloid populations. But that doesn't make the people of the steppe "white". It makes them mixed. I don't believe the native elements were wiped out or driven away. In fact I think they remained dominant.

Wadjet is overestimating the effect western groups had because he wants the Mongols to be evil white men. He also seems to be under the impression that only white people are capable of widespread death and destruction. Tell that to the people of Nanking or Manchuria. Was the Imperial Japanese army also made up of white men? What about all the internal bloodshed that happened in China over the centuries? Was it all perpetrated by white spies? The Mongols didn't introduce violence to a peaceful land. They were just the best at being violent because they came from a harsh land.

White people are guilty of enough REAL atrocities in the world. You don't really need to start making up new ones or borrowing the atrocities of others.


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 19:04
Everyone agrees that the people of the steppes and Siberia had mixed racial heritage. Western groups did come in and interbreed with the native Mongoloid populations. But that doesn't make the people of the steppe "white". It makes them mixed. I don't believe the native elements were wiped out or driven away. In fact I think they remained dominant.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
They were cearly not dominant since they do not have white female mtdna, but ychms admxiture.
Their language is also more related to persians, and their tribalistic cultures could not be in anyway dominant over the imperialistic westerners, it is simple truth.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wadjet is overestimating the effect western groups had because he wants the Mongols to be evil white men. He also seems to be under the impression that only white people are capable of widespread death and destruction. Tell that to the people of Nanking or Manchuria. Was the Imperial Japanese army also made up of white men? What about all the internal bloodshed that happened in China over the centuries? Was it all perpetrated by white spies? The Mongols didn't introduce violence to a peaceful land. They were just the best at being violent because they came from a harsh land.
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Evil does not sudden sprang out of you, it is have been evil all along, from India to huns to mongols to colonialism. I have stated, mongol invasion is the MOST destructive dynasty chinese ever had, so many chinese scholars believe to more destrutive than japanese invasion.
 
Japan invasion was a nationalistic invasion, meant to drive out colonists, given a background of threatening west. There was a gang of bigger savages behind them, that is why. Mao thanked Japan for her invasion, if not for them China would have been split by russian, and american and other western colonists.
 
http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=chukchi&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g-g1g1g-g1g1g-g1g1g-g4&aql=&oq - http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=chukchi&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g-g1g1g-g1g1g-g1g1g-g4&aql=&oq =
 
http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=evenki&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq - http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=evenki&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq =
 
http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=eskimo&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq - http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=eskimo&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq =
 
Dont tell me they are capable of invading this:
 
http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=vikings&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq - http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=vikings&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq =
 
http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=turks&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq - http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=turks&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq =
 
http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=muslim&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq - http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=muslim&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&hl=zh-CN&um=1&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq =
 
Where is the mongoloid mongol dna left in central asians?
 
http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/_medium_y-haplogroups-1500ad-world-map.png - http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/_medium_y-haplogroups-1500ad-world-map.png
 
 
 


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 19:16

The Khitans were mongoloid. And they ranked higher than the Chinese in the Yuan dynasty. If the Mongols were westerners who hated Asians, wouldn't they have put the Khitans with the Chinese?
------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Khitans were not mongols, mongols rised after Khitans were defeated by the mongols. Khitans disliked the mongols and tried to drive them out of Siberia and China. And Khitans were a mixed group of koreans and caucasians since khitans were split into 2 class during mongols rule, one is semuren,another is 3rd class chinese, proving my point that caucasians dominated mongols.
 
 


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 19:59
Huns were probably mixed or maybe even more caucasian, but no way mongols were caucasian. Mongols came from today's Mongolia and all mongolians are mongoloid


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:11
Mongols came from today's Mongolia and all mongolians are mongoloid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
What if Mongolia was occupied by caucasians, and mongolians were raped siberians? Just like brazilian indians are mongoloid does not proved Brazil was found by the mongoloid indians.
 
Mongolians=/mongols, Mongol empire was founded by invading western caucasians, mongolians today are a remnant of siberians who were forced to assimilate.
 
Mongolian mongols were left in mongolia, while the caucasian mongols were ravaging across Eurasia, that is why there is very few caucasian traces left, they were assimilated into mongolian gene pool totally. The western admixtures within modern mongolians prove this. There are 5% R1a, R1b within mongolians, but there is no caucasian female mtdna found.
 
 
 


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:18
Western colonialism does not bring cultures always, and current superior perception of western civilization is also hypocritical. If you get this straight you can see the truth easily. All western colonialism is characterised by martial conquest, massacres, raping. The economy was also found on resources robbed. In ancient times when caucasians are less cultured but it did not stop them from being colonists. It is all the same invasion, infiltration, massacres.
 
Mongol empire =/Mongolia, just like Indian reservation=/the United States or Brazil government.
 
Mongol empire was a kingdom ravaging the whole Eurasia for 400 years, Mongolia was just a small country with no population, resource, culture to enable any form of conquest. The fallacy of Mongolia being Mongol empire is obvious but people are tended to ignore it, I am sure many people have wondered? This question: Where the were the powerful mongols??? They just vanished?
 
No, they are in Russia, America, Turky, Europe, Western Asia, Middle East.  
 
 


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:55
By my theory  the apparent discepancy between chinese and mongol culture, and between siberian and mongol culture can be explained. Why the tame, split minor siberians could have been able to conquer 80% of Eurasia? No, they were never able to do so, just they were forced to do so.
 
