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Finding the original date!

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Alternative History
Forum Discription: Discussion of Unorthodox Historical Theories & Approaches
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28085
Printed Date: 30-Nov-2020 at 21:32
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Topic: Finding the original date!
Posted By: opuslola
Subject: Finding the original date!
Date Posted: 21-Jan-2010 at 16:59
Hello members, and others! This post is a question designed to find out a basic truth or truism!

That is, when our history and chronology was first placed into writing or print, the collecters of this mass of information had to have derived a date, from which all other dates could be related! Thus the following post;

AD / BC means very little if one does not really know the correct generation / period / century / millennium in which to begin!

Pray tell me just what date is the starting point? That is, by what standard does anyone determine just what epoch was used as the "prime" number? I would suggest that it is mostly a "tradition" that keeps it going?

But, this is a question for everyone, just what event in history can be fully justified as a "real time?"

And if it was a "real time", then by what evidence is there presented, to make it acceptable to us today?

Was it a celestial event?
Was it an eruption?
Was it a flood?
Was it a plague?
Was it a lineage from someones family that exists today, that is traced back over 2,000 years?
Was it merely? astronomical?
Was it a drought?   
Was it a "little Ice Age?"
Was it the birth of a King or Queen?
Was it the birth or death of a Saint?
Was it a military victory or defeat?
Was it merely the "general opinion?"

Pray, I plead, just what do each of you place complete / unequivocal (meaning " Admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; clear and unambiguous", evidence towards that you would bet your life upon it, was the date, you would chose, by which all other dates are to be constrained or considered?

It is obvious if you considered the last addrress I left on this site (http://skeptically.org/oldtestament/id15.html), that a great many "great minds" who actually live much closer to the event(s) in question, and in eras where there still might well have existed original documents to prove or disprove ones opinion, that many dates have been presented for the "begining" have been considered! Each of these dates directly addresses the "birth of the Saviour!", however?

Do we all disregard Velikovsky, or Isaac Newton?

It is most obvious that each and every one of you has to rely upon "some one", or a "group of someones", who(m) presented some point(s), by which you place your faith, in both their words and their dates / datings! / Chronologies!

If there exists some date in what we call AD, times that you can rely upon to count backwards to the "birth of the Christ", then present it please? (I.E. can anyone prove a direct lineage between their famiy and Christ?, or Herod?, or Caesar?, or anyone else from that period?)

If so, is there also some date, that preceedes the birth of the Christ, that is so verifible? If so, then please present it?

Can it really be either way? Can any of us really be sure?

I would hope you could leave "faith" out of the responses?

It is by "faith" that I await!, in some repose!

Regards,

Ron


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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/



Replies:
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2010 at 19:25
Still, no responses! Can none of you even consider the question? Is this apparent truism so disconnect all of you from even giving it some consideration?

In your hearts, and in good sense, you each can recognize that some "hub" date must have been discovered and used! Or maybe more than one "hub", with one "hub" connecting with the other, etc.?

Otherwise, dark ages, or other words that actually denote a "dark age" have to be considered to have little dating potential!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 05-Apr-2010 at 08:26
Since no one has ventured to make a claim or guess, I will venture forth!

What can be said about considering the "Paschal" or "Easter" date(s), as a "HUB" date!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal

You have numerous sites to explore above! Perhaps some of you will do so?

Please read this site? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korban_Pesach

And this one; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamb_of_God

And these; http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/250704   And;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter and;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloysius_Lilius

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2010 at 20:18
I am still awaiting some one who has an alternative view to my alternative view?

Hello?

Can anyone suggest a better date than the currently approved date of both Easter and Paschal?

Were the ancients, like Petavius, and Scaligier, or Julian or Gregory, etal, just spending their time on nothing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter

One must consider that going back that far, literally connects all of the so called "ancient" kingdoms of the Bible together! Bishop Ussher and others could not have made their figures public without some firm and secure date, could they?

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 10-May-2010 at 12:11
If anyone is interested, this site; %20 - http://nabataea.net/modernchron.html

Seems to point out certain dates of events
that are considered as "safe!" That is they
are dates with which chronologers and historians
have a great deal of confidence are basically
the correct dates, and can be used to connect
various empires, etc.!

Again, it seems that I cannot make a point and click hyper-link, so you must copy and paste this address!

http://nabataea.net/modernchron.html

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 29-May-2010 at 14:23
And yet, no takers? Does not the mere question I originally posited not make you want to know more?

You have to realize that actually based upon artifacts, etc., there existed no real method of connecting numerous empires, etc., without some reasonably assured date that all of them could be connected by?

Am I being vague or clear?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: DreamWeaver
Date Posted: 29-May-2010 at 18:52
Perception, its all about perception. Aslong as people understand and accept a dating system

then it works. It doesnt have to be right (helps though).

Besides History has moved away from dates, too stuffy, too obvious. Many are more concerned over how and why hsitory occurred in the manner it did. That Constantinople finally fell in 1453 is these days less important than as to why and how it fell, and subsequently what that means.


For good or ill thats the way things currently go.


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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-May-2010 at 18:33
Then I feel sorry for those who go forever, where I tried to understand the dating?

Just why is "dating" now Passe'?

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2010 at 17:23
Maybe I should have asked "just why is dating of events now considered to be passé? See, I got the grave in the correct place! How can placing dates on events become "out of date?", which would be the meaning of passé!

But, confused I must be, since no one of our refined history specialists can present me with any simblance of a date in which they are secure, from our "Ancient Past!" Please note that I have little problem with dates since the age of mass printing via the press!

So, you might well state that the date that mass publication of events, books, etc., via the printing press, might well be a "secure date!"

But, just how would this date tend to reliably connect anything to events that preceeded it?

So, how about it?

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Oct-2010 at 20:58
I still remain surprised that no one has presented a "key" date, as I have mentioned above?

Just why is this simple question ignored by everyone? The logic concerning it seems very strong!
Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2010 at 17:11
Again, it seems that no one wants to entertain even the question, why has no one even presented a date in the supposedly "far and distant past" whereby all dating of every other great and near great dynasties of of the past both in the Occident as wel as the Orient have been connected?

I know that there are some great historians on this site, or at least there used to be some, that might well want to take a great chance and make me look silly?

So, come on and make your stab at "history!", so far I seem to be the only one who could even consider the question!

Could it really be that none of you are really sure about our past history as it has been shoved down our gullets?

Certainly at least one of you feels confidant enough about our currently accepted view of ancient history to provide a "secure date" from which all other dating is connected?

Or do you think that all dating of the acttions of the Syrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Sythians, Hittites, Hurrians, Geats, Franks, Galatians, Romans, Armenians, etc., etc., are merely self sufficent to connect them to the rest of history?

Either you are cowards, or you are deficient in knowledge?   Or are all of you not really secure in your beliefs?

Sorry to be offensive, but months of seeing the lack of response makes me sort or mean!

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2010 at 15:11
18th of march,196b.c. coronation of Ptolemay the Fifth....Hmm...i am tranlating this...and it is more than sure that "impressions", of Chartage refugees stories,I can fell inside the story... Ptolemy's ancestor of trone is adolescent,5 years old...But we need astronomers here to tell us :"Did spring begin earlier 2206 years before?"Battle to Zana is 202b.c.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2010 at 11:35
Thanks for your post medenaywe! But, if you feel any of the above dates are secure, then you must state the reasons existing for the dates given?

Of course no ancient documents survive, only some stone inscriptions and second hand reports by later historians, because we know that the people living the the BC or BCE times, did not know they were before Christ!

