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Very ancient civilization found in persian gulf

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28973
Printed Date: 06-Jul-2020 at 03:42
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Topic: Very ancient civilization found in persian gulf
Posted By: balochii
Subject: Very ancient civilization found in persian gulf
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 13:45
Theory Points to Civilization Under Persian Gulf
 
 
Dec. 11) -- The waters of the Persian Gulf may be hiding a lost civilization that could change our understanding of human history, according to new research.

This huge fertile stretch of land may have been home to humans from about 74,000 years ago until about 8,000 years ago, according to http://news.discovery.com/earth/ancient-desert-oasis-echoes-of-eden.html - Discovery News.

When the waters around them began to rise, these early humans may have migrated to what is now the gulf shoreline, founding new settlements there, according to a paper published in the December issue of http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/657397 - Current Anthropology.
Over the past several years, archaeologists have uncovered new evidence of those shoreline settlements.

"Where before there had been but a handful of scattered hunting camps, suddenly, over 60 new archaeological sites appear virtually overnight," Jeffrey Rose of the University of Birmingham said, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40605372/ns/technology_and_science-science/ - according to LiveScience.

"These settlements boast well-built, permanent stone houses, long-distance trade networks, elaborately decorated pottery, domesticated animals, and even evidence for one of the oldest boats in the world," Rose said.

Rose says such sophisticated settlements couldn't have developed so quickly, which is why he believes even older settlements lie beneath gulf waters. If true, Rose's hypothesis could offer a clue as to how and when human beings first departed Africa and settled in the Middle East.

This has long been a topic for debate, with some scientists saying that humans made the migration 125,000 years ago, while others put it closer to 60,000 years ago, LiveScience said.

The now-submerged slice of land would have been about the size of Great Britain, Rose said.

Since it would have received water from the rivers Tigris, Euphrates, Karun and Wadi Baton, it would have offered a fertile refuge from the nearby harsh deserts.

"I think Jeff's theory is bold and imaginative, and hopefully will shake things up," Oxford Brookes University's Robert Carter told LiveScience.

"It would completely rewrite our understanding of the out-of-Africa migration. It is far from proven, but Jeff and others will be developing research programs to test the theory," Carter said.

Rose admits that much work remains be done. So far, he has focused on archaeological sites on dry land and studies of geological history.

Finding some physical evidence beneath the waves of the ocean would be a major advance in proving that his theory is correct.
 

"We would need to find a submerged site, and excavate it underwater," Rose said, according to LiveScience. "This would likely only happen as the culmination of years of survey in carefully selected areas."

The waters of the Persian Gulf rose 8,000 years ago, perhaps because of the collapse of a huge glacial dam in http://www.aolnews.com/tag/canada - Canada , http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Massive+Canadian+melt+have+triggered+flood+biblical+proportions/3954124/story.html - according to Postmedia News.

This event caused water levels to rise across the world. This catastrophic event may have forced humans out of the Gulf basin and given rise to ancient stories such as that of Noah's Ark.

"Certainly, I think there is compelling evidence to suggest that both the flood and Eden myths may be rooted in these events around the Gulf basin," Rose said, according to Discovery News
 
 
 
http://www.aolnews.com/science/article/new-theory-points-to-submerged-civilization-in-middle-east/19756748 - http://www.aolnews.com/science/article/new-theory-points-to-submerged-civilization-in-middle-east/19756748
 
http://www.allempires.com/forum/new_topic_form.asp?FID=9 -  



Replies:
Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 13:48
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/12/500x_sunkencity.jpg -
Evidence is mounting that the first human civilization outside of Africa probably evolved in what is now the Persian Gulf. Recent discoveries suggest that we're about to find a fairly advanced civilization sunk beneath the waters of the Gulf.

Archaeologist Jeffrey Rose has published a paper in Current Anthropology where he argues that we'll find some of the earliest human civilizations on Earth in what was once a fertile basin fed by clear streams and lush with greenery.

According to Live Science:

The Gulf Oasis would have been a shallow inland basin exposed from about 75,000 years ago until 8,000 years ago, forming the southern tip of the Fertile Crescent, according to historical sea-level records.