Mongolians except for their western admixture, they are genetically SIBERIANS, AND PROVEN.
 
What made them one mongolian and another siberian? The Mongol Empire. Just search for siberian mongoloid people like evenkis, nenets, eskimos, chukchis, saamis, lapps, tell me when they invaded any country, created any empire, or if they are able to do any form of resistance against the weakest government. Those mongoloid tribes have been in northern siberian for 10000 years, not untill mongols came they were never considered as invaders,they are the lest criminal people on the surface of Earth, oneday they suddenly became invaders and now returned to their ancient character before. Can you believe this????
 
Or some foreign force intervene, forced them to assimilate, to join their army, to serve their course, which one is more credible?
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:57
All concerned.
 
Interesting and informative exchange here...
Keep it level... keep it civil.... keep it clean..... Wadjet strive real real hard to keep out anti-nationalistic and nationalistic bias or predilections past or present.
 
Re-read....http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&FID=68&PR=3 especially para six and the attached appendix.
 
If ya can't do this I will do it for you...trust me.
 
Now all carry on....and discuss it the way all are capable of.Thumbs Up


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 22:19
Siberians are no nomadic steppe people, they are arctic, ice faring people. They live on deer herding, arctic fishing like eskimo, it is their true culture.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 02:29
There were people from Siberia,Persia,India and China.Those were basic DNA carriers in ancient time as you have told us above.After those invasions,what have left from them?Who did take habitat to(or left DNA?) whom?Where did defeated live now?It looks as vampire invasion or aliens attack(info missing?)to me,cause during small time period everything have changed as it is today!If similar things had not happened here I would have not believed it at all.All libraries about Pre Christ period had vanished all around the world in the same time?It could be aliens attack,more than obvious.LOL


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 03:07
Medenaywe, you mostly write unintelligible posts, only sentence I can make out is where did the defeated live?
 
In Mongolia, where the mongols frist conquered.
 
In China, they conquered the whole China,
 
In western Eurasia, where the conquered and conquers live togather.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 03:48
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

Medenaywe, you mostly write unintelligible posts, only sentence I can make out is where did the defeated live?
 
In Mongolia, where the mongols frist conquered.
 
In China, they conquered the whole China,
 
In western Eurasia, where the conquered and conquers live togather.

Excuse me, Wadjet Horus, do not insult people by saying they have "unintelligible posts". You must be polite and ask for points to be clarified.


-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: khun
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 05:37
FYI

Mongolia marks many historic anniversaries this year. For instance, in connection with the 2220th Anniversary of the Founding of Mongolia's Statehood – "Hunnu Empire" (Southern Huns or Xianu Empire) – a Peace Festival of Nations of Hunnu Origin is going to be organised in Ulaanbaatar. Representatives of 33 countries have been invited to attend this great event.



Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 06:41
Originally posted by khun

FYI

Mongolia marks many historic anniversaries this year. For instance, in connection with the 2220th Anniversary of the Founding of Mongolia's Statehood – "Hunnu Empire" (Southern Huns or Xianu Empire) – a Peace Festival of Nations of Hunnu Origin is going to be organised in Ulaanbaatar. Representatives of 33 countries have been invited to attend this great event.

 
Yes, I also celebrate Valentine, my friends celebrate Xmas.
 
I have already said, mongols gained resources and technology from China, and conquered Siberia and China before they went to the west.
 
Tell me about chariots and horses in Central Asia dating from 2000BC, tocharians in western China since 1800BC. Whatever, western china have been mixed up since 4000 years ago, and mongoloid mixtures happens in scandinavia where have only been invaded by russians and nazis.  What ever the Hunnu was, they are not far from being western caucasians.


Posted By: AmirT
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 14:59
I must say that OP is quite ignorant.

If you say that Mongols were Caucasian then YOUmust provide the prove.

Many Turkic tribes who lived in Central-Asia (Tatars for example) at first had conflicts but after they joined Genkhis Khan.

They were known for their horsemanship, did you ever tried to ride a horse in the mountains of the Caucasus at the same way as the Mongols did?
People living in the steppe is the most logical answer to this.




Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 20:42
Originally posted by AmirT

I must say that OP is quite ignorant.

If you say that Mongols were Caucasian then YOUmust provide the prove.

Many Turkic tribes who lived in Central-Asia (Tatars for example) at first had conflicts but after they joined Genkhis Khan.

They were known for their horsemanship, did you ever tried to ride a horse in the mountains of the Caucasus at the same way as the Mongols did?
People living in the steppe is the most logical answer to this.


 
The proof is western asians had been left pure western asians, and central asia has been mixed up by europids more than by mongoloids. Genetics show the mixing caused by Mongol empire is from the west toward the east, did any conquered ask to be mixed up?
 
Also all the so called mongoloid Ghengis Khan haplogroup  happens only in eastern Eurasia and China, but Mongol empire controlled 80% Eurasia, why is that ?
 
Lets check out central asian and western asians DNA: Sleepy
 
1-y-chromosome R1a:
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haplogroup R1a is the subclade of R with the highest frequencies. Haplogroup R is found in very high frequencies in Turk tribes and ancient Turk graves, for example it is found in Xiongnu Turk graves. Some of the very interesting results of R in Turks(and also Mongols and Tungusics) are: 95,0% in Bashkirs, 92,9% in Altaians, 82,5% in Khotons, 80,0% in Tuvinians, 78,4% in Shors, 44,0% in Turkiye, and a lot more of these high frequencies.
 
