Liberalism & atheism linked to higher IQ's

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Topic: Liberalism & atheism linked to higher IQ's

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Subject: Liberalism & atheism linked to higher IQ's
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2010 at 16:21

Duh...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html

(CNN) -- Political, religious and sexual behaviors may be reflections of intelligence, a new study finds.

Evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa at the the London School of Economics and Political Science correlated data on these behaviors with IQ from a large national U.S. sample and found that, on average, people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs. This applied also to sexual exclusivity in men, but not in women. The findings will be published in the March 2010 issue of Social Psychology Quarterly.

The IQ differences, while statistically significant, are not stunning -- on the order of 6 to 11 points -- and the data should not be used to stereotype or make assumptions about people, experts say. But they show how certain patterns of identifying with particular ideologies develop, and how some people's behaviors come to be.

The reasoning is that sexual exclusivity in men, liberalism and atheism all go against what would be expected given humans' evolutionary past. In other words, none of these traits would have benefited our early human ancestors, but higher intelligence may be associated with them.

"The adoption of some evolutionarily novel ideas makes some sense in terms of moving the species forward," said George Washington University leadership professor James Bailey, who was not involved in the study. "It also makes perfect sense that more intelligent people -- people with, sort of, more intellectual firepower -- are likely to be the ones to do that."

Bailey also said that these preferences may stem from a desire to show superiority or elitism, which also has to do with IQ. In fact, aligning oneself with "unconventional" philosophies such as liberalism or atheism may be "ways to communicate to everyone that you're pretty smart," he said.

The study looked at a large sample from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health ( http://www.cpc.unc.edu/projects/addhealth - Add Health ), which began with adolescents in grades 7-12 in the United States during the 1994-95 school year. The participants were interviewed as 18- to 28-year-olds from 2001 to 2002. The study also looked at the http://www.norc.org/GSS+Website/ - General Social Survey , another cross-national data collection source.

Kanazawa did not find that higher or lower intelligence predicted sexual exclusivity in women. This makes sense, because having one partner has always been advantageous to women, even thousands of years ago, meaning exclusivity is not a "new" preference.

For men, on the other hand, sexual exclusivity goes against the grain evolutionarily. With a goal of spreading genes, early men had multiple mates. Since women had to spend nine months being pregnant, and additional years caring for very young children, it made sense for them to want a steady mate to provide them resources.

Religion, the current theory goes, did not help people survive or reproduce necessarily, but goes along the lines of helping people to be paranoid, Kanazawa said. Assuming that, for example, a noise in the distance is a signal of a threat helped early humans to prepare in case of danger.

"It helps life to be paranoid, and because humans are paranoid, they become more religious, and they see the hands of God everywhere," Kanazawa said.

Participants who said they were atheists had an average IQ of 103 in adolescence, while adults who said they were religious averaged 97, the study found. Atheism "allows someone to move forward and speculate on life without any concern for the dogmatic structure of a religion," Bailey said.

"Historically, anything that's new and different can be seen as a threat in terms of the religious beliefs; almost all religious systems are about permanence," he noted.

The study takes the American view of liberal vs. conservative. It defines "liberal" in terms of concern for genetically nonrelated people and support for private resources that help those people. It does not look at other factors that play into American political beliefs, such as abortion, gun control and gay rights.

"Liberals are more likely to be concerned about total strangers; conservatives are likely to be concerned with people they associate with," he said.

Given that human ancestors had a keen interest in the survival of their offspring and nearest kin, the conservative approach -- looking out for the people around you first -- fits with the evolutionary picture more than liberalism, Kanazawa said. "It's unnatural for humans to be concerned about total strangers." he said.

The study found that young adults who said they were "very conservative" had an average adolescent IQ of 95, whereas those who said they were "very liberal" averaged 106.

It also makes sense that "conservatism" as a worldview of keeping things stable would be a safer approach than venturing toward the unfamiliar, Bailey said.

Neither Bailey nor Kanazawa identify themselves as liberal; Bailey is conservative and Kanazawa is "a strong libertarian."

Vegetarianism, while not strongly associated with IQ in this study, has been shown to be related to intelligence in previous research, Kanazawa said. This also fits into Bailey's idea that unconventional preferences appeal to people with higher intelligence, and can also be a means of showing superiority.

None of this means that the human species is evolving toward a future where these traits are the default, Kanazawa said.

"More intelligent people don't have more children, so moving away from the trajectory is not going to happen," he said.

The most alarming part of this new piece is the last statement, in which it says intelligent people are not having more children... this is truly sad. Has anyone seen the film Idiocracy?

Replies:

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 10:22

Here is some info about the movie Idiocracy (which is a really good movie):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

A narrator ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Earl_Mann&action=edit&redlink=1 - Earl Mann ) explains that in modern society, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection - natural selection has become indifferent toward intelligence, so that in a society in which intelligence is systematically debased, stupid people easily out-breed the intelligent, creating, over the course of five centuries, an irredeemably dysfunctional society. Consequently, the children of the educated elites are drowned in a sea of sexually promiscuous, illiterate, alcoholic, degenerate peers.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 11:14

Maybe this study explains why so many people simply cannot understand something as simple as this:

Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 14:40

All of the Hype is about Health insurance. They need to address the actual costs of Hospitals and Emergency rooms. Health insurance of any sort won't work unless the medical expenses are brought under control.

An example, 6 weeks ago I experienced a "problem", I finally had to go to the Emergency room as I was unable to get my doctor. 4 hours, 2 catscans and a couple of bloodtests- 5,326.00. That's nuts.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 17:10

Originally posted by red clay

All of the Hype is about Health insurance. They need to address the actual costs of Hospitals and Emergency rooms. Health insurance of any sort won't work unless the medical expenses are brought under control.

An example, 6 weeks ago I experienced a "problem", I finally had to go to the Emergency room as I was unable to get my doctor. 4 hours, 2 catscans and a couple of bloodtests- 5,326.00. That's nuts.

Yea, most things about health care in this country are messed up. The only people are against health care the the wealthy who can afford this absurd system (but what they dont realize is that the nation cannot afford it, as the graphs show above) and the less educated, who are easily manipulated by the rich.

Remember, more than half of tea partiers do not have a college education.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 17:22

Did any of you ever consider "Lawsuits?" Duh! Besides the other nations mentioned being more of a co-hesive nature race wise, as opposed to the USA, I doubt that Lawyers are literally lying in hiding at hospitals and clinics around the USA looking for lawsuits! Genetics and family background can also play a major part in both health and lifespan!

In those nations which have "national health-care", there is not the same expectation that one will find here in the USA.

That is Red Clay, I would doubt if you would receive one scan in Canada, or the UK, much less two. That is another reason that US hospitals have a lot more of such equipment other than Japan, which probably has its own reasons for having such a large number of them.

I also doubt if any of the above listed countries or all of them put together have anywhere from 12 to 25 million illegals using our as opposed to their (the other nations listed) facilities?

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2010 at 17:43

Regarding your more highly developed Liberal brain, please take some time away from solving the problems of faster than light travel and read this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

Where you will find, if you actually have the time, to read this section;
"Kanazawa's theories on race and intelligence are controversial. Kanazawa has argued that Asian cultural traditions and/or character inhibit Asian scientific creativity[11] and that "political correctness" is a bigger threat to American evolutionary psychology than religious fundamentalism.[12] As a result, he has been accused of promoting "racist stereotypes".[13] In 2006 Kanazawa published a controversial paper suggesting that poor health of people in some nations is the result, not of poverty, but rather lower IQ.[14][15] In the British Journal of Health Psychology George T. H. Ellison wrote that the theory is based on flawed assumptions, questionable data, inappropriate analyses and biased interpretations. Ellison wrote that Kanazawa mistook statistical associations for evidence of causality and falsely concluded that populations in sub-Saharan Africa are less healthy because they are unintelligent and not because they are poor.[16] Kevin Denny wrote similar criticisms regarding the IQ data and stated that African Americans should have similar IQs when compared to the sub-Saharan African population and that Kanazawa should have measured the distance between areas in a topographical fashion. [17]"

So, you see some others have questioned his results in other studies he has done!

And, if you really want to impress the opposite sex you guys can get some hits from the Doctor of "evolutionary psychology" at this site;

http://www.intelligencesquared.com/people/k/dr-satoshi-kanazawa

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 15:52

Taken from my above citation are these particular words, which anyone with an IQ at least ten points above my 135, should notice! Chuckle!

"In the British Journal of Health Psychology George T. H. Ellison wrote that the theory is based on flawed assumptions, questionable data, inappropriate analyses and biased interpretations. Ellison wrote that Kanazawa mistook statistical associations for evidence of causality and falsely concluded that populations in sub-Saharan Africa are less healthy because they are unintelligent and not because they are poor.[16] Kevin Denny wrote similar criticisms regarding the IQ data and stated that African Americans should have similar IQs when compared to the sub-Saharan African population and that Kanazawa should have measured the distance between areas in a topographical fashion. [17]"

Note the words "mistook" and "falsely"!

No matter his political agenda (if any), he is not one to avoid critisism!

By the way, I had an outstanding 2.1 GPA in college! Laugh! Of course college was a lot tougher than it is today! I even took a couple of Education courses, in which I got a 3.0 just by showing up! I considered those courses much like PhysED! But, it is from such that our educators of today get their degrees!

That is life!

Regards,

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2010 at 22:46

Credit card debt and why we need credit card reform, for those who have not been able to grasp the concept, here is a simple video:

[TUBE]Vz05A6cP6Iw[/TUBE]

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2010 at 11:44

Yes Sir! Youv'e got it right! That is why the word Minimum is used! This means that you only pay the current interest due, and little or nothing more! Your neighborhood Pawn and loan center, can do you just the same! Heck, down here you can even pawn your automoble and home!

But, you do give good advice!

Thanks!

Oh! I also meant to say God Bless!

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2010 at 18:19

[TUBE]jlQIDNW5nRc&feature=player_embedded#[/TUBE]

Do you ever wonder why Americans can’t pass a healthcare reform bill? Do you ever wonder how in the world George W. Bush, after lying about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and showing four years of overall boobery, was actually re-elected for a second term? There are plenty of intelligent people living in the United States of America but unfortunately, they’re are also a lot of uninformed and easily manipulated toy soldiers. This clip shows how debate on healthcare degenerated into religious, racial, xenophobic nonsense that includes the IRS, global warming, the end of America, abortion and more. Groups of people who called themselves “Tea Baggers” passionately united against Obama’s plans in protests across the country - problem is none of them really knew why they were there. They were only told they had to be. If there was ever a downside to democracy, undoubtedly the best form of government ever invented, this is it.

This is what the Tea Party Movement is all about: ignorance, stupidity, foolishness...

Let me remind everyone, THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT ARE CONSERVATIVES WITHOUT A COLLEGE EDUCATION. This means, they are mostly high school grads, and most likely lower middle class. These are the people that Obama is trying to help, why do people protest and vote against their own interests? Glenn Beck, and others who manipulate them and make millions off of them.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2010 at 19:27

TGS, in a moment of inspiration, wrote the following;

"Let me remind everyone, THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT ARE CONSERVATIVES WITHOUT A COLLEGE EDUCATION. This means, they are mostly high school grads, and most likely lower middle class. These are the people that Obama is trying to help, why do people protest and vote against their own interests? Glenn Beck, and others who manipulate them and make millions off of them."

Gee, I did not know that a survey was conducted at "Tea party" meetings that covered the educational attainments of those in attendance? But, perhaps there was one?

So, I would have to guess that TGS with his great educational attainments has to look down upon those who have not acheived his desired level?

TGS, at what educational level will you have anything in common with what has been called for many years "The common man?" Derision of those people with less education than you might well have obtained, might well be called nicely as "snobbery?"

Are you a "snob?"

Please see! http://www.answers.com/topic/snob

"n.
1.One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.

2.One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

[Earlier snob, cobbler, lower-class person, person who aspires to social prominence.]"

Please see if you belong in the above definition(s)?

I am reasonably sure you do not!

My regards as always,

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2010 at 22:26

Very rare

Originally posted by opuslola

Gee, I did not know that a survey was conducted at "Tea party" meetings that covered the educational attainments of those in attendance? But, perhaps there was one?

yes, there was one, but I wouldnt expect you to know about it.

Originally posted by opuslola

So, I would have to guess that TGS with his great educational attainments has to look down upon those who have not acheived his desired level?

No, I'm not looking down upon them, I'm calling them out. If they want to protest, let them do it on their own and about something they KNOW and CARE about, not be manipulated and told what to do by Fox News, corporations, and greedy tv anchors and radio speakers.

Dont let these people, who are ignorant about what they are protesting, ruin such a good thing for tens of millions of people, including themselves!

Originally posted by opuslola

TGS, at what educational level will you have anything in common with what has been called for many years "The common man?" Derision of those people with less education than you might well have obtained, might well be called nicely as "snobbery?"

Are you a "snob?"

Please see! http://www.answers.com/topic/snob

"n.
1.One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.

2.One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

[Earlier snob, cobbler, lower-class person, person who aspires to social prominence.]"

Please see if you belong in the above definition(s)?

I am reasonably sure you do not!

My regards as always,

Oh, here we go again with this "elitist" crap. I work hard and I'm educated because I want to be, thats a GOOD thing, its not a bad thing, and I am proud of it, and yes, ITS PEOPLE LIKE US, THE EDUCATED, WHO EVENTUALLY COME TO POWER OR MAKE MONEY OR ARE SUCCESSFUL.

But the difference between me and you is that I WANT TO USE MY EDUCATED TO HELP PEOPLE, whereas you only want to make yourself rich and want to shaft those less educated and less fortunate than you. Whose the better person?

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 10:26

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Here is some info about the movie Idiocracy (which is a really good movie):http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

A narrator ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Earl_Mann&action=edit&redlink=1 - Earl Mann )
explains that in modern society, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection - natural selection has become indifferent toward
intelligence, so that in a society in which intelligence is
systematically debased, stupid people easily out-breed the intelligent,
creating, over the course of five centuries, an irredeemably
dysfunctional society. Consequently, the children of the educated elites
are drowned in a sea of sexually promiscuous, illiterate, alcoholic,
degenerate peers.

Dear TGS, yes the above words of Earl Mann, exactly reflects the basic concepts of "Progressiveism", that is reproduction and genetic control over the "un-washed masses1" All great "Progressives" it seems shared this unique view of both thmeselves and of mankind!"

And yes I see by your post that "alcohol" still must be stopped!

Hitler, Marx, Engels, Stalin, both Rooseveldt's, Mussolini, W. Wilson, etc., actually believed in "Man and Superman!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era
"When Democrat Woodrow Wilson was elected President with a Democratic Congress in 1912 he implemented a series of progressive policies. In 1913, the Sixteenth Amendment was ratified, and the income tax was instituted in the United States. Wilson resolved the longstanding debates over tariffs and antitrust, and created the Federal Reserve, a complex business-government partnership that to this day dominates the financial world.[22]"

http://www.search.com/reference/Progressive_Era

Take a look at some of the most well known "Progressives" at the above site! I am sure some of these people are amongst your favorites?

William Jennings Bryan, Nebraska
Herbert Hoover, Washington
Robert LaFollette, Wisconsin
Franklin D. Roosevelt, New York
Theodore Roosevelt, New York City
William Howard Taft, Washington
Woodrow Wilson, Princeton NJ
Andrew Carnegie
John Dewey
Henry Ford
George Cardinal Mundelein
John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
Charles Beard

Of course the above is merely a few out of many!

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 11:38

RUSH LIMBAUGH SAYS THAT HE WILL MOVE TO COSTA RICA IF HEALTH CARE PASSES.... IN COSTA RICA THEY HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

So Rush Limbaugh has http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/09/limbaugh-exile-health-care/ - threatened to move to Costa Rica if health care reform passes.

But Costa Rica? Really?

This is a country where the American-style health care reform that Rush would be so desperately fleeing is considered nothing short of criminally inadequate. In Costa Rica, they've got constitutionally-guaranteed cradle-to-grave socialized medicine. Not just single-payer, mind you; I'm talking real British-style socialized health care, the kind where your doctor works directly for the government.

It's interesting, too, that Rush seems to suffer from the delusion that he's going to somehow escape the clutches of those Costa Rican death panels. (There must be death panels. After all: he's assured us, loudly and often, that wherever there's socialized medicine, there are death panels.)

Costa Ricans have a 97% literacy rate -- the highest in the world. College is free at the state-run universities, which are some of the best in Latin America. Any kid who gets the grades gets to go, regardless of whether or not her family can afford it. You can get a PhD entirely on the government dime.

Not to mention that, even though the average Costa Rican speaks passable English, they'd probably choose rebut Rush Spanish, which he'd have to learn. What would his anti-immigrant, anti-Spanish language listeners say if they found out that El Rushbo had picked up the lingo of those dirty brown people he's taught them to hate so much?

And it gets worse. Costa Rica does not have a military. (OK, it's got a plane and a handful of Jeeps and a couple of dozen guys in green uniforms who patrol the airport in San Jose. In other words: a single unit of the capitol city's police department probably has more firepower than the whole Costa Rican military does.) For Rush, this is nothing short of a manhood issue. What kind of red-blooded American male affiliates himself with any country that doesn't have any penetrative capability whatsoever? That's never invaded anybody -- in fact, never wanted to invade anybody? And worse: one that was so wussy that it actually put a "no military" clause into its Constitution?

I mean: what would his listeners say?

Then there's the economy, which includes lots and lots of co-ops: coffee and fruit growers' co-ops, arts co-ops that get generous government subsidies, tourism co-ops that run rustic lodges in the jungles, educational co-ops that run schools, women's co-ops that market crafts, local food co-ops that furnish the grocery stores in the outback. And, as we all know, "co-op" is just another word for "socialism."

And then there's the greenie thing. The New Economics Foundation ranked Costa Rica as the greenest country in the world. It's also on track to become the world's first carbon neutral country by 2021. The country also ranked third in the world, and first in the Americas, in the 2010 Environmental Performance Index. A full 25% of Costa Rica's territory is locked up in national parks, out of the clutches of Rush's developer friends. The country's commitment to sustainability is so bone-deep that global warming deniers like Rush have a very rough time finding people to talk to at dinner parties. Hope he's not planning to hobnob much with the local gentry.

Finally, Costa Rica has a unicameral legislature and well over a dozen political parties, including several that have the word "socialist" or "communist" in the title. Yes, that's right: Rush is talking about moving to a country where avowed socialists and communists are actually allowed to participate freely in the political process -- a choice that we can only conclude must make him some kind of commie sympathizer.

Choosing Costa Rica as an escape hatch -- even in an off-the-cuff remark -- reveals far more about Rush's real values and priorities than he probably wants us to see. Given the choice, even he would rather live in a country where there's a strong social contract that guarantees economic opportunity, ensures fairness, protects the environment, and invests richly in the future of its own people.

Having done far more than his share to ensure that America can no longer be that country, he's ready to jet off and make a new start in a place where the progressive spirit is still alive and well and creating a strong, prosperous, future-oriented nation. As Brian said: if Rush goes through with this, we promise to line up at the airport to see him off, waving signs saying "Admit it. We were right. You were wrong. Progressivism works -- or you wouldn't be leaving."

