Armenian allegations of genocide can not be substantiated by non-partisan historical evidence. "...It was an intercommunal warfare that took place within a world war, which caused much suffering to all the peoples of the area, Muslims and Christians alike,..." concluded a statement signed by 69 prominent historians in USA.

Armenian armed resistance groups formed in 1887 and 1890 (i.e. 28 years prior the alleged genocide )used propaganda, agitation, and pure terror, in the Ottoman Empire, in order to provoke a retaliation from Muslim inhabitants of Eastern Anatolia, which then supposedly would be used as a pretext by major colonial powers of the era, namely Czarist Russia, Britain and France , to intervene "in the name of saving Christians". Thus, allies would beat the Ottoman Empire, divide up its lands among themselves, and give Armenians the eastern parts of Anatolia where Greater Armenian would be established... "And all lived happily ever after" would end the pipe dream...

That was the evil Armenian plan and the Armenian nationalist groups, ignoring the fact that the total Armenian population was spread thinly over the area and always was a minority wherever they lived (averaged out to 17% of the total Ottoman population in the east, much less than that in the West), started chasing this evil plan with up-to-then-unforeseen brutality, victimizing the Muslims and Turks of the area, and reporting these incidents to the West as "Turks killing Armenians".

Armenian nationalists made extensive use of forgeries, fakeries, fabrications, misrepresentation, and exaggerations in their reports to the world via Armenian church, Christian missionaries, western diplomats, and other channels. Some common examples are forged Talaat telegrams, invented Hitler quote, exaggerated casualty and population numbers, plagiaried painting by a Russian prior to the alleged genocide shown as Armenian skulls of the victims of genocide... Armenians used total misrepresentation regularly to cover up the bloodshed and the mayhem they were causing.

The West easily believed these stories that filled their newspapers, without investigating their sources or hearing the other side of the story. British wartime propaganda, recanted after the war by the British themselves, continued to be used as the basis and proof of the "alleged" genocide to this day. Thus, not only Muslims and Turks were subjected to a ruthless ethnic cleansing campaign by the Armenians in Russian uniform, Armenians in French uniform, and Armenians under no uniform at all, but also, they were presented to the West as one and only villains.

All the one sided propaganda in the West, helped create a simplistic picture of "Poor starving Armenians being killed en-masse by bad, ruthless Turks" which was readily bought , lock-stock-and barrel, at face value, by the public already indoctrinated with anti-Muslim, anti-Turk bias for centuries. Although refuted at all scholarly levels possible (history, historiography, geography, forensics, social, ethnological, and others), the Armenian allegations are still leveled by Armenian political lobbies around the world today.

In fact, the Armenians are using the very same tactics even today, to grab lands from neighboring Azerbaijan, causing 1.5 million Azeri non-combatant population to be refugees on their own soil, living in cold, leaky tents, with little or no food or medicine, since 1992. Armenian aggression is now focusing on neighboring Turkey and even Georgia. It is time to put a stop to this massive misrepresentation-fueled-Armenian-aggression since 1887.

Acknowledging the Armenian suffering and dead, but totally ignoring the much larger Turkish suffering and dead, if not based on ignorance, boils down to saying "Armenian dead are more important than Turkish dead", and therefore, a racist way of looking at history.

Turkish academicians around the globe condemn all efforts by the Armenian lobbies, to misrepresent the truth and invite their colleagues and all fair-minded people, to join the efforts to seek peace, tolerance, and global friendship of all peoples.

The signature campaign by the Turkish academicians is a peaceful way of saying "enough is enough... Let�s start telling the world the truth... No more Armenian lies..."

Let no more lies serve Armenian aggression !

Let truth serve peace...

http://www.tetedeturc.com/home/article.php3?id_article=569 - http://www.tetedeturc.com/home/article.php3?id_article=569

well politics as usual is the explanation, the victors of WW1 are going to play their allies merits and their enemies low points.  Of course all people that die in genocide are equally important, and of course atrocities were commited on both sides with equal intensity.

But I am concerned by saying Armenian aggression like there never was any Turkish aggression.  I think both sides are qually to blame, and thus both sides are lying.  Theres no claiming high ground for either Turks or Armenians on this one Im afraid.  Both countries should be ashamed, although Armenia should publically acknowledge its burden as well, and no fireign historian seems willing to be able to request such accountability from anyone but Turks

Weel said.But we are saying that we killed each other not:

"vile armenaians attcked babies at midnight......"

or

"bloody turks attcked to satisfy their....."

Well known or misunderstood.I just pasted a teeeny bit of the ottoman archives and it had some english in it too.If you are unsatisfied i am willing to translate every word............

If indeed have commited then it would be the islamist Ottomans not Turkey

Thanks, i guess.

And no one said Armenian lives are more valuable than Turkish lives. No one is denying that many Turks died, they joined a World War. We are simply stating that Armenians were massacred from government order in an organized fashion. That is the only difference between Armenian and Turkish deaths.

Sorry but it's a false claim.I just posted the ottoman archives and it says nothing about it.If you are unsatisfied i will translate some parts for you.That didn't happen.The armenians were sent on exile because they attcked the turks.

Exile.Of course many died on the way because of conditions bandit and so on.BUt the thing is it''s civil.Armenians vs Turks.

If you send hundreds of thousands of people into exile, you have to have enough soldiers to transport and protect them. The Turks did nothing to stop the Kurdish bandits from killing Armenian women, children and elderly. If you do not have the means to appropriately deport a population (which is unjustified to begin with) then you cannot attempt it.

You said they were sent into exile because they attacked the Turks. Tell me, how many women, children and elderly Armenians attacked the Turks? Because they were the bulk of the people sent into exile, most of the men were serving in the army.

hey hey hey

armenians were exiled for their own security

whatever anyone says; it was a civil war under the conditions of WWI

"Genocide" is non-sense to use for 1915 while even what the nazis did to jews is still called "holocaust"

2 million???

there had never been that number of armenian ethnicity in anatolia

our president invited armenia to join the studies of turkish archives which helps to solve international problems(like between katar and bahrain) but Osakian procrastinates. because accusing much more profitable for the dashnaks

yeah kurdish bandits may have attacked those civilian armenians, but it was the inner problem of the "state of the ottoman empire". You gotta leave it to history books

No you don't have enough troops tp protect them!

And how can the ottoman army be attcked behind and betrayed by women and children if there aren't much men around?

Did the babies start killing people?

NO.Mostc of the armenians were not with the army

OK this is not going anywhere so i will try to conclude my point:

The Ottoman Empire was losing land in a vast speed for 140 years.Turks living in those countries were living in bad conditions,ill treated and sent to exile.Then they ened up in Anotolia,the wall that they were cornered into.The english poet Audrey Herbert puts it very nicely;

There falls perpetual snow upon a broken plain,

And though the twilight filled with flakes

the white earth joins the sky

grim as a famished wolf,

His lean neck in a chain

The Turk stands up to die

This was the only place were they were safe at home.But then a group supported by an alien nation rebels and tries to do what has been done to you for 140 years.The Armenians kicked a sick,cornered wolf.And it bit.But it didn't kill it though,it bit,it hurted but did not kill.The armenians  did a classick response yelling"doctor!lawyers!police!"The mark of his foot was lost but the painful bite remains.Making their anger and hatred grow stronger and stronger.The wound has never healed

Thats my point, babies and women did not start killing people, so what was the reason for deporting hundreds of thousands of them? And you said there werent any men around....thats my point! A lot of the Armenian men were serving in the military and the rest had been disarmed before the war started. This means the women and children had very little protection against Ottoman forces. That was my whole point.

