God's terrible judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah
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Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29517
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Topic: God's terrible judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: God's terrible judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah
Date Posted: 04-May-2011 at 20:13
According to the Book of Genesis Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone as punishment for their wickedness together with the neighboring towns of Admar and Zeboim. Only Zoar was spared destruction as Lot sheltered there. The description of Sodom's final moments sounds like a volcanic eruption: people blinded by noxious gases, intense heat, complete devastation and the transformation of Lot's wife into a pillar of salt (carbonised like the victims of Pompeii) What exactly had the Sodomites done that so angered God? Was it their toleration of homosexuality? Their lack of hospitality? Or their abominable heathenish worship? |
Replies:
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-May-2011 at 20:20
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Standard viewpoint and doctrine when I was learning this, in Sunday School as a youth, was all three. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-May-2011 at 20:39
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Lack of hospitality doesn't sound that severe: i'd imagine most ancient cities were suspicious of strangers.
On its own, pagan idolatry was unremarkable. There were various evil cults in the Middle East, including one that worshipped the demon Moloch (whose followers included the Carthaginians). Children were incinerated as a sacrifice to this abomination. However, God did not destroy them at that time (though the Israelites would eventually wipe out these wicked men and suppress that barbaric practise). Toleration of homosexuality is more unusual. The only other contemporary civilisation i can think of where homosexual relations were acceptable was ancient Greece. |
Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 05-May-2011 at 21:56
| homosexual acts obviously |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 06-May-2011 at 01:17
If one were to 'rank-order' what I was taught long ago...that was number one followed by paganism. Hospitality or lack thereof was excuse away by bad manners. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 06-May-2011 at 08:08
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"Sharing" of partners with other males/females,activate "alpha"effect.Bisexuality or homosexuality would be result of this.I believe Bible had described city of pleasure and sin,rather than ordinary ancient city.Las Vegas combined with kinky sexual pleasures.Basic one was:incest.I believe that human reproduction out of closest family members,have made us different than animals and more humans.Fritzl case have to remind us about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 06-May-2011 at 08:32
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In those times, The Hospitality rule was paramount. Strangers had no way of knowing if the town they were in was friendly or had an inn.
I identify with the Malay Islanders who don't have a deity, and have the attitude of S*** Happens. They don't need a "Paranormal explanation" for Natural occurances.
Scientists are blaming a meteor impact for the destruction. S and G were in the "Throw out zone" for the Impact debris. [Fire and Brimstone]
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 06-May-2011 at 08:59
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Weird time were those indeed!Isolated cases,that were published,just remind us about reasons Sodom and Gomorrah were created:The anger of God will find you as those from the destroyed cities! |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 06-May-2011 at 16:13
When did Israelites wipe out Phoenicians? Or are you talking about that specific cult? ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 06-May-2011 at 19:43
| I'm talking about the cult. At one point even some of the Israelites followed it. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 07-May-2011 at 04:29
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You are talking about this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hebrew_Israelites more specific about this cult: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b58.html - http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b58.html |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 07-May-2011 at 07:27
Oh I heard about that group, their claim is even more preposterous than that of the Mormons! ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-May-2011 at 12:33
| What nonsense. While the Israelites may have intermarried with Egyptians (who were black) after 40 years in the desert any black features would have disappeared, especially as the Israelites came into contact with Semitic Canaanite women |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 08-May-2011 at 13:32
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Not so fast on that my friend. No one's mentioned the Lembaa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemba_people - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemba_people
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-May-2011 at 13:35
Who is who on this picture than?Red/Brown,"White",Black and Yellow people are inside! |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 10-May-2011 at 17:50
40 years in the desert of Sinai where there are no African tribes but Bedouins. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 10-May-2011 at 19:48
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Exactly. The Ethiopians and Lemba are descended from Jews who left long after Israel's founding (probably during the time of Solomon). But i intend to discuss the Queen of Sheba/Land of Punt in another thread ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 11-May-2011 at 10:53
Nick, 40 years wouldn't be long enough to eliminate Afroid features. Even being isolated from any future genetic ties with anyone of African desent. My Great Grandmother 3x removed was West African. From the limited information I have, she passed away during the Civil War. My grandmother, while very light skinned, still had some hints of her heritage in her facial features. However, the generation I belong to, with light skin and blond hair[well, it was blond once
