Descendants of Illyricum
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Alternative History
Forum Discription: Discussion of Unorthodox Historical Theories & Approaches
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24376
Printed Date: 19-Apr-2024 at 23:34
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Descendants of Illyricum
Posted By: EthnicAlbania
Subject: Descendants of Illyricum
Date Posted: 14-May-2008 at 00:22
|
To those that deny the fact that Albanians are descendants of Illyrians:
Latin influence, shipping, colonization, and art were always supreme on the eastern shores of the Adriatic, just as were those of Greece on the shores of the Black Sea. The Albanians even, descendants of the ancient Illyrians, were affected by the supremacy of the Latin language, from which no less than a quarter of their own meagre vocabulary is derived; though driven southwards by the Romans and northwards by the Greeks, they have remained in their mountain fastnesses to this day, impervious to any of the civilizations to which they have been exposed.
Reference: http://www.allempires.net - www.allempires.net bookstore
http://www.allempires.com/Ebooks/Default.asp?BookID=50&ChapterID=759 - http://www.allempires.com/Ebooks/Default.asp?BookID=50&ChapterID=759
I have other resources too, but assuming that you have a limited ability to research the internet I just put what I found looking around this interesting site.
|
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-May-2008 at 01:50
|
Ok?
The title is a bit misleading. I entered this thinking to engage in discussion about deascendants (focus on the plural) of ancient Illyrians in the Balkans. ------------- |
Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 14-May-2008 at 01:59
|
Cue in the narrator, Sir Christopher Lee of Lord of the Rings and Star Wars fame:
"And so the epic saga continues..."
 ------------- http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-May-2008 at 02:54
I was about to say that  ------------- |
Posted By: EthnicAlbania
Date Posted: 28-May-2008 at 07:19
|
To es_bih: Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians. The origin of the albanians are ancient Illyrians. What's so hard to understand about that? (You can always engage yourself into discussions). To: "Byzantine Emperor": Lord of the Rings, Star Wars ? Be more specific, so people can truly understand what you want to say. |
Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 28-May-2008 at 10:23
|
Where did the Albanians come from if not from the Illyrians? ------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 31-May-2008 at 11:47
|
Does it really matter if they come from Ancient Illyrians?
------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 31-May-2008 at 12:42
You need at least 2,000 years of history in the Balkans or else the other mock you and you get an inferiority complex  Albanians have the most Illyrian blood in them than any other modern nation but neither their language nor their traditions have preserved. |
Posted By: EthnicAlbania
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2008 at 21:54
|
Yes "Spartakus" it does matter so you can ask yourself twice when you talk about your neighbours.
Vorian, I assure you that Albania has more than 2,000 years of history in Balkan. Actually it has more history than Greece. Greece has memories, Albania has history!
We did our best to preserve our Illyrian language and tradition and if it wasn' t for our efforts the name Illryrian would have never be spoken again.
And let me congratulate you for the weeding of those two new homosexual couples who got married in the small ilsand of Tilos in Aegean Sea on the 3 July of this year. I am glad to hear news like this because I see that that you still preserve you Hellenic traditions even nowdays.
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2008 at 22:01
|
OOOHH I get it now. You're in that "I am better than you mood." Neither one of them actually said anything bad about Albania so why attack Greece for a "lack of history." Laughable. ------------- |
Posted By: Vorian
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2008 at 23:42
I bet 10$ he will be banned before he reaches 10 posts. Does anyone what to take the bet? |
Posted By: xristar
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 00:57
We'll see Vorian  .I guess i'll split the 10$ with the moderators, and he'll be banned after his 10th post!  ------------- 
Defeat allows no explanation Victory needs none. It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly. |
Posted By: Odin
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 04:30
|
Albanian is a "Satem" language, possibly related to Thracian, Armenian and Dacian and so a more likely connection is with the Thracians or some similar eastern Paleo-Balkan people. Illyrian, IIRC, was a "Centum" language possibly related to the Italic (Latin, etc.) and Celtic languages
------------- "Of the twenty-two civilizations that have appeared in history, nineteen of them collapsed when they reached the moral state the United States is in now." -Arnold J. Toynbee |
Posted By: EthnicAlbania
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 05:56
|
es_bih I see you finally are engaging yourself into discussion, but you are doing it in a wrong way.
Vorian said:
"You need at least 2,000 years of history in the Balkans or else the other mock you and you get an inferiority complex
Albanians have the most Illyrian blood in them than any other modern nation but neither their language nor their traditions have preserved."--To me that is offensive and if you es_bih find it normal i feel sorry for you. I bet 10$ some of the ppl who will read my posts will get angry.
Hey Odin!