Costa Rica: Pura vida -- home of the good life. And now also the last refuge of the world's biggest hypocrite.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010031009/limbaugh-endorses-socialist-paradise

WHEN WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WAKE UP AND UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE BEING USED BY THESE VILE CREATURES WHO CARE NOTHING FOR THEM, BUT ONLY TO MAKE THEMSELVES RICH AND THEIR EXPENSE!

get educated people! read! research! keep yourself informed! dont simply do as you are told!

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 11:43

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 15:03

I would hope that you read this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Costa_Rica

Where you will quickly see that all is not well in Costa Rica! Inflation is over 10%, the infrastructure is falling apart, amongst other things. And,it seems nasty and powerful American corporations are taking advantage of the low wages paid there to place their manufacturing facilities, which they of course, moved from the USA!

Without tourism, the entire enchilada will go bad! And, if the economy of the USA goes from bad to worse, then tourism will also go into the tank!

The following site is part of an advertising plan for persons who might want to retire in Costa Rica, so read it with some caution/

http://www.internationalliving.com/Countries/Costa-Rica/Health-Care

You will notice that "Private healthcare" is advertised also! I am pretty sure Rush can afford it? Otherwise,he too would be tied up in long waits and red-tape!

This site, which is also connected to "move to Costa Rica" advice, should also be read; http://www.costarica.com/retirement/cost-of-living/health-care/

From the above we read; "The cost to affiliate with CCSS is approximately 10 to 11.5% of your income..." Thus, if you care to retire in Costa Rica based upon an income of $100,000 per annum, then you will probably have to pay about $10,000 per annum for it! But, don't worry, you might well have to wait a while for service and put up with a lot of bureacratic "red-tape", but it only will cost you about $833.00 per month!

Hey, is this really considered "free health-care?"

But, El Rushbo, will not have to worry about this payment! When and if he needs "private" healthcare, he literally has hundreds of thousands of dollars available for what ever he needs in Costa Rica, and a private jet plane to take him back to the good old USA if he wants!

I would like to ask many of you that if you had a taxable income in Costa Rica of $40,000 per annum, then you would have to pay only $4,000 or so dollars for it! Or about $333.00 per month! A good deal, no? So what if they are too busy to see you! So, what if it hurts really bad! So, what if you have to wait hours just going through the "red-tape!" Remember it's "free!" Well, almost!

Oh, concerning Costa Rica's "energy independance!", you must have noticed at the first site, that all of their energy is produced via Hydro-electic means, meaning large "Dams" blocking numerous rivers and flooding thousands or hundreds of thousands of acres of land! The good old USA could also produce a lot more energy from "Hydro-electric" sources only if one could get a "government permit" to build one! And, as most of you know, that gentle "Green Movement", here in the USA, will howl like a pack of wolves if anyone tried to do so today! But, Costa Rica, which is the "envy" of many "Greens", seems to have had a "carte blanche" to build just as many of them as needed, without "public outcry!" Wow!

I wonder what will happen in Costa Rica when they have dammed all of their damn valleys? Will they be forced by the "Greens" to build "Geo-thermal" plants, or, God forgive "coal fired plants!"

Please TGS, go an "bark up another tree!" Or better yet, please quit pissing upon this one? Hey, thats not a tree, its my leg! Laugh!

A little "Research" is everything! Please try it sometime?

Regards,

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 15:36

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

[TUBE]jlQIDNW5nRc&feature=player_embedded#[/TUBE]

Do you ever wonder why Americans can’t pass a healthcare reform bill? Do
you ever wonder how in the world George W. Bush, after lying about
weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and showing four years of overall
boobery, was actually re-elected for a second term? There are plenty of
intelligent people living in the United States of America but
unfortunately, they’re are also a lot of uninformed and easily
manipulated toy soldiers. This clip shows how debate on healthcare
degenerated into religious, racial, xenophobic nonsense that includes
the IRS, global warming, the end of America, abortion and more. Groups
of people who called themselves “Tea Baggers” passionately united
against Obama’s plans in protests across the country - problem is none
of them really knew why they were there. They were only told they had to
be. If there was ever a downside to democracy, undoubtedly the best
form of government ever invented, this is it.

This is what the Tea Party Movement is all about: ignorance, stupidity, foolishness...Let me remind everyone, THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT ARE CONSERVATIVES WITHOUT A COLLEGE EDUCATION. This means, they are mostly high school grads, and most likely lower middle class. These are the people that Obama is trying to help, why do people protest and vote against their own interests? Glenn Beck, and others who manipulate them and make millions off of them.

Gee, the VID is made and supported by a group called "The New Left Media!" Wow, who woulda thunk it? I must realize that since they call themselves "New Left" that they are "non-partisan", and thus came to the "tea party" to support their preconceived ideas.

I would suppose that if the "New Left" had a big rally in DC, and a news man or woman from the "New Right" came and interviewed the participants, we might have a similar result?

No, I will not assume it, I would expect it! Maybe the would ask the participants at the "New Left" rally to name ten presidents of the USA? Or ask them to define "Progressive?" and "Conservative?"

What entertainment!

Regards,

Oh! I meant to ask, as dumb high school educated conservatives, just what kind of income allows them to drive or fly to Washington, DC, just to attend a rally, and feel that they are "good" Americans? You must even have noticed that some of them were retired? Do you believe that big evil corporations paid their way?

The only group or groups who pay people to attend rallys, as far as I know, that have been proven, are "left wing" supporters, or Democrats!

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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 15:56

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

[TUBE]jlQIDNW5nRc&feature=player_embedded#[/TUBE]

Do you ever wonder why Americans can’t pass a healthcare reform bill? Do
you ever wonder how in the world George W. Bush, after lying about
weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and showing four years of overall
boobery, was actually re-elected for a second term? There are plenty of
intelligent people living in the United States of America but
unfortunately, they’re are also a lot of uninformed and easily
manipulated toy soldiers. This clip shows how debate on healthcare
degenerated into religious, racial, xenophobic nonsense that includes
the IRS, global warming, the end of America, abortion and more. Groups
of people who called themselves “Tea Baggers” passionately united
against Obama’s plans in protests across the country - problem is none
of them really knew why they were there. They were only told they had to
be. If there was ever a downside to democracy, undoubtedly the best
form of government ever invented, this is it.

This is what the Tea Party Movement is all about: ignorance, stupidity, foolishness...Let me remind everyone, THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT ARE CONSERVATIVES WITHOUT A COLLEGE EDUCATION. This means, they are mostly high school grads, and most likely lower middle class. These are the people that Obama is trying to help, why do people protest and vote against their own interests? Glenn Beck, and others who manipulate them and make millions off of them.

I agree there are aspects of this movement I don’t care for, especially the turn or burn, repent crowd. There are things I do agree but I need time to examine what they stand for and not to paint them all with a brush and make statements they are this or that. I believe you are making an assumption based on your own bias and no doubt many do not have college degrees but that is not everything. I have known my share of people with PHDs who were fools. I don’t like the disrespect for any President but I saw a lot of negative things about Bush, I did not like him either. Funny, Obama is not a Muslim but he background was Muslim. What church does he attend? Have you heard the sermons by his pastor?
Manipulation- you don’t think the left is not also guilty of this? I also listen to NPR, Stephanie Miller, as well as Savage Nation, Laurie Roth, coast to coast am (take with a grain). There was a local liberal I use to listen to but he was knocked off the air.
It is still their First Amendment Right but do you want to take this away? Do you oppose the First Amendment and why? You have that right, afterall, it is protected by the First Amendment.

I had an off topic question for you TGS- have you ever heard of an Iranian author names Ibn Warraq who wrote “Defending the West.” Please just yes or no!! Anything else will be deleted since it is not part of the topic, I was curious. It would be a good thread though

beralism & atheism linked to higher IQ's

overall, I think this is a very arrogant attitude.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 17:16

@ Opuslola, YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT! Costa Rica is a developing country, NO ONE DENIES THAT.... the point that article is making is that Limbaugh said he would move to Costa Rica if Health Care Reform passed in this country, YET COSTA RICA IS A SOCIALIST COUNTRY.

Regarding the video: are you trying to say that the video is doctored? IS THIS FOOTAGE NOT REAL? Who cares who filmed it, their stupidity or ignorance remains. I thought the questions regarding the czar's were hilarious!

Everything seems to go over your head... Confused

@Eaglecap: name one liberal pundit that "manipulates" democrats/liberals? And dont say Olberman, he barely influences anyone.

What you guys are afraid to admit is that we make our decisions and conclusions based on research and knowledge, where as conservatives tend to rely on faith... We dont need anyone to manipulate us because we know better than that for the most part.

This is one reason why conservatives are able to coordinate so much better, because they have people telling them what to do from the top down, and they have Fox News to tell them. Liberals do not have this phenomenon.

Originally posted by eaglecap

I had an off topic question for you TGS- have you ever heard of an Iranian author names Ibn Warraq who wrote “Defending the West.” Please just yes or no!! Anything else will be deleted since it is not part of the topic, I was curious. It would be a good thread though

No, I do not know of any Iranian authors by the name of Ibn Warraq. Ibn Warraq is not even an Iranian name. Do you mean the Indian/Pakistani guy?

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2010 at 17:42

Above you wrote; "@ Opuslola, YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MISSED THE POINT! Costa Rica is a developing country, NO ONE DENIES THAT.... the point that article is making is that Limbaugh said he would move to Costa Rica if Health Care Reform passed in this country, YET COSTA RICA IS A SOCIALIST COUNTRY.

Regarding the video: are you trying to say that the video is doctored? IS THIS FOOTAGE NOT REAL? Who cares who filmed it, their stupidity or ignorance remains. I thought the questions regarding the czar's were hilarious!

Everything seems to go over your head..."

Yeah, I am seven feet six inches tall! Almost everthing "goes over my head1" laugh! But TGS, and I am getting tired of placing the letter "G" for "Great" in your name, because it seems you must have failed "reading comprehension?" or you might well have caught my words above?

"Gee, the VID is made and supported by a group called "The New Left Media!" Wow, who woulda thunk it? I must realize that since they call themselves "New Left" that they are "non-partisan", and thus came to the "tea party" to support their preconceived ideas.

I would suppose that if the "New Left" had a big rally in DC, and a news man or woman from the "New Right" came and interviewed the participants, we might have a similar result?"

Do you "comprehend" now? Do you believe you only viewed "Un-edited" video? Are you that stupid? If not, then you know that any three or five minute video, (originally consisting of hours of tape) can be edited to make a point for or against a side!

Secondly, these are every day normal Americans who, most likely, have never been video-taped and interviewed by a so called "newsman!" Perhaps you have and are ready for what ever questions are asked, but not the average person!

As a matter of fact, I would suspect that every one there expected to be interviewed only by news-persons favorable to their side!

There you are, happy and excited, and suddenly a camera and a new-person with a microphone starts asking questions! Would you also "choke?"

You really do not know, until you become the subject!

I've seen it, when even so called "polished" politicans "step on their penis!" Laugh!

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2010 at 07:56

As regards posts made by TGS indicating that higher IQ's vote Democrat, that is an "urban legend", or more correctly an "Urban myth creation" that has existed for a long time.

Please see this from an old post on this very site;

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_voter_iq.htm#note

Like a lot of the ideas that TGS spouts here, it is mostly propaganda, inspired by the Left, and deciminated my the Left!

And, if it is believed by the Left, then they show themselves to be "elitists", "racists", and "regionalists!"

Oh hell, this is the entire post!

"Bryan
Members Profile
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Shogun

Joined: Aug-02-2004
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Posts: 241 Post Options
Post Reply
Quote Bryan
Report Post Quote Reply Posted: Feb-09-2005 at 12:25
Have you ever seen the websites showing that the information about the average state IQ and the way the states voted was actually a hoax? There's actually quite a few. Here are a few.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_voter_iq.htm#note
http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/stateiq.asp
http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/o...1%26cname=Media"

You will note that the above post was in Feb.,of 2005!

Regards,

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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2010 at 11:54

I am not sure and Iran has many ethnic groups but I read he was Iranian but maybe his family came from outside of Iran.

Some states have really good plans like Washington State; it is paid by a sin tax on tobacco and alcohol. The plan has various private carriers and it is supplemented by the state. You pay according to your income and the co-payments depend on the health insurance you pick. It is a good idea and I support this but not Fed control. Read the Tenth Amendment, it is a violation of state rights. The idea that it will be illegal for me not to have it is also unconstitutional. There will be challenges to it on the basis of freedom of religion. Obama has excluded the Amish and Christian Scientist from it but I am sure there will be other challenges.

I suggest looking up the case about the THE SCHECHTER BROTHERS and how FDR's regulation were in excess of Congressional power under the commerce clause of the Constitution. The edict by FDR violated their Jewish Kosher laws so they won and the US government lost. Could Federal control over healthcare also be challenged under the same clause? Time will tell.

We need change but who were pay for it? How will this impact businesses and employment? The tax will cut back on profit and force some companies to lay off, in a time when jobs are a premium.

I am not sure what the solution is but it is not Obama care.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2010 at 14:26

Regarding my previous statement concerning "lawsuits!" as they are concerned with health care;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems

"Malpractice litigation
The extra cost of malpractice lawsuits are insignificant proportions of health spending in both the U.S. (0.46%) and Canada (0.27%). In Canada the total cost of settlements, legal fees, and insurance comes to $4 per person each year, but in the United States it is $16.[99] Average payouts to American plaintiffs were $265,103, while payouts to Canadian plaintiffs were somewhat higher, averaging $309,417.[100] However, malpractice suits are far more common in the U.S., with 350% more suits filed each year per person.[99] While malpractice costs are significantly higher in the U.S., they make up only a small proportion of total medical spending. The total cost of defending and settling malpractice lawsuits in the U.S. in 2001 was approximately $6.5 billion, or 0.46% of total health spending.[99] Critics say that defensive medicine consumes up to 9% of American healthcare expenses.[101][102] In the same year in Canada, the total burden of malpractice suits was $237 million, or 0.27% of total health spending.[99]"

Thus defensive medicine "consumes up to 9% of American health care expenese", in Canada it only consumes 0.27% of Canadian health care expemses!

Duh! It's the lawyers! Perhaps Shakespeare had it correct, E.g. "first, kill all of the lawyers!"

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2010 at 15:20

Next, since the second term used in the title of this series of posting is the word "atheism", I just wondered why no one, not even the instigator of this section, has mentioned it?

I have but a little story to say about "religious" organizations,which are mostly feared like a bad nightmare by the "progressive" and "liberal" sections of America, and how they managed to do things that our "all powerful federal government" could not do!

I need only point you to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina! While my extended family and I rode out this monster hurricane in my home near the ocean, we were well prepared, and we had provisions for a three or more day ordeal, when we were assured Federal aid would be available. But, after three days the only "Federal Aid" we were to see, was the construction of a band of concertina wire (barbed wire) along the railroad tracks behind my home, and the concentration of armed troops guarding the openings in the wire!

We soon found out that we were considered to live in a "Dead Zone!", and no! aid would be soon forthcoming! All slavation existed "North of the Railroad!" We were even informed by the "Federal Troops" lining the barbed wire railroad, that the troops had been told that "everyone South of the tracks, were either dead, or diseased!"

Wow! What a wake up call from our government, that was just here to "help us!" We were told, that if we left, we would not be allowed to return to our own homes until Federal Authorities told us we could! Since I was somewhat better armed than the troops manning the line, I merely laughed at them! How dare any Army toops deny me the right to enter and leave my own home whenever I chose to do so!

For those of you who live in nations where the above actions can happen almost anytime, I will tell you that it mostly does not happen in my part of the USA, in any event! I could not be mad at the troops since I knew they were only following orders! And, I also knew that very few of them would really interfere, if and when I chose to leave and then return!

But, to make a long story short, I would just like to say, that "without" the actions of a bunch of Protestant and Baptist, and other demominations (outside of the Roman Catholic Church or the Church of England and its American counterpart, and Jewish Charities, and Moslim Charities, etc.), we would have had problems in the weeks following the storm!

Note, we had "no electricity, no water, no ice, no police presence, and looting happened way to often!" And the last two items, I.e. "no police" and "looting" was the major reason that I decided to stay and keep my home and neighborhood safe!

Thus, after the storm, and the implementation of the "barbed wire", etc., we often depended upon one or the other of "faith based" groups, who gave up their time, their money, and followed the tenants of their faith, which was "to help others in need!" Since there existed no Roman Catholic's performing these acts of charity, nor no Jewish Charities having a presence, and of course no Muslim Charities, or Hindu, or Buddist Charities, or "Pick one from column 1", then we were able to make do, without "any" Federal Aid! Thus, there were "no" Federal or State" places to obtain food, etc.!

Thus, we owe a great deal to those religious organizations which most "progressives" and "Liberals" and all "socialists" and "facists and "communists", fear the most!

The groups that did the most good for the victims of Hurrican Katriana, were those who were members of "conservative", "faith based", "Christians!", and no one else!

So, take your pick? Pick the "government" who did little or nothing for weeks, or pick your radical Christian neighbors from hundreds of miles away who never asked for your religious feelings, nor tried to "preach" to anyone, but who did, what they believed God told them to do, that is "Help one another!" A very "Christian" attitude!

Take this post as you will!

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Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2010 at 18:50

Originally posted by opuslola

Since there existed no Roman Catholic's performing these acts of charity, nor no Jewish Charities having a presence, and of course no Muslim Charities, or Hindu, or Buddist Charities, or "Pick one from column 1", then we were able to make do, without "any" Federal Aid! Thus, there were "no" Federal or State" places to obtain food, etc.!

Any chance that Catholic, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist organizations contributed and were visible relative to their percentage of the local population?

Originally posted by opuslola

Take this post as you will!

The assetion that only evangelical Christian charities are in action and that catholics, Buddhists, Muslims etc and the government do nothing is about as objective as.....

"Atheists have higher IQs than religous believers."

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2010 at 09:46

Comprehensive health care reform will cost the federal government $940 billion over a ten-year period, but will increase revenue and cut other costs by a greater amount, leading to a reduction of $130 billion in the federal deficit over the same period, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office, a Democratic source tells HuffPost. It will cut the deficit by $1.2 trillion over the next ten years.

The source said it also extends Medicare's solvency by at least 9 years and reduces the rate of its growth by 1.4 percent, while closing the doughnut hole for seniors, meaning there will no longer be a gap in coverage of medication. The CBO also estimated it would extend coverage to 32 million additional people.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/cbo-score-on-health-care_n_502543.html?ref=twitter

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2010 at 09:47

The Second Bill of Rights

The Second Bill of Rights was a proposal made by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States - United States President http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt - Franklin D. Roosevelt during his http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_Union_Address - State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944 to suggest that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_rights - bill of rights . Roosevelt did not argue for any change to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution - United States Constitution ; he argued that the second bill of rights was to be implemented politically, not by federal judges. Roosevelt's stated justification was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the Constitution and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights - Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of_happiness - pursuit of happiness ." Roosevelt's remedy was to create an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:

A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment - job with a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage - living wage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29 - Freedom from unfair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition - competition and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly - monopolies
A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home - home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_care - Medical care
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education - Education
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation - Recreation

Roosevelt stated that having these rights would guarantee American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security - security , and that America's place in the world depended upon how far these and similar rights had been carried into practice. Later in the 1970s, Czech jurist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Vasak - Karel Vasak would categorize these as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_generations_of_human_rights#Second-generation_human_rights - ‘second generation’ rights in his theory of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_generations_of_human_rights - three generations of human rights .

Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2010 at 10:01

The "second Bill of Rights" was advanced by the Democratic Party in the 1970s and 1980s as well. Funding those "rights" inevitably requires various wealth re-distibution schemes that deteriorate into socialism.

In the end, there is not that much extra wealth to redistribute and socialism inhibits the creation of new wealth. The only countries that can afford those "rights" are oil funded Gulf Arab nations.

With the exception of medical care, those concepts cannot be "rights" in the USA.

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2010 at 10:14

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

The Second Bill of Rights

The Second Bill of Rights was a proposal made by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States - United States President http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt - Franklin D. Roosevelt during his http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_the_Union_Address - State of the
Union Address on January 11, 1944 to suggest that the nation had
come to recognize, and should now implement, a second http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_rights - bill of rights . Roosevelt did not argue for any change to
the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution - United States Constitution ; he
argued that the second bill of rights was to be implemented politically,
not by federal judges. Roosevelt's stated justification was that the
"political rights" guaranteed by the Constitution and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights - Bill of Rights had "proved
inadequate to assure us equality in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pursuit_of_happiness - pursuit of happiness ." Roosevelt's
remedy was to create an "economic bill of rights" which would
guarantee:

A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment - job with a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage - living
wage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_%28political%29 - Freedom from unfair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition - competition
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly - monopolies
A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home - home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_care - Medical care
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education - Education
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation - Recreation

Roosevelt stated that having these rights would guarantee American http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security - security ,
and that America's place in the world depended upon how far these and
similar rights had been carried into practice. Later in the 1970s, Czech
jurist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_Vasak - Karel Vasak would categorize these as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_generations_of_human_rights#Second-generation_human_rights - ‘second generation’ rights
in his theory of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_generations_of_human_rights - three generations of human
rights .

Interesting and thanks for posting this. I never heard of this but it would be interesting to look at. I do believe in a social safety net for people who are not able to find work, who cannot work, too old, etc. But, I don't believe in supporting lazy people who don't want to work. Over the years I have met people like this and some, I knew of, collected support and secretly worked under the table, it is called fraud.

When it comes to rights though I believe no one owes me anything but in a civil society helps those who are having a hard time. When it comes to Obama care my question is who will pay for it?

How many businesses will lay off people or not hire new employees once they face the Obama care tax. Companies are out for profit and if they have to pay another tax it could force some to lay off. Also taxes force them to raise their prices which could force more companies to outsource or insource jobs. I believe the biggest worry, in our country, is not healthcare but the economy and jobs.
How many pages are in the Obama care plan? Can you really say one can know what is in the whole package? (average American) Even many of our representatives don't know, they should know since they represent us. How can they not know the details of a Bill that will have such an impact on the American people, good or bad?

I have only read small bits of it online and I would love to see healthcare. I knew of someone who died of cancer because they did not have medical insurance. But, if they had checked with Washington State they had an good state sponsored alternative called GUA. The state would have paid for his treatment but sadly he did not know this and died at 19 or 20. The cancer hit him quick and he died but he no doubt had it a while. My ex-girlfriends mother died from Cancer suddenly but the state took care of all the costs.

I think this applies because certain elite think the masses are too stupid to take care of themselves. Labeling conservatives as having a lower IQ is very arrogant and a bit of a supremist attitude. New word- Conservatvophobic

The nanny state needs to meet all our needs! Afterall, any intelligent person should know this!! Since most conservatives don't agree with this they are deemed less intelligent. Education is empty if it is not intertwined with wisdom. There are plenty of fools who are both educated and not out there.

Speaking of work I need to get back to it.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2010 at 18:37

While I doubt the following is a real site, I would like to show it here since in most appearences it really shows my opinion of the President and his administration!

So, here goes!

"IACOCCA SPEAKS OUT ON OBAMA

IACOCCA SPEAKS OUT ON OBAMA

Just as true today as it was when his book first came out.

He was, and still is, a brilliant businessman!

Often we need to be reminded of Iacocca's words.

Remember Lee Iacocca, the man who rescued Chrysler Corporation from its death throes? He's now 82 years old and has a new book, 'Where Have All The Leaders Gone?'.

Lee Iacocca Says:

'Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage with this so called president? We should be screaming bloody murder! We've got a gang of tax cheating clueless leftists trying to steer our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even run a ridiculous cash-for-clunkers program without losing $26 billion of the taxpayers' money, much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, 'trust me the economy is getting better.'

Better? You've got to be kidding. This is America , not the damned, 'Titanic'. I'll give you a sound bite: 'Throw all the Democrats out along with Obama!'

You might think I'm getting senile, that I've gone off my rocker, and maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country anymore.

The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs.. While we're fiddling in Afghanistan , Iran is completing their nuclear bombs and missiles and nobody seems to know what to do. And the liberal press is waving 'pom-poms' instead of asking hard questions. That's not the promise of the ' America ' my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough. How about you?

I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have. The Biggest 'C' is Crisis! (Iacocca elaborates on nine C's of leadership, with crisis being the first.)

Leaders are made, not born. Leadership is forged in times of crises. It's easy to sit there with thumb up your butt and talk theory. Or send someone else's kids off to war when you've never seen a battlefield yourself. It's another thing to lead when your world comes tumbling down.

On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. A hell of a mess, so here's where we stand.

We're immersed in a bloody war now with no plan for winning and no plan for leaving. But our soldiers are dying daily.

We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the world, and it's getting worse every day!

We've lost the manufacturing edge to Asia , while our once-great companies are getting slaughtered by health care costs.

Gas prices are going to skyrock again, and nobody in power has a lucid plan to open drilling to solve the problem. This country has the largest oil reserves in the WORLD, and we cannot drill for it because the politicians have been bought by the flea-hugging environmentalists.

Our schools are in a complete disaster because of the teachers union.

Our borders are like sieves and they want to give all illegals amnesty and free healthcare.

The middle class is being squeezed to death every day.

These are times that cry out for leadership.

But when you look around, you've got to ask: 'Where have all the leaders gone?' Where are the curious, creative communicators? Where are the people of character, courage, conviction, omnipotence, and common sense? I may be a sucker for alliteration, but I think you get the point.

Name me a leader who has a better idea for homeland security than making us take off our shoes in airports and throw away our shampoo?

We've spent billions of dollars building a huge new bureaucracy, and all we know how to do is react to things that have already happened.

Everyone's hunkering down, fingers crossed, hoping the government will make it better for them. Now, that's just crazy. Deal with life.

Name me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing. Who would have believed that there could ever be a time when 'The Big Three' referred to Japanese car companies? How did this happen, and more important, look what Obama did about it!

Name me a government leader who can articulate a plan for paying down the debit, or solving theenergy crisis, or managing the health care problem. The silence is deafening. But these are the crises that are eating away at our country and milking the middle class dry.

I have news for the Chicago gangsters in Congress. We didn't elect you to turn this country into a losing European Socialist state. What is everybody so afraid of? That some bonehead on NBC or CNN news will call them a name? Give me a break. Why don't you guys show some spine for a change?

Had Enough? Hey, I'm not trying to be the voice of gloom and doom here. I'm trying to light a fire. I'm speaking out because I have hope - I believe in America . In my lifetime, I've had the privilege of living through some of America 's greatest moments. I've also experienced some of our worst crises: The 'Great Depression,' 'World War II,' the 'Korean War,' the 'Kennedy Assassination,' the 'Vietnam War,' the 1970's oil crisis, and the struggles of recent years since 9/11.

Make your own contribution by sending this to everyone you know and care about. It's our country, folks, and it's our future. Our future is at stake!!

***********************************

LET'S GET THE MUSLIM ROOKIE OUT OF THE WHITEHOUSE!!!"

OK, I will not really go with the term "Muslim Rookie!"

Regards,

Ron

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2010 at 22:26

These people are sheep, everything they are saying is exactly alike, its obvious they are being brainwashed by the narrative spewed by Fox "News" and the Republican Party, two of the most fascist organizations in the United States.

[TUBE]pilG7PCV448&feature=player_embedded#[/TUBE]

EDUCATED YOURSELVES! EVEN IF YOU WANT TO BE AGAINST HEALTH CARE, DONT BE DUMB ABOUT IT, KNOW YOUR REASONS AND KNOW THE FACTS!

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2010 at 23:01

Tea Baggers insult Congressmen, call them faggots and Niggers

Teabaggers: "Barney, You Faggot!"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/S6UsDT5cRWI/AAAAAAAAuxM/2nEd5fAH3ls/s1600-h/BarneyFrank.jpg">

At http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/king-again-calls-upon-americans-to-jam-the-capitol-audio.php - the behest of wingnut Rep. Steve King (R-IA), teabaggers are flooding the office buildings of Congress today. And things are getting http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/menacing.php?ref=fpblg - very ugly .

Things seem to be getting pretty heated in the Capitol with crowds of anti-Reform/Tea Party activists going through the halls shouting slogans and epithets at Democratic members of Congress. As our Brian Beutler reports, a few moments ago in Longworth office building, a group swarmed a very calm looking Henry Waxman, as he got on the elevator, with shouts of "Kill the bill!" "You liar! You crook!" Not long before, Rep. Barney Frank got an uglier version of the treatment. Just after Frank rounded a corner to leave the building, an older protestor yelled "Barney, you faggot." The surrounding crowd of protestors then erupted in laughter. At one point, Capitol police officer threatened to throw a group of protesters out of the building but that only seemed to inflame them more; and apparently none were ejected.

None were ejected. After calling a member a "faggot" they still got to stay. Unbelievable.

UPDATE: The teabaggers also called Rep. John Lewis (D-GA) http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/88041-cbc-member-says-health-bill-protesters-called-rep-lewis-the-n-word - the n-word .

Rep. Andre Carson (D-Ind.) claimed Saturday that healthcare protesters at the Capitol directed racial epithets at Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) as he walked outside. Carson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus along with Lewis, told The Hill that protesters called Lewis the N-word. Tea Party protesters held a rally outside the Capitol on Saturday, which included speeches by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) and actor Jon Voight, and then proceeded into the halls to lobby members at the 11th hour.Lewis was one of the leaders of the civil rights movement alongside Martin Luther King. Jr.

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2010/03/teabaggers-barney-you-faggot.html

Tea Partiers Heckle Dems With Racist, Homophobic Slurs

Tea Partiers protesting the health care bill in Washington hurled racist and homophobic epithets at two Democratic congressmen and spat on a black Democratic legislator prior to President Obama's speech before House Dems on Saturday afternoon.

Rep. John Lewis was called "the N-word" when he was on the floor of the House earlier today by "a heckler from the Tea Party, a protester," Kristie Greco, a press secretary for House Majority Whip James Clyburn, said this afternoon. Another protester http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0310/Cleaver_spat_on.html - spat at Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, another black Democrat, as he was walking from the Longsworth House building to attend Obama's speech. In a separate incident, Rep. Barney Frank, who is openly gay, was http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0310/Tensions_run_high_outside_Democratic_meeting.html - called "faggot," also as he was leaving the Longsworth building.

...

Clyburn suggested, however, that he and his colleagues were not surprised that such racist sentiments were behind some of the public outrage against the Democratic health care bill.

"A lot of us have been saying for a long time that much of this is not about health care at all. And I think that a lot of people out there today demonstrated this," Clyburn said at the Capitol Vistors Center after the speech, where protesters continued to shout "vote no" at the passing members of Congress. Rather, he explained, the protesters' opposition was in reaction "to extend a basic fundamental right to people who are less powerful."

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/03/tea-partiers-heckle-dems-racist-homophobic-slurs

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2010 at 14:49

Wikipedia says that the meaning of "faggot" is this!;

"The word meaning "bundle of sticks" is ultimately derived, via Old French and Italian, from Latin fascis (also the origin of the word fascism).[7]"

So, it is most obvious that those hecklers (if there really were any?) were merely calling the congressman a "facist!"

Makes sense to me!!

You really should stop "flaming" this list TGS! It might well be called "trolling?"

But, who am I to complain?

The "truth" sometimes hurts in a "free" society? Thus if you were a "straight" congressman, would you be harmed materially or morally or intellectually if a bunch of agitators called you a "Woman lover?", or a "Straight?"

All they did, it seems, is call the congressman a "Man lover!", as he readily has admitted that he is! Or am I wrong? Has he not admitted that he is "GAY?" (homosexual!)?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me!"

A good thought, and one you should well consider, as should the good "gay" (Happy?) congressman?

I really think that it is his "lisp" that bothers me the most?

Regards,

-------------
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 09:29

THE GOP AND THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT - CHANGE OR MOVE INTO THE DUST BIN OF HISTORY

An open letter to conservatives

March 22, 2010, 3:16PM

Dear Conservative Americans,
The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see now. You've lost me and you've lost http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/party-id.php - most of America . Because I believe having responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some advice and an invitation.
First, the invitation: Come back to us.
Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/33866.html - a foundation of cowardice : fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.
Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum has become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some expamples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.
If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:
Hypocrisy
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/round-up-or-down-house-members-react-to-dems-knew-plan-to-pass-health-care-reform.php?ref=fpa - You can't flip out -- and http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/17/bachmann-media-treason/ - threaten impeachment - when Dems use a prlimentary procedure (deem and pass) that you used repeatedly ( http://blog.american.com/?p=11467 - more than 35 times in just one session and http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joe_conason/2010/03/17/ornstein/index.html - more than 100 times in all!), that's http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/03/self-executing-rules-are-common.php - centuries old and which the http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_arms_race_of_rules.html - courts have supported . Especially when your leaders http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/17/pence-self-executing-unconstitutional/ - admit it all.
You can't http://www.theliberaloc.com/2010/02/11/rachel-maddow-on-gop-hypocrisy-on-stimulus/ - vote and scream against the stimulus package and then take credit for the good it's done in your own district (happily handing out enormous checks representing money that you voted against, is especially ugly) -- http://thinkprogress.org/touting-recovery-opposed/ - 114 of you (at last count) did just that -- and it's even worse when you http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022522.php - secretly beg for more .
You can't http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/78155-voinovich-blasts-mcconnell-gop-foes-of-deficit-commission - fight against your own ideas just because the Dem president endorses your proposal .
You can't http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/28/senate-gop-paygo/ - call for a pay-as-you-go policy, and then vote against your own ideas.
http://crooksandliars.com/jason-sigger/republican-flip-flops-abound - Are they "unlawful enemy combatants" or are they "prisoners of war" at Gitmo? You can't have it both ways.
You can't carry on about http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Antisocialist_Bachmann_got_250k_in_federal_farm_subsidies.html# - the evils of government spending when your family has accepted more than a quarter-million dollars in government handouts .
You can't http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/senate-republicans-slam-dems-for-refusing-to-meet----after-they-themselves-refused-to-meet.php?ref=fpb - refuse to go to a scheduled meeting, to which you were invited, and then blame the Dems because they didn't meet with you.
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/18/teleprompter-cpac/ - You can't rail against using teleprompters http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/18/teleprompter-cpac/ - while using http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/18/teleprompter-cpac/ - teleprompters. http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2010/02/the_cpac_telepr.html - Repeatedly .
You can't http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/23/fiorina-bailout-flip-flop/ - rail against the bank bailouts when you supported them as they were happening .
You can't be http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/02/mitt-flips-on-immigration/ - for immigration reform, then against it .
You can't http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannyn-moore/granny-palin-overcomes-he_b_470297.html - enjoy socialized medicine while condemning it .
You can't http://wonkette.com/413753/black-man-puts-his-feet-on-desk - flip out when the black president puts his feet on the presidential desk when you were silent about white presidents doing the same. http://wonkette.com/413753/black-man-puts-his-feet-on-desk - Bush . http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/have-you-see-the-petty-blogs-of-people-criticizing-the-president-for-putting-his-feet-up-on-the-pres/question-861209/?page=4&link=ibaf&imgurl=http://www.markcurtismedia.com/files/imagecache/540wide/files/Ford%2520Feet%2520on%2520Desk.jpg - Ford .
You can't http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/05/steele-obama-guantanamo/ - complain that the president hasn't closed Gitmo yet when you've campaigned to keep Gitmo open .
You can't flip out when the black president bows to foreign dignitaries, as appropriate for their culture, when you were silent when the white presidents did the same. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://liberalvaluesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bush-bowed.jpg&imgrefurl=http://liberalvaluesblog.com/2009/04/06/bowing-down-to-king-abdullah/&usg=__F2x4UlChvrQKrp4OhhhUVq9w8eY=&h=381&w=450&sz=31&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=hxb7htYSjtwlXM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbush%2Bbowing%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1 - Bush . http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/redeye-royalty/bow.jpg - Nixon. http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/redeye-royalty/2009-11-17-Obamabow1.jpg - Ike. You didn't even make a peep when Bush http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/redeye-royalty/bush%20saudi%20king%203.jpg.jpeg - held hands and http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://arizona.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bf80c53ef01157015e7ff970b-500wi&imgrefurl=http://arizona.typepad.com/blog/2009/04/the-latest-faux-obama-scandal-on-faux-news-the-bow.html&usg=__klyGI-Vz_uXKP9P6rcJ-MFdhi6I=&h=311&w=373&sz=82&hl=en&start=6&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=m4JbqSJSCIfr_M:&tbnh=102&tbnw=122&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpresident%2Bbowing%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1 - kissed (on the mouth) leaders of countries that are not on "kissing terms" with the US.
You can't complain that the http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/02/shoe-bomber-richard-reid_n_446355.html - undies bomber was read his Miranda rights under Obama when the shoe bomber was read his Miranda rights under Bush and you remained silent. (And, no, Newt -- http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/gingrich-shoe-bomber-richard-reid-was-an-american-citizen-so-it-was-ok-to-mirandize-him.php - the shoe bomber was http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/gingrich-shoe-bomber-richard-reid-was-an-american-citizen-so-it-was-ok-to-mirandize-him.php - not http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/gingrich-shoe-bomber-richard-reid-was-an-american-citizen-so-it-was-ok-to-mirandize-him.php - a US citizen either, so there is no difference .)
You can't attack the Dem president for http://thinkprogress.org/2009/12/29/rove-72-hours/ - not personally* publicly condemning a terrorist event for 72 hours when you said nothing about the Rep president http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/29/bush-waited-nine-days-to_n_406307.html - waiting 6 days in http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_12/021691.php - an eerily similar incident (and, even then, he didn't issue any condemnation). *Obama administration did the day of the event.
You can't throw a http://wolf.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=34&parentid=6&sectiontree=6,34&itemid=1504 - hissy fit , http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35025 - sound alarms and http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/12/former-gitmo-jihadis-behind-northwest-flight-bombing-.html - cry that Obama freed Gitmo prisoners who later helped plan the Christmas Day undie bombing, when -- in fact -- only one former Gitmo detainee, http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_12/021682.php - released by Dick Cheney and George W. Bush, helped to plan the failed attack.
You can't http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_12/021680.php - condemn blaming the Republican president for an attempted terror attack on his watch, then blame the Dem president for an attemted terror attack on his .
You can't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks - mount a boycott against singers who say they're ashamed of the president for starting a war , but remain silent when a http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/toxoplasmosis-by-digby-gosh-it-seems.html - nother singer says he's ashamed of the president and falsely calls him a Moaist who makes him want to throw up and says he ought to be in jail .
You can't http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/boehner-obamas-health-care-proposal-is-too-short.php?ref=fpblg - cry that the health care bill is too long, then cry that it's too short.
You can't http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/09/18/grassley-mandate/ - support the individual mandate for health insurance, then call it unconstitutional when Dems propose it and campaign against your own ideas.
You can't http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/boehner-how-dare-obama-televise-the-health-care-debate-after-i-demanded-he-televise-the-health-care.php?ref=fpb - demand television coverage, then whine about it when you get it . http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/10/kyl-closed-doors/ - Repeatedly .
You can't http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/jon-stewart-busts-rudy-giulianis-flip-f - praise criminal trials in US courts for terror suspects under a Rep president, then call it "treasonous" under a Dem president.
You can't http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022467.php - propose ideas to create jobs, and then work against them when the Dems put http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022467.php - your ideas http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022467.php - in a bill .
You can't be http://rightsfield.com/2007/01/10/multiple-choice-mitt/ - both pro-choice and anti-choice .
You can't http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_01/021840.php - damn someone for failing to pay $900 in taxes when you've paid nearly $20,000 in http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_01/021840.php - IRS fine http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_01/021840.php - s .
You can't http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2009/03/convenient_patr.html - condemn critizising the president when US troops are in harms way, then http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/republican-hypocrisy-on-t_b_407459.html - attack the president when US troops are in harms way , the only difference being the president's party affiliation (and, by the way, armed conflict does NOT remove our right and our duty as Americans to speak up).
You can't be http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/02/21/pawlenty-climate-disaster/ - both for cap-and-trade policy and against it .
You can't http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/02/23/vitter-jobs-vote/ - vote to block debate on a bill, then bemoan the lack of 'open debate' .
If you push anti-gay legislation and make anti-gay speeches, you should probably take a pass on having gay sex, regardless of whether it's http://rawstory.com/exclusives/byrne/schrock_resigns_gay_phone_sex_tapes_830.htm - 2004 or http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/09/local/la-me-ashburn9-2010mar09 - 2010 . This is true, too, if you're taking GOP money and giving http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=536 - anti-gay rants on CNN . Taking right-wing money and GOP favors to write http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/02/man-called-jeff.html - anti-gay stories for news sites while working as a gay prostitute, doubles down on both the hypocrisy and the prostitution. This is especially true if you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard - claim your anti-gay stand is God's stand , too.
When you chair the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, you can't send http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092901574_2.html - sexy emails to 16-year-old boys (illegal anyway, but you made it hypocritical as well).
You can't criticize Dems for not doing something you didn't do while you held power over the past 16 years, especially when the http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/chris-van-hollen-points-out-republicans-hy - Dems have done more in one year than you did in 16.
You can't decry http://mediamatters.org/items/200901080016?f=s_search - "name calling" when you've been the most consistent and outrageous at it. And the http://mediamatters.org/blog/200904300048 - most vile .
You can't spend more than 40 years http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/opinion/12krugman.html - hating, cutting and trying to kill Medicare, and then pretend to be the defenders of Medicare
You can't praise the http://mediamatters.org/research/201003190036 - Congressional Budget Office when it's analysis produces numbers that fit your political agenda, then claim it's unreliable when it comes up with numbers that don't.
You can't vote for X under a Republican president, then vote against X under a Democratic president. http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/02/bunning-unemployment-2003/ - Either you support X or you don't. And it makes it worse when you change your position merely for the sake obstructionism.
You can't call a reconcilliation out of bounds when http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/09/34-gop-reconciliation/ - you used it repeatedly .
You can't http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/roskam_runs_taxpayer-funded_campaign-style_ads_on.php?ref=fpb - spend tax-payer money on ads against spending tax-payer money .
You can't http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/02/16/health-care-republicans-oppose-their-own-idea/ - condemn individual health insurance mandates in a Dem bill, when the madates were http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/02/16/health-care-republicans-oppose-their-own-idea/ - your idea http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/02/16/health-care-republicans-oppose-their-own-idea/ - .
You can't demand everyone listen to the generals when they say what fits your agenda, and then http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/16/conservatives-petraeus-listen-now/ - ignore them when they don't .
You can't whine that it's unfair when people accuse you of exploiting racism for political gain, when your party's former leader http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2005%2F07%2F13%2FAR2005071302342.html - admits you've been doing it for decades .
You can't portray yourself as http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002463/ - fighting terrorists when you http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/peter-kings-secret-terrorism-loving-history - openly and passionately support terrorists.
You can't http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/03/joke-of-the-day.php - complain about a lack of bipartisanship when you've http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/03/half-parliament-worse-none - routinely obstructed for the sake of political gain -- threatening to http://politics.theatlantic.com/2010/02/bipartisanship_fail_whos_to_blame.php - filibuster at least 100 pieces of legislation in one session , far more than any other since the procedural tactic was invented -- and admitted it. Some http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/16/alexander-obstruction-reconciliation/ - admissions are unintentional , others are made http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/22/coburn-love-gridlock/ - proudly . This is especially true when the http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/business/economy/20leonhardt.html - bill is the result of decades of compromise between the two parties and is filled with your own ideas .
You can't http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/03/justice-department-on-so-called-al-qaeda-seven-we-will-not-participate-in-an-attempt-to-drag-peoples-names-through.html - question the loyalty of Department of Justice lawyers when you didn't object when your own Republican president appointed them .
You can't preach and try to legislate "Family Values" when you: take http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/13/AR2010031301999.html - nude hot tub dips with teenagers (and pay them hush money); http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25073.html - cheat on your wife with a secret lover and lie about it to the world; http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/022857.php - cheat with a staffer's wife (and pay them off with a new job); http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2010/election_2010_senate_elections/louisiana/election_2010_louisiana_senate - pay hookers for sex while wearing a diaper and cheating on your wife; or just enjoying an http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25067.html - old fashioned non-kinky cheating on your wife ; try to have http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2009/0108/ex-senator-larry-craig-gives-up-appeal-of-bathroom-sting - gay sex in a public toilet ; authorize http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/iraq/abughraib/151108.pdf - the rape of children in Iraqi prisons to coherce their parents into providing information; seek, look at or have http://www.armchairsubversive.org/ - sex with children ; replace http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/georgia_county_elects_republican_who_slept_with_mother_in_law.php?ref=fpb - a guy who cheats on his wife with a guy who cheats on his pregnant wife with his wife's mother ;
Hyperbole
You really need to dissassociate with those among you who:
assert that people making a http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/02/08/mcmahon-ends/ - quarter-million dollars a year can barely make ends meet or that http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022277.php - $1 million "isn't a lot of money" ;
say that http://mediamatters.org/items/200903040026 - "Comrade" Obama is a "Bolshevik" who is "taking cues from Lenin" ;
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/wrongful-shaming-by-digby-sarah-palin.html - ignore the many times your buddies use a term that offends you and complain only when a Dem says it ;
liken political opponents to http://mediamatters.org/clips/200902190014 - murderers, rapists, and "this Muslim guy" that "offed his wife's head" or call then " http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/michelle-bachmann-gives-voice-rights - un-American" ;
say Obama " http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200903230043 - wants his plan to fail...so that he can make the case for bank nationalization and vindicate his dream of a socialist economy" ;
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/02/limbaugh-mullah-pelosi/ - equate putting the good of the people ahead of your personal fortunes with terrorism ;
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/ed-koch-most-mulims-arent-terrorists----but-there-are-hundreds-of-millions-who-are.php?ref=fpblg - smear an entire major religion with the actions of a few fanatics ;
say that the president wants to http://minnesotaindependent.com/55035/bachmann-obama-wants-to-annihilate-us - "annihilate us" ;
compare health care reform with the bombing of http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/beck-health-care-reform-will-affect - Pearl Harbor , a http://mediamatters.org/research/201001300005 - Bolshevik plot the http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/glenn-beck-health-care-reform-just-9 - attack on 9/11, or http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/sigh_3.php?ref=fpblg - reviving the ghosts of communist dictators (update: it's also not http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/maxing_out_the_rhetoric.php - Armageddon );
equate our http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/10/gop-senate-nazi-stem-cell/ - disease-fighting stem cell research with "what the Nazis did" ;
call a bill passed by the majority of both houses of Congress, by members of Congress each elected by a majority in their districts, an http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/unconscionable_abuse_of_power.php?ref=fpblg - unconscionable abuse of power , a http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/unconscionable_abuse_of_power.php?ref=fpblg - violation of the presidential oath or http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/steele-health-cares-passage-represents-the-end-of-representative-government.php?ref=fpa - "the end of representative government" ;
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/did-a-house-member-shout-baby-killer-at-stupak-video.php?ref=fpb - shout "baby killer" at a member of Congress on the floor of the House, especially one who so fought against abortion rights that he nearly killed health care reform (in fact, a little decorum, a little respect for our national institutions and the people and the values they represent, would be refreshing -- cut out the http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/gop-rep-wilson-yells-out_n_281480.html - shouting , the http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/boehner-can-you-say-this-bill-was-written-openly-hell-no-you-cant-video.php?ref=fpb - swearing and the http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3699-2004Jun24.html - obscenities );
prove your machismo by c http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/23/boehner-summit-party-crash/ - laiming your going to "crash a party" to which you're officially invited ;
claim that Obama is pushing America's http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/25/missile-defense-logo-conspiracy/ - "submission to Shariah" ;
http://pr.thinkprogress.org/2010/03/pr20100304/ - question the patriotism of people upholding cherished American values and the rule of law;
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022521.php - claim the president is making us less safe without a hint of evidence ;
call a majority vote the http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_02/022610.php - "tyranny of the minority," even if you meant to call it tyranny of the majority -- it's democracy, not tyranny;
call the president's support of a criminal trial for a terror suspect http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/jon-stewart-busts-rudy-giulianis-flip-f - "treasonous" (especially when you supported the same thing when the president shared your party);
http://filterednews.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/its-all-about-the-benjamins-a-look-at-the-neumann-campaign-for-governor-of-wisconsin/ - call the Pope the anti-Christ ;
assert that the constitutionally mandated census is http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/09/beck-census-slavery/ - an attempt to enslave us ;
accuse opponents of being backed by http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/anti-reid-ad-arab-slave-bosses-support-reid-video.php?ref=fpblg - Arab slave-drivers , http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/graham-pelosi-has-dems-all-liquored-up-on-sake-on-a-suicide-run.php?ref=fpblg - drunk and suicidal ;
equate http://mediamatters.org/items/200901270022?f=s_search - family planing with eugenics or Nazism ;
accuse the president of http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/25/missile-defense-logo-conspiracy/ - changing the missile defense program's logo to match his campaign logo and reflect what you say is his secret Muslim identity ;
accuse political opponents of being http://mediamatters.org/items/200904010031?f=s_search - totalitarians , http://mediamatters.org/items/200903240037?f=s_search - socialists , http://mediamatters.org/items/200901140008?f=s_search - communists , http://mediamatters.org/items/200903300033?f=s_search - fascists , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l-JbSF_mLo - Marxists ; http://mediamatters.org/items/200903110032?f=s_search - terrorist sympathizers , http://mediamatters.org/items/200903190028?f=s_search - McCarthy-like , http://mediamatters.org/items/200902130019?f=s_search - Nazis or http://mediamatters.org/items/200903310037?f=s_search - drug pushers ; and
advocate a traitors act like http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/gov-rick-perry-texas-coul_n_187490.html - seccession , http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/orly_taitz_seems_to_suggest_call_to_arms_against_o.php?ref=fpblg - violent revolution , http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909290042 - military coup or http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/virginian-at-obama-rally-if-health-care-passes-there-will-be-civil-war.php?ref=fpb - civil war (just so we're clear: sedition is a bad thing).
History
If you're going to use words like http://mediamatters.org/items/200903030038?f=s_search - socialism , http://mediamatters.org/items/200902090036?f=s_search - communism and http://mediamatters.org/items/200902060027?f=s_search - fascism , you must have at least a http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2009/03/a-political-primer-for-our-fri.php - basic understanding of what those words mean (hint: they're NOT http://del1357.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/phoenix_tea_party_05.jpg - synonymous !)
You can't http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/12/texas-education-board-cuts-thomas-jefferson-out-of-its-textbooks/ - cut a leading Founding Father out the history books because you've decided you don't like his ideas.
You cant repeatedly assert that the president refuses to say the word "terrorism" or say we're at war with terror when we have an awful lot of videotape showing him http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002463/ - repeatedly assailing terrorism and using those exact words.
If you're going to invoke the names of historical figures, it does not serve you well to http://mediamatters.org/items/200903190028?f=s_search - whitewash them. Especially http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911240056 - this one .
You can't just http://mediamatters.org/research/201003180008 - pretend historical events didn't happen in an effort to make a political opponent look dishonest or to make your side look better. Especially http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/nancy-pfotenhauer/health-care-reform-does-not-increase-premiums-and-/ - these events. (And, no, http://mediamatters.org/blog/201003170072 - repeating it doesn't make it better.)
You can't say things that are simply and demonstrably false: health care reform will not http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/28/nancy-pfotenhauer/health-care-reform-does-not-increase-premiums-and-/ - push people out of their private insurance and into a government-run program http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politifact.com%2Ftruth-o-meter%2Farticle%2F2010%2Fmar%2F19%2Ftop-5-lies-about-health-care%2F - ; health care reform (which contains a good many of your ideas and very few from the Left) is a long way from http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/rep-nunes-dems-will-lay-the-cornerstone-of-their-socialist-utopia-with-health-care.php?ref=fpb - "socialist utopia" ; health care reform is not http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/28317/ - "reparations" ; nor does health care reform create http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/dick-morris-keeps-zombie-lies-alive - "death panels" .
Hatred
You have to condemn those among you who:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/tea-partiers-call-lewis-nr-frank-ft-at-capitol-hill-protest.php?ref=fpb - call members of Congress n*gger and f*ggot ;
elected leaders who say http://thinkprogress.org/2010/01/25/santa-clara-racist/ - "I'm a proud racist" ;
state that http://mediamatters.org/clips/200907170011 - America has been built by white people ;
say that http://mediamatters.org/clips/200901050010 - poor people are poor because they're rotten people , call them http://mediamatters.org/clips/200906100015 - "parasitic garbage" or say they http://mediamatters.org/clips/200906150013 - shouldn't be allowed to vote ;
call women http://mediamatters.org/clips/200901120013 - bitches and http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911230018 - prostitutes just because you don't like their politics ( http://mediamatters.org/clips/200907310026 - re - http://mediamatters.org/clips/200905200043 - pea - http://mediamatters.org/clips/200911100015 - ted - http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200911230008 - ly );
assert that the http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910150027 - women who are serving our nation in uniform are hookers ;
http://republicanshateamerica.blogspot.com/2008/11/republicans-react-to-obamas.html - mock and celebrate the death of a grandmother because you disagree with her son's politics;
declare that those who disagree with you are shown by that disagreement to be not just http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/becks-eliminationist-tirade-against - "Marxist radicals" but also monsters and a deadly disease killing the nation (this would fit in the hyperbole and history categories, too);
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/rga-head-apologizes-for-paterson-joke.php?ref=fpblg - joke about blindness;
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/sick-mind-dam-riehl - advocate euthanizing the wife of your political opponent ;
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/man-with-parkinsons-on-health-care-protest-showdown-i-embody-the-controversy-1.php?ref=fpb - taunt people with incurable, life-threatening diseases -- especially if you do it on a http://crooksandliars.com/2006/10/25/olbermann-gives-us-the-visual-to-limbaughs-attack-on-michael-j-fox - syndicated broadcast ;
equate gay love with bestiality -- involving http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/jd-hayworth-compares-gay-marriage-bestiali - horses or http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-04-23-santorum-excerpt_x.htm - dogs or http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43048-2004Jul11.html - turtles or http://mediamatters.org/clips/200905260078 - ducks -- or http://mediamatters.org/clips/200905070024 - polygamy, child molestation, pedophilia ;
casually assume that only white males http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2010/01/worst_persons_13.html - look "like a real American" ;
assert presidential power to http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1870319,00.html - authorize torture , http://blog.reidreport.com/2010/02/the-insanity-of-john-yoo/ - torture a child by having his testacles crushed in front of his parents to get them to talk, order the massacre of a civilian village and launch a nuclear attack without the consent of Congress ;
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/right-wing-attacks-11-year-old - attack children whose mothers have died ;
call people http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907280008 - racists without producing a shred of evidence that they've said or done something that would even smell like racism -- same for invoking racially charged http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907230040 - "dog whistle" words ( http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/28317/ - repeatedly );
condemn http://mediamatters.org/research/201003120055 - the one thing that every major religion agrees on ;
complain that we no longer employ the http://rawstory.com/2010/02/naacp-tancredo-remarks-outrageous-insidious-politics-denigration/ - tactics we once used to disenfranchise millions of Americans because of their race;
blame the victims of http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/pat-robertson-haitians-swore-a-pact-to-the-devil.php?ref=fpblg - natural disasters and http://www.au.org/media/church-and-state/archives/2001/10/backlash-to-bigo.html - terrorist attacks for their suffering and losses;
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/22/king-justifies-irs-terrorism/ - celebrate violence http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/22/king-justifies-irs-terrorism/ - , http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/02/irs-union-chief-slams-cpac-ers-austin-plane-crash-joke.php?ref=fpblg - joke about violence, http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/democracy-now-white-power-usa-rise-right-w - prepare for violence or use violent http://mediamatters.org/items/200903020010?f=s_search - imagery , http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/17/cpac-pelosi-pinata/ - "fun" political violence, http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/tea-party-speaker-wants-sen-patty-mu - hints of violence, http://mediamatters.org/research/201002040060 - threats of violence ( http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/20/code-red-gun/ - this one is rather explicit), http://mediamatters.org/rd?to=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redstate.com%2Ferick%2F2009%2F03%2F31%2Fat-what-point-do-people-revolt%2F - suggestions of violence or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller - actual violence (and, really, http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/scott-brown-i-hop-rally-shove-curling-iron - suggesting anal rape wth a hot piece of metal is beyond the pale); and
incite insurrection telling people to http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/28/werthmann-nazism-socialism/ - get their guns ready for a "bloody battle" with the president of the United States.
Oh, and I'm not alone: One of your http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/07/28/powell_gop_should_respond_to_limbaughs_outrageous_comments.html - most respected and decorated leaders agrees with me.
So, dear conservatives, get to work. Drain the swamp of the conspiracy nuts, the bold-faced liars undeterred by demonstrable facts, the overt hypocrisy and the hatred. Then offer us a calm, responsible, grownup agenda based on your values and your vision for America. We may or may not agree with your values and vision, but we'll certainly welcome you back to the American mainstream with open arms. We need you.
(Anticipating your initial response: No there is nothing that even comes close to this level of wingnuttery on the American Left.)
Written by Russell King
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/a/m/americandad/2010/03/an-open-letter-to-conservative.php?ref=recdc

An Absence of Class
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By http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/bobherbert/index.html?inline=nyt-per - BOB HERBERT

Published: March 22, 2010

Some of the images from the run-up to Sunday’s landmark health care vote in the House of Representatives should be seared into the nation’s consciousness. We are so far, in so many ways, from being a class act.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/opinion/23herbert.html?ref=opinion#secondParagraph - Skip to next paragraph

Bob Herbert

A group of lowlifes at a Tea Party rally in Columbus, Ohio, last week taunted and humiliated a man who was sitting on the ground with a sign that said he had Parkinson’s disease. The disgusting behavior was captured on a widely circulated videotape. One of the Tea Party protesters leaned over the man and sneered: “If you’re looking for a handout, you’re in the wrong end of town.”
Another threw money at the man, first one bill and then another, and said contemptuously, “I’ll pay for this guy. Here you go. Start a pot.”
In Washington on Saturday, opponents of the health care legislation spit on a black congressman and shouted racial slurs at two others, including John Lewis, one of the great heroes of the civil rights movement. Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat who is chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, was taunted because he is gay.
At some point, we have to decide as a country that we just can’t have this: We can’t allow ourselves to remain silent as foaming-at-the-mouth protesters scream the vilest of epithets at members of Congress — epithets that The Times will not allow me to repeat here.
It is 2010, which means it is way past time for decent Americans to rise up against this kind of garbage, to fight it aggressively wherever it appears. And it is time for every American of good will to hold the Republican Party accountable for its role in tolerating, shielding and encouraging foul, mean-spirited and bigoted behavior in its ranks and among its strongest supporters.
For decades the G.O.P. has been the party of fear, ignorance and divisiveness. All you have to do is look around to see what it has done to the country. The greatest economic inequality since the Gilded Age was followed by a near-total collapse of the overall economy. As a country, we have a monumental mess on our hands and still the Republicans have nothing to offer in the way of a remedy except more tax cuts for the rich.
This is the party of trickle down and weapons of mass destruction, the party of birthers and death-panel lunatics. This is the party that genuflects at the altar of right-wing talk radio, with its insane, nauseating, nonstop commitment to hatred and bigotry.
Glenn Beck of Fox News has called President Obama a “racist” and asserted that he “has exposed himself as a guy, over and over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture.”
Mike Huckabee, a former Republican presidential candidate, has said of Mr. Obama’s economic policies: “Lenin and Stalin would love this stuff.”
The G.O.P. poisons the political atmosphere and then has the gall to complain about an absence of bipartisanship.
The toxic clouds that are the inevitable result of the fear and the bitter conflicts so relentlessly stoked by the Republican Party — think blacks against whites, gays versus straights, and a whole range of folks against immigrants — tend to obscure the tremendous damage that the party’s policies have inflicted on the country. If people are arguing over immigrants or abortion or whether gays should be allowed to marry, they’re not calling the G.O.P. to account for (to take just one example) the horribly destructive policy of cutting taxes while the nation was fighting two wars.
If you’re all fired up about Republican-inspired tales of Democrats planning to send grandma to some death chamber, you’ll never get to the G.O.P.’s war against the right of ordinary workers to organize and negotiate in their own best interests — a war that has diminished living standards for working people for decades.
With a freer hand, the Republicans would have done more damage. George W. Bush tried to undermine Social Security. John McCain was willing to put Sarah Palin a heartbeat away from the Oval Office and thought Phil Gramm would have made a crackerjack Treasury secretary. (For those who may not remember, Mr. Gramm was a deregulation zealot who told us during the presidential campaign that we were suffering from a “mental recession.”)
A party that promotes ignorance (“Just say no to global warming”) and provides a safe house for bigotry cannot serve the best interests of our country. Back in the 1960s, John Lewis risked his life and endured savage beatings to secure fundamental rights for black Americans while right-wing Republicans like Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan were lining up with segregationist Democrats to oppose landmark civil rights legislation.
Since then, the right-wingers have taken over the G.O.P. and Mr. Lewis, now a congressman, must still endure the garbage they have wrought.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/opinion/23herbert.html?ref=opinion

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THE GOP AND THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT HAS NEVER DONE A SINGLE GOOD THING FOR AMERICA. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE FORCE FOR WAR AND TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH, IRRESPONSIBLE MANAGEMENT OF POLITICS AS WELL AS THE ECONOMY. THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS DESTROYED THIS NATION AND FOR DECADES HAS GOTTEN IN THE WAY OF ANYONE TRYING TO MAKE ANY IMPROVEMENTS OR DO DAMAGE CONTROL.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 10:37

TGS, I thought copy and pasting entire posts was not an acceptable way to do things? But, perhaps it is OK since you have done so?

Wonder rants at conservatives, and I always enjoy the comments of progressives / Marxists who constantly use perjorative terms like "Ignorant" or "Ignorance", or "racist" or "sexist" or "homo-phobic", or "undermine Social Security", or?

Well just let my use the copy and paste example found in your copy and past above;

"Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions, cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking, health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum has become irresponsible and irrational. Worse, it's tolerating, promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me provide some expamples -- by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as gotten itself stuck in a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and hatred.

If you're going to regain your stature as a party of rational, responsible people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:"

Yes, with feelings like those above, there is good reason for conservatives to "get on the band-wagon" with you and sing "Kum Bah Yah", along with Joan Baez, and Peter,Paul and Mary! Yes, peace and love! What good times those were? Yes indeed! Lots of good dope, hallucogens, lots of sex, lots of sexually transmitted diseases, defending Mao, Pol Pot, Che', Castro", etc.!

Oh, I forgot, they mostly also hated the USA!, and especially our young men and women who served and sometimes fought in Viet Nam!

Hey let's all buy a German made van, and paint flowers all over it?

Flunk out of school and get a "draft notice!", no problem just go to friendly Canada, they just seemed to love Americans there!

Let's see, I graduated High School in 1964, and finally college in 1969! So, i'd guess that you would say that I have no reason for my statements above? After all what could a conservative know about "peace and love", etc.?

If I remember correctly one slogan of our Air Force, was "Peace is our Profession!", so I'd guess that, "War was their Avocation?"

While I do not agree with your views of our current world, I do support your "Unalienable" right to speak them! And, any attempt by anyone either foreign or domestic to take away that right, would temp me to take up my "Advocation!"

Yes, these words also copy and pasted from above,(well not really) does quite well describe myself and others of like thinking, I beleve the words were; We have "become irresponsible and irrational. Worse," we have become "tolerating, promoting and celebrating" in our defense of "prejudice and hatred.!"

Yeah, I just love "tolerating, promoting and celebrating...prejudice and hatred!" Maybe there exists a church in Chicago where I can become a member and learn to "Love one another?"

It's hard for me to look at myself in a mirror!

Wait, everything in a mirror is "reversed", that must really be you in there? chuckle!

Regards,

I correctly spelled "avocation!"

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 13:21

I am not a Republican, so I will not defend them but there is hypocrisy on both sides. You cannot be human without some hypocrisy in your life.

I learned an old wise proverb, "Whenever you point the finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself.

Both parties are full of double standards if you watch current events.

Remember, to error is human!!

A higher IQ without wisdom means nothing. I have know my share of really smart friends who lacked common sense.

In a concentration camp people of faith are more likely to survive because they have hope in a Deity. I heard some of the studies of people who survived the NAZI concentration camps, not just Jews.

I wonder if these kinds of studies make some feel superior to their fellow man.

Since the Tea Party people have less of an IQ their opinions somehow does not count as much as some Atheist with a superior intellect.

Seems like the same conclusion Hitler came up with concerning the Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other unwanted groups.
It stinks of arrogance and a superiority complex in my humble opinion.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 14:17

Eaglecap, and I like what appears to be your new "Greek" looking Icon! However it could represent the national costume of numerous states in the Balkans, and surrounding area?

But, I am not really a Republican, I am first and foremost an "American!", and I have to choose from two forms of "hypocriscy!" And, in essence, it is the Repubilcan party of the last 50 years or so that most likely represents my side! Oh! Yes, I have also supported "Libertarians" in the past also, but even on the local level, I just cannot vote for a Democrat! So, locally, I ususally don't vote at all since many of the best candidates are so "named!"

The last candidate that I "really supported" on the National level was; AU-H2O-64! Laugh! But, what could I do? I wasn't even old enough to vote then! But, I did work on the campaign!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 14:47

Originally posted by opuslola

Eaglecap, and I like what appears to be your new "Greek" looking Icon! However it could represent the national costume of numerous states in the Balkans, and surrounding area?

But, I am not really a Republican, I am first and foremost an "American!", and I have to choose from two forms of "hypocriscy!" And, in essence, it is the Repubilcan party of the last 50 years or so that most likely represents my side! Oh! Yes, I have also supported "Libertarians" in the past also, but even on the local level, I just cannot vote for a Democrat! So, locally, I ususally don't vote at all since many of the best candidates are so "named!"

The last candidate that I "really supported" on the National level was; AU-H2O-64! Laugh! But, what could I do? I wasn't even old enough to vote then! But, I did work on the campaign!

Regards,

My parents were old style Republicans and I have, somewhere in storage, a Goldwater election button that had belonged to my parents. My parents loved Reagan, but I know they would have been disapointed with both Bush sr and jr if they were still alive. My father was still alive for the first year or two of Bush Sr.

My sister somehow turned liberal but that is her right, we just avoid politics.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 14:53

Originally posted by eaglecap

I am not a Republican, so I will not defend them but there is hypocrisy on both sides. You cannot be human without some hypocrisy in your life.

Yes, ofcourse, by all means, START POSTING ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS YOU CAN ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, that is, if you can find enough information.

Funny how almost every scandal we hear of taking place in Washington involves Republicans, whether its adultery, homosexuality, sexual harassment, corruption, etc... wasnt it just a few years ago that dozens of Republican's were found out to be involved in a corruption scandal?

Originally posted by eaglecap

I learned an old wise proverb, "Whenever you point the finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself.

Not all proverbs are true, and this one has many faults in its reasoning.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Both parties are full of double standards if you watch current events.

True, Democrats are dont have the "balls" to fight back against the Republicans as hard as they are fighting against rationality and knowledge.

Originally posted by eaglecap

A higher IQ without wisdom means nothing. I have know my share of really smart friends who lacked common sense.

Very true! Which is why we have so many educated Conservatives's who lack common sense!

Originally posted by eaglecap

In a concentration camp people of faith are more likely to survive because they have hope in a Deity. I heard some of the studies of people who survived the NAZI concentration camps, not just Jews.

Certainly, this is very believable and it makes a lot of sense. Those who have hope generally strive to live longer, those who see no point in continuing with their misery tend to die sooner, this makes sense.

You know, I've always wondered, why do the people with the lowest standard of living in the world today keep striving the live? I'm talking about the lowest of the low? Wow, religion is an absolutely amazing human invention, it controls people to the point that it dictates to them when they can die.

Originally posted by eaglecap

I wonder if these kinds of studies make some feel superior to their fellow man.

They certainly do, religious people often feel more superior to non-religious people, but this has nothing to do with statistics or facts, it has to do with their own delusion that they have a god on their side, and non-believers dont.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Since the Tea Party people have less of an IQ their opinions somehow does not count as much as some Atheist with a superior intellect.

OF COURSE NOT! in what world would a person with less intelligence be more reliable than someone with more intelligence? You yourself would never take financial advice from someone with no knowledge of the market, would you? You wouldnt want your children to be taught math by someone who knows nothing about math, would you?

Intelligence > ignorance. Fact. Try arguing against that one buddy. Work hard, get an education, youre likely to be successful. dont work hard, remain ignorant, work at job paying minimum wage. Thats life.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Seems like the same conclusion Hitler came up with concerning the Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other unwanted groups.
It stinks of arrogance and a superiority complex in my humble opinion.

No, not at all, Hitler thought that blue eyed blonde haired people were naturally superior to all people, it had nothing to do with level of education. Nice try, but this conservo-fascist trend of using Hitler is dying out, think of something new.

---------------------------------------------

On a separate note, a political party and movement made up of over overwhelmingly rural white people will not survive in a country that is majority urban and one which will be a majority minority nation in a few decades.

get over it, if you guys want to survive, adapt to a changing world. But you wont, and this is why progressivism ALWAYS wins out over conservatism.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 15:06

Frum: "Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us, and now we are discovering we work for Fox"

watch the video here: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201003230020

------------------------------------

THIS IS CONSERVATISM:

On the heels of health care, a new Harris poll reveals Republican attitudes about Obama: Two-thirds think he's a socialist, 57 percent a Muslim—and 24 percent say "he may be the Antichrist."

To anyone who thinks the end of the health-care vote means a return to civility, wake up.

Obama Derangement Syndrome—pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism—has infected the Republican Party. Here's new data to prove it:

67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.

The belief that Obama is a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.

57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."

These numbers all come from a brand-new Harris poll, inspired in part by my new book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0984295119/thedaibea-20/ - Wingnuts . It demonstrates the cost of the campaign of fear and hate that has been pumped up in the service of hyper-partisanship over the past 15 months. We are playing with dynamite by demonizing our president and dividing the United States in the process. What might be good for ratings is bad for the country.

The poll, which surveyed 2,230 people right at the height of the health-care reform debate, also clearly shows that education is a barrier to extremism. Respondents without a college education are vastly more likely to believe such claims, while Americans with college degrees or better are less easily duped. It's a reminder of what the 19th-century educator Horace Mann once too-loftily said: "Ignorance breeds monsters to fill up the vacancies of the soul that are unoccupied by the verities of knowledge."

The full results of the poll, which will be released in greater detail tomorrow, are even more frightening: including news that high percentages of Republicans—and Americans overall—believe that President Obama is "racist," "anti-American" "wants the terrorists to win" and "wants to turn over the sovereignty of the United States to a one-world government." The "Hatriot" belief that Obama is a "domestic enemy" as set forth in the Constitution is also widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come. It's the same claim made by Marine Lance Corporal Kody Brittingham in his http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/us/06threat.html - letter of intent to assassinate the President Obama.

This poll is the latest and most detailed evidence of the extent to which Wingnuts are hijacking our politics. It should be a wakeup call to all Americans and a collective reminder, as we move past health-care reform, that we need to stand up to extremism.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-22/scary-new-gop-poll/?cid=hp:exc

IGNORANCE IS DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY! WAKE UP! EDUCATE YOURSELF!

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 15:11

CONSERVATIVE AGENDA HAS NO APPEAL TO YOUNGER VOTERS, THEY WILL LOSE SUPPORT AS OLDER AMERICANS PASS AWAY

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 15:12

No offense but TGS you are very biased and narrow minded. Let me get back with you on these questions later and I will address them.

Seems like the same conclusion Hitler came up with concerning the Jews, Slavs, Gypsies and other unwanted groups.
It stinks of arrogance and a superiority complex in my humble opinion.

No, not at all, Hitler thought that blue eyed blonde haired people were naturally superior to all people, it had nothing to do with level of education. Nice try, but this conservo-fascist trend of using Hitler is dying out, think of something new.

I understand but such attitudes can lead the same direction. You are just blinded by your own Marxist views.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 15:14

Originally posted by eaglecap

No offense but TGS you are very biased and narrow minded. Let me get back with you on these questions later and I will address them.

On the contrary, I believe you are too narrow minded to understand what I'm saying. Its the typical conservative trend to put things into extremes, its either black or white to you, there is no grey.

Originally posted by eaglecap

I understand but such attitudes can lead the same direction. You are just blinded by your own Marxist views.

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 15:30

If you understand, then a) stop making references to Hitler, and b) me telling you that being educated is better than being ignorant WILL not lead to anything like Hitler or genocide, this is absolutely laughable! I AM MERELY STATING A FACT, THIS IS WHY WE HAVE SCHOOLS AND WHY WE SEND OUT KIDS TO THOSE SCHOOLS!

No education is very important but so is wisdom which comes usually with experience. You have the right to your own bias, we can all be a bit biased. I have known many who had little or no college but they are well read.

Hitler, you missed my point!

Speaking Democratic Scandals - When I get back we can begin with the former President clinton. Other than Fox most of the TV media sides with the liberals. It seems like a double standard where they seem to brush over many scandals by the Dems but really attack if it is a Repulican scandal.

I know you hate him but Savage is one of the few who brings up scandals by the Democrats and Repulicans.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 16:54

Yes, ofcourse, by all means, START POSTING ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS YOU CAN ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, that is, if you can find enough information

Stop acting that their poop does not stink any less than Republicans. I don't care who they are- corruption is corruption.

It really did not take long to find a reminder that the Dems are no less corrupt than the R's.

I remember some of these cases from either the TV news or talk radio.

Democrat Scandals

http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Scandals.htm - http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Scandals.htm

The above information was compiled from pure, knowledge, various news articles and http://politicalgraveyard.com/index.html

From the Gaypatriot:

The Democrats’ Bad Week Gets Worse

http://www.gaypatriot.net/category/democratic-scandals/ - http://www.gaypatriot.net/category/democratic-scandals/

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 19:56

I would, just (like TGS has tried before), to make a claim, that TGS is both "Flaming", and "Trolling" this site!

How can any of you moderaters not notice? Unless you are co-cons?

It is because of your "sympathy" with the politics of TGS, that he/she was not already placed in "Limbo!"

Shame! Shame! I wonder just what you would have done to me?

Just because many of you might well be "liberal" Democrats, does not give you the power to allow constant "copy and paste", as well as obvious one sided information, without even a warning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I appeal to Cyrus for some explanation?

This site either has to be "neutral" (as it should be) or it can disolve into "Marxism!/ Facism, etc."

If TGS could but keep his/her opinions neutral, or at least sometimes take something from the other side, I could co-exist with him or her!

Thus, I again appeal to the "moderators" to place some sanctions upon TGS?

Either you believe in "free speech" or you agree with TGS?

And, I feel I have been very fair with TGS! I have offered him every courtesy, and only replied in kind!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 20:04

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

CONSERVATIVE AGENDA HAS NO APPEAL TO YOUNGER VOTERS, THEY WILL LOSE SUPPORT AS OLDER AMERICANS PASS AWAY

Note moderators! I could well have made a big deal about the above post?

But, I did not, since I am somewhat older, and supposedly wiser than to do such!

It would be like me saying that my children had more good sense than do I?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 20:52

I am posting cited material relevant to the thread, that is not flaming. READ THE RULES. By saying that I am flaming, you are, in fact, flaming and trolling.

HERE IS A CARTOON FROM 1934, remind you of anything? (this is how backward conservative ideology is in this country)

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2010 at 20:56

By Slim Margin, Americans Support Healthcare Bill's Passage

Independents evenly split in their basic reactions, but more are "angry" than "enthusiastic"

by Lydia Saad

PRINCETON, NJ -- Nearly half of Americans give a thumbs-up to Congress' passage of a healthcare reform bill last weekend, with 49% calling it "a good thing." Republicans and Democrats have polar opposite reactions, with independents evenly split.

Overall Reaction to Passing Healthcare Bill, Among National Adults and by Party, March 2010

The findings, from a March 22 USA Today/Gallup poll conducted one day after the bill received a majority of votes in the U.S. House of Representatives, represent immediate reactions to the vote.

Americans' emotional responses to the bill's passage are more positive than negative -- with 50% enthusiastic or pleased versus 42% angry or disappointed -- and are similar to their general reactions.

Although much of the public debate over healthcare reform has been heated, barely a third of rank-and-file citizens express either enthusiasm (15%) or anger (19%) about the bill's passage. However, only Democrats show greater enthusiasm than anger. Independents are twice as likely to be angry as enthusiastic, and Republicans 10 times as likely.

Emotional Reaction to Passing Healthcare Bill, Among National Adults and by Party, March 2010

Bottom Line

Passage of healthcare reform was a clear political victory for President Obama and his allies in Congress. While it also pleases most of his Democratic base nationwide, it is met with greater ambivalence among independents and with considerable antipathy among Republicans. Whether these groups' views on the issue harden or soften in the coming months could be crucial to how healthcare reform factors into this year's midterm elections. Given that initial public reaction to Sunday's vote is more positive than http://www.gallup.com/poll/126521/Favor-Oppose-Obama-Healthcare-Plan.aspx - recent public opinion about passing a healthcare reform bill, it appears some softening has already occurred.

Survey Methods

Results are based on telephone interviews with 1,005 national adults, aged 18 and older, conducted March 22, 2010, as part of Gallup Daily tracking. For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones and cellular phones.

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

Polls conducted entirely in one day, such as this one, are subject to additional error or bias not found in polls conducted over several days.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126929/Slim-Margin-Americans-Support-Healthcare-Bill-Passage.aspx

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 08:09

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

I am posting cited material relevant to the thread, that is not flaming. READ THE RULES. By saying that I am flaming, you are, in fact, flaming and trolling.HERE IS A CARTOON FROM 1934, remind you of anything? (this is how backward conservative ideology is in this country)

Dear TGS, I do believe you were the first to hurl the "troll" and "flame" accusations at me! By merely hurling the accusations back at you is called "tit for tat!"

As regards the 1934 cartoon! Wow! I think it is great! And, as well it is still an accurate portrayal of "progressive" and "Marxist" ideology that has simmered here in the USA for quite a while, one that has again reared its ugly head in the last 10 years or so, and peaked with the election of President Obama, who has actually stated that he searched out the most revolutionary Marxists and other radicals on the Left while receiving his education. And, by the looks of his "TSARS" and other advisors, including his past and present religious advisor, he has surrounded himself with nothing but radical Marxists and "progressive radicals", whilst following the same theme seen in the 1934 illustration!

As the Reverend Al Sharpton recently said when asked if he thought Obama was a Socialist, Sharpton said in words close to these; "Yes!, he is! and so were the majority of voters who voted for him!"

Actually you can actually hear Rev. Sharpton's reply here;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/03/22/al-sharpton-american-public-overwhelmingly-socialism-when-they-elected-pr

I wonder what he would have said if he had been asked if Obama was a Marxist?

Thanks so much for the comic! I can merely change a few names and it will look perfect today!

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 10:16

Originally posted by opuslola

Dear TGS, I do believe you were the first to hurl the "troll" and "flame" accusations at me! By merely hurling the accusations back at you is called "tit for tat!"

Wow, very mature. You claim to be in your 60's, but I highly doubt it (anyone can be anything on the net, but you do not seem as if you are a senior in your 60's).

Originally posted by opuslola

As regards the 1934 cartoon! Wow! I think it is great! And, as well it is still an accurate portrayal of "progressive" and "Marxist" ideology that has simmered here in the USA for quite a while, one that has again reared its ugly head in the last 10 years or so, and peaked with the election of President Obama, who has actually stated that he searched out the most revolutionary Marxists and other radicals on the Left while receiving his education.

Wow, once again this has gone over your head. The cartoon was published when FDR was passing his New Deal set of programs, and conservatives were saying that it would destroy American, turn America into Russia, it was a plan for "elitist intellectuals to take power", etc... the same things they are saying today.

America only got better after the New Deal, showing that the conservatives were wrong back then and they were merely fear mongering. The point of the cartoon is to show that the same thing is happening now, and conservatives are once again WRONG.

Originally posted by opuslola

And, by the looks of his "TSARS" and other advisors, including his past and present religious advisor, he has surrounded himself with nothing but radical Marxists and "progressive radicals", whilst following the same theme seen in the 1934 illustration!

First of all, "Tsar" is a term introduced by the media in the 1930's and "tsars" have been appointed by every president, even Reagan. WHEN BUSH TOOK POWER IN 2001, THERE WERE 7 POSITIONS FOR "TSARS" WHEN BUSH LEFT OFFICE, THERE WERE 35 POSITIONS AND BUSH HIMSELF APPOINTED 47 "TSARS" WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE!

Under Obama there are now 38 positions and hes only appointed 8 to replace 5 from positions created by Bush and 3 for his new positions.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, EDUCATED YOURSELF!

Originally posted by opuslola

As the Reverend Al Sharpton recently said when asked if he thought Obama was a Socialist, Sharpton said in words close to these; "Yes!, he is! and so were the majority of voters who voted for him!"

Actually you can actually hear Rev. Sharpton's reply here;

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/03/22/al-sharpton-american-public-overwhelmingly-socialism-when-they-elected-pr

I wonder what he would have said if he had been asked if Obama was a Marxist?

Thanks so much for the comic! I can merely change a few names and it will look perfect today!

Obama is a Socialist, I'm a socialist, MOST EUROPEANS ARE SOCIALISTS, MOST OF OUR ALLIES ARE SOCIALISTS, EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALIST.

EVOLVE.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 15:03

Did you really mean to say "EVOLVE or DIE?" It seems that has happened to other species who failed to follow the line, it seems!

Yes, that may be why America has been first in the world since WWII,it has not been Socialist, and maybe that is why WWII happened? It was WWII that became the "only reason" America climbed out of the depression!

To quote you; "GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT, EDUCATE YOURSELF!"

Surprisingly, I am surprised you have the education and mental abilities of a 14 year old! I would have thought you much older than that? chuckle! I would have guessed you were about 25 otherwise!

Of course we all know of the great "good sense" most 25 year old kids have! Well, don't we?

But, you surely a good pawn of the "progressive socialist" movement in the US of A! Yes, I can remember when I was age 25! That was when I became a Federal Sky Marshall! "Ah yes!, I remember it well!"

Yes, I was trained and placed into commercial aircraft in regular clothes, and was ready to shoot any mad "Sky-jackers" until they were dead! If you actually know any history, you might well figure out just which "Sky-jackers" we were trained to kill?

But, I certainly appreciate your kind words, as well as your worries about my health (Evolution), and, as well, your political views!

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

PS, I guess I will again mention your closing words;

"Obama is a Socialist, I'm a socialist, MOST EUROPEANS ARE SOCIALISTS, MOST OF OUR ALLIES ARE SOCIALISTS, EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD IS SOCIALIST.
EVOLVE."

By the way, does the above fact mean that "Socialists" are "better" and "smarter", and more likely to "live" than me, and others who think as I think?

I'd bet Ann Coulter loves you as much as she loves the University in Canada, that ran her out! Of course they were trying to protect her from that "socialist" notion that dislikes "free speech!" Canada is but one of plenty of Socialist nations which have laws controlliing "freedom of speech!"

I wonder why that is?

What could it be that they are "afraid" of? Is mere "freedom" it?

I see "socialist" supression of speech often on the inter-net! And it is indeed only used against those of us who are classified as being on the "right" who receive "dire warnings", and are thus declared as "hate speakers", which I feel is much like your self, while those of your side are mostly given "free rein" to say anything you care to say!

Why do you think I have not responded (in kind) to all of your Left Wing, copy and past posts, with those from my side of the isle? And, believe me, there are plenty to choose from!

I'll tell you, it is "fear!" Fear of "Socialist" retribution!

From an old saying; "Everything is politics!" I believe Thomas Mann first said it?

But, of course, I could be wrong?

Again, my "conservative" regards,I just could not type "Liberal regards!" Laugh!

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 18:27

TGS, as a matter of fact! I would like you to watch this little video, it is entitled "A Inconvient DEBT!"

If you know anything about Economics! Watch it an learn! Please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNS8IY_Td14

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 19:14

TEA PARTIERS AND CONSERVATIVES HAVE NO RESPECT FOR DEMOCRACY OR THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. THEY ARE GOING CRAZY, THREATENING THE LIVES OF HEALTH CARE SUPPORTERS AND URGING VIOLENCE.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/24/fbi-investigating-perriello-incident-in-virginia/ - FBI investigating Perriello incident in Virginia

Posted: March 24th, 2010 01:46 PM ET

From http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-political-producer-peter-hamby/ - CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby

The FBI is investigating a 'suspicious incident' at the home of Rep. Tom Perriello's brother.

Washington (CNN) - Days after his address was posted online by a Virginia Tea Party activist, the FBI and local law enforcement officials are investigating a "suspicious incident" at the home of Rep. Tom Perriello's brother.

A line to the propane tank on his brother's gas grill had been "severed," an aide to the Democratic congressman told CNN.

"It was enough that he could smell the gas," the aide said.

The Albemarle County Fire Marshal's office confirmed they are investigating the incident - which took place in Ivy, Virginia - along with the FBI.

"While officials are not willing to characterize the exact nature of the incident because of the ongoing investigation, it did not involve an immediate threat to occupants of the residence," Lee Catlin, Community Relations Director for the Fire Marshal, told CNN. "However officials are taking the incident very seriously and conducting a vigorous investigation. Additional details will be released as the investigation continues."

Catlin said county officials joined the investigation late Tuesday after a request from the FBI.

Politico reported Monday that a Tea Party activist in Lynchburg, angry over Perriello's vote in favor of health care reform legislation, had posted the address of Perriello's brother online and encouraged other activists to "stop by" and weigh in on the bill. The activist had apparently meant to post the congressman's home address but mistakenly published his brother's.

Perriello, who represents Virginia's conservative-leaning 5th congressional district, encompassing central and southern parts of the state. He was narrowly elected to his first term in 2008 and is considered one of the most vulnerable House Democrats in 2010.

On Wednesday, Perriello's office issued the following statement:

“My number one priority right now is ensuring the safety of my brother’s family, and I am grateful to law enforcement for their excellent work. While it is too early to say anything definitive regarding political motivations behind this act, it’s never too early for political leaders to condemn threats of violence, particularly as threats to other Members of Congress and their children escalate. And so I ask every member of House and Senate leadership to state unequivocally tonight that it is never OK to harm or threaten elected officials and their families with anything more than political retribution. Here in America, we settle our political differences at the ballot box.”

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 19:19

Tea Party Freedom

http://davies.lohudblogs.com/2010/03/24/cage-fighter/"> Matt Davies

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2010 at 19:22

Opuslola, you are so delusional, misguided, and ignorant regarding the subjects you talk about that it is impossible to debate with you.

Oh, and regarding your comment about why America has been on top since WWII, maybe it was because all the other great economies in the world were destroyed and there was no one to compete with US industry? But hey, guess what? Since the UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.. got back on their feet, the US hasnt been on top any more has it? Since Regeans reforms, things have actually gotten worse for the US.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 15:12

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 15:18

I offer the offical rules for this area of discussion for our esteemed moderators to consider;

"At AE we welcome intellectual debates. The understanding of history is to a large extent an interpretation of historical facts, and we encourage those at our forums.

Unfortunately, many recent �debates� end up being nothing more than angry fights that contribute nothing to our understanding of history.

If you wish to start a new controversial topic, follow these rules:

1.     Search for an already open topic on the subject. Redundant topics will be closed as soon as the moderators identify them.
2.     Write the entry yourself. As soon as we identify a copy-and-paste job, we will close the topic.
3.     Provide evidence to support your arguments. Failure to do so may close the topic.
4.     Provide references for your quotes; at least one of them should be an online reference. Members should be able to access at least one source to immediately to assess its worth. Failure to comply with this point may close the topic.

The more inflammatory the comment, the more stringently these rules will be applied.

If one is posting a response in the thread, the same rules apply, but instead of closing the thread, one's comments may be erased by the moderator.

Thank you"

I respectfully refer the current moderators to look specifically at rude number 2., which states;

"2. Write the entry yourself. As soon as we identify a copy-and-paste job, we will close the topic."

As a great star ship captain once said "Make it so!" Laugh!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 15:30

Thanks for posting the rules, maybe now you will follow them:

1.     Search for an already open topic on the subject. Redundant topics will be closed as soon as the moderators identify them.

-done.

2.     Write the entry yourself. As soon as we identify a copy-and-paste job, we will close the topic.

- all the posts I write are my own, I'm not claiming anyone else's posts as mine.

3.     Provide evidence to support your arguments. Failure to do so may close the topic.

- I have posted numerous articles to support my claims, where is your support?

4.     Provide references for your quotes; at least one of them should be an online reference. Members should be able to access at least one source to immediately to assess its worth. Failure to comply with this point may close the topic.

-I have sourced and referenced everything.

Nice try Opuslola, but the tactics that you and your fellow conservatives are used to wont work here. Whats the problem, dont like the information thats being posted? Is that it? Is that why you're trying to shut this thread down so hard?

STOP TROLLING AND FLAMING, IF YOU WANT TO DISCUSS THE TOPIC, DISCUSS THE TOPIC, IF NOT, STOP POSTING NON-SENSE.

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 15:35

TEA PARTIERS AND CONSERVATIVES HAVE NO RESPECT FOR DEMOCRACY OR THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. THEY ARE GOING CRAZY, THREATENING THE LIVES OF HEALTH CARE SUPPORTERS AND URGING VIOLENCE.

You mean "some" so don't stero type. I do not condone violence in any case and such trouble makers need to punished by the law. You ae a self-proclaimed Marxist so do you believe in Democracy? Maybe they are only frustrated because their representatives are not listening but still violence is not the way.

I think most tea party people are embarrassed by such foolish people. But, I am afraid if Obama passes amnesty for illegals, passes some type of bill to end talk radio, and starts attacking gun rights then you might just see a full-fledged civil war in our country. I really hope not and I prefer things done peacefully but time will tell how bad it will get. I am not a soothsayer so I cannot predict the future. Maybe someone on coast to coast am can!! LOL

see- Whiskly Rebellion- this is not new!

I know 14 States have filed suit so time will tell where that goes. Rule of law is a better way to handle this vs. violence.

Humor me TGS and add something in the Americas about on the Pueblo Indian thread. I enjoy those kinds of threads more than going in political circles.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2010 at 15:45

Originally posted by eaglecap

TEA PARTIERS AND CONSERVATIVES HAVE NO RESPECT FOR DEMOCRACY OR THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. THEY ARE GOING CRAZY, THREATENING THE LIVES OF HEALTH CARE SUPPORTERS AND URGING VIOLENCE.

You mean "some" so don't stero type. I do not condone violence in any case and such trouble makers need to punished by the law.

I agree, yet no one is stepping up to tell these people to stop, to really stop. No one is telling them not to call black congressmen niggers, no one is telling them not to call gay congressmen faggots, and no one is telling them to stop with this "us vs. the government" mentality. Right wing extremists are taking over these movements, and I know that not everyone in these movements are violent, but its the select few who ruin it for everyone! Hell, not all German's were Nazi's, but they didnt need to be, because crazy right wingers had used violence to get what they wanted.

Originally posted by eaglecap

You ae a self-proclaimed Marxist so do you believe in Democracy?

Ofcourse, and I'm glad you said Marxist and not communist, communism is associated with USSR and China, which is not what Marx advocated. Marx actually believed in the democratic process and the importance of capitalism.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Maybe they are only frustrated because their representatives are not listening but still violence is not the way.

They are frustrated at their representatives, so they take it out on Democrats? Why arent they threatening their own representatives, i.e republicans?

Originally posted by eaglecap

I think most tea party people are embarrassed by such foolish people. But, I am afraid if Obama passes amnesty for illegals, passes some type of bill to end talk radio, and starts attacking gun rights then you might just see a full-fledged civil war in our country.

Seriously, is he doing any of this?

Also, regarding illegals, werent a bunch of illegals given citizenship or amnesty or something in the late 80's/90's? (I'm researching it now)

Originally posted by eaglecap

I know 14 States have filed suit so time will tell where that goes. Rule of law is a better way to handle this vs. violence.

No, 14 states have not filed suits, the Republicans running those states have filed suits, theres a difference, because many people in those states do support H.C.R. But either way, these lawsuits will be ineffective.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Apr-2010 at 19:10

Yes, Marx believed that capitalism had made producion more efficent! But, he believed that the producers, would over throw their capitalist masters, and form socialism!

"Marx felt that capitalism through industrialization had increased the productive capability of the world's economy far beyond that ever witnessed before. Never the less, he also felt that capitalism created an upper and lower class of people which would struggle against one another. Capitalism's very nature would ensure that eventually, the lower class of workers would get large enough and oppressed enough that it would overthrow the upper class thereby ending the economic system known as capitalism and ushering in the system of socialism."

And, you believe that Marx actually believed in the Democratic process? In just what type of workers democracy did he support?

Wikipedia says;

"The Marxist view is fundamentally opposed to liberal democracy believing that the capitalist state cannot be democratic by its nature, as it represents the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Marxism views liberal democracy as an unrealistic utopia. This is because they believe that in a capitalist state all "independent" media and most political parties are controlled by capitalists and one either needs large financial resources or to be supported by the bourgeoisie to win an election. Lenin (1917) believed that in a capitalist state, the system focuses on resolving disputes within the ruling bourgeoisie class and ignores the interests of the proletariat or labour class which are not represented and therefore dependent on the bourgeoisie's good will: "Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich – that is the democracy of capitalist society. If we look more closely into the machinery of capitalist democracy, we see everywhere, in the “petty” – supposedly petty – details of the suffrage (residential qualifications, exclusion of women, etc.), in the technique of the representative institutions, in the actual obstacles to the right of assembly (public buildings are not for “paupers"!), in the purely capitalist organization of the daily press, etc., etc., – we see restriction after restriction upon democracy. These restrictions, exceptions, exclusions, obstacles for the poor seem slight, especially in the eyes of one who has never known want himself and has never been in close contact with the oppressed classes in their mass life (and nine out of 10, if not 99 out of 100, bourgeois publicists and politicians come under this category); but in their sum total these restrictions exclude and squeeze out the poor from politics, from active participation in democracy.” (Lenin, State and Revolution, Chapter 5) However, most of these restrictions do not longer apply; women have the vote and there is today no property requirement."

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 15:17

Originally posted by opuslola

Yes, Marx believed that capitalism had made producion more efficent! But, he believed that the producers, would over throw their capitalist masters, and form socialism!

"Marx felt that capitalism through industrialization had increased the productive capability of the world's economy far beyond that ever witnessed before. Never the less, he also felt that capitalism created an upper and lower class of people which would struggle against one another. Capitalism's very nature would ensure that eventually, the lower class of workers would get large enough and oppressed enough that it would overthrow the upper class thereby ending the economic system known as capitalism and ushering in the system of socialism."

And its happening in every developed rich capitalist nation in the world. What he said is slowly coming true, so far peacefully and hopefully the revolution will be a peaceful one.

Originally posted by opuslola

And, you believe that Marx actually believed in the Democratic process? In just what type of workers democracy did he support?

Wikipedia says;

"The Marxist view is fundamentally opposed to liberal democracy believing that the capitalist state cannot be democratic by its nature, as it represents the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Marxism views liberal democracy as an unrealistic utopia. This is because they believe that in a capitalist state all "independent" media and most political parties are controlled by capitalists and one either needs large financial resources or to be supported by the bourgeoisie to win an election. Lenin (1917) believed that in a capitalist state, the system focuses on resolving disputes within the ruling bourgeoisie class and ignores the interests of the proletariat or labour class which are not represented and therefore dependent on the bourgeoisie's good will: "Democracy for an insignificant minority, democracy for the rich – that is the democracy of capitalist society. If we look more closely into the machinery of capitalist democracy, we see everywhere, in the “petty” – supposedly petty – details of the suffrage (residential qualifications, exclusion of women, etc.), in the technique of the representative institutions, in the actual obstacles to the right of assembly (public buildings are not for “paupers"!), in the purely capitalist organization of the daily press, etc., etc., – we see restriction after restriction upon democracy. These restrictions, exceptions, exclusions, obstacles for the poor seem slight, especially in the eyes of one who has never known want himself and has never been in close contact with the oppressed classes in their mass life (and nine out of 10, if not 99 out of 100, bourgeois publicists and politicians come under this category); but in their sum total these restrictions exclude and squeeze out the poor from politics, from active participation in democracy.” (Lenin, State and Revolution, Chapter 5) However, most of these restrictions do not longer apply; women have the vote and there is today no property requirement."

First of all, you have no idea what you are talking about, second of all, that big chunk of paragraph you posted is mostly LENIN'S point of view which is different from Marx's point of view.

Here is the reason why you do not know what you are talking about:

LIBERAL DEMOCRACY IS DIFFERENT FROM SOCIAL DEMOCRACY. MARX WAS A CRITIC OF LIBERAL DEMOCRACY, BUT NOT A CRITIC OF DEMOCRACY ITSELF. ALTHOUGH MANY IDEA'S WERE BEYOND MARX'S ABILITY TO COMPREHEND AS HE WROTE HIS WORKS IN THE 19TH CENTURY, SEVERAL OTHER FORMS OF DEMOCRACY BASED ON MARX'S IDEA HAVE ARISEN.

Now, let me tell you what the difference is:

Democratic socialism is a description used by various http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism - socialist movements and organizations, to emphasize the democratic character of their political orientation. The term is sometimes used synonymously with ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy - social democracy ', but many self-identified democratic socialists oppose social democracy, seeing it as capitalist.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism#cite_note-sdvrds-0 - [1]}

Social democracy is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ideology - political ideology of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre-left - centre-left on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum - classic political spectrum . Social democracy by tradition is a form of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary - evolutionary http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformism - reformist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism - socialism .^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-0 - [1]}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-0 - Social democracy promotes the creation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_democracy - economic democracy as a means to secure workers' rights.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-2 - [3]} Social democracy rejects the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism - Marxian principle of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship_of_the_proletariat - dictatorship of the proletariat , claiming that gradualist democratic reforms will improve the rights of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class - working class .^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-3 - [4]} Social democracy deviates from traditional socialism, which aims to transcend the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalist_mode_of_production - capitalist mode of production in its entirety, and is unlike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_%28Marxism%29 - socialism in the Marxist sense , which is to supersede capitalism through a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletarian_revolution - proletarian revolution .^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-Berman-4 - [5]}

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-Berman-4 -}Instead the goal of social democracy is to reform capitalism through parliamentary and democratic processes in order to achieve a welfare state, government regulation of the market, and various state sponsored programs to ameliorate and remove the inequities and injustices inflicted by the capitalist market system. Social democrats do not aim to replace the fundamental aspects of capitalism; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property - private-ownership of the means of production , the system of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage-labor - wage-labor and commodity production; instead social democrats advocate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy - capitalist mixed economies , such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_way - Third way positions and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy - social market economy . The term itself is also used to refer to the particular kind of society that social democrats advocate.^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy#cite_note-5 - [6]}

^{Marx believed that capitalism and democracy were good, because they would develop and industrialize a nation. When the people of that nation were ready, they would revolt themselves and overthrow the capitalist system. In the period between the overthrow of capitalism and communism (class less equal society) there would be in place a dictatorship to make the transition.}

^{Marx's ideas, however, have been expanded upon and his 19th century mindset (where revolutions and such were very much popular and frequent in Europe) have in the case of violent revolution and dictatorship become outdated (he wrote the book in the context of his times). Marxists today, do not believe that, and promote social democracy.}

Get it? DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH A LUDICROUS "POINT". thanks.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 19:17

"And its happening in every developed rich capitalist nation in the world. What he said is slowly coming true, so far peacefully and hopefully the revolution will be a peaceful one."

And, with the defeat of this "coup", I also hope it is peaceful? But, I really doubt that people like you could come so close and not go peacefully, since most of your predecessors were "bomb throwers!"

And, the last words of your post above was;
"Marx believed that capitalism and democracy were good, because they would develop and industrialize a nation. When the people of that nation were ready, they would revolt themselves and overthrow the capitalist system. In the period between the overthrow of capitalism and communism (class less equal society) there would be in place a dictatorship to make the transition.

Marx's ideas, however, have been expanded upon and his 19th century mindset (where revolutions and such were very much popular and frequent in Europe) have in the case of violent revolution and dictatorship become outdated (he wrote the book in the context of his times). Marxists today, do not believe that, and promote social democracy.

Get it? DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU MAKE SUCH A LUDICROUS "POINT"."

And, as I remember it, that is exactly what I said!

So, please "Do some research before you make such a ludicrous point?"

Got it?

My most humble re"marx" to you and yours!

So, "I will not go peacefully into that good-night!"

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 15:18

Originally posted by opuslola

And, with the defeat of this "coup", I also hope it is peaceful? But, I really doubt that people like you could come so close and not go peacefully, since most of your predecessors were "bomb throwers!"

Yea, just try standing up to the Army, the Marines, the Navy, and the Airforce... Yea, your "coup" will certainly be successful LOL

Believe me, I have dozens of friends in both the Army and the Marines (not the navy or airforce tho) and I've talked to them about this, and they all say, regardless of their political views, if anyone tries to start a civil war or a "coup" they'll fight for the government...

Also, I recommend you read Marx.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 16-Apr-2010 at 15:13

I would recommend that you read Jefferson, Paine, Franklin and others!

Maybe even Hobbs and J. S. Mill?

Perhaps you are familar with them?

Regards to you, but not towards your revolution! I see that you believe our soldiers will support your view against our! As to that possibly ultimate event, we will both have to wait!

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 16-Apr-2010 at 20:22

Jefferson, Paine, Franklin and others?

You mean all the liberals and progressives of that time period? Thats what they were buddy.

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 12:11

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

Jefferson, Paine, Franklin and others?You mean all the liberals and progressives of that time period? Thats what they were buddy.

Compared to someone like yourself they were conservative. Buddies- funny you have no roots here, sorry! LOL But, I respect your opinion always. Try reading “The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History.” You claim to respect education so remember the author has a PHD in American History.

Marx had not existed yet but having read a lot of Franklin and Jefferson’s writings they were on opposite ends of the poles. My sister took a PHD level course on Carl Marx but she is more sympathetic and I did learn a lot of misconceptions about him. The only thing she really disagrees with him is the idea of a violent revolution.

Communism would be great if humans were not so power hungry and selfish, same can be said about capitalism. I am not sure what the solution is because everything man does becomes corrupt. I can agree that we are all to a degree responsible in helping our fellow man but not good for nothing lazy bums who refuse to work when they can.

By the way not all liberals are atheists and some conservatives are.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 13:05

Originally posted by eaglecap

Compared to someone like yourself they were conservative. Buddies- funny you have no roots here, sorry!

Oh wow....ofcourse someone living today is more liberal than someone living over 200 years ago, hell, you're even more liberal then them. Heck, Jefferson had slaves! I said they were liberals FOR THEIR TIME PERIOD. They were the liberals and progressives of their time. Duh... LOL

This is the problem with the conservative movement, you guys have no sense of history of time..."lets take America back to the way our founding fathers had it"... LOL

Originally posted by eaglecap

Marx had not existed yet but having read a lot of Franklin and Jefferson’s writings they were on opposite ends of the poles. My sister took a PHD level course on Carl Marx but she is more sympathetic and I did learn a lot of misconceptions about him. The only thing she really disagrees with him is the idea of a violent revolution.

The only thing I disagree about Marx is also violent revolution! I already told you that Marx was writing in the context of his time, something which someone who knows about Marx, like your sister and I, know, and liberals today understand this.

When Marx wrote, there were revolutions and revolutionary movements going on throughout Europe, and because there were absolute monarchies, violent revolution was seen as the only way for progress.

This is obviously not the case today...I FEEL LIKE I KEEP HAVING TO POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Communism would be great if humans were not so power hungry and selfish, same can be said about capitalism. I am not sure what the solution is because everything man does becomes corrupt. I can agree that we are all to a degree responsible in helping our fellow man but not good for nothing lazy bums who refuse to work when they can.

Oh yea? And how do you decide who is a "good for nothing lazy bum" who "refuse to work when they can"? Please explain.

Originally posted by eaglecap

By the way not all liberals are atheists and some conservatives are.

So? Who said anything about that? LOL

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 14:18

Knowing more about Carl Marx would be good and of course no one has to agree with anyone's opinion 100%

Oh yea? And how do you decide who is a "good for nothing lazy bum" who "refuse to work when they can"? Please explain.

I am not referring to people who cannot work or cannot find work, but I have met people who don't want to work. They are on welfare or social security and they can work but they are cheating the system. I believe they, most likely, make up a minority but still it is wrong. I have met people getting aid but were cheating the system by working under the table. Do you believe this is right? True, it is hard to tell until you really know them and their story but there are people out there like that. It is hard for the government to catch these people but it is still fraud and frustrates tax payers like myself. I agree with a social safety net like I said before and in this area I might disagree with some conservatives, not all.

I have talked to people who went through the Great Depression and in that era people united to help others so the private sector has a responsibility as well. I think we both can agree on society having a social safety net to help people in need or to get back on their feet. I am sure there are Tea Party people I would disagree with on this.

If many ways I am probably more liberal than the Jefferson but I am closer to them politically than yourself. Although, many of the founding Father despised political parties. Comparing Republicans or Dems to them today is like comparing apples to oranges, things change over time. I just got down with the Modern Scholar series about political parties, very interesting. There is one on the U.S. Constitution I want to pick up sometime but I just bought one on Ancient Greece, spendy.

ets take America back to the way our founding fathers had it".

Most conservatives do not see that as a reality nor do I. Times are different but there are some principals established by them that are eternal and worth fighting for.

I should have written it down but I watched a DVD about the Founding Fathers and Jefferson made a statement that very well goes in line with the Tea Party movement. I borrowed from the library so I will see if I can find it and wrote down that quote.

I agree slavery was wrong and it has plagued human kind for centuries and we as a society got rid of it for good, all men are equal before their creator indeed. Not all the Founding Fathers favored slavery either.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 14:50

Originally posted by eaglecap

Oh yea? And how do you decide who is a "good for nothing lazy bum" who "refuse to work when they can"? Please explain.

I am not referring to people who cannot work or cannot find work, but I have met people who don't want to work. They are on welfare or social security and they can work but they are cheating the system. I believe they, most likely, make up a minority but still it is wrong. I have met people getting aid but were cheating the system by working under the table. Do you believe this is right? True, it is hard to tell until you really know them and their story but there are people out there like that. It is hard for the government to catch these people but it is still fraud and frustrates tax payers like myself. I agree with a social safety net like I said before and in this area I might disagree with some conservatives, not all.

I have talked to people who went through the Great Depression and in that era people united to help others so the private sector has a responsibility as well. I think we both can agree on society having a social safety net to help people in need or to get back on their feet. I am sure there are Tea Party people I would disagree with on this.

If many ways I am probably more liberal than the Jefferson but I am closer to them politically than yourself. Although, many of the founding Father despised political parties. Comparing Republicans or Dems to them today is like comparing apples to oranges, things change over time. I just got down with the Modern Scholar series about political parties, very interesting. There is one on the U.S. Constitution I want to pick up sometime but I just bought one on Ancient Greece, spendy.

Ok, so you're saying that the reason you dont want things like universal healthcare and other "socialist" programs, even though you believe in human beings helping other human beings, is because a small number of people cheat the system?

Ok, so why do you support capitalism? Capitalism is ABOUT cheating the system. The biggest, richest corporations cheat the system all the time. The richest most powerful people cheat the system all the time.

So by the same logic, shouldnt you also be against capitalism?

Originally posted by eaglecap

ets take America back to the way our founding fathers had it".

Most conservatives do not see that as a reality nor do I. Times are different but there are some principals established by them that are eternal and worth fighting for.

Such as democracy right? A VERY LIBERAL AND PROGRESSIVE IDEA, ESPECIALLY IN THE LATE 18TH CENTURY!

It was the conservatives of their era that fought against their ideals, remember?

Originally posted by eaglecap

I should have written it down but I watched a DVD about the Founding Fathers and Jefferson made a statement that very well goes in line with the Tea Party movement. I borrowed from the library so I will see if I can find it and wrote down that quote.

Whatever Jefferson said, it was in reference to absolute monarchy. Again, CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT. Hell, it was the founding fathers that started some of the first socialist programs in this country.

Originally posted by eaglecap

I agree slavery was wrong and it has plagued human kind for centuries and we as a society got rid of it for good, all men are equal before their creator indeed. Not all the Founding Fathers favored slavery either.

Yea, I know, the point I was trying to make was that you have to see things in the context of their times! The constitution they wrote and signed said all men are created equal, but obviously that wasnt the case.

My point is that FOR THEIR TIME, THEY WERE LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES, NOT CONSERVATIVES!

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 15:00

My dear TGS;

You recently wrote;

"Jefferson, Paine, Franklin and others?

You mean all the liberals and progressives of that time period? Thats what they were buddy."

First of all I am anything but your "buddy!" We could never ever be "buddies!" You and most everything you believe are "alien" to me, and most everyone I have ever "connected with!" you are (to me and others like me), "anti-democracy", "anti-republic", and mostly just "anti-American!"

But, the above are just a few of your nicer points! Laugh!

So, just why would you label those people as "Liberal?" or "progressive?"???

It is only your view of the definition of the above words that even makes one consider them as representative of those men! They were basically "revolutionaries!", against "royalty" and "Oppressive taxes and laws", without giving the "colonists" an equal "representation" in the English system!

Perhaps a "re-apportion" would have helped both England and the Colonies?

For, basically, that is all that they wanted!

By the way, I have written far too much material over the years that is most exactly against religion than any material in support of it!

Perhaps I support the giving of "opium" to the "masses?" Perhaps they deserve it? I cannot now, nor can I ever, underestimate the stupidity of the average person! Of course by making the above statement, I join a long list of "Progressives!" Laugh!

Remember, just what is the opposite of "progressive?", do you consider me as a "regressive?" I must guess that you do!

And, if so, just where would I "regress" this nation? To what point in time? To what and where?

I consider myself as one dedicated to certain "principles", and those "principles" are not, it seems, a part of yours!

When "artists", and I use that term in the broadest sense, are given equality or even presidence over plumbers and masons, and carpenters, in some nations tax codes, then I say those nations times are numbered!

Atists are only the result of the whims of the very rich! They are but a part of a system that even considers a department called "State", which I, and many others here in the USA, have basically considered as a place that makes the world "safe for cocktail parties"!

Been there, done that!

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 15:14

Originally posted by opuslola

First of all I am anything but your "buddy!" We could never ever be "buddies!" You and most everything you believe are "alien" to me, and most everyone I have ever "connected with!" you are (to me and others like me), "anti-democracy", "anti-republic", and mostly just "anti-American!"

Originally posted by opuslola

So, just why would you label those people as "Liberal?" or "progressive?"???

They were basically "revolutionaries!", against "royalty" and "Oppressive taxes and laws", without giving the "colonists" an equal "representation" in the English system!

I think you just answered your own question.

Originally posted by opuslola

By the way, I have written far too much material over the years that is most exactly against religion than any material in support of it!

ok, religion sucks, whats new?

Originally posted by opuslola

Perhaps I support the giving of "opium" to the "masses?" Perhaps they deserve it? I cannot now, nor can I ever, underestimate the stupidity of the average person! Of course by making the above statement, I join a long list of "Progressives!" Laugh!

The masses needed their opium, and unfortunately, many people in the United States still feel the need to stay addicts when they can simply clean themselves up.

For years us progressives have been encouraging people to rehabilitate themselves through reading, writing, listening, discussing, educating themselves, accepting facts and science...

yet still tens of millions of American's refuse to believe in global warming, evolution, etc...

So I guess to answer your question, there are still many people in this nation that need their opium, and their "faith".

Originally posted by opuslola

Remember, just what is the opposite of "progressive?", do you consider me as a "regressive?" I must guess that you do!

Yea, I do, the opposite of progressive is regressive.

Originally posted by opuslola

And, if so, just where would I "regress" this nation? To what point in time? To what and where?

The dark ages.

Originally posted by opuslola

I consider myself as one dedicated to certain "principles", and those "principles" are not, it seems, a part of yours!

Nope, definitely not, and I'm so happy about that.

Originally posted by opuslola

When "artists", and I use that term in the broadest sense, are given equality or even presidence over plumbers and masons, and carpenters, in some nations tax codes, then I say those nations times are numbered!

Atists are only the result of the whims of the very rich! They are but a part of a system that even considers a department called "State", which I, and many others here in the USA, have basically considered as a place that makes the world "safe for cocktail parties"!

Been there, done that!

What are you talking about? Are you drunk again Opuslola, oh you crack me up! LOL

Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 15:34

Ok,%20so%20youre%20saying%20that%20the%20reason%20you%20dont%20want%20things%20like%20universal%20healthcare%20and%20other%20 - Ok, so you're saying that the reason you dont want things like universal healthcare and other "socialist" programs, even though you believe in human beings helping other human beings, is because a small number of people cheat the system?

No and you are taking what I said out of context. I was not talking about Universal healthcare. I am against it for other reason such as who will pay for it? Can we afford it today? It does not address Tort reform at all. Much of the costs of medical can be blamed on the greedy lawyers. Being required to buy into his plan is very unconstitutional and defies state right - 10th Amendment.

I wish I could find it but Winston Churchill made a great speech about the dangers of Socialism. I wil try and find it later.

Any good books about Carl Marx that you can suggest? I could ask my sister also.

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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 15:42

Originally posted by eaglecap

No and you are taking what I said out of context. I was not talking about Universal healthcare.

Ok, so lets make things simpler. You do believe in human beings helping human beings, and you would support universal health care, just not the version passed in congress?

Originally posted by eaglecap

I am against it for other reason such as who will pay for it?

The rich mostly, with a minimal increase in their taxes. Furthermore, in the long run, this health care bill reduces medical costs as well as the deficit. Prior to the passage of this new bill, our medical system was in shambles and was going to destroy this country, something had to be done immediately (should have been done in the 90's when the Clinton's tried to do it, but conservatives got in the way then, then we had 8 years of Bush who did nothing but get us into two wars and destroy our economy)

This health care reform bill does not go as far as it should and it was not what Obama originally wanted to pass, but hopefully in the coming years it will be amended and made even better.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Can we afford it today?

That question is the wrong question to be asking in so many ways I dont even know where to begin.

