TURANIANS
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Archaeology & Anthropology
Forum Discription: Topics on archaeology and anthropology
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2555
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 19:28
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Topic: TURANIANS
Posted By: köroglu
Subject: TURANIANS
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 00:11
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How to discern Turanian people: Die türkischen Steppenvölker Zentralasiens lebten mit Mongolen und Skhyten von der außenwelt abgeschottet jahrhundertelang als Nomaden zusammen. Für die Europäer waren die Hunnen nicht europäisch, für die Chinesen waren sie fremdartige Menschen mit stärkerem Bartwuchs, größerer Erscheinung und hatten längere Nasen. Wie sahen sie eigentlich aus?? In der Fachsprache heißt es Turanid.... Hervorstechende Wangenknochen, mandelförmig geschlitzte (Katzen)augen usw..
Turanian race includes races who lived in central asia.
But Turanoid is not a "new race". Even the huns were Turanoids. The chineese said they had strong growth of beard. This sounds not mongoloid! They were some blond huns. This sounds not mongoloid, too..
As you can see Turanoid is something like the step between Caucasoid and Mongoloid....
Mongoloid and Turanoid is not the same. Turanoid has caucasoid essencence. Mongoloid: First picture is an Iranian-Prototype; Second is one of a Turkic-Prototype(Dinarid-Turanid): Other Turkish profiles from Central-Asia:
KÜL TEGIN___(Kül (Köl, Gül, Göl) Tigin Khan Bengü Ýnançu Apa Tarkan Taþý) (685 - 731 or 732 AD) was a Turkic leader. He was the son of Ilteris Sad and brother of Bilge Khan and co-ruler of the Gokturk Empire from 716.
Turkic/Turanian prototype skull
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Replies:
Posted By: Rava
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 03:38
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Turan and Turanians (in the contemporary sense) are two different names. What you diplayed is a peoples mixture that happened after c.a. 550 when Turks conquered Central Asia. Original Turan belonged to H'yaona also known as Chionites an Indo-European tribe which moved West along with the Abars and were known as Avars in Europe. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2005 at 14:21
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Posts: 32 Posted: Today at 12:11am | IP Logged Report Post Quote köroglu How to discern Turanian people: Die türkischen Steppenvölker Zentralasiens lebten mit Mongolen und Skhyten von der außenwelt abgeschottet jahrhundertelang als Nomaden zusammen. Für die Europäer waren die Hunnen nicht europäisch, für die Chinesen waren sie fremdartige Menschen mit stärkerem Bartwuchs, größerer Erscheinung und hatten längere Nasen. Wie sahen sie eigentlich aus?? In der Fachsprache heißt es Turanid.... Hervorstechende Wangenknochen, mandelförmig geschlitzte (Katzen)augen usw.. I wish I could speak German my ancestral language!!! Turanian race includes races who lived in central asia. Most Caucasian+Iranoid+Mongoloid (or Indianid). I enjoyed this post and I can see the Caucasiod and Mongoloid features in some of the people pictured here. I have never heard of Iranoid. They had a really neat exhibit at the local museum in Spokane about modern art from the Turkic regions, former Soviet Union. We do have art and culture even in backwards Spokane- 
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Posted By: Dari
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 00:08
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A Tajiki is not a Turanian, maybe a minority of them, but not the majority. Thought I should point that out. ------------- 
Dari is a pimp master |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 00:35
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I need to get myself a Turanian girl.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 04:32
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A typical Turkmen family from central asia...
A Turkmen horseman...
Warior Turkish women from Altay, the homeland of Göktürks...
Some Turkish villagers left in Macedonia from Ottoman time, a Yörük village...
Saha (Yakut) Turks from Eastern Russia... Turks are everywhere, from USA to Algeria, From Germany to Eastern Russia, from Mongolia to Iraq... All these people are examples of Turanians... ------------- |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2005 at 10:43
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I know... this girl belongs to the minority! ------------- |
Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 03:21
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Oguzoglu, how come Yakuts are Turks? They
Tungusic people, and have never been under Turkic control. The common
thing between them is, that they have been classified under the Altaic
family, which isn't now thought to be quite accurate or even real. BTW, now that we are talking about central Asian people, do you know any sites on their languages? Thank you and goodbye. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 14:01
Nice family! They look like people I can have great resepct for. I thought in the last image the girl almost looks Aztec. 
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Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2005 at 16:33
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Turanoid is not a race, it's a sub-race.
Köl Tigin was the brother of Bilge Qaghan (not Khan) and he didn't have "Khan" in his title. Neither was he the co-ruler of the Eastern Gök Türk Qaghanate, his brother Mojilian was the sole ruler with the title Bilge Qaghan. Besides, Köl Tigin wasn't killed by the Toquz Oghuz in 731 because the Oghuz Rebellion was over by 716.
Well in this case they're Warrior Turkic Women because today, the term Turkish is used only for the citizens of the Republic of Turkey.
Yaquts are a Turkic people (more correctly, geneticially mixed between Turkic and Tungusic but they're culturally Turkic) and they speak a language/dialect which is cathegorised inside the Siberian group of Turkic language groups. ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 21-Mar-2005 at 20:12
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And which race do you classify them? 70% Caucasoid 30% Mongoloid ?????????? (Don't post with large font -II) ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2005 at 11:54
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Can everyone see all of the photos that I posted? ------------- |
Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2005 at 17:46
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köroglu, posting with large letters is not allowed in this forum. Turanoid is a sub-race of the Caucasoid race, taht's all I know. ------------- [IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg"> Qaghan of the Vast Steppes http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum |
Posted By: Behrouz
Date Posted: 10-Apr-2005 at 19:38
| I'm a bit confused now, isn't Turan located in the east of Iran? Something like Turks of centeral asia? so how's that connected to turks of turkey? |
Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:40
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It is very simple. Turkey's Turks has migrated from those lands to Anatolia and during time they have mixed with locals. The root of the word TURAN which is TUR and the root of the world TURK or TURUK is the same. Both are TUR-. More examples of Anatolian Turks.
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Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 01:45
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It is very simple. Turkey's Turks have migrated from those lands to Anatolia and during time they have mixed with locals. The root of the word TURAN which is TUR and the root of the world TURK or TURUK is the same. Both are TUR-. More examples of Anatolian Turks.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 03:04
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Turan isnt Eastern Iran. It is the common name of all the lands from Turkmenistan to Eastern Turkestan in China. It is an Iranic name, but "Tur" belief is the root of both the names "Turk" and "Turan". Turks immigrated those lands since ancient times and most of todays Turks are Turanoid originated, including Uighur Turks.
Uighur kids from China
Uighur man playing a traditional Turkish insturment, Kopuz.  Uighur girl from China
 Uighur man from eastern Kashgar
 An old Uighur man
 Uygur Flag (Xinjiang-Eastern Turkestan flag) ------------- |
Posted By: Behrouz
Date Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 11:42
| Thanks. I was wondering aobut it since in Shahnameh (the book of kings) as I remember Turan was located in the east of Iran which of course makes sense given the stories are from ancient times. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Apr-2005 at 10:17
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Alparslan Turk ler Anadolu'da diger milletler ile karismamisdir. bunu da nereden cikardin ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 25-Apr-2005 at 11:26
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He didnt say that. He said Turks have mixed with the locals of Turan, the ancient region which occupied todaysTajikistan, Kyrgizistan, Uzbekistan etc. And if you are an Anatolian Turk, go and visit Turkestan countries, and then look at the mirror. You will understand what I mean. Also, as I read from your signiture, you wrote "Atilla the Hun". But his real name is "Attila the Hun". ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 18:38
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This is how I have always invisiged Attila to have looked (maybe slightly wider cheekbones: http://www.allsportnews.net/images/942.jpg - http://www.allsportnews.net/images/942.jpg The "Iranoids" displayed may have had some Turanoid influence down the generations as many Iranics have. Mehdi Mahdevikia is a good example of Iranid. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 10:59
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Yeah, I have heard Mehdi Mahdavikia, his was a right winger AM in a German Bundesliga team. I also know Ale Daei who once played in Hertha Berlin against Galatasaray. These are the only Iranian players I know. And the football player who has a photo in your link is Alpay Özalan, a famous Turkish defender in the national team. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 15:00
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There is also Ali Karimi, he plays for a UAE team Al Ahli but there has been interest from German league for a while (he is by far the best iranian player in my opinion). Fereydoon Zandi - Kasierslautern, Vahid Hashemian - Bayern. You can see which teams the players play for here: http://www.parstimes.com/soccer/legionnaires.html - http://www.parstimes.com/soccer/legionnaires.html Here you can see Karimi and other in action:
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Apr-2005 at 10:16
Thank you for the useful links ------------- |
Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 02-May-2005 at 13:55
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Why you people dont say anything about Hungarian people? Dunno but, they use mostly the name Turan in their daily live or even in theire names. I mean with "using the name Turan in their daily live" they giving the name on some war-tanks etc. |
Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 02-May-2005 at 15:35
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Ok: The Hungarian language is the largest Uralic language (15,000,000 speakers) spoken in Hungary and neighbouring states. It belongs to the Ugric branch, and its closest language relatives are Khanty and Mansi, spoken in Siberia along the river Ob. The Hungarians were a hunter-gatherer tribe from ancient times to the 1st millenium BC. Shortly after they were introduced with animal husbandry. Circa 450 they emigrated from the Ural mountains to the northern Caucasus region. There they remained for about 400 years. They were allied for a while with the Khazars. They had intensive contact with Turkic tribes, since Magyar words relating to husbandry, political - and military organization are found to have been borrowed from Turkic languages before the 9th century. Late the same century the advance of the Pechenegs forced them to move into modern Romania, under their leader Arpad. They were defeated by the Bulgarian czar Simeon I, forcing them again to move, this time to modern Hungary. This is as much as I know, I'm not that keen on written history |
. A short source for those who would like to see it: http://www.answers.com/topic/magyars - http://www.answers.com/topic/magyars Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 04-May-2005 at 13:26
| I know we are (Turkish peepz) the only people that calls Hungarian people "Macar" or "Magyar" but all others call them Huns or Hungarian or something relative to that. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-May-2005 at 14:42
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The word "Hungar" comes from the word Ongar, and it comes from the word "Onogur". ------------- |
Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2005 at 05:18
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heres an interesting (very detailed) page about Magyars, Huns, etc.. http://www.imninalu.net/Huns.htm - http://www.imninalu.net/Huns.htm |
Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2005 at 22:56
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[Categories: Turkic peoples]
Turanism, or Pan-Turanism, is a political movement for the union of all Turkic peoples, and as such is equivalent to (Click link for more info and facts about Pan-Turkism) Pan-Turkism. Georgeon and Landau extended Pan-Turanism, however, to be not only unity of all Turks, but also unity of Turks with Hungarians, Mongolians and Finns. The name is derived from Turan an ancient Persian name for Turkestan (A historical region of central Asia that was a center for trade between the East and the West), the Turkic languages areas of (Click link for more info and facts about Central Asia) Central Asia. The organisation is one of the earliest fore-runners for modern Pan-Turkism and Turanism During the latter part of the 19th century and the early 20th century similar societies were founded in many other countries with perceived Turanian roots. Hungarian Turanian Society, Hungary, founded 1910, Turanian Alliance of Hungary founded 1920 Turanian National Alliance, Japan 1921 Japanese Turanian Society early 1930s |
Posted By: kermit_criminal
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 01:54
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Are kyrgyz turnanians? is this man who is kyrgyz a turanian? http://freenet.bishkek.su/kyrgyzstan/pict/akaev1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Jagatai Khan
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 03:29
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Yes.They are partly Turkic. The establish the union of the Turanian people is also named as "Red Apple Idea"
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Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 11:56
Didnt know that Japan also has Turan dream, hmmm interesting. But i know also that Ataturk sayed once to a Japanese "one day we will meet eachothers in China" ------------- OUT OF LIMIT |
Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 05:12
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Turkmen and Hungarians: the Past and the Present /09.06.2005/ Some time ago, Hungarian Orientalist and explorer Armin Vamberi who visited Turkmenistan in the 19th century and collected many valuable materials about our country made a conclusion that “…The Turkomans (in the mediaeval times the Hungarians were referred to as Turkomans, O.G.) living from here to the Adriatic Sea, or living on the banks of the Danube River, Western Turks in that point can be related to one family with the Central Asiatics not relying on the physiognomic features but the similarity between their language, character and customs.” This fact is supported in the work “On the Relations of Turkmen and Old Turkic languages with the Magyar language” (Ashgabat, 1985) by a Turkmen philologist Ya. Chungaev. While comparing the Hungarian words with the Turkmen ones the identity of some of them is obvious, for example, Hung. agg (‘aged’) – Turk. aga (‘oldest’), Hung. alma (‘an apple’) – Turk. alma (‘an apple’), Hung. ata (‘father’) – Turk. ata (‘father’, ‘grandfather’), Hung. arpa (‘barley’) – Turk. agra (‘barley’), Hung. balta (‘an axe’) – Turk. palta (‘an axe’), Hung. kes (‘a knife’) – Turk. kesmek (‘to cut’), Hung. kazan (‘a big pot’) – Turk. gazan (‘a pot’), Hung. ki (‘who’) – Turk. kim (‘who’), Hung. pamut (‘cotton’) – Turk. pamyk (‘cotton’), Hung. ter (‘arena’) – Turk. tor (‘an honorary place’), Hung. taray (‘a comb’) – Turk. darak (‘a comb’), Hung. derek (‘a tree trunk’) – Turk. derek (‘a poplar’), Hung. tary (‘millet’) – Turk. dary (‘millet’), Hung. teve (‘a camel’) – Turk. duye (‘a camel’)- Hung. sarga ('yellow').... and others. So, where does this cognation originated from? The latest linguistic research convinces that the place of origin of the Altaian (Turkic and Mongol languages) and the Ural (including the Finno-Ugric languages) language families is Central Asia and the adjoining northern regions of Iran. Belonging to the Europeoid race by their anthropological type ‘the Altaians’ and ‘the Uralians’ spread far off to the east and north and absorbed the Mongoloid elements. At the beginning of the 20th century an Americanist P. Rive wrote that the region to the east of the Caspian Sea was the centre of settling of the Uralian-Altaian tribes who spread all over Central Asia later. Predicating upon the results of analysis of the archaeological cultures the famous scientist S. P. Tolstov made a conclusion that ‘the Uralians’ had lived in Central Asia and he associated them with the Keltiminar culture of Northern Turkmenistan. The Hungarians’ ancestors mainly moved away to the Volga and the Ural steppes and forests, where they met with Huns, the Turkmen people’s ancestors. The Ugrians (Hungarians) formed a part of the new Hunnic union of tribes. Very likely, from that moment they started to call themselves Hungars (that is, Hunnic people) or Ogrians (Ugrians), the western historians regarded them as Turks. N. A. Baskakov wrote that the names ‘Ogur’ and ‘Oghuz’ “present two variants of one and the same word differing in the phonetic conformity of the sounds r-z typical for some Turkic languages.” According to him, on-Ogur corresponds to on-oguz (‘ten Oghuzes’, that is ‘the Oghuz tribes’), kutrigur – ‘otuz oguz’ (‘thrity Oghuzes’) and saraguz – ‘sary oguz’ (‘yellow Oghuzes’). It is remarkable that the Turkmen have preserved the dialect differences in the ethnic groups. For example, Ogur can be compared to Uger (Uker), an Oghuz tribe, and to Ogurjali, a subsequent Turkmen tribe, and a clan of Turkmen-Nohurli – Ogry. The medieval Turkic-Bulgarian tribes living in the Aral-Caspian region are also related to Ugrians – Ogorians. Moving together with the Huns to Central Europe the Hungarians established a small state in Pannonia. The other part of the Hungarians called Magyars wandered to the regions between the Dniestr River and the Dnieper River. When in 898 the Oghuz-Pecheneg tribes were forced out by their congeners from the Volga steppes to the west Magyars were the first to be struck. A Byzantine author Constantine the Scarlet-Born wrote in the 10th century that Turks (i.e. Hungarians) lived near the Khazar Sea, then a part of them moved to Persia and the other part advanced to Central Europe. Hungrains advanced to the Danube Valley where they defeated their congeners (the remnants of the Ugrians, the Huns and the Avars) settled in Pannonia. Shortly after they allied with the Kavar tribes. This fact is of great interest for us, as S. P. Tolstov associated Kavars with Khwarezmians, i.e. the inhabitants of Northern Turkmenistan. On coming to the throne after the death of king Istvan (St Stephen), King Peter deluged Hungary with Germans and Italians and forced out the Magyar aristocracy. The people of Hungary rebelled and brought Samuil Abu (1041-1044), a descendant of the rulers of Khwarezm Eda and Edumer, the husband of King Stephen’s sister, to power. His love to the people and tolerance was mentioned in all the Hungarian chronicles. The fact that 16 letters of the mediaeval Hungarian script were similar to some letters of the Gyok-Turkmen alphabet can attest to the Turkmen-Hungarian ties. In 1114, a new surge of the Turkic tribes came to Central Europe. They were the Oghuz horsemen who had suffered a defeat in the battles with the Kipchak tribes near the Don. Crossing the Carpathian Mountains they came to the lands of Czechia, Slovakia and Hungary. The role they played in the political life of those states is enormous. King Tokson designated two Pecheneg khans as the rulers of the town of Pest, (the future capital of Hungary). An Oghuz soldier, Bayandyr (Berend) who saved King Charles I in 1330 is also mentioned in the Hungarian chronicles. The Oghuzes in large quantity living in Ugria (Hungary) preserved their independence till the 14th century. In the course of consolidation of the Ugorian state the Oghuz khans were replaced with the king’s representatives. However, for a long time the European Oghuzes preserved their military strength, and the young Oghuzes replenished the king’s army. At the end of the 15th century, a Hungarian historian described them as “using spears, growing long beard and moustaches and wearing hats and dress fly-away silk clothes like Persians.” In 1228, the Kipchak tribes defeated by the Mongolian hordes came to Hungary. King Bela let the detachment of 40 thousand Kipchak warriors headed by Khan Khotan settle between the Danube River and the Tisa River and in the eastern part of the country. Having known about it Batu Khan wrote King Bela a letter in which he threatened to devastate his lands if he continued protecting the Kipchak tribes (the Cumans) and let them live in his country. But the Hungarians were not frightened. King Bela’s son married Khan Khotan’s daughter thereby strengthen the Hungarian-Kipchak ties. During the reign of King Ladislav (Laszlo), whose mother was a Polovtsian, the royal court consisted of the noble Kipchaks. The Kipchak customs and clothes were adopted by the Hungarians. An ethnic group of the Kipchak-Palozzi resides in Hungary till present times. The Hungarian scientist L. Kunkovich wrote: “The Polovtsian tribes spoke their Kipchak-Turkic dialect until the 16th century, their governed independently of the Hungarian system up to 1876. Now they consider themselves the pure Hungarians, but are very proud of their Asian origin. Their names were taken to name two lowlands, Malaya and Bolshay Cumania (Kiskunsag and Nagykunsag).” In the Late Middle Ages the ties between Central Asia and Europe broke off. But the Hungarians still remembered that Central Asia was their ancestral land. In the 19th century Hungarian Orientalist and explorer A. Vamberi started a long journey to study the ancestral land of the Hungarians and then he published his recollections from his travels in Travels in Central Asia introducing the Europeans with the amazing world of the Turkmen. Ovez GUNDOGDIEV, Head of Department of Archaeology and Ethnology of the State Institute of Cultural Heritage of the Peoples of Turkmenistan, Central Asia and the Orient under the President of Turkmenistan ------------- 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 06:04
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I think his real name is Oguz Gundogdi, it is the ex Soviet spelling. ------------- |
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 09:13
Good article,  .
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Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 12:27
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I find all this thing on the "Turanian race" (I thought the term race
had been dropped in anthropology and also in biology, being only used
in cattle and pet selecting activities) quite wishful-thinking. Looking at all those (pretty different) "Turanian" types, some remind me to Roma (Gypsies), others to East Asian types, many are typical Mediterranean and the Turk selection of blonde girls could be perfectly from anywhere in Europe. Most show obvious mixture of traits, what is the most common thing wherever you go and, as someone pointed out some look even simmilar to Native Americans (what is not surprising, considered that these originated most probably in Central Asia or Siberia). I also find astonishing some suggestions that Turkish migrations could have changed significatively the "racial" (genetical, I assume) shape of Anatolia or other regions. This was probably more likely in the less densely populated steppes but not in the agricultural strongholds of SW Asia, where invaders could never ammount but to a tiny minority in an ocean of native farmers, that were assimilated in tongue and culture but never genetically. As "Caucasians", "Mongoloid" aren't homogeneous either and in fact NE Asians ("true Mongoloids") and SE Asians have pretty much different genetic pools and are considered, from a genetic perspective as two totally different branches. A very interesting link is: http://racialreality.shorturl.com/ - http://racialreality.shorturl.com/ . |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 13:48
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Ataturk and a Native American: ------------- |
Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 14:07
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I dont see any resemblance. American indians have been isolated amoungst themselves for a few thousand years. Besides one characteristic of american indians that most people dont know about is that they have a curvature of the upper set of teeth,. i havent looked for a picture (i dont know if i would find it anyway) but here in new jersey i know a few American indians NOT related to each other and they too have this trait. I saw the same thing out west too! Its interesting. They also are prone to very bad skin for some reason with age. They ALSO cannot handle alcolhol and i believe Attaturk had no preoblem drinking! -------------
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 17:02
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AtaTurk: He was half Jewish I believe. ------------- |
Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 17:07
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I really dont believe that! -------------
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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 17:23
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don't forget Eric Cartman.he's jewish too
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:01
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I am not joking... Here is what I read, it's moot as far as I am concerned.
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Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:02
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Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:05
now you believe in jewish newspapers zagros purya?  interesting
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:16
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I said the subject is moot. What is wrong with Jewish newspapers, anyways? Besides, the second source is not Jewish.
I think I like these: ------------- |
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:31
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nothing wrong with jewish newspapers.unless they publish about iranians, arabs, or greeks right? gotcha |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2005 at 18:39
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you certainly did.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Jul-2005 at 04:13
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It doesnt matter if someone is from ethnical Turkish/Iranian/Greek/Albanian stock. It is about identity and how you define yourself. Whatever his origins were, Ataturk was a Turk, a Muslim and he prefered to kick all supporters of such organizations from Turkey. ------------- |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 23:09
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Atatürk? Jewish?? You are clowns.. muuaaaahaha A Turk seem to me more like a Native American than an Oriental... I see the Wolf in his eyes... ------------- |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 23:14
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A TYPICAL LOOK OF THE FIRST TURKS IN ANATOLIA:
Everyone who travel to Turkey will see today this type of Turkic/Turanid subrace... More than you would like to imagine.. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 10:42
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We all know that Ataturk wasnt a Native American... So please, dont become funny. It doesnt matter if Ataturk had a Jewish origin or not, he was a Turk. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 11:30
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Oguz is right, but I find it laughable how unopen to discussion of the topic most of you are. ------------- |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 15:11
Heee?????????? I never say that ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 15:17
I hope I wont see this type of Turk more. Unlucy helens did meet with this guy. I think I have some sypmaty for helens. |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 15:42
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A HUNISH WARRIOR
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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 15:58
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are you trying to scare Zagros Purya? |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 20:38
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aww that is soooooo cuute like a lil kitty. ------------- |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 21:30
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Who is that? ------------- |
Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 22-Jul-2005 at 22:13
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And a Turk without Turanid influence:
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Posted By: minchickie
Date Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 02:12
 HELLOOOOO!!!-------------
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Posted By: Ironheart
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 17:34
------------- Pax Ottomanica |
Posted By: Seljuk
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2005 at 18:36
isnt he Volkan the reserve goalkeeper of Fenerbahçe? ------------- 
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Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 03-Aug-2005 at 08:15
Do not insult our nation and its leader. If you that will not be the same as calling Azeri Turks in Iran Torke Hari, The donkey Turk |
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 03-Aug-2005 at 14:22
| he didn't insult Ataturk.it is ok not to know about him well, if you're Not-Turkish |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Aug-2005 at 18:14
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Reading all you brother's posts makes me proud of my Turanian/Turkish heritage. Thank you.
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Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 20:41
Senin gibiler sagola gardash! ------------- |
Posted By: The Guardian
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2005 at 20:43
It is not an insult to call someone jewish ------------- It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. &nb |
Posted By: Tangriberdi
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 10:34
What's wrong with being a Jew/Jewish ? Of cpourse nothing ! But insult here is that speaking something incorrect for someone. He is no way a Jew, He is a Turk. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 11:34
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Being Jew doesnt mean he wasnt a Turk. "Jew" refers to a religion, not specific ethnicity, even if it originally does. From his father's side, he had Jewish origins. So what? Gagavuz Turks are still Christian, also some Kazakhs. Karaim Turks are also Jewish. Dont you remember the Khazar Turks? Your religion doesnt identify your ethnicity. But to enlighten the uninformed minds: Ataturk wasnt a Jew, his family was totally Muslims. And Ataturk wasnt a religious person. His origins may possibly have Jewish influence, but I dont think religion matters at all. We arent mullahs to jýdge people according to their religious pasts. I prefer a smart, wise Jew to rule me rather than a fanatic Shia mullah. ------------- |
Posted By: The Guardian
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2005 at 12:00
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I say you are 6 feet tall.Is that an insult? ------------- It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. &nb |
Posted By: niceone928
Date Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 07:40
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As far as I know Ata Turk was half a jew. Another thing, there is something wrong with Jewish newspapers, that's all I ever get in the USA. ------------- |
Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 10:01
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Ataturk having Jewish heretiage. Yes i have heard this as well, although do not know why this is said. Some even say that he was working on behalf ofthe Jews to break the TUrks Islam. NOT MY WORDS, i read it once in a book. It did not have enough evidence to back there thoughts. Who was ment to have Jewish blood his mum or dad? -------------  
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Posted By: köroglu
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2005 at 11:10
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Here is a picture of Ataturks father Ali Riza...
As you can see he looks pretty much like a Turanian, so stop this sh*t ------------- |
Posted By: Hak-Khan
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 00:54
  mirkelam(singer) ------------- |
Posted By: Hak-Khan
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 01:02
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fenerbahce and volkan=reserv taem's reserv player  ------------- |
Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 13:31
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People who want to relate Ataturk with Jews ancestors are the ones who oppose his religious reforms and laik Turkey. They want to show Ataturk as a Jews puppet who has been used to break down Islam in Turkey. These claims are not true. Ataturk was a Turk and Muslim. He was a Bektashi - Alevi. But after seeing Arabs sided with British against Ottomans and Caliphe became a puppet of allied forces he decided to establish a modern state without a religious influence. But one sign has left. We have Bektashi - Turkish symbole on Turkish passeports.
This picture has been taken from an Hungarian web. Look at the Bekhtasi dervishe's symbol that he carries. And look at the second page of your Turkish passeports if you have one and see the symbol under the moon and croissant. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 17:31
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Wow, I didnt know he was an Alevi like me. I thought his father, Ali Riza Efendi was a Turk of Thesellanoiki, altough his origins were Turkish, he had Jewish influence. But he was a Muslim. Ataturk was a Muslim, but he wasnt a religious person at all. So I guess he may be an Alevi... Anyway, I wouldnt care if he was a Jew or even a Buddhist. We have suffered the "loyal" actions of lots of fellow Sunnite Muslims in history, so maybe him not being a Sunnite was better. ------------- |
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 18:14
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didn't know about the symbol on Turkish Passport.I know 12 pointed star symbolize the 12 imams.
------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?" |
Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 19:13
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Some sources that support his Jewish ancestry. Ataturk, The Rebirth of a Nation, Lord Kinross, 1965, p. 437 For Kemal, Islam and civilization were a contradiction in terms. "If only," he once said of the Turks, with a flash of cynical insight, "we could make them Christians!" His was not to be the reformed Islamic state for which the Faithful were waiting: it was to be a strictly lay state, with a centralized Government as strong as the Sultan's, backed by the army and run by his own intellectual bureaucracy. ----------------------------- Turkey, Emil Lengyel, 1941, pp. 140-141
During the early days of Kemal's career, many of his followers
were under the impression that he was a champion of Islam and that
they were fighting the Christians. "Ghazi, Destroyer of Christians"
was the name they gave him. Had they been aware of his real intentions,
they would have called him "Ghazi, Destroyer of Islam." Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal, An Intimate Study of a Dictator,
H.C. Armstrong, 1934 p. 241:
p. 243 Further, it was public knowledge that he was irreligious, broke all the rules of decency, and scoffed at sacred things. He had chased the Sheik-ul-Islam, the High Priest of Islam, out of his office and thrown the Koran after him. He had forced the women in Angora to unveil. He had encouraged them to dance body close to body with accursed foreign men and Christians. ------------------------ Turkey, Emil Lengyel, 1941, p. 134 Kemal cared nothing about Allah; he was interested in himself and in Turkey. He hated Allah and made him responsible for Turkey's misfortune. It was Allah's tyrannical rule that paralyzed the hands of the Turk. But he knew that Allah was real to the Turkish peasant, while nationalism meant nothing to him. He decided, therefore, to draft Allah into his service as the publicity director of his national cause. Through Allah's aid his people must cease to be Mohammedans and become Turks. Then, after Allah had served Kemal's purpose, he could discard him. ------------------------- Ataturk, The Rebirth of a Nation, Lord Kinross, 1965, p. 437 For Kemal, Islam and civilization were a contradiction in terms. "If only," he once said of the Turks, with a flash of cynical insight, "we could make them Christians!" His was not to be the reformed Islamic state for which the Faithful were waiting: it was to be a strictly lay state, with a centralized Government as strong as the Sultan's, backed by the army and run by his own intellectual bureaucracy. --------------------- Oguz, Well your comment about his being from Thessaloniki actually supports the connection. If you ever look up the area his house was, you'll find that it was right in the center of the Jewish community of Thessaloniki. ------------- To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent. |
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 22:43
too many inaccurate infos in your posts.first of all Gazi doesn't mean "Destroyer of Christians". Gazi is a title of a soldier who has been wounded in a war like my father he has the same title because he got wounded in 74 in Cyprus. Ataturk believed in god no doubt but he wasn't a religous person, period. I would like to point you out in two different views.First Arabs, they didn't like him because he ended the Caliphate, change the alphabet etc.now, the website you copy/paste those quotes strongly supports these ideas. http://www.ummah.org.uk/sultan/donmeh.html Second the jews, they were and still in search of famous, accomplished people to see any jewish connection throughout their history.once they found a tiny little connection they will use it until someone claims the otherwise.that's why claiming Ataturk a jew isn't popular, even in jewish community.I don't know about the Thessaloniki and neighborhood where the house but living in a jewish community isn't something strange if you are a bussinesman at that times.even today it is common.I don't know who Emil Lengyel is, he sounds like a Hungarian jew so it doesn't surprise me if he claims Ataturk hated arabs and islam and the website supports his ideas because it's an islamic website. ------------- "When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?" |
Posted By: Arpad
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 04:07
| I am new here, i am azeri turk, I live in iran, and get alot of racism towards me and my friends from iranians. I think it is time for all iranians and the iranian country to realize that it is also part of the great turan spaning from eastern europe going through asia because 1/3 of its population is turkish and most iranians have turk blood in them. Just like anatolian turks who have a lot of iranic blood in them. Up till now when i see iranians they look turkish to me most of them, And i find it hard to distinguish between turks from turkiye (i have been to istanbol, ankara) yet they view themselves so superior and make jokes against us.. But anyway i am proud of being turk and i think turkiye is the greatest turkish nation and all turks in the world should learn from turkey and try to become like turkey, then the whole world will know the turks not only in turkey but all over. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 07:21
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Well, he was nearly an atheist. He had a speech with a German reporter about religions, and he declared all his ideas to them. But he has photos with the cemaat praying together, emphasizing the importance of religion etc. Anyway, as I said before, no problem with him being Jewish if he was. Jews were way more loyal and benefical for Turks than Orthodox and even Sunnite subjects. Marx was also a Jew from ancestry but an atheist. Khazar Turks were also Turks from ancestry but Jews. Ataturk's father may have some Jewish origins, but he was a Turk and Muslim (not very religious one tough). And I have a question that you might be familiar with. What hapened to the Jews and Turks of Thesellanoiki? We know that it was the capital of Rumelia with a dominant Muslim population during the Ottoman reign. Where are they now? ------------- |
Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 08:26
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As for the Turks, weren' you the one that mentioned population exchange in a different topic. Bingo There are hundreds of records that support the movement of the Jews of Thessaloniki towards Constantinopoli in the early stages of it's conquer, where they formed an enormous economic community. Others of course remained and others moved to Anatolia. You see there was actually a large population comming in from Spain after their expultion sometime in 1460.. Before ww2 records mention some 80-90000 in Thessaloniki alone, but.....we know what happened to them.. If you want to see todays Jews, any simple search will give you loads of info on their population, cultural organizations, publications...etc There is actually a quite active Synagogue here in my city as in many others in Hellas. ------------- To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent. |
Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 09:09
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Constantinopoli? Its hasnt been called that 1453. Just incase you didnt know the city is called ISTANBUL, try to keep up with modern politics. Erci, respect to your father a true hero Gazi i belive was orginally a title similar to Mujahid. The defneder of the faith, although under the Ottomans its meaning came to mean those that have participated and survived in a war for either the faith of nation. -------------
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Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 09:24
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Hmmm, no we've done this before and the name Constantinoupoli was used
well into the 1920's. But anyway, I was refering to that time and not
now... Here is the previous discussion: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4150&KW=turkish+flag - |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 10:05
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What bingo? We arent having a flame war of beting each other, I just asked the question. Yes, most of the Turks of Thesellanoiki were transfered to Turkey. But I am still not informed about the Jews. It had a large Jewish population for sure.
No it wasnt. It was Konstantiniye. And if we suddenly decide to call it Ahmedabad or Yeni Balasagun, the world would recognize that name. IT's all about choices. "Gazi" means "veteran" in Turkish, a soldier who is injured or wounded during a war for Islam or his nation. We dont use it similar to the original meaning.
A shi**y ignorant non sense claim again. Gazi means wounded soldier. Ataturk won this title after he was injured when fighting the enemy. My greatpa was also a Gazi, when fighting in Yemen-Aden against British, the reason there wasnt against Christianity at all.
lol If Ataturk hated Arabs, (definately he didnt), he had fine reasons to hate for sure. But he didnt, he was a man of logic, not a man of personal or religious missions. He only cared about his nations' future, and he succeeded. God bless his soul. ------------- |
Posted By: Ardashir
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 10:40
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In Iran,nobody hate Azeris.But may be in Australia the White ultra-Nationalists hate and even beat you! Anayway,as I said,in Iran nobody hate you! ------------- http://khakokhoon.blogfa.com |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:02
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Do I have to remind you, Tork-e Khar? ------------- |
Posted By: Phallanx
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:03
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Oguz There is no flame war, don't understand where you see it, I just pointed out that you know where the Turkish population went. Why do you insist on an already discussed topic that has proven your beliefs on the name issue to be wrong. Since you obviously didn't look at the link I posted and since you obviously forgot about that discussion. Let me re-post. 1921 envelope  Here are some documents with the name Constantinopoli but couldn't find anything older than the 1920's: 1911, "De Paris à Constantinople, les Guides Bleus" Hachette http://www.trainsofturkey.com/maps/Constantinople_1911_L.jpg - http://www.trainsofturkey.com/maps/Constantinople_1911_L.jpg "Plan du réseau, Société des Tramways de Constantinople" http://www.trainsofturkey.com/maps/istanbul_tram11.jpg - http://www.trainsofturkey.com/maps/istanbul_tram11.jpg Constantinople postcards 1910 http://www.rubylane.com/shops/curioshop/item/col8166 Censored Postcard Constantinople to Vienna.1917: http://www.rubylane.com/shops/curioshop/item/col6149 1917: Old Turkey: Attractive Postcard of two Muslims http://www.rubylane.com/shops/curioshop/item/col7120 All the above prove that the name was used, Let's not continue the discussion with already proven facts.
I'm not claiming anything. Of course you know your language but I'm providing links that have a different opinion than yours. What's wrong with that??? Someone is wrong but that isn't me, I'm just copy/pasting what others have to say. I gave the University of Calgary above. Here are more: "Gazi Warrior of the http://www.allaboutturkey.com/islam.htm - Islamic faith , often awarded as
a title in recognition for valor in battle. Many gazis were mercenaries,
fighting for booty or a chance to establish a chieftaincy on conquered
territory. Sometimes spelled ghazi in English. Many http://www.allaboutturkey.com/ottoman.htm#sultan - Ottoman
sultans called themselves as Gazi." Ghazi Warrior In its active participle form of ghāzī ("one who takes part in a ghāziya"), the word is technical term for a Muslim frontier/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marches" title="Marches - march warrior whose constant attacks against a neighboring infidel power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futuh" title="Futuh - open the way for the expansion of Islam . Thus as an institution the ghāziya fits entirely within the conceptual framework of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad" title="Jihad - jihad :
----------------------------------- Ghazi Among Mohammedans, a warrior champion or veteran, esp. in the destruction of infidels. http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/gh/ghazi168951.html - http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/gh/ghazi168951.html ------------------------------------ Ghazi: Warrior or conqueror, used both as a title and as a means of attracting Turkomans to fight for the faith and for the expanding principality. http://web.mit.edu/4.614/www/handout16.html - http://web.mit.edu/4.614/www/handout16.html --------------------------------------- the ghazi tradition, warriors who fight for the faith against the infidel. the term ghazi is given to all those who kill and infidel, and is a last name that can be found among some muslims. http://www.andrewiandodge.com/archives/000278.html - http://www.andrewiandodge.com/archives/000278.html ---------------------------- The term ghazi came to mean "warrior for the faith," http://www.army.mil/professionalwriting/volumes/volume3/march_2005/3_05_1.html - http://www.army.mil/professionalwriting/volumes/volume3/marc h_2005/3_05_1.html ----------------------- For Muslims of his day he was Ghazi meaning a Mohammadan warrior, a slayer of infidels. http://www.romani.org/rishi/retygajo.html - http://www.romani.org/rishi/retygajo.html ---------------------------- There are literally hundreds of sites that connect Gazi/Ghazi to warrior of faith, I hope you get the point, since even 'all about Turkey' is one of my sources.
I'm sure you can't reject Lord Kinross as a source. You need to read the quote all over again, cause you're jumping to conclusions that aren't presented in the quote. There is no reference to 'love' or any other kind of sympathy towards Christianity. The quote supports what you said earlier, it is talking about him considering Islam a backward religion that was holding Turkey back and was an obstacle in 'civilizing' the country. ------------- To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:03
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Your IP. You are a lying provocateaur. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:09
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Quite funny how these jokes are actually told also by Torks themselves.
------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:14
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1- Who is a lying provocator? Arpad? 2- If he was lying, how did Ardashir know that? 3- The topic was about Turanians (which is a wrong word in my opinion), and it became a topic about Ataturk and provocative lyers. It isnt just absurd, but funny though... ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:19
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I accused him of lying and being a provocatuear, he deleted his post above mine, the one where he asked "how did you know I am from Aust.?" to Ardashir. Ardashir must have read it from the topic I locked in the Iranian forum, the one that was intended to cause disruption. Ataturk was brought into the equation as a pure Turanian then I mentioned I read somewhere that he has maybe Jewish origins from Spain. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:22
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Claiming ethnic purity isnt just absurd but racist and nonsense. Ataturk was a Turk. End of discussion. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:22
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I know. ------------- |
Posted By: Arpad
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:42
| hey dont call me a lyer, i deleted the message because i already sent you a pm thats why. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:46
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I call it how I see it, next time don't fabricate personal experiences, or at least take all factors into consideration before you do. ------------- |
Posted By: Iranban
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 11:53
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I have a question. Isn't it said that Azaris are turkicized Persians meaning their language is a Turkic language? As for me an azari is someone from northern Iran therefore an Azari look like someone from northern Iran And the sentence and get alot of racism towards me and my friends from iranians. well all i can say is=
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Posted By: Iranban
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 12:09
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I found this: Turk khodeti
mailto:maliama@tiscali.fr - Keyvan Valizadeh I am sorry but my english is very weak. My name is Keyvan Valizadeh and I am an Iranian Azari born in Belgium. I was taught in my childhood that we were "iranian tork" but when I was 16, I told myself that this was weird to be both iranian and turk. I wanted to be sure of my identity. And I remember that I hated the Persians because I heard from pan-turkist azaris that we were being oppressed by them for hundreds years. The fact that we spoke a turkish language was enough for me to claim I was in fact a Turk. But with time I discovered that these pan-turkist nationalists didn't reveal us all about our history and many of their claims was totally false. But I feel to be turkish even if I begin hesitating about the origin of my people. I was suddenly sad not to know my origins. I begin to search books about the history of the Azaris. I read books of Ahmad Kasravi and books of the "Azari nationalists". I understood that the historical facts were hidden by those "nationalists" and I found that many of their claims were lies (like the Azari language didn't exist and that the Azaris are in fact Turks that settled in Iran). Archeological founds said indeed the opposite. http://www.mage.com/poetrybooks.html"> My parents were very disappointing when I said to them that they were not Iranians and in fact traitors that prefered to change their identity. The castle of Babak Khorramdin, this Azari Hero that fought the Arabs was a proof for them that our ancestors were Iranians as both the Azaris and Persians spoke different dialects of the same language and that both were Zoroastrians at that time. I was really impressed about their knowledge and was rather amused by the fact that I could have found answers of all my questions without reading all of these books. Azaris are in fact aware of their history, something the Turks don't know. But I wasn't still conviced. I went to this famous Babak Castle that the pan-turkist Azaris praised. I didn't know why these pan-turkists that I admired earlier didn't said what was the real goal of his fight against the Arabs. Years before in Maragheh (where I am from) the pan-turkists gave me leaflets that said the "first Azeri hero that fought the Persians for their independance was Babak Khorramdin". I was now shocked because I knew it was false. I knew that Babak (whose name I noticed was not turkish) was fighting the Arabs and not the Persians and wanted to restore the glory of Persia and the ancient religion of the Persians. And I distanced myself from them. Because I hated their ocean of lies and like Hafez said: Do not consider the intestinal conflicts of sects for, not having found the truth, they went to the invention http://www.gifttoiran.com/detail.asp?refer=isTrue&depid=32&depidp=1&proid=25&child=yes&af=iranian.com&bn=39 - Today I feel great and can argue about our origins with other Azaris. Many of the Azaris I spoke had discovered the Truth too and were glad to say that their ancestors were Cyrus or Dariush and not the Mongols the Turks claim to be their ancestors. Some others didn't want to know. Books about Azaris are indeed very rare and the Iranians don't have written books about us contrary to the Turks. Today even if I don't hate the Persian anymore (how could I hate my brothers and sisters ?) I am really confused about the fact that they have dropped us in this historical battle. Because I assume they think they have no right to intervene. Something that is totally irresponsable. If others peoples of the Iranian family (be it Lors, Persians, Baluchs, Kurds, Bakhtiaris, Gilakis, etc) don't help us the political agenda of Turkey or the pan-turkists will be achieved.
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2005/June/Azari/index.html - http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2005/June/Azari/index.html |
But I was sure I was a Turk because of the language my family spoke.