The Turks were sick wolves? The Armenians were right beside the Turks in the front lines of the war, and many Armenians did not live in favorable conditions. We did not have the means to topple an empire when we were committing soldiers to that same empire. I have said this in another post.

Come on Swedish, you're not here to do childish word gamings, are you

"Genocide" is a technical term which has sharp boundaries. If you target to finish the offspring of a race, ethnicity, or a nation; being in charge of the description is convenient and right.

But the affairs in 1915 were NOT EVEN HOLOCAUST.

IT WAS A CIVIL WAR.

THE OTTOMAN STATE WERE NOT GUILTY LIKE THE KINGDOM OF SWEDEN BY WHOM THE PEOPLE OF FINLAND WERE ASSIMILATED.

THE EXHOUSTED TURKISH ARMY SEPERATED TO ALMOST EVERYWHERE THE WAR WAS. RUSSIA USED THIS OPPORTUNITY AND FIRED THE TORPIDO. ARMENIAN GANGS-WITH RUSSIAN GUNS-TERRORIZED ANATOLIA. STILL EVERY YEAR COMMON GRAVES OF TURKS ARE FOUND AROUND VAN, ERZURUM, SIVAS, ERZINCAN, ADANA, MARAS, URFA...

NATURALLY ANTI-ARMENIC FEELINGS RISED AND IT TURNED INTO A CIVIL WAR. A SELF-STARTED PUBLIC MOVEMENT AGAINST ARMENIANS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, BECAUSE THERE WERE OTHER NATIONS WHO DID SEPERATE FROM THE EMOIRE LIKE SERBIANS AND GREEKS BEFORE ARMENIANS. IF A PUBLIC ISOLATION WOULD HAPPEN, IT WOULD CERTAINLY BE AGAINST SERBIANS AND GREEKS WHO STILL WERE LIVIN IN THE EMPIRE WITH HUGE MASSES.

THIS IS WHY THE ARMENIAN POPULATION WERE SENT TO SYRIA.

MURDERS possible each other

RAPES possible each other

LOOT possible each other

BUT GENOCIDE??? EVEN ARMENIANS DON'T GIVE A THING TO THAT, BUT YOU SEE IT SELLS!..

SO WHAT???

90 YEARS AGO

DEAD WAS DEAD LET THEM SLEEP AND WAIT FOR THE LAST JUDGEMENT. BECAUSE WE HAVE FOLDERS TO CARRY TO THE OTHER SIDE, TOO.

You said it was a civil war? Ive never heard anyone claim an official war between the Ottomans and Armenians.

Most of the Turks i talk to said that they deported the Armenians for their own safety. This is pretty inconsistent considering what you are saying about civil war. The Pashas even said they were "trying to protect" the Armenians within their empire, when they clearly werent. And it wasnt a civil war because there was no official war waged on Armenians. Armenians were in the Ottoman army, we were on the same side.

So was it civil war or for our own good? I hear different stories from everyone.

ArmenianSurvival, you should know by now that Turks say different things about the Genocide. Every day, they make up stuff. One day, the call it a civil war, the other day, they call it immigrations, then they start blaming the whole thing on Jews... Isn't it obvious that they are lying?

Nice!You are funny

Yes.We have been plotting in archives and population counts a little over a century!

The Armenians were deported they had no choice in the matter.Goverment records estimate about 600.000 Armenians were sent to Syria.The Ottoman State did not have enough soldiers to protect them on the way.About 300.000 of them succumbed to the cold,hunger and harassings of Kurdish bandits.

______________________________________________________

You should talk. Russia helped instigate most of the problems in the Caucasus.

you should have told this to "dark_one"

Originally posted by AyKurt No, i think your just confused.  The "Turks" have been quite consistent in saying it was a civil war. As for the "immigration", never heard that before,

Actually many Turkish sources that i have read point out the fact that they tried to "relocate" the Armenian civilians for their own safety. There was no war waged on Armenia by the Ottoman Turks. I have seen Turkish government representatives on t.v. saying the same exact thing.

Your friend TheDiplomat even posted documents stating how the Turks were peacefully relocating the Armenians for their own safety. And you're saying it was civil war? Then you claim that Turks are consistent with their story. I think its clear to everyone that the argument is inconsistent.

ASSIMILATIONS IN THE OTTOMAN WERE NEVER DONE BY ANY FORCE

OTTOMAN POLICY WERE ALWAYS TOLERANT TO EVERY ETHNICITY, RACE, AND RELIGION.

HERE IS THE POINT:

GREEKS, JEWS, ARMENIANS, ARABS... ALL WERE GLAD AND PROUD TO BE OTTOMAN. BUT THE FINNS NEVER ACCEPTED THE SWEDISH DYNASTY, ALSO THEIR UPRISE AGAINST SWEDEN WAS NEVER SUPPORTED/BOOSTED BY FOREIGN FACTIONS...

Styrbiorn;

I don't understand your aggressive attitude. I didn't insult you or any values about you.

So why was KALEVALA re-published in the begining of the century(great accordance with the uprising...must be coinsidence 

And why do still Finns present themselves as relative of Turks rather than brother of Scandinavians??? 

Why do Turks always have to take a double standard? Sometimes you take the Kurds on your side, sometimes you don't...

Ethnic cleansing by Ottoman Armenians against Turks and Kurds could not and did not happen. If, as you Turks claim, they numbered less than 1.5 million (which they were not), how could they have killed so many Turks and Kurds as you claim (more than 500 000)? The Ottoman Turkish Empire obviously had better weaponry than Ottoman Armenian peasants. Even if Armenians got some help from outside, thehelp they got could never have been enough to stop the Turkish and Kurdish onslaught. Even though Turks were fighting elsewhere during WWI, Armenians were also busy fighting in the Ottoman Army (1908 onwards), so able Armenian men were busy fighting, or whatever work they had to do (which got harder and unbareable 1915 onwards). Note that the Armenian revolts stopped after the Young Turks came to power -- until the massacres in Adana happened.

In 1908, a new regime was imposed in the Ottoman Empire, the Young-Turk government took power through a revolution that was considered as �bloodless.�

In 1909, Armenians started manifesting in support to the new governments policies of more rights and freedom, provoking many Abdul Hamid loyalist and residual bureaucrats eager to maintain their jobs. They started organizing massacres, known as the �twin massacres� forming what is known as the massacres and the Adana holocaust(April 1/14-April 14/27, 1909). The Grand Vizier Hilmi Pasa scorned about those events: �the reactionary, criminal scoundrels who were bent on massacring and plundering the Armenians through a surprise attack.�

During the event, thousands of Armenians were locked in schools, hospitals and churches and burned en mass.

England, France, Italy, Austria, Russia, Germany and the United States had warships stationed at Adana's port city Marsin. They have witnessed Armenians burned in mass without intervening, leaving thousands and thousands to be consumed by fire.

The Ottoman government did send an Army, that was supposed to bring peace, by many in uniform were still supporter of the old regime, and if not left passive watching the crime perpetrated, even participated indirectly. Adana being one of the only places, where Armenians were not targeted in the 1894-1897 massacres, the new government profited a lot, by reducing the Armenian economical presence from the area.

Ottoman sources for the number of victims are around 15,000, while most Western sources estimates the Armenian losses to be from 20,000 to 30,000.

(from Wikipedia)

After these events, some Armenians lost their trust on the new government and constitution, which supposedly garanteed equalty among the multiethnic Ottoman population.

