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Septimius Severus - "African Emperor of Rome"

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mediterranean and Europe
Forum Discription: Greece, Macedon, Rome and other cultures such as Celtic and Germanic tribes
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2262
Printed Date: 28-Mar-2024 at 13:01
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Topic: Septimius Severus - "African Emperor of Rome"
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Subject: Septimius Severus - "African Emperor of Rome"
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 19:44
It is sometimes said that Septimius Severus was the first "Black Emperor" of Rome. If this was true, then he would be the most powerful African of his time. What do you think of his origins?


Wood painting showing Septimius Severus, his wife, and two sons (one of which was wiped off the painting when the other took power).



Replies:
Posted By: Mangudai
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 05:48

Well the coins and busts show him as a caucasian

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/romanciv/Romancivimages23/severus.jpg - http://www.utexas.edu/courses/romanciv/Romancivimages23/seve rus.jpg

http://www.bingo-ev.de/~ks451/antike/bilder/septsev1.jpg - http://www.bingo-ev.de/~ks451/antike/bilder/septsev1.jpg



Posted By: Laelius
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 12:14
well there's plenty of people who are called African American who have European features despite there dark skin.  As for the bust well I've seen one of Scipio Africanus done in black marble, does that mean he was black?


Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 14:09
what exactly are the sources claiming him as black? just ebcause he originated from Africa doesn't mean he was black, there were Romans living everyhwere in the empire, including Africa.

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Posted By: Qnzkid711
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 14:12
http://WWW.roman-emperors.org/sepsev.htm

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"Europe and Asia are finally mine. Woe to Chritendom. She has lost her sword and shield."
Ottoman Sultan after hearing of the death of Skenderbeg.


Posted By: Lannes
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 16:34

There has been much debate on this issue.  Though to me, he appears to have distinctly caucasian facial features....

 



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τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;


Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 22:33
Coins and busts don't reflect actual skin color because the color of the material was not selected based upon the actual skin color. One of the few graphical evidence is that wood carving, which shows that his skin color was darker than his wife and sons'. I think the two main possibilities are Berber and Phoenician.


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Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 13:57
is this wood carving contemporary?

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Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 14:09
Did you know that the Egyptian pharao Sesostris conquered all of Europe and settled it with Africans? And that the Colchians and Thracians were all black. Yes indeedy

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Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas


Posted By: Qnzkid711
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 21:09
Sesostris is a mythical creation of Egypt to sastify their pride after they met with conquerers like the Persians and Assyrians. They basically wanted to be the big boy of the group.       



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"Europe and Asia are finally mine. Woe to Chritendom. She has lost her sword and shield."
Ottoman Sultan after hearing of the death of Skenderbeg.


Posted By: Berosus
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 06:40
I heard that Severus was an ethnic Carthaginian, meaning he was more Phoenician than anything else.  His sister didn't speak Latin very well, so the family continued to use Punic most of the time when talking among themselves, even after he became emperor.  It's a good thing Cato ("Delenda Carthago est!") never saw this!

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Nothing truly great is achieved through moderation.--Prof. M.A.R. Barker


Posted By: Selena
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 14:57


Septimius Severus was of African origin.  History is clear on the fact that his family was of North African origin, with some Punic admixture.

At the time, North Africans, Libyans (as he was), were Berbers: that is to say, that they were neither "Caucasians" (Europeans)  nor "Negroids." (Sub-Saharan groups of Africa.)

Berbers are  of a "Mechtoid" type, unique to North Africa. Septimius Severus, by his features and body type was clearly a light-skinned  North African Berber of the mechtoid type.




Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 16:24
Oh no. I was wondering when this topic would be rediscovered by the afro centrist crowd. He was not black!
 
 


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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2007 at 20:10
Originally posted by Laelius

well there's plenty of people who are called African American who have European features despite there dark skin. 
 