And it would have been an ideal refuge from the harsh deserts surrounding it, with fresh water supplied by the Tigris, Euphrates, Karun and Wadi Baton Rivers, as well as by upwelling springs, Rose said. And during the last ice age when conditions were at their driest, this basin would've been at its largest.

Then, about 8,000 years ago, melting ice sheets eventually led to a wetter climate that flooded the Persian Gulf basin. That is also the time when we begin to find incredibly well-developed civilizations on the Gulf shoreline - civilizations that seem to have sprung fully-formed, with advanced seafaring technologies, out of nowhere. Unless, of course, they came from sunken cities hidden beneath the Gulf waters.

Live Science continues:

The most definitive evidence of these human camps in the Gulf comes from a new archaeological site called Jebel Faya 1 within the Gulf basin that was discovered four years ago. There, Hans-Peter Uerpmann of the University of Tubingen in Germany found three different Paleolithic settlements occurring from about 125,000 to 25,000 years ago. That and other archaeological sites, Rose said, indicate "that early human groups were living around the Gulf basin throughout the Late Pleistocene."

 
 
 
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/12/500x_sunkencity.jpg


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 13:49
 
 


Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 15:52
I have at least one migration map, indicating this region is the point of mass migrations.  Also I believe it was a Chinese scientist who said the Ice Age pushed humanity into a small area.  I forget where this area was.  I will look for verifying information as soon as possible. 


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 15:58

could this be atlantis??



Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 19:46
Perhaps some of you have even read my views about early man coming out from the depths of what later became "seas?"

But, perhaps not?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 07:13
This is extremely interesting! Could this be the origin of the Biblical flood myth?
 
It has been said that Eden was located somewhere in the Persian Gulf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Under_the_Persian_Gulf - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden#Under_the_Persian_Gulf
 
 


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 13:14
^ yes, that was what the article was saying, you live in Bahrain, go swim the in persian gulf and find the lost civilization lol


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 15:57
Bahrain, has been suspected of being the Genesis of the Garden of Eden myth for at least 50 years or so!

It is nothing new!

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 16-Feb-2011 at 23:49
Originally posted by opuslola

Bahrain, has been suspected of being the Genesis of the Garden of Eden myth for at least 50 years or so!

It is nothing new!
Wow, and I thought there was not much interesting history behind this little corner of the world! I have heard of that theory but didn't think much of it, but after these new findings I'm starting to change my mind!


Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: 25-Jan-2012 at 21:30
Interesting. Ive been reading a book, "Technology of the Gods The Incredible sciences of the Ancients". By David Hatcher Childress.It qoutes that for many years people have know of the ancient civilizations that once thrived in the mediterranean, such as the Osirian. And were very much real and did exist. To say that us as a species has such a short history, and that we developed only one course of major civilizations... well thats ridiculous, over time anythings possible. be logical. 


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S.O


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2012 at 18:42
Hello, all.  I just found this topic, very interesting indeed.   I have been collecting information about mining and trade routes in antiquity, I have noticed a correlation between megalithic sites and ancient economies.  I believe megalithic sites the world over served as navigation, storage for goods and housing for people, and as well defended corridors in the ancient mining and trade industries.  I think we too readily dismiss the tenacity and creativity of ancient civilizations and our forefathers. The neolithic and bronze ages were not so long ago on our entire historical timeline. I absolutely concur with Seth on this.  Some of the earliest trade activities are evident from over 70,000 years ago in Africa, beads and shells were traded throughout the continent.  Mining appears 40,000 years ago in Bulgaria and Swaziland in southern Africa.  I have some info collected at       https://sites.google.com/site/ancienttrenches/ancient-trade-routs - https://sites.google.com/site/ancienttrenches/ancient-trade-routs
please do have a read, nny further insights or more information would be greatly appreciated.  It is advert free and will remain that way, my only goal is to draw attention to the sophistication and technological advances in industry, trade, and defense as displayed by megalithic constructions.   