We can conclude that the only ones who were left to cause a civil war were the few men (the rest were sent to work camps) who were smart enough not to trust the Young Turks after the events in Adana, women, children, and the elderly. So tell me, would these peasants ever be able to even defend themselves in 1915, or even be able to do a good offensive and be capable to even massacre Eastern Anatolian muslims who had the advantage because they were present in good quantities in the Eastern Armenian provinces?

A bit about the Ottoman Armenian population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Armenian_Population - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Armenian_Population

Denialist claims are not even realistic. Nobody supports the Turkish claims by actively denying the genocide, other than Azerbaijan and Turkey itself.

Fine then, akinci. This is not the only case of ''double-crossing''. Sometimes, Turks are proud of the Ottoman Empire, and how it conquered ''the unconquerable city'', or how it was able to expand into Europe... But when the subject of Genocide comes, Turks say that the Ottoman Empire and Turkey are not the same, or that Turkey has changed...

That argument does not work either.

Yes. Turkey is the accomplice of Ittihadist Turkey, because it hides the fact that Armenians once ruled over Eastern Anatolia, or that Armenians lived there in big quantities until 1915. Even the words ''Armenia'' or ''Armenian'' are not mentionned on this panel for touristic information in front of Ani, a ruined Armenian city.

Then why does that touristic information panel mention the ''Hurris'' (Hurians?), a now extinct people, and does not mention the Armenians which were still present in Eastern Anatolia in the beginning of the 20th century?

Me neither... I only mentionned the Kurds, you were the one who mentionned the PKK.

Why wouldnt you accept their actions unless they actually did commit a genocide?

You take pride in the centuries of Ottoman governments and rulers that in your words "have nothing to do with modern Turkey" but yet when the talk of genocide comes up you put the veil over your eyes.

Thats like Germany not admitting or paying reparations for the Holocaust. They can just use the excuse "it was the Nazi regime". Its a weak argument that will never work on the world stage, its as simple as that.

Oh come on it's not too complicated!Te leladers that did the things we are proud of are very diffrent from ittihat ve terakki and they were hated at that time too.They controlled the sultan and they did not care about the country.If a whole nation hates them then we can neither say guilty or not guilty,or be proud of them.

And for the nazi's,they were supported by almost the entire nation so it's not the same

The entire nation HAD to support the Nazis because they had one of the greatest secret police systems ever crafted, most notably the SS. If it was known that someone did not support the regime, they would have been imprisoned or put to death. They were forced. They didn't want to support the regime, just as the average Turk living in the Ottoman Empire did not support the extermination and deportation of Armenians.

Its not that complicated. Young Turks massacred, the next ruling party inherits the country. When you inherit a country you inherit EVERYTHING, including past mistakes.

They assumed rule of the entire country. Theyre in control of the lands. And in that country was an ethnicity which had just seen half its members massacred. The leaders of the Turkish Republic reaped the fruits of former Ottoman Turkey, but they refuse to right their wrongs. How is that excusable? They basically took control of Turkey and paid no attention to the damage that had just been administered by their nation.

The fruits of the former Ottoman Empire are the vast lands of modern-day Turkey .

They created independence, but how free is it when historians are blasted by the media and the general public for voicing their opinion on factual information regarding the Armenian Genocide? And there are lawsuits against those same historians...what a democracy eh?

And they didnt "create" a modern alphabet. They simply got rid of the Arabic alphabet and adopted the Latin alphabet, as Ataturk was trying to make Turkey into more of a European nation. 

But the Turks obviously have a lot today, and that was inherited from the days of the Ottomans. Because if Ottoman Turks never became an empire, the Republic of Turkey might not have even existed. You should be proud of your past but also face the consequences of what your nation has done. You cant pick and choose what you want to remember.  

Thanks for the selective memory reminder. A latin alphabet was incorporated with Turkish sounding letters. The c as in "ch", same with the letter s, soft g, etc...

Historians are all welcome. They must show research to back up their claims. I hope that all will keep to such scientific standards.

Do you knnow how the Republic of Armenia was formed?

Did you know that the current lands of Armenia were held by a prior Turkish majority? Where are they now?

There was never a Turkish majority in present-day Armenia. The Ottomans moved Turks into many districts of the empire to make them the majority, but Turks have never been a majority in Armenia. Not even close.

If there was a Turkish majority in Armenia like you claim, how would you think that would be possible without genocide?

So you're either saying the Turks massacred Armenians in Armenia, or that Turks were never a majority? Ah, i see. Either way, the argument has no validity and even less of a point.

maybe its because russians took the remaining gangs/bandits with themselves and kept them quite away from moscow to prevent the same against them, and as the guarantee they would keep staying there beside azeris

Thats a good theory. Based on no fact, but good nontheless.

Turkey sues historians who talk about the Armenian Genocide, because they say its "based on no fact". But when a Turk comes up with a wild theory like that, no one says a word to the guy. I really dont get how this is fair. But hey, no one said life is fair.

When the Russians invaded what is now Azerbaijan in the early 1800's they enlisted Armenians in their cause. In the wars that the Russians fought against the Ottomans and Persians from 1827 to 1829, Muslims were expelled from their lands in what today is Armenia, which then had a Turkish majority. Armenians were brought in and given the old Muslim lands. The Russians used their fellow Christians in maintaining a Christian base in Armenia. In fact the Armenians were not a majority in Ottoman lands either.  

There were roughly 100 years of animosity between Moslems and Christians in the Caucasus, after centuries of living with eachother. Soon, however, both sides killed. Armies fought. And remarkably both sides lost 40% of there population in those very same zones.

In Anatolia, Armenian nationalists attempted to create an Armenian state during the 19th-20'th centuries. They tried to claim Ottoman lands. Lands that were three-fourths Muslim.

In world war I many Ottomans were lost due to failures against the Russian army. Further losses were exacerbated when Armenians sided with the Russians and carried out a guerilla war. Ottoman rebels attempted to sieze major Ottoman cities, cut communication lines, assasinated officials, and forced the Ottomans to withdraw troops from various fronts in order to fight this internal enemy. The Armenian rebels were very successful in the city of Van. The largest city in southeastern Anatolia. They seized Van and held it till the Russian army arrived. The Ottomans, fearful of continued rebelion, deported Armenians form Anatolia to Syria and Iraq. It should also be noted that a large majority of those deported survived. A much larger portion than the Muslims and Armenians who were at the edges of both Russian and Ottoman empires. After the Armenians seized Van they killed every Muslim who did not escape (Turks and Kurds). Reprisals came from the Mulsims.  Back to the war front with the Ottomans, retreating Armenians had finally lost to the Ottomans. Armenians killed all the Turks they could find during their retreat. In turn Turkish locals hunted down Armenians.

oh come on, it's just a personal-memory-stuff to persuade only the ones who approach the issue subjectively.

a lot of armenian in Turkey were adopted after 1915, and living as muslim, in a result of the muslim enviroment.  turks, lazis, kurds(oh, god, even kurds), armenians, greeks, assyrians, syrianis, everyone was confident to live together.

no ethnicity needed to live in a seperated district (like modern(!) cities)

before duty, Turkish soldiers confided their families usually to armenian neighbours.

a mother to throw her child into a lake, instead of leaving to a turk cannot exist till 1915, she would already immigrated to another country

You call it adopted, the rest of the world calls it ethnic cleansing of orphans, no Armenian wanted to give their child up to anyone. As it was written, some mothers would throw their children in lakes rather than have their children assimilated or have them starve to death. Some were forced due to the circumstances, others were taken away and given to Muslim families.

