African presence in America: Pre-columbus
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: African History
Forum Discription: Talk about African History
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21222
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 15:49
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Topic: African presence in America: Pre-columbus
Posted By: Surmount
Subject: African presence in America: Pre-columbus
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 17:05
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The first civilization of ancient America is called the Olmec. It was located along the Mexican Gulf Coast and began more than three thousand years ago. The most significant and widely acknowledged sculptural representations of African people in the Western Hemisphere (the "New World") were sculpted by the Olmecs. The Olmec developed the first civilization of the Americas. At least seventeen monumental basalt stone heads, each weighing ten to forty tons, have been unearthed in Olmec sites along the Mexican Gulf Coast. One of the first European-American scientists to comment on the Olmec heads, archaeologist Mathew Stirling, described their facial features as "amazingly Negroid." Although major aspects of Olmec culture and history remain vague, enough has been recovered to demonstrate a significant African presence in the Americas many centuries before the advent of the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Some scientists have even concluded that the Olmecs may have originally been an African settler-colony. Others are convinced that the African presence among the Olmecs was confined to a small and highly-influential elite community. Native legends of the Americas abound with the exploits of early Black people. In the Southwest Indian story of the Emergence, a story that is as important in the region as the Book of Genesis is to Christians, the First World is called the Black World! During his third voyage, Columbus recorded that when he reached Haiti the resident population informed him that Black men from the south and southeast had preceded him to the island. In 1513, Balboa found a colony of Black men on his arrival in Darien, Panama. All of these facts, buttressed by skeletons and sculptures, make it clear that African people had a profound presence and influence in pre-Columbian America. |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 17:55
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Your post contain several mistakes: (1) The first cilivization of the Americas are not the Olmecs but Caral.
(2) The famous head stones are representation of people, not Africans.
(3) The Olmec culture is not that vague because there is a good deal of knowledge about it. For instance, it is know it wasn't the first culture in the region at all.
(4) South West Indians were in contact with Africans in post-colombian times. It is nothing strange they have some myth about Blacks.
(5) West Africans of the times of the Olmecs lacked writing. Actually, they didn't know how to build ships either. The more advanced nautical device they had at the time was the log canoe.... no more comments.
Pinguin
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 20:01
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Surmount, your post has no mistakes except that it doesn't agree with pinguins narrow views of pre columbian history. It especially puts Africans on the same level with Amerindians, which is beyond pinguins ability to accept. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 20:13
Dear red clay, my views about this topic are not narrow minded. Are based in knowledge and not biggotry against Amerindians, that's all.
Just leave the Amerindian heritage intact and it will be fine with me.
I hate lies, that's why I hate those clowns called Van Sertima and Clyde Winters that have played with the innocence of Black Americans.
I just hate when people robb the Amerindian heritage, that's all.
Pinguin ------------- |
Posted By: jdalton
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 05:24
So if Nubian art styles are very similar to Mesoamerican painting (head in profile, body facing forward, word glyphs surrounding), perhaps ancient Mesoamericans sailed across the Atlantic, around Africa, walked across Ethiopia, and then started building steep-angled pyramids along the upper Nile?  Or perhaps it's more likely the Nubians built those pyramids all by themselves?I'm not a historian, but I am an artist. If I had to carve a face out of a giant boulder I'm pretty sure I would make it square-jawed and flat-nosed just so I could finish the darn thing faster. How African do the Olmec heads appear if you look at them in a side view? ------------- http://www.jonathondalton.com/mycomics.html - Lords of Death and Life (a Mesoamerican webcomic) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 09:36
Similar arts are found across the cultures. There are many ancient mayan drawings that look like a Walt Disney cartoon... no kidding.
Mesomericans didn't reach Africa. The only large portion of land conquered from the mainland Americas was the Caribbean by the Arawak peoples of Venezuela. But you can see in the map that the distances were sort.
Now, the "mystery of the African" heads is simple. If you are an artist (I hope sculptor) you will realize that working with basalt is a hard job. Notice that the heads are sort of cubes instead of round, because they were recycled sacrificial stones. When you work with hard materials you try to convey the idea of volumen exagerating the patterns in the surface. That's the mystery of those stone heads. The subjects were Amerindians, of course. Olmecs, left thousand of realistic portraits of themselves so it is not hard to find the comparisons.
I believe Nubians have all the necesary to develop theirs own pyramids. Now, I also think Great Zimbabwe was build by the people of the region. And I don't like those ideas that say that "white man" tought the skills to poor aboriguinals, so Zimbabwe had to me made by phoenicians!
