the word stan
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Linguistics
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URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=265
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 11:00
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Topic: the word stan
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Subject: the word stan
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 21:40
| I understand the word "stan" means land...I.E. "Kazahkstan"...land of the Kazakhs...Can anyone tell me what language it is from? |
Replies:
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 21:42
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Persian, literaly means 'place' IIRC. In some contexts, grammer demands it become i-stan, eg. Afghan- Afghanistan, or at least something like that i think. Best to wait for a Persian speaker i guess. Edit: Damn, am i fast or what! Go active topics! -------------  Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 00:38
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Lol thank you
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 02:08
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Nice. In Swedish stad, in it's determined form 'staden' shortened 'stan', originally meant place too. Now it means city, of all things. |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 02:25
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Exactly the same as Dutch then, at least the word stad for town/city.
------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Dari
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 02:44
There's those damn fabled IE connections. Damn Indo-Iranians.  ------------- 
Dari is a pimp master |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 08:11
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in Persian it's actually 'Ostan'. German, 'stadt' ------------- |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 08:46
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Ostan = city ?
------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 08:53
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No, I was just adding that 'stadt' was the German among the lot. Maybe I should have structured better. Ostan transliterates to region from Modern Persian. Kord[o]stan, Tajik[o]stan et al, the change of vowels will be regional variations of the o. ------------- |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 09:58
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Bimar=Sick -> Bimarestan=Hospital ast=is, ist=stop, est=stay, istad=stand, ... Astan = ast+an = is there! or Istan = ist+an = locates there! ------------- 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 10:12
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Hm..cold.... That's what Zam Zam Cola means! By any chance, is Zam a Persian or Arabic word? I heard there's a sacred muslim well in Saudi Arabia that's called Zam..? |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 16:32
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Yes, -(i)stân means "Land of ..." in Persian (example: Tûrkistân/Torkestân means "Land of Turks"). That weel in Mecca is called Zamzam (Zemzem). ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 19:42
 Burg as in Gettysburg-- that burg means city in german I think------------- Grrr.. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2004 at 16:07
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No, berg, burgh, borough, on the end of various city names does not mean city. It indicates that the city is built around a castle or has a castle.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2004 at 18:22
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Your question is already answered, so I can only add extra information. -estân/-istân is from the root of "es" and its use in Iranian nouns or verbs varies from the meaning of "standing" to "existing", "to be".
an example: Iranian: ast French: est Greman: ist English: is If you and anyone esle is interested in etymology check here: http://www.geocities.com/indoeurop/project/phonetics/word23. html BTW, about the German "burg", there's a similar word in Iranian; "borg" which later turned into "borj". It means tower/fortified structure. And about zam... besides coldness, there's the Iranian word zamin/zemin" (earth) derived from this root. It's similar to Polish zimny, zima, ziemia (coldness, winter, earth) and the Latvian word zemi (earth). Slavic people could probably add more (and correct me, if I'm mistaken). |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 14:16
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Date in English means a day or year when a given (dat in Persian) event occured, the land of these dates is the old Persian word Datestan (Modern Persian Dastan) which means story or history. -------------
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Posted By: Rava
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2004 at 15:52
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In the old Polish stan meant government, country (in political term), also social class. There are some old cities like Bia³ogard and Starogard in Poland bearing suffics -gard remaining an old iranian topoformant. Interesting, -gard varies from usual Polish form -gród. In "To the Questions of Origin of the Name Hashimgird" S. Kamoliddin wrote: "The forming word -gird (with the variants -gard, -kard, -kird, -kirt, -jird) has been belonged to before Islamic toponymic layer of the Western Iranian circle of place names, and was widespread on the territory of Iran and Transcaucasia as in ancient times, as in early medieval ages. On the territory of Central Asia it has been brought and spread mainly in the Southern regions of Central Asia - Northern Khorasan and Tokharistan."