I also doubt if retro-calculation can really provide you any security?

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2010 at 14:36
Ok main problem is:there is no official documents that will say :now it starts....But my respected one,on roseta we have exact time,first day of spring,or like they used to say,day of,Festival of Divine Fire(life)...And we know also that this one happens,this time,"about" six years  after battle at Zana...thats first "accepted" error...
   But we have to analyze Egyption calendar and his error per year.Than we need, per year error, after.Caesar change calendar...and error per year...Untill gregorian calendar was used....Than error per year also. here...But here we need astronomy sign like begining....comet...full exlipse...mayby...You need to dig your books...
         But what if we go backward...1054a.c. halley's comet was painted on picture...
     not bad for begining...And i am looking high resolution photo of Roseta stone...regards...


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 10-Nov-2010 at 15:06
But, you see Medenaywe, even the entire Ptolemaic dynasty receives its dating from that of the Macedonian Dynasty, and the Macedonian from its relationship to Greece and Persia, and Greece and Persia receive a lot of their dates because of relationships with Egypt!

But even the dates of much of Egyptian history seem to be intertwined with thst of Roma, etc.!

It is a circle of connections! At least that is my opinion! All based upon supposition and the mis-dating of certain personalities and documents, etc.!
Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 13:17
This question was last looked at in Nov of 2010. I thought that since there are a lot of new members, maybe some of might want to tackle this question?

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 14:45
I would suggest the lack of answers lies in the fact that everyone knows the Fomenko Follies are next.
 
 


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 16:04
No one yet knows the full true picture of history/chronology (even if the bible is true we still can't see the full picture yet) and no one yet knows for sure the "point zero" "1 anno mundi" date of the world (like Ussher's 4004 bc). (Even you don't seem to have provided/proven any key date/point/event?) There are plenty of sequences and synchronisms which provide the keys to ancient chronology (ones which the modern evolutionists don't consider). I believe the biblical is the one truest source and evidence continually found to support this. Don't be so set on written though because it seemingly may be that it was oral at first.

Most of late bc and (all) ad dating from late/neo Assyrian/Babylonian to living memory is fairly reliable (even if some exact dates might not be totally correct eg they don't know the date of battle of Badon, the birth of christ is not defintiely known but close enough (and we have possible candidate match for the star of bethlehem)) since we have "universal" synchronisms and records since then to now (25th dynasty = neoAssyrian, solon = 26th dynasty = neobabylonian = Josiah, etc). It is mainly just history before 26th dynasty that is not known/agreed. For that:

Some examples of synchronisms include Hezekiah sun goes back 10 steps ~ Nabonasar ~ Numa. Amarna texts.

Some examples of convergence points include Noachian global flood, ice age(s), Tower of Babel, rain of fire & brimstone, Joseph's world famine, Atlantis "sinking".

Some examples of sequences & synchronisms include: 4 rivers of Eden = 4 world ages which are found in many ancient nations traditions (4 ages Greece/Rome {gold silver bronze iron}, 4 suns Mexico, 4 yugas India, etc). Alternative 3 world ages (3 hermes {set shu taht}, 3 ages {stone bronze iron}, etc). There are other number ages traditions to like 7 ages/dispensations/"days", 12 ages (incld zodiacal).

We have sequences and kinglists and genealogical lists from many ancient cultures (biblical, egyptian, greek, sumerian, etc) which are somewhat reliable even if sometimes the exact order isn't always literal (eg some egyptian dynasties were contemporary).

They also provde us with dates like that of Naram-sin/Nabonidus if only they can be correctly decrypted.

Herodotus said Moeris (12th dynasty) was 900 years before [26th dynasty] which gives a date ca 1400s bc which agrees with Moses ca 1400s in bible and Atlantis 900 years before Amasis.
(It was said that most ancient history is or was based on ancient Egyptian?)

A few ancient cultures have a date of beginning of present world about 3000s bc (Indian, Mayan).

Modern orthodox dating methods/"clocks" are unreliable because they depend on that the rate/speed has always been uniformitarianly the same as at present (radiometric dating, speed of light, alluvium, precession, expansion of the universe, continental "drift", siriadic/sothaic, alignments, etc).

(I may not have the time/health to follow/reply as my situation/condition is hell but I am confident of my scenario and able to defend it even if i can't give a exact point zero date yet.)


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 16:09
According the name of Inquisition,lot of historical facts are not sure.Religion was changed in middle
age?!?Confused


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 18:08
Originally posted by red clay

I would suggest the lack of answers lies in the fact that everyone knows the Fomenko Follies are next.
 

 


A just what makes this question a "Fomenko" inspired one? I think anyone should really try to figure this one out, after all our chronology and histories are tied together in what has become a very tight web. Thus there has to be at least one "Anchor Date!"

Instead of funny posts, why don't you give it a try?

It is a very good intellectual question!

Regards, Ron







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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 18:12
Dear Arthur-Robin, thanks for your well written reply. I think that you had some rather good points. Well done.

By the way! I surely hope you began to feel better. God Bless!

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2013 at 18:43
Originally posted by medenaywe

According the name of Inquisition,lot of historical facts are not sure.Religion was changed in middle
age?!?Confused


Yes medenaywe, these things happened in the Middle Ages, but the Middle Ages supposedly lasted about 1,000 years, if you accept our current chronology.

I am just waiting for those incredible posts from Red Clay that will shred my ideas to little pieces!!!

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2013 at 18:52
Dear Arthur-Robin, you wrote these words;

"No one yet knows the full true picture of history/chronology (even if the bible is true we still can't see the full picture yet) and no one yet knows for sure the "point zero" "1 anno mundi" date of the world (like Ussher's 4004 bc). (Even you don't seem to have provided/proven any key date/point/event?) There are plenty of sequences and synchronisms which provide the keys to ancient chronology (ones which the modern evolutionists don't consider). I believe the biblical is the one truest source and evidence continually found to support this. Don't be so set on written though because it seemingly may be that it was oral at first."

Very well! I did mention a date that could well be the only one used to date BCE and CE dating, and that was the dating of the first Easter!

Please feel free to explore all of the data found on the Net! There is quite a lot and a lot of it has some hard questions to answer.

You see A-R, that there really has to be some date that is so secure, that all of the chronologies of the world have been tied together from it!

From this one very secure date, it seems to me that all other dating's were tied! This might well have happened when one secure dating was linked to another secure dating, etc.! But just where is the secure dating evidence? (Secure dating, means "without a doubt", in my mind.)

Some of the greatest minds of the past have tried to solve the Easter dating, but it is, I am afraid still not a "sure thing!", 'with out a doubt" date.

I cannot find it, perhaps you can?

Regards, Ron


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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 04-Jan-2014 at 21:49
To all concerned, just what is the difference of the Paschal and Easter?

I, for one, consider them the same?

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 21:12
Here is a good site.

%20 - http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blxtn_easter_dating.htm[/URL

Next Dionysius the "Little" or in French the "Petite!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysius_Exiguus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysius_Exiguus

Dionysius Petau or Dionysius Petavius, either of the last names or descriptive names Petau and Petavius are similar to Petite, and thus could mean "small" or "Little."

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petavius - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petavius

And this site; http://http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/fomenko/petavius.htm - http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/fomenko/petavius.htm You might well note that some of our protection devices say that this site might be unsafe! I think it is bunkum and a way to deter people from finding out the truth. Proceed with caution, however.

The Fomenko Group considers all three of these personages to be only the full scope of the last! The early two are merely "ghost" figures set back into the past to help create a past.

