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Kurds are German?

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28346
Printed Date: 23-Apr-2024 at 07:17
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Topic: Kurds are German?
Posted By: Messopotamian
Subject: Kurds are German?
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 10:29
Kurds are genetically german ? I read in internet.Hitler says " Kurds are Germanic "
 
Kurds have Blonde hair , blue eye



Replies:
Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 13:33
oooops i am kurd and  lookDisapprove more italian rather than germanShocked i don't like german food!!Confused
 i am not blond and have brown hair and brown eyes and i love pizza and spagettiBig smile. damned hitlerTongue he wasen't blond himsef he had darker hair than meShockedLOL


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 15:14
Both of you have good points! But, rather than using the term "German" would it not be more correct to use the term "Goth?" Certainly the origin of the so called "gothic" tribes both the Eastern and Western varieties offer enough leeway to consider that they at one time entered all of the areas you guys could consider!

Of course some of those other wild and crazy groups our historians have moving in and out of Europe and Asia, over the centuries might well also be the origin of a lot of you?

Regards,

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:48
No Kurds are not German, this is the first time I've ever heard this.  Kurds look mostly like other Iranians.  


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:58
if we change the direction like germans my have some median(kurdish-lorish) origin may sound more acceptable.
it is a known historical and even DNA fact that majority of european with IE origin have their  origin from migrating  IE tribes comming from asia like  greater iran , but saying kurds have a german origin sounds not realDisapprove hitler said a lot of lies like all populist politicians do. 
they are all the sameTongue. the young german nation needed  som glorious history they found  the lingustic simmilarity with iranian peoples like pers and medes with very rich historical and cultural heritage , then  they hi- jacked all mesopetamian and persian  history for using it for their racial theories and political propaganda.Wink hitler was very jalous of italians for their rich historical heritage and he wanted to show to mousoilini that germans had even better historical heritageLOL


Posted By: Sharrukin
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 20:40
Why would we even consider the words of one maniac who was not a historian, anthropologist, archaeologist or a geneticist? 
 
The only criteria he would have considered was the linguistic.  Kurds speak Iranic language/dialects.   Their languages are related to Persian.   I am reminded that the Nazis convinced the Persians to change the name of their country to Iran to accent their Aryan origin.  Hence, since he considered the Persians and Kurds as "Aryans" and since he considered the Germanics as "Aryans", presto, Kurds were Germanic!!! 


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 00:07
if hitler knew some thing about genetic , then he could never hated slavs as he didBig smile. actually slavic people in reality have much more iranian(aryan) y hg than germans do.
the highest% of R1a1 in europe is in belarussia and polen and among sorbs living  in germany Shocked  and not germans, which was the purest aryans according to himOuch and actually jews from polen maybe  have been more aryan than germansShocked


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 00:54
sharrukin
the name iran had existed in very long time before that time when iran officially changed name from persia to iran. 
in shahnameh which is one of most important cultural document in iran. 
 the word  IRAN ZAMIN . has always been used for actuall iran and there iranian tribes lived. maybe you are right about the motivation in 1920-1930 , but it wasen't invented in recent time, beeing iranian dosen't signify to being citizen of iran as country . it was a term used by nearly all iranian tribes in the past from afganistan to kavkaz!!in 1930 it become only name for iran as country.


Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 03:40
Originally posted by kalhur

oooops i am kurd and  lookDisapprove more italian rather than germanShocked i don't like german food!!Confused
 i am not blond and have brown hair and brown eyes and i love pizza and spagettiBig smile. damned hitlerTongue he wasen't blond himsef he had darker hair than meShockedLOL
 
Yes, but there are many Germans which look like Italians, and many Italians which look like Germans. If I`ll used football players for example (like ever before on this forum Wink) It`ll be something like that:
 
Francesco Totti
 
Michael Ballack
 


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 05:21
 i see !! now i understnd  why pizza and spagetuei are the most popular dishes in germany Wink and sauer kraut is so poular in italiaLOLthere is always a scientic Lampand logical explanation for evry thingWink


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 07:06
Like the name of "Cyrus" (Kurosh), "Aryan" is also one of forgotten Persian words, you can hardly find this word in the post-Islamic Persian texts before 19th century, I also doubt that anyone knew "Iran" and "Aryan" could be related words, of course I think Iranians knew that it meant "noble", for example Ferdosi in Shahnameh says "از ايرانم از تخم آزادگان" ("az Iran-am, az toxme azadegan" = I'm from Iran, from noble race).
 
It can be true to say Persia and Iran are also related, however Persians never called their country Persia but Persian-speaking people like Amir Khusrau Dehlavi in India or Nezami Ganjavi in north of modern Azerbaijan, have talked about Iran as their country, so Iran was certainly a country so much larger than modern Iran, I love this poem by Nezami Ganjavi:
 
همه عالم تنست و ايران دل
The whole word is a body and Iran is its heart
 


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Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 09:00
Cyrus Shahmiri, Iran is not the only country in the world which used form of ancient IE word "Arya" for it`s name. Irish called their country Eire and this coming from name of their legendary ancestors-the Erainn folk. Old Irish form of word Eire is Ériu.
 
http://celto-germanic.blogspot.com/2009/08/eire-and-aryan-connection.html - http://celto-germanic.blogspot.com/2009/08/eire-and-aryan-connection.html


Posted By: Emil_Diniyev
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 09:51
edit........


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 10:39
Originally posted by Kanas_Krumesis

Cyrus Shahmiri, Iran is not the only country in the world which used form of ancient IE word "Arya" for it`s name. Irish called their country Eire and this coming from name of their legendary ancestors-the Erainn folk. Old Irish form of word Eire is Ériu.
 
http://celto-germanic.blogspot.com/2009/08/eire-and-aryan-connection.html - http://celto-germanic.blogspot.com/2009/08/eire-and-aryan-connection.html
I believe the name of Arya/Aira mostly relate to Iranian-speaking people, for example you know that Ossetians also call themselves Iron, but about Irish people, according to this website: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Irish - http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Irish  Old Irish Eriu is from Old Celtic *Iveriu which means "good land", of course it is really possible that Érin (Ireland) and Éran (Pahlavi name of Iran) have the same origin.


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Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 10:51
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev

edit........


The name Eran was around long before that.  It first appeared during the Sassanids dynasty.

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/iranpersia/index.htm - http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/iranpersia/index.htm


First Use of the Name Iran

We find the first use of the name Eran as a name for the Aryan nation in the rock inscriptions of the Persian Sassanian kings (who ruled from 226 to 651 ACE). These inscription can still be seen at Naqsh-e-Rustam, a historical site containing royal tombs, and some 12 km northwest of the ancient Persian capital city of Persepolis in Pars. In the inscriptions, King Ardeshir I (226-241 ACE) is referred to as king of kings of Eran.

Ardeshir's son and successor King Shahpur (241-272 ACE) began to establish a second Persian empire and is referred to as king of kings of Eran and An-eran i.e. Aryan and non-Aryan kingdoms such as Syria, Cappadocia, and Cilicia. The words Eran-shahr meaning 'place of the Aryans' and a modern version of Airyana Vaeja, was also used by the Sassanians in describing the Iranian nation. These words would evolve to Iran-shahr.

The west continued to call Eran 'Persia', presumably out of habit and because the rulers were Persian, a tradition that continued until the reign of Reza Shah Pahlavi. In 1935 CE, Reza Shah asked those countries with whom Iran had diplomatic relations, to stop using the name Persia and formally refer to the country as Iran. Some map-makers and authors were slow to change and the name Persia continued to be used as an informal name in place of the more formal name, Iran.

Pars (Arabized as Fars - see below), the ancient seat of the Persian empire, was now a province within Iran. Pars was no longer used as the location of the country's capital. In the years following the Arab invasion of Iran, a 17th century CE king of the Safavid dynasty made his residence in the north-central Iranian town of Tehran. Later, in 1795 CE, the Qajar kings formally made Tehran Iran's capital, a position Tehran has held since then.


Plus the word Aryan was used by Iranians over 2,000 years ago.

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/darius/darius_inscription_naqshe_rostam.php - http://www.iranchamber.com/history/darius/darius_inscription_naqshe_rostam.php

I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage.   Darius The Great






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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 12:22
About the topic, you can look at one of the longest threads in AE: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24637 - Is Germanic a subgroup of the Iranian languages?
 
There was an original Indo-European language, this language was spread to a vast region in Asia and Europe and for some reasons some sound changes occurred, these changes could happen gradually, for example if we compare Old, Middle and Modern Persian languages then we can see that "th" sound has been changed to "h" and there is already no "th" sound in Modern Persian, Mithra -> Mihr, Spithra -> Sepehr (Sphere), Xshathra -> Shahr (city), ...
 
We can ask that is "G" or "J" sound in the word "German"? In Greek gyne means "woman" but in Kurdish that is jin/zjin, in Persian zan and Slavic zena but in Germanic that is kwen/ken (English queen), so like several other words, "g" has been changed to "k" in the Germanic languages, but does "ken" mean "woman" in the Iranian languages too? What is the origin of Persian kaniz or Kurdish kenishk?


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Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 12:53
 ravanshad ferdosi tusi the greatest of all iranian poets used the term iran-zamin almost 1000 years ago, then iran was the name of the coutry or countries there iranian lived, nothing invented for pleasing europeansTongue


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 13:02
Sultan-Mahmud-Ghaznawi.jpgsultan mahmmod ghaznavi  son of spuk-tekin was proud of
his iranian origin , despite he was turk. he proclaimed himself off spring of YAZDGERD the last sasanid king and loved the dari(farsi) language tooBig smile as i said before the turks were so mixed with iranians that for 1000 years ago their king called himslef iranian not turanianBig smile 


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 13:54
Originally posted by kalhur

 ravanshad ferdosi tusi the greatest of all iranian poets used the term iran-zamin almost 1000 years ago, then iran was the name of the country or countries there iranian lived, nothing invented for pleasing europeansTongue


Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 14:52
Originally posted by Messopotamian

Kurds are genetically german ? I read in internet.Hitler says " Kurds are Germanic "
 

Kurds have Blonde hair , blue eye


Now I am confused! so am I 1/4 German or Kurd???

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 15:05
Eaglecap! Do you give any weight to my contention that it might well be the so called "Goths" that made the connection, rather than the later Germanic's? After all, the very meaning of "german" is the same as "germain!", or "related!"