That's because Mulattoes, Quadroons and Octoroons in the U.S. call themselves Black, forgetting they are MOSTLY European
 
Originally posted by Laelius

As for the bust well I've seen one of Scipio Africanus done in black marble, does that mean he was black?
 
LOLLOLLOL


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Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 00:24
Originally posted by Lannes

There has been much debate on this issue.  Though to me, he appears to have distinctly caucasian facial features....

 

 
Just becuase a person may appear to have "distinct features", doesnt mean that the person is caucasian, black, or any other race for that matter. No single race that has EVER existed on Earth, has a "distinct" "look".


Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 05:16
Originally posted by Laelius

well there's plenty of people who are called African American who have European features despite there dark skin.  As for the bust well I've seen one of Scipio Africanus done in black marble, does that mean he was black?
 
 
Good point Thumbs%20Up


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 05:52

He is my favourite emperor BTW. The first really imperial one.



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Posted By: Dolphin
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 05:57
Aborigines have a distinct look...

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Posted By: Rakasnumberone
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 19:58
Ots not that they choose to forget, its that according to the law as stated by the govenment, it doesn't matter. And as recently as 45yrs ago in many places in the South, they could have been killed if the stated that fact publicly.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Aug-2007 at 21:11
Yes, Septimus Severus, Cleopatra, Gengis Khan, Jesus, Moctezuma, Plato, Beethoven, Eric the Red, Sidartha and Elvis they were all Black Africans.
 
Debate is over Clown


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Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 01:40
Originally posted by Dolphin

Aborigines have a distinct look...
 
lol.


Posted By: jdalton
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 04:52
Originally posted by Dolphin

Aborigines have a distinct look...

Tell that to the Papua New Guineans.


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http://www.jonathondalton.com/mycomics.html - Lords of Death and Life (a Mesoamerican webcomic)


Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2007 at 13:13
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Laelius

well there's plenty of people who are called African American who have European features despite there dark skin. 
 
That's because Mulattoes, Quadroons and Octoroons in the U.S. call themselves Black, forgetting they are MOSTLY European
 
Originally posted by Laelius

As for the bust well I've seen one of Scipio Africanus done in black marble, does that mean he was black?
 
LOLLOLLOL
 
Even though you are making a point try not to be too amusing. Three emoticons border on mocking.


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Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 16:48
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Severan_dynasty_-_tondo.jpg

This is the wood carving which has been mentioned earlier on in this thread, it certainly shows Severus to have dark skin, very much darker compared to his wife and also his young son Caracalla, as you can see his other son Geta has been erased from the carving, most likely on the orders of Caracalla.

The busts really don't reveal anything about race, the fact they are mostly white is irrelevant really.


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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Sep-2007 at 17:24
he was not a nodic thats for sure. The thing is even if he was dark skinned it dose not mean anything. Mediterrainian's and Mid Easterners like Severus have a wide variety of skin tones.

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Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 07:01
...Yet another race-inspired post. What does it matter if he was Black? Afrocentrism seems to be in the air...

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Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 05-Sep-2007 at 17:19
Originally posted by Aster Thrax Eupator

...Yet another race-inspired post. What does it matter if he was Black? Afrocentrism seems to be in the air...
 
I dont understand your objection to this topic.
 
Hardly the most important topic in the world, but I don't see anything wrong in discussing it.


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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.


Posted By: Romanus Maximus
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 11:09

Pinquin, the Brtish rock band Yes, are definately not African.

Get your facts right.
 
Clap


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2007 at 21:14
Originally posted by Romanus Maximus

 
Pinquin, the Brtish rock band Yes, are definately not African.
Get your facts right.
 
Clap
 
British rock bands? It depends of which one. Led Zeppelin sounds not human to me LOLLOL, perhaps from the time of the Neardenthal and Rollings Stones never learn to play. However, I would agree on Pink Floyd's music.
 
Anyways, if you say bagpipe scotish bands I would say I pass... that's the more enervating sound I have never heared Big%20smile



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