That's called cultural colonialism. I just don't want the same is done against the Olmecs.
Pinguin
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Posted By: jdalton
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 00:49
I know, I was kidding. Unlike Pinguin I'm inclined to believe that there may have been all sorts of unrecorded pre-colonial ocean crossings. I think Zhenghe's fleet probably went to the Caribbean, that the Inca and Easter Islanders probably met, that Marco Polo actually did get to China (some people say now that he didn't), and that the Phonecians circumnavigated Africa. So maybe a few West Africans did make it to Mexico, I don't know. But there's all sorts of evidence that this sort of thing didn't happen very often if indeed it happened at all. Certainly none of these events had a great impact on the cultures involved or they would be easier to prove- like the Gypsies showing up in Europe or the Vikings in Newfoundland. I'm convinced that the Upper Nile Pyramids were built by Nubians, Great Zimbabwe was built by the Shona, Benin City was built by West Africans, and the Olmec heads were carved by and of Mesoamericans. Nothing else makes sense. ------------- http://www.jonathondalton.com/mycomics.html - Lords of Death and Life (a Mesoamerican webcomic) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 09:45
Well, most people is "inclined" to believe that, but it is not what science shows at all. There is not evidence of pre-colonial long trips to the Americas. For the Inuits reaching the Americas it was easy, just some miles rowing in a Kayak from Siberia is enough. For the Norse it was also quite easy. Come on, Greenland is just across the Americas and you can see it from there in a clear day from the top of some mountains! The Norse achievement was a piece of cake. Shameful as it may sound.
Reaching the Americas from high seas was thougher, and there is no evidence any other people, but the Iberians, did. For that, you needed not only better ships but a knowledge a lot higher that the rest of the world had.
I do know. That's bull. There is not evidence of Zhenghe's fleet in the Americas at all. Otherwise the pests that decimated Natives had started earlier!
Well the impact of Norse on North America was nill.
I am convinced to. That's why I hate when mormons start to tell theirs history about the Lamanines, Jesus in the Americas and the lost tribe of Israel
Pinguin
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Posted By: The_Jackal_God
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 23:39
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while i welcome the movement that doesn't underestimate the abilities of the ancients, it's a little presumptuous to come to radically novel conclusions on circumstantial evidence. it's one thing to notice the circumstantial evidence, and wonder; it's another thing to assert that it means something. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 01:52
| Have you looked into topic. The people living there even described the African presence. Look up the scripts. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 02:21
Olmec Helmets are very similar to those
worn by the Nubians and West Africans of ancient times. Both are
made of a combination of Leather and metal.
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 02:23
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This head has a genetic feature that
is found among Africans in Ghana. That feature is the distinct
line on the lips that was so expertly carved in. The Helmet is
also similar to helmets created by the Pan-Nubian civilization
that spread from Southern Egypt and Sudan to West Africa.
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 10:01
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This topic has already been discussed fully in here. Please, don't repeat the same absurd ideas like a parrot... I beg you. Olmecs weren't Black like you. They were Amerindians. Period.
Some time ago we develop a series about Afrolunacy. It was about the Black Vikings, Black China and Black Olmecs, you can find the oppinions on the site looking for "Lunacy of Afrocentrism".
The discussion about Van Sertima's lie about Black Olmecs in on here. See the arguments and come back.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18434&KW=OLMECS - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18434&KW=OLMECS
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Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 14:38
This is a Tzotzil person from the Chiapas region of Mexico (where the cradle of the Olmec civilization was). If you're going to contend that he looks African, I would invite you to take a look at other people who are distantly related to the Native Americans, such as the Cambodians or the Philippinos...
------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 15:00
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This is actually a very realistic portrait of real Olmecs. They were Amerindians, and you can find the obvious similarities with the stone heads looking at it.   And if you are still skeptical, look at this animation...
Pinguin
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Posted By: Mumbloid
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2007 at 15:38
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actually I stand with Pinguin, there is no proff the africans reached the ameircan continent, or vice versa.
If one day something that proff it shows up, no allarm from me, but uintill then, the idea of africans in precolumbian america, it's just science fiction.
------------- The future keeps the past alive. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 00:26
| Penguin i see what your trying to say with one statue, but nobody is saying that they were originally African or all African. The article is just saying Africans were there. Which some ancients scripts even say. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 00:44
No fellow. It offends me that you insist in robbing the heritage of Native Americans.
Your sources all point to a sect of Afrocentrists that was started by Ivan Van Sertima, a clown from Suriname and not a scientist at all.
Please don't insist. Your ideas are wrong, false and offensive.