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 22:22
Opuslola,
First you have to define what you mean by the first Easter/Paschal? Are you refering to the crucifiction? (Or do you mean first christmas since you mention Dionysius?) Are you refering to the passover/exodus? are you refering to pagan Eostre/Ostara? [Or are you refering to one of the 2 jewish new year dates from creation/flood/moses? Or are you refering to the projected back in time to creation in relation to conjunctions/etc?]
And by date do you only require a year or do you require a month and day too?
There are secure world history dates (or events/ages/etc) that are known (as i gave some brief examples), and there is a point zero that isn't yet rediscovered.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 22:33
By the way medenaywe can you translate "Petavius?" I feel it means "The way of Peter", or something similar.

But, of course "peter" also means "Rock", and maybe it means "a rocky road?" Smile!

Regards, Ron/Rum

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 22:43
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin

Opuslola,
First you have to define what you mean by the first Easter/Paschal? Are you refering to the crucifiction? (Or do you mean first christmas since you mention Dionysius?) Are you refering to the passover/exodus? are you refering to pagan Eostre/Ostara? [Or are you refering to one of the 2 jewish new year dates from creation/flood/moses? Or are you refering to the projected back in time to creation in relation to conjunctions/etc?]
And by date do you only require a year or do you require a month and day too?
There are secure world history dates (or events/ages/etc) that are known (as i gave some brief examples), and there is a point zero that isn't yet rediscovered.


Thanks for your response. I am merely trying to explain that the dating of Death and later resurrection of the Christ, was to become a key date to all dates. The pinning down of this date even if there existed a few week difference, made the date of the birth of the Christ, and the dating of Caesars, possible within a few weeks at the most. Thus it is "The Key Date!", IMHO! The dating of a Roman Emperor ties all other dates with it and unites every nation who had experience with the Romans, etc.!

Regards, Ronald (Since I sign most every post with my first name, it is amazing how few of you actually know it!, and none of you have ever used it!)

"Diony·sius Ex·ig·u·us [eg-zig-yoo-uhs, ek-sig-]

noun
died a.d. 556?, Scythian monk, chronologist, and scholar: devised the current system of reckoning the Christian era."

He reportedly wrote that the Christ was born 525 years before. Thus the date of year 1(one), etc.! And just whom was in power in Rome at that time? And just what was the situation in Egypt, and Syria etc.?

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2014 at 23:47

I not quite sure I understand. I thought you meant the date of creation/bc. Do you only mean key date for all AD dating? or that it is also key for bc in relation certain amount of years from creation date (like yr 4000 / etc in Barbara Thierring's Apocalypse book). I thought Fomenko reckons that all history before Charlemagne is made up duplications? For some reason the figure 525 yrs [phoenix?] sounds possibly familiar from somewhere else, all i can find is Amasis/Psamtik/Cambyses/evelthon 525bc, Welsh Annals/ 19 or 84 yr easter cycle/Rothmund/catastrophe event/Drest 525ad [also similar to 532/537/542/547 of Nennius/Geoff of Mon], 36525yrs. Sorry for the impersonality Ron(ald). (Sean.)

-----

The Star of Bethlehem (& Herod's eclipse):
[- 17bce comet]
- Halleys 12/11bc Aug25th 56/63days china?
- Uranus&Saturn 9bc?
- conjunction of (mars &) Jupiter & Saturn (3 x in Pisces) 5months in ((20th/endFeb, Apr12th), 20/21/29thMay, sep/(2)3rdOct, 4thDec, (endJan)) 7/6bc/{7bce/feb6bce}?
- double occultation of JupiterbyMoon close to sun in Aries 17april 6bc? / ((sun&) jupiter&moon&saturn in aries (ven&mar in neigh consts) 6/17apr6bc.) [~Herod's eclipse?]
- conjunction Uranus&Venus 6bc?
- object/comet/nova 5bc (70days,China)?
- comet withnotail thatdidn'tmove 4bc (korean)?
/ - comet & conjunctionseveralplanets inpisces ca4bc (dss)?
[- lunareclipse 13/15mar4bc?]
(- conjunction of Venus&Saturn (in eastern sky) in 12Jun3bc?)
(- conjunction of Jupiter and Venus in Leo in 12thAug3bc?)
- conjunction Venus & Mercury 31aug3bc?
[7conjuncts 3-2bc?]
- conjunction of Jupiter&Regulus in Leo (1st of 3x over 8mo) between 14Sept3bc & Jun2bc?
/ - conjunction of Jupiter&Venus near Regulus in Leo in [West at] sunset in 17Jun2bc?
- Venus rose to mark sceptre in Leo 18/20/24aug2bc?
- Jupiter stationary 25dec2bc
- jup&ven in virgo in sw [july1bc]?
[- no/nonein yr0bc(e)]
- Venus rose in Aries 27mar 1ad?
- 2&1supernovas (1toolowonhorizon, kes75, aquilaeV603) [no date given in my source]?


The eclipse of Herod might be the double occultation of Jupiter?


-> herod the great 40-4bc/-1bc? (eclipse shortly before death)
-> augustus caesar 19bc-ad14
-> star of bethlehem 12/11bc (halley's), 9bc, 7/6bc (j&s in pisces), 6bc, 5bc, 3bc, 3-2bc (j&v etc), 2bc, 1ad.
-> cyrinus 10-7bc, ad6-7-12 ?
-> census/indiction 12bc, 8bc (3x), 7bc, (mass oath Aug) 3bc, ce/ad6/7, 20, 34.


= only one date in common and that is 7bc?
[Though the bible doesn't actually say that the decreed "census" and Jesus birth were the same as the 1st census at time of Cyrinus? Also the star was visible between his birth and upto 2yrs later (or 2 years before)?]


Jesus was (between 12 and) "about 30" y.o. in the 15th regnal year of Tiberias (ad28/29?)
Some revisionists claim Jesus [was baptised at age 33 not 30 y.o., &/or] died at age 36 not 33 y.o. (after 1-2-3 years ministry). However it may even be possible that he [was baptised at 36 not 33 or "30" y.o., &/or] died at 39 [40] not 36 or 33 y.o.?
Psalms 22:30 (and Isaiah 53:8 ) says his "generation" (40 years)? (Unless its not counting tribulation? &/or Though a generation can be 33/30 [32] yrs (compare Gen 11, Joseph "about 30", Herodotus)?)








Ministry & Crucifiction/eclipse/resurrection:
[ad 15? - Tiberias reign began.]
<<27ad?>>
"27"/28/29ad, 15th yr Tiberias;
<<5apr30ad?>>
4/5 mar 31 ad "ladder formed by all wandering stars" [Transfiguration?];
15 aug 31 ad "Venus rose in sextans (included as part of leo)";
32ad darkness/eclipse (Thallus/Africanus); /
/ fri 3 apr 33 ad "eclipse/blood-moon"?
(19 mar-)5 apr 33 ad "Venus (& sun) rose in pisces".
34 census [tax?]
"35 british evangelised"
36 pilate rule ends.
37 tiberias reign ends.
46 famine
70 destruction jerusalem.

The saying of 'Tammuz' that "great Pan is dead" in the reign of Tiberias (15-37) is possibly connected with the death of Jesus? (Ref. JC Cooper.)
556ad minus 525yrs = 31ad????

My tentative theory is that Jesus was born 7bc, baptised at 36 in "27"/28/29 ad, 3 & a 1/2 yrs ministry, died/rose 39 yrs old in 32/33ad. However I feel that I'm probably wrong, esp as the alternatives of others of star in 3/2bc and of 30/33/36 yrs old are also convincing/convicting. (The alternative is thus: born 3/2bc, baptised 29ad aged 33, died 32/33 aged 36?) The birth/xmas date is therefore the more uncertain, the crucifiction/easter one seems more certain.

