Unfortunately, I'd have to go with "terrorism" in this day and age.

Don't get me wrong--I realize that the Muslim extremist groups are no more representative of Islam as a whole than Bible-thumping Fundamentalists are of Christianity, but the current state of world affairs has given Islam a bad name in the West.

Despite my Christian faith (which is extremely important to me, for without God I am nothing), I must confess to feeling a certain sort of deep sorrow, because the 3 great monotheistic religions--Judaism, Chrisitanity, & Islam--are collectively responsible for more human misery than any other religious creeds I can personally think of.  I honestly do not feel that that is what the founders of these faiths intended, but it has happened nonetheless. 

A real shame, actually.

I'd put money that 9/10 Americans would say terrorism, sadly that's because of their media and politicians.

For Europeans I guess it's more oppression of women, which is a repeated theme on tv.

Negative this is too, but I do think there's a bit more legitimacy to it.

The Muslim say as a greeting "Assalamu-Allaikum" (peace be upon you).

It says in the Holy Quran " If you take a life it is as if you have taken the life of the whole world and if you save a life the it is as if you have saved the life of the whole world"

Islam does not mean terror,

Islam is for PEACE for ALL of Gods creations.

Peace be upon you

 God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes.  God loves just dealers.  (Quran, 60:8)

The Prophet Muhammad  used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children, ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote1" name=bf1>1} and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote2" name=bf2>2}   And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote3" name=bf3>3}

Also, the Prophet Muhammad  has forbidden punishment with fire. ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote4" name=bf4>4}

He once listed murder as the second of the major sins, ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote5" name=bf5>5} and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed. ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote6" name=bf6>6} } ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote7" name=bf7>7}

Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them.  Once the Prophet Muhammad  said: {A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died.  On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote8" name=bf8>8}

He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action.  The Prophet  was asked, �Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?�  He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote9" name=bf9>9}

Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible.  The Prophet Muhammad  said: {When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way.  One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-11.htm#footnote10" name=bf10>10}

In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims.  Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims.  If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam.

-------------

The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred, whether a person is Muslim or not.  Islam also protects honor.  So, in Islam, insulting others or making fun of them is not allowed.  The Prophet Muhammad  said: {Truly your blood, your property, and your honor are inviolable.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote1" name=bf1>1}

Racism is not allowed in Islam, for the Quran speaks of human equality in the following terms:

 O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female and have made you into nations and tribes for you to know one another.  Truly, the noblest of you with God is the most pious. ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote2" name=bf2>2}   Truly, God is All-Knowing, All-Aware.  (Quran, 49:13)

Islam rejects certain individuals or nations being favored because of their wealth, power, or race.  God created human beings as equals who are to be distinguished from each other only on the basis of their faith and piety.  The Prophet Muhammad  said: {O people!  Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one.  An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white tinged with red) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote3" name=bf3>3} except in piety.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote4" name=bf4>4}

One of the major problems facing mankind today is racism.  The developed world can send a man to the moon but cannot stop man from hating and fighting his fellow man.  Ever since the days of the Prophet Muhammad , Islam has provided a vivid example of how racism can be ended.  The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah shows the real Islamic brotherhood of all races and nations, when about two million Muslims from all over the world come to Makkah to perform the pilgrimage.

Islam is a religion of justice.  God has said:

 Truly God commands you to give back trusts to those to whom they are due, and when you judge between people, to judge with justice....  (Quran, 4:58)

And He has said:

 ...And act justly.  Truly, God loves those who are just.  (Quran, 49:9)

We should even be just with those who we hate, as God has said:

 ...And let not the hatred of others make you avoid justice.  Be just: that is nearer to piety....  (Quran, 5:8)

The Prophet Muhammad  said: {People, beware of injustice, ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote5" name=bf5>5} for injustice shall be darkness on the Day of Judgment.} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote6" name=bf6>6}