Albanian was proven to be an Indo-European language in 1854 by the German http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_linguistics - philologist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Bopp - Franz Bopp . The Albanian language comprises its own branch of the Indo-European language family. Some scholars believe that Albanian derives from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_language - Illyrian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#cite_note-1 - [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#cite_note-2 - [3] while others, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#cite_note-3 - [4] claim that it derives from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacian_language - Daco - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_language - Thracian . (Illyrian and Daco-Thracian, however, may have formed a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprachbund - sprachbund , see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thraco-Illyrian - Thraco-Illyrian .) Establishing longer relations, Albanian is often compared to Balto-Slavic on the one hand and Germanic on the other, both of which share a number of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isogloss - isoglosses with Albanian. Moreover, Albanian has undergone a vowel shift in which stressed, long o has fallen to a, much like in the former and opposite the latter. Likewise, Albanian has taken the old relative jos and innovatively used it exclusively to qualify adjectives, much in the way Balto-Slavic has used this word to provide the definite ending of adjectives. P.S. es_bih please tell me what was that I wrote against greek?
|
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 08:09
So why do I never find an Albanian counterpart to Xenophon, Herodotos and Thukydides no matter how much I look? |
Posted By: Akolouthos
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 12:13
You aren't looking to stay on this forum very long, are you? Re-read -- or, more likely, read -- the Code of Conduct and abide by it or you will be dismissed.
-Akolouthos
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 13:03
|
This belongs in alternative history. And EthnicAlbanian, we are rather unimpressed with your start here. Here is a surprising bit of news lad. People are usually underwhelmed when you shout out your ethnicity, the response to "I am an Albanian, Turk, Greek, French, Pashtun, Punjabi etc" is usually a "yeah? So?" ------------- |
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 21:47
|
@ Sparten (ignorant peasant) Can't you read? You ought to ask yourself twice before asking such question. Remember:
So… Myself? Myself? (ok once more to be sure) Myself? Now I can ask: why do we care? ------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 00:35
You answered your own question in your own previous post.
Demoting another ethnicity's credibility for the sake of your own is rather an offensive act not academic. Demeaning homosexuals as a negative state of being too is offensive and using that demoted state to describe Greeks and Greek culture is even more offensive to both.I hope I cleared up that to you buddy.
Well we have completely independent reserach on the Illyricum province and the Illyrian tribes and the region as a whole around the world. Furthermore, I would argue that a lot of rural traditions that are not newer adaptations are preserved from Illyrian past in the northern Balkans, primarily Yugoslavia.
------------- |
Posted By: Flipper
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 06:11
Many people here know about the history of Illyricum. You're probably just one more member opening a thread about it. Practically, I do believe Albanians have a connection with Illyrians, however, I find the currect language more close to Dacian than Illyrian. Those ofcourse just speculations...You don't have many surviving Illyrians words and most are placenames. The Dacian is not well survived eather but at least we have a dictionary available with a greater number of words than Illyrian and some of those words have a direct connection to Albanian. -------------  
Så nu tar jag fram (k)niven va! |
Posted By: Carpathian Wolf
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 19:06
|
Funny no matter how hard I look beside the German historian in the 1800s no one really makes the connection between Albanians and Illyrians. I read a theory that Albanians are actually from the Caucaus mountains and were brought in as mercenaries by the Arabs via Sicilia, and then when the Romans retook it, brought those Albanians to settle in that area of the Balkans as garrison.
This Illyrian movement was also first started in Croatia in the 1800s as a form of south pan slavism. Illyrian are a branch of Thracian and as a whole i'd say most of the former Yugoslavia has a fairly large Thracian/Dacian/Illyrian sub strat genetic wise.
But for you to come in and say Albania has this and that and Greece is nothing is laughable. Are you one of those people that also believes Alexander, Constantine and Justinian were Albanian?
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 20:55
|
Well that Illyria site of his pretty much bases that Illyrians are Albanians, which of course leaves out the ex-Yu countries that most certainly have that admixture.
I do not believe that they are recent immigrants either though. Albanians are probably descendeants of Illyrians just as are Yugoslavians, etc... However, where he steers wrong is by claiming some type of 'racial' purity, which is not the case. Mixture among the various peoples that have migrated throughout the Balkans most certainly happened. ------------- |
Posted By: Carpathian Wolf
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 21:00
Well i'm actually curious to see any sources that site Albanians. A mean in the 10th century IIRC Arbanoi are named. And you can say you get Albanian from Arbanoi (SP?) But then you run into the issue that Albanians don't use that name for themselves. They use Sqiptare (SP?) or something of that sort.
|
Posted By: Slayertplsko
Date Posted: 11-Jul-2008 at 16:14
|
Well I've always been a bit sceptic about the name argument. Names of the nation can possibly be changed, just like Latini (the tribe which united Italic peoples) changed their name to Romani in the course of time. Such changes in the names of nations are quite common, so we need to know whenceforth 'Sqiptare' has been used and what name they'd used before. |