The time of 46 yrs to build Herod's temple in Jesus' time may either confirm or contradict my dating:
They say Herod's temple was built in 17th/18th yr of Herod (about 21/20/19 bc), which would make my date 3yrs out. However it is said that Herod had to quary the stones before demolishing and rebuilding temple (the found quary site/finds date to 19 bc), &/or Jewish tradition says temple took 3yrs to build (JC's 3 days?), so that might make my date not 3yrs out. The year of Herod's reign is either 15th or 17th/18th yr. The date of temple (re)building/expansion/construction begun could have been anywhere between 21 to early17bc.


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2014 at 00:00
Can't you see Arthur-Robin that it is all "smoke and mirrors?"

There does not exist any reputable date, that cannot be challenged before the general usage of the "Printing Press!"

Mein Gott!

Have you read the Koln Cathedral thread lately?

By the way you post above was remarkable! Thanks!

Regards, Ron   

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 15-Jan-2014 at 22:05
I remain continually amazed that more of you so-called historians, do not really understand the importance of this date!!!
Ron

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 00:54
Ron: You're wandering again! It's difficult to find what you really mean in your original post. So as to try to clarify historical events, it is necessary to relate the event to a place in time. There is no need, under ordinary circumstances, to question the definition of time, it's a given accepted by all of us, except you. As to the fact that certain events have been allocated to a space in time, does it really matter, except for clarifying historical chronology? Where would we be if we continually questioned the dates upon which events have been said to have occurred throughout history. I could go on-
1. What is your name?
2. How do you know?
3. Did your parents tell you?
4. They may have lied.
5. Is there an historical record of your naming?
6. Who wrote it?
7. Where did they get the information from?
8. Your parents. see 4. above.
9. When were you born?
10.How do you know?

Do you see what I mean

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 21:28
Certainly toyo....., you cannot be serious? Just how do you believe our historical chronology was written? Have you never read any serious criticisms of it? Hundreds of minds have searched this very problem over the centuries? And, you remain dumb to them?
Even the most serious evidence is mostly here say or worse!

Please tell me where I am incorrect?

And then you send to me that stupid list of ten dumb things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO! I DO NOT SEE WHAT YOU MEAN!

Do you even have any way to understand what I mean? Please?

Yes, in my case there exist numerous records of both my birth day and name, and they all exist in "public" records that are still extant in the original, as far as I know!

Sorry you do not have such!

And neither do most all personages that are thought to have lived before the 10th or 11th century of the current era.

But, perhaps you can provide us or me, with some convincing evidence?

Start with Caesar, and Gaul, and Jesus, and hundreds of others? Just provide me with some extant evidence that cannot be challenged?

The so called "History" of this world is full of fakes! The Roman C. C. has revealed hundreds of them and historians have revealed hundreds more! So, sometimes these "reveals" contradict one another.

If so, just upon which side to you reside?

Regards, Ron

Ron

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 21:42
By the way, I am still waiting with "bated breath" the volumes of evidence promised by our esteemed leader. (RC)

Regards, Ron

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 21:50
Originally posted by Arthur-Robin


I not quite sure I understand. I thought you meant the date of creation/bc. Do you only mean key date for all AD dating? or that it is also key for bc in relation certain amount of years from creation date (like yr 4000 / etc in Barbara Thierring's Apocalypse book). I thought Fomenko reckons that all history before Charlemagne is made up duplications? For some reason the figure 525 yrs [phoenix?] sounds possibly familiar from somewhere else, all i can find is Amasis/Psamtik/Cambyses/evelthon 525bc, Welsh Annals/ 19 or 84 yr easter cycle/Rothmund/catastrophe event/Drest 525ad [also similar to 532/537/542/547 of Nennius/Geoff of Mon], 36525yrs. Sorry for the impersonality Ron(ald). (Sean.)

-----

Dear Arthur-Robin, there exists literally dozens of dates done my past masters of religion, science and mathematics that differ in the date you proposed above by hundreds if not thousands of years! Just how can we predict it?

My regards, Ron

The Star of Bethlehem (& Herod's eclipse):
[- 17bce comet]
- Halleys 12/11bc Aug25th 56/63days china?
- Uranus&Saturn 9bc?
- conjunction of (mars &) Jupiter & Saturn (3 x in Pisces) 5months in ((20th/endFeb, Apr12th), 20/21/29thMay, sep/(2)3rdOct, 4thDec, (endJan)) 7/6bc/{7bce/feb6bce}?
- double occultation of JupiterbyMoon close to sun in Aries 17april 6bc? / ((sun&) jupiter&moon&saturn in aries (ven&mar in neigh consts) 6/17apr6bc.) [~Herod's eclipse?]
- conjunction Uranus&Venus 6bc?
- object/comet/nova 5bc (70days,China)?
- comet withnotail thatdidn'tmove 4bc (korean)?
/ - comet & conjunctionseveralplanets inpisces ca4bc (dss)?
[- lunareclipse 13/15mar4bc?]
(- conjunction of Venus&Saturn (in eastern sky) in 12Jun3bc?)
(- conjunction of Jupiter and Venus in Leo in 12thAug3bc?)
- conjunction Venus & Mercury 31aug3bc?
[7conjuncts 3-2bc?]
- conjunction of Jupiter&Regulus in Leo (1st of 3x over 8mo) between 14Sept3bc & Jun2bc?
/ - conjunction of Jupiter&Venus near Regulus in Leo in [West at] sunset in 17Jun2bc?
- Venus rose to mark sceptre in Leo 18/20/24aug2bc?
- Jupiter stationary 25dec2bc
- jup&ven in virgo in sw [july1bc]?
[- no/nonein yr0bc(e)]
- Venus rose in Aries 27mar 1ad?
- 2&1supernovas (1toolowonhorizon, kes75, aquilaeV603) [no date given in my source]?


The eclipse of Herod might be the double occultation of Jupiter?


-> herod the great 40-4bc/-1bc? (eclipse shortly before death)
-> augustus caesar 19bc-ad14
-> star of bethlehem 12/11bc (halley's), 9bc, 7/6bc (j&s in pisces), 6bc, 5bc, 3bc, 3-2bc (j&v etc), 2bc, 1ad.
-> cyrinus 10-7bc, ad6-7-12 ?
-> census/indiction 12bc, 8bc (3x), 7bc, (mass oath Aug) 3bc, ce/ad6/7, 20, 34.


= only one date in common and that is 7bc?
[Though the bible doesn't actually say that the decreed "census" and Jesus birth were the same as the 1st census at time of Cyrinus? Also the star was visible between his birth and upto 2yrs later (or 2 years before)?]


Jesus was (between 12 and) "about 30" y.o. in the 15th regnal year of Tiberias (ad28/29?)
Some revisionists claim Jesus [was baptised at age 33 not 30 y.o., &/or] died at age 36 not 33 y.o. (after 1-2-3 years ministry). However it may even be possible that he [was baptised at 36 not 33 or "30" y.o., &/or] died at 39 [40] not 36 or 33 y.o.?
Psalms 22:30 (and Isaiah 53:8 ) says his "generation" (40 years)? (Unless its not counting tribulation? &/or Though a generation can be 33/30 [32] yrs (compare Gen 11, Joseph "about 30", Herodotus)?)








Ministry & Crucifiction/eclipse/resurrection:
[ad 15? - Tiberias reign began.]
<<27ad?>>
"27"/28/29ad, 15th yr Tiberias;
<<5apr30ad?>>
4/5 mar 31 ad "ladder formed by all wandering stars" [Transfiguration?];
15 aug 31 ad "Venus rose in sextans (included as part of leo)";
32ad darkness/eclipse (Thallus/Africanus); /
/ fri 3 apr 33 ad "eclipse/blood-moon"?
(19 mar-)5 apr 33 ad "Venus (& sun) rose in pisces".
34 census [tax?]
"35 british evangelised"
36 pilate rule ends.
37 tiberias reign ends.
46 famine
70 destruction jerusalem.

The saying of 'Tammuz' that "great Pan is dead" in the reign of Tiberias (15-37) is possibly connected with the death of Jesus? (Ref. JC Cooper.)
556ad minus 525yrs = 31ad????

My tentative theory is that Jesus was born 7bc, baptised at 36 in "27"/28/29 ad, 3 & a 1/2 yrs ministry, died/rose 39 yrs old in 32/33ad. However I feel that I'm probably wrong, esp as the alternatives of others of star in 3/2bc and of 30/33/36 yrs old are also convincing/convicting. (The alternative is thus: born 3/2bc, baptised 29ad aged 33, died 32/33 aged 36?) The birth/xmas date is therefore the more uncertain, the crucifiction/easter one seems more certain.

The time of 46 yrs to build Herod's temple in Jesus' time may either confirm or contradict my dating:
They say Herod's temple was built in 17th/18th yr of Herod (about 21/20/19 bc), which would make my date 3yrs out. However it is said that Herod had to quary the stones before demolishing and rebuilding temple (the found quary site/finds date to 19 bc), &/or Jewish tradition says temple took 3yrs to build (JC's 3 days?), so that might make my date not 3yrs out. The year of Herod's reign is either 15th or 17th/18th yr. The date of temple (re)building/expansion/construction begun could have been anywhere between 21 to early17bc.


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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 21:52
Does anyone have any idea what the name "Herod" means?   

Hello Mend......?

Ron

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 21:55
I would refer to you all to again read my original post!

"
Hello members, and others! This post is a question designed to find out a basic truth or truism!

That is, when our history and chronology was first placed into writing or print, the collecters of this mass of information had to have derived a date, from which all other dates could be related! Thus the following post;

AD / BC means very little if one does not really know the correct generation / period / century / millennium in which to begin!

Pray tell me just what date is the starting point? That is, by what standard does anyone determine just what epoch was used as the "prime" number? I would suggest that it is mostly a "tradition" that keeps it going?

But, this is a question for everyone, just what event in history can be fully justified as a "real time?"

And if it was a "real time", then by what evidence is there presented, to make it acceptable to us today?

Was it a celestial event?
Was it an eruption?
Was it a flood?
Was it a plague?
Was it a lineage from someones family that exists today, that is traced back over 2,000 years?
Was it merely? astronomical?
Was it a drought?    
Was it a "little Ice Age?"
Was it the birth of a King or Queen?
Was it the birth or death of a Saint?
Was it a military victory or defeat?
Was it merely the "general opinion?"

Pray, I plead, just what do each of you place complete / unequivocal (meaning " Admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; clear and unambiguous", evidence towards that you would bet your life upon it, was the date, you would chose, by which all other dates are to be constrained or considered?

It is obvious if you considered the last addrress I left on this site (http://skeptically.org/oldtestament/id15.html), that a great many "great minds" who actually live much closer to the event(s) in question, and in eras where there still might well have existed original documents to prove or disprove ones opinion, that many dates have been presented for the "begining" have been considered! Each of these dates directly addresses the "birth of the Saviour!", however?

Do we all disregard Velikovsky, or Isaac Newton?

It is most obvious that each and every one of you has to rely upon "some one", or a "group of someones", who(m) presented some point(s), by which you place your faith, in both their words and their dates / datings! / Chronologies!

If there exists some date in what we call AD, times that you can rely upon to count backwards to the "birth of the Christ", then present it please? (I.E. can anyone prove a direct lineage between their famiy and Christ?, or Herod?, or Caesar?, or anyone else from that period?)

If so, is there also some date, that preceedes the birth of the Christ, that is so verifible? If so, then please present it?

Can it really be either way? Can any of us really be sure?

I would hope you could leave "faith" out of the responses?

It is by "faith" that I await!, in some repose!

Regards,

Ron

Capishe? Is that word actually Italian? LOL

   

"History is more or less bunk. It's tradition. We don't want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history that we make today."




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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Jan-2014 at 22:10
Look ya'll! History seems to tell us numerous times that certain men and councils went into long investigations as to the dating of Easter or the Jewish Paschal!

It seems that our ancestors were not very sure of this event?

Can any of you history experts list all of those men and all of those councils who regarded the importance of this date?

I contend that all dating systems are a derivative of this dating? But just whose dating was finally accepted?

Certainly one of you should know the answer? After all, some of you probably have "Doctor" somewhere in your resume'? LOL

Regards, Ron

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 01:01
Originally posted by opuslola

Certainly toyo....., you cannot be serious? Just how do you believe our historical chronology was written? Have you never read any serious criticisms of it? Hundreds of minds have searched this very problem over the centuries? And, you remain dumb to them?
Even the most serious evidence is mostly here say or worse!

Please tell me where I am incorrect?
Ron

Opuslola
1. Yes, I'm serious;
2. I believe that our historical chronology is composed from research into historical writings, archaeology and genetics;
3. I don't believe that I'm dumb; and
4. The word is "hearsay".
Where a statement is purely hearsay, I would not expect it to be considered fact until it's corroborated in some material particular by physical evidence.
The ten points I put to you are not rubbish, based on your theories, you probably don't exist, were probably never born, and probably don't have parents. Everything is determined by provable fact-evidence peer reviewed and published for general review.

I don't agree with what you say when you go on these rants, and I'll continue beating you over the head until you start researching your posts before you send them.
Comprendes?
Verstanden sie?
And the word "capice" is indeed Italian!


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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 01:10
Originally posted by opuslola

Look ya'll! History seems to tell us numerous times that certain men and councils went into long investigations as to the dating of Easter or the Jewish Paschal!

It seems that our ancestors were not very sure of this event?

Can any of you history experts list all of those men and all of those councils who regarded the importance of this date?

I contend that all dating systems are a derivative of this dating? But just whose dating was finally accepted?

Certainly one of you should know the answer? After all, some of you probably have "Doctor" somewhere in your resume'? LOL

Regards, Ron


OpuslolaJust a further point in this conversation. What was the point of your original post? Was it to encourage debate or was it just one of your more "convivial" moments? We currently have a fairly sensible conversation running about Standards and Heraldry-why not stick to sensible topics?

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 01:15
Da! I understand your position! You defend the "Status quo:"

Whereby I go the other way! Smile!

Bed time awaits!

Ron

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 23-Jan-2014 at 01:55
Originally posted by opuslola

Da! I understand your position! You defend the "Status quo:"

Whereby I go the other way! Smile!

Bed time awaits!

Ron


I defend the status quo unless there is evidence to the contrary.
I would defend to the death your right to "go the other way".
Dos vedanya Tovarisch!

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Jan-2014 at 20:49
Originally posted by toyomotor

Originally posted by opuslola

Da! I understand your position! You defend the "Status quo:"

Whereby I go the other way! Smile!

Bed time awaits!

Ron


I defend the status quo unless there is evidence to the contrary.
I would defend to the death your right to "go the other way".
Dos vedanya Tovarisch!


As would I, my friend!

Dos vedanya Tovarisch

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Jan-2014 at 21:25
Actually my friend, deep in your heart you know that there does actually have to a date so certain that all other dates are related!

There just has to be one and one only!

And deep down, you and all others also know it.
It is the only thing that can explain how all of the ancient worlds civilizations could have been put into a cohesive chronology!

Regards, Ron
Dos vedanya Tovarisch


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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 25-Jan-2014 at 02:10
Originally posted by opuslola

Actually my friend, deep in your heart you know that there does actually have to a date so certain that all other dates are related!

There just has to be one and one only!

And deep down, you and all others also know it.
It is the only thing that can explain how all of the ancient worlds civilizations could have been put into a cohesive chronology!

Regards, Ron
Dos vedanya Tovarisch


Well, you have a point there. In order to nominate a date, we must have a starting point to which it relates. When was the year zero? This is starting to make me shudder, I have to concede your point. I suppose we can take the birth of Jesus, however tenuous that may be, as the start point for all that's happened since, and therefore before the birth of JC. When was the Big Bang? Was there in fact a Big Bang?

I can only relate points in time to CE (or AD) and BCE (or BC). I suppose we have to take peoples word for it!!

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 25-Jan-2014 at 13:27
Well Ian, think taking peoples word for it, is the problem.

It seems this problem was considered so important that Ecumenical Councils were started in an attempt to solve the problem and please as many folks as possible. I think our currently accepted history mentions at least three of them.

And, indeed the main problem concerning correct dating seems to have started with a good or even correct solution to the Paschal problem, or more properly, "The Paschal Cycle!"

So some groups consider this date as the solution to the connecting date or the "Zero year!"

Regards, Ron

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 02:41
In the western Christian countries the accepted date we use is that (alleged-did you like that Ron?) birth of Jesus Christ. So we date everything from that point in time. Now, if anyone could prove that Jesus wasn't born, didn't exist or was born on another date, we'd all be in trouble. We'd have to use another date of an event which has been proven to have happened and is acceptable to the majority, and take that as Year 0.

Of course there are those who dispute any date as factual, but, thankfully, they're in the minority.

All things are relative, in this case, to a proven or accepted event in time.

Rascally Historical Revisionists will always dispute everything, knowing no peace and forever spinning in space, where there is no time.

May your God have mercy on you!

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 02:49
RON: Do you really exist, or are you a figment of your own imagination? When were your born? What does Fomenko say about that? How did you arrive at that date, and is it acceptable to the Fomenko school of thought? You see, to accept your Fomenko views on dates and events in history, would be to argue against your very existence. You say, from memory, that you're 67 years of age, how do you know? By what date or event in history did you arrive at your birth date. If, instead of being a figment of your own imagination, you're a figment of mine, I'm in need of serious help.



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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 04:06
Yes Ian, you do need help, and I am here to help you, and others like you! Just follow the bouncing ball!   

The crazy thing is, that you know my point is a valid one, and one that is ignored by most people.

I do think that the only date that could link 1. the birth of JC; 2. the Egyptian world.; 3. the world of the Tigris and Euphrates.; 4. the Roman Empires. ; 5. the rest of the world!, is the dating of the Pashal/Easter, etc.!
And for centuries it seems it was determined by a small man.


Ron

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Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 06:07
As you say, opuslola, the original AD dates were based on the date of the Crucifixion, gained by astronomical calculations, but later the date for Jesus' birth was used. Both dates are based on the date given in the New Testament for John the Baptist's ministry, and the length of Jesus'ministry (for his crucifixion) and the given age he was when he started preaching (for the date of his birth). However, the use of AD and BC are just ways of numbering the sequence of years. That sequence is independent of when Jesus was born, and no historical events are dated solely reliant upon that calculated date of birth. The AD/BC numbering is overlaid upon an existing, independent sequence of events. Those events are not created by the AD/BC usage. This is why it is possible to claim that Jesus was actually born 7-4 BC, or never existed at all, without it affecting the dating system.



Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 07:17
precise plus&minus 6 years Sidney!It depends of source they use.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 15:20
ok Ron/Opuslola, perhaps the answer is the zodiac (and also Draco/Ursa) or at least in the heavens (sort of like gps). Hancock and others showed how many nations myths and architecture etc encoded the numbers of zodiacal/precession (72, 432, etc). The only problem may be that disruptions of the crust/poles etc might change the dating? (It is possible that the alignments and slopes of the pyramids, and ziggurats, and stonehenge and megaliths reflect such practice/changes.

look at how alot of dates seem to be similar:
36525 yrs Egyptian, cro magnon "[30000s] yrs bc"
12000 yrs Zoroastrian, "4 calendars coincide: 11653 bc Mayan; 11652/11500 bc Hindu; 11542 bc Egyptian; 11542 bc Assyrian"; 11013 bc (camping);
12000 y.a. end ice age; great pyramid [10000s] bc, 9660 bc Zoroastrian; 9560 bc/9000 yrs Atlantis
8496 bc OttoMuck ,8498/8238 bc Maya; atlantis 8000 yrs,
5892 (lepsius), 5867 bc Menes (Champollion-Figeac); 5592 (clement), 5529 (theophilus), 5509/5508 [bc] (alexandria/byzanti/constantinople ((east)greek)/cunningham); 5503 bc Alexandrian; 5501/5500 [bc] (africanus/hippolytus/gregory /axum/bruce) , 5499 yrs/bc Africanus, 5493/5492 (panodorus/maximus/syncellus /ethiopian), 5492 bc Antioch, 5476/5478 (septuagint/sirius), 5469 (severus), 5411 bc Sept/Hale's; 5336 (isodore), 5228bc (eusebius), 5199 (latin/jerome/irish/agreda), 5195 bc Irish; 5... bc AngloSaxonChronicle;
4339bc (seder olam zutta), c4300/4241/4245 (samaritan), 4192 (scotus), 4138bc (creation clinton), 4058 (maimonides), 4026 ([ref fasold]/jw?), 4009 (ww), usher 4004 bc, jewish/thierring 4000 bc
3992 (kepler), 3974 (nbp/kjv), 3962 (tresham?), 3960 (lightfoot), 3952/3951 (bede/lapide), 3949 (scaliger/roman), 3929bc (Lightfoot), 3925/3924 (seder olam rabbah/massor), 3873bc (Abe 2023 after Adam + 1850bc), 3836 (helwig), 3761 bc (Jewish/halafta/Nippur) / 3751 (halafta/sor), nippur 3760 bc / naramsin/sippar 3750 bc, sesortosis 3712 bc; 3616 (heller);
3373/3114/3113/3104 bc Maya; 3189 bc (Atrahasis); 3102 bc Hindu, "menes 3100 bc", 3078bc (2nd conjunction)
Menes (Wilkinson) 2320 bc, menes 2300 bc [josephus "menes 1300 yrs before solomon", herodotus (1)1340 yrs], moslem Abraham 2300 bc, 2220/2285 bc Kutirnahunte (Asshurbanipal), 2234bc babylonian (Kallisthenes), 2224 bc Menes (Palmer), transit venus 2224 bc;
joseph 1876 bc , 1873 bc sothaic "12th dyn", [sesor-tosis 1837 bc (2500yrs/4=625yrs + 1212 bc)?]
ca 1400s bc : { moeris 900 yrs before amasis 2, atlantis 900 years before amasis 2, moses 480+[490] yrs before necho, hercules 900 yrs before Amasis 2 }; c1400/1394bc long night Peru.
"8th cent bc Venus tabs", 1st olympiad 776 bc, spring & autumn annals 776 bc?, rome 753/747 bc, 751 bc Aztec 5th cycle began; {numa, hezekiah, nabonasar 747 bc}, velikovsky mars/venus 721 bc; 712 bc Assyrian; 710 bc 5 days added 52nd peruvian monarch;
velikovsky mars/venus 687 bc (Sennacherib, Bamboo books china), jimmu tenno 660 bc, asshurbanipal 650 bc, necho 600 bc, nephi 600 bc,
esdras 400 yrs messiah, ad 412 bk of mormon, ad 425 sanhedrin, grail 450/454 yrs ad, nabratein 494th yr,
"camlan/plague 537 ad", justinian plague, maelgwn/plague 547 ad
badon 554 ad, beranbury 556 ad
pontesburh 661 ad, 2nd Badon 665 ad (both 1st easter)
mountain of promise 1418/1421 ad, council constance
newton, fire london, annus mirabulis 1666
jack the ripper, ac doyle, rl stevenson

(disclaimer: i don't agree with the evolutionary dates, they just intersting coincidences, nor with the gentile dates before biblical (they are genuine but code not literal).)