It seems that we, as outsiders, are not really considered as someone to respond too? chuckle!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 17:00
tobe honest with you i am  swedish and kurd Thumbs Up but noway  not german.
 Hitler was wrong againOuch the kurd are swedish and not germanLOL.the germans were turksSmile if you don't beleive me walk in any major german city and listen to the people  and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrongBig smile the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!
jag är svensk och inte tyskWink jag talar svenska och inte tyska. 
you see kurds speak swedisn and not germanBig smile


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 17:44
But, kalhur, do you speak or know Gothic?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 18:03
Dear opuslola
 i am speaking swedish  with every member of my family , my wife my children and even grandchildren too, but the grand children are living in uk  they understand , but do not speak swedish they speak another form of  germanic language called anglo-saxon. Unhappy  
one of them  has light brown hair and hazel eyes and the other one has big clear blue eyes and middle blond hair very typical scandinavianShocked. you see kurds are swedes  they may look like germans but they are not germanSmile HITLER WAS WRONG

have you ever heared this famous swedish folklore song:
små grodorna små grodorna  de är lustiga att se!
ej öron ej öron ej svansar hava de
 mais voila.
kurds are swedes and not germansSmile


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 18:20
My dear kalhur, perhaps we are speaking about the same thing without actually connecting?

Therefor, I do not really know if I am to feel insulted or pattied upon my back? Laugh!

So, do you consider Goth or Gothic speech, etc., to be related to Swedish (Gothland?) or German?, or both?

As you well know, our currently accepted history seems to run the Goths back and forth across Europe and parts of Asia, and as they seemingly wound up they were also Arians! And the end of the Arians is another part of history that is somewhat confused!

So, I just wanted to make sure your family in England had not eaten their; "Kurds with their whey??" Laugh! And a smile!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 18:32
joking aside 
sweden was built by two people  goths in south and svea in the northen part.sweden is called  SVERIGE which means (SVEA-RIKE) because the svea become the more dominant. the old norse language was even much more near to the old english, but the language spoken in sweden today is very different than old swedish. sorry i know very little about the german history, but swedn is built by goths and svea s


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 18:43
Sso, did the Goths become German? Again note that for all real purposes this word really describes or described family relationships, and thus German / Germain / cousin / I.e., relative by marriage, etc.!

Thus the Gotts / Goats / Geats / etc., which I assume were the same peoples?, moved South into what is today Denmark and Germany or Saxon territory at one time or another?

Thus, Low (North) Germanic or Dutch, became early English? Or as some call it "Anglo-Saxon!", at least later!

Do, you agree with the above?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2010 at 18:56
frankly i am not scholar in history my profession is blacksmith(tool making technician) i can not answer to your question. all i know is sweden  is build by two germanic tribes svea and gothes.
 there are two provinces in southern sweden one called västra götaland and another in the east  called östra götaland east götsland, then there is an island called gotland too in baltic sea, i hopeit will help you. one other thing is a strange similarity between swedish and persian languge, for exemple
i say in persian
name doxtare e man shirin ast.
in my kurdish dialect
nawe duti men shirin e
in swedish
min dotters namn är shirin
in english
my daghter's name is shirin.
when you see this kind of lingustic similarity you understand  the roots of speculation about  origin of kurds and iranians in generalShocked


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 04:07
kurds are victimes of racism in many countries, 
in turkey:
despite their heroic participation in war against russian and english occupation army . what they got from turks was banning their language ! thank lord now the turkish gov has changed policy and even kurds existsShockedand even recently they got a tv in kurdish, thanks god in heaven!
in iraq it was the same despite all the promisses given by baath party of autonomy and civil rights all had ended to deception and  racial discrimination.
in iraq kurd has been killed in thousends by chemical warfare when the "heroic" racist  arabic ationalist baath army had no success in the battles on the ground, then it was allowed to use the chemical weapon on civilansAngry. and it is a fact and ducumented too.
in syria kurds are living inside villages with barbedwire around themUnhappythey are suspected to be JEWS and  SIONISTLOLooops what happened to that german origin of kurdsShocked
in iran they are as "fairly " traited as the rest of populationBig smile by the GOVWink and the fact that majority of kurds in iran are sunni  muslims  . it make that "fair" traitment even more " fair"LOL, but due to belonging to the same race and culture as other iranian groups at least persian population and other iranian groups  in genaral do not concider kurds as forigners .!!
then claiming that kurds are german is some time used to divert attention from this bitter and sad truthUnhappy.there are thousends and thousends of feyli kurds living in refugi camps under tents in years and years despite the war between iran and iraq had ended for a long times ago under the worst unhuman conditions Cry with no schools ,no health care and a gerneration of kurds with  no hope for future ! where is UN???
 unfortunately this claim has been used  for making kurds a part of genocid of jews in europe which was done by european themselves and not kurds.
indeed there is kurdish jew minority which has lived among kurds and thrived and many of them has emigrated to isreal and they love their kurdish origin and they celebrate NAWROOZ like the  other kurds and still speaking kurdish.
no doubt there is racial connection between all IE groups germanic or slav they share the same indoeuropean origin . kurds have same racial connection with slavs as germans
many words in slavic languages are nearly the same in iranian languages too.
 like jeen= jen =woman in slavic language and numbers are nearly the same in polish and kurdish..
and yes no doubt about it that kurds are of indoeuropean origin like pers and tajik , baloch, afghan,. german.slavs. name it,


Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 14:02
Originally posted by kalhur

tobe honest with you i am  swedish and kurd Thumbs Up but noway  not german.
 Hitler was wrong againOuch the kurd are swedish and not germanLOL.the germans were turksSmile if you don't beleive me walk in any major german city and listen to the people  and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrongBig smile the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!
jag är svensk och inte tyskWink jag talar svenska och inte tyska. 
you see kurds speak swedisn and not germanBig smile


I am sorry but the German and Turkic tribes had little connection but possibly Attila the Hun, very limited. Whereas, the early migration of what we call Teutonic or Germanic tribes originated from present day Scandinavia, mainly present day Sweden and Norway. The Goths did migrate and settle north of the Black Sea and that is a possibility. There was a documentary I saw about the Gothic tribes and their origins and also "The Barbarians Speak" is another good source.

I saw another documentary about a remote Village in Switzerland. The infants have a blue spot on their rear, at birth, just like infants from Mongolia. It is believed they are descendants of deserters from Atilla the Hun's army, after they were defeated by the Romans. They settled in the mountains and took on Teutonic wives.   The Swedes and Kurds being more closely related than Germans is silly and only amounts to ethnic boasting. Any connection between the two would have come later in modern history, with the exception of possibly the Goths. Both Germans, Swedes, Norwegians are considered Teutonic, whereas, the Kurds are not. I am a Greek, German, Scotch-Irish and other mix myself.


Hitler was very narcissistic and evil so why even bring him up.

listen to the people and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrong the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!

The Germans tribes were conidered Indo European, and from all I know Kurdish is not a Indo European speaking language. It is possibly the words sound similar because of contact with tribes, such as, the Goths or other Indo-European speaking tribes.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 15:15
sir 
as i said before i am not historien scholar and  just a simple  blacksmith,but i have read almost in every book that kurdish languages and generally iranic languages are IE languages.
you have mentioned about teutonic race !! isen't that something to do with titans(ancient greek gods),
isen't that possible that germans are not indoeuropean because IE people are comming originally from asia , because they were  TITANS and when they ascend on earthWink they may  took an IE languageQuestion
there is a swedish man claiming being prophet and says : he has actually been contacted by ET  landing in his yard while he was sitting and producing a kind of swedish masterwork of art called DALAHÄST!!
he says he saw an espaceship landing and from the ship a man came out with hairs  blond  shimmering like gold and told him things about mankind's future and he was a TITANWacko- that titan has told him that germans were titans and they only speak an  IE  languageShocked
what is your opinion sir?


Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 16:13
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by kalhur

tobe honest with you i am  swedish and kurd Thumbs Up but noway  not german.
 Hitler was wrong againOuch the kurd are swedish and not germanLOL.the germans were turksSmile if you don't beleive me walk in any major german city and listen to the people  and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrongBig smile the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!
jag är svensk och inte tyskWink jag talar svenska och inte tyska. 
you see kurds speak swedisn and not germanBig smile


I am sorry but the German and Turkic tribes had little connection but possibly Attila the Hun, very limited. Whereas, the early migration of what we call Teutonic or Germanic tribes originated from present day Scandinavia, mainly present day Sweden and Norway. The Goths did migrate and settle north of the Black Sea and that is a possibility. There was a documentary I saw about the Gothic tribes and their origins and also "The Barbarians Speak" is another good source.

I saw another documentary about a remote Village in Switzerland. The infants have a blue spot on their rear, at birth, just like infants from Mongolia. It is believed they are descendants of deserters from Atilla the Hun's army, after they were defeated by the Romans. They settled in the mountains and took on Teutonic wives.   The Swedes and Kurds being more closely related than Germans is silly and only amounts to ethnic boasting. Any connection between the two would have come later in modern history, with the exception of possibly the Goths. Both Germans, Swedes, Norwegians are considered Teutonic, whereas, the Kurds are not. I am a Greek, German, Scotch-Irish and other mix myself.


Hitler was very narcissistic and evil so why even bring him up.

listen to the people and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrong the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!

The Germans tribes were conidered Indo European, and from all I know Kurdish is not a Indo European speaking language. It is possibly the words sound similar because of contact with tribes, such as, the Goths or other Indo-European speaking tribes.


Kurdish is a Indo-European languages, i'ts under Iranian branch which is under the Indo-Iranian branch.

Example, this only a few I know.

Dar = Door
Nu = New
Ster = Star
Birow = Eyebrow
Sherm - Shame
Min - My/Mine
Nav/Nam = Name


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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 16:30
Originally posted by Ince


Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by kalhur

tobe honest with you i am  swedish and kurd Thumbs Up but noway  not german.
 Hitler was wrong againOuch the kurd are swedish and not germanLOL.the germans were turksSmile if you don't beleive me walk in any major german city and listen to the people  and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrongBig smile the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!
jag är svensk och inte tyskWink jag talar svenska och inte tyska. 
you see kurds speak swedisn and not germanBig smile


I am sorry but the German and Turkic tribes had little connection but possibly Attila the Hun, very limited. Whereas, the early migration of what we call Teutonic or Germanic tribes originated from present day Scandinavia, mainly present day Sweden and Norway. The Goths did migrate and settle north of the Black Sea and that is a possibility. There was a documentary I saw about the Gothic tribes and their origins and also "The Barbarians Speak" is another good source.

I saw another documentary about a remote Village in Switzerland. The infants have a blue spot on their rear, at birth, just like infants from Mongolia. It is believed they are descendants of deserters from Atilla the Hun's army, after they were defeated by the Romans. They settled in the mountains and took on Teutonic wives.   The Swedes and Kurds being more closely related than Germans is silly and only amounts to ethnic boasting. Any connection between the two would have come later in modern history, with the exception of possibly the Goths. Both Germans, Swedes, Norwegians are considered Teutonic, whereas, the Kurds are not. I am a Greek, German, Scotch-Irish and other mix myself.


Hitler was very narcissistic and evil so why even bring him up.

listen to the people and see which language they speak and you can see i am right and hitler was wrong the kurd are västgötar and living in västragötaland!!

The Germans tribes were conidered Indo European, and from all I know Kurdish is not a Indo European speaking language. It is possibly the words sound similar because of contact with tribes, such as, the Goths or other Indo-European speaking tribes.
Kurdish is a Indo-European languages, i'ts under Iranian branch which is under the Indo-Iranian branch. Example, this only a few I know. Dar = DoorNu = NewSter = StarBirow = EyebrowSherm - ShameMin - My/MineNav/Nam = Name


I have a few books on Indo European theory and I will check this out but thank you. If they are related then the only connection Germanic tribes would have had goes back thousands of years. Are there similar sounding words in: Greek, Italic, Slavic etc? I would suspect so!
If you go back far enough we are all related whether you believe in Lucy or Adam and Eve.

ET and UFO's
I won't comment on that but feel free to your opinion.

-------------
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε


Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 16:35
Originally posted by kalhur

sir 
as i said before i am not historien scholar and  just a simple  blacksmith,but i have read almost in every book that kurdish languages and generally iranic languages are IE languages.
you have mentioned about teutonic race !! isen't that something to do with titans(ancient greek gods),
isen't that possible that germans are not indoeuropean because IE people are comming originally from asia , because they were  TITANS and when they ascend on earthWink they may  took an IE languageQuestion
there is a swedish man claiming being prophet and says : he has actually been contacted by ET  landing in his yard while he was sitting and producing a kind of swedish masterwork of art called DALAHÄST!!
he says he saw an espaceship landing and from the ship a man came out with hairs  blond  shimmering like gold and told him things about mankind's future and he was a TITANWacko- that titan has told him that germans were titans and they only speak an  IE  languageShocked
what is your opinion sir?


Well, even a black smith can be well read and it is good you seek knowledge. I have a Masters in history: pre Greek and Greek. I am really not sure about the Titans but I have heard theories but that would make another thread and really has little to do with the German tribes. I know the Romans were amazed by their stature and probably thought they were like Titans- LOL

-------------
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 17:06
 i agree with you roman were wrong they even did  blasphemy!!by calling german tribes barbariansShocked
anyway roman  diden't know that germans were actually the real  titans and not romans themselves being TITANOuch anyway it was long before  that spaceship landed in the swedishman's yardWink we shall forgive them they were ignorents at ancient timeLOL
yes indeed in persian language there are many words with latin origin  too.as i am french speaking kurdish - swedish black smithSmile  i have observed many latin words in persian-kurdish tooShocked
well if the germans had not  contact with  iranian people , i am sure that greeks and iranians had very warm cultural and racial contactWink indeed persian burn down athen and the greeks burn down persopolisStern Smile it could be concidered very hot cultural exchange and  contactLOL and even  poor alexander  against his will Disapprovewas conquered by ROXANA (oh jees she was really HOT with black skinWink and afro hair dress in the holywood movie)Big smile, it seems persian and greeks had a lot of racial cuddling contact with each other too at ancient times. even safo wrote some nice poems about persian soldiers tooWink   


Posted By: Sharrukin
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 17:30
There is no historical linkage between Germanics and Kurds.
 
The closest would have been when the Goths gained hegemony in Sarmatia and Dacia beginning about AD 200.  The groups in the Ukraine were called Greuthungi (later called "Ostrogoths") and the Dacian Goths were called Tervingi (later called "Visigoths").   By the 230's they were raiding across the Black Sea, and the Danube, but these were just raids.  They went back to their north  and west Pontic abodes and remained until the Huns caused the Alans to push them out in the 370's.  Where did they go?  Into the Balkans and then further west.
 
Any linguistic comparisons should be viewed in terms of a general Indo-European background.  Just bare in mind that if one does make comparisons between Germanic and Kurdish (and other Indo-Iranian) languages the same must also apply to other IE languages, (i.e. Romance, Celtic, etc.).  If this is ignored, then, either "All Europeans are Kurds/Iranians" or "All Kurds/Iranians are Europeans" or something to that effect.
 
'Nuff sed


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 17:42


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 18:44
kurdish people are first of all not of any pure race . we are mix of medians and many other ancient population like elamite, sumerian, persian, parthian and  many more.
 we have not a direct linage to any german tribes.
there are a great amount of people with rather fair hair and sometime green or blue eyes among the vilagers or people in country side, but it could be even of old linages before  IE imigration.
there is a people called kalasha in pakistan with very light skin and blue eyes and despite many speculations, it has beem proved that they have no genetic contact with  europeans,. indeed they have been isolated for thousendes of years before IE arival to india!!! they have very high amount of Y HG  L(33%) and K(20+) and some R1a1 indo-aryan marker.
 then having fair hair and white skin not really prov of german linage too.
 i don't know why such an assumption has ever  been made.
 as a kurd i am proud of being kurd and not german nor a titan from another planetLOL 
we are speaking an IE language and naturally there are similarity between all of IE languages,- here are picture of kalasha girlsclick to zoom



Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 00:04

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Any linguistic comparisons should be viewed in terms of a general Indo-European background.  Just bare in mind that if one does make comparisons between Germanic and Kurdish (and other Indo-Iranian) languages the same must also apply to other IE languages, (i.e. Romance, Celtic, etc.).  If this is ignored, then, either "All Europeans are Kurds/Iranians" or "All Kurds/Iranians are Europeans" or something to that effect.

I don't agree, you should prove all Indo-Europeans call their god "Goda/Khoda" and their king "Kianig", as Kurdish and Germanic people do, I don't know why we should ignore a huge similarity just because a general Indo-European background!
Romance, Celtic and other Indo-European people never celebrated Yuletide/Yalda, in their language shire/shar didn't mean "county" and they didn't use it as a suffix for their counties/cities, those who have researched about Germanic and Iranain mythical beliefs, have found several similar or almost the same things, like "Great Winter" (Fimbulvetr), which can not be found in other Indo-European mythical beliefs.



-------------


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 01:48
 
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Any linguistic comparisons should be viewed in terms of a general Indo-European background.  Just bare in mind that if one does make comparisons between Germanic and Kurdish (and other Indo-Iranian) languages the same must also apply to other IE languages, (i.e. Romance, Celtic, etc.).  If this is ignored, then, either "All Europeans are Kurds/Iranians" or "All Kurds/Iranians are Europeans" or something to that effect.

I don't agree, you should prove all Indo-Europeans call their god "Goda/Khoda" and their king "Kianig", as Kurdish and Germanic people do, I don't know why we should ignore a huge similarity just because a general Indo-European background!
Romance, Celtic and other Indo-European people never celebrated Yuletide/Yalda, in their language shire/shar didn't mean "county" and they didn't use it as a suffix for their counties/cities, those who have researched about Germanic and Iranain mythical beliefs, have found that several similar or almost the same things, like "Great Winter" (Fimbulvetr), can not be found in other Indo-European mythical beliefs.

dear friends
as i have understood history is more than often tied to political situation, rather than facts.Tongue
the rich nordeurope don't want to be related to poor india and they are no longer IEWink
actually the nord european want to be related to titans rather than punjabi people in india and other asian population like persian or even worst the poor kurdsLOL
but now india is growing in wealth (they have one of highest growth in BNP in the world) maybe when they become a very wealthy nation and  finacial strong and huge market again NE people shall come back on the earth and forget  their TITANICBig smile origin from planet GANJALOL
ln this game everything is negociableWink if you read german books dated 1930s even SLAVS were not concidered as IE , they were conicdered as worst scum on the earthShocked no way concidering slavic people as aryans at those old good!! daysLOL despite the obvious  relation between slavic languages and the other IE languages!!!
by the way now CHINA is growing in wealth and becoming a financial super power!!
isen't that good time to make them ARYAN too?after all we are all human and IE were originally from asia. 


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 08:19
mais voila : the truthWink written on an european website!Smile
We did not come from Africa like modern science suggests. But all The nazis The nazis have stressed this, and so have many historians. Not all humans came from the same breeding grounds. We did not come from Africa like modern science suggests. But all the white people today are descendendants from the Atlanteans. And http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread201869/pg1# -
i believe in WALT DISNEYBig smile
we kurds are not from atlantisGeek we are from ZAGROS mountainOuch
now we all knowing that white aryan has nothing to do with those morcky guys  like us from asiaWink
it is my theori why the persian and swedish language are so similar:
the similarity between swedish and persian language is very easy to explain:
at the time when atlantis was submerging in the sea, there were a few ilegal iranian cod-fishing boats   sailing  and fishing ilegally as those guys usually do Big smilearound that island(atlantis) and they managed to rescue those first  atlantis ARYANS and the first white aryan were forced to live on board those persian smuggler's  boats in mounth or years  waiting for visum to denmark and sweden(THE FIRST ARYAN BOAT REFUGIESWink) and they did learn to speak a kind of language which is very near to persianLOL
SIRES
any objections? to my briliant theori about languages??


Posted By: Sharrukin
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 11:51

Originally posted by Sharrukin

Any linguistic comparisons should be viewed in terms of a general Indo-European background.  Just bare in mind that if one does make comparisons between Germanic and Kurdish (and other Indo-Iranian) languages the same must also apply to other IE languages, (i.e. Romance, Celtic, etc.).  If this is ignored, then, either "All Europeans are Kurds/Iranians" or "All Kurds/Iranians are Europeans" or something to that effect.

I don't agree, you should prove all Indo-Europeans call their god "Goda/Khoda" and their king "Kianig", as Kurdish and Germanic people do, I don't know why we should ignore a huge similarity just because a general Indo-European background!
Romance, Celtic and other Indo-European people never celebrated Yuletide/Yalda, in their language shire/shar didn't mean "county" and they didn't use it as a suffix for their counties/cities, those who have researched about Germanic and Iranain mythical beliefs, have found several similar or almost the same things, like "Great Winter" (Fimbulvetr), which can not be found in other Indo-European mythical beliefs.

There are alternative etymologies for these words, Cyrus, (for instance, yuletide comes from yule and -tide - yule being an old Germanic feast called jol "jolly" and -tide from tid meaning "time") but yes, there probably were certain things that link Germanics with Iranics.  As we know, Germanic tribes were at one time neighbors to Iranic ones (i.e. Sarmatians).  Some of these concepts may even have been transmitted to the Germanics by Zoroastrian-believing nomadic tribes, since the Avesta does state that Zoroaster's doctrine was preached among these tribes.  It then comes to reason that cultural exchange occurred.  This does not mean that the one people came from the other, or visa versa.  This is the simplest solution, but now we are off-topic.


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 12:41

I think the problem is about the Iranian origin, it is said Kurds, Persians, Gilakis, ... are Iranian-speaking people, how can we define an Iranian language? For example we know there was no "L" sound in the Old Persian and Avestan languages but there are thousands words in the Middle/Modern Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages with this sound, what are the origins of these words?

Linguists talk about Centum and Satem langauges, and some sound changes, like C(K)->S & L->R, there are some Kurdish members here, I want to ask them what the Kurdish word for "head" is? That is "Kelle" or "Ser"? Our Persian members certainly know what "Kulah" means in Persian, similar to Kurdish Kelle, there are Persian Kalle, Gilaki Kalla, ...
 
Proto-Germanic: *kulla-z, *kull=

Meaning: head, head-like object

Old Norse: koll-r m. `runder Gipfel; Kopf, Schädel'

Old English: { coll `heuvel, hoogte' }

Middle Dutch: col, colle; (Kiliaen) kolle-bloeme `anemoon'

Dutch: kol m. `wite vlek op het voorhoofd', dial. `voorhofd'

Middle Low German: kol, kolle `Kopf, oberster Teil von Pflanzen'
 
And
 
Slavic: *golva
 
Baltic: *galva
 
Hittite: harsar

Tokharian: krāñi 'nape of the neck' (Adams 214)

Old Indian: śíraḥ n. (nom., acc. ) `head, skull', gen. śīrṣṇáḥ, abl. śīrṣatáḥ; śīrṣá- n. `head, upper part'

Avestan: sarah- n. 'Kopf'

Armenian: sar `Höhe, Gipfel, Abhang'

Old Greek: kárǟ n.

Latin: cerebrum, -ī `Gehirn', cervīx, -īcis f. `Nacken, Genick'

Celtic: Bret kern `Scheitel, Wirbel des Kopfes'


-------------


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 14:57
Cyrus
the amount of simmilar words in persian and scandinavian language is so much and it is not limited in those few words above. many basic words  like body parts,housing, animals both domestical and savage are nearly the same,
but if the great WALT DISNEY said that germans are originating from ATLANTIS, then we should accept it.

 as a Body parts

 

Persian                             swedish                                        english

Lab                                   lep                                                lip

Bosse                                pusa                                              kiss

Abroo                                ogonbrun                                    eyebrow

Kale                                   skalle                                            skull

Dandan                               tand                                              dent

Chane                                  hache                                          chin

Naf                                      navel                                             belly button

 

Objects

 Dar                                     dor                                                  door

Hasar                                   hus                                                 house

Tagh                                    tak                                                    roof

Gaw                                     ko                                                     cow

Band (nakh)                      band(rep)                                                

Goraz                                gris                                                    porc boar

Ghaz                                  gås                                                    goose

 Nam                                 namn                                                 name

Mard(mand)                      man                                                    man 

Bradar                               bror                                                    brother

Dokhtar                             dotter                                                 daughter

Pedar                                 fader                                                   father

Madar                                moder                                                 mother

Astar (asb)                         häst                                                     horse

Stabl                                   stall                                                     stable

Famil                                  familj                                                  family

Rah                                      väg                                                     road

Rast                                      rätt                                                     right

Mah (mang)                              mån                                                   moon

Setare                                   stjärna                                                star

Div                                       djävul                                                devel

Behatr                                  bättre                                                 better

Tandar(raad)                       åska(dunder)                                      thunder

Pari                                      älv                                                     fairy

Robah(rewi=kurdish)             räv                                                      fox

gorg(werg =kurdish)               varg                                                     wolf 

Bordan                               bära                                                    bearing

Mess(metal)                     messing(copper alloy)                           copper

Ahen                                järn                                                       iron

Moosh                             mus                                                       mouse

Mian                               mellan                                                   between

Mor(morche)                  myra                                                      ant

Gerd(jerd)  (settelement)    gård                                                       yard

borj                                          borg

and more and more



 

 

 

 

 

                                               



Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 15:34
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think the problem is about the Iranian origin, it is said Kurds, Persians, Gilakis, ... are Iranian-speaking people, how can we define an Iranian language? For example we know there was no "L" sound in the Old Persian and Avestan languages but there are thousands words in the Middle/Modern Persian, Kurdish and other Iranian languages with this sound, what are the origins of these words?

Linguists talk about Centum and Satem langauges, and some sound changes, like C(K)->S & L->R, there are some Kurdish members here, I want to ask them what the Kurdish word for "head" is? That is "Kelle" or "Ser"? Our Persian members certainly know what "Kulah" means in Persian, similar to Kurdish Kelle, there are Persian Kalle, Gilaki Kalla, ...
 
Proto-Germanic: *kulla-z, *kull=

Meaning: head, head-like object

Old Norse: koll-r m. `runder Gipfel; Kopf, Schädel'

Old English: { coll `heuvel, hoogte' }

Middle Dutch: col, colle; (Kiliaen) kolle-bloeme `anemoon'

Dutch: kol m. `wite vlek op het voorhoofd', dial. `voorhofd'

Middle Low German: kol, kolle `Kopf, oberster Teil von Pflanzen'
 
And
 
Slavic: *golva
 
Baltic: *galva
 
Hittite: harsar

Tokharian: krāñi 'nape of the neck' (Adams 214)

Old Indian: śíraḥ n. (nom., acc. ) `head, skull', gen. śīrṣṇáḥ, abl. śīrṣatáḥ; śīrṣá- n. `head, upper part'

Avestan: sarah- n. 'Kopf'

Armenian: sar `Höhe, Gipfel, Abhang'

Old Greek: kárǟ n.

Latin: cerebrum, -ī `Gehirn', cervīx, -īcis f. `Nacken, Genick'

Celtic: Bret kern `Scheitel, Wirbel des Kopfes'


In all Kurdish dialects "Head" is "Ser"

Heres some more words, that you might be interested in.  Notice how close Kurmanci is to Persian, even tho it is classed as NW dialect.  Some people classify it as SW, but others say it is just about NW and nearly in between, SW and NW.   Also Zaza seems to be close to Avestan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
*wvvb / gb / g
-
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w eh1-nt- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ātā- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ā http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ād http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ā
wind
*a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w er- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ār- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ārān http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ārān http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ārān
rain
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w ekʷ- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v āč http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ācāvāz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ēj
sing, say
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w eg'h http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v azaiti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v āz- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ez- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ez-
run
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w ek- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v āč http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ang, dang
voice
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w adh- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v eyv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ayo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b uk
bride, wedding
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w eren-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v arek http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b arre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b arx
sheep
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w ̯ep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v efr- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v awr, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b arf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b efr
snow
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w en- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v eēn- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ēn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v īn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b īn- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b īn-
see
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w īk'm̥tī http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v īsaitī http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v īst http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ist
twenty
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w idhewo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v īthava http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v īyā http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b īve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b ī
widow
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w ei- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v aeiti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v iyāl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b id http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b i
willow
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w es- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v āstra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v āš http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g iyāh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g iyā
grass
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w rdho- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ard- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v il http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g ul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g ul
rose
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w l̥kʷo- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v ēhrke- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v arg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g urg
wolf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
*k/*gz/sz/sz/sd/h
-
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k 'erd- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z erdeye- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z erridil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d il
heart
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'hol- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z aranya- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z erd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z êrzar
gold
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'no- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z an- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z an- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z an- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d ān-
know
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'eme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z amat- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z ama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z ava http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d āmād
groom
*e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'ome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z ēme http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z (min)e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d - (man)
I
*bhr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'hbere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z antber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z bilindbolan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d
borough, high
*de http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k 'da http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S - s ade http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S - s dehda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H - h
ten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
*gw / *kwj / čĵzž
-
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w en- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J - j ainiš http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ eni http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž ın
woman
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - wh en- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J - j an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ in- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z an- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž en-
playing music, to beat
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w iwo- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J - j iv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ iwiyayıš http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z īstan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž ıyan
live
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w iwo- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J - j iv http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ inde http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z endezındi (loan)
alive
*se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w -uperha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8C - č a-upairi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z abar- (bala) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž or
up
*se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w -ndhero-ha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8C - č a-athara http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ êr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z īr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž êr
down
*se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w -ha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8C - č a- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ ia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž i
from
*leu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k -reo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8C - č ah -ro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z ro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž
day
*we http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w -va http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8C - č -va http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ āvā http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž
say, sing
*pe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K - k http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w -pa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8C - č -pew http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B4 - ĵ -paz- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BD - ž
cook

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
ddbdd
-
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dh - dh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w er- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dv - dv ara http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B - b er http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d ar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d eri
door

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
trθrhrss
-
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr - tr ejes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%98 - θ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hr - hr i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S - s e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S - s e (loan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki_language#cite_note-A._Korn-9 - [10]
three
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tr - tr ikomt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%98 - θ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r isaiti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hr - hr is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S - s i http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S - s i (loan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki_language#cite_note-A._Korn-9 - [10]
thirty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
*rg,*lg / *rdrz / rdrz / rrll
-
*bhr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'hbe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z antbe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z bo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l andbi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l ind
borough, high
-he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z -e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z hi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l -he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l
sprinkle, throw
--wu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l iza http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l ez
dash off, stand up, fly
*sp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G - g 'h-spē http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r ē http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z anse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r pe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z - z seporzsıpı http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l
spleen
-se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D - d -, ya http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r ese http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - re http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l sa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l
year
*k'e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rd - rd -ze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rd - rd -ze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R - r edi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l di http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l
heart
*w http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rd - rd ho-ve http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rd - rd -lgu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l gu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L - l
rose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
*swxvwx(u)x(w)
-
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sw - sw ep- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v efne- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w itiš http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w āb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x ew
sleep
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v eš- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w
sweet
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sw - sw enh- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v en- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w end- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x ānd- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w end-
read
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sw - sw esor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v eher http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x āhar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w eh
sister
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v er- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w erd- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x ord- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X - x http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w ard-
swallow, eat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language - Indo-European http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avestan - Avestan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
*mmmmv
-
*h1no http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m na http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m ana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m na http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v
name
*se http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m -ha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m a-ā http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m nān(hāmīn) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v īn
summer
*sa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m os-ha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m a-e http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m bazha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M - m bazhe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V - v al
same

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazaki - Zazaki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_language - Kurdish (Kurmanci)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language - English
wtftt/wt/ft
-
he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W - w tha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ft - ft ḥe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wt - wt /he http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ft - ft
seven
ke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wt - wt ka http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ft - ft ke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T - t /ke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wt - wt /ke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ft - ft
get in



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Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 16:07
another problem is the presence of great amount of people with both blondhair and blue or green eyes almost here and there  mostley in very remote and isolated areas both in iran and kurdestan too,
how did they landed thereShocked if only germans are aryan and white  with blond hair and blue eyes !!and comming from  ATLANTISWink
then how in the heaven these guys landed in zagros mountainsQuestion
maybe there was an rescue operation by airBig smile at the time of catastrophy in atlantis and those guys were brought here by LUFT HANSA  OR iranairLOL


Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 18:22
Originally posted by opuslola

Both of you have good points! But, rather than using the term "German" would it not be more correct to use the term "Goth?" Certainly the origin of the so called "gothic" tribes both the Eastern and Western varieties offer enough leeway to consider that they at one time entered all of the areas you guys could consider!
If there was common ancestry , I think we should be looking at Scytho-Cymmerian. Germans came from Goths, and Goths came from Scytho-Cymmerians. Kurds came off Medeans, and Medeans sprang from Scytho-Cymmerians who united under Madya (Madius).


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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.


Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 18:34
Originally posted by kalhur

sultan mahmmod ghaznavi  son of spuk-tekin was proud of
his iranian origin , despite he was turk. he proclaimed himself off spring of YAZDGERD the last sasanid king and loved the dari(farsi) language tooBig smile as i said before the turks were so mixed with iranians that for 1000 years ago their king called himslef iranian not turanianBig smile 
How was Mahmud al-Ghaznavi linked to Yazdegerd? His mother or grandmother was a Samanid princess, I read, but does anyone have his detailed lineage from Yazdegerd?


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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 18:58
So, just where do the "Gothic" words fit within the above lists?

Certainly enough Gothic exists to also list their words for the above?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 19:08

Sebüktigin, aged twelve years, was taken prisoner by a neighbouring warring tribe and sold as a slave to a merchant named Nasr the Haji. He was purchased by Alptigin, the Lord Chamberlain of the Samani ruler of Khurasan. However, when Alptigin later rebelled against the Saminid influence, capturing Zabulistan and Ghazni, he raised Sebüktigin to the position of General and married his daughter to him. He served Alptigin, and his two successors Ishaq and Balkatigin. He later succeeded another slave of Alptagin to the throne, and in 977 became the popular ruler of Ghazni.

Sebüktigin enlarged upon Alptigin's conquests, extending his domain north to Balkh, west to Kandahar including most of Khorasan, and east to the Indus River.

Sebüktigin was recognized by the Caliph in Baghdad as governor of his dominions. He died in 997, and was succeeded by his younger son Sultan Ismail of Ghazni. Mahmud rebelled against his younger brother, Sultan Ismail of Ghazni, and took over Ghazni as the new Sultan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferishta - Ferishta  records Sebük Tigin's genealogy as descended from the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassanid - Sassanid  Emperors: "Subooktu-geen, the son of Jookan, the son of Kuzil-Hukum, the son of Kuzil-Arslan, the son of Ferooz, the son of  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazdgerd_III - Yezdijird , king of Persia." Some doubt has been cast on this due the lineage been reckoned too short to account for the 320 intervening years.[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed - citation needed ] What is known about Sebük Tigin is that he was of  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples - Turkic  origin, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seb%C3%BCktigin#cite_note-0 - [1]  born in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barskhan - Barskhan  and bought by  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alptigin - Alptigin  as a boy in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokhara - Bokhara . According to Grousset,

The Turkic mercenary army which Alptigin had raised in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazni - Ghazni , and which was already profoundly influenced by Islam, was from 977 onward led by another Turkic ex-slave -another Mameluke- named Sebüktigin, who made himself master of Tokharistan (Balkh-Kunduz) and Kandahar, and embarked upon the conquest of Kabul.



Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 19:22
dear opsolola
i can not speak gothic and i don't know how modern swedish  language is related to the old gothic, because the dominant tribe which had the power was not Göta it was SVEA and sweden is called  SVERIGE(country of svea) i know little about their origin, but it seems the swedish language is nearest to persian than any other european language on ancient words and verbes too. why i can't explain . i do speak french too . but latin languages are much less related to persianShocked


greftan             gripa               to grip
bordan             bära                bearing
and many verb has been the same but altered by using a  G or H in the begining which make them sound different, but are indeed the same only a G or H is added to the  begining of the verb.


Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2010 at 21:44
Originally posted by kalhur

Dokhtar                             dotter                                                 daughter
I believe 'dokhtar' is also sometimes abbreviated to 'dokht', isn't it?
 
There was a princess of Yazdegerd, I believe from his second or third queen, named 'Mehrandokht'. the word 'Mehr', I understand, meant 'Light' in Persian. As in 'Aryamehr' = 'Light of the Aryans'.
 
So, does 'Mehrandokht' in Persian mean 'Daughter of Light', or perhaps 'Princess of Light?
 
Incidentally, I also read somewhere that the Persians called the River Indus as the 'Mehran' River. But 'Mehrandokht' couldn't have meant 'Daughter of Mehran River', could it? I mean, why would Yazdegerd name a daughter of his after the River Mehran. That river was not that important to him, or to Persia, was it?


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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 01:09

Kalhur, of course there is a large number of similar words in Iranian and Germanic languages but many of them have really a common Indo-European origin and similar words can be found in other IE languages too, for example about the first word that you mentioned, we see the Latin word for "Lip" is also "Lab/Labium".

The important thing is about the sound changes, the Middle Persian word for "Lip" is "Lap", "p" has been changed to "b" in the Modern Persian language and "Lab" is probably an Arabicized word, so we can already say that Swedish "Lep", English "Lip", Middle Persian "Lap" and Modern Persian "Lop" (Cheek), have all an Irano-Germanic origin.

The Kurdish word for "Lip" is "Lew", "p" to "w" is a normal sound change in the Iranian languages, for example as you mentioned, Middle Persian Rupa (fox) is "Rewi" in Kurdish.



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Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 02:24

Hey, that's amazing. 'Fox' in Malay is 'rubah'. Maybe Persian took from Malay huh. Perhaps from ancient Malay seafarers who sailed across the Indian Ocean and up the Persian Gulf or something.Wink

Actually, some guys believe they really did.
 
But we use 'rupa', from Sanskrit 'roopa' I believe, for 'appearance'.


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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 03:19
in my kurdish dialect it becomes( rewei) same word but different pronounciation in different IE languages. i believe it it means theif and robber as fox is stealing chicken around villages!!
malysia and indonesia have both cultural  and historical bands with iran most during the islamisation of these countries. maybe they took the word there or i don't know maybe they are speakers of IE languague too like in  india?

i wonder when in which period of time these people(IE) have been divided  for building different nations worldwide?

Cyrus you are right about changing from p to B ,because arabs do not have P in their language and many old iranian word has  been altered from P to B or from P to F like pirooz becomes firooz and so on to make possible for new iranians from arabic origin to speak persian.

mehran is name for men  mehrandokht could be reffering to mehran's daughter and mehran also could be name for a place too there is a town called mehran in western iran.
the name like
irandokht and turandokht are reffering to be daughter of iran and daughter of turan indicating the nationality.
 my late mother's name was Irandokht she passed away nearly 35 years ago using old iranian name was a tradition in our tribe not following iranisiation trend from pahlavi dynasti.
 my mother was born before pahlavi time, it was a very common name in my tribe for girls.


Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 12:39
isen't that good time to make them ARYAN too?after all we are all human and IE were originally from asia

Yes, according to the prevailing theory but some Scholars believe the IE homeland was E. Europe. Colin Renfew believes it was Asia Minor which most scholars do not agree with. The Tarim Basin mummies go back close to 4,000 so it shows that European looking people did migrate east as well as west.

Basing on the myth of the Titans though is farfetched though. Granted there is always truth to myth, but I would not be put all theory into them, some Afro Centrist like Martin Bernal seem to. (Another thread)

It is a very complex issue and people have been migrating in and out of that region for thousands of years. I tend to agree with the Goth theory that some mentioned. But, I wonder how much impact the Post Islamic invasions on E. Roman, N. African, and Indians land had on the gene pool. Let alone the thousands of slaves, during the Ottoman period, sold in the slave markets of Persia. We can talk about IE theory but what about later migrations, forced or volunteer.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 13:43
 due to  Y HG  evidence and language similarity maybe the  GOTH origin theory is the nearst  to truth.
today with the help of  DNA technic it is not difficult to detect the path of imigration of different tribes.  according to those figures published by europedia, both kurds in turkey and germans have nearly same % of y haplo I which is often called germanic marker, but in iranian or iraqi kuredstan this % is not even  couple of % .
it would be very nice if some anthropolg could check if blond guys in southern kurdestan and lurestan  have germanic Y HG or it is just occured separately like KALASHA  in pakistan? at the end saying the kurds are germans is still not a right world to use, because there is a couple of thousends years of cultural and racial separation and a great mix with different races. in germany besiade I the R1b is the highest and even many other typse in kurdestan there are high amount of  HG T  and J2 . then maybe people with same origin have contribute a large amount  of   DNA  Y  hg, but it is not corecct to call germans kurds or kurds germans.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 14:57
Yes, I now see that some of you have made a little change towards the "Gothic" model of the past!

But, following the currently accepted version of Goth history is somewhat confused! At least to me. As is the theory of the Vandals!, and other groups whose only known history / histories, is/are passed too us via second or third or fourth hand accounts!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Sander
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 17:47
Originally posted by eaglecap

isen't that good time to make them ARYAN too?after all we are all human and IE were originally from asia

Yes, according to the prevailing theory but some Scholars believe the IE homeland was E. Europe. Colin Renfew believes it was Asia Minor which most scholars do not agree with. The Tarim Basin mummies go back close to 4,000 so it shows that European looking people did migrate east as well as west.
 
The prevailing theory for the Proto-Indo-European homeland is  Eastern Europe ( Ukraine and part of Russia),  not Asia.  See for example the cited pdf in this thread ( page 1 and note 2)
 
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28277&PID=630821 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28277&PID=630821
 
 


Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2010 at 18:17
Originally posted by kalhur

in my kurdish dialect it becomes( rewei) same word but different pronounciation in different IE languages. i believe it it means theif and robber as fox is stealing chicken around villages!!
malysia and indonesia have both cultural  and historical bands with iran most during the islamisation of these countries. maybe they took the word there or i don't know maybe they are speakers of IE languague too like in  india?
I was just kidding around, Kal. My frank opinion is that 'rubah' was adopted into Malay from Persian 'rupa'. Yes, Malay cultural and economic links with Persia date back to the early Christian era, at least, when our earliest formal kingdoms were believed to have arisen.
 
Only our links with the Indian region would have started even earlier cos India is nearer to us geographically. That's why easily 60 - 70% of Malay lexicon is of Indic (Sanskrit, Pali, Tamil etc.) origin, although many Malays today may not be even aware of it.
 
Still, anything is possible, cos our ancient ancestors were a seafaring people. And ancient Malay, or Malayo-Polynesian to use a broader term, seafarers were said to have sailed the high seas even earlier than the Indians and the Chinese. Ours was a matriarchical culture, and some scholars even posit that those seafarers were the ones who first introduced the idea of 'goddesses' into the Hindic pantheon, which previously was an all-male pantheon. Our ancestors were like, 'the Phoenicians of East Asia'. 


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History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2010 at 00:19
amazing is my  Y haplo is T and is said comming from mesopetamia and was spread via sea to oman and then south india and even maybe to the rest of asian countries and east and west africa and even  italia both north and south and even swedenShocked gotland and balticum. it seems  many contact between people was due to seafares and coastal migrations!!! y  DNA T is also related  to  K which is mother to many different  haplogroups. the pattern of mankind's migration is fantasic and interseting subject.


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 12:52
No, Kurds aren´t of German origin the reason why Hitler said this was he wanted to have a relationchip with the old Aryan Nations of middle East. There could be a gothic influence if the gutis of Zagros realy were goth. The ancestors of Kurds are Medians which  themselves were just a conforderation of hundrets of Tribes like Urartian, Hurrians, Scyths, Hethits, Lullubis, Cassits, gutis and so on. The Medians we know were not a homogene Nation. Even the first Median King Kyaxares I. was a half Urartian  


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 13:58
Xorto, welcome!

Just thought I'd interject that people from the Mediteranean area, could well be called "Medes" or "Medians"? Med.Sea means, in essence, the middle sea!

Just a guess however!

Regards,

-------------
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 14:11
I think Kurds, like Persians, Turks and some other peoples in the Middle East and Europe, call Germany as "Alman",  according to ancient Mesopotamian sources, Kurds of Iran lived in a region which was also called as "Alman", Kassite kings usually called themselves King of Alman and Gutium, the obvious fact is that Almani and Guti tribes lived in a region near each other and there was certainly a strong relation between them.

-------------


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 14:36
i don't know if the sasanides were kurd- pars population or only pars but they lived in southern kordestan  between BISETOON - CTISFON ( from kermanshah to ghasre shirin- khaneghin and mandali in iraq) the same place our tribe is living and  our tribe is called kalhur -bavandpour refering to bavand son of yazdegerd 3th  which tried to gather a resistant army during arab invasion in the zagros mountains later he moved to mazandaran and one of his sons GODARZ was left behind. he is  one of the foundator of kalhor tribe it is why we are called  BAVANDPOUR too . 
in our old poems in my dialect many times the bavand and godarz have benn mentioned as ancestores
. our language is very close to pahlawi  too. i hope someone with better historical knowledge can shed more light .


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 15:06

@Opuslola spas dekim.

@kalhur and cyrus shahmiri. I thing we are all the same opinion that the Name the real Name of Kurds came from Guti but the Kurds of today are in fact descent of medians because the medians their self united many different Folks and peoples to one nation to fight against the assyrians. Thats why todays Kurds have such a diversity too. Not only Medians mixed up the Persians did this too with elamits and other old mesopotamien nations.



Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 15:50
in a region like kordestan with such a rich historical heritage . no doubt we are mixed of many  ancient civilisations and median which gave us more a cultural form like language and religion before islam. we are a mixture of medes and divers local populatuion as it is the case for the FARS  and  ARABS  too. no one can claime to be from a pure race like in some propaganda video klips in youtube!the issue of race in middle east is funny, we are a nice mix and we love our land and originBig smile


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 06-May-2010 at 16:03
@kalhur exactly!


Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 07-May-2010 at 01:32
Every tribe or nation in the world started as a motley crew collection of ethnically diverse individuals. You name it, Dorians, Thracians, Scythians, Cymmerians, Sarmatians, Trojans, Phrygians, Medeans, Persians, Romans, Egyptians etc. etc. etc. They all started as diverse people.
 
Only, in some places, some tribes may have remained isolated from others, due to natural geographical barriers e.g. mountains, deserts, seas, for a long time, thereby eventually becoming ethnically relatively less-mixed than others.


-------------
History makes everything. Everything is history in the making.


Posted By: Sharrukin
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 00:33
I think Kurds, like Persians, Turks and some other peoples in the Middle East and Europe, call Germany as "Alman",  according to ancient Mesopotamian sources, Kurds of Iran lived in a region which was also called as "Alman", Kassite kings usually called themselves King of Alman and Gutium, the obvious fact is that Almani and Guti tribes lived in a region near each other and there was certainly a strong relation between them.
 
The reason why Germany is called such by some other nations is because of an ancient Germanic confederation of tribes called the Alemanni which lived in the westernmost part of ancient Germania.  Hence, in Spanish, Germany is called Alemannia, and in French, Allemagne.  This Germanic confederation only came to existence by about AD 213 when the Roman Emperor Caracalla defeated them.  Before this time, the Germanics of the region were simply called Suevi.  The name of the confederation itself meant "all men" just as another confederation to the north of the Alemanni was to call itself the Franks "the free".  There is no reason to derive it from anything else.


Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 07:20
The Germans were a mix of a lot of different tribes mostly Germanic and some celtic (like a some of the swiss tribes) who took on German culture (otherwise they would be wiped out)
 
Even today, High German is a not really a normal or natural language of all the German people. It was created to have a unified language, becuase really Germans all spoke the dialect that there local tribes spoke (until the Prussians forced Hochdeutsch)
 
For example my ancestors spoke neiderrheinsch (Northern Rhine a mix of low franconian and low saxon), and plattdeutsch (Flat German) with a (westfallen dialect) Prob somebody speaking Swiss German could't understand them. Whats funny about the old low german languages (which was spoken all over northern germany) as I understand it, is that they are closer to dutch and old english than high German
 
 


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 08:26
Hi maximus
nice to have a real german here to discus this matter,
it would be nice to have your opinion.
is there anything in german school books about the origin of germans from middle east?
i asked the same question from my swedish friends and they were surprised Shocked
they say the closest germanic ethnical peoples are danish and normans and their  less closest relatives are  germans, dutch and british people and the germanic tribes have been in scandinavia from the begining many thousends of years ago maybe from early neolithic or even paleolithic period!!!
what is german scholars saying about the origin of people in Germany?


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 10:03
I think no one can deny the role of Saksin (Scythians) in the formation of both Kurdish and German Cultures, they were an Aryan people who invaded southward to the northwest of Iran and west to modern Poland and Germany in the seventh and sixth century BC and changed many things, their orginal land was probably in the Volga Delta in Russia which was also known as Saksin in pre-Mongol times, more info about Saksin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqsin - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqsin
 
Strabo, Pliny and some other ancient historians say that Scythians who conquered the lands of Medians, Mannaeans, Urartians, ..., built a city named Saksin (Sacasene/Sacassani) in the northwest of Iran too, there is already no doubt that the modern city of Sakkez in Kurdistan was the capital of the Scythian empire, even a Scythian inscription in the Hieroglyphic Hittite script has been found there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_languages
 
As I said here about the linguistic ancestors of Kurds: http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28071&PN=1 - http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28071&PN=1  Herodotus says that Cyaxares, the greatest king of Media, had ordered the people to learn Scythian language, Diakonoff in "History of Media" says that it was impossible to make a union between different Median tribes without an intertribal language, and for several reasons this language just could be Scythian.
 
But about the German culture, we know the same Saksen people in almost the same period invaved and conquered a large part of modern Germany and Poland, put an end to the Lusatian culture (1300 BC - 500 BC) and formed a new culture in this region, you can read about it in a book which has been written by the greatest Iranologists of the world: The Cambridge History of Iran, by William Bayne Fisher, Ilya Gershevitch, Ehsan Yarshater, R. N. Frye, J. A. Boyle, Peter Jackson, Laurence Lockhart, Peter Avery, Gavin Hambly and Charles Melville, this book talks about the Scythian presence in these region and has provided several evidences, for example look at this page:  http://books.google.com/books?id=vRR8dfI7j_kC&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&&source=bl&ots=tgIv73v2NJ&sig=wb-dpPZkfDC5ImCvWJeqagZ-L30&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA192,M1 - The Cambridge History of Iran, page 192
 


-------------


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 10:51
my dear friend cyrus. 
every thing is relative even factsWink
 sure you know  better than me about history, but it would be nice to know what germans themseleves or scandinavians or british people saying and what is written in school books here in europe!!!


Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 10:59

You are right every thing is relative, sometimes they kill other people to prove to be "Aryan" and sometimes they kill people who call them "Aryan"! Wink



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Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 11:07

Origins

Further information:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Germanic - Pre-Germanic  and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic - Proto-Germanic

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Germanic_peoples&action=edit&section=6 - edit ]Bronze Age

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nordic_Bronze_Age.png">
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nordic_Bronze_Age.png">
Map of the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age - Nordic Bronze Age  culture, around 1200 BCE

Regarding the question of ethnic origins, evidence developed by archaeologists and linguists suggests that a people or group of peoples sharing a common material culture dwelt in a region defined by the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age - Nordic Bronze Age  culture between 1700 BCE and 600 BCE. The Germanic tribes then inhabited southern  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia - Scandinavia ,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleswig-Holstein - Schleswig-Holstein  and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg - Hamburg , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-7 - [8]  but subsequent Iron Age cultures of the same region, like  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessenstedt - Wessenstedt (800 to 600 BCE) and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastorf_culture - Jastorf , are also in consideration. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-8 - [9]  The change of  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIE - Proto-Indo-European  to  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic - Proto-Germanic  has been defined by the first sound shift (or  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimms_law - Grimm's law ) and must have occurred when mutually intelligible dialects or languages in a  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprachbund - Sprachbund  were still able to convey such a change to the whole region. So far it has been impossible to date this event conclusively.

The precise interaction between these peoples is not known, however, they are tied together and influenced by regional features and migration patterns linked to prehistoric cultures like Hügelgräber,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urnfield - Urnfield , and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Tene - La Tene . A deteriorating climate in Scandinavia around 850 BCE to 760 BCE and a later and more rapid one around 650 BCE might have triggered migrations to the coast of Eastern Germany and further towards the Vistula. A contemporary northern expansion of Hallstatt drew part of these peoples into the Celtic hemisphere, including  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock - nordwestblock  areas and the region of  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elp_culture - Elp culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-9 - [10]  (1800 BCE to 800 BCE).

At around this time, this culture became influenced by  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt_culture - Hallstatt  techniques of how to extract  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_iron - bog iron  from the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore - ore  in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_bogs - peat bogs , ushering in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_Iron_Age - Pre-Roman Iron Age .

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Germanic_peoples&action=edit&section=7 - edit ]Early Iron Age

Main article:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_Iron_Age - Pre-Roman Iron Age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tribes_%28750BC-1AD%29.png">
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_tribes_%28750BC-1AD%29.png">
The expansion of the Germanic tribes 750 BC – AD 1 (after the Penguin Atlas of World History 1988):      Settlements before 750 BC      New settlements by 500 BC      New settlements by 250 BC      New settlements by AD 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homme_de_Tollund.jpg">
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homme_de_Tollund.jpg">
The  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tollund_Man - Tollund Man  was buried in  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutland - Jutland  in the 4th Century BCE, a historically important area inhabited by the Germanic peoples. His corpse is one of several well preserved  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_bodies - bog bodies  from the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_Iron_Age - Pre-Roman Iron Age .

Archeological evidence suggests a relatively uniform Germanic people were located at about 750 BCE from the Netherlands to the Vistula and in Southern Scandinavia. In the west the coastal floodplains were populated for the first time, since in adjacent higher grounds the population had increased and the soil became exhausted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-10 - [11]  At about 250 BCE, some expansion to the south had occurred and five general groups can be distinguished: North Germanic in southern Scandinavia, excluding Jutland; North Sea Germanic, along the North Sea and in Jutland; Rhine-Weser Germanic, along the middle Rhine and Weser; Elbe Germanic, along the middle Elbe; and East Germanic, between the middle Oder and the Vistula. This concurs with linguistic evidence pointing at the development of five linguistic groups, mutually linked into sets of two to four groups that shared linguistic innovations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-11 - [12]

This period witnessed the advent of Celtic culture of  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallstatt - Hallstatt  and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Tene - La Tene  signature in previous Northern Bronze Age territory, especially to the western extends. However, some proposals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-12 - [13]  suggest this Celtic  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum_%28linguistics%29 - superstrate  was weak, while the general view in the Netherlands holds that this Celtic influence did not involve intrusions at all and assume fashion and a local development from Bronze Age culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-13 - [14]  It is generally accepted such a Celtic superstratum was virtually absent to the East, featuring the Germanic  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessenstedt - Wessenstedt  and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastorf_culture - Jastorf  cultures. The Celtic influence and contacts between Gaulish and early Germanic culture along the Rhine is assumed as the source of a number of Celtic loanwords in Proto-Germanic.

Frankenstein and Rowlands (1978), and Wells (1980) have suggested late Hallstatt trade contact to be a direct catalyst for the development of an elite class that came into existence around northeastern France, the Middle Rhine region, and adjacent Alpine regions (Collis 1984:41), culminating to new cultural developments and the advent of the classical Gaulish  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Tene_Culture - La Tene Culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-14 - [15]  The development of La Tene culture extended to the north around 200 to 150 BCE, including the North German Plain, Denmark and Southern Scandinavia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-15 - [16]

In certain cremation graves, situated at some distance from other graves, Celtic metalwork appears: brooches and swords, together with wagons, Roman cauldrons and drinking vessels. The area of these rich graves is the same as the places where later (the first century CE) princely graves are found. A ruling class seems to have emerged, distinguished by the possession of large farms and rich gravegifts such as weapons for the men and silver objects for the women, imported earthenware and Celtic items. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-16 - [17]

The first Germani in Roman ethnography cannot be clearly identified as either Germanic or Celtic in the modern ethno-linguistic sense, and it has been generally held the traditional clear cut division along the Rhine between both ethnic groups was primarily motivated by Roman politics. Caesar described the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eburones - Eburones  as a Germanic tribe on the Gallic side of the Rhine, and held other tribes in the neighbourhood as merely calling themselves of Germanic stock. Even though names like Eburones and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiorix - Ambiorix  were Celtic and, archeologically, this area shows strong Celtic influences, the problem is difficult. Some 20th century writers consider the possibility of a separate " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock - nordwestblock " identity of the tribes settled along the Rhine at the time, assuming the arrival of a Germanic superstrate from the 1st century BCE and a subsequent "Germanization" or language replacement through the "elite-dominance" model. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-17 - [18]  However, immigration of Germanic  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavians - Batavians  from Hessen in the northern extent of this same tribal region is, archeologically speaking, hardly noticeable and certainly did not populate an exterminated country, very unlike Tacitus suggested. Here, probably due to the local indigenous pastoral way of life, the acceptance of Roman culture turned out to be particularly slow and, contrary to expected, the indigenous culture of the previous Eburones rather seems to have absorbed the intruding (Batavian) element, thus making it very hard to define the real extents of the pre-Roman Germanic indigenous territories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples#cite_note-18 - [19]

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Germanic_peoples&action=edit&section=8 - edit ]History



Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 11:21
The change of  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIE - Proto-Indo-European  to  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic - Proto-Germanic  has been defined by the first sound shift (or  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimms_law - Grimm's law )
 
About 1,400 posts in the thread:  http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24637 - Is Germanic a subgroup of the Iranian languages? is about this thing, the problem is just that Germans don't want to be Aryan anymore!!


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Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 11:39

Genetics

The genetic makeup of the Nordwestblock region is typified by the occurrence of the following Y-chromosome markers:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b - haplogroup R1b  (averaging 70%) and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I_%28Y-DNA%29 - haplogroup I  (averaging 25%), associated respectively to the robust Eurasiatic  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon - Cro Magnoid  homo sapiens of the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurignacian - Aurignacian  culture, and the subsequent gracile leptodolichomorphous people of the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravettian - Gravettian  culture that entered Europe from the Middle East 20,000 to 25,000 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-19 - [20]  A very small Neolithic element can be concerned in occurrences of haplogroup E (Hg E3b1a, 5% or less) that originally presented a clearly Sub-Saharan African element http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-20 - [21]  An equally low occurrence is concerned in haplogroup R1a1, Investigation of the Y-chromosome reveal markedly low occurrences of the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a1_%28Y-DNA%29 - Hg R1a1  gene, whose lineage is thought to have originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black and Caspian Seas, associated with the Kurgan culture. http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html - [9] . R1a1 measurements read 6.2% to Germans (a 4X drop to Czechs and Slovakians reading 26,7%) and 3.7% to Dutch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-21 - [22]

With regard to the Nordwestblock hypothesis that a unique culture lived in the region, apart from the Germanic and Celtic people, it can be concluded that none of these genes point to genetic isolation. Both Hg R1b and Hg I are largely to fully represented by subgroups having their maxima in the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia - Frisia  (R1b1c9, the most common subgroup of R1b), in the Netherlands and Northern Germany (Hg I1b2a, also referred to as Hg I1c), and adjacent Northern Europe (Hg I1a). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-22 - [23]  This result is contradictory to genetic barrier analyses that had shown a clear gene barrier along the Vistula. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-23 - [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-23 - 24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordwestblock#cite_note-23 - ]

and now only 6% R1A1(genetic aryan marker) in germanyWink LOL in this case kurds are more aryan than germansShocked the% of R1a1 is much higher among the kurds!!! and while in all  the scandinavian countries "origin land of germans according themselves"  R1a1 is always more than 20% and in norway even  it is over 30%!! the scandinavians are probably less german and more aryanBig smile

coclusion the kurds are more aryan than germans, because R1a1 is much higher in kurdestan and germans are no longer aryans!!! and kurds and germans are not related to each otherApprove

70% R1b+ 25% I  + 6,2 % R1a1+ 5 % E3b1= 106.2%not bad maybe those 6,2% over the 100% is % of ilegal aliensLOL



Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 12:44

@Cyrus Not just the Kurds from Sakkes are of Scythian origin for sure the Badinan Kurds from North-Iraq are this too. Many Historian noticed that they Dress like the old Scythians and even look like them when they travelled through Kurdistan


Look at this Guy from left. He is a Badinan-Kurd and looks like Scyth





Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 12:47
@Kalhur which haplogroups are most common among the Kurds ?   


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 13:20
Even Kurds who claim they are pure are even mixed.  As it depends on the location.   Genetic testing found that Kurds of Georgia are closer to Georgians where as Kurds of Turkey were closer to Turks of turkey and Iranians.  Kurds of North Iraq were related to Iranians and populations that live in Northern Iraq like Assyrians and Arabs.  