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2012 at 19:57
Originally posted by Drusin

Hello, all.  I just found this topic, very interesting indeed.   I have been collecting information about mining and trade routes in antiquity, I have noticed a correlation between megalithic sites and ancient economies.  I believe megalithic sites the world over served as navigation, storage for goods and housing for people, and as well defended corridors in the ancient mining and trade industries.  I think we too readily dismiss the tenacity and creativity of ancient civilizations and our forefathers. The neolithic and bronze ages were not so long ago on our entire historical timeline. I absolutely concur with Seth on this.  Some of the earliest trade activities are evident from over 70,000 years ago in Africa, beads and shells were traded throughout the continent.  Mining appears 40,000 years ago in Bulgaria and Swaziland in southern Africa.  I have some info collected at       https://sites.google.com/site/ancienttrenches/ancient-trade-routs - https://sites.google.com/site/ancienttrenches/ancient-trade-routs
please do have a read, nny further insights or more information would be greatly appreciated.  It is advert free and will remain that way, my only goal is to draw attention to the sophistication and technological advances in industry, trade, and defense as displayed by megalithic constructions.   


Not a bad website, but what's your take on this underwater civilisation? Personally i'm doubtful this is Atlantis as Classical sources describe it being on a round island


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2012 at 20:46
I think a lot of archaeological sites are submerged under water or modern cities.  The coast line has changed a few times in our past, it's been at both lower and higher levels than present.  As for Atlantis, I leave for others to have an opinion.  I think the story is still out there on that one. Atlantis and cities like it may well have existed in separate places and differing times, perhaps every region has had it's own Atlantis.


Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 15:51
This is very interesting and id like u to keep up on it, but Atlantis wasn't just a great city like many have come to believe but rather an entire civilization, an empire, it conquered a older Greece not known by the ancient Greeks we know of, far before, The Osirians. I mentioned them before, and they apparently rivaled Atlantis, these two of many other ancient civilizations were very powerful and set up colony's around the world and maybe even further into space then we did. Its all very  hard to take and many don't even consider, but without consideration for everything in every aspect there is no logical answer, think of it this way anything possibly imaginable  (in a logical sense) in history for the past 300,000 years or even far more, humans have been doing things and they had tv's and radio's and all the things today. Just a process that keeps replaying in different scenarios.

What can crush mountains, move seas, change everything, and is the most powerful thing ever?
"Time"

Over
time
anything
is
possible. So its already been. Get used to it.



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S.O


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 19:17
Originally posted by Seth

This is very interesting and id like u to keep up on it, but Atlantis wasn't just a great city like many have come to believe but rather an entire civilization, an empire, it conquered a older Greece not known by the ancient Greeks we know of, far before, The Osirians. I mentioned them before, and they apparently rivaled Atlantis, these two of many other ancient civilizations were very powerful and set up colony's around the world and maybe even further into space then we did. Its all very  hard to take and many don't even consider, but without consideration for everything in every aspect there is no logical answer, think of it this way anything possibly imaginable  (in a logical sense) in history for the past 300,000 years or even far more, humans have been doing things and they had tv's and radio's and all the things today. Just a process that keeps replaying in different scenarios.

What can crush mountains, move seas, change everything, and is the most powerful thing ever?
"Time"

Over
time
anything
is
possible. So its already been. Get used to it.


Do you know any more about the http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31071 - Osirian civilisation Seth? We started a topic on the subject and came to the conclusion they were purely mythical, being based on memories of ancient Egypt


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Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: oxydracae
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 06:53
Is there any connection between this topic and Dilmun ? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun )


Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 02:01
The funny thing is, is that the Osirian, where considered the gods of the Egyptians, the Egyptians simply went from cave dwellers and simple farmers to great inventors and strategist..? no time of development between... They must have been given the knowledge from a older civilization, greater than themselves. how could the great civilization like Egypt do this in such a short period? they just could not in such a short period... The legends of Rama Empire and Atlantis are all the same, greater beings, almost god like cause of technology, and used it to advantage.  Posing as Gods, but in reality much smaller weaker beings, like ourselves, just smarter. If America and other great country's went to war, nuclear war or chemical they'd wipe out the majority of the human population, leaving a new  planet to restart, it only takes a good 5000 years for metals to return to the earth, and much less for plastic or other materials, leaving no sign of a time before, 5000 years! very short in the history of our species existence, not recorded history, if we existed 1millon years ago or more wheres all the history... burned, ravaged and destroyed by so called "Great leaders", more like people hiding the truth. Once years ago, existed a book called "the history of man over the past hundred years" in the library of Alexandria, burned by fanatical Christians in the early century's AD, later anything else found of the book and other great knowledge's were used to heat Muslim baths. In china the great emperor who built the great wall burned all past knowledge in china, saying he was the first, a god... knowledge is power these leaders knew that and used it, later burning books so that no others learn the secret of our past times... and gain the knowledge which they used to gain power... look many of the things up i wrote and research it yourself.