And those who have not gotten their rights (i.e. what they have a just claim to) in this life will receive them on the Day of Judgment, as the Prophet  said: {On the Day of Judgment, rights will be given to those to whom they are due (and wrongs will be redressed)...} ^{http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-12.htm#footnote7" name=bf7>7}

For more info please visit http://www.islam-guide.com - www.islam-guide.com

or contact me. Thank You, Peace to all

-------------

About women, what about these ones:

"And all married women are forbidden unto you except those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond thosementioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery."(Quran: Al Nisa: 4 - 24)
   
"They ask Thee concerning Women's courses. Say to them: 'They are a Hurt and a Pollution: So keep away from women in their courses and do not approach them until they are clean.' But when they are purified, Yee may approach them in any manner, time or place. Ordained for you by Allah, for Allah loves those who turn to him constantly and he loves those who keep themselves Pure and Clean." (Quran: Al Baqarah: 2 - 222)

"Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will." (Quran: Al Baqarah: 2 - 223)

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence, what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, & beat them." (Quran: Al Nisa 4 - 34)

"O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her. Specially for you, not for the believers; we know what we have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (Quran: Al Ahzab: 33 - 50)

"As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, confine them to the houses until death take them." (Quran: Al Nisa: 4 - 15)

The verses above: regard keeping from sex while a women is menstruating - "womens courses"

Respect women.

Stages of coping with transgresive women. Is it "beat" them or "leave" them?

Obviously, your intentions to present such verses in questionable light need further research on your part.

Sorry to say this but when I hear Islam I think of terrorism and especially 9/11.

Originally posted by eaglecap

This creature is shocking. This is no spider it Science Fiction.

Lets hear what you think of Islam S3oodi?

I think that the Arabs have left behind a solid foundation for the generations ahead. But FYI Umar (Rathia Allaho Anho) ordered the library of Alexandria burnt to the ground. The Arabs after Islam were great people. But they never learned to form a government and an impire until they moved to Baghdad and adobted many of the persian culture. There they really contributed to humanity

Just curiosity, why noone remember christianity as serbs and their genocide?

It looks like you are not looking Islam neutral, so you prefer to see what is bad in Islam. But you dont look christianity like this way.

you're full of hate man. You need to relax

I think islam i peace religion 

the terrorist is a temprary situation they aren't belong to islam only in the face they are unbeliver  they killed people in iraq without any reason they are killers almost of iraqi people hte them the root of islamic terror came from wahhabist from saudi arabia i am not mean saudian people i mean the follower of mohammed abid alwahhab the terror exist in other places like serbia in everywhere you see good people and bad people any time and any where.

in iraq we are in fighting now with terror now nd we must win i belive   we' ll win and god with us.

real muslims don't hate any other religion we respect all heaven religion we like all prophet and belive in them like abraham,mosses.jessus and all the prophets so before take your judgment on islam think about muslim as humanbeing like you.         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;        

I think about Arabs whenever I hear or read about Islam. I also think about a certain Arabic cultural hegemony (why couldn't the muslims of Syria speak Aramaic? Why won't the Egyptians speak Egyptian? And what about the Berbers?). The fact that muslims say that the fact that God Almighty spoke in Arab to Mohammed means that Arab is a holy language irks me a bit.

Well, the Serbs are Serbs, and that whole balkans thing - even though religion did play a part - was mostly ethnic. BTW, weren't there islamic volunteers in Bosnia doing all sorts of crap as well?

Oh please would you cut this.

  When I hear Islam I hear oppression.

Why I tell you WHY MUSLIM. Jesus never invaded no country, Jesus never killed anyone, Jesus never preached violence, it is just not in the  doctrine. are you getting that, there is no violence whatsoever in Jesus doctrine, whereas Islam is founded on invasion. And I'm an atheist here. whatever a christian does it is not because of christianism but because of the christian, the same cannot be said about Islam. Do you understandddddddddd.