 
2-y-chromosome I
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As for haplogroup I, we must know the fact that many of the Balkan nations are of Turk origin, and have roots in Central Asia/Mongolia. Haplogroup I is found 53,7% in Bosniacs, 40,0% in Tatars, 31,6% in Gagauz's, and also in the study Keyser et. al. 2003(
http://turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=4533 - http://turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=4533 ), 4/27 haplotypes match with haplogroup I, this is very important, as the Keyser et. al. 2003 studies is about ancient Xiongnu Turk graves in Mongolia. This is the reason for the map of I to begin from Mongolia, because if there is evidence of 2000 year old haplogroup I in Mongolia, then the origin should lie there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
3-y-chromosome J:
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets begin with haplogroup J, let me proof you the Turk origin of haplogroup J.

Haplogroup J is found with 72,0%(1. Place Ranking) in Avar Turks in the study Yunusbaev et. al. 2006. In Azerbaijan Turks(in studies Zerjal et. al. 2002, Wells et. al. 2001, Giacomo et. al. 2004, Murci et. al. 2001, Nasidze et. al. 2004) Haplogroup J frequencies are: 57,9%(1. Place Ranking), 48,0%(1. Place Ranking), 39,1%, 34,0%(1. Place Ranking), 31,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Kumik Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 46,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Uzbek Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 34,7%(1. Place Ranking).
In Uygur Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 34,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Xiongu Hun Turk Graves there is also found one Haplogroup J. And a lot more data available at
http://www.turktoresi.com/ - http://www.turktoresi.com .

Haplogroup G ıs found with 86,7%(1. Place Ranking) in Kazak Turks(Bíró et. al. 2009). Even this is enough data. And i have already discussed Haplogroup I.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?26415-Turkish-Dna-Research-of-Haplogroups-C-E-G-I-J-L-N-Q-R-and-T - w w w. eupedia. com/ forum/ showthread.   php?26415-Turkish-Dna-Research-of-Haplogroups-C-E-G-I-J-L-N-Q-R-and-T   (just to disable the hotlink)
 
 
Now the question is:

 
Where is the mongoloid Mongol admixture???
 
The mongoloid mongols are here:
 
Distribution of The supposed Ghengis Khan and mongol haplogroup C3.
 
 
 
From " The genetic legacy of the Mongols " The study was based on the premise that mongols were mongoloid. So we have that, most mongoloid mongols turned out to be east asians or western chinese hybrids. If we took mongol as mongoloids, mongoloid mongols left their genetic footprints only in East Asia. And turks, middle easterners, western asians are as pure as they can be. Also mind, whatever the mongol haplogroup is, there are more western admixture present within western China population.
 
The mongols, they were pale skinned caucasians from central asia, descendents of the tocharians. Dont forget, europid dominated central asia since 2000BC.
 
Summing up the genetic and historical facts, it is very clearly that mongols and huns were all caucasian, they descended from neolithic europids from Central Asia, like Andronovo and Afanasievo Cultures. The turks and mongols did come from Mongolia, but before that, they came from the west during the neolithic age and conquered Siberia and Mongolia since 500BC and assimilated a part of siberian native(now the mongolians). Just like Colonists came from the west, conquered natives, and then went back to the west again.  It is not that Mongolia was their homeland, but it was where they conquered. Their homeland was the west.
 
 
 


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 09:05

In regards to China, who are the indigenous people of north China and are there any still existing as distict people?

South China seems to have indigenous population such as Miao and Yi peoples.  Are these people truly the indigenous people in south China?  Also are Miao and Yi historically asiatic people, or are they historicaly Australoid people who have mixed with asiatic people and today have an asiatic appereance?
 
I am asking these questions because the indigenous people in south India are negrito and Australoid. Ainu people from Japan are also Australoid (light complected).  Maybe Australoid migration went Africa - India - Sri Lanka - Burma and then north into China and Japan.   


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 10:20
Originally posted by Cryptic

In regards to China, who are the indigenous people of north China and are there any still existing as distict people?

South China seems to have indigenous population such as Miao and Yi peoples.  Are these people truly the indigenous people in south China?  Also are Miao and Yi historically asiatic people, or are they historicaly Australoid people who have mixed with asiatic people and today have an asiatic appereance?
 
I am asking these questions because the indigenous people in south India are negrito and Australoid. Ainu people from Japan are also Australoid (light complected).  Maybe Australoid migration went Africa - India - Sri Lanka - Burma and then north into China and Japan.   
 
The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
 
Prehistorical China is not as haplogroup-ward unified as today. Haplogroup D, C, Q ,N were attested in considerable perentage( 30-50%) in neolithic sites dating from 90000BC to 3000BC. They are found in central northern and southern China along with haplogroup O1-2-3. It was untill 1300BC, typical haplogroup O population started to become a majority as we see today. I do not consider ainus and jomons as non-mongoloid or australoid, theire major haplogroups are D and C, which cluster closely to O and N. Only haplogroup Q belongs rather to a northern type of mongoloid population and haplogroup O are found spread all over China during the last 10000 years. The mongoloid haplogroups found in melanesian and australoid population are rather a result of southward migration from ancient China, which was home to many different mongoloid haplogroups : D,C,N,O,Q.
 