I dont get what you mean by that statement.

Why would there be Kurdish bandits running wild and free unless the government wanted them to? You're telling me the mighty Ottoman Empire could not protect starving Armenian women and children from unarmed Kurds?

If you cant take measures to protect a group of people, you have no right to deport them. Its as simple as that.

Mighty Ottoman Empire??Even though the Ottoman Empire had an army they still were untrained and they would never be able to cope with western style armies or guerilla gangs armed with russian rifles.They practically had no navy either.The most important ships were those two they had bought from the Germans!By the way deporting them without being able to protect them from cold starvation or bandits is the major reason so many Armenians have died.(estimated numbers are between 300.000 to 600.000)

All the army was out to battle. In Arabia, North Africa, West Trace, Bulgaria, South Romania, Caucasia.

Enough reason for bandits keep going on???

Thats my point. You cant deport a whole community without having the means to protect them. The few Turkish soldiers just let the Kurdish bandits pick at the women and children. And who deports an entire community from Eastern Anatolia to Arabia on foot with no supplies and no protection?Turks arent dumb, they knew what they were doing. How can you not tell that this was a formula for death? And dont pretend those Turkish soldiers didnt pick off any Armenians on the march, theres plenty of eye-witness accounts to back that up.

You're saying the Ottoman army was in Arabia, and that happens to be the same place they were deporting the Armenians! And you claim they had no means to protect them...please.

And you claim the Ottoman army was in Caucasia, so tell me how Armenian villagers massacred 500,000 Turks in that area if the Ottoman army was present. I would like to know how that is remotely possible, considering the few guns any Armenians had were completely outdated, not to mention the Ottoman army is right there in front of them.

This is from a human rights site. I was looking up information on the differences of turkey and the ottoman empire, not to fi nd anything wrong with Turkey, that wasn't my intentions, I just wanted to know more about your country. Anyways this I found on the second link down in a seacrh engine. The site seems a bit anti-Turkey, I tried finding out who these people were but it turns out they are from California, this doesn't represent how Americans feel about turkey though.

WARNING: PICTURES ARE GRAPHIC BELOW

Armenian Genocide - 1915-1918 - 1,500,000 Deaths

The Armenian Genocide, the first genocide of the 20th Century, occurred when two million Armenians living in Turkey were eliminated from their historic homeland through forced deportations and massacres.

For three thousand years, a thriving Armenian community had existed inside the vast region of the Middle East bordered by the Black, Mediterranean and Caspian Seas. The area, known as Asia Minor, stands at the crossroads of three continents; Europe, Asia and Africa. Great powers rose and fell over the many centuries and the Armenian homeland was at various times ruled by Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs and Mongols.

Despite the repeated invasions and occupations, Armenian pride and cultural identity never wavered. The snow-capped peak of Mount Ararat became its focal point and by 600 BC Armenia as a nation sprang into being. Following the advent of Christianity, Armenia became the very first nation to accept it as the state religion. A golden era of peace and prosperity followed which saw the invention of a distinct alphabet, a flourishing of literature, art, commerce, and a unique style of architecture. By the 10th century, Armenians had established a new capital at Ani, affectionately called the 'city of a thousand and one churches.'

In the eleventh century, the first Turkish invasion of the Armenian homeland occurred. Thus began several hundred years of rule by Muslim Turks. By the sixteenth century, Armenia had been absorbed into the vast and mighty Ottoman Empire. At its peak, this Turkish empire included much of Southeast Europe, North Africa, and almost all of the Middle East.

But by the 1800s the once powerful Ottoman Empire was in serious decline. For centuries, it had spurned technological and economic progress, while the nations of Europe had embraced innovation and became industrial giants. Turkish armies had once been virtually invincible. Now, they lost battle after battle to modern European armies.

As the empire gradually disintegrated, formerly subject peoples including the Greeks, Serbs and Romanians achieved their long-awaited independence. Only the Armenians and the Arabs of the Middle East remained stuck in the backward and nearly bankrupt empire, now under the autocratic rule of Sultan Abdul Hamid.

By the 1890s, young Armenians began to press for political reforms, calling for a constitutional government, the right to vote and an end to discriminatory practices such as special taxes levied solely against them because they were Christians. The despotic Sultan responded to their pleas with brutal persecutions. Between 1894 and 1896 over 100,000 inhabitants of Armenian villages were massacred during widespread pogroms conducted by the Sultan's special regiments.

But the Sultan's days were numbered. In July 1908, reform-minded Turkish nationalists known as "Young Turks" forced the Sultan to allow a constitutional government and guarantee basic rights. The Young Turks were ambitious junior officers in the http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Turkish_distortions_denial.htm - Turkish Army who hoped to halt their country's steady decline.

Armenians in Turkey were delighted with this sudden turn of events and its prospects for a brighter future. Both Turks and Armenians held jubilant public rallies attended with banners held high calling for freedom, equality and justice.

However, their hopes were dashed when three of the Young Turks seized full control of the government via a coup in 1913. This triumvirate of Young Turks, consisting of Mehmed Talaat, Ismail Enver and Ahmed Djemal, came to wield dictatorial powers and concocted their own ambitious plans for the future of Turkey. They wanted to unite all of the Turkic peoples in the entire region while expanding the borders of Turkey eastward across the Caucasus all the way into Central Asia. This would create a new Turkish empire, a "great and eternal land" called Turan with one language and one religion.

But there was a big problem. The traditional historic homeland of Armenia lay right in the path of their plans to expand eastward. And on that land was a large population of Christian Armenians totaling some two million persons, making up about 10 percent of Turkey's overall population.

Along with the Young Turk's newfound "Turanism" there was a dramatic rise in Islamic fundamentalist agitation throughout Turkey. Christian Armenians were once again branded as infidels (non-believers in Islam). Young Islamic extremists, sometimes leading to violence, staged anti-Armenian demonstrations. During one such outbreak in 1909, two hundred villages were plundered and over 30,000 persons massacred in the Cilicia district on the Mediterranean coast. Throughout Turkey, sporadic local attacks against Armenians continued unchecked over the next several years.

There were also big cultural differences between Armenians and Turks. The Armenians had always been one of the best-educated communities within the old Turkish Empire. Armenians were the professionals in society, the businessmen, lawyers, doctors and skilled craftsmen. And they were more open to new scientific, political and social ideas from the West (Europe and America). Children of wealthy Armenians went to Paris, Geneva or even to America to complete their education.

By contrast, the majority of Turks were illiterate peasant farmers and small shopkeepers. Leaders of the Ottoman Empire had traditionally placed little value on education and not a single institute of higher learning could be found within their old empire. The various autocratic and despotic rulers throughout the empire's history had valued loyalty and blind obedience above all. Their uneducated subjects had never heard of democracy or liberalism and thus had no inclination toward political reform. But this was not the case with the better-educated Armenians who sought political and social reforms that would improve life for themselves and Turkey's other minorities.

The Young Turks decided to glorify the virtues of simple Turkish peasantry at the expense of the Armenians in order to capture peasant loyalty. They exploited the religious, cultural, economic and political differences between Turks and Armenians so that the average Turk came to regard Armenians as strangers among them.

When World War I broke out in 1914, leaders of the Young Turk regime sided with the Central Powers (Germany and Austria-Hungary). The outbreak of war would provide the perfect opportunity to solve the "Armenian question" once and for all. The world's attention became fixed upon the battlegrounds of France and Belgium where the young men of Europe were soon falling dead by the hundreds of thousands. The Eastern Front eventually included the border between Turkey and Russia. With war at hand, unusual measures involving the civilian population would not seem too out of the ordinary.

As a prelude to the coming action, Turks disarmed the entire Armenian population under the pretext that the people were naturally sympathetic toward Christian Russia. Every last rifle and pistol was forcibly seized, with severe penalties for anyone who failed to turn in a weapon. Quite a few Armenian men actually purchased a weapon from local Turks or Kurds (nomadic Muslim tribesmen) at very high prices so they would have something to turn in.

At this time, about forty thousand Armenian men were serving in the Turkish Army. In the fall and winter of 1914, all of their weapons were confiscated and they were put into slave labor battalions building roads or were used as human pack animals. Under the brutal work conditions they suffered a very high death rate. Those who survived would soon be shot outright. For the time had come to move against the Armenians.

The decision to annihilate the entire population came directly from the ruling triumvirate of ultra-nationalist Young Turks. The actual extermination orders were transmitted in coded telegrams to all provincial governors throughout Turkey. Armed roundups began on the evening of April 24, 1915, as 300 Armenian political leaders, educators, writers, clergy and dignitaries in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were taken from their homes, briefly jailed and tortured, then hanged or shot.

Next, there were mass arrests of Armenian men throughout the country by Turkish soldiers, police agents and bands of Turkish volunteers. The men were tied together with ropes in small groups then taken to the outskirts of their town and shot dead or bayoneted by death squads. Local Turks and Kurds armed with knives and sticks often joined in on the killing.

Then it was the turn of Armenian women, children, and the elderly. On very short notice, they were ordered to pack a few belongings and be ready to leave home, under the pretext that they were being relocated to a non-military zone for their own safety. They were actually being taken on death marches heading south toward the Syrian Desert.

Muslim Turks who assumed instant ownership of everything quickly occupied most of the homes and villages left behind by the rousted Armenians. In many cases, local Turks who took them from their families spared young Armenian children from deportation. The children were coerced into denouncing Christianity and becoming Muslims, and were then given new Turkish names. For Armenian boys the forced conversion meant they each had to endure painful circumcision as required by Islamic custom.

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Turkish.php - Turkish gendarmes escorted individual caravans consisting of thousands of deported Armenians. These guards allowed roving government units of hardened criminals known as the "Special Organization" to attack the defenseless people, killing anyone they pleased. They also encouraged Kurdish bandits to raid the caravans and steal anything they wanted. In addition, an extraordinary amount of sexual abuse and rape of girls and young women occurred at the hands of the Special Organization and Kurdish bandits. Most of the attractive young females were kidnapped for a life of involuntary servitude.

The death marches during the Armenian Genocide, involving over a million Armenians, covered hundreds of miles and lasted months. Indirect routes through mountains and wilderness areas were deliberately chosen in order to prolong the ordeal and to keep the caravans away from Turkish villages.

Food supplies being carried by the people quickly ran out and they were usually denied further food or water. Anyone stopping to rest or lagging behind the caravan was mercilessly beaten until they rejoined the march. If they couldn't continue they were shot. A common practice was to force all of the people in the caravan to remove every stitch of clothing and have them resume the march in the nude under the scorching sun until they dropped dead by the roadside from exhaustion and dehydration.

An estimated 75 percent of the Armenians on these marches perished, especially children and the elderly. Those who survived the ordeal were herded into the desert without a drop of water. Being thrown off cliffs, burned alive, or drowned in rivers.

During the Armenian Genocide, the Turkish countryside became littered with decomposing corpses. At one point, Mehmed Talaat responded to the problem by sending a coded message to all provincial leaders: "I have been advised that in certain areas unburied corpses are still to be seen. I ask you to issue the strictest instructions so that the corpses and their debris in your vilayet are buried."

But his instructions were generally ignored. Those involved in the mass murder showed little interest in stopping to dig graves. The roadside corpses and emaciated deportees were a shocking sight to foreigners working in Turkey. Eyewitnesses included German government liaisons, American missionaries, and U.S. diplomats stationed in the country.

During the Armenian Genocide, the Christian missionaries were often threatened with death and were unable to help the people. Diplomats from the still neutral United States communicated their blunt assessments of the ongoing government actions. U.S. ambassador to Turkey, Henry Morgenthau, reported to Washington: "When the http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Turkish_crimes_pictures.htm - Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving the death warrant to a whole race..."

The Allied Powers (Great Britain, France, Russia) responded to news of the massacres by issuing a warning to Turkey: "...the Allied governments announce publicly...that they will hold all the members of the Ottoman Government, as well as such of their agents as are implicated, personally responsible for such matters."

The warning had no effect. Newspapers in the West including the New York Times published reports of the continuing deportations with the headlines: Armenians Are Sent to Perish in the Desert - Turks Accused of Plan to Exterminate Whole Population (August 18, 1915) - Million Armenians Killed or in Exile - American Committee on Relief Says Victims of Turks Are Steadily Increasing - Policy of Extermination (December 15, 1915).

Temporary relief for some Armenians came as Russian troops attacked along the Eastern Front and made their way into central Turkey. But the troops withdrew in 1917 upon the Russian Revolution. Armenian survivors withdrew along with them and settled in among fellow Armenians already living in provinces of the former Russian Empire. There were in total about 500,000 Armenians gathered in this region.

In May 1918, Turkish armies attacked the area to achieve the goal of expanding Turkey eastward into the Caucasus and also to resume the annihilation of the Armenians. As many as 100,000 Armenians may have fallen victim to the advancing Turkish troops.

However, the Armenians managed to acquire weapons and they fought back, finally repelling the Turkish invasion at the battle of Sardarabad, thus saving the remaining population from total extermination with no help from the outside world. Following that victory, Armenian leaders declared the establishment of the independent Republic of Armenia.

World War I ended in November 1918 with a defeat for Germany and the Central Powers including Turkey. Shortly before the war had ended, the Young Turk triumvirate; Talaat, Enver and Djemal, abruptly resigned their government posts and fled to Germany where they had been offered asylum.

In the months that followed, repeated requests by Turkey�s new moderate government and the Allies were made asking Germany to send the Young Turks back home to stand trial. However all such requests were turned down. As a result, Armenian activists took matters into their own hands, located the Young Turks and assassinated them along with two other instigators of the mass murder.

Meanwhile, representatives from the fledgling Republic of Armenia attended the Paris Peace Conference in the hope that the victorious Allies would give them back their historic lands seized by Turkey. The European Allies responded to their request by asked the United States to assume guardianship of the new Republic. However, President Woodrow Wilson's attempt to make Armenia an official U.S. protectorate was rejected by the U.S. Congress in May 1920.

But Wilson did not give up on Armenia. As a result of his efforts, the Treaty of Sevres was signed on August 10, 1920 by the Allied Powers, the Republic of Armenia, and the new moderate leaders of Turkey. The treaty recognized an independent Armenian state in an area comprising much of the former historic homeland.

However, Turkish nationalism once again reared its head. The moderate Turkish leaders who signed the treaty were ousted in favor of a new nationalist leader, Mustafa Kemal, who simply refused to accept the treaty and even re-occupied the very lands in question then expelled any surviving Armenians, including thousands of orphans.

No Allied power came to the aid of the Armenian Republic and it collapsed. Only a tiny portion of the easternmost area of historic Armenia survived by being becoming part of the Soviet Union.