[/QUOTE]

Why I tell you WHY MUSLIM. Jesus never invaded no fvcking country, Jesus never killed anyone, Jesus never preached violence, it is just not in the fvcking doctrine. are you getting that, there is no violence whatsoever in Jesus doctrine, whereas Islam is founded on invasion. And I'm an atheist here. whatever a christian does it is not because of christianism but because of the christian, the same cannot be said about Islam. Do you understandddddddddd.

Actually, Richard XIII, that's what Quetzalcoatl said. What a christian does is not because christianity told him to do so, but because he chose to do so. And people can decide wrongly.

Inquisition, witch-hunts, crusades, persecutions, and so on were mistakes of people, not of the christian doctrine. Christ said just "Love eachother". Nothing else. All the rest was completed by the churches here and there and all those who seeked to rule by keeping people in dark, hence the dark ages too, imho.

And some muslims today chose to be terrorists and kill other people, actually in lace>lace>Iraqlace>lace> most of the killed people are Iraqi not Christians. Jesus was some kind of saint for muslims. Maybe the problem is religious in a subtle way not like Quetzalcoatl assertion muslim=killer, why in lace>Romanialace> arabs and turks are absolutely normal people, I have friends from them and no one agree terrorism. Maybe the Islam must be modernized.>>

This is totally different story. In my opinion again, most of the religions need to be modernised, because they contain anachronistic elements which render them either unpopular or totalitarian. Orthodox christianity needs a wholesale refurbishment, as far as I am concerned, and perhaps Islam too, but I will not elaborate too much on Islam, as I am neither an expert or a Muslim, and I actually declare that I am quite ignorant of the teachings of the Quran and I will not even attempt to suggest what changes might be of either use or need, if any.

(edited for spelling mistakes)

I never said muslim = killer. I said christianism preached no violence whatsoever but Islam was founded on violence. A muslim has freewill as far as I know.

I'm not an expert too and I agree that Orthodox christianity need to be modernized, Catholic christianity recognize evolution, Orthodox not, at least in lace>Romanialace> there is a powerful ecumenical movement contucted by actual Patriarch.  >>

I think of "Submission". I think not of free will, au contraire. I think of religious oppression, i think of controlled masses, i think of human herds, doing what "the book says" without bothering to consider their options.

To make my point of view clear, i am an atheist. I think exactly the same things as stated above about Christianity too. And all the other religions. So don't call me an Islam-hater or anything

People of the world, relax.

Don't just read the books, meet the people.

Quetzalcoatl

Arent Davud(David) and Suleyman is also Prophet of Christianity?

werent they fight? Werent they killed people also?

Rulers and Prophet are two different thing. If I dont know wrong, Jesus is never a ruler. He is just prophet of his people.

I dont think Islam also believe or honor using force. Infact He dont, killing someone is called killing all Humanity.

On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
(Koran, Surah 5, Ayat 32)

Reality is that when west like to thinks muslims as a terrorist,

They dont remember what they did.

They were not better than Muslims.

But when russia killing people, noone tell Christians do this, or when Serbs killing people again noone say christians do this.

Muslims are not sinless but christians are not better than muslims too.

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html - http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

Read this too. You can learn something about christianity. They are not as lover as You said.

And People Pls dont make this a religion war. Point is  no Double standards pls.

Muratza, you study well and you make good points.

Just one little correction: Davud and Suleyman were not Christian prophets, but Jewish ones. Christianity has its roots in Jewish religion, but the Christians claim that Christ came to show the true path because the Jews had forgotten it. Some of them followed and became Christians, some didn't and remained Jews.

And if you notice, a major difference, and please anyone correct me if I am wrong, is that in Jewish religion "an eye for an eye" is accepteble, whereas in Christian religion "when they slap you on one cheek, give the other cheek too".

Anyway, just to make things clearer.

yea they are considered jewish prophets but do christans consider them as prophets?

if yes then they are Prophets in christianity too.

and yes jesus is considered prophet by muslims. also his mother maria is called mariam in Arabic and there is chapter called mariam in the Quran.

they both are respected so as the rest of the prophets.