My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture. Many ethnic chinese do not belong to majority O haplogroup, if given the information about diversified ethnic ancient culture, it may cause ethnic dispute over chinese history, it is what our government fears. It is why there is almost no genetic information on chinese
ethnography. What I tell here is from chinese forums where some rich posters had access to the censored genetic information. They also charge high fee for downloading genetic articles, not less than 200USD per article. I am just poor poster for now. Confused
 
Example of southern chinese ethnics, which has majority haplogroup N, D similiar to those of saamis in Finland and ainus in Japan. I believe, they were as indegenous as other ethnic chinese people:
 
Yi ethnic chinese, Sichuan, southwestern China.
Here is a man of Haplogroup N.
 
Man of Haplogroup D from Tibet China:
 
 
I can not find examples of Q and C, since they are rare in modern China, but you can refer to
amerindian and siberian people/eskimos, chukchis which still have up to 30% Q an C.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 10:56
As for the genetic relationship between east asian mongoloid and southeast asian negritoes and australoids:
 
Google a study:
 
Melanesian and Asian Origins of Polynesians
 
A slow boat migration from southern China since 6000BC is supported by genetic evidences and show how ancient chinese migration influenced native negrito(melanesian) and australoid genetic make up.


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 11:04
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
      I think there is evidence that Australoids were in China, but got absorbed by asiatic peoples.
 Look at the photo of the Tibetan man.  He has a full beard (rare for asians)and his facial features do not seem to be completely asiatic.  Perhaps he is partially Caucasoid from ancient Caucasoid populations in the area, but he also looks like could be partially Australoid.
 
Also, Zhongli Quan, one of the Taoist immortal sages is shown with a full beard and sometimes also with a heavy brow line.   Both of these features are more Australoid than asiatic.  My guess is that Zhong Li Quan was from a declining Australoid population in China.  
 
I think there is evidence of a north ward migration of Australoid peoples in very ancient times.....
 
Many people consider the Ainu to australoids.    Look at these photos and you can see that the Ainu resemble Australian Aborigones.  The Ainu are just lighter complected. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=australian+aborige&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=australian+aborigines - http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=australian+aborige&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=australian+aborigines
Ainu photos
  http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=ainu+photos - http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=ainu+photos
 
Also, Australoid type people were once more common in Japan.  The Emishi (possible australoid group) were once numerous on Honshu but were gradually wiped out / absorbed by the Japanese in the 1200s. http://emishi-ezo.net/ - http://emishi-ezo.net/
 
Furthermore, there is some evidence that Australoids were present in North America, but got absorbed by Asiatic groups.  In historical times, spanish priests described some California Indian groups as having Australoid features.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture.
I am not surprised.  Though I am not familiar with technical genetic terms, I think some of the genetic studies can be interperted a number of different ways.  I have seen several discussions on this forum get very heated over what genetic study "X"  really says about how closely or how distantly people "Y" and "Z" are related to each other. 
 


Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 22:19
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
      I think there is evidence that Australoids were in China, but got absorbed by asiatic peoples.
 Look at the photo of the Tibetan man.  He has a full beard (rare for asians)and his facial features do not seem to be completely asiatic.  Perhaps he is partially Caucasoid from ancient Caucasoid populations in the area, but he also looks like could be partially Australoid.
 
Also, Zhongli Quan, one of the Taoist immortal sages is shown with a full beard and sometimes also with a heavy brow line.   Both of these features are more Australoid than asiatic.  My guess is that Zhong Li Quan was from a declining Australoid population in China.  
 
I think there is evidence of a north ward migration of Australoid peoples in very ancient times.....
 
Many people consider the Ainu to australoids.    Look at these photos and you can see that the Ainu resemble Australian Aborigones.  The Ainu are just lighter complected. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=australian+aborige&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=australian+aborigines - http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=australian+aborige&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=australian+aborigines
Ainu photos
  http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=ainu+photos - http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=ainu+photos
 
Also, Australoid type people were once more common in Japan.  The Emishi (possible australoid group) were once numerous on Honshu but were gradually wiped out / absorbed by the Japanese in the 1200s. http://emishi-ezo.net/ - http://emishi-ezo.net/
 
Furthermore, there is some evidence that Australoids were present in North America, but got absorbed by Asiatic groups.  In historical times, spanish priests described some California Indian groups as having Australoid features.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australoid_race
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture.
I am not surprised.  Though I am not familiar with technical genetic terms, I think some of the genetic studies can be interperted a number of different ways.  I have seen several discussions on this forum get very heated over what genetic study "X"  really says about how closely or how distantly people "Y" and "Z" are related to each other. 
 

 

Tibetan man in the picture is not australoid, he is close to ainu and both he and ainu people are not australoid people, they belong to a proto-mongoloid population, for they are removed further away from european people in genetics than majority east asian people.

Yes, a lot of people of ainu racial type had once populated a considerable part of East asia in very early age of Neolithics.



Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 22:44

Australoid and negritoes heavily influenced modern Indonesian and Malaysian genetics, but they are closer to east asians in spite of their negrito looks. Graham Hancocks wife Santha Faiia is a classic example of negrito from Malaysia:

 


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2011 at 09:23
Santha Faiia is Tamil, not malay.

-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Werner7
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2011 at 15:43
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

There is NO reliable contemprary source from either East or West ever say huns were mongoloid, but an official persian historian working for Mongol Empire under Kublai Khan says Ghengis Khan was a caucasian. The misconception about huns and mongols were mongoloid was only spreaded during the colonial ages, when europeans were tended to view chinese, japanese and other mongoloid natives in America and Australia as savages, arrogantly linking them with their much scorned historical huns and mongols, but in fact, the misconception was just like the Nasal Index in indian caste system proposed by british anthropologists, which is totally WRONG and found on deliberate distortion of history.