Here Y-DNA results for average per country or population so not every ethnic group will have the same make up certain citys will be different to another.   http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml - http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Kurds have no J1 Big smile



Region/Haplogroup
I
R1a
R1b
G
J2
J1
E
T
L
Q
N
Others

Syria
5
10
13.5
3
17
30
11.5
5
3
0
0
2

Georgia
3.5
9
11
31
24.5
2
4.5
2.5
3
0
0
10.5
Iran
3
16.5
6.5
10
12
10
4.5
3
4
4
2.5
27
Iraq
5
6.5
11
3
27
31
11
7
3
0
0
0

Armenia
4
8
28
11
22
0
5
6
4
0
2
12
Azerbaijan
3
7
11
18
20
12
6
11
0
0
0
15


Kurdistan (Turkey)
25
19.5
8
12.5
7
0
2.5
6.5
0
0
0
18.5


Region/Haplogroup
I1
I2a
I2b
R1a
R1b
G2a
J2
J1
E1b1b
(+L)
Q
N1c1

Turkey
1
4
0.5
7.5
15
11
21
12.5
11
2
2
4

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Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 13:40
Kalhur i would have never imagined how high the rate of I1 is among Kurds from North but i do have known that there are many Kurds with European features my Mother is for example real Blond and Blue eyed and looks more Russian than many other Europeans.


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:16
there are surely many people with fair hair and blue or green eyes in both iran and kurdestan too, in my tribe there are many people like that , but we shall not forget the majority of us have dark hair and olive coulor skin. due to the very mixed origin in the same family you can have brothers one very dark and one very light. the peoples are hetrozygous they carry both gens for blue eye and dark eye  and i have a y hg T which is not indoeuropean( maybe eylamite origin) , but my father had green + hazel eyes and mother black eyes i got my mothers eyes , because it is genetical the dominent colour and blue eye is  genetical recessive . anyway what matters the genetic difference between a black african and white is less than 0,001 they both share 99,99% same gens!!and that 0,01% is for both exterieur  colour and mental and behaviour too!!!


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:24
@kalhur of course  most Kurds are Black-Brown haired and have manly brown-green eyes. look at me i have  brown eyes and black hair. as Child it was brownish. But hey you look more European than meBig smile


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:50
 i look genuin kalhur and i love my tribe . i had an older brother that passed away many years ago . he hade a black dark hair and big black  mustash and very  tal and very atelethic and handsome .
 i always wanted to look like him. he was a very gentle and nice person too RIP. 
 i loved him more than every thing in my life. you see we can be brothers and look very different depending to the gens individualy inherited from our grand parents or ancestors, we are not clones brother can see and look very diferent from each other.
let me tel you a joke .
i had an old relative and he had 5 sons the oldest was very dark and the youngest was almost blond and they looked like each other both the colour was diffrent!!.  i asked him why it is so.
he told me bring a page of paper and a pen,
i did so.
then he told me keep the pen hard and push it hard when you are writing and write A.
i did so !
then he told me next time take the pen gently and soft when you writing  and write  A again .
i did so. then he told me you see when i was younger and stronger  i wrote harderWink and when i get older i coulden't write as hard as before and the colour become more paleLOL
it was my old relatives genetic lessonBig smile about the origin of racesLOL


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 14:59

Sorry for your Dead brother. Hope he is in Haven inshallah.


@ Nice joke:DLOL

Yes of course a Kurd is a Kurd no matter Green, white, yellow,Black or brown. Important is the Cultur and language!And we fought so many times to be one Nation again and won´t stop till we are!



Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:14

the joke was a kurdish lesson in geneticLOL
i hope one day in middle east like in europe all nations like iran turkey and irak build a  common market like european union  EC with respect and cultural atuonomy and for all the nations and religious and ethnic  minorities without more bloodshed , nnearly ½ of our villages and smal cities have been ravaged by war between iran and iraqDisapprove we all share acommon old cultural heritage from hindokush to ankara. why should we need to kill each other instead of following the path of civilisation and democracy. inshalah


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:19


You are right and i would love such a thing. No More borders. So the Kurds can live free thats the only thing i want and what makes most angry. That we Kurds are divided! A Question are you from the USA?



Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:22
no i am living in sweden. 
only 100 years ago there were no border between iran and iraq actually  a part of my tribe is living in iraq , mandali . khaneghin and even many lived in the poor halabjahUnhappy.
 these border was made as late as after ww1


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:36
for 400 Years there were no Border between all kurdish tribes. And i thing 400 Years are enough. Are you full Kurd by genetic or half swedish? i would say you look to me full Kurdish.


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 15:57
i am ful kurdish with very distant paternal line from fars shiraz(1700 ad) of lore tribe called  zand, but i am married to swedish and have  children and grandchildren wich are mixed kurd/swedish + irish+ englishLOL
 i am the last mohikanUnhappy in the family no one can speak my beloved kalhuri dialectCry these guys in my family can't speak kurdish or farsi and even grand childrens speak only english!! 
i am very disapointed . i have to find a young and nice kalhur wife , before it is too lateLOL


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:00
LOL you are funny man. What is sad is that no one of your childs speak kurdish thats sad. So the Kalhuri dialect will die. You childs don´t need to speak farsi like my childs don´t need to speak turkish it´s not our language just the language of our "beloved" neighbours.


Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:12
i will resist to cultural assimilation in europe .
 i 'll marry a nice and young kalhur or kurdish  wifeWink 
anyway the monogamy is a kind of cultural discriminationBig smile imposed  to us by european lawAngry
 a good man should have many wivesLOL


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:16

LOLOf course but just when your wife accept this otherwise you will get problemsLOL




Posted By: kalhur
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:24
i told her about this horrible  discriminationDisapprove she is very democratic  like all the swedes  are and usually against all kind of discrimination, but i don't know why she do not try understand meUnhappy


Posted By: Xorto
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 16:29
Even for democrats this would be going to farBig smile.  I wish you a good night Iam tired and want to sleep a while


Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 08-May-2010 at 17:02
Kurds and genetics is a bit tricky, because regions where Kurds live, the population have different genetic make up and due to mixing, some Kurds are close to their neighbours.

That date from Eupidia only shows Anatolians Kurds and is both Zaza and Kurmanji speakers combined average.

These are the ones I remember reading about and know top of my head.
Haplogroups

J2 (mesopotamia marker,Assyrians,Sumerians..ect) Is found at around 35% in Kurds from Georgia and Georgians themselves have high frequancey of J2 and is also found around 25% in Iraq Kurds.  Kurmanji Speakers from Turkey have around 10-13% and is around 4% among the Zaza

I - Is a North European marker, Is found highest among the Zaza and Kurmanji speakers from Turkey, Zaza have 30% where the Kurmanji have around 18%.

R1a1, is found at average 15-20% of all Kurds and same average in Iran, and is the Indo-Iranian marker.  Odd that Iran has less R1a1 then North India, who have average of 70%Shocked.  Just shows how mixed West Iranian people are.

P/R2 is found at around 8% in Kurmanji Kurds from Turkey, Haplogroup P/R2 is known as a South Asian marker and is also found in Central Asia.  How did that get their? Shocked maybe the Mittani?



I would not rely to much on genetic testing as, they have only tested a few groups and not each city or tribes, to get a better idea.






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Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 09-May-2010 at 00:48
Originally posted by kalhur

Hi maximus
nice to have a real german here to discus this matter,
it would be nice to have your opinion.
is there anything in german school books about the origin of germans from middle east?
i asked the same question from my swedish friends and they were surprised Shocked
they say the closest germanic ethnical peoples are danish and normans and their  less closest relatives are  germans, dutch and british people and the germanic tribes have been in scandinavia from the begining many thousends of years ago maybe from early neolithic or even paleolithic period!!!
what is german scholars saying about the origin of people in Germany?
 
 
I live in the US
 

I am of German descent, My great grandparents immigrated from Germany (The Rhineland and Westfallen respectively) They were fluent German speakers.  My German is OK, the problem is like a posted earlier my grand dads side spoke mostly neiderrheinsch and the my dad’s moms side spoke plattdeustch with the westfallen saxon dialect. It was confusing when I was learning German in grade school, because the language (everybody learns is Hochdeustch) was different than what I picked up growing up. Later In college I learned why, Germany is made up of dozens of dialects depending on what tribe you came from. Some of the dialects can't even be understood by other Germans.

 

Anyway my undergrad was in European History-- I emphasized in Germany during Roman tribes, the early German tribes and the conflict with Rome (since most of that took place where my family came from it was of huge interest to me). I also spent a lot of time studying Reformation Europe. (As we had ancestors who fought for the electorate of Cologne during the 30 years war)

 

Anyway, I am a German American. A Major in the US Army.



Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 09-May-2010 at 07:10
Where are you all getting those percents from ?

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Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 09-May-2010 at 07:46
Originally posted by Maximus Germanicus

 
 
I live in the US
 

I am of German descent, My great grandparents immigrated from Germany (The Rhineland and Westfallen respectively) They were fluent German speakers.  My German is OK, the problem is like a posted earlier my grand dads side spoke mostly neiderrheinsch and the my dad’s moms side spoke plattdeustch with the westfallen saxon dialect. It was confusing when I was learning German in grade school, because the language (everybody learns is Hochdeustch) was different than what I picked up growing up. Later In college I learned why, Germany is made up of dozens of dialects depending on what tribe you came from. Some of the dialects can't even be understood by other Germans.

 

Anyway my undergrad was in European History-- I emphasized in Germany during Roman tribes, the early German tribes and the conflict with Rome (since most of that took place where my family came from it was of huge interest to me). I also spent a lot of time studying Reformation Europe. (As we had ancestors who fought for the electorate of Cologne during the 30 years war)

 

Anyway, I am a German American. A Major in the US Army.

 
That`s nice! Do you know something about Celtic tribe of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treveri - Treveri  ? They lived along Rihne river 2000 years before. According to Julius Ceaser in his "Commentaries on the Gallic War", Treveri lived on both side of Rihne river and had more advanced economy than Germanic tribes on east. What is your opinion about Celtic impact into later Germanic culture?
As a military man it`s interesting to me what you know about the origins of the Prussians? Otto von Bismarck was a idol to Adolf Hitler, but Bismarck as a pure Prussian aristocrat was not a pure German. Prussians were a Germanized by Teutonic orden Baltic nation. One of the three initial Baltic nations. The other two are the Latvians and Lithuanians.



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