 No they aren't they belong to the ancient testament, they are jewish prophets.  Christianity starts with the new testament. The ancient testament is only here as background to understand the event and phophecies of the new testament. But the ancient testament and it's prophets belong to Judaism not christianism. Christianism deals only with Jesus teaching as written by his apostles.

Don't be a naive fool, open a history for god sake, the arabs invaded and slaughtered large number of people to impose their religion. At their head was the founder of the religion, this man has killed many men. Have you seen Jesus or Buddha at the head of an army invading other people, they'll rather suffer  humiliation than use violence.

 As for the crusade get this right, the crusaders  were a violent medieval army thinking they were defending christianity when in reality they are doing what is repulsive to the doctrine. This was because of ignorance of the individuals. Franks were more like warriors, crusade was simply an excuse to get rid of muslim.

 If the founder couldn't practice what he preached then what does that make of him. He was the leader of an army, the deaths of every man his army caused is upon his hands. Just like every deaths in Iraq is upon Bush  hands.

David is not a prophet he is a king in Jewish mythology (or history depending on your point of view) Jewish messiah is going to be direct descendant from David and Jesus is directly traced back to king David per some beliefs

Mary/Maria and Mariam are not the same person Mary is mother of Jesus and Mariam is sister of Moses. For some reason in Quran the name Mariam is used to refer to Mary

Quetzalcoatl

Can you show me a muslim minority who lived 500 year under christian countries?

or 1000 year?

Can you tell me when Christians begin to love each other?(not other people)

Can you tell me what is the difference between Two A-bomb And what Usame did? How many militaric target lived at that cities?

Can you tell me, how all america becomed christian? Can you tell me how many people lives at america, who believe his ancient religion?

If I dont remember there are still some persians who believe his ancient religion.

Can you tell where did you learn life of jesus? and from whom?

Than accuse Islam for using force.

By the way,

and I know all christians are not murderer, all of them are not rapist, they are not sexual maniacs.I know All christians are not killer of innocent. I know there are other christians who dont support what they did.

Jalisco Lancer

I am not mixing any thing, I am try to show, If someone accuse Islam because of Usame, Someone can accuse christianity for a lot things too.

But People mostly dont understand this, and when they heard Islam they remember Terorism, I am sure noone of them remember crusaders, A-Bomb or serbs or what they did in America, when they heard Christianity.

Because They choose to remember what they want to prefer.

Jalisco Lancer

If I am not wrong,even they were christians in Saudi Arabia(At Ottoman times)

after 1400 year, Christianity lived there. I am sure noone can live 1400 year under the Islamic sword. Do they?

 LIsten mate you got to read what I've wrote again. I'm not defending the acts of christians, christians can be a wicked and evil bunch. What I'm talking here is the foundation of both religions. Christianism when it was founded was a totally peaceful religion that oppose all form of violence. islam was founded by Muhamad, the man was himself a killer( this is obvious) and many of his doctrines are violent (some aren;t obviously). Now as I said a muslim has freewill, he can choose to follow islam word for word causing great massacres in the process or he can be compassionate trying to interpret it another way, then benefitting the people they've conquered. But this part is irrelevent, I'm talking about the doctrines here. This is simple, I'm not talking about the people who embrace the doctrines and how they themselves interpret the doctrine in question, I'm talking about the orignal doctrines and the founders. Get this right, don't try to answer me unless you understand that.

Quran has many contradictions. Depending on which page you read you can be instructed to be a nice person or be a terrorist, on top of that Quran is not straight text and can be interpreted differently to a large degree. Islam has a lot of traditions that have come from the traditions of nomads livings in one the harshest environment on the planet (arabian desert) and that harshness is reflected in the their traditions. Christianity came from northern middle eastern who lived a more privilege and gentle life and some of that is reflected in Christianity.