Originally posted by eaglecap

It does not address Tort reform at all.

Tort reform is insignificant and wouldnt help much at all.

Originally posted by eaglecap

Much of the costs of medical can be blamed on the greedy lawyers.

Capitalism right? Wow, how many times can you contradict yourself?

Originally posted by eaglecap

Being required to buy into his plan is very unconstitutional and defies state right - 10th Amendment.

But I have to buy car insurance... wheres my constitutional rights on that?! Hell, I'm gonna stop paying for my car insurance, and you should too! FFFFFRRRRREEEEEDDDDDOOOOOMMMMMM (Braveheart)

Originally posted by eaglecap

I wish I could find it but Winston Churchill made a great speech about the dangers of Socialism. I wil try and find it later.

Winston Churchill was also anti-semetic and believed all Jews should been deported from Britain...

AGAIN, CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT.

the UK is a "socialist" country today.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2010 at 17:54

"Originally posted by opuslola

So, just why would you label those people as "Liberal?" or "progressive?"???

They were basically "revolutionaries!", against "royalty" and "Oppressive taxes and laws", without giving the "colonists" an equal "representation" in the English system!"

Since I do not have the sense to do the copy and paste like others here do so well, you will have to put up with my "old ways!"

TGS then wrote;
"I think you just answered your own question."

Ron, replys;

Just what are you talking about? I answered my own question? Just how could I do that? It seems more likely that you failed (in any regards) to answer the question posited towards you?

So, I again ask you for a real answer rather than pure rhetoric!

Thanks,

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 19-Apr-2010 at 10:24

Originally posted by opuslola

"Originally posted by opuslola

So, just why would you label those people as "Liberal?" or "progressive?"???

They were basically "revolutionaries!", against "royalty" and "Oppressive taxes and laws", without giving the "colonists" an equal "representation" in the English system!"

Since I do not have the sense to do the copy and paste like others here do so well, you will have to put up with my "old ways!"

TGS then wrote;
"I think you just answered your own question."

Ron, replys;

Just what are you talking about? I answered my own question? Just how could I do that? It seems more likely that you failed (in any regards) to answer the question posited towards you?

So, I again ask you for a real answer rather than pure rhetoric!

Thanks,

Ok, let me see if I can make this simple to understand:

The world, in the 18th century, was ruled over almost completely by absolute monarchs. There was no such thing as suffrage, or equality, or democracy, or human rights, freedom of speech/religion/dissent etc....

The world was a very dictatorial place.

Then all of a sudden in the 18th century, who had a bunch of European thinkers, scholars, and writers coming out with crazy theories and ideas about equality, freedom, liberty, happiness, etc... THESE LIBERAN AND PROGRESSIVE people were challenging the CONSERVATIVE STATUS QUO.

Then something amazing happened. A BUNCH OF LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES WHO WERE TIRED OF TYRANNY AND NO REPRESENTATION began a revolution to found the FIRST DEMOCRACY OF THE MODERN WORLD.

These LIBERALS and PROGRESSIVES introduced ideas such as "all men are created equal" and the freedom to dissent, etc...

THAT WAS UNHEARD OF AT THE TIME, AND MANY THOUGHT THAT SUCH LIBERAL AND PROGRESSIVE IDEAS WOULD FAIL, no one expected the United States to last long.

You understand now? Our modern world is based on the hard work of liberals and progressives throughout history, and it has always been conservatives who have gotten in the way. Its the same today, and guess what, if history tells us anything, its that liberalism and progressivism eventually comes out on top and the world becomes a better place.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 21-Apr-2010 at 16:26

Recently theres been a fued going on between the Daily Show and Jon Stewart and Fox News. The feud is based on the fact that Fox News keeps lying and misinforming its audience with fake news and Jon Stewart calling them out on it. So theres been some back and forth with this, but lets look at the facts:

Here is a report from 2004:

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/2642.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/28/comedy.politics/index.html

Here is a study from 2007:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/16/daily-show-fox-knowledge/

The conclusion is that FOX NEWS VIEWERS ARE AMONGST THE LEAST INFORMED PEOPLE IN THE NATION (MOST LIKELY TO BELIEVE THINGS THAT ARENT TRUE FOR EXAMPLE), WHILE DAILY SHOW VIEWERS RANK AT THE VERY TOP AS THE MOST INFORMED.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:04

The "nonpartisan" Pew report also said;

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-434961?ref=feeds%2Flatest

I.e., 80% of Americans do not trust the Obama administration!

Take this any way you want?

Reports like this are both cheap and not real!

And, another of your sources was "CNN.com!" I guess that they are not biased? laugh!

Also, it seems that "rich people" are better informed than the average or poor person! Wow, just who wouda thunk it? Laugh!

So, TGS, just what do you think is the average income and educational level for the "average Obama / Democrat voter?"

Please give me the stats?

And, please give me the number of viewers who watch your hero, versus the number who watch Fox news? Gee,there might well be a few million of so difference? Also, the average age, and whether or not these viewers are in college or are recent grads.? Liberal and Progressive educational systems are, strangely, more likely to produce like representatives than systems that are not both "Liberal" and/or "Progressive?" What do you think?

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:11

Nice try, but does the poll say that 80% of American's dont trust the Obama administration or dont trust the government?

The title is actually "80% of Americans do not trust the GOVERNMENT"

Hell, I dont even trust the government, no one should ever put their full trust in the government. However, I do trust Obama as a person.

Maybe you made the mistake with the title because you watch Fox News and you're too uninformed? Here is the actual report:

http://people-press.org/report/606/trust-in-government

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:33

Let's see, I offer the quote from the site I mentioned above'

"America's "Great Compromiser" Henry Clay called government "the great trust," but most Americans today have little faith in Washington's nor Mr. Obama’s ability to deal with the nation's problems.
Public confidence in government is at one of the lowest points in a half century, according to a survey from the Pew Research Center. Nearly 8 in 10 Americans say they don't trust the federal government and have little faith it can solve America's ills, the survey found.
The findings illustrate the ominous situation President Barack Obama and the Democratic Party face as they struggle to maintain their comfortable congressional majorities in this fall's elections. Midterm prospects are typically tough for the party in power (Newmax.com. 19 April 2010).
Add a toxic environment like this and lots of incumbent Democrats that no longer listen to their constituents that they are supposed to represent, one has to wonder why trust Mr. Obama and his Democratic Party? America is not ready to give up its Democratic principles that made the US the greatest nation on earth. Mr. Obama and incumbent Democrats should move to Europe if they want to live in such an environment versus change America to another European Colony. This was already tried for 180 years under British rule."

Duh?

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:36

Yea, no where does it say they dont trust Obama, it says they dont trust the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH INCLUDES MANY INSTITUTIONS.

Public confidence in government is at one of the lowest points in a half century, according to a survey from the Pew Research Center. Nearly 8 in 10 Americans say they don't trust the federal government and have little faith it can solve America's ills, the survey found.

AND ON TOP OF YOUR OWN SOURCE SAYING THAT, I POSTED THE ORIGINAL RESEARCH ARTICLE BY PEW WHICH IS ON THEIR WEBSITE, AND AGAIN, ITS ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT AS A WHOLE, NOT OBAMA IN SPECIFIC.

Go watch some Fox News, maybe that'll clear things up a bit...o wait, no it wont.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:42

Wait a second, as far as I know the Democrats under Obama, control all sides of our government, other than a thin line in the Supreme Court!

Maybe that is the reason that the 80% or so sure just which government they do not trust?

Or maybe you can prove otherwise?

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 16:47

Originally posted by opuslola

Wait a second, as far as I know the Democrats under Obama, control all sides of our government, other than a thin line in the Supreme Court!

Maybe that is the reason that the 80% or so sure just which government they do not trust?

Or maybe you can prove otherwise?

First of all, the PARTY OF NO, aka the Grand Old Party, aka the Republican Party, is doing everything in its power to stop the government from function.

Second of all, the GOVERNMENT IS NOT JUST CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE... its everything, ITS ALL EXPLAINED IN THE ORIGINAL REPORT FROM THEIR WEBSITE, READ IT.

I'm not going to explain things to you, you dont seem to want to know the reality of things. I posted the link, read it whenever you want to.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Apr-2010 at 18:50

You wrote;

"ITS ALL EXPLAINED IN THE ORIGINAL REPORT FROM THEIR WEBSITE, READ IT.

I'm not going to explain things to you, you dont seem to want to know the reality of things. I posted the link, read it whenever you want to"

Which web site is their's and just who/whom is "their?"

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 08:34

Palin defends Minister who said Islam is an evil religion:

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/religious-right/sarah-palin-defends-claim-that-islam-is-evil-and-wicked-religion/

Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 10:45

Originally posted by opuslola

The "nonpartisan" Pew report also said;

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-434961?ref=feeds%2Flatest

I.e., 80% of Americans do not trust the Obama administration!

Take this any way you want?

Reports like this are both cheap and not real!

And, another of your sources was "CNN.com!" I guess that they are not biased? laugh!

Also, it seems that "rich people" are better informed than the average or poor person! Wow, just who wouda thunk it? Laugh!

So, TGS, just what do you think is the average income and educational level for the "average Obama / Democrat voter?"

Please give me the stats?

And, please give me the number of viewers who watch your hero, versus the number who watch Fox news? Gee,there might well be a few million of so difference? Also, the average age, and whether or not these viewers are in college or are recent grads.? Liberal and Progressive educational systems are, strangely, more likely to produce like representatives than systems that are not both "Liberal" and/or "Progressive?" What do you think?

The so called source you have named, ireport, is an anonymous blog. The person who wrote that article used one sentence to state contents of a Pew report, and then everything else is opinion, biased sl*g if you will.

As for the attack on TGS' source CNN.com, I will point out that CNN.com is your source as well.

So tell me Opuslola, what happened, aside from a black man being elected president, that has caused you to become so bitter toward life in general?

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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 10:49

Red Clay, thats not even the whole story, I THEN POSTED HIM THE ORIGINAL PEW REPORT PUBLISHED ON THEIR WEBSITE SHOWING HIM THAT HE WAS WRONG AND THAT THE PERSON FROM THE BLOG HAD ATTACHED HIS OWN TITLE TO THE ORIGINAL REPORT, AND HE PROCEEDED TO QUESTION THE RELIABILITY OF THE WEBSITE AND THE PEW REPORTS AUTHORS WHEN IT TURNS OUT THAT HE WAS WRONG.

Opuslola, once he realized his source did not support his claim, proceeded to pretend as if he never posted it!

What else can you expect from the conservatives and the Know Nothings? Hell, look at their news channel Fox "News".

Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 13:06

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

What else can you expect from the conservatives and the Know Nothings? Hell, look at their news channel Fox "News".

It is disturbing to see partisan reporting passed off as objective news. This is a relatively recent phenomena in the United States and shows an increasingly divided society where each groups seeks its own "news".

Of course, this is hardly restricted to conservatives. Just look at News Week and public television's empty slogan of uhmmm.... "fair and balanced reporting". Adding insult to injury, PBS is funded by the tax dollars which forces conservatives to fund biased reporting. At least FOX is a private company.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2010 at 14:43

Originally posted by Cryptic

I agree with you. The problem is that Fox News is out to make as much money as it can in any way possible, and how can it attract the most viewers? By targeting the White Conservative population and catering to them.

Originally posted by Cryptic

Of course, this is hardly restricted to conservatives. Just look at News Week and public television's empty slogan of uhmmm.... "fair and balanced reporting".

True, but major liberal websites slash newspapers are different in one way, THEY DO NOT LIE. Every claim they make or every criticism they make is based on facts which they cite. The same cannot be said about conservative media, which mostly lies.

Great example is the Huffington Post, they post sources and facts to support every claim or criticism they make.

Liberals differentiate themselves from conservatives in this manner and it has to do with the very roots of their beliefs. Conservatives rely on "faith" rather than truth, which is why they dont question Fox News ever, they take everything it says as truth because they have "faith" in them.

Isnt it funny how there is a conservative backlash against education and the "educated elite"! How low has our country gone that being smart is considered a bad thing?! Its ABSURD!

Originally posted by Cryptic

Adding insult to injury, PBS is funded by the tax dollars which forces conservatives to fund biased reporting.

PBS is supposed to be government funded, as is NPR (they also take viewer donations), that is the way they were set up. PBS and NPR are considered highly neutral and have nothing to do with the government in power.

In fact, I think they are great examples of why non-profit media is always better and more reliable.

When money is thrown into the mix, its about how many viewers you can get, not the quality of your reporting (i.e Fox News).

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 14:12

With this new recent oil spill, Paul Krugman of the New York Times predicted that Conservatives would manage to find some way to lie about the BP oil spill to blame it on liberals:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/the-oil-spill-is-obamas-fault/?src=twt&twt=NytimesKrugman

Needless to say, his prediction was correct and conservatives have already started spreading lies about the BP oil spill. Rush Limbaugh for example:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201004290038

Here is the truth of the matter:

Early investigations have revealed that BP did not bother to install -- and that U.S. regulations do not require -- a backup device to provide another layer of protection in case the "fail-safe" shutoff valve failed (which is exactly what happened). Brazil requires such a device, and oil companies like Shell install it routinely even in the U.S. BP didn't because, at $500,000, it was "too expensive."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-pope/drill-baby-drill----or-wh_b_558473.html

More information on BP's violations:

http://www.truthout.org/whistlelower-bps-other-offshore-drilling-project-gulf-vulnerable-catastrophe59027

I recall someone saying that corporations actually care about people and the environment and that its not only about profits? Wrong once again.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 02-May-2010 at 15:14

Pundit Rush Limbaugh, who has a home on Florida's Palm Beach, suggested that the explosion could have resulted from Earth Day eco-sabotage by one of the rig workers. Limbaugh also said a cleanup was unnecessary.

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there," Limbaugh said. "It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is."

http://www.tampabay.com/incoming/oil-hits-louisiana-coast-could-reach-florida-by-sunday/1091532

Really Rush? People actually take this guy seriously?

Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 02-May-2010 at 16:13

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

"The ocean will take care of this on its own if it was left alone and left out there," Limbaugh said. "It's natural. It's as natural as the ocean water is.

Actually, there is some truth to this. Oceans do breakdown oil far better than many scientists predicted. I would not go so far as to say it is natural.

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

True, but major liberal websites slash newspapers are different in one way, THEY DO NOT LIE. Every claim they make or every criticism they make is based on facts which they cite.

Liberals dont lie? Boy, that sounds pretty dogmatic. Of course liberals dont lie, they just "spin" news. Nobody ever lies. Are yoyu sure ahteists have higher IQs?

Originally posted by TheGreatSimba

PBS and NPR are considered highly neutral and have nothing to do with the government in power. In fact, I think they are great examples of why non-profit media is always better and more reliable.

PBS has advanced leftist dogma for years. They are an example of a dogmatic non profit board of directors spinning news while being completely unaccountable to alienated viewers.

Once, I saw they "forgot" to tranlate portions of a documentary where Mayan indians stated that the CIA bad guys did not commit the particular atrocity that was being investigated and exhumed.

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-May-2010 at 18:32

RC, you amazingly wrote a while ago, these words;

"So tell me Opuslola, what happened, aside from a black man being elected president, that has caused you to become so bitter toward life in general?"

I am apalled that you as a moderator could or would write such words! The use of the term "aside from a black man being elected president,.."

I would like you to know that I find your words most insulting! You are insinuating that I am prejudiced towards "Blacks!", so I would also insinuate that it is you that shows prejudice towards others, and not me!

And, to assume that I am "bitter?", how totally outrageous are your words! You do not know me, you know only words seen on a computer screen!

I deleted some words that I should not have written in the first place! Sorry about that!

I am really incensed! (not so much now! Laugh!)

But, I also guess that for some reason, I just took your statement to heart!

So, "back to the fray!"

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 02-May-2010 at 19:27

Originally posted by Cryptic

Actually, there is some truth to this. Oceans do breakdown oil far better than many scientists predicted. I would not go so far as to say it is natural.

Yes, nature can eventually restore balance, if humans disappeared tomorrow 10000 years from now there wont be a trace of us...

But we are talking about hundreds of thousands of barrels of oil pouring into the Gulf of Mexico destroying the environment and causing massive damage, should we wait decades for the environment to recuperate itself?

Absolutely ridiculous logic.

Originally posted by Cryptic

Liberals dont lie? Boy, that sounds pretty dogmatic. Of course liberals dont lie, they just "spin" news. Nobody ever lies. Are yoyu sure ahteists have higher IQs?

We differentiate ourselves from Conservatives in that we do not lie, or try not to. No respectable liberal or liberal news outlet will lie. As a matter of fact, one thing you'll notice on liberal sites such as Huffington post, etc... is there emphasis on sources and citing their information as well as showing the facts to support their claims.

Originally posted by Cryptic

PBS has advanced leftist dogma for years. They are an example of a dogmatic non profit board of directors spinning news while being completely unaccountable to alienated viewers.

Not true at all. You perceive everything that doesnt fit into your box as being "liberal". I'm sorry, but the truth is, more often than not, "liberal". Its like the Conservatives in Texas you rewrote the textbooks because the facts presented were too "liberal"...what did the head of that council in charge of this say (he is, according to him, a conservative Christian fundamentalist)? He said, and I quote "someone needs to stand up to the experts." Ridiculous...and disgusting.

Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 03-May-2010 at 10:23

BP accepts full responsibility for the oil rig disaster:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126468782&ft=1&f=1001

Rush and all the conservatives who have been trying to spread the lie about "leftist sabotage" this past week have been exposed once again for the liars and propagandists that they are...

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-May-2010 at 15:04

Excuse me TGS, but accepting "responsibility" is the "responsible" thing to do, especially when we are speaking about a company with a world wide span! It was what used to be called something a real "adult" should do!

But, I doubt that the word "adult" comes up much in your conversations with your peers? That is, unless it is to demean them!

Regards,

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Posted By: TheGreatSimba
Date Posted: 03-May-2010 at 15:55

The 7 Stupidest Statements Made About the BP Gulf Oil Spill

7. Rush Limbaugh: Environmentalists probably blew up the oil rig

6. Rep. Taylor Compares Oil Slick to Chocolate Milk

5. Sarah Palin Promotes Offshore Drilling As Massive Oil Leak Continues

4. Bill Kristol Says Offshore Drilling Should be Brought Closer to Land

3. T. Boone Pickens: "All of that will get cleaned up and we'll be back"

2. Tony Hayward, CEO of BP: "What the hell did we do to deserve this?"

1. Rush Limbaugh: Oil Spill is as "Natural as the Ocean Water is."

All the video, audio, and sources are provided within the article:

http://www.alternet.org/water/146709/the_7_stupidest_statements_made_about_the_bp_gulf_oil_spill?page=1

Also, here is a picture that will really show you the extent of this disaster:

Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-May-2010 at 15:57

And, "a long time ago, in a Galaxy far, far away", TGS wrote;

"Remember, more than half of tea partiers do not have a college education."

Well TGS, that means that "half of the tes partiers" do have one!

Just what percentage of the AFL/CIO has one? Or what percentage of Democrat voters have one?

What you posted was hate! Pure hate, like most everything else you dump upon this site!

If a college education means anything in politics, please show us the answers to my above questions?

Bunkum!

And; "Your farts do not smell like elderberries!" laugh!

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