Land of Punt!
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: All Empires Community
Forum Name: Historical Amusement
Forum Discription: For role playing and alternative history discussions.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28057
Printed Date: 27-Apr-2024 at 14:13
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Topic: Land of Punt!
Posted By: opuslola
Subject: Land of Punt!
Date Posted: 12-Jan-2010 at 18:09
Tonight watching the "NOVA" special concerning "The Land of Punt", there exist a team who supposedly built an ancient Egyptian boat, and attempted to sail it down the Red Sea to "Punt!", which they and most all of current history consider to be located somewhere upon or without the Southern areas of the Red Sea!
But, obviously, there was no mention of the suspicions of Velikovsky! That is, that "Punt" was the "Levant" or "Jerusalem?"
To me, at least, to present a televised programme concerning on of the most clebrated voygages of Ancient Egypt, that at least some mention of alternative theories might be mentioned? But, of course, these "alternative" suppositions were not mentioned at all.
But, did they deliberately avoid it?
Regards,
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Replies:
Posted By: Moustafa Pasha
Date Posted: 13-Jan-2010 at 22:34
The Expedition to Punt
Hatshepsut ordered a trading expedition, her ships reaching the Land of Punt (to present day Somalia), as commanded by the god Amun-Ra. This was a land rich in products Egyptians desired - myrrh, frankincense, woods, sweet-smelling resin, ivory, spices, gold, ebony, ivory and aromatic trees. Even animals and fish, many of which can be identified today.
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 17-Jan-2010 at 20:39
Dear Moustafa!
I would suggest that you read some of the works of Imanuel Velikovsky, where he goes to great lengths to identify Israel and especially Jerusalem and area, as another possible source of the above precious resins, spices, and aromatics!
Please do not dismiss his ideas based upon second hand information!
regards,
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 03:26
Originally posted by opuslola
Dear Moustafa!
I would suggest that you read some of the works of Imanuel Velikovsky, where he goes to great lengths to identify Israel and especially Jerusalem and area, as another possible source of the above precious resins, spices, and aromatics!
Please do not dismiss his ideas based upon second hand information!
regards, |
Ron, me old China, the following from Wiki:-
The exact location of Punt is still debated by historians. Most scholars today believe Punt was located to the southeast of Egypt, most likely in the coastal region of what is today northern Somalia, Djibouti, Eritrea, Northeast Ethiopia and the Red Sea coast of Sudan.
It goes on to talk about the precious spices etc traded with Egypt.
What do you reckon?
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Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 05:46
Velikovsky's theory was based on a belief that the history presented in the Bible had to be more reliable than other history because it was in the Bible.
He identifies the Land of Punt with Israel because the Egyptians called it 'God's Land', and of course the only land of God in the Bible is Israel - so the two must be the same.
Velikovsky then identifies the visit of the Queen of Sheba to King Solomon in the Bible with the expedition of Queen Hatshepsut to the land of Punt. However Solomon was already in trade with Egypt at this time (he married a Pharaoh's daughter), so 'Sheba' is unlikely to be Egypt (she would be called Queen of Egypt) and so is another country. The Egyptian records also do not say that Hatshepsut went to Punt herself - she sent an envoy.
Egyptian accounts of Punt place it in the south, on a journey that involves crossing land between the Nile and the sea coast. This does not resemble the journey needed to reach Israel. Hence there is no need to mention Israel in the program you saw, as there is no evidence that Punt was in the north.
NB - none of these criticisms have anything to do with Velikovsky's revisionist history, which is necessary to make Hatshepsut a contemporary of Solomon. Many of his observations on the archaeological justification for timelines are enlightening, but are 50 years out of date and need revision themselves.
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2014 at 17:57
So, Punt, if it did exist, was more likely to be on the African coast somewhere between modern Eritrea and perhaps Somalia? Does that sound right?
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 15:22
Dear Sidney, just from memory, I cannot find my Velikovsky books due to renovations) but I don't think a particular direction was mentioned in the Egyptian account.
Ron
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Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 18:32
This is what a stele in Pharaoh Amenhotep III's mortuary temple imagines the God Amun saying to the Pharoah:
"Turning my face to sunrise I created a wonder for you, I made the lands of Punt come here to you, with all the fragrant flowers of their lands, to beg your peace and breathe the air you give."
Velikovsky uses this to show that Punt could be Israel because "towards the sunrise" is towards the east, and if you look at a map of the world Israel is indeed vaguely eastwards of Egypt. However Amenhotep's mortuary temple and the seat of the God Amun is near present day Luxor. Look at the map again, and its clear that traveling from Luxor to Israel would certainly not be described as going eastward.
A different inscription, from the time of Mentuhotep III, records that an expedition to Punt started from Coptos (on the Nile not far north of Luxor)and traveled through the desert to the sea.
'I was sent to conduct ships to the land of Punt, to fetch for Pharaoh sweet-smelling spices...And I started from the city of Coptos....And I set out thence with an army of 3,000 men, and....I had a reservoir of twelve perches dug in a wood, and two reservoirs at a place called Atahet, one of a perch and twenty cubits, and the other of a perch and thirty cubits. And I made another at Ateb, of ten cubits by ten on each side, to contain water of a cubit in depth. Then I arrived at the port.'
This makes no sense if the journey was to Israel, for the route would be to follow the well watered course of the Nile through the Pharaoh's land. Travelling through hostile desert and needing to dig wells fits with a journey going east or south.
Velikovsky avoids disclosing the texts that mention the southern direction of Punt, although he does acknowledge that south is the direction favoured by scholars. He avoids addressing this by claiming that Punt's location is controversial and uncertain. This is deceptive as the controversy existed as to exactly where Punt was within a general area (east and south), not that it's general direction was in dispute.
Even the expedition of Queen Hatshepsut says that they traveled by land and then sea to reach Punt - which is incorrect if they went to Israel, where they would be travelling by sea and then land.
There have been genetic studies done on the bodies of mummified baboons, which the Egyptians had brought back alive from Punt. Their genetic markers most closely matched baboon samples from present day Ethiopia and Eritrea.
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 18:58
Sidney wrote above these words!
"Even the expedition of Queen Hatshepsut says that they traveled by land and then sea to reach Punt - which is incorrect if they went to Israel, where they would be travelling by sea and then land."
Well as my memory lets me, I thought the good Dr. made a very good case for the direction a Queen, based in lower (Southern) Egypt could make the trip from the Luxor area to the Red Sea port, and then across it to the Gulf of Aqaba!
See; http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/gulfofaqaba.htm
There you will see that Egypt had a few special places to go East towards the Gulf of Suez, to one of its most secure ports, and then they might well sail South into the Red Sea, before sailing again North into the Gulf of Aqaba, and then sail mostly North to the port of Elat!
See this map;
%20 - http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/gulfofaqaba.htm
So perhaps the Queen wanted to see all of the land of Punt via the Southernmost part of Solomon's territory, and traveling length of it from South to North! And having a ready fleet of Navy vessels awaiting the Queen at Solomon's port on the MEd.!
Thus this Queen would get to see a large part of the "Kingdom of the Lord!", and its wonders. etc.!
Regards, Ron
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Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 19:54
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It still requires going north in relation to the starting point. Something I've not seen supported in the Egyptian texts.
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Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2014 at 20:03
Originally posted by toyomotor
So, Punt, if it did exist, was more likely to be on the African coast somewhere between modern Eritrea and perhaps Somalia? Does that sound right? |
I've just found Punt Land on the very Horn of Africa.
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