From Babylon to Scandinavia!
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Alternative History
Forum Discription: Discussion of Unorthodox Historical Theories & Approaches
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26220
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 16:21
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: From Babylon to Scandinavia!
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: From Babylon to Scandinavia!
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 19:51
|
It was interesting for me when I found some similarites between Babylonian Aloros and Scandinavian Ollerus. http://xenohistorian.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/the-babylonian-connection-redone/ - http://xenohistorian.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/the-babylonian-connection-redone/ “Aloros, a Chaldean from Babylon, was the first king of the land and he reigned for ten Saroi. They say that he spread the story about himself that God appointed him shepherd of the people.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullr - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullr "When Odin was exiled, Ollerus was chosen to take his place. Ollerus ruled under the name Odin for ten years until the true Odin was called back, whereupon Ollerus retired to Sweden where he was slain by Danes." I couldn't find any website which talks about it but there are several websites (especially religious ones) which talk about "The Identity of the Scandinavian Odin and Adon of Babylon": http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab048.htm - http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab048.htm
------------- 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 11:42
|
Odin name has a scythian origin so the connection is nothing else than the scythian religion TEN=god Herodotos wrote that the scythian river god of the Dnyeper named borysthenes(isten=god, ten=god, tenger=sea, tengri=god). The root of the word odin is this ten with an 'o' phoneme which indicate that this god is an old, elder, ruler figure. The hungarian word isten has a same meaning. Is, ush, os=ancestor, elder+ten=ISTEN "T. Heyerdahl and P. Lillieström (2001) believe that the Scandinavian god Odin was indeed a Proto-Slavonic king who lived near the Sea of Azov (now it is the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia) in 100 - 200 A.D. Then this king was forced out by the Romans from the area of the Don river and settled down in Scandinavia. This hypothesis is based on the data obtained during the excavations of the Russian-Norwegian archaeological expedition under the leadership of T. Heyerdahl at the town Azov, the Rostov-on-Don region, Russia, in 2001. " http://public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl46.htm Fake bullshit but some information is correct(the slavic langauges have a scythian superstrate, the slavic people have a big ammount of sarmatian-scythian genetic marker) |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 17:36
Because the names are similar? Sad to spoil the fun, but his name was Ullr. The Latin-writing people added -us to make it sound Latin and scholarly.
Which is total bull. His hypothesis comes from too literal reading of Snorri, nothing else. The diggings, which were very much reported about about here, showed nothing that could support the hypothesis. Thor Heyerdahl had his qualities, but he had too many hyperdiffusionist conspiracy theories to be taken seriously as an historian. --- I can't even bother responding to the rest. I find the whole idea ridiculous. I'd like to see an explanation how an invading people manage to fool the locals that they are gods. How stupid wouldn't they have to be? The attempt to link Quetzalcoatl to some Viking on a tourist trip in the Caribbean is equally ludicrous, insulting and outright stupid.
May I suggest reading books written by historians (modern ones) instead of wikipedia and other websites written by teenage conspiracy nutters? |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 20:59
Good post!  Of course the word "tengri" for God sounds Turkish, not Iranian. The very Iranian word for "God" is "Goda" (Modern Persian "Khoda"). Anyway Scythian connection is a really good and logical mention.-------------
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2009 at 21:29
|
I think the word tengri is originated from the scythian langauge to the proto-turkic. The scythians maybe borrowed this word from the hattic-hittite(istan, istanu=sun god) The older sekler-hungarian runic scriptures use the form Estan, Ustan, Usten. Maybe the sumerian dingir(hurrian or mitannian connection, they used this sumerian word) is the origin. |
Posted By: Boreasi
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 03:14
|
The late Thor Heyerdahl was an eminent Norwegian anthropologist whose researches into the spread of early human cultures led him to undertake several historically accurate re-enacted voyages aboard the types of vessels current among the ancient mariners whom he was studying. Through decades of study, diffusionist anthropologists such as he had noted many shared cultural traits common to the ancient Egyptians and the New World peoples. To ascertain the possibility that cultural contacts had existed in the second millennium BC, he and a small crew undertook two expeditions in 1969 from Morocco to the West Indies aboard papyrus reed vessels (Ra I, Ra II) reconstructed according to Egyptian details dating back over three millennia. These voyages demonstrated both the inherent seaworthiness of reed bundle vessels and the feasibility that such vessels could indeed have successfully made such journeys millennia ago from West Africa to the Caribbean and beyond by following ocean currents. This reader has also reviewed Heyerdahl's account of these voyages, entitled The Ra Expeditions.
In his researches, Heyerdahl, other anthropologists, and archaeologists had noted records of shared contacts among the ancient cultures of Sumeria, the Indus Valley, Dilmun, and Punt. In 1978, Heyerdahl and a crew of ten undertook a voyage of five months' duration from the Shatt-al-Arab in southern Iraq, formerly known as Mesopotamia, through the Arabian Gulf, the Gulf of Oman, and the Indian Ocean to Djibouti, this time aboard a larger vessel again built of berdi reeds reproducing the ancient Sumerian ma-gur ('god-ship') design. The Tigris Expedition is his fascinating account of that voyage. Heyerdahl discusses the seeming spontaneous development of comparable highly developed civilizations around the year 3000 BC in geographically dispersed centres -
Egypt's Nile valley, the Indus valley, Crete, and Mesopotamia - as significant in light of the Mayan calendar's origin date of 3113 BC and Plato's account of the destruction of Atlantis. He notes that recent archaeological researches compel science to re-examine and refine the accepted wisdom of the origins of human civilization. This reader finds Heyerdahl's careful open-minded spirit of scientific inquiry and his willingness to consider new evidence in refining his theories refreshing.
http://www.amazon.ca/Tigris-Expedition-Search-Our-Beginnings/dp/0385173571 - http://www.amazon.ca/Tigris-Expedition-Search-Our-Beginnings/dp/0385173571
In Search of the GodsThe Kon-Tiki trip was kid stuff. Now Thor Heyerdahl is off to find King Odin's legendary home
(Newsweek, August, 2001) http://www.mywire.com/a/Newsweek/Search-of-Gods/313956?&pbl=27 - http://www.mywire.com/a/Newsweek/Search-of-Gods/313956?&pbl=27
Scandinavian Ancestry
Tracing Roots to Azerbaijan by Thor Heyerdahl EXCERPTS:
The first time I came to Azerbaijan was in 1981. There weren't very many visitors from outside the Iron Curtain who came here back in those days. My invitation came from Azerbaijan's Academy of Sciences. I started thinking about why the Academy of Sciences in Azerbaijan would invite me and it dawned on me that I was in a very unique situation at the time because I was both a member of the New York Academy of Sciences and had received an Honorary Doctorate from the Soviet Academy of Sciences. I didn't believe in barriers between nations. I believed in people, not political parties.
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/82_folder/82_photos/82_581_gobustan2.jpg">
 I believe there was contact by ships along the rivers and oceans long before civilization began. Earlier this century, nobody believed that people could navigate with the kinds of vessels that men were using 5,000 years ago. So I was fighting with scientists from all over the world - on both sides of the Iron Curtain - for my theory of ocean migration. I spent most of my time answering attacks in scientific publications. I had friends in Russia who sent me translations of these attacks. I answered back and my defense was published in Russian. Of course, it took quite a bit of time...
--- Scientists at that time insisted that no American Indian could have left America before Columbus, and no people could have reached America before Columbus except via the Bering Straits in the Arctic. This is where I learned how important it is for scientists to collaborate across different branches of science. I had my university training in biology, geography and physical anthropology. I had biological proof that someone must have brought certain plants from South America to Polynesia - for instance, the sweet potato, which only grew in South America. It could not have drifted alone across the ocean without the help of man...
---
Visiting Azerbaijan
And so, after those three expeditions on three different oceans, I was invited to visit Azerbaijan. I came here because I had established good contacts with scientists in this country, and I had learned that you had something quite sensational at Gobustan. I came to Azerbaijan as a guest of the Academy of Sciences in Azerbaijan to see the petroglyphs in Gobustan...
On my first visit, I came to study the reed ships that are similar to the boats of the ancient Mediterranean. But on my second visit, I learned that the people in Azerbaijan call themselves Azeri. I remembered from my school days that we have legends in Norway woven into Norwegian history in such an intricate way that we don't know where history starts and mythology ends. But the documented history of Norway dates back more than 800 years. Traditions about the original homeland of our ancestors were recorded in the 8th century in Ireland and say that we are descendants of the land of the Aser... Early Scandinavian History
We learn of the line of royal families in Denmark, Sweden and Norway. But we didn't take these stories about our beginnings seriously because they were so ancient. We thought it was just imagination, just mythology. The actual years for the lineage of historic kings began around the year 800 AD. So we learned all the kings in the 1,000 years that followed and did not interest ourselves in earlier names. But I remember from my childhood that the mythology started with the god named Odin. From Odin it took 31 generations to reach the first historic king. The record of Odin says that he came to Northern Europe from the land of Aser. I started reading these pages again and saw that this was not mythology at all, but actual history and geography. Snorre, who recorded these stories, started by describing Europe, Asia and Africa, all with their correct names, Gibraltar and the Mediterranean Sea with their old Norse names, the Black Sea with the names we use today again, and the river Don with its old Greek name, Tanais. So, I realized that this has nothing to do with the gods who lived with the Thunder god Thor among the clouds. Snorre said that the homeland of the Asers was east of the Black Sea. He said this was the land that chief Odin had, a big country. He gave the exact description: it was east of the Black Sea, south of a large mountain range on the border between Europe and Asia, and extended southward towards the land of the Turks. This had nothing to do with mythology, it was on this planet, on Earth. Then came the most significant point. Snorre says: "At that time when Odin lived, the Romans were conquering far and wide in the region. When Odin learned that they were coming towards the land of Asers, he decided that it was best for him to take his priests, chiefs and some of his people and move to the Northern part of Europe." The Romans are human beings, they are from this planet, they are not mythical figures. Then I remember that when I came to Gobustan, I had seen a stone slab with Roman inscriptions. I contacted the Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan. I was taken to the place, and I got the exact wording of the inscription. There's a very logical way of figuring out when this was written. It had to be written after the year 84 AD and before the year 97 AD. If this inscription matched Snorre's record, it would mean that Odin left for Scandinavia during the second half of the 1st century AD. Then I counted the members of the generations of kings, every king up to the grandfather of the king that united Norway into one kingdom, because such information is available - around 830 AD. In anthropology we reckon 25 years per generation for ruling kings. In modern times, a generation may extend up to 30 years, but on average the length of a generation in early reigns is 25 years. When you multiply 31 generations by 25 years, you come exactly back to the second half of the 1st century AD. So there is proof that these inscriptions carved by the Romans in stone coincide with the written history written almost 1,800 years ago in Iceland. We all know that the Northern people are called Caucasian. Here is where history, archeology, geography and anthropology come together... Blond-Haired Mummies
In the meantime we have contacts with the Academies of Sciences in 11 nations. We do not want to leave anything out. The most surprising discovery was when we contacted Communist China. They had discovered blond-haired mummies in the Karim Desert deep inside China, so perfectly preserved in the cold climate and salty earth that you could see the color of the skin and hair. The Chinese archeologists were surprised because these mummies were not Mongoloids at all; they suspected instead that they were Vikings.
But it didn't make sense to me that Vikings should be deep inside the deserts of China. When the Chinese archeologists conducted radio-carbon dating, they determined that the mummies were of Nordic type dating from 1,800 to 1,500 years BC. But the Viking period started around 800 AD. It then became obvious that these mummies were not Vikings who had come to China. Here was a missing link. And again the Caucasus enters into the picture as a mutual migratory center. But this is not the end of the story. These mummies were dressed in cloth that had been woven, and the colors and the woven pattern were of a very specific type. The Chinese themselves studied the mummies and then invited American experts to study the clothing who determined that the weave and coloring were typical of the Celts of Ireland. But this made no sense at all. Then we contacted Ireland to get their sagas, and their written saga says that their ancestors were Scythians. So, again, their roots come back here to the Caucasus... Read the entire article:
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/82_folder/82_articles/82_heyerdahl.html - http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/82_folder/82_articles/82_heyerdahl.html ------------- Be good or be gone. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:14
|
That is really interesting, lets compare some words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berg,_%C3%98stfold - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berg,_%C3%98stfold Berg is a former municipality in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98stfold - Østfold county, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway - Norway . The parish of Berg was established as a municipality January 1, 1838 (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formannskapsdistrikt - formannskapsdistrikt ). The rural municipality was (together with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idd - Idd ) merged with the city of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden - Halden January 1, 1967. There two words "Berg" and "Halden", I had talked about "Burg/Berg":
http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=%5Cdata%5Cie%5Cpiet&first=1&text_proto=&method_proto=substring&ic_proto=on&text_meaning=tower&method_meaning=substring&ic_meaning=on&text_hitt=&method_hitt=substring&ic_hitt=on&text_tokh=&method_tokh=substring&ic_tokh=on&text_ind=&method_ind=substring&ic_ind=on&text_avest=&method_avest=substring&ic_avest=on&text_iran=&method_iran=substring&ic_iran=on&text_arm=&method_arm=substring&ic_arm=on&text_greek=&method_greek=substring&ic_greek=on&text_slav=&method_slav=substring&ic_slav=on&text_balt=&method_balt=substring&ic_balt=on&text_germ=&method_germ=substring&ic_germ=on&text_lat=&method_lat=substring&ic_lat=on&text_ital=&method_ital=substring&ic_ital=on&text_celt=&method_celt=substring&ic_celt=on&text_alb=&method_alb=substring&ic_alb=on&text_rusmean=&method_rusmean=substring&ic_rusmean=on&text_refer=&method_refer=substring&ic_refer=on&text_comment=&method_comment=substring&ic_comment=on&text_any=&method_any=substring&sort=proto&ic_any=on - Click Here :
Proto-IE: *bhurgh- ?
Meaning: watch-tower
Armenian: burgn `Turm'
Germanic: http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/ie/germet&text_number=++1843&root=config - *burg- c., *burg-ia- n.
 Comments: A Wanderwort: cf. Arm burgn `toren', Aram burgin, burgon, Arab burǯ `kleine festing' (all probably from Hurro-Urartian and Caucasian). Greek pǘrgos is a loanword, as it show phonetics.
So this word which can be found just in some Indo-European languages, has in all probability a Hurro-Urartian origin from a region between Caspian and Black seas, and you know about Haldi, the chief god of Hurru-Urartians: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/252282/Haldi - http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/252282/Haldi
Haldiancient god /EBchecked/topic/252282/Haldi/252282main - - Urartu, which ruled the plateau around http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/622548/Lake-Van - Lake Van , now eastern Turkey, from about 900 to about 600 bc.
But the intersting thing is about the word "Halden" (Haldian) in the Behistun inscription of Darius the Great:
Darius the King says: While I was in Persia and Media, again a second time the Babylonians became rebellious from me. One man named Arkha, an Armenian, of Haldian descendant, he rose up in Babylon. A district named Dubala from there he thus lied to the people: "I am Nebuchadrezzar the son of Nabonidus." Thereupon the Babylonian people became rebellious from me, (and) went over to that Arkha. He seized Babylon; he became king in Babylon.
Armenians have always called themselves "Hay" and their land "Hayastan": http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Asia/Armenia/_Texts/KURARM/8*.html - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/Asia/Armenia/_Texts/KURARM/8*.html
Origin of the name "Hay"
The etymology of the word Hay still remains a controversial problem. Some authorities derive it from Pet, of an Indo-European language root, meaning ruler. It is said that the Armens who invaded Armenia were called by the subjugated natives Pet. Strange as it may seem, comparative philology has certain formulae of linguistic evolution which make it possible for Pet to become in the course of ages, Hay. For the word peter or pater (father) the Armenian has hayr (pronounced hire), while the word for mother is mayr (pronounced mire). But other scholars find the origin of Hay in Khald or Hald, the name of the national god Khaldis, worshipped by the early inhabitants of Armenia. Kh here is pronounced like the guttural Χ of the Greek alphabet or the German ch. The ancient Urartean Empire, of which the city of Van was the capital, is known to some scholars also as the Vannic, but more generally as the Khaldean or Haldian empire. By a process of phonetic evolution, Khald becomes Khayd, and then sloughing off the final d, we have Khay. In fact, places still in existence around the Lake of Van were, before the Armenian deportation in the First World-War, called Khaik or Khek, meaning Armenians. In many districts, villages spoke of themselves as Khay, and still thought of the country as Khayastan. -------------
|
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:34
|
Is it possible that Odin comes from "Haldin/Khaldean (Chaldean)"? -------------
|
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:35
Berg is indeed related to burg. They both come from an old IE word meaning rock, cliff, or mountain - they do exist or existed in many IE languages (Armenian berj, Celtic bri, beinn). Hald, or rather hall, simply means slope. It's also an old IE word (ON hallr, OE heall, related to Latin collis, Lithuanian kalnas) and both names are simply referring to the natural surroundings of the places.
No. Odin is a younger form of Vodin or the German Wotan. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2009 at 11:43
|
Urartian: burg-ana, fortress |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2009 at 19:35
|
Whoa! Cyrus, when I mentioned Alp Arslan, and contrived to find in such a name something Danish or Scandanavian, etc., I did not know of the above conversations! Arslan might well be but version of Arsland?
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS315US315&q=Arsland Which seems to be a somewhat common name in Norway at least. I would suggest that you also look at this site; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aslan_(disambiguation) Where you will see the names Kilij, then compare it to this; http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kjetil-%C3%A5rsland/9/409/994 Do you think there might be some connection of Norwegian Kjetil and Turkish Kilij? Just some fun with names, and I even used that evil Wikipedia! Laugh! It just slays me when I see egotistical people like your friend above ridicule the site! I would suggest that on the whole, Wikipedia, if the site has not be recently edited to death, by people like me, gives a very accurate picture of the consensual past of our world. Stybiorn, while probably very smart does not play well with others! chuckle! In regards to at least some of the above conversations, I would speak or write for a while about the area around Lake Van, which was mentioned above. But, before that, what do you know about the two salt water lakes in the Eastern portion of Turkey? Without wasting time, they are, I understand, inigmas to science, since they occur a great deal above sea level, etc. But back to Van and vicinity, I consider the so called Hittite (Hattite it seems would be more correct, as would Othman rather than Ottman, etc.) empire is merely a created empire designed to solve other historical problems. If you really read about its so called discovery you might well come to the same conclusion? And further more, I wonder if it is not but a figmented (as well as fragmented)image of the later / newer and also strange areas of Asia Minor, which have been variously called Phrygia (Frigia?), Lydia,and Galatia, etc. Phrygia is really in my cross hairs, since the famous Phrygian Hat or Cap, seems to have existed as a favorite of numerous people across Europe for over 1000 years, its most lasting placement was upon the head of Lady Liberty during the French revolution!! But enough of my speculation for now, it is enough for me to know that there are others on this site that love "word play" (Etymology sometimes) besides myself. chuckle Oh, by the way, maybe there is only one salt lake? http://www.allaboutturkey.com/tuzlake.htm Highest regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Oct-2009 at 01:16
Yes, I love "word play", that is really a good game!  But you should find somethings more than these simple similarities, of course about Scandinavia and Iran, the similarities of the place names are so huge that I have to say it itself proves something, yesterday about this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27784 - Badab Surt Lake in Orost, a Natural Wonder , I wanted to find more info about Orust (اروست) in Iran but that seems to be just in Sweden!-------------
|
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 19-Jan-2010 at 20:14
|
Cyrus, it is a lot more than a "game" to me! I will even state, that to a lot of the so called "ancients" it was the "Ultimate Game!" Much as in the regard that some of these "ancients" gave to the game of "Chess" or maybe one of its deriveratives?, or originals?
But, as this post of mine is a response to the title of this thread / title, I.e., "From Babylon to Scandinavia!" You, at least, are left to at least one or two alternatives! That is, just what "Babylon" can you be disussing? You must note that there exists more than one alternative to this topic? Did, you know that there suposedly existed a "Babylon" in Egypt? It was, reportedly a Roman city?, for what ever that means? But, of course, we might well consider that almost any great "port city" might well be considered to be a "City of Bable / Babel", to anyone who visited or passed through it? If the above since is taken, then we might well consider that Rome, or Carthage, or Byzantium / Constantinople, or Caesari, or Tyre, or Ravenna, or Portus, etc., might well have been described by more than one sources as "the City of Bable/Bablel?" Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 05:34
|
opuslola, you seems to be really a religious man, it's not bad at all but I myself don't believe in what is said about "Tower of Babel" and confusion of languages, of course it is possible that you didn't mean it. -------------
|
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 06:57
|
No Cyrus, I place no faith in the Biblical account, I rather think that this story is merely a response of one or more people from a quiet backwater town, who are suddenly thrust into a busy trading centre, where a multitude of languages are being spoken.
My main point is that the word "babble" http://www.answers.com/topic/babbling %20 - "[Middle English babelen.]" Is most likely the origin of the name given to a city or city state that we call Babylon! And also the source of the word "Babel" to describe the confusion of language, etc.! I merely meant to bring to your attention that historically there was another place, alongside of a river that was reportedly known as "Babylon", and it was located supposedly in or around Memphis, Heliopolis or On!, in Egypt. Of course the very mention of "Heliopolis" can also create problems, please see; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliopolis %20 - "Héliopolis, a town in France situated on the Île du Levant" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele_du_Levant %20 - Thus, it seems that France has an island called "Levant", which can either mean "East" or "Holy Land?" Please note that 90% is "off limits" to tourists, explorers, etc. But, it seems, some part of this island is called Heliopolis! But, that might well just be a joking reference to the nude part of the island? Laugh! I.e. "Sun Worship!" Note the community of Heliopolis was reportedly founded in 1932! But, we also have to notice that this island is located very near to the port city of Toulon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toulon %20 - Where we read; "In the second century BC the residents of Massalia (present-day Marseille) called upon the Romans to help them pacify the region. The Romans defeated the Ligurians and began to start their own colonies along the coast. A Roman settlement was founded at the present location of Toulon, with the name Telo Martius - Telo, either for the goddess of springs or from the Latin tol, the base of the hill - and Martius, for the god of war. Telo Martius became one of the two principal Roman dye manufacturing centers, producing the purple color used in imperial robes, made from the local sea snail called murex, and from the acorns of the oak trees." So, this area, this port city, near "the Levant!", like Tyre!, produced the purple dye taken from the murex snail! And, in addition, from the above site; "1543: Francis I invites the fleet of Ottoman Admiral Barbarossa to Toulon as part of the Franco-Ottoman alliance. The residents are forced to leave, and the Ottoman sailors occupy the town for the winter (see Siege of Nice#The Turks in Toulon)." What a strange event! And this small account does little to explain what really happened at this time. There exists a good deal of other information on the inter-net! But, this city, located in Provence, already had suffered the religious crusade against the Cathars, and it spoke a version of a Romantic language called "Occitain!", which is most similar to "Catalan!" today. So, certainly, at one time, Toulon was a place where a "babble" of voices could be heard? If you are familar with the works of Baigent, Leigh and Lincoln, in their book "Holy Blood Holy Grail", then you might enjoy this remark from the above site? "^ A legend which states that a certain Cleon accompanied St. Lazarus to Gaul and was the founder of the Church of Toulon, is based on a fourteenth century forgery that was ascribed to a sixth-century bishop named Didier." For more understanding perhaps you will want to read this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Nice#The_Turks_in_Toulon Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 08:27
|
English Babble can be related to Persian Bulbul which means "chatty, songbird" or Greek Barbarous for non-Greek-speaking people, anyway it is possible that the word Babel also relates to these words. -------------
|
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2010 at 10:13
Of course your words above are also most likely to be the result of the same idea and base! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2010 at 19:52
|
Could there be any connection between "Babbleon" and "Babylon?", is "babble" the same as "babel?"