4 world ages:
mexico: 4 suns
greek: 4 ages (gold silver/ethiopians bronze/brass/brazen iron)
zodiacal: 4 (leo taurus aquarius scorpio/aquilo/serpen)
bible: 4 beasts/metals (lion/gold bear/silver leopard/brass beast/iron)
bible: 4 rivers/lands eden (pison/havila/gold, gihon/cush, tigris/asshur, euphrates)
bible: 4 archangels (mich, gabriel, raphael, uriel)
bible: 4 horsemen apocalyse?
india: 4 yugas (satya/krita treta dwapara kali/dark)
[4 positions Ursa/plough?]
[4 positions sun zodiacal pictures?]


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 17:16
What have I done??? Don't tell me that I've got other members now agreeing with you on the Fomenko thing?

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 18:06
Originally posted by opuslola

Yes Ian, you do need help, and I am here to help you, and others like you! Just follow the bouncing ball!   

The crazy thing is, that you know my point is a valid one, and one that is ignored by most people.

I do think that the only date that could link 1. the birth of JC; 2. the Egyptian world.; 3. the world of the Tigris and Euphrates.; 4. the Roman Empires. ; 5. the rest of the world!, is the dating of the Pashal/Easter, etc.!
And for centuries it seems it was determined by a small man.


Ron


Ron, your points are valid only in that they serve to cause confusion. Life was much more simply before Fomenko came along. If in fact he did come along. And when was that again? Can you prove it? How?

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 22:50
Sometimes confusion is only in the eye of the beholder.   

It was all made clear by the little guy, Petavius!

How about the four cardinal directions.

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 01:59
How about the four cardinal directions?

They haven't changed, up, down, left, right.

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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 02:10
forward&backward work for 3D-space movements also.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 02:27
Originally posted by toyomotor

What have I done??? Don't tell me that I've got other members now agreeing with you on the Fomenko thing?


if you are mean my post, I don't agree with communistic Fomenko or Opuslola that history only dates from christ/charlemange/gutenberg. [edit post: only calling Fomenko communistic not our friend Ron.] I just don't support the modern orthodox evolutinary/"geological" or egyptological theoretical scheme either though, nor the gentile Egyptian/etc exagerated dates, thats all. River lays between the 2 banks. Compare the quick examples from different egypt-bible schemes

mainstream/orthodox chronology:
11/12th -- patriarchs?
15/16th -- joseph
18th -- moses (old/alt)
18th (amarna) -- joshua (old)
19th -- moses (1200s)
19th -- israel
19/20th -- saul/philistines
21st -- david (1000s)
22nd -- shishak/zerah (900s)
25th -- so/tirhakah/assyrian
26th -- necho (600)

courville's/crisler's:
mesolithic -- postflood
late uruk -- babel
5th/12th -- joseph
6th/13th -- moses
fip/sip -- judges
18th -- shishak
19th -- hezekiah

hoeh's chronology (incomplete):
3rd/4th/12th -- joseph
5th/13th -- moses
7th -- joshua
18th -- sheba/shishak

velikovsky's/glascow chronology
13th -- moses (1400s?)
15/16 -- judges
15/16/18th -- saul
18th -- sheba/ano
18th -- shishak/ano
18th -- zerah
18th (amarna) -- jehoshaphat
[22nd -- so?]
19th/26th -- necho,hophra (600)
19/20th/27th/31st (seapeoples/persians) -- persians

[Moller's]/Wyatt's/[Patterson's]:
3rd/5th -- Joseph
18th -- Moses


fomenko chronology:
none before charlemagne (800)

opuslola's/ron's chronology:
[sea peoples ~ crusaders?]
none before gutenberg

rohl's chronology:
11th/12th -- joseph (1800s)
(12th)/13th -- moses
15/16th -- joshua
18th (amarna) -- saul/david
19th/[20th?] -- shishak (eg isaac newton)
[22nd -- so?]
22nd/23rd -- phoenicians

prometheo's/Drnhawkins chronology:
1st -- Abraham
3rd -- Joseph
12th/13th -- Moses/exodus
15th/16th -- joshua/saul
18th -- david
18th -- sheba
18th -- shishak

david down's:
12th -- moses

boysen's:
18th (nefertiti) -- sheba

arthur-robin's/sean's chronology:
menes not before 2300 bc
1st -- abraham/chedorlaomer (2000s)
3rd(-4th) -- joseph (1800s)
khety -- kohath?
12th/atlantis -- moses (1400s)
... ...
18th (amarna) -- david (1000s)
19th -- shishak/ano (1000s/900s)
19th/20th (mernptah/osarsiph) -- zerah/menelik
21st?/22nd?//25th? -- so
26th -- necho (600)

(others not included/done/finished include compton's, bristowe's, peter jame's, clarity's/engelbrite's, garstang's)


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 02:30
As i see,problem is the zero point!


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 02:45
it must lay in the stars or zodiac (& monuments). Genesis 1 "for times and seasons". the lists of coinciding dates show there definitely was a common reference point, we just haven't yet decrypted it.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 04:41
Originally posted by medenaywe

As i see,problem is the zero point!


Thaat's just the point, according to Fomenko, there is no point.

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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 04:55
What did day Cleopatra die in Egyptian calendar and Roman calendar?


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 18:18
Since beautiful Cleo is entirely connected to the Roman Empire, this might well be a good question?

Give us a good answer toyomotor!

I cannot give either of you a good one, other than the date found in Wiki and friends.

Regards, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 18:59
According to historians, Cleopatra died on August 12, 30 BC.

But, using the Fomenko theory, that all depends on exactly when Jesus was born.

When Jesus was alive, what calendar did they use? And according to that calendar, when was he born, it obviously wasn't the year zero.

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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 21:48
But toyomotor, it means a lot less than you can absorb in large dosages! Smile

Harsh, narrow minded and confrontational. You were fuming? No wheres near what I was after reading your standard regurgitation of the thick headed isolationist mantra, and being referred to as a" loonie" releases me from any restraint.

This site promotes accuracy, it also is enlightened enough to entertain ideas that have previously been ignored. The old isolationist tactic of calling any evidence of contact a "hoax" won't fly here. It's your only option, I realize this, as there is no way to prove no contact.

Thus she dies upon the 12th of "Agustomas"

Sorry have to run.

ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2014 at 21:49
According to Fomenko the crucifixion occurred in 1185 AD, and Jesus was born in 1152 AD. Thus Jesus was born over 600 years after the invention of the numbering system that was named after him.