After the successful obliteration of the people of historic Armenia during the Armenian Genocide, the Turks demolished any remnants of Armenian cultural heritage including priceless masterpieces of ancient architecture, old libraries and archives. The Turks even leveled entire cities such as the once thriving Kharpert, Van and the ancient capital at Ani, to remove all traces of the three thousand year old civilization.

Refering to the Armenian Genocide, the young German politician Adolf Hitler duly noted the half-hearted reaction of the world�s great powers to the plight of the Armenians. After achieving total power in Germany, Hitler decided to conquer Poland in 1939 and told his generals: "Thus for the time being I have sent to the East only my 'Death's Head Units' with the orders to kill without pity or mercy all men, women, and children of Polish race or language. Only in such a way will we win the vital space that we need. Who still talks nowadays about the Armenians?"

...every book ever written about the genocide mentions deportations. The Turkish government even claims it. There are pictures to prove it, and many eye-witness accounts to back it up. Where do you want me to begin?

The way most people look at it, and through my research and lack of Turkish evidence to overturn it, the way i look at it is this:

Nationalism was taking hold in Ottoman Turkey, some people had an idea which is known as Pan-Turkism, in which they wanted to unite all branches of their race (basically from Turkey to Central Asia). The only nation that is in their way was the Armenians. Notice though, this was only the wish of certain government officials. Much of the Turkish population did not hold these ideals.

Armenians were being murdered before the deportations. This is our claim. But most districts of Armenia didnt know about the Armenians being massacred, so when the Ottoman soldiers came they said "were going to take you out of the war zone, we need this as a military holding." So the Armenians went with them and got massacred by Ottoman soldiers, and the Kurdish bandits who were released by the Ottoman government. How else do you explain thousands of Kurdish bandits just running around freely?

Then, once word spread to the Eastern villayets where there was heavy Armenian populations, the Armenians tried to take up whatever arms they could to defend themselves. This was nearly impossible, seeing as they had been disarmed before the war because the 'military needed the guns', and most able-bodied men were serving in the army. So the men that did remain had very few, outdated guns. They made brave attempts, but the Ottomans just sent in group after group of soldiers and through attrition the Armenians lost. They would take out some villages simply by breaking into houses in the middle of the night and taking families away on the deportation march to Arabia. The able-bodied men were always killed first, which explains why you never see able-bodied men in the deportation photos, its only women and children and the elderly. Basically on the marches they would kill whoever was too slow to keep up, and they would just take groups of people and just shoot them on the road and dump them on the wayside. This explains the mass amount of Armenian bodies on these roads. A lot of bodies werent found because i have read from many sources that they would use methods such as:

1. Tying up people and throwing them into rivers and lakes.
2. Putting hundreds upon hundreds of people in caves and lighting the mouth of the cave on fire, so they had no escape.
3. They had pre-prepared graves in the beginning for the able-bodied men.

I have read these from numerous sources, such as Armenian, Turkish, and neutral. This explains why there arent 1.5 million bodies lying around. Most peoples remains are just piles of bones that were thrown into rivers or lakes or into wells, or simply buried in pits.

The reason no one helped? I dont know at the moment. When the British were asked to help the Armenians, they responded by saying "British ships cannot cross the mountains of the Caucasus." Woodrow Wilson was urging world leaders to stop the genocide, he even drew a map of what should be an 'independent Armenia'. Of course, everyone was preoccupied with the world war. And after the war, they just dismissed it because Turkey had claimed to become a Republic, and the West needed their alliance because their interests were rooted in the Middle East, and Turkey has many places for U.S. military bases. This, obviously, is the case today, which is why the U.S. refuses to pass the genocide bill. Every president from Ronald Reagon to George W. Bush has adressed the issue annually, saying that we should remember those Armenians who were murdered during WWI.

The Armenian Genocide recognition bill actually hit the floor of Congress for a vote in 1998. Bill Clinton recieved a phonecall just minutes before the voting, and it was the Turkish Government telling him "if you pass this bill American lives will be in danger." What did Turkey mean by this, i have no idea, but it doesnt sound like two allies speaking. Bill Clinton called the House floor and made them pull the bill, just minutes before it was about to be voted on.

Not to say that there weren't any Armenian guerillas, there were. But Armenian communities did not organize these men, they were rebel groups trying to defend villages from oncomming Ottoman soldiers. Keep in mind, this was not the first massacre of Armenians. 1895-1896 Sultan Abdul-Hamid murdered over 100,000 Armenians (many sources on this), and in 1909 i believe it was 20,000 Armenians killed. So you see, Armenian guerillas were not the evil revolutionaries people make them out to be. Whether they killed innocent people, i wouldnt know. But this was not Armenian government order, the guerillas were there own entity within the Armenian villayets and mountains.

This is my take without going into detail, so i might have left some things out. But that is the very general overview of what i believe has happened. I have read Armenian, Turkish, and neutral sources, and that is the result of my reading. I wanted to keep it shortened so its readable.

Your comments on my post are appreciated.

@SearchandDestroy

Incredible post. Mine was just a personal shortened version. You have done your research .

Armenian attacks on innocent Turks.

Turkish dead:

Armenain gangs:

Testimonies:Testimonies with oath of Ali and Fethullah, sons of Hamid Bey from the notables of Hanianik village and Selim, Mahmud and Yakub, sons Hacı Bey(14.4.1916)

In the middle of June, 1915, at dawn, the Armenians and Russian surrounded our village and told us to submit ourselves and nobody should have the village When we rejected their offer and upon our first bullet, that we tired to defend ourselves, they attacked our village like wild animals. The screams of help were coming from everywhere. Our village turned out to be a slaughterhouse within one minute. We recognized Nişan, Murad, Oseb, Dikran, Zaho, Beyko, Sergis, Tangasal, Gazar, Mosis who were residing at the villages in the vicinity, among Armenians. The Armenians were killing the Moslems, while screaming "Long live Aram Pasha". We witnessed a horrible scenery A woman, carrying her child on her breast was running for being saved. One of the gangs stopped her. Took her child and in front of the eyes of the woman, which were opened wide with wilderness, pushed his bayonet into the body of the child and killed him. That gang, after this execution, killed his mother also. While we were escaping, the above mentioned Armenians were shouting, and saying "Don't escape, we will follow you everywhere, even till Damascus!".

Testimonies with oath of Mehmed, son of Bulmaz; H�seyin, son of Mehmed; Hac� �brahim, son of Ahmed and Hasan, son of Yusuf, from the immigrants who came to Tad�m village from H�n�s (5.6.1916)
    We are from Molla Kula� village which is an hour away from H�n�s. During the invasion of our territory by the Russian, the Armenians called Vahan and Aleksandr Asoyan, who were from the same village with us, together with certain amount of cavalrymen attacked suddenly to our village. These people, had already proved that they were from the leaders of Dashnak Committee, through their despot-like and pitiless behaviors. First of all they suffocated more than 20 children, they cut the abdomens of some pregnant women with knife and put the children that come out on top of their bayonets and showed them to their fathers. They called their assistants to swear to the died women. Vahan and Aleksander, after promising that they would release us at night, they themselves and their assistants chose a beautiful woman for each of them, from the notable families. Later on, they imprisoned 12 women and 28 children in a house. After the midnight observing the drunkenness of these Armenians was still continuing, with the help of one of my friends, we were able to rescue the imprisoned women and children and leaving all our propery at the village, we escaped. Now, in our village, where there were 250 Moslems, only 35 people were left. We are all in poverty.

Testimony of Latife Hanım, wife of Supply officer Hasan Fahri Efendi, from 1 st Battalion, 97th Regiment (28.6.1916)

During the first invasion of Van by Russian units and the Armenian gangs, only a small potion of the people could go away from the city. As there were no transportation vehicles, the majority of the people stayed in the city, and they thought that the forces invading the city belonged to a civilized nation and they would show respect to the lives, and honor of the unprotected people. The situation was not as they thought. The Armenians which constituted the advance force of the enemy, did not prevent the occupation, their evacuation and putting on fire. The people, who were in panic, gathered at the major houses of the city.
The men were arrested, the women were taken to the buildings of the American Institutes. More than 10.000 people were gathered there. The Armenians and Kazakhs chose a woman every night and took her out. Most of the women who were taken out, were killed, after being raped.
Reyhan Hanım, wife of Gendarme sergeant Mahmud, and Piruze Hanım., wife of Nasır Efendi (from Selim Bey district of Van)., have also told these hateful events that the people were subjected to.

In spite of the goal attitudes of Turks, Armenians, who began to struggle against Turks by allying with foreign states, started to show themselves as "oppressed society" and to claim that "Turks had usurped their sovereignty rights over Anatolia" for the purpose of getting the support of the West. >>

The Armenian problem was put into agenda for the first time at the end of the Ottoman-Russian War dated 1877-1878. The Russians wanted the Ottomans to withdraw from the places they usurped, to give autonomy to the region or to accept the reform demand in favour of the Armenians. The Armenian Committees, who took courage from them, as a result of the provocations, rebelled several times primarily the Erzurum Rebellion in 1890 and then the Kumkapı Demonstration, city of Kayseri, city of Yozgat, city of �orum and city of Merzifon Uprisal, Sason Rebellion, Bab-ı Ali Demonstration, city of Zeytun and city of Van Rebellion, Occupation of the Ottoman Bank, conspiracy attempt against Abdulhamit II (34^th Ottoman Sultan) and Adana Rebellion in 1909. During these rebellions, in 1914 100 in Zeytun, in 1915 Van Uprisal 3000 and 1914 Muş Uprisal 20.000 Turkish people died as a result of the Armenian oppression. According to the Ottoman archives, 517.955 Turkish people were killed by Armenian Committees at the same term.>>

The Armenians gave the biggest harm to Turkish people be the massacres they conducted during World War I. In this period, the Armenians carried out espionage activities on behalf of the Russians, deserted from military service without obeying the recruitment call-up made in accordance with the mobilization, and the ones, who were recruited, passed to the Russian side with their weapons and totally committed the "Betray to the Homeland" crime.>>

In spite of all the good intentions of Ottoman Government, because of the increase of the Armenian uprisals and the Armenian attacks against Turkish women and children and since the army was in a war in lots of fronts, Armenian Committees were closed on 24 April 1915 and 2345 of its managers were arrested for "conducting activities against State". On 27 May 1915, the Ottoman Government passed the "Deportation Law" for the "transfer and settlement" of the people in the theater as well as the ones, who conducted espionage and betrayal activities against the Ottoman State, separately or altogether to the distant places from the theater. The people who were subject to Ordu-Kastamonu, Ankara-Niğde, Malatya-Maraş, Diyarbakır-Urfa-Adana and Syria-Iraq regions within the boundaries of the Empire and it can be proved by the documents that by October 1916 totally 702.900 people were migrated. Contrary to the claims of the Armenians, the killing of the 2-3 millions of people is not possible, because there had already been nearly 1.230.000 Armenians in the Ottoman State. Beyond this, is the Ottoman State wanted to get rid of its Armenian subjects, it could overcome this problem by assimilating them. But as it was explained, the Armenians had a better life in the Empire even than the Turks. >>

Contrary to the claims of the Armenians, in the 1915 the implementation aimed at the Armenians in the Eastern Anatolia was only a migration activity to a different region within the Empire for the purpose of providing the security and it wasn't concerned with the genocide. So the alleged genocide claim is absolutely a fiction which depends on no document and evidence, is lack of a legal ground and constructed on the enmity against Turks. >>

In fact the Armenians had to migrate for several times in the past because of their betrayals against the states where they lived.

The American Prof. Bernard Lewis and Prof. Stanford Shaw were exposed to intensive reaction of the Armenians because of their thesis regarding the genocide that it didn't reflect the truth. Also, Dr. Karakın Pastırmamacıyan have stated that nearly 15.000 Armenians living around Erzurum had left Turkey of their own free will, the Armenians were not a treatment like a genocide. In 1998 House of Lords of UK were exposed to question about the genocide and gave the following answer :"The Armenian genocide could not be proved".>>

However, the best answer for the Armenian genocide was given by an Armenian. In the "Congress on the problems of World Armenians" held in 1982, the Armenian origined American Professor Hovannisian briefed the Armenian problem by saying "The Armenian problem could not be proved. The genocide is not valid legally and it is exposed to prescription". In short, there is no genocide implemented to Armenians by Turks and there has never been.

Seko, no one has claimed 3 million Armenian lives lost. Our claim is 1-1.5 million out of the 2 million Armenians in the Empire. 2 million Armenians in the Empire, not 1.2 million. Turkish sources have deflated the census of Armenians.

Even if those rebellions did take place, The Ottomans, by GOVERNMENT ORDER, killed women children and elderly. Please explain how this is justified.

Rebellions were common all over the Ottoman Empire, such as in the Balkans. Do you fault a nation for wanting independence? No one ever forced Turkey to invade and conquer Armenia. And it is not the fault of an ENTIRE NATION for what a few hundred guerillas did. Everyone committed warcrimes, these people were a very small minority. Both sides committed warcrimes on varying degrees. The difference is, Armenian community leaders did not condone the actions of rebel guerillas because there was no order in our districts and we were being massacred. The Ottomans had a government and they carried out their plans in a pre-meditated and organized fashion. It was not the wish of the Turkish citizens to have the Armenians massacred, just as it wasnt the wish of the majority of Armenians and their community leaders to have innocent Turks die. The key word is "die", not "massacred", as Armenians didnt have the means to "massacre" anyone, they had enough worries defending themselves from the Ottoman Army. Turkish attacks were premeditated and organized, Armenian attacks were in defense of being massacred. And these atrocities committed by Armenians are very small in number, the Ottoman Army was in Eastern Anatolia and the Caucasus, which makes it nearly impossible for Armenian villagers with guns to take out entire Turkish villages under the protection of the Ottoman Army.

Theres no way in shape or form you can make Armenians evil, they faught for what they beleaved in. Imagine another country coming into your land and destroying your cultural idenity that goes back thousands of years without a second thaught. On top of that they start killing the citizens, but you and your people were apart of that attacking country and didn't cause any large scale rebellions. Your going to tell me that you'll let that country kick you out of your lands, (which were originally were yours to begin with and your own country before those people even came in) and not fight at all?

Your probably going to say, "Well look at what the US did to the native American" Theres a difference here, even though the Natives did kill entire settlements, disemembered the bodys by cutting out eyes, hearts, and cutting off hands, arms, and legs, it was still our fault for the whole thing to happen to begin with, and our government acknowledges our wrong doing. If your native American you don't have to pay any taxes, and all you have to do is prove that your only 2% native american in your blood line. I think Native Americans can also goto college for free to get a good education, correct me if I'm wrong.

But does the Turkish gov't say anything about there wrong doing? I'd find it hard to beleave when its own citizens don't.