 ] has no trace.The passage of time here is approx. 150 Years.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 11-May-2011 at 11:13
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Yes Red,now you know how much was i surprised when text was translated.Blond hair,white skin,European very much.We were white as it looks!Course of pharaoh made us slaves!Black people inside our raws made it.It looks as forensic analyses all this.I suppose people,that were conquered by Alexander,here on picture had done that: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-r46JS53EW2M/TamDYdc6RTI/AAAAAAAAAZE/3WcOqYscGCY/s1600/Battle_of_Issus.jpg - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-r46JS53EW2M/TamDYdc6RTI/AAAAAAAAAZE/3WcOqYscGCY/s1600/Battle_of_Issus.jpg Do you have better idea? |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 11-May-2011 at 13:37
For the sake of argument, let us say that 4 decades in the desert were not enough to dilute the Afroid features. I don't recall any of the Jews staying in the desert, they all went to Canaan with Moses. So none of those who supposedly would have married African women, and remember that Jews are strictly discouraged to marry a non-Israelite, would have actually become separated and form a distinct people later on. Anyhow, I don't see how Jewish genetics would have reached all the way to south Africa. It says that they found some Middle-eastern heritage in 50% of the lemba population. Bravo, but wouldn't that be more likely people from the Southern part of the Arabian peninsula who are actually closer to east Africa and South Africa and who happened to trade throughout the Red Sea? ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 14:33
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Could Sodom have been destroyed by a meteor? As demonstrated in the Tunguska explosion the impact could have been similar to that of an atom bomb. Everything would have been consumed by fire and the land would have remained irradiated for many years ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 14:40
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Anythings possible Nick but I am more inclined to believe asteroid blow back effect as cited in this dated but still interesting article........ http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article3649054.ece - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article3649054.ece
to my knowledge meteors are not as well known for this other then circular crater fashion. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2011 at 21:18
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The Fomenko Group feels that both of these cities can be visited today near the small volcano that overlooks Naples!
In all of history, as far as I know, there exists only two volcanos that can dupilcate two famous Biblical events, I.e.- the distruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the volcano that provided a "pillar of smoke during the day and a pillar of fire at night!", as well as some of the events that plagued the Egyptians. You did know that there existed a small river in or near Naples that was called "Nilus", etc.? The FG, probably considers the eruption of Vesuvius in 1631 CE as the most likely culprit. Regards, http://http://www.vesuvioinrete.it/e_storia.htm - http://www.vesuvioinrete.it/e_storia.htm ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 20-May-2012 at 20:02
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The Sodomites weren't always wicked. Abraham was once friends with the king of Sodom and fought alongside him against the Elamites
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 01:07
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Yep... but apparently he was not keen on the idea of association with known sodomites. So where ya might fight for and with one for one day and reason; that isn't necessarily a requirement for continued association.
Especially at the personal level and given your inner revulsion as a result of your agreement/s with the almighty. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Abudhar
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 09:40
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Interesting topic initiated by the ever Active NICK 1986 , please allow me to complete such relevant data according to both the HOLY QURAN & THE HOLY BIBLE , here is a brief and modest contribution taken from different sources: *Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah (Lūṭ لوط and "The People of Lot")
*According to the Bible, after visiting Prophet Abraham, two angels go to the city of Sodom in which Abraham's nephew Lot is a foreigner. They tell him God will soon destroy the city because of the wickedness of the people. The men of the city, upon hearing that Lot is entertaining male visitors, converge upon his house and demand that the men be brought out so that they can have sex with them. Lot offers his daughters in their place, but the men insist upon raping the angels instead. After blinding the city's inhabitants, the angels tell Lot and his family to flee by night and to not look back. The following morning, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with a shower of fiery stones from the sky. Lot's wife looked back to see the burning city and was turned into a pillar of salt. *The story continues further after the destruction of the twin cities, with Lot leaving Zoar (where he had fled for refuge) with his two daughters to live in a cave, as such fearing that all the men were dead, the daughters decided that in order to 'preserve the seed of their father and procreate they must have sexual intercourse with him and so they decide to get him into a drunken stupor so as to be able to 'lie with him' and obtain his seed ,and so they each sleep with their father (one each on successive nights), having intoxicated him to a point wherein he could 'perceive not, and thus get impregnated by him.
*According to the Qur'an, Lot (or Lut, as he is called in the Qur'an) was a http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Prophets_of_God&action=edit&redlink=1 - Prophet . He was also a nephew of Prophet IBRAHIM OR ABRAHAM , therefore a group of Angels visited Ibrahim as guests and gave him glad tidings of a son "endowed with wisdom, they told him that they had been sent by Allah to the "guilty people" of Sodom, to destroy themwith "a shower of stones of clay(brimstone) and deliver Lot and those who believed in him. However, Lot's wife was specifically excluded, with the angels saying "she is of those who lag behind.