Fomenko claims that Jesus was born in the 27th year of the reign of Caesar Augustus, who according to Fomenko is Constantine the Great (who therefore gave Christianity state tolerance before Christianity existed). He makes Julius Caesar out to be Constantine Chlorus.

According to Fomenko's theory Cleopatra died fourteen years after the death of Constantine Chlorus in 306 AD, and seventy four years before the death of Augustus Caesar in 44 AD, which works out to be 1122 AD.

I thought this chap was a mathematician?
    


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 00:04
Originally posted by opuslola

But toyomotor, it means a lot less than you can absorb in large dosages! Smile

Harsh, narrow minded and confrontational. You were fuming? No wheres near what I was after reading your standard regurgitation of the thick headed isolationist mantra, and being referred to as a" loonie" releases me from any restraint.

This site promotes accuracy, it also is enlightened enough to entertain ideas that have previously been ignored. The old isolationist tactic of calling any evidence of contact a "hoax" won't fly here. It's your only option, I realize this, as there is no way to prove no contact.

Thus she dies upon the 12th of "Agustomas"

Sorry have to run.

ron


No, I wasn't fuming. No I didn't call you "loonie". Nor did I use the word "hoax". I'm aware of your revisionist views, with which I disagree, but I'll defend to the death.......etc.

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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 00:07
Originally posted by Sidney

According to Fomenko the crucifixion occurred in 1185 AD, and Jesus was born in 1152 AD. Thus Jesus was born over 600 years after the invention of the numbering system that was named after him.

Fomenko claims that Jesus was born in the 27th year of the reign of Caesar Augustus, who according to Fomenko is Constantine the Great (who therefore gave Christianity state tolerance before Christianity existed). He makes Julius Caesar out to be Constantine Chlorus.

According to Fomenko's theory Cleopatra died fourteen years after the death of Constantine Chlorus in 306 AD, and seventy four years before the death of Augustus Caesar in 44 AD, which works out to be 1122 AD.

I thought this chap was a mathematician?
    


I agree with you, I disagree with revisionism!

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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 00:17

12 August in Roman calendar was what day in Egyptian calendar?



Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 04:56
Originally posted by medenaywe

12 August in Roman calendar was what day in Egyptian calendar?



Ron: Who cares???

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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 05:22
Me!Smile


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 15:00
Didn't really want to appear so rude. Of course I do not know.

Sorry Ron

So, go toyomotor and "light up our lives!"

My salivary glands are getting tired. smile

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2014 at 16:33
Please "jump in" medenaywe!

Give us your answer!

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2014 at 16:39
For instance see;

%20 -
%20 -
%20 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_calendar



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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2014 at 16:43
link does not works Ron!Jump me!Smile


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2014 at 18:24
Originally posted by opuslola

Didn't really want to appear so rude. Of course I do not know.

Sorry Ron

So, go toyomotor and "light up our lives!"

My salivary glands are getting tired. smile

Ron
Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. It's just that this Fomenko thing that you're so engrossed in, imho, is Historic Revisionism at its best, and can become very frustrating.
 
I've conceded points on WHAT IF Jesus wasn't born (if in fact he was born at all) when it's said he was.
 
IF he wasn't born when we think, then all dates currently in use are redundant, I accept that.
 
BUT, if we simply forget about JC and concentrate on the Gregorian Calendar, accept it as being accurate, then everything falls into place. If it's not quite the correct place, so be it!


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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2014 at 23:29
But, my respected friend, one must try to understand just how we have received the chronology we now easily use between friends? It did not just appear to one or more experts of the past in a dream from GOD!

It was massaged and squeezed and matriculated from a large mess of crap!

I still ask from you as from others, to show me any "any" source from before the Tenth century CE, that is recognized as an original piece of evidence upon which all chronology should be bound upon?

I would bet you cannot present me with one? If indeed you do find something that you would bet your life upon, then find me one from 500
Ce? Or 200Ce, etc. Soon you will run out of "sure things", and of that I am "SURE!" Smile!

Certainties from before the mass acceptance of the printed word from a printing press, are few and far to be found, if indeed any can be presented without prejudice!!

Even documents from the American revolution, seem to be in danger of turning to dust! Just what was the result of a famous historians trip within Italy searching for "Original" documents, as written by his own hand in the 19th century CE? His name was: Greogorovius!

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Gregorovius"

And his research into early Roman history is available for any one to read. Most all libraries were in horrible condition, and a lot of old manuscript's were brittle with age or already turned to dust!

Regards and Prost!, Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2014 at 01:48
Ron: I have so little interest in the Fomenko school of thought, that I simply couldn't be bothered researching some of his ramblings.
 
I'm happy to live in ignorance and take the Gregorian Calendar as fact.
 
If I'm wrong, so are billions of others, I can live with that.Clown 


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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2014 at 16:15
What about the Julian Calendar? Just what person was the most responsible for the change? If it was so correct then just why did the Julian system continue to rule in some countries for many years?

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2014 at 16:39
Originally posted by medenaywe

link does not works Ron!Jump me!Smile


Medenaywe, please just copy and paste this;

http://www.bing.com/search?q=wiki+Egyptian_calendar&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=MDDCJS

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2014 at 16:43
Look guys, the date of the birth was basically based upon the "transformation" or the date of his death and resurrection Paschal/Easter)!

Only then were the Biblical accounts of his life time and the Ruler of Rome, and Judea at this time.

Ron

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: OPUS
Date Posted: 04-Oct-2019 at 15:03
I'm not really sure of the last post of "Ron - opuslola" !   And, I seem to feel that not all of the words of his were probably understood!  
Ron seems to act as any good teacher would, that is, he would not reveal his answer, instead he seemed to be leading those few who actually responded to make the correct answer(s) and understand the importance of his lesson plan!  Thus he tries to make the reader understand that the "CHRIST" was placed in a position that "CHRIST" and His/her life during the reign of two famous rulers of the so called "ROMAN EMPIRE!"   
Thusly, the considered life of the "Anointed One" provided a pivot for the dating of these so called "Roman" Caesars lives and their histories!  And writers of the past began to connect by hook or by crook to connect the lives of these Caesars to a mess of connections involved with the lives of the Pharos's of Egypt, and too the Rulers of Greece, Asia Minor, Iran, etc., etc.!!   
Remember that the celestial record of Solar Eclipses and those of Lunar, and other big events such as volcanic eruptions, floods, fires, Comet's and special battles and other events were targeted and used as large points of history!   
That is, numerous commentaries of the powerful leaders of certain sections of the world were forever imbedded within the commentaries of local historians and their comments were borrowed and connected to other powerful personages.   
But! in those days (before the printing press) these histories were of a local nature, so King John I, was placed in the local history as assuming the powers of the King in the 30th year of his predecessor of at the death of him/her, or some other event, such as a very fierce comet was seen in the heavens, a volcano blows, the Sun was covered by a shadow, a great earth quake, a river floods, crops all die, a tempest, etc..!   A fleet of war-ships defeated in battle, or whole armies destroyed!  etc..
Or in other sources you will find words like this 230 years after of the death of our LORD!, etc.  meaning from the death and resurrection of JESUS, or "the/our LORD!"  
It is obvious that any comment like the above would make anyone figure that the "Death and Resurrection of Jesus" had already been decided!  And any powerful CHURCH will substantiate that the above was correct, since they worked out this day for decades!  Science had proved the very instant of "The Passion and Resurection " of Jesus was proved via the ability of astrologist to back-track celestial events by scientific methods, I.E. MATHS!  
I will it to the reader to connect the points!
Regards OPUS 


Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2019 at 17:48
Opus/Opuslola is, and has been banned. This time for dual Identities 

Thread closed


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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.



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