No one killed 1.5 million for one day. The true meaning of April 24, 1915 is below. There is no proof of an Ottoman government sponsored genocide.

On April 24, 1915 Armenian Committees were closed by the Ottoman Government and 2345 leaders of these committees were arrested due to their antigovernmental activities. April 24, which is commemorated annually as "Anniversary of Armenian so-called Genocide" by Armenians abroad is this date when 2345 revolutionary committee members were arrested and this day is irrelevant with the Relocation Implementation.

However, Armenian revolutionary committee members always used this a propaganda rule by distorting and exaggerating the facts.

ArmenianSurvival:  "The key word is "die", not "massacred", as Armenians didnt have the means to "massacre" anyone, they had enough worries defending themselves from the Ottoman Army."

Are you so sure about this? Your ancestors are not innocent of massacres. Time to alter your rose-colored vision of Armenians.

Seko I have nothing against you at all, but the facts say differently. Just because your country did something horrible doesn't mean you have to be ashamed of anything, Armenians didn't give out propaganda, how can they when all they wanted were their acient lands back? The turks took out the educated of the people so they couldn't start a orginized revolution, they educated are always targeted first anything remotly like this and today is the anniversy of the start of the genocide.

Quoted from my post above.

"The decision to annihilate the entire population came directly from the ruling triumvirate of ultra-nationalist Young Turks. The actual extermination orders were transmitted in coded telegrams to all provincial governors throughout Turkey. Armed roundups began on the evening of April 24, 1915, as 300 Armenian political leaders, educators, writers, clergy and dignitaries in Constantinople (present day Istanbul) were taken from their homes, briefly jailed and tortured, then hanged or shot."

Turkish people should be made aware of this, no country is perfect, it becomes more worse and shameful when a country can deny its own past, its just wrong.

You guys deny things from what Armenians say and Greeks say, I'm not saying you guys are wrong on both issues but don't you get any hint out of this that the Turkish gov't doesn't want you guys to know about the past and sugar coats it to make themselves look good and the victims the bad guys. You have to understand that agreeing to these things only makes you a better person for the future, when you can say you agree with it then old wounds can heal on both sides and peaceful relations can be made, but denying it only leaves a bitter taste on both sides.

the only thing you can do is read the other pages

Over twenty years ago I had coined the phrase. Armenian "hate merchants"; but how could I have been so cruel to label my co-religionists in such a manner? Years before my inexplicable situation became evident, I had come face to face with a monster, truly a Frankenstein of hate! The ubiquitous manifestation of maniacal animosity rampant within the Armenian community became very perceptible during my youth. To cognitively comprehend the attitude of Armenians toward the Turkish people, it is necessary to be knowledgeable of the Armenian psyche. One need not be a psychiatrist or a psychologist to recognize a preoccupation with hatred. The spoken word or the results of human behavior describe the intentions of an individual, a community, or a nation. My euphemism. as painful for me as it is. is justified when we observe, (if we have the knowledge to "see") the statements and the actions of the Armenian community, not only in the United States, but as far back as 1862 in Ottoman Turkey! Before there can be a rational and intelligent review of the Turkish-Armenian history and relations, it is vital that the true nature of those who take pride in the Christian faith, be honestly scrutinized. If the uninformed are continually "advised" to learn the nature of the Turk, then is it not proper for us to say, we are obliged to study the nature of the Armenians? The West and particularly the United States, have supported the Armenian allegations against (Ottoman) Turkey as the perpetrators of a mythical "genocide" inflicted upon the Armenians of Ottoman Turkey. This topic will be reviewed in the future column; but how shall we learn of the character of the Armenian in Ottoman Turkey up to the present time in America? To find objective historians, impartial editors. or unbiased politicians, would be a search in futility. Then where are we to turn? Some might say: certainly not this writer, but none of the aforementioned groups could have the influence upon me as did my beloved parents who were witness to Ottoman history! But let us consider the statements of the Armenians themselves.

The following are a few quotations (Holdwater: see original article below) from Armenian writers who are recognized as not being pro-Turkish, how then could we doubt them? Mr. Ara Baliozian writes in part, "True friendship among Armenians is a rare thing indeed..." ? "...Hatred and envy: they seem to come naturally to us..." Mr. Baliozian quotes other Armenian writers as follows: "Every Armenian has another Armenian whom he considers his mortal enemy." "An Armenian's worst enemies are not odars but Armenians." ("Odars" in Armenian translates as stranger or foreigners; yes, I speak Armenian.) Here is an interesting quote: "Our perpetual enemy?the enemy that will eventually destroy us?--is not the Turk but our own complacent superficiality." (How could I argue with that observation?) Mr. Baliozian quotes another Armenian writer who has written: "What kind of people are we?.. .Instead of reason, blind instinct. Instead of common sense, fanaticism." Mr. Baliozian continues: ". . . Our past is filled with countless instances of betrayal and treachery.. ." This last quotation, like no other statement is an inescapable and irrefutable commentary of the Armenians, not only of Ottoman Turkey, but to this very day in the United States.

Let us consider the statement of another Armenian author. In a book written by Louise Nalbandian, The Armenian Revolutionary Movement (The title itself identifies the inherent purpose of radical Armenian groups which betrayed the country in which they had prospered for over six centuries), the following statements are found: ". . .The centers of revolutionary activity in Turkish Armenia were Zeitun, Van, and Erzurum. The Zeitun Rebellion of 1862 was the beginning of extensive uprisings directed against the Ottoman Government. . ." ? ". . .The results of the victory of Zeitun encouraged revolts in other cities in the Ottoman Empire..." ? "...The Aramenakan Party was the first Armenian political party...to engage in revolutionary activities. It was organized at Van in 1885" ? "...Certain episodes indicate the Armenians did not stop at mere defensive action, but also incited trouble and committed terroristic acts" ? "...The Armenian Revolutionary Federation, (founded in 1890), known as DASHNAKTSOUTIOUN, carried on this struggle with all available means: political action, propaganda, and, at times, armed struggle. There is no need to include here many other quotations which discuss the events taking place in Ottoman Turkey BEFORE the tragedies of 1915.

As I conclude this offering, may I request of the reader to read again the previous paragraph, and each time you read the words "Ottoman" or "Turkish", make a mental substitution with the words, "The United States of America"! What would have been the reaction of the American government and the American people??! I stand in awe of the humanity of the Turkish people. Until next we met, our work continues...

I find it hard to beleave, theres proof of it everywhere. You type it in a search engine and find 62,100 results on the topic. Theres books on it, countries even today acknowledge it France, Greece, Argentina, and Russia where many of the survivors and decendants went.

The three Turkish men who called for the gencide fled to Germany after WW1 and Turkey wanted them back to stand trial but were killed before they could make it back. You know thousands of people don't just disappear.

I asked this question in a previous post, how would you feel being kicked out of your home land that was your countries for thousands of years before the invaders. Would you fight back in anyways possible or let them take it all away from you?

Then I guess the civilians and soldiers took it into their own hands..

Seko, what makes you think that all those bones are Turkish, and not Armenian? Are the bones in Deir-el-Zor (I have seen some myself) Turkish too?? The Armenians were the ones who deported Turks into the Syrian desert, is that so?

There is plenty of proof, especially in the german archives, and archives around the world.

  http://www.armenocide.net/ - http://www.armenocide.net/

How about if we talk about Turkish authors who recognize the genocide, have written books about it, and are labelled as traitors in Turkey. (Orhan Pamuk, Taner Akcam, Regip Zarakolu, etc.)