*Furthermore the Holy Qur'an draws upon Lot's wife as an "example for the unbelievers", as she was married to a righteous man but refused to believe in his words; hence, she was condemned to the hellfire and always according to the Holy Book,the people of Sodom & Gomorrah, to which Lot had been sent with Allah's message, indulged in the abominable sin of homosexuality upon Lot's exhorting them to abandon their transgression against Allah, they ridiculed him and went to threaten him with dire consequences.
*Exhausting all pacific means , Prophet LOT prayed to Allah to be saved from doing as they did; when the Angels came to him, he became distressed. Knowing well the character of his people and feeling himself powerless to protect them, he said: "this is a distressful day . when his people—overjoyed at the news of new visitors in the village—came to snatch them away from Lot, he tried to convince them to refrain from practicing their lusts on the male visitors and offered his own daughters in marriage to them in exchange for the visitors release.
But much to his chagrin, the men of Sodom were unrelenting and replied: "we have no need of thy daughters: indeed you know quite well what we want!!! such event is properly described in the Holy Qur'an " they moved blindly in the frenzy of approaching death", Seeing that Lot was powerless to protect them, the visitors revealed to him that they were angels sent by Allah to punish his people for their transgressions. They advised Lot to leave the place during the night and not look back, informing him that his wife would be left behind due to her sinful nature , while (the Angels) "...were about to bring down upon the folk of this township a fury from the sky because they are evil-doers". Keeping his faith in Allah, Lot left his home and the cities during the night with his family and others who believed in him only his wife stayed behind.
*When morning came, Almighty Allah "turned the cities upside down, and rained down on them Brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer, as such putting an end to the lives of the people and exclaiming: "so taste ye My Wrath and My Warning!" according to the HolyQur'an,the Qur'an refers to the sites of Sodom and Gomorrah as "signs for those who understand by example", for those who "care to understand" and those who "fear a grievous penalty or a painful doom". * The story of Lot in the Qur'an ends after describing this event, and thereafter is used by Allah as an example stating "and most surely you pass by them (Sodom and Gomorrah) by the day, and at night; do you not then understand????
In this context , and in an Academic & Scientific approach , we may found some differences between the Holy Quran & the Holy Bible:
------------- Seek Knowledge from the Cradle to the Grave-Prophet Mohamed(P.B.U.H) |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 12:57
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According to recent science both towns were in the throwout zone of an asteroid or meteor impact to the North some 500 miles. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 13:53
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I opened this in the hope that some thesis was being proposed for the location of a historical Sodom and Gomorrah. Instead I found a Sunday School discussion. I once read a rabbinical viewpoint of Sodom and Gomorrah which assumed they were fictitious, given the lack of archaeological proof, and instead argued that the stories were put into the bible in response to the gut-wrenching negative reaction that Hellenic culture of the period engendered among observant Palestinian Jews. I thought that religious proselytizing was frowned upon in this forum. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 14:10
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Well, they were nuked so what archaeological remanants are you looking for?
------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 18:35
It is. But the key there is the prefix phrase-word undue. And at this point, it's not being unduly promulgated necessarily as I and others interpret and enforce the CoC. Nor has there been an undue effort to date by a particular individual promoting a particuar theological ideaology. If that occurs, I/others will know and then take action as necessary. This probably belongs in the Intellectual/Philo-Theo sub. But it's not something I personally, considering that both scientific and or theological explanations have been offered, as member or moderator, am losing sleep over. ps. I would like to further explore that example of yours reference the rabbibincal explanation... so if you might have a link... would appreciate it.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 21-May-2012 at 19:43
Some historians believe Sodom and Gomorrah weren't real cities but a parable warning of the consequences of immorality. However, archaeologists have discovered the remains of several Bronze Age towns near the Dead Sea with evidence of burning ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: oxydracae
Date Posted: 22-May-2012 at 10:27
| So, this story proves that Katebs (Holy Books of Muslims, Christians and Jews) are strongly against homosexuality... |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 22-May-2012 at 11:43
Huh! how'd you get there? ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 22-May-2012 at 12:09
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Science has long suspected that an asteroid impact produced the destruction of S&G, not heavenly retribution. For some reason we are wired to require explanations for everything. When a plausible reason for something is lacking, blame it on God.