Example of A bomb and Serbia are irrelevant. There may have been Christians that did things that are not OK in your book, but A bomb was not used to expand or defend Christianity. If you are looking for examples of event when a bad things were done in the name Christianity there are better examples, but that has nothing to do with character of Islam being good or bad, or followers of Islam having reputation for doing good thing or bad

Miller

Do you think 9/11 made for the name of Religion? They are using It. If they realy care Religion, There are other place Muslim need them. For exp Russia, India. But They choose USA, because of Israel.

They attacked Turkey too. A j�had cannot be made against Muslims.

Christianity came from northern middle eastern who lived a more privilege and gentle life and some of that is reflected in Christianity.

Miller When Christianity learned love is their main part?

Because There were Sufist at 1000-1100 when christians killing each other.

Quetzalcoatl

Muhammed is killer because he fight against other? Did you realy read Islam history? Do you know when Islamic calendar begin?

It begin with the muslims hegira from Mekke. They were sufferer at first.

He is also a ruler. I told this before and you just dont care.

He didnt die like Jesus.  And I dont understand why he should just let his people die?

Again who teach you life of jesus?

What is orjinal doctrines of christianity? where did you learn them?

And Who told you doctrines of Islam is to use force?

They used for because of their survival. Not to  spread Islam. There were christians at the Suidi Arabia. I am sure It is enough to show, Their aim is not to spread Islam by force. If their aim is this, There would be no christian atfer 1400 year. Even jihat itself should be defensive. Use force should be defensive.

So Muslims who make jihat aggresive didnt follow rules of islam.

Quran has many contradictions. Depending on which page you read you can be instructed to be a nice person or be a terrorist, on top of that Quran is not straight text and can be interpreted differently to a large degree. Islam has a lot of traditions that have come from the traditions of nomads livings in one the harshest environment on the planet (arabian desert) and that harshness is reflected in the their traditions. Christianity came from northern middle eastern who lived a more privilege and gentle life and some of that is reflected in Christianity.

Yes you are right Quran has many contradiction, Because You should choose acording to Situation. There is not one true in all situation.

And Infact, If we accept people accepted Islam, and did what Quran told him, Noone can say Islam is a harsh religion.

Isnt It is weird? When Christians become more religious, They become more harsh? Now we have secular christian countries and They were better.

A little contradiction? If doctorine of christians are just love, I am sure more religious christians should be more gentle.

from what i read on a poll on a muslim website some time ago post 9/11.(from that which stuck in the head)

the common opinion of the western governments in muslim lands is 80% see them as oppressors and hypocrites.

60% think of people of western nations as being reasonable.(excluding america).

85% thinks of americans as being arrogant and selfish.

lol those smoking pipes are not Arabic, turkish i guess.

doesnt mean they are Arabic, you can buy them in melbourne australia too.

Smoked in India too.

Media has a tremendous role in such a bias. Just to bring one famous instance is the huge coverage of hijacking the Italian cruise ship Archille Lauro by a Palestinian terrorist group that killed the American Jew Leon Klinghoffer. Tons of articles, calls of retaliation, news coverage. However, when Alex Odeh, a director in the West Coast of US for the Arab Anti-Discreminatory League called the act a terrorist act but defended the PLO for not involving in it, he was assassinated at his office by a bomb placed by the Jewish Defense Leauge (according the FBI investigation). While Leon killing got him to be an American hero and news never stopped talking about it for weeks, Alex Odeh got almost no coverage despite it happened in the same week.

Definitely Western Media plays the biggest role in damaging Islam overall image way way earlier to Bin Ladin (which is another story too).

I have to say the image of Islam too is slowly recovering  by internal efforts of Muslims in Western countries and also famous converts whose roles play a huge impact on the public media. To note as an example, the conversion of pop-star Cat Stevens at the height of his career to a Muslim definitely encouraged many many young Britons to invest in learning more about Islam. Muhammed Ali in the US along with Gen. Charles William Buchanan Hamilton of the Royal Navy and the nephew of former US President James Buchanan. In Germany, Dr.Wilfred Hofmann Former German Ambassador & Director of Information NATO. In Italy, no doubt is Mario Scialoja, the former Italian ambassador to Saudi Arabia, who is also now the head of Italy's Muslim League.
So, despite the damaged picture in general, I can say there is a lot of optimism toward an increasing interest toward Islam in Western societies that can balance the old Media notion of Islam.

to link Islam with terrorism is truly bias perception...

cant blame the public coz with the mass media propaganda and publicity... the thing looks so right...