I challenge everyone of you to find any quote from any source to prove Huns and mongols were mongoloid, if you failed, you must admit europeans are more hunnic and mongolic than east asians. LOL
I'm guessing that you're a Turk. 
 
Rashid Al Din's quotes shouldn't be taken seriously for obvious reasons , take for instance , his quote about Genghis being surprised that Kublai didn't inherit his red hair.
 
1) Red haired people don't EXPECT their offspring to inherit red hair , nobody really expects red hair to be inherited , especially Genghis , who had fathered many children in his lifetime and would have realized long before that red hair wasn't heritable should he actually have had red hair. 
 
In other words , the concept of a red haired man expecting his son to inherit red hair doesn't make sense and is somewhat contradictory. 
 
2)  References to the " Glittering " ancestors of Genghis by a writer influenced by Jewish forms of writing (he was ethnically Jewish) and writing in an epic format don't count as reliable sources , especially since his entire book itself had pictures of squinty asiatics and only asiatics to describe Genghis Khan. 
 
The Mongol movement was essentially an anti-nordic movement.
 
1)  Cease the Nordic expansion into Russia.  Without the Mongols , Russia would have been Nordic.
 
2)  Enslave Russia and use it for the Mongol war machine.
 
3)  Push Asiatic genes to the West.  Even Germans have Asian genes as of today , google " Pennysylvania-German-Deutch project ". 
 
Each of these steps shows an intent to move WESTWARD , also note that the Chinese , Koreans , and Mongolians DON'T HAVE CAUCASIAN DNA while the Europeans east of Germany have been tainted with Asian DNA. 
 
In other words , you're saying that these Caucasians expanded east and mixed with the Asians , thus the following would have to be true. 
 
- these Caucasians were originally West of Germany , perhaps Spanish , since Germans are tainted with Asian DNA , they could not have been these original caucasians since they have been invaded one way or another. 
 
- And you would have trouble explaining why the majority of Asians don't have a single trace of Caucasian DNA. 
 
But the MOST BLATANT ERROR in your post is this - Caucasians don't choose to mix with Asians.  e.g. the Japanese are still Asian. 
 
AND you're saying that eastern and central Europe was originally occupied by the Asiatics.  Which is absolutely preposterous. 


Posted By: Werner7
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2011 at 16:21
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

Mongols came from today's Mongolia and all mongolians are mongoloid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
What if Mongolia was occupied by caucasians, and mongolians were raped siberians? Just like brazilian indians are mongoloid does not proved Brazil was found by the mongoloid indians.
 
Mongolians=/mongols, Mongol empire was founded by invading western caucasians, mongolians today are a remnant of siberians who were forced to assimilate.
 
Mongolian mongols were left in mongolia, while the caucasian mongols were ravaging across Eurasia, that is why there is very few caucasian traces left, they were assimilated into mongolian gene pool totally. The western admixtures within modern mongolians prove this. There are 5% R1a, R1b within mongolians, but there is no caucasian female mtdna found.
 
 
 
I read your first post and then this one and I'm now convinced that you're just an uneducated brute. 
 
" caucasian ... assimilated into mongolian gene pool totally "
 
WTF does this even mean? How does the largest army the world has ever known simply disappear due to mixing? 
 
The majority of Mongols are plain Asians , the other 10 % are mixed. In addition to this ,  R1a and R1B aren't caucasian  , your posts are plagued with errors that are so rudimentary that I probably won't even bother reply to them from now on. 


Posted By: RAS
Date Posted: 17-Nov-2011 at 09:57
All you have to do to find who the Mongols were is read the book "the Secret History of the Mongols" written in Genghis Khan's time by a Mongol author.

According to the book the Mongols were originally from the Pacific Coast of Siberia. They migrated to Lake Baikal in Western Siberia. Some of Mongols moved South over the mountains from the forest to the grasslands of what is now Mongolia and took up the nomadic lifestyle. Some Mongols stayed behind at Lake Baikal and their anscestor still live around the lake. Genghis Khan was born near Lake Baikal.

The ancient stories and tales about the Mongols in the book sound just like North American Indian Tales.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 17-Nov-2011 at 14:53
Are you sure about it RAS!?!How do we know dating about manuscripts today?By paper or ink?Most of them are reproductions of "original" which existence could have been proved poorly!I read a book like a small child.
http://www.biography.com/people/genghis-khan-9308634 - http://www.biography.com/people/genghis-khan-9308634


Posted By: eurokiller
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2012 at 23:07
Why don't you go to Mongolia and see how "Caucasian" they look?



Posted By: RAS
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 15:25
Originally posted by RAS

All you have to do to find who the Mongols were is read the book "the Secret History of the Mongols" written in Genghis Khan's time by a Mongol author.

According to the book the Mongols were originally from the Pacific Coast of Siberia. They migrated to Lake Baikal in Western Siberia. Some of Mongols moved South over the mountains from the forest to the grasslands of what is now Mongolia and took up the nomadic lifestyle. Some Mongols stayed behind at Lake Baikal and their anscestor still live around the lake. Genghis Khan was born near Lake Baikal.

The ancient stories and tales about the Mongols in the book sound just like North American Indian Tales.


Originally posted by RAS

Below is a photo of the Mongols who stayed behind at Lake Baikal, they are the Buryats.





Posted By: ChildrenOfMala'Kak
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2016 at 00:17
He didn't look like the average Mongol. But rather tall, red hair and blue or grey eyes according to some experts. But this is hard to prove as we know this is not a dominate trait and will always out breed by dark eyed and dark hair people.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2016 at 01:40
Hormones in food make miracles,kid of Mala'Kak.Have a nice time here.


Posted By: ChildrenOfMala'Kak
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2016 at 17:21

4,000 YEAR OLD LOST TRIBE

One of the most fantastic finds in the last half of the twentieth century, has to be the discovery of a Northern European tribe found in the north east corner of Xinjiang province, near the Celestial mountains and the Taklimakan Desert. This is situated on the edge of the Gobi desert.

The story starts in 1978 when the Chinese  http://hubpages.com/education/Ancient-Artifacts-Amazing-Finds-That-Defy-Explanation-Ancient-Civilizations-with-Modern-Technology - archaeologist , Wang Binghus, began searching for ancient sites. He began by following stream beds, and asking the locals if they had ever come across any broken pots and artifacts. He eventually came across a few people who pointed out that there was a place called Qizilchoqa, or, as the local people called it, Red hill. Here he made the most amazing discovery, the first of the mummies. It had been placed in a grave on the side of the hill.

It was a simple site, rush mats were on the floor, and some of the bodies were buried in the foetal position. In effect, the mummies were not what you would call real mummies, in the sense that they were not embalmed. They had been preserved in an amazing way. They had been placed in the ground, which had been subjected to a very unique weather system. Heat, aridity, and bitter winter cold, mixed with a salty soil, had preserved them better than other mummies found around the world. Even the clothing was still perfectly recognisable.

The bodies were excavated and taken to the museum in the city of Urumqi. There were 113 bodies taken from the site. At the time the Chinese government did not have enough funds to excavate the find. Wang eventually discovered three more burial sites.

The faces of the mummies were very well preserved, so, on closer examination, they could see that they were not chinese. They had blonde hair , big eyes, and European noses.

At that time, Chinese tradition had always shown the fact that they believed china had developed independently from the rest of the world. Because of this, the government was reluctant to bring the finds to the public attention.

The most extraordinary thing about the mummies, was the fact that their clothes were in such good condition. A jacket belonging to one man, over three thousand years old, still had a crimson edge. And the women had artificial extensions in their hair.

This tribe was obviously very advanced for it's day. On one of the mummies, there is a scar which shows they had rudimentary skills at operating. It had been sown up with horses hair.

When the West was eventually allowed to visit the mummies , Dr Victor Mair, who was Professor of Chinese at Pennsylvania university, took a tour around the museum. Imagine his surprise when he saw these amazing  http://hubpages.com/education/Denisovans-A-New-Exciting-Discovery-For-Archaology-A-new-breed-of-Man-who-Interbred-with-Humans - mummies , which had been kept in a dark room, in glass topped boxes.

At this time, the Chinese authorities were still a bit reluctant to let anybody know about them, so it has taken quite a long time for the the west to be able to study them properly.

eventually in 1993, they were allowed back with a team of geneticists from Italy. And this is when they began to study them properly. They used the most up to date technology of the time to confirm the date of the mummies. They now believe that they are about 4,000 years old, and the youngest about 2,000. There are probably many more to be found, possibly in the same region of china, but it is also possible they could have settled anywhere across China, as long as the conditions were suitable to live in.

These people were from the Bronze age, they were Caucasian, and it is possible that they interacted with the indigenous people at that time. The local people probably taught them their traditions, and the Caucasians most likely introduced them to their way of life as well.

There were two cartwheels found at the burial sites, very similar to what you might find in Russia, or nearby countries. These amazing people were probably Scandinavian or German, it is amazing to think that they trekked across China all the way from Europe, 4,000 years ago, taking their traditions and language with them. How many other tribes were there? who knows.

I think that one of the most fascinating things about this story is that the local people, even today, that live in the area where the bodies were found, speak a language called Tocharian, the most eastern branch of Indo-European. This language is closely related to German and Celtic. I think the other most amazing thing about these people is that they walked all the way across China, taking with them their families, and a mixture of animals, probably goats and sheep. Feeling the cold, and the heat, catching diseases that they didn't know anything about, Not sure whether they would survive the different climate. Babies were born, people died, and all the time not knowing whether they would be safe or if the indigenous people would accept them. Their lust for adventure and discovering new places gave them strength and determination to survive. They were amazing people, and I hope that soon we will be able to see these wonderful discoveries, and learn more about these courageous human beings that came from the beginning of history.


Source
mummie wearing chinese mask
mummie wearing chinese mask









Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2016 at 18:47
Good stuff. But I expect you to provide references and or citations indicating copyright especially on the photos. If the text work is your own that's fine. If not.... it's normal procedure. To avoid conflicts of interest and accusations of plagiarism.

It's a basic requirement of any historian lay or professional. And in abiding by these basic tenets; you then earn more credibility in the production and promotion of your work.