From Fox news[there are better sources, this was the easiest]
A clay tablet that has baffled scientists for 150 years has been identified as a witness's account of the asteroid suspected of being behind the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Researchers who cracked the cuneiform symbols on the Planisphere tablet believe that it recorded an asteroid thought to have been more than half a mile across. The tablet, found by Henry Layard in the remains of the library in the royal place at Nineveh in the mid-19th century, is thought to be a 700 B.C. copy of notes made by a Sumerian astronomer watching the night sky. He referred to the asteroid as a "white stone bowl approaching" and recorded it as it "vigorously swept along." http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/space/ - • Click here to visit FOXNews.com's Space Center. Using computers to recreate the night sky thousands of years ago, scientists have pinpointed his sighting to shortly before dawn on June 29 in the year 3123 B.C. About half the symbols on the tablet have survived and half of those refer to the asteroid. The other symbols record the positions of clouds and constellations. In the past 150 years scientists have made five unsuccessful attempts to translate the tablet. Mark Hempsell, one of the researchers from Bristol University who cracked the tablet's code, said: "It's a wonderful piece of observation, an absolutely perfect piece of science." He said the size and route of the asteroid meant that it was likely to have crashed into the Austrian Alps at Köfels. As it traveled close to the ground it would have left a trail of destruction from supersonic shock waves and then slammed into the Earth with a cataclysmic impact. Debris consisting of up to two-thirds of the asteroid would have been hurled back along its route and a flash reaching temperatures of 400 Centigrade (752 Fahrenheit) would have been created, killing anyone in its path. About one million sq kilometers (386,000 sq miles) would have been devastated and the impact would have been equivalent to more than 1,000 tons of TNT exploding. Dr Hempsall said that at least 20 ancient myths record devastation of the type and on the scale of the asteroid's impact, including the Old Testament tale of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and the ancient Greek myth of how Phaeton, son of Helios, fell into the River Eridanus after losing control of his father's sun chariot. The findings of Dr. Hempsall and Alan Bond, of Reaction Engines Ltd., are published in a book, "A Sumerian Observation of the Köfels Impact Event." The researchers say that the asteroid's impact would explain why at Köfels there is evidence of an ancient landslide 3 miles wide and a quarter of a mile thick. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343674,00.html#ixzz1vcC2vZ8q - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,343674,00.html#ixzz1vcC2vZ8q ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 22-May-2012 at 19:15
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Biblical Archaeology has an article on the historical Sodom and Gomorrah. They believe the original sin cities were located near the modern settlements of Bab edh-Dhra and Numeira http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/04/the-discovery-of-the-sin-cities-of-sodom-and-gomorrah.aspx - http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/04/the-discovery-of-the-sin-cities-of-sodom-and-gomorrah.aspx ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 23-May-2012 at 15:55
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Well, they know where Zoar was. From there it should be easy. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-May-2012 at 19:07
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As its name suggests, Zoar was originally a small and insignificant town whose main economy was dates before Sodom's destruction
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 24-May-2012 at 07:52
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It still is a small etc. but it, for some reason survived. The cave that lot supposedly sheltered in is nearby. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 31-May-2012 at 19:29
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: tjadams
Date Posted: 31-May-2012 at 22:36
A little demonstration of power to put the fear of God in those doubters, sends a scary message.
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2012 at 11:19
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Don't forget that they wanted to sleep with the angels that God had sent to Lot's house... ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2012 at 13:22
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For which God turned them blind - leaving them unable to flee the city when catastrophe struck. They were also threatening to attack Lot himself.
Lot and his wife and daughters fled to the city of Zoar, and only after they reached there did the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah occur. Lot's wife, therefore, turned around and become a pillar of salt during their safe journey to Zoar, before any cataclysm had even started. Lot and his daughters then fled Zoar and went to the mountains (were they expelled from Zoar as bringers of bad-luck?). In the caves the two daughters got Lot drunk and he uncovered himself with them, which is a parallel to Noah getting drunk and uncovering himself before his sons. Lot's daughter's became pregnant and gave birth to Ben-Ammi and Moab, ancestors to the tribes of the Ammonites and Moabites, born the same time as Isaac, son of Abraham, who was ancestor to the Israelites. It all seems part of a recurring format of a catastrophe/family misfortune myth followed by the birth of a nation (expulsion from Eden/murder of Abel followed by founding of the familes of Cain and Seth; the Flood followed by the founding of main families of Ham, Shem & Japheth; Noah's nakedness followed by the founding of the Canaanites; the tower of Babel followed by the different nations of the world being established; famine and plague followed by the birth of Ishmael; barreness in Gerar followed by the birth of Isaac; destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah follwed by birth of Moab and Ben-Ammi.) |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2012 at 19:19
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In the case of Seth, Ismail and Isaac, their birth in the wake of tragedy provided a strong message of hope and renewal. The Moabites, Canaanites and Ammonites, on the other hand, were placed on earth to punish the Hebrews for their earlier wickedness
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |