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the migration of maori

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of Oceania, South-East Asia and Pacific
Forum Discription: Discuss the history of SE Asia: Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore etc.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25413
Printed Date: 28-Oct-2021 at 01:49
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Topic: the migration of maori
Posted By: tommy
Subject: the migration of maori
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2008 at 18:46
One theory states that maori came from Taiwan ,during the hang and then 3 kingdoms period, Hans attacked the native of Southern china, so they migrated to thetaiwan and then moved South.
 
I read the history of three kingdoms, at 3 century , South China was occupied by the Sun family, this family had a long struggle with the native there, finally they crushed the native, the Sun family also send ship to Taiwan. Some theory state that Maori came from taiwan , then moved to South Pacific. During the attack from the Sun family, the Native finally moved to today Fujian, it was their last strong hold, but they were crushed. So it was possible some of them moved to Taiwan and then to Southern Pacific. Sun navy to Taiwan was to chase them.


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leung



Replies:
Posted By: tommy
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2008 at 04:13
no one say something????

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leung


Posted By: Ikki
Date Posted: 21-Sep-2008 at 18:33
Search about Austronesian peoples and you will find the answer: that theory is nearly impossible.
 
1. They arrived to New Zealand more than thousand years after the time you are refering.
 
2. Maori by languaje and culture are polynesians and the movements of these peoples can be traced across the Pacific and Southeast Asia, until exactly, Taiwan, but the beginning of this movement began 8000 years ago, and they were austronesian peoples, not sino-tibetan like your story.
 
regards


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Posted By: tommy
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 04:04
Those native  who lived in Fujian who was defeated by Sun family  was not Sino-Tibetian , they were  most likely Southern language group, just that Native of taiwan was Southern language group, of course there were other people moved to new zealand, but it was possible that native in Fujian hoad moved to taiwan then to the Southern pacific, they combined with other Southern language enthic group

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leung


Posted By: Ikki
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2008 at 14:10
The southern group is a branch of sino-tibetan languages; the natives of Fujian was the Min part of that branch, they were the ancestors of most of taiwanese from where developed the taiwanese language. But the first natives who today are only 2% of the population isn't Min but austronesic, they are the true brothers of maoris.
 
Then you have the problem of mainland China cultural items in the Pacific of that time, where are?


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Posted By: Sander
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 02:03
The map below (  there are better ones ) gives some indication of the ancient situation in south china before chinese expansion ( roughly 4 th century BC and after).
 
If  basically right, then : south west china  had tibeto-Burmese languages. In the other southern parts , austro -asiatic languages and  thai-kadai languages .
 
Fujian ( min yue area  )is presented as a question mark . Its between between daic and austronesian regions. They could have been still austronesians ( who, for example had remained on the coast or had settled there ) or daic speakers or maybe included groups of both ( IMO the best option for the time).
 
 
If the ancestors of  the taiwan natives came from south east china, then a linguistic relation with Daic and/or austro asiatic seems more promising than sino tibetan. Not that this automatically means that daic, evolved in austronesian languages or vice versa. A common proto language might have evolved in separate families, as sometimes suggested.
 
Maoris are ultimately  related to  the other austronesians but  in particular to tahitians and Cook islanders. They sailed from there and settled NZ some 1000 years ago.  Long open sea trip, some 3000 km.
 


Posted By: tommy
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2008 at 03:36

but any relation between cook islanders and tahitians with the native of taiwan?



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leung


Posted By: Sander
Date Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 03:04
^Not directly or related to han times.
 
When dealing with histories suggesting early contacts between china ( as geographic area or as chinese state) and places far east of Japan, the Hui-shen account , for example, has more potential. But that 's a whole other topic.


Posted By: Nickmard
Date Posted: 05-May-2009 at 11:16
There is an interesting documentary where two Maori men take a DNA test that points to Taiwan. They go there and find that the Moari culture and native Taiwanese culture share the same customs/art/traditions. Very interestng. I was born and raised in NZ and have many Moari friends (including my gf) but when you tell them they are related to Taiwan they don't beleive it. Interesting stuff. Before the use of DNA testing many thought that the Moaris came from Hawaii or South America.

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Posted By: Spey
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2009 at 21:24
 Kia ora kautau katoa.
    Nickmard  is pretty well on the mark.
 The two Kiwi (NZ) lads in the doco , one Maori  , one Samoan , followed their respective DNA ,  back thru Polynesia to Taiwan.
 Maori , seeing as this thread is about them , are connected to all of the Pacific Peoples , and beyond.
This is the doco here .
 
""  Made in Taiwan

A simple DNA test which involves a swab in the mouth can reveal where your ancestors came from 30,000 years ago. In Made in Taiwan, molecular biology leaves the classroom as the two central characters, Nathan Rarere and Oscar Kightley, both of Polynesian descent, take us on a journey across the Pacific and into Asia in search of their roots.

During the course of the film, Nathan who opens the envelope with the results of his DNA sampling, discovers that his Mum whose grandparents were originally from Cornwall, has a maternal lineage which in fact stretches back to East Eurasia and America.

In Samoa, Oscar who is expecting the envelope to confirm his Polynesian roots is shocked to discover that his paternal lineage goes back to Central and South Eurasia. This discovery suggests Asian ancestry as his modern day descendants are found in the Middle East and the Himalayas.

With stunning photography of their Pacific to Asia voyage captured on HD, Nathan and Oscar replicate the journey taken by their ancestors in reverse, starting with the Cook Islands and Samoa, then Vanuatu, and ending eventually in Taiwan. There they are amazed by what they discover.

Oscar Kightley is a member of the popular Polynesian comedy group The Naked Samoans, who also produce the award-winning animated series /programs/bro_town - bro'Town , which airs regularly on Link TV. Like Made in Taiwan, bro'Town highlights the racial melting pot that is contemporary New Zealand  ""

 Watch it if you get the chance .
 
Nāku noa, nā
Spey
 


Posted By: TheNode
Date Posted: 13-Jan-2011 at 06:37
A sample, from each island? Hardly a good sample of the population.

Its a weak study, and obviously made to be digested by the public, it seems it is more about socio-economics as New Zealand has become a prime country, for South-East/Chinese migrants, and the strong economic relationship with China and South-East Asia.


Posted By: theSinitic
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2014 at 17:30
Originally posted by Ikki

Search about Austronesian peoples and you will find the answer: that theory is nearly impossible.
 
1. They arrived to New Zealand more than thousand years after the time you are refering.
 
2. Maori by languaje and culture are polynesians and the movements of these peoples can be traced across the Pacific and Southeast Asia, until exactly, Taiwan, but the beginning of this movement began 8000 years ago, and they were austronesian peoples, not sino-tibetan like your story.
 
regards


Yes exactly.  It was the millet farming complex of Cishan-Peiligang Jiahu of China at the upper YELLOW RIVER, not anywhere else as so many would like to think, which was the original linguistic homeland of Austronesians and their expansion.  The reason why the Austronesians look different to the people inhabiting the Yellow River today is because of different cultural backgrounds.  When Austronesians first developed out of their homeland they were 8000 plus years ago and had matriarchy.  It means the development of the society and language revolved around the females.  When they spread to other corners of their Austronesian diaspora they intermarried with other males.  The phenotypes changed, new words were introduced etc and the transition to patriarchy was made only in recent decades.  A lot of people are still stuck in the old fashioned mentality that just because the Yellow River has a lot of O3 that it must have just been Han.



Laurent Sagart's paper "The expansion of Setaria farmers in East Asia" and Stephan Lansing's independant studies on the Austronesian's expansion by way of matriarchs are good primers to the subject of Austronesian expansion.  The matriarchal expansion of Austronesians has already been corroborated independantly by many accounts but Stephan Lansing's research delved directly into the heart of the matter by using male haplotype analysis.

http://www.academia.edu/3077307/The_expansion_of_Setaria_farmers_in_East_Asia - http://www.academia.edu/3077307/The_expansion_of_Setaria_farmers_in_East_Asia
[TUBE]qcseZd6zP1w[/TUBE]

If there was an ethnic patriarchal component to the expansion, the sampling would reflect dominancy.  They would reflect a pattern where no amount of invasion by outlier clades would affect the population because they would experience total extinction in about 50 generations time.  Stephan and his team had more than 100 generations of Austronesian expansion in the Pacific to precisely scale their mathematical model.  A patriline would become noticeably dominant in just several or so generations let alone 100.  Their passive dominancy itself would completely wipe out differentiated clades by having a reproduction bias of as little as 5 percent above the rest of the population.  Obviously this was not the case anywhere in Austronesian speaking territory.  The original expanding bloodlines were all matriarchal and were established with highly diversified male haplotypes in the differing regions.  The only reason different areas ended up with specific affinity to male haplotypes had to to with bottlenecking scenarios but never due to male dominancy.

Facial tattoos don't just come from anywhere.  There was a specific line of female inheritance.



A lot of Sino-Tibetans living in the Yellow River area thinking their land was always central to China may become displeased upon hearing this kind of research but it is what it is.  The truth is truth no matter how you slice it.  The barbarians of Zhou China had the distinction of living in areas like the Yangtze but the Yangtze itself was never the point of origin for these identities.  The barbarians had came from elsewhere such as the Yellow River and off they went in search of new land.  Undoubtedly they created a diaspora and overlapped generously with civilizational areas of China to be recorded in history.


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http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm

Liangzhu was typified by hallmarks which glorified 5000 years of China.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 27-Jul-2014 at 07:00
For starters there is no doubt that Polynesians/Maoris like all humans ultimately have origins back to the Flood and pre-Flood world. As with most cultures/nations, Polynesian/Maori myth has versions of Trinity, Cain & Abel?, the Flood, and the Tower of Babel.
10 canoes might connect with 10 patriarchs?
Noah may be connected with any of either Nu’u “escaped the flood in a large vessel with a house on top of it” (Polynesia), Nu-wi (West Irian inscription), Moa “may have been the ancestor of mankind [like Adam], was given birth to in centre of the earth by earth-mother Papa” (Polynesia, moai statues?), Roua “father of the stars” (Polynesia), Lo(w)a "dwelt alone in primeval sea at beginning" (Micronesia), or a few other possibilities.
3 castes (tangata Rangitira/chiefs, tangata Maori/people, slaves) may connect with the tripartite caste system of many ancient cultures, which come from Noah cursing Ham via Canaan to be slave of Shem.
Joseph famine ~ great drought of Ta'aroa?
I'm very interested myself in finding out which of the 3 sons of Noah and which of the 70/72 nations of Genesis 10 they come from (as I am for other cultures/nations/races too).

There is no denying that genetic evidence points to the Maoris/Polynesians coming from south/east Asia (though maybe abit further south than Taiwan, like Indonesia). However there seems to also be some evidence for some origins from via South America [Atlantis]? The Waitaha say there were 3 peoples who made up their people inculding the redhaired Uru-kehu who came from west, and the Polyneisan "Maoriori" who came from the east.
It might even be possible that they could even have come from Antarctica since they came from a place that was ice then not ice then ice again?

Genetics/Genome/DNA is not necessarily wholly adequite by itself. One must also consider other historical, linguistic, mythological, etc information. NZ has a few different peoples (Tangata Whenua, Maoris, Morioris, Urukehu/star-walkers, Kritea/stone-people, Waitaha, Turehu, Patupaiarehe, Greenstone folk, Maru-iwi, Moehau, Rapuwai), and NZ/Polynesia has had alot of voyagers visits (Wakea?, Pourangohua, Ure?, Maui, Rata, Kiwa, Maku, Hui Te Rangiora, Hotu Matua, Hiro, Kupe, Toi). They also have a few different lands of origin (Hawaiki, Uru, Irihia, Atia, Manuka, Hiva). Polynesians have been classed as either/both Mongoloid or Caucasoid. Malayo-Polynesian/Austroneisan/Maori/Hawaiian has some connections with Indo-European/Aryan/Greek (eg rua/two, toro/three, lahui/leute/lay/laos, kahui/cow?) and Hamito-Semitic (wha "four", kahui/ka(ui)?)? The Pacific Islands could have had a number of stranded seafarers in ancient times?

Evidence for coming from the west/Asia includes:
DNA of those few Maoris traced to Taiwan.
Haplogroup info also seems to trace Polynesians (C2aO3) back to south-east Asia.
Polynesians come from Uru "west" which may be Ulu "end of the world" (name for jungled interior, Dayak, Sarawak, s.e. Asia). (Gilroy mentions it could be connected with Uluru of Australia. Lochore thought Uru was Subartu.)
Polynesians came from Hawaiki which Brunner thought relates to Java.
Ra "sun (god)" may be related to Egyptian Ra/Re/Rat (and/or Indian Ravi).
Maoris have connections with Dravidians/Tamils? (Joan Leaf. T Jantsang. Tamil bell in NZ.)
Turehu could possibly be connected with Turvasu/Druhayu?
Polynesians are sometimes classed as Mongoloid.
Easter Island script and Indus Valley Script similarities.
Kumara could connect with Indian god name?
If my theory is right that South America/Atlantis shifted west then Pacific would have been closer to Asia than Americas before then? (& Heyerdahl's currents may have been reverse direction then?)
Irihia could be connected with Inihia/Vrihia/India (Lochore connected it with Indo-China)?


Perhaps:
Uru ~ Ulu / Pasuruan
Manuka ~ Moluccas / Malacca
Irihia ~ Irian
Hawaiki ~ Java / Sabah
cult of the head ~ headhunters


Possible evidence for coming from the east/America/Atlantis includes:
Uru-kehu is "red haired", and Polynesians come from Uru "west" which may be related to the Urus/Uros of Peru/Bolivia (and to that Sitchin says inscriptions in South America have Uru sign). In this case "west" would be that America/Atlantis was/is west of Old World?)
The Kumara or sweet potato came from or is also found in South America.
Big/long ears in both areas. Tiki in both areas.
Polynesia and South America/Atlantis both had Heliolithic culture.
Ra "sun (god)" may connect with Illa-Ra of Peru.
Hokan-Siouan and Malayo-Polynesia similarities? Quechua & Maori similarities?
Moai statues similar to some American ones? (Atlas motif?)
10 canoes could connect with 10 kings Atlantis?
Toppled Easter Island statutes and NZ buildings/structures/monuments might date back to shift/"sinking" of South America/Atlantis?
Atua ~ Atau??
Easter Island script is possibly related to some ancient Peruvian script?
Pacific Islands might be the many other islands of Atlantis account (and the 7 islands of Persephone?)
Maori tikis & similar "Mexican tiki" (& Bolivian "tiki" standing-stone sculpture?).
Turehu could connect with Tula(n)/Tule/Toltec or Tuleyone?
Some Pacific/NZ stone structures have been compared with Tiwanaku stone building type.

tentative rough partial NZ/Pacific timeline:
"26500 bp" Taupo eruption
Indus Valley civ 3000-2500 bc
2225 bc transit Venus
3000 yo Gympie pyramid Australia;
Tocharians plaid/tartan 3000 yo
Phoenicians 666 bc NZ
607 bc Necho
Waitaha shell mounds 300 bc
Dakumba Fiji inscription 250 bc
250 bc Pitcairn inscription
239/232 bc Rata/Maui, eclipse
212 bc Eratosthenes; Ptolemaic coin 221-204 bc NZ;
Waitaha 2 cents BC/sev thous yrs/over 2000 yrs
Ptolemaic coin 181-145 bc NZ; 160 bc kiore rat
Egyptian skull in NZ cave 2000 yo (Elliot-Smith 1931)
"58/55 bc Nephite Hagoth" (Mormon)
55 bc deep water Celt ships (Caesar)

2000 yo Ponape pottery thermoluminescence date?
2000 yo Kaimanawa "wall/pyramid"?
burn offs, erosion, dune movt 2000 ya (D. Sutton)

Wakea 1st-Cent-CE/time-of-Jesus
4 oceans on Andhra coins 1st cent ad
50-150 ce kiore rat
151 ad Ptolemy map Bona Fortuna?
181/186 ad Taupo eruption
232 ad Taupo eruption
initial occupation 300 ad (Prof Cumberland)
Krakatoa 416 (Javanese book of kings)
Ilopango/tbj eruption 450+-30y/408-535/536
"Pago 530+/-150y"?
["Krakatoa 537"?]
Rabaul 540+/-100y;
Pueblo Map 650 ad
650/700 ad (1250 ya) Hui-te-Rangiora
750 (Prof Cumberland)
760-80 Borobudur
850 ad Maku
800-900 ad Maoris arrive
945 Raka-taura
950 ad Kupe
Moa-hunter 950 (Dr Duff)
10th cent Odin carvings like Maori tikis
1000 ad/900 yo Ponape fire pit ashes carbon date?
1150 ad Toi
1175 Moriori
Chinese maps of Australia (incl NZ) 12th cent ("got from Norse/Vikings")
12th cent Tamil bell NZ
1280 ce kiore rat
1300 archaic moa-hunter
1325 Maori forerunners
1350/14th cent ad Great Fleet
1450 battle of 5 forts
1450 Taranaki inscription
1450 ad Peru mummies
1480 Túpac Inca Yupanqui (9 mo, 2 isls)
1400-1500 classic maori material culture, expans, pa
1500 moa extnct
1512/1521 Portuguese
1522/1520s Portugese Cristovao de Mendonca mahogany boat/ship NZ
1576 Spanish Juan Fernandez helmet NZ
1600 classic iwi
1642 Dutch Abel Tasman
1700-1730 ngai tahu


Posted By: kianakiwi
Date Posted: 24-Jan-2016 at 03:13
Arthur robin you hit a home run with that one. Totally agree with you.

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Kianakiwi


Posted By: Diaz_Zapata
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2016 at 12:42
Originally posted by kianakiwi

Arthur robin you hit a home run with that one. Totally agree with you.


I second that. Arthur you've done a great job breaking this down.  Thanks. Ya I always wondered if the Polynesians/Maori emigrated from the  eastern asias, originally from China then onwards to Taiwan.  

Some nice pictures of Maori people here

http://www.beforethey.com/tribe/maori

& further reading ,
http://www.virtualoceania.net/newzealand/culture/maori/


The DNA does point towards China/ Taiwan. Similar thing with the Mayans. it is said their ancestry comes from China & the mayan dialect has some Mandarin vowel style of speech in it. 

Good day ya'll.


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“Music in the soul can be heard by the universe.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2016 at 04:05
sorry it accidentally posted when i was composing and accidentally pressed wrong button.



Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2016 at 04:24
Sorry i didn't know about the replies & comments until recently. Thanks for that Kianakiwi (& Diaz).

A little bit more casual/tentative (i hope this doesn't wreck/ruin it). One thing i always look at in mysteries of origins of any nation is their "myths/legends"/traditions, and i also look at their pantheon of gods/deities to see if i can find their origins.  This is a quick first compilation of Maori/Polynesian pantheon of gods/deities:

Atua "God"
Atea/Avatea
Ao "light/white"
Arohirohi "mirages, [love]"
Auahituroa "comets, fire"
Fati/Fadu
Faumea/Haumea/Haumi(a(tiketike)) "wild/uncultivated food" (fem.)
Hapai (fem.)
Hiro
Hine(-nui-te-po)/Hina/Ina "1st woman, death, night, moon"
Hine Titama
Hine-ahu-one
Hine-uri
Hine-titamauri
Ina (fem.)
Ika-roa "the fish that gave birth to all the stars in the Milky Way"
Ikatere "fish, sea creatures"
Io "God, Jupiter"
Iowahine "woman" (fem.)?
Kane
Kaitangata
Kiwa "ocean/fish"
Kore?
Ku "war, man, stability"
Kui "chthonic demigod"
Kanaloa
Laufakanaa
[Lohiau/Lohau]
Lono
Mahuika/Mafuike "fire" (fem.)
Makeatutara "underworld"
[?"Marai" (ref Sykes)?]
[Marama "moon"?]
Maru "war"/"fresh water"?
Maui/Mawi "demigod, culture hero, trickster"
Mataroa/Mataora
Nu'u "Noah"
Moa
Moehau "yowie/yeti/bigfoot/apeman"
Nuvarahu/Niwareka (fem.)
Ono
Oro ["red, war"?]
Orongo
Papa(tuanuku) "earth" (fem.)
Po?
Poua-kai
Pourangahua "flew to NZ on back of bird"
Puhaorangi "celestial"
Punga "ugly creatures, all things ugly, sharks/lizard/rays"
Ra "sun"
Roua
Rata
Rangi(-nui/nuwi) "sky"
Rehua "star Antares, light, stars, sun, moon, healing"
Rona
Rongo(_ma_tane) "peace, cultivated food"
Rongomai
Rohe "spirit world"
Ru "Atlas"
Ruaumoko "quakes"
Sisimatai-laa "sun"
Sina "moon" (fem.)
Tawhaki
Te Po "the dark/night"
Te Kore
Te Otane "a giant"
Tama-nui-te-ra "sun"
Tane(mahuta) "birds, trees, light"
Tane-rore "shimmering air"
Tiki "1st man"
Tanga-roa "sea/ocean"
Tangotango "celestial"
Tawhiri(-matea) "storms, weather"
Te Ika a Maui "fish"
Te Anu-matao
Te Uira "lightning"
Tinirau "fish"
Tu(-mata-uenga) "man, stability, war"
Tu-te-wehiwehi "reptiles"
Tuna
Taniwha "lake monster/spirit"
Uenuku "rainbows"
Uru
Varima(-...) (fem.)
Vatea/Wakea
Whaitiri "thunder" (fem.)
Whiro "darkness, evil".


I haven't  yet cracked the origins of any much of them, though have lots of possible connections.

Take just one (Tane/Kane) for starters & example and see if anyone has any ideas.

Tane/Kane/[TeOtane?] possible candidate connections (considering any/all possibilities from reasonible to absurd):
Ziana (spirit of heaven, Chaldean/Sumerian)? Tian/Tien (heaven, Chinese)? Teanoi (Micronesian)?  Odanie (lord of light, Sumerian)? Etana? Votan? Cain (Biblical)? Kan (Mayan)? Kon (Peruvian)? Kane (North American Indian, ref said by the person that told me to be Heyerdahl or Fell)?

Note that Ziana is also found in Peru/Andes (refs Sitchin  'Lost Realms', Fitzgerald-Lee 'Great Migration'?).

Another thing i've always been interested in  but haven't been able to follow up is the Maori ancient genealogies.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 23-Sep-2016 at 10:35
This is a recent new tentative theory of suggested matches between Maori/Polynesian gods and Sumerian gods (and Biblical characters).We are suggesting cognate names matches ("Zeus = Dyaus") not just synonymous nature correspondences ("Venus = Aphrodite"). Please remember that these are only first/provisional tentative seemingly possible matches, and we know that it is possible that any or all of them could be wrong. (Whatever things we may be more or less wrong/dumb about, it doesn't mean that we are all/always wrong/dumb or that orthodox/others are all/always right/good/smart.) Maori gods origins on the way to being solved possibly?

table of Maori/Polynesian & Sumerian [Babel, & Hebrew/Biblical] possible matches:

Rangi(nui) ~ An/dAnu/Dingir [El]?
Papa(tuanuku) ~ Baba/Ba(h)u? Bagas?
Atea/Vatea/Wakea/Avatea ~ Utu/(A)Uduin/dUtuan/dUtuue [Adam/Awdawm/Adonai]??
Tu ~ Utu [Adam]??
Haumea/Haumi(a(tiketike))/Faumea ~ Nin-Hursaga/Nin-Kharsag [Khavah/Eve] / ... [Abel/Hevel]?
Tane(mahuta)/Kane ~ En-ki [Cain]?
Hine/Hina/Ina/Sina ~ Inana [Naamah]? Nin-...?
Rehua (star) ~ Serida [Seth]??
Rongo(mai)/Lono/Rogo/Ro'o/Ono ~ Nanna(-Suen) [Noah(+Shem)]?
Tawhiri(matea) ~ Zabar-dibba? Zababa/Zawawa [Japheth]?
Tangaroa/Kanaloa/Ta'aroa ~ Nin-girsu/Nimir-rud [Cush]?
Tu(mata-uenga)/Ku ~ Nin-Urta [Nimrod, earth-beast]??
Ikatere ~ Is(h)kur [Asshur, Sea-Beast]??

less-likely possible alternatives:
Io/Ihoiho/Icho/Kiho/Kahiko ~ ... [...]?
Tane (probably-not) ~ An/dAnu/TeAnoi/Tian/Tien/Zi-ana??
Rehua (star) ~ Serida [Satan]??
Tu ~ Utu [Adam]? / Kur?
Hine/Hina/Ina/Sina/wahine/Iowahine ~ [Khavah/Eve (Chia/Chie / Quinoa/Keenwah)]??
Haumi(a)/Haumea (probably-not) ~ [Ham / Shem]?
Tu ~ Nin-Urta?
Io/Ihoiho/Icho ~ Is(h)kur [Asshur]??

We should mention that for some of the names beginning with T- and/or R- that:
- in Sumerian some gods had d- (for dingir "god") prefixed, eg dAnu, dNirgal, dUtu, dingir-Mah.
- in Malayo-Polynesian there is a d/r interchange.
- d/t interchange in/between some language groups.
- in Sumerian was an n/r interchange.

For more details/info on the gods of the 3 cultures natures & family relationships see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_Māori_gods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Māori_deities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Māori_mythology
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25413

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mesopotamian_mythology
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36864
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_Babylonian_gods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descendants_of_Adam_and_Eve
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/At-a-glance/The_Bible/101
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_Noah

There are alot more explanations we have not included here, there are other disoveries/theories of ours that may connect with Maori origins (between Ararat or Sumer/Babel and NZ) eg Atlantis city is Tiahuanaco, the  great city of Asshur also seems to be Tiahuanaco/Atlantis city.

(Any right original connections are copyright re credit for discoveries & work me Sean/'A-R'.
Any dumb/wrong are at least 50 percent or more that fault of all the criminal things been/being done to me including fluoridated tap water, etc.)


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2016 at 03:39

I found some wrong correspondences in the Maori gods/deities table. (I regret posting it because i don't like making a fool of myself (and don't like wrong things detracting from my right/good discoveries/theses) and i don't like giving away helpful hints to rivals because i don't want to risk that they rather than me may get the credit for improved connections.) We have been trying to improve and prefect (and hence correct) the matches.

It turns out that it seems that Tane is not Enki/Cain, but rather Tane is Ziana/Enlil/Helel/Satan, and Tiki is Zikia/Enki/Cain. (In Sumerian Enlil/Ellil/Ellel (wind/ghost/spirit lord) separates An/heaven & Ki/earth, in Biblical Helel "Lucifer" (prince of air, angel of light) tries to take place of El-Elyon "God most high"; in Maori/Polynesian Tane (god of trees, light, birds) separates Rangi/heaven and Papa/earth. There doesn't seem to be an l in NZ Maori? Ziana "spirit of heaven"; Zikia "spirit of earth", Cain tiller of ground.)
  We seemingly may have been wrong Haumia & Eve & Ninhursaga? Ninhursaga at least may rather match the likes of Hine-ahu-one possibly?.
  It now seems that Tu(matauenga) (war) is not Utu/Adam or Nin-Urta/Nimrod, but is Dumuzi/Tammuz/Tubalcain (metals/iron)?
  Abel/Hevel (empty) may possibly rather match Whiro (darkness/evil)? (As seen by the correspondences, the Maoris/Polynesians seem to be Hamites/Cushites not Semites, so they reverse light/good/sun and evil/dark/moon. Japheth/Tawhiri and Abel/Whiro seemingly may correspond?)

Here are our newer tentative provisional correspondences, but remember any number of them may still be wrong (and may be corrected):

Io(matua-kore) ~ Im(dugud) [Yahweh/Yahuah/Adonai(-Elohim)]?
Rangi(nui) ~ An/Ani/dAnu / Dingir (Ilu) [El]?
Avatea/Vatea/Wakea/Atea ~ Utu/(A)Uduin [Adam/Awdawm / Adonai]?
  Ruaumoko/Ru/Moko ~ Girau/Girru/Nusku/Nuska [Nawkhash/Nahash]??
Tane(mahuta/rore)/Kane ~ Ziana / Enlil [Helel ben Sachar (Satan)]?
Tiki(au-a-ha) ~ Zikia / Enki(g) [Cain]?
Tu(mata-uenga)/Ku ~ Dumuzi/Dumugin [Tubalcain]??
Whiro ~ Nergal/Ne(r)urugal/Nirwal/Ngirra/Erra [Abel/Abgal/Hevel, or Irad]?
Rehua ~ Serida [Seth]?
Makeatutara ~ Meslamtaea [Methuselah/Methusalem]??
  Rongo(matane/mai) ~ Nanna(-Suen) [Noah(+Shem)]?
Tawhiri(matea) ~ Zabardibba / Zababa/Zawawa [Japheth/Diphath]?
Tangaroa ~ Ningirsu/Nimirrud [Cush]?
Tu(te-wehiwehi) ~ Nin-Urta [Nimrod / Earth-Beast]??
Mataora/Mataroa ~ Ninurta/Nindara [Nimrod]??

Note: Tangaroa (Polynesia/Maori) = Viracocha (Peru) = "Poseidon" (Atlantis).



Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2016 at 09:26

Further tentative provisional corrections again (remember any could still be wrong) :

Rangi(nui) ~ An/dAnu/Ani / Dingir (Ilu) [El(ohim) (Adonai)]?
Avatea/Vatea/Wakea/Atea / Atua ~ d(A)gilim(ma)/Agilma [Yahweh/Yahuah/Adonai]?
Tu(mata-uenga)/Ku ~ Utu/dUtuue/(A)Uduin [Adam/Awdawm]?
Tane(mahuta/rore)/Kane ~ Ziana / Enlil/Ellil [Helel ben Sachar (Satan)]?
Hine/Hina/Ina ~ ... [Eve/Khawah]?
Tiki(au-a-ha)/Kii ~ Zikia / Enki(g) [Cain]?
Whiro ~ Nergal/Ne(r)urugal/Nirwal/Ngirra/Erra [Hevel/Abel/Abgal]??
/ Whiro ~ Gibil/Girru [Hevel/Abel]??
Ruaumoko ~ Dumuzi/Dumugin/Tammuz [Tubalcain]?
Haumea/Haumi(a(tiketike)) ~ Inanna [Naamah (&/or Ham)]?
Rehua ~ Serida [Seth]?
Rongo(matane/mai) ~ Nanna(-Suen) [Noah(+Shem)]?
Tawhiri(matea) ~ Zabardibba / Zababa/Zawawa [Japheth/Diphath]?
Tangaroa ~ Ningirsu/Nimirrud [Cush]?
Io(matua-kore)/Ihoiho/Icho ~ Is(h)kur [Asshur]??
Mataora/Mataroa ~ Ninurta/Nindara [Nimrod]??

From these (if more or less correct) Maoris/Polynesians seem to be mix of 1 Hamite/Cushite (Havilah/Asshur) [Atlantean], and 2 Shemite (Asshur / Joktan/Havilah)?



Posted By: Jmaori
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2018 at 14:33
Hi I am Maori (ngati haua) I know Maoris are the keepers of the earth (care takers) selected. All culture's had a role to play. Life wasn't ment to be a fight, not this physical life, our ancestors took the burden of spiritual fight, so all could live in peace in the physical world, if the spiritual is not right the physical would be 10 times worse. Reading a post on here about Maori from China, china know gold is jade stone, Maoris green stone (pounami). Our ancestors tattoos wer like hyroglifs, tattoos wer carved in the face not ink and needle nooooo. Tattoos wer energy engravings helped to tapped into 100% of the brain along with language, sound, movement..


Posted By: Jmaori
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2018 at 14:43
Maori King tawhio after being colonised suppressed of our spiritual existence. Look at the tattoo (energy engravings) same designs as the myans calender, tattoos carved in not ink and needle.


Posted By: Jmaori
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2018 at 14:49
they went around trying to eliminate cultures, due to jealousy against cultures for having direct connection with atua (creator) cut the heads of to try and find the secrets but couldn't 😂 😁😂😂😂😂


Posted By: Jmaori
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2018 at 14:55
look at the person sitting amongst my beheaded family (head was the spiritual place)  look at the cheeky kunt excuse my language. I bet his family is spiritually sick now. Jealous because we had connection with the creator, so they created the bible based of us..


Posted By: Jmaori
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2018 at 15:02
That's murder and he's sitting amongst the people he killed, this should be raised up through courts reimbursed for the pain and loss of our family, you take a photo like that these days you will be done for murder. But killing, cutting human heads off putting on wall will not only be classed as sadistic, crazy,  murdering, WTF! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!. but you would be sent to death.


Posted By: Arthur-Robin
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2018 at 00:44

Hello Jm, welcome. Some of what you said in the first post about spiritaul, and greenstone, and tatoos is interesting.

Re the other posts:
Im in NZ too. I agree that Europeans did some wrongs to the Maoris and that Western "culture" lifestyle etc has had some bad (eg Maoris had better teeth before Western diet).
But please remember that Maoris have also done some wrongs (cannibalism, wiped out Turehu/Patupaiarehu).
And Maoris are not the only victims. Eg it was not fun for poorer white people in Victorian England. I have had many hell wrongs been/being done to me inlcuding being forced to eat & drink fluoridated water.
And this globalist world order being pushed has some bad/evil things victimising alot of people. Winston Peters sold out.
Personally i tend to agree that most worst wrongs in world have been bad elite Europeans. But not all Europeans are bad, it has mostly been the rulers doing evil wrongs. Some Maoris are not very friendly/considerate to people like my father and me.
So in conclusion we all need to be rebirthed and considerate/respecting to each other. Not a false forced Oneness that victimises some people who are not the ones doing wrongs.
The bible is not the culprit. Jesus never hurt anyone. Unfortunately good and evil cant coexist though so there have been clashes. Most of these bad people are not (genuine) christians.
I dont know what the answer is since i see no one doing or willing/able to do anything. Its too late now there is no where to get away from them.
(Know that i was/am scared to even say all that because the elite have attacked me for saying things before, which shows that Maoris are not the only victims. But i had to reply. I dont mean any wrong to anyone, just trying to show what is & is not fair/decent/just.)

I would be very keen to learn some more about Maori history and culture.

(There was another topic here but was one-sided http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?10,1104790 .)



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NZ's mandatory fluoridation is not fair because it only forces it on the disadvantaged/some and not on the advantaged/everyone.



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