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S.O


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 10:32

Most folks who are rabid "Atlantis fans get so wrapped up in the Island aspect, they neglect to pay attention to Plato's description of "The Ten Kingdoms".  You couldn't have ten kingdoms on an Island of the size described by Plato, nor could you have a very large flat plane, being some 100 miles across.

We have to think of the island as a trading outpost.  For the rest of it, look to South America.  The evidence of an older civ. is there.  Plato describes buildings composed of red and black stone. There are several sites on the South Amer. coast with ruins made from red and black stones.  To find the civilization that built the Island trading post known as Atlantis, look to S America, most of what your looking for is there.
 
BTW, quite a few folks believe that the burning of the Library of Alexandria is the main cause of the information gap that exist today.  Thus making it the most damaging act of vandalism known.
 
Also, some plastics have a life of some 20,000 years.  Right now it's estimated that approx. 40% of the beach sand found at the oceans edge is............plastics.  Source- New Jersey DEP.
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 10:56
Hello all, interesting post. I've just returned from New York where I caught the Nomads and Networks exhibit of artifacts found in Kazakhstan.  I  am in agreement here with red clay.  I think rather than looking at a city in particular we should focus on a global network of exchange in antiquities.  There are fat too many unexplained coincidences and anomalies other wise.  I have read also, red clay that some suggest north america was Atlantis and it did not sink but rather we lost contact.  BTW thanks for making me a member of the week.  I would have responded but was prowling about the antiquities halls at the metropolitan museum that week.  I'm about half way through with a new book entitled Across Atlantic Ice.  The book is informative though it is a bit dry.  The information is well worth the read all the same.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 11:02
I might include the Spanish destroying the native cultures, systematic destruction of information and out right theft with that category of the world's worst vandalism. Islamic destruction of hindu and buddist artifacts and information would definitely be on the top ten of that list for me too.  Even Pharaohs of Egypt scratched out older names to insert their own.  There are many reasons we have been so slow to piece history together again.


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 11:37
Yes, I've seen the articles linking N America with Atlantis, here there is an obvious lack of evidence.  And yes I'm aware that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  However in S. America the evidence is nearly everywhere.
Consider this, Russian scientists doing sea floor analysis in prep. for the Gibralter Bridge, discovered that the coasts of Spain and North Africa were aqbove the water line out about 600 miles from where they are now, around 10,000 bce.  The SA coast was 100 miles to the East of where it is now.  Throw that into the mix and a cross atlantic trip isn't so overwhelming.
 
Also, with 20 million sq miles of what was once dry land now submerged, there's no telling what's under it.


-------------
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 11:50
oh yah, I definitely include south america, sorry, I live is the US and we r known for egocentricity.  The Olmecs are utterly fascinating to me at so many levels.  They were obsidian mad also.
Just happened across this lovely article.
http://www.nature.com/news/satellites-expose-8-000-years-of-civilization-1.10257 - http://www.nature.com/news/satellites-expose-8-000-years-of-civilization-1.10257
 I have loads more on my face book page if you want to have a peek.  My real name is actually teresa drusin.


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 11:53
I don't know how many teresa drusins are out there but i am the half asian one with flaming fascia hair
 


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 11:56
yah sure of course they went by water. I still don't understand the reluctance of status quo in the face of so much evidence.  We were using bitumen, for goodness sake 40,000 years ago.  We could have made a mat of reeds water tight.  I do think we were actually building skin boats and wooden ships for much longer then we have thus far found evidence for 


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 13:46
Originally posted by Seth

The funny thing is, is that the Osirian, where considered the gods of the Egyptians, the Egyptians simply went from cave dwellers and simple farmers to great inventors and strategist..? no time of development between... They must have been given the knowledge from a older civilization, greater than themselves. how could the great civilization like Egypt do this in such a short period? they just could not in such a short period...
The Egyptians were influenced by the Sumerians - in the aspects of momumental architecture, the idea of writing /not their in chosen form, the hierogliphics/, Osiris and Isis /they being Dumizi and Inanna/ - there were plenty of Sumerian-like artefacts in the layers of Naqada II. I don't think we need Atlantis to explain the rise of the Egyptian civilization.


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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 13:51
Originally posted by Drusin

oh yah, I definitely include south america, sorry, I live is the US and we r known for egocentricity.  The Olmecs are utterly fascinating to me at so many levels.  They were obsidian mad also.
Just happened across this lovely article.
http://www.nature.com/news/satellites-expose-8-000-years-of-civilization-1.10257 - http://www.nature.com/news/satellites-expose-8-000-years-of-civilization-1.10257
 I have loads more on my face book page if you want to have a peek.  My real name is actually teresa drusin.
Very interesting article, thank youSmile.
 


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Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 16:35
Hi Don, Back from my trip.  Was a museum rat for a week, prowled about the antiquities halls  :) I'm looking forward to catching up on reading work from one of my new favorite poets.  I think it was perhaps the activities of ancient sumar an ur and other settlements like them that sent out exploratory mining crews in search of precious metals and resources.  I won't link these megalithic sites to anyone culture in particular. I think it was a technological advance in architecture that was adopted because of it usefulness.  Like agriculture it was a good idea   


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 17:47
It looks like you had a great and useful time, Drusin!Smile Being a selfish rat thought I'm glad we have you back. Are there some good net sites on which I can learn about the exhibition you got to see?

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Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 18:37
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/02/2012/nomads-and-networks-the-ancient-art-and-culture-of-kazakhstan - http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/02/2012/nomads-and-networks-the-ancient-art-and-culture-of-kazakhstan

Here's a link to the info about the exhibit. It really does highlight how sophisticated these nomads were.  There was plenty of gold and bronze, how they acquired this is surely a fascinating tale 


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 18:56
Thanks, Drusin! I had seen the golden deer /or at least a very similar one/ somewhere in NatGeo, a beautiful thing.

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Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2012 at 02:45
All this i agree with... and know... just didn't expect other smart wanderers of knowledge to pop out so easy... Great! :0  so i want to ask, why cant people believe theory's with evidence more influential/ more evidence to provide, then the idea most voting counts are actually fair? not fair... and even fixed... all the way back to the first days of democracy in ancient Greece... A system of suppressing the people of the truth and erasing them from the view of history... just like many and all government types that suppress the speaker of the small voice, write the history preferred by a leader little more than a 30 year old child, not a king, or president... lost in the problems they create themselves....????

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S.O


Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2012 at 02:47
Then lets get to the ancients we know of...

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S.O


Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2012 at 10:04
history is written by the victors, much of our current opinions are still based on research done in the last millennium, status quo is a barrier as funding for projects is at play here too. Yes I am happy to have made acquaintanceship with clever people who have solid ideas as well.  Which  ancients do you suggest?  The persian gulf was not always a gulf i suspect there is a great deal out there underwater.  I am facebook friends with a fella doing this type of research.  I find it fascinating the similarities of many of these cultures, it does seem to point to inter-regional trade of goods and ideas and even people.  The similarities of megalithic structures that span an enormous space and time also points to the transfer of ideas and technologies.  I know of a pakistan researcher who is in charge of re-erecting 6 sites he discovered.  He is on my facebook friends list.  my real name is teresa drusin and his is Zulfikar Ali Kalhoro if anyone wants to have a look at his resaerch.  These sites really cover the planet. 




Posted By: Drusin
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2012 at 10:22
I have been trying to muster support for this guy Zulfikar, i fear he is underfunded for the magnitude of the work he has ahead oh him.  Any suggestions on how we can help him out?


Posted By: Seth
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2012 at 02:19
You tube, as much as u can... but it will do little considering people wont randomly look it up, so make a following on Facebook about the research. And i am interested in the cultures that flourished around the gulf and all over the world and I'm pretty convinced they were interconnected... Example Rama Empire The Atlantis people and Orsirians. 

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S.O



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