-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: ChildrenOfMala'Kak
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2016 at 19:27
Sorry I'm new to this. I'll try again


GENGHIS KHAN

The Mongol leader Temujin (AD 1167-1227), better known by his title Genghis Khan (Universal Ruler), was a man of strongly Nordish racial ancestry. According to the Persian historian Ab ul Ghasi, the tribal clan to which Temujin belonged, were known as the Bourchikoun (Grey-Eyed Men). [Günther (1934) 185; Lamb (1928) 22.] The ancestral mother and founder of this clan was known as Alan goa (beautiful Alan). According to the Mongol and Chinese legends on the subject, she was said to have been visited in her tent by a divine being, who possessed golden hair, a fair complexion and grey eyes. Shortly after this visitation, she gave birth to the first member of the Bourchikoun clan. [Günther (1934) 184.]

Temujin himself was noted in Chinese descriptions of him, for his tall stature and heavy beard. [Günther (1934) 185.] We should also note the following depiction of Temujin's appearance, as given by Harold Lamb, in his biography of the great Khan:

"He must have been tall, with high shoulders, his skin a whitish tan. His eyes, set far apart under a sloping forehead, did not slant. And his eyes were green, or blue-grey in the iris, with black pupils. Long reddish-brown hair fell in braids to his back." [Lamb (1928) 23.]

Ab ul Ghasi also observed that the family of Yesugai, the father of Temujin, were known for the fact that their children often had fair complexions, and blue or grey eyes. [Günther (1934) 185.] Temujin's wife, Bourtai, bore a name which means "Grey-Eyed". [Lamb (1928) 23.] As both Günther (1934) and Lamb (1928) note, Temujin's relatives and descendants also possessed fair features: Temujin's son and successor Ogadei (1229-41), had gray eyes and red hair; Temujin's grandson Mangu (1251-9), had reddish eyebrows and a red-brown beard; Subatei, who conquered China, had a long, reddish beard. Indeed, it was said that people were surprised Kubilai Khan had dark hair and eyes, because most of Genghis Khan's descendants had reddish hair and blue eyes. [Günther (1934) 185.]

TAMERLANE

Another of Genghis Khan's descendants, the great conqueror Tamerlane (1336-1405), also inherited Nordish racial characteristics. According to a contemporary, Ibn Arabshah, Tamerlane was tall and strong, with broad shoulders, a large head and high forehead, he had a heavy beard, was white-skinned and had a ruddy complexion. He also seems to have been fair-haired. [Günther (1934) 187; Lamb (1929) 153.]

This description has been confirmed in recent times. In 1941, the Soviet Archaeological Commission opened the tomb of Tamerlane, which resides in the city of Samarkand, Uzbekistan. Within it, Tamerlane's physical remains were discovered: they proved that he had indeed been a man of strong build and imposing stature. Most interestingly of all however, the last few hairs of a reddish-brown moustache were found adhering to the skull. [Brent (1976) 237-8.]

* * *

Do portraits prove that Genghis Khan was predominantly Mongoloid? There are various images which depict Genghis Khan with the distinctively Mongolian epicanthic eyefold. However, it should first be noted that all such images were executed many years after the Khan's death, by artists who never actually laid eyes upon him. The portrait below, taken from the Imperial Palace Museum, Beijing, is just one example. [Paludan (1998) 152.] Many others exist, painted by unknown artists, at an indefinite period of time. The provenance and value of such works for racial classification, is therefore rather feeble. Put simply, the accuracy of these images cannot be vouched for.

Genghis Khan?
[Paludan (1998) 152]

Equally, we cannot rely with great certainty on the judgement of the portraitists. As Day correctly comments, there is always the ethnic bias of the artist to contend with, since "artists perhaps tend to give their subjects something of their own physical traits". [Day (2001) 360.] A vivid illustration of this fact can be found in the portrait below, of the nineteenth-century American seaman, Commodore Perry. This contemporary picture, by a Japanese artist, depicts Perry as strongly Mongoloid in type, with a definite epicanthus. Perry, of course, was entirely Caucasian, yet the artistic conventions of the Japanese make him appear otherwise. Thus, we must be extremely cautious when accepting such "portraits", quite literally, at their "face value".

Commodore Perry
[Smith (1979) 231]

Were the ancient inhabitants of East Asia entirely Mongoloid? Craniological evidence reveals that during the second millennium BC, Caucasians were predominant throughout much of Central Asia, and they maintained hegemony over several areas in the region. Thus, as Day notes: "Caucasoids not only outnumber[ed] Mongoloids in Xinjiang; they also predate[d] them." [Day (2001) 192.] Even into later eras, a Caucasian minority, strongly "Northern European" in physical type, was retained. [Day (2001) 138.] The Buddhist murals at Bezeklik (see below), in the eastern part of the Tarim Basin, near the Mongolian border, bear witness to the fact that just over a thousand years ago, rugged Caucasoids, with reddish-brown hair and blue eyes, could still be found in abundance. [Day (2001) 138-9.] Eickstedt argued that these murals depict individuals of Nordic and "Proto-Nordic" (protonordoidem) type. [Eickstedt (1934) 276.] At this point, it would be germane to remember the fact that it was precisely these features (reddish hair and blue eyes) that were found as an ancestral inheritance among the family of Genghis Khan.

Mural from Bezeklik
Mural from Bezeklik
[Day (2001) ii]
[Barber (1999) xxix]

Do the experts agree that Genghis Khan was red-haired and blue-eyed? The German physical anthropologist Egon von Eickstedt, who was an expert on the racial types of Asia, stated clearly that the ruling classes of the Far East, most particularly those among the Mongols, included Nordic racial elements. He affirmed that Genghis Khan's family was characterised by its blue eyes and reddish hair, and that although Kubilai Khan (1259-94) had a ruddy-fair complexion, he had hair and eyes that were unusually dark for Temujin's clan. Eickstedt even noted that Temujin's grandson Batu (†1256), the first Khan of the Golden Horde, was freckled! Therefore, there is nothing at all extreme or unusual in attributing Nordish physical features to Genghis Khan: on the contrary, it is an historical fact, well-attested to by the major authorities in this field of expertise. To conclude, here is the original quotation from Eickstedt on the subject, with my emphasisadded throughout:

"Aber auch noch später machte sich dieprotonordische Komponente in Chinabemerkbar, denn sie wurde selbstverständlich auch von den im Mittelalter China erobernden Barbaren der westlichen Steppen noch mitgeführt. Das hat offenbar sogar besonders für deren Oberschichten gegolten. Ein Beispiel dafür ist der berühmte Kaiser Kublai Khan, der Gönner Marco Polos, von dem eine rötlich-weiße Komplexion ausdrücklich berichtet wird. Aber trotzdem war Dschingis-Khan, der Eroberer Asiens, nicht etwa d a r ü b e r erstaunt, sondern im Gegenteil über die relative Bräune des Kaisers, da ja „die meisten Mitglieder seiner Familie sonst blaue Augen und rötliche Haarehatten!“ Dabei war Dschingis-Khan, der „Kaiser der Welt“ — und er war es beinahe wirklich, der einzige, der je diesen Titel mit einem gewissen Recht trug —, selbst rassisch höchst interessant. Denn er entstammte dem Geschlecht derBuschikun oder Grauäugigen, einem unter allen Stämmen Zentralasiens weitverbreiteten Herrscherclan, und wird geschildert als hochgewachsen, mit weißlicher, schimmernder Haut, mit grünen oder grauen Augen, die nicht geschlitzt waren, und mit langem,rötlichbraunem Haar, das ihm in Zöpfen über den Rücken fiel. Seine vom Vater gewaltsam geraubte Mutter Yühlun war sibirischer (sibirider?) Herkunft. Man kann nur schließen, daß in den Adern dieses größten Abenteurers und Machtmenschen aller Zeiten auch Blut aus nordischer Quelle floß. Seine Erst- und Lieblingsfrau war Burtai, die „Grauäugige“. Weiterhin wird der bekannte Prinz Batu auch alssommersprossig geschildert." [Eickstedt (1934) 274-5.]

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Barber, E. W. (1999) The Mummies of Ürümchi(London: Macmillan).

Brent, P. (1976) The Mongol Empire: Genghis Khan, His Triumph and His Legacy (London: Weidenfeld & Nicolson).

Day, J. V. (2001) Indo-European Origins: The Anthropological Evidence (Washington, DC: Institute for the Study of Man).

Eickstedt, E. von (1934) Rassenkunde und Rassengeschichte der Menschheit (Stuttgart: Ferdinand Enke Verlag).

Günther, H. F. K. (1934) Die nordische Rasse bei den Indogermanen Asiens (Munich: J. F. Lehmanns Verlag).

Lamb, H. (1928) Genghis Khan: The Emperor of All Men (London: Thornton Butterworth).

Lamb, H. (1929) Tamerlane: The Earth Shaker(London: Thornton Butterworth).

Paludan, A. (1998) Chronicle of the Chinese Emperors (London: Thames & Hudson).

Smith, B. (1979) Japan: A History in Art (Tokyo: Toppan Printing Company).



A PART OF THE MONGOL EMPIRE NAMED GOLDEN HORDE WHICH OPPERATE AT THE MODERN IRAN, THE REST OF THE MIDDLE EAST, MINOR ASIA, CENTERAL AND NORTHEN BALKANS, MODERN UKRAINE, RUSSIA, POLAND AND OTHER PLACES



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Posted By: DeepHistory
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2018 at 02:09
Just thought I'd point something out here on this old post. It's a long-standing belief of Nazi occultists that the Aryan race has a 'certain special relationship' with particular groups of people in Asia. One of the most obvious examples of this is the use of the swastika.

The two individuals on this thread who are promoting this the most heavily, have clear occult connections in their profiles. The post above mine even quotes a German text which discusses a "nordic" connection. 

Do the math folks. 


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2018 at 10:40
I don't know what you saw in those profiles that indicates occult connections. I didn't see anything.

I'm surprised at you bringing the Nazis into this, esp. trying to tie the swastika to the supposed "aryans".

The swastika has been used by many cultures over thousands of years, mostly as a symbol of good luck or positive protection and isn't confined to Asia. The swastika appears in several cultures in North and South America, notably the Hopi and Navajo.

I don't mean to be insulting, but considering the content of the rest of this thread, your post doesn't make much sense.






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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Tekesh Hwarazmshah
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2018 at 03:38
the disputes among people about jengizhan/timurlane origins whether they were subhuman asians or ubbermensch caucasians shows that nowdays civilisation came to the the dead end of evolution, islamic-judeo-christian culture together created fully atheistic occult world, where ideology is put above human beings, i think again the utter world need bloody purgation in the form of second appearance of jenguizhan. in the book of tarihi jahangusha of atamelik juveyni clearly mentioned that among mongols the most dreadful sin was immersion in satanistic-homosexual magic, mongols poured red-hot lead into the throat of them, additionaly as the great communist writer Maxim Gorkiy said - """Remove all homosexuals from the world, and the nazi ideology will by itself dissapear"".


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2018 at 10:30
As this thread seems to be attracting whackos, thread closed

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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.



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