During the late 14th cent. a tragedy bagan when the ottoman outnumberous armies were invading European soil. They eventually occoupied Serbian, Byzintine, Bulgarian, Bosnian, Albanian lands, and even southern Hungry. The balkan people were put to extreme misery for hundreds of years to come. The ottoman forces were taking children and had them later come in and wipe out their own villages; a lot of people who did not submit to Islam were killed in the most brutal way such as impaling; soldiers would even charge tax for getting their teeth dirty after a forced meal from a poor family. What is now Romania was occupied later as well.

The ottoman empire was also responcibe for the small populations of today's Balkan nations, taking those nations out of: the Renaissance, European impirical age, and industrial revolution.

Any opinions?

The imperial age was due to the ocean sailing revolution, and benefitted the Atlantic seaboard powers at the expense of the older spice and silk routes through the Med, so these southern Kingdoms would have missed out there if nothing else.

It is more Gegoraphic, Balkan has a lot of Mountains, here is a map, and it is not bad populated.

http://ttevisual.com/images/2geography/img-ak-toc/%20Eur%20V III-1%20pop.jpg - http://ttevisual.com/images/2geography/img-ak-toc/%20Eur%20V III-1%20pop.jpg

- During the Ottomans governed the Balkan, W-Europe has had a huge population decline due to the plague, and the recruiting of Children ended in 17 Century, then muslims could also  join the Janissaries, because they wanted also huge career changes. The Janissaries were very powerfull they often  have revolted against the Emperor, and established they own governement.

I agree. But then what about Italy during the indust. rev. when Europe divided up all of Africa for territory and colinized it all. (except for Etheopia and Liberia)

Besides the Byzintines always had a strong navy and this whole horrible time period was after all, around 500 years.

Again the industrial revolution saw a shift in power from seaboard oceananic powers to big, well resourced continental land powers. The resources of vast continents could now be properly tapped with the use of the railway, thus the most powerful countries were big land powers, USA, Germany and Russia. Britain did well early with its coal, iron and exsisting wealth but was surpassed by the big 3. Italy has very few natural resources for an industrial economy, and even France was short on coal. As for Africa, Italy didn't get much out of there, and niether did anyone else, Africa isn't the richest of continents, its climate and geography make it constantly poor.

Is the balkans full of coal and iron to fuel an indistrial revolution? Is there a large body of well integrated people, like the French or the Germans, whose common language, religion and culture hold them together?

well they did. However let me put it this way: from I read, it said that at the end of the 14th cent. The English had around the same population as Bulgaria (2 mill). Then several hundred years later the English population had multiplied by 5, while Bulgaria's had stayed around the same due to the occupation.

The balkans may not be a world leader for coal but they have enough of it.

What I am trying to say in this topic is basically that the the Ottoman empire ruined it all. This could have happened to any Eu. country if they were on the spot. If they never came the balkans would have flourished just like the rest of Europe.

Before they came the balkans were almost always simply Byz. empire, Bulgaria, Serbia, and a chunk of Hungry. The peninsula is big enough for all those 'different groups of people'. Does all of the western Eu. belong to the Fench and Germans, for example?

Originally posted by Thracian  Does all of the western Eu. belong to the Fench and Germans, for example?

Well, they certainly do try to control everything.

Wasn't there a thread about the pros and cons of belonging to an empire? 

Well about common languages Bulgarian and Serbian are closer than french and German

About religion-The whole districkt before to fall under Ottoman yoke was Orthodox

can you imagine  if they did conquered Rome as well  

then both Christian capitals of Europe would have been done

The Serb "Empire" was still a very small state compared to the main European powers and besides, it crumbled before the Ottomans ever set foot in Europe (well, technichally, one year after that). Neither of the Balkan states was politically powerfull, but culturaly the region flourished. The Ottoman conquest really screwed things around here.

Keep in mind, it was an era of constant fragmentation of Balkan states into smaller hegemonies and all these independent kings, despots and hegemons were seeking external help to handle their civil disputes.

 It comes to mind the case of John Kantakouzinos, one of the contenders of Byzantine throne who find it so easy to ally with Orhan and permit Ottomans this way to have a say in the internal affairs of Byzantine empire. It wasnt difficult for Ottomans to exploit this fact for their own favor.

Ottomans next step was to conquer Thrace, a keypoint who would later help them for their expansion to Europe. Of course this wasnt the only reason. Orthodox populations opposed with fanatism in any further penetration of Catholicism and were willing to do anything and ally with anyone to achieve it. Furthermore Ottomans didnt have to face any serious challenge in Balkans since most Balkan states were in decline, especially the once mighty Byzantine empire.