Do any of you know about the Roman "Babylon?" in Egypt? Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Hrodvitnir9
Date Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 06:39
| There has never been any credible evidence to support the idea Odin is based off of a real person. This theory was first mentioned in the 11th century by Saxo Grammaticus who was admittedly trying to discredit Norse Paganism. The oldest form of the name Odin is Wodanaz which is Proto-Germanic and has nothing to do with Scythian language or religion. The name Odin is the modern Anglicized version of the Old Norse name Odinn. Its laughable to suggest the name Odin has any relation to a Babylonian name. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 14:20
|
If one looks at anything related to the distant past, then you should recognize that, as you said; "There has never been any credible evidence to support the idea (that)" Odin, or Caesar, or Jesus, etc., "is based off of a real person."
We must remember that we only ascertain certain personages of the past due to a couple of things. First the name or some semblence of the name is found cut into rock at some place! Second, that original sources, now gone, are mentioned by later sources where certain name resemblance is or was seen, but the originals of their work is also now gone,etc.! Third, most every thing we think of as fact is in reality only supposition! But, all of this supposition has been covered in academic clay and made into a full figured example of ancient personages! But, my above examples are rough and hardly understandable even to me! So, I shall try again later! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Sharrukin
Date Posted: 30-Apr-2010 at 17:25
|
The original Babylonian (or rather Sumerian) name was Alulim.
|
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 01-May-2010 at 09:57
I think that's been done quite often throughout history, hasn't it? Herakles, Hektor, Akhilles, Alejandros have all each had his time. The masses are always eager to welcome a new, more glorious, more heroic 'God'.
If you have the power of life and death over everyone, then that's it. For all intents and purposes, you're 'God'! But you might need a little help from the local High Priest or High Priestess to facilitate the persuasion. Normally they'll only be too willing, cos they value their lives too!
You lead a vicious, formidable, ferocious band of warriors to victory over any tribe or nation, and then ... Voila! Lo & behold! You're the new true God of War!
I wouldn't underrate a young geek so much if I were ya. They do come up with some amazing stuff sometimes. ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-May-2010 at 14:08
|
SoD, you did mean young Greek, rather than "geek" did you not? Laugh!
Wait, most young people who really understand computers are "geeks!", so perhaps I was wrong? LOL 
Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 12-May-2010 at 05:15
|
Nope. I really meant a young 'geek'. In response to a post by Styrbion who had said: "May I suggest reading books written by historians (modern ones) instead of wikipedia and other websites written by teenage conspiracy nutters?"  ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 12-May-2010 at 23:23
| Odin came from the Celtic god Lugus-- Odin was first embraced by the Chatti ( a German tribe on the border of Celtic lands) Until this time Tyr was the norse god, Odin didn't play a role in Germanic relgions until the migration period. |
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 12-May-2010 at 23:25
| Also didn't the Franks claim to be descendents of the Trojans |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 12-May-2010 at 23:48
|
Some guys say the name 'Frank' derived from "Fraggoi', which was what the Romans called the Phrygians, allies of the Trojans. As for Trojan lineage, many European royal houses seemed to have had a certain predisposition towards claiming Trojan ancestry, likely due to Troy having been the oldest n perhaps most glorious royal dynasty with any link to European history, whether proven or otherwise.
The Roman aristocracy and the Irish kings, for instance, both claimed ancestry from 2 royal geneaologies branching from Prince Aeneas, nephew of King Priam n cousin of Prince Hector.
Aeneas my hero, King and Protector of Dardania. The inspiration for my name.
Anatolia-Levant having been a massive ethno-cultural melting pot, the Germanic Chatti also could have been linked to the Anatolian Khatti/Hatti, who along with Phrygians, Trojans, Assyrians, perhaps also Israelites, went out into Europe in a sort of large scale exodus, post-Troy. They all, of course, already had allies based in the Balkans, i.e. the Thracians. ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 13-May-2010 at 02:06
|
Now, let's just say, Prince Aeneas had an affair with a beautiful Assyrian princess, just before he got caught up in the politico-military complications of the Trojan War. The lovey-dovey, hopelessly-in-love couple soon married in secret, according to ancient Assyrian rites.
The said princess later bore a son, without Aeneas knowing anything about it. A descendant of that son eventually married into Babylonian royalty, thereby becoming an ancestor of Nebuchadnezzar I. An ancestor of Hastayaga (Astyages), a king of Medea, Nebuchadnezzar's overlord, married Nebu's daughter in a political alliance. That union ultimately gave rise to Hastayaga.
Hastayaga was blessed with a beautiful daughter, named Mandane. Princess Mandane was later given in marriage to Kambujiya (Cambyses I), Persian co-ruler of Anshan (jointly with Arsames, father of Darius), again a political alliance. The union, of course, produced Khouroush-e-Bozorg (Cyrus the Great). Well, something like that. There ya go, now we have Khouroush-e-Bozorg (Cyrus the Great), descendant of Aeneas of Dardania. Sounds credible enough, I think.  ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 14-May-2010 at 12:01
Wasn't Odin a son of Thor/Tyr?
The Galati (of Anatolia) had the Khatti/Hatti as their neighbours. Centuries later, the Galli/Keltoi of Europe had the Chatti as their neighbours. Sounds familiar? A bit like history repeating itself, sort of ... deja vu ... or what?
Now, I just couldn't help thinkin, perhaps the usurpation of Thor/Tyr by Odin was simply an allegory to the conquest of Galli/Keltoi by Chatti ... ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: Nurica
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 09:32
|
infantile topic with infantile treatment... But it appears a lot of people need this kind of "history" in order to be related or to feel with all other humans a community; though is so simplistic as a method... And it is so easy to feel connected to all other humans by just being alive in the same century, or by understanding the obvious fact we are all member of the same still living species... I have to conclude that wikipedia is the ravaging poison of our time, playing the same function like the ideological marxist or nazi texts of the 19th and 20th c. or the religious texts of past millennia. Wikipedia is the convenient ersatz of all the scientific literature.
|
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:01
|
Odin was a late addition to the German Pantheon--It is thought that he orginated from the Chatti (Hessians) and came from the Celtic God Lugos
What strikes me as funny is the similitaries of celtic and germanic mythology.
Odin of course (wodan in west germanic) stikes a huge similartity to Lugus of the contiental celts. the magic spear, the rainbow, the ravens--Odin had one eye, Lugus closed one eye during combat. I wonder if the Norse and Germanic religions originated from the celtic.
I copied this from an online source
"It is also worth noting that parallels exist between the Irish Lugh, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaulish - Gaulish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus - Lugus , Germanic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wotan - Wotan and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse - Norse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin - Odin . Odin was worshipped by the Norse as a god of war among other things including poetry and the arts. Odin appears to have replaced http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyr - Tyr as god of war among north Germanic peoples. As such, it may be that Lugh was also worshipped as a god of war by the Irish. On that note it is worth noting that the ultimate Irish warrior hero http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cu_Chulainn - Cu Chulainn is cited as the son of Lugh." end quote
As Odin is closely connected with a horse and spear, and transformation/shape shifting into animal shapes, an alternative theory of origin contends that Odin, or at least some of his key characteristics, may have arisen just prior to the sixth century as a nightmarish horse god (Echwaz), later signified by the eight-legged http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleipnir - Sleipnir . Some support for Odin as a latecomer to the Scandinavian Norse pantheon can be found in the Sagas where, for example, at one time he is thrown out of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard - Asgard by the other gods — a seemingly unlikely tale for a well-established "all father." Scholars who have linked Odin with the "Death God" template include http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=E._A._Ebbinghaus&action=edit&redlink=1 - E. A. Ebbinghaus , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_de_Vries_%28linguist%29 - Jan de Vries and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thor_Templin&action=edit&redlink=1 - Thor Templin . The later two also link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki - Loki and Odin as being one-and-the-same until the early Norse Period[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed - citation needed ].
Scandinavian Óðinn emerged from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Norse - Proto-Norse *Wōdin during the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_period - Migration period , artwork of this time (on gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracteate - bracteates ) depicting the earliest scenes that can be aligned with the High Medieval Norse mythological texts. The context of the new elites emerging in this period aligns with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snorri - Snorri 's tale of the indigenous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanir - Vanir who were eventually replaced by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86sir - Æsir , intruders from the Continent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin#cite_note-0 - [1] Parallels between Odin and Celtic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugus - Lugus have often been pointed out: both are intellectual gods, commanding magic and poetry. Both have ravens and a spear as their attributes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar - Julius Caesar (de bello Gallico, 6.17.1) mentions Mercury as the chief god of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_religion - Celtic religion . A likely context of the diffusion of elements of Celtic ritual into Germanic culture is that of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatti - Chatti , who lived at the Celtic-Germanic boundary in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesse - Hesse during the final centuries before the Common Era. (It should be remembered that many Indo-Europeanists hypothesize that Odin in his Proto-Germanic form was not the chief god, but that he only gradually replaced http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BDr - Týr during the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_period - Migration period .) |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:03
You need to research more before entering to this discussion. -------------
|
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:08
Really do you want the site that came from, It is a pretty recognized theory that Odin was a late addition and came from Lugus during the migration period
Didn't we already have this discussion, in a differnt forum
Here are some sites you can look at:
http://www.historicalarts.co.uk/articles/.../the_birth_of_lugh.html - www.historicalarts.co.uk/articles/.../the_birth_of_lugh.html
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Odin - http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Odin
Worship of Odin dates back to early Germanic http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Paganism - paganism . The most compelling evidence of this historical connection is found in the accounts of Tacitus and http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Julius_Caesar - Julius Caesar , who describe the Germanic pagans participating in a cult of http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Mercury_%28mythology%29 - "Mercury" dedicated to a figure matching Odin in both attributes and areas of patronage. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Odin#cite_note-9 - [10] Thus, it is theorized that Scandinavian Óðinn emerged from Proto-Norse *Wōdin during the Migration period (especially 100 B.C.E. - 600 C.E.). The archaeological record bolsters this conjecture, as Vendel artwork (bracteates, image stones) depicts scenes that can be aligned with the High Medieval Norse mythological texts. Further, the context of the new elites emerging in this period aligns with Snorri's (euhemeristic) tale of the indigenous http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Vanir - Vanir who were eventually replaced by the http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Aesir - Aesir , understood as intruders from the continent. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Odin#cite_note-10 - [11] Additionally, parallels between Odin and Celtic Lugus have often been pointed out: both are intellectual gods, commanding magic and poetry. Both have ravens and a spear as their attributes, and both are one-eyed. A likely context of the diffusion of elements of Celtic ritual into Germanic culture is that of the Chatti, who lived at the Celtic-Germanic boundary in Hesse during the final centuries before the Common Era. However, it must be remembered that Odin in his Proto-Germanic form was not the chief god, but that he only gradually replaced http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Tyr - Tyr during the Migration period. also: Helene A. Guerber's 1909 book, "Myths of the Norsemen," and H.R. Ellis Davidson's 1964 book, "Gods and Myths of Northern Europe." |
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:12
The Chatti are Hessians in German Chatti is the Latinized version
|
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:45
This is from Penn state:
OriginsWorship of Odin dates to Proto-Germanic paganism. Parallels between Odin and Celtic Lugus have often been pointed out: both are intellectual gods, commanding magic and poetry. (It must be remembered that Odin in his Proto-Germanic form was not the chief god, but that he only gradually replaced Tyr during the Migration period.) Scandinavian Óðinn emerged from Proto-Norse *Wōdin during the Migration period, Vendel artwork (bracteates, image stones) depicting the earliest scenes that can be aligned with the High Medieval Norse mythological texts. Some scholars have linked Odin with the "Death God" template. A few of them, such as Jan de Vries and Thor Templin, link Loki and Odin as being one-in-the-same until the early Norse Period. BlótIt is attested in primary sources that sacrifices were made to Odin during blóts. As the Swedes had the right not only to elect king but also to depose a king, the sagas relate that both King Domalde and King Olof Trätälja were sacrificed to Odin after years of famine. It has been argued that the killing of a combatant in battle was to give a sacrificial offering to Odin. The fickleness of Odin in battle was well-documented, and in Lokasenna, Loki taunts Odin for his inconsistency. Read more: http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/16246/Odin.html#ixzz0pcmr3m21 - Odin - Characteristics, Origins, Blót, Edda, Odin and Jesus, Persisting beliefs in Odin http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/16246/Odin.html#ixzz0pcmr3m21 - http://encyclopedia.stateuniversity.com/pages/16246/Odin.html#ixzz0pcmr3m21 |
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:52
|
Here is another one for you:
CELTIC RELIGION.
By Professor Anwyl, Professor of Welsh at University College, Aberystwyth. THE MYTHOLOGY OF ANCIENT BRITAIN AND IRELAND. By Charles Squire, Author of The Mythology of the British Who says that celt and teuton myths are intertwined
The Celtic and Scandinavian Religions By J. A. MacCulloch
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin#cite_ref-LINDOW_7-0 - ^ Lindow, John. http://books.google.com/books?id=KlT7tv3eMSwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_navlinks_s#v=onepage&q=&f=false - Norse Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Heroes, Rituals, and Beliefs , pages 280-281. (2001) Oxford: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_University_Press - Oxford University Press . |
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 10:56
I wouldn't consider the sites you used as research sites. They are more alternate history really
|
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 11:58
|
I edited my post, that was in fact a reply to Nurica, not you, as you said we had also discussed about it in another thread, I also believe that there was a strong connection between Celtic and Germanic cultures, you probably know that the Germanic tribe of the Vandals have also been mentioned as Lugus/Lugii in some sources, as you read here: http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Lygians - http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Lygians it is not clear that Lugii were a Celtic or Germanic tribe and it is said that they were a compound tribe. -------------
|
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 13:54
|
MG, I think that Cyrus was chastising Nurica for a somewhat inane post! I don't believe he challegened your sites!
As it is related to alernate history, there can be made an argument that what we call Persia today (Iran) is a creation of the 16th century CE, or earlier! I is alleged that the very use of the word "Franks" or "Frankish" to describe a particular part of our past, could also be confused with "France", and via that direction, confused with "Paris" and "Parisian!", and thus Persia / Persian! Even the use of the city name "Babylon", is up to question! There also existed a Roman city in Egypt, near Heliopolis and Cairo, called Babylon! There even exists a great aqueduct / canal that brought water to the gardens found there! Ring any bells? But, that is for the "alternate" history section,and not here! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 18:40
|
I think Odin-Adon-Adonis, as mentioned by Cyrus, is a valid speculative platform in relation to a broader pan-IE mythological canvas.
I don't know, but I would also speculate, personally, that the Indian Arjun a.k.a. Arjuna, demigod super archer and hero of the semi-mythical Kurukshetra War, the mainstay of the Mahabhrata story told in the Hindu holy scripture Bhagavad Gita (Song of God), is also somehow connected to that in the entire overarching IE mythological spectrum. Arjun, BTW, was one of the 5 princes of King Pandu of the Pandava tribe.
BTW, the legend says a Kambhoja (Himalayan Cymmerian, or maybe Himalayan Scytho-Cymmerian - not the Kambuja of Cambodia) prince-warrior named Sudakh Shina sided with the Kaurava, foe of the Pandava, against the Pandava and their allies.
One version says Sudakh Shina, on the 14th day of the 18-day war, at one time hit Arjun with a blow so powerful that it made Arjun swoon. But Arjun, benefitting from the divine aid of his cousin and brother-in-law Lord Krishna, somehow recovered and eventually slew Sudakh Shina with his divine arrow. Not such a valiant act, to me, but then there ya go.
The loss of Sudakh Shina, a leading general on the Kaurava side, eventually led to their defeat by the Pandava.
 That Sudakh Shina, BTW, was a descendant of king-warrior Kambujiya, who the Kambhoja people believe that Khouroush-e-Bozorg (Cyrus the Great), founder of the Persian Hakhamanesh (Achaemenes) dynasty, ultimately descended from.
This Kurukshetra War, BTW, is postulated by many Indian scholars to have occurred in the time frame of 1,400 BC, at least. The name Kambujiya (Greek: Cambyses, sometimes also Cophen) later became a favourite among the Persian Hakhamanesh kings, post Khouroush.
As for Celtic, Teutonic and Gothic, why not? They all descended from Scytho-Cymmerio-Sarmatian, and before that Thracian, so some degree of ancient cultural interconnection would only have been a natural development.  ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 21:11
|
The Cimbri were thought to be celts -surrounded in a sea of Germanic people (they were on the Jutland) it is also possible that Lugus came from Odin and not vica versa- Maybe they picked up the legends from thier neighbors--
This guy has a well cited paper-- I don't think it disproves the Chatti theory, but it raises some doubt in my mind
http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf - http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf
I am getting more and more convinced that Germanic was more of a place name, not a tribal identity some tribes that were thought to be celts were germans some celts german-- I am begining to wonder how different they really were -- if at all.
I suppose when we base most of our history of the era on Tactius and other Roman accounts we have an imperfect picture of the era. Unfortunatley most of my college study of the era cam from Roman accounts-I beleive the era need to be rethought.
|
Posted By: Maximus Germanicus
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 21:12
|
Sorry Cyrus--the SoD has my a bit mailto:p@**% - p@**% , I will be more professional.
|
Posted By: Nurica
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 23:57
|
<<You need to research more before entering to this discussion.>> i really am not so sure that i want to enter such a discussion having a sooo foul start: your sources are ALL simply bullshit: - A blog: http://xenohistorian.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/the-babylonian-connection-redone/ - http://xenohistorian.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/the-babylonian-connection-redone/ - Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullr - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullr - a pious site: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab048.htm - http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/2bab048.htm Sad, very sad if this bullshit is the starting base of something you call "research"... Someone here suggested to transfer it to "alternate history" (in my view another name for bullshit). But of course, you can continue to do "research" and "history" by playing with word similarities, the very way shakespeare derided in cymbeline when said thast mulier is … mollis_aer; or the way Joseph de Maistre agreed with the ancients that the etymology of cadaver is caro data vermibus…
|
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 04:59
|
Nurica, you either know something and want to contribute to this discussion or know nothing on this subject and just want to disturb this thread, if you want to do the second one, plese don't reply to my post. But if you really want to discuss then I can explain the topic more for you, of course it is better that you read some other related thread, like this one: http://www.allempires.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27064 - Gotvandi (Dezfuli), Guti and Gothic and this one: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26972 - Tyr,Tiregan,Tirigan,Tervingi,Tyragetae,Targitaus -------------
|
Posted By: Kanas_Krumesis
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 14:10
| The ultimate proto-IE deity is male and holder of the lightning. For Greeks it was Zeus, for Slavs it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perun - Perun , for Balts it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perk%C5%ABnas - Perkūnas . There is interesting theory about primacy of Thor in Germanic pantheon in more ancient times. Then became Odin. He was the God of aristochracy, while Thor remain beloved to ordinary people with his rough strength and power. It is seen in Icelandic saga http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A1rbar%C3%B0slj%C3%B3%C3%B0 - Hárbarðsljóð where Thor was pesent as less considerable deity as Odin (in the role of ferryman Harbard-one of the Odin`s pseudonim) |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 14:27
|
Just as important as lightning was, I would suggest the word "hammer" or specifically "the hammer" or "hammerer?", is more suggestive?
Whilst the hammer, is considered as a war weapon, in its numerous example, such as the "awl", or maybe better and more well know version "Mace!", but the hammer was also a part of a builders tool kit, whether it was used to shape wood, or stone! And, as we know, in many constructions, first a frame, had to be errected by woodcutters, or "carpenters?", before the "stonecutters" or Stone Masons", had thier way with the construction! In essence they were all "Masons!" And, as a builder, they were almost like Gods? God shaped man from clay, (soft stone), cut rules into stone (with his finger), and man, who was a masos did also! This certainly places these so called "pagans" into a more favorable situation when it comes to the Christian God, and his son? Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 18:06
|
Odin, Adon, Arjun. There's a connection there, I'm sure.
Arjun's arrow became Odin's lightning bolt? Perhaps. Why not? ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 20:21
|
And the lightning bolt became the cannon? Fire death from the sky! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: nita
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2010 at 03:34
|
I'm doing a research for school on the characteristics between the Greek and The east civilizations! Can some one give me some advice?
xoxo
|
Posted By: Berserkr
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2010 at 05:01
|
You cannot really take Heyerdahl as a serious historian. He had some wild theories. Just because some names are similar does not make everything he says true. He is not the first person to similarity in words or imagery to make up facts and rewrite history. By the way, did you guys know that aliens visited the Ancient world? This is their spaceships and a helicopter. The helicopter is Atlantian defense trying to fend off the Annunaki.  This is how they looked - the Annunaki. They invaded earth which was controlled by the Atlantians and the Lemurians. They very quickly crushed the Lemurians who fled into unknown space. The Atlantians was destroyed and sunk. The Annunaki liked Atlantian DNA for potential slaves, they were too smart however so they decided to mix it with ape DNA, result - humans. Eventually they got bored of this worthless planet and left.  Unfortunately I could not post another image, but here is the Lemurians. http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#imgcode - http://aboutfacts.net/ufo/UFO144/PD/JomonStatue.jpg And I almost forgot, here is Atlantis in Bermuda! (which good old Heyerdahl also spoke of) http://www.nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/atlantis_530.jpg - http://www.nextnature.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/atlantis_530.jpg Oh, and they are all coming to destroy us in 2012 just for the fun. You thought I was crazy right? Well I might be, but do you really think I believe a single word of what I just wrote? I was just trying to demonstrate how easily one can get "evidence" for historical "facts" ;) http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#imgcode - |
Posted By: DreamWeaver
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2010 at 05:08
|
So these are the serpent men of the Second Kingdom, 25000 years ago right, worshipping Yig, their civilisation rose from the ashes of Lemuria in the Atlantic Ocean? or is it a different one?
------------- |
Posted By: Berserkr
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2010 at 05:26
|
I was trying to add some more images with and extra post but it did not work so I just edited my post instead... I really just took it from conspiracy theory I read on the internet. It's can be fun to read. |
Posted By: DreamWeaver
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2010 at 05:31
|
Like HP Lovecraft
------------- |