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 28-Aug-2004 at 10:09
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Anyway Poland was the land of Sarmatians in a period! Gard (Avestan Varet) = turn, revolve (Velgard=Vagrant, Doregard=Pedlar) Gard (Pahlavi Garta) = Dust, Powder Gerd (Pahlavi Girt) = Cirlce But the suffix "-gerd" (Parthian Kart, Old Persian Krata , Arabicized Jerd) which forms place names, means "built" or "constructed". For example the famous city of Borujerd in Loristan province was a Parthian city which was built by Orodes, in Parthian sources it has been mentioned as "Orud-kart" (built by Orodes) and in Sassanid sources as "Vorugerd". There are many cities in Iran with this suffix such as Susangerd in Khuzestan, Darabgerd in Fars, Dastgerd in Isfahan, ... -------------
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Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 16:56
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Yes, Ordu (Orda in Mongolian) was an Old Turkic word meaning Military Camp, I think it was recorded in Han Dynasty sources as a Xiongnu word. ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 17:25
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Zagros is technically right, but in america a burg is an ending to a city. Like I lived in a place called Lawrenceburg (which had no castle). It seems to be an ending that just became synonomous with town when all the german immigrants came over. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Burg as in Gettysburg-- that burg means city in german I thinkPosted By: Rava
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2004 at 17:41
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Ordynek- is old polish military term meaning formation before a battle. However it could be traced back to german ordnung as well. Another polish word "horda" has same meaning as english hordes. By the way I know couple of people whose bear Tatars surnames mostly polonized like: Aka/cki, Braule, Abram/owicz, Nazar/ewicz. All of them have slight eastern look. |
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 01:06
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-stan is used by Armenians as well but i believe the roots of the suffix is Persian, but im not sure because many languages use it. The word Armenia in Armenian is Hayastan (Hay, pronounced Hai, meaning Armenian), and we call Iran Barskastan (Barsik (probably derived from Parsi) meaning Persian). ------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Õ”Õ«Õ¹ Õ¥Õ¶Ö„ Õ¢Õ¡ÕµÖ Õ€Õ¡Õµ Õ¥Õ¶Ö„Ö‰ |
Posted By: Umbrella
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2004 at 10:59
| I've seen many theories about -stân in here by "volunteer" "linguists", the fact it that it's an Iranic word that is formed from old Iranic verb stâ- "stay-/stand-" with the the suffix -n-. In it's most archaic meaning it ment "stay-place" > "camp", also in ancient toponyms it's only used in placed that are dwelled by Iranic ppl, Armenian has many loanwords from middle western Iranian languages, above all Parthian. |
Posted By: Dari
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2004 at 10:29
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This proves the indirect evidence of influence by Ino-Iranic langauges with other Indo-European branch langauges. -------------
Dari is a pimp master |
Posted By: Jazz
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 01:25
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I always assumed "-stan" to be in Indic origin, but then northern India
has been invaded so many times it is possible that it came to India
from somewhere else.... India = Hindustan Pakistan etc etc. The Indian name for Europeans for a long time was Farangi (derived from the term "Franks" as this is that the Byzantines called Western Europeans and this filtered through Arabic and somewhere got corrupted into Ferungi.) Indians used to refer to Europe then as "Farangistan". ------------- http://www.forums.internationalhockey.net/index.php?/index.php?referrerid=8 - International Hockey Forums |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 01:33
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IIRC, the Arabic was Franji, so it makes sense. Hehe, Ferengi, rule of aquisition number one........ ------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 05:13
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Farang and Faragnstan are obviously Persian words, I think these words were mostly used after the Crusades, for example the great Persian poet Nizami (1141 - 1209) says: Farang-e Palestine o Rahban-e Rum or Rumi (1207 - 1273) says to Shams of Tabriz: Dar Ayeneh aks-e Qeysar-e Rum Dar Quds-e delat cho khuk didi If you look at the mirror but you don't see Caesar of Rome, you should know that the mirror has rust. If you see some pigs (unclean animals/things) in your holy (Quds/Jerusalem) heart, that is still Quds but there are some Farangis! -------------
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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 11:50
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I always knew in Turkish -istan means "land of" but I didn't know where it came from. A Persian friend of mine says -stan came from Farsi meaning "land of". |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 21:59
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It implies land of, but literaly means 'place' or perhaps 'place of' IIRC. But it is persian.
------------- Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2005 at 22:40
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Great! Those were some great explanations on etymology. I loved them!! Thank you all ------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon" 
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Posted By: Jazz
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 01:47
------------- http://www.forums.internationalhockey.net/index.php?/index.php?referrerid=8 - International Hockey Forums |
Posted By: Capt. Lubber
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 09:01
That's interesting, because gard means farm in modern norwegian, but in old norse it could mean city as well. Miklagard was the norse name for constantinople for example, and russia was called gardarike, and Novgorod was called Holmgard ------------- Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror, Deyde in his sleep, with shame and dishonour, Bleedinge ay at the nose in dronkenesse, A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse |
Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 10:54
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I love etymology!! In fact I sort of came up with the "burgh" solution long time ago, but I couldn't find anything in books. now it all make sense. amertat, what was ur source? ------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2005 at 11:07
Don't know his sources, but he is indeed correct. Borg is an old IE word meaning fort (and interestingly the pronounciation has turned into "borj" in modern Swedish too, even if it's spelled borg). |
Posted By: tzar
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2005 at 06:21
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In Bulgarian word "stan" means camp! ------------- Everybody listen only this which understands. |
Posted By: jayeshks
Date Posted: 04-May-2005 at 16:23
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bah, I already posted this in another thread but 'stan' with a soft t is a root in Sanskrit as well meaning 'place'. eg. janmsthan = birth+place |