Yeah it is beautiful. However, you linked your example of Saudi Arabia to Islam directly based on the notion that it is practiced as an "Islamic Law" there. Well that is no difference than for instance naming Christianity for what The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) of Uganda does in the name of Christianity. Not only that they are they are known to be the number one violent group in terms of their victims number, but they have practiced in the name of religion various horrible atrocities. I quote this from the article of "Deliver Us from the Kony" published by http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/001/18.30.html - Christianity Today.com

"At St. Joseph's Hospital in Kitgum, I listened as relatives of four adult LRA victims recounted recent assaults. Many surviving victims cannot speak for themselves, because their lips have been sliced off. With their mouths reduced to gaping holes, they gazed at me with what combat veterans call the thousand-yard stare"

As you see, I don't find this in a major US or European newspaper or TV channel. What happens if another hostage got slaughtered in Iraq? The break news of the whole week.

What the LRA does is not of Christianity and understood to be so, but such a distintincion in defining the validity of a religious act is not applied to the Muslims by the Westerns scholars. Most of those converts I mentioned did not convert based on reading CNN news report but pesonal struggle to find out real truth by themselves. Some of them took them tens of years to decide.

People don't see a pattern though, vietnam had no muslims, and yet they were pushed so far to blow themselves up too.

A better example is te japanese during WW2, not only kamikaze fighters, but banzai suicide bombers.

• At the death of their respective prophets, Christianity was and underground cult, Islam a warring theocracy.
• Christianity does not have in its holy book (Gospels) a zillion precepts about daily life, Islam does.
  

Maju, I don't believe there is an example of Islam per se. There is no kingdom of god on this earth and this is should be well known to most Muslims (at least Sunnis). Rather, we have a spectrum where a country, nation, group can be placed on. That spectrum decides how  much do you follow Islam and how much you don't, and so you are to be considered more islamic or not, and not an Islamic or not. For example, Saudi Arabia practice more Islamic laws than Tunisia, however Saudi Arabia does not practice Islamic concepts of equality sometimes including not seperating the judicial system from the state, neither it does with the Royal family expidentures and the corruptions. So it is more Islamic on one side but less Islamic on the other side.

Now going back to your question, Talibans, Iran, Saudi Arabia...etc cannot be examples of an Islamic state rather than how much they follow the Islamic teachings in all aspects and not selectively.

The LRA has a religious propoganda, not very different from Taliban. If we ought to consider Taliban an Islamic terrorist group, we should consider then the LRA a Christian terrorist group to avoid double-standing. If the LRA received assistance from the Sudanese government earlier, Osama Bin Laden and much of Taliban received assistant from the USA too.

Regarding Sudan support to LRA, I will quote the following from the report of the http://www.iss.co.za/AF/profiles/Uganda/SecInfo.html - Institute for Security Studies :

"The LRA is based in southern Sudan and operates in northern Uganda. In January 2002 Pres. Museveni and Sudanese President Umar Haan al-Bashir pledged to work towards �peace and security� in the region and to cease military support to rebel groups. In 1995 the two countries severed diplomatic relations with Uganda has accusing Sudan of supporting the LRA, and Sudan has claiming that Uganda was assisting the rebel Sudan People�s Liberation Army (SPLA)."

So it is clearly a political move as much as the United States did earlier in supporting Taliban, and till now, in supporting the Saudi Royal family. Politics is different issue to religion.

I don't recall any law that is targetting women only and not both sexes. Do you mean how some Muslims treat their women?

I can tell you that a lot of Muslim men are not following the examples they have in their religion in respecting and equal treatment of their wives and sisters. However, a lot of Christian are also not following the Christian teachings in treating their women too, except that Christian teaching of women is quiet different than what you expect.

'A women should learn in quietness and in full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.' (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

No wonder they were discussing in the 1000's AD if women are evil spirits in human bodies or full human!

While childbearing has beeen discussed by many Christian theologians as a punishment to Eve and all women in decieving Adam (men), the Prophet Muhammed tells a guy asking who are the most deserving person of my care and obidience, and he tells him "Your mother", he askes "then whom?", and he get the same answer second and a thrid time too. Finally "your father" comes in the fourth time. 3-1 for mothers.

So Maju, you deciding that you can find horrific accounts of ordering the mistreating of women in Quran but at the same time you cannot find that in the Bible is untrue simply.

No I mean stoning of women for supposed adultery which is in most case just rape. I mean Amina Lawal, I mean the burka, I mean women not being able to drive in Saudi Arabia. Those are legal precepts under several "sharias".

That's not a Gospel, it's not "the word of God" but just that of Paul, the man who perverted the Christian doctrine - in opinion of so many.

No wonder they were discussing in the 1000's AD if women are evil spirits in human bodies or full human! While childbearing has beeen discussed by many Christian theologians as a punishment to Eve and all women in decieving Adam (men), the Prophet Muhammed tells a guy asking who are the most deserving person of my care and obidience, and he tells him "Your mother", he askes "then whom?", and he get the same answer second and a thrid time too. Finally "your father" comes in the fourth time. 3-1 for mothers. So Maju, you deciding that you can find horrific accounts of ordering the mistreating of women in Quran but at the same time you cannot find that in the Bible is untrue simply.

Thank you Mira for your short but highly-benificial post.

Originally posted by Maju No I mean stoning of women for supposed adultery which is in most case just rape. I mean Amina Lawal, I mean the burka, I mean women not being able to drive in Saudi Arabia. Those are legal precepts under several "sharias".

Ok, I was expecting you to use this example, that is why I said my statement "do you mean a law that targets both sexes?"  Though stonning to death for adultery is disputed between Muslims and we have talked about it at AE three times at least (go back to old posts for details),  Also, those states that practice this law on all citizens do practice it on proven cases and not on rape cases as you claimed. You cannot use this example to point out Women oppression because simply those states that practice such a punishment have the verdict of law on both sexes. Both married sexes who commit adultery are expected to receive the same punishment. So this example does not work in supporting your argument.

Women not being able to drive in Saudi Arabia is not part of Shariah and those scholars who decided such a decision will not be able to point one statement in the Quran or the Hadith is support of their decision. Rather they used the notion that if women were to drive, they will be out driving, and if they were out driving, they might be attacked, raped..etc They call this Qiyas and Jame' or measurement and consensus where laws can be passed by measuring or having a consensus. So obviously it is not a scripture order at all and definitely not in the Quran as you claimed.

As you see it is a twisted logic and interpretation and not surprisingly only Saudi Arabia of the whole Muslim world practice this. I expect such a law to be nolified and cancelled by no more than 20 years from now.

and I hate to look like an attacker on Christianity, but Im just following the flow of your argument. Let us clean the Gospel out of all the indirect statement of Jesus Peace Be Upon Him and leaves his "direct quote". What will you get? 10 pages Gospel maybe? Also since you are raised in a Christian society, I assume automatically that you already know that this Paul you call his quotes hateful and dogmatic, is considered generally the real founder of Christianity. You calling Paul words not God word, means they are man words simply Maju, thus destroying the whole concept of the holy spirit revelation. So if Paul words are not God word, then this also should apply to all books including Matthew, Luke, John, Mark...etc

Islam oppsessed with commandments and rituals? Do you mean Sunnahs? When you are advised how to eat, how to dress, what to say, these are recommendations and not obligations called "Sunnahs". If you think that Islam is oppsessed with rituals, what is wrong with this anyhow? Does anyone here object to Bhuddist monks who practice rituals 24 hours a day? eating only one meal a day? chanting all day long?

So praying 5 times a day where each prayer takes you 10 minutes, so a total of 50 minutes in your whole day is too much? Let us double it to an hour and 40 minutes a day in total. Does this bother anyone here? I prefer spending this time in spritual solitude or reflections rather than setting and watching TV with a beer in my hand.

When I hear Islam, I think of God or Allah (subhanahu wa ta'la), the prophets and their lives, the mosques, the millions and millions of believing men and women, simplicity in pratice and belief, faith, morals, equality and spiritual reward.

As for those who are so quick in accusing Muslims, Islam, Muhammad or the Qur'an, I ask you, what do you think when you hear Israel? or Vatican? or USA? or KKK? or Zionism? or Srebenica?

I tell you what I think, I think of bloodshed, intolerance, racism, hypocrisy, money and hatred.

        "As light divides itself from darkness, so does woman possess the gift to divide in man good intent from the thought of evil. Your best thoughts must belong to woman. Gather from them your moral strength, which you must possess to sustain your near ones. Do not humiliate her, for therein you will humiliate yourselves. And all which you will do to mother, to wife, to widow or to another woman in sorrow-that shall you also do for the Spirit."

http://www.wolflodge.org/sananda/lost-years-of-jesus.htm - http://www.wolflodge.org/sananda/lost-years-of-jesus.htm

Havent read his response, but women in Saudi Arabia wear face covers generally, which reduces their peripheral vision. To be honest, i'd have second thoughts about letting them drive, since peripheral vision is important for driving. Also from what I know, it's only Saudi that stop women from driving.

As a Muslim the first thing that comes in my mind is faith and beauty.  I think the question and answers listed are better asked to non-Muslims.

Hmm...muslims trying to quote the Bible! AAHHH! Whats next!

-No but on a serious note you have used this scripture way out of context. In the book of Timothy Paul is writing the young believer(it states "genuine child in the faith") Timothy on ways that he should be familiar with when inside the congregation:

1 Timothy 3:14-15

I am writing you these things, though I am hoping to come to you shortly, but in case I am delayed, that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in God's household, which is the congregation of [the] living God, a pillar and support of the truth.

-A couple of other verses that were right before the verses you posted:

1 Timothy 2:8-10

Therefore I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hand, apart from wrath and debates. Likewise I desire the women to adorn themselves in well arranged dress, with modesty and soundness fo mind, not with styles of hairbraiding and gold or pearls or very expensive garb, but in the way that befits women professing to reverence  God, namely, through good works.

-So you see Paul is explaining in the following text(the one you have quoted) that women should not be teachers of the congregation and should thus just learn in silence(meaning not to profess or teach). Something that I would agree with at the time seeing as how there were no female teachers of any religion at that time, at least to my knowledge. Not in any way is Paul reffering to the stoning of women is he? Something that is in Islamic doctrine. Also in the Bible it refers to such things as men being the head of the household. I also too believe that the man should be at the head of the household as well as at the head of the congregation. The Bible does not teach superiority over women, but it does definately state the differences in their makeup and their general character and leadership skills. Both sexes are seen as equal and essential, they just play different roles. 

Why Islam implies only arabs and sand and domed architecture in your brains?

How about Turks???

Turks are not living in desert,we dont wear burka or turban,and we dont have domed architecture neither....It seems that you are all orientalist prejudicers!

Cordoba, Baghdad in Abbasid Period, Jerusalam of Calilphate Era...

Algebra? Do you know it is an Arabic word?

Norweigan mate, have you Viking guys invented any kinda science like Arabs invented Maths?

The sound of Azaan.I don't like people who use loudspeakers in Mosques.

Well today, and from past history, i would say first thing that comes to mind is: Approach with caution.

The war was not a war of christianity. It was a war between the 2 peoples. This "war" on the USA is a islamic jihad on the west. So they are different.