Pinguin
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:24
What! Are you serious! your offended just by the fact that Africans were there. Why are you making such a big deal about Africans being in the Americas before Columbus. Its not that big of a deal. Even some hispanics and caucasians believe that there were africans in that region. It has nothing the do with Afrocentrism. |
Posted By: The_Jackal_God
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:25
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"pan-nubian" usually sounds the alarm for me. we know so little about the nubians, let alone west africa of antiquity. pan-nubian civilization stretching from sudan to west africa? but they didn't leave any roads, linguistic markers, or folklore behind. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:43
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What people have to understand is that practically all the history we
know of today has been taught written and recorded, and then rewritten
by the Eurocentist. That is why so many people are brainwashed. The
people who rule most of the world will control the history most people
learn. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:47
It offend me you say is a FACT. It isn't!!!
You are simply pushing an RACIST ideology that's robbing heritages.
And you keep going and going on like a parrot, as if truth can be proven with the number of words instead of fact.
West Africans didn't have ships at the time of the Olmecs. How they got there... swimming
You are not going to convince me with crap, fellow. Sorry.
You better go back to Egyptsearch and other afroloonies places.
In here we discuss history, not if Santa Clauss live in the North Pole.
Pinguin ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:49
You are not better than Eurocentrists.
You are an Afrocentric Racist that is trying to robb the heritage of the people of the Yucatan, Belize and Guatemala.
Pinguin
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 01:55
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What are you talking about? Even many Hispanics and Caucasians believe that Africans were in America before Columbus. It has nothing to do with Afrocentrism. No one is robbing heritage its just people have proved they were there. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:32
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Pinguin please calm down. Studies have just shown that they were there. Just there not that they were all African. Your making this bigger than what it is. Just because some Caucasions and other ethnicities believe that Africans were in amereica before columbus doesn't mean that they are dumb. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 02:37
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Nope. You don't have studies and anything. Stop telling false claims.
Your beliefs means anything. Other branches of dumbs believe Tiahuanaco was built by green martians from flying saucers, that Jesus Christ walked in the pre-Contact Americas surrounded by the lost tribe of Israel, that Phoenicians were in here as well, or Chineses, or East Indians, or Japaneses. You name it.
All false claims!!
Otherwise show your evidence. And read the paper above!!!!
I won't continue to argue dumb things with a fanatic ...
Pinguin
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Posted By: jdalton
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 04:14
What ancient scripts? Show me. ------------- http://www.jonathondalton.com/mycomics.html - Lords of Death and Life (a Mesoamerican webcomic) |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 04:25
| you have to realize there is substantial evidence that proves The African presence in many civilizations evidence found by many races not just blacks. A lot of the evidence outweighs the dominant Eurocentric perspective, but it's just we all are trained and taught since a young age in school a narrow minded view of history. There are so many caucasian professors that teach African studies in college, and they teach and believe in the African presence in different civilizations. It's not an issue for them. |
Posted By: jdalton
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 04:50
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I think I said I'm not a historian. Thus I'm not trained and taught a narrow minded view of history. I'm always open to new ideas about history, as long as there's evidence and they make sense. The article Pinguin posted has proven that Olmec heads are pictures of Olmecs. Guessing the race of a person shown in a piece of art is too subjective to hold any water anyways without some other evidence. What other evidence do you have? Show me! I want to see these ancient scripts.
------------- http://www.jonathondalton.com/mycomics.html - Lords of Death and Life (a Mesoamerican webcomic) |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 05:05
| Columbus recorded that when he reached Haiti the resident population informed him that Black men from the south and southeast had preceded him to the island. In 1513, Balboa found a colony of Black men on his arrival in Darien, Panama. All of these facts, buttressed by skeletons and sculptures, make it clear that African people had a profound presence and influence in pre-Columbian America. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2007 at 11:39
Ponce de Leon reported the Fountain of Youth in florida. Llamas were described as sheeps. Amerindians were described as Europeans. Magellian described the existence of giants in Patagonia 
By the way, I have the log of Columbus at home.
You keep falling in the same falacy of comparing pictures and annecdotical quotations. That's the method of the charlatan, not of science.
Read the article!!!!
Don't avoid it. It is writting by some of the few people that wasted theirs times
Pinguin
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Posted By: jdalton
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 05:15
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I have to agree on Pinguin on that one. Columbus returned to the Caribbean three times and either never admitted or never realized he wasn't in India. Meanwhile other Europeans had been there and back and were already marking it on their maps as a new continent. No doubt Columbus claimed to find black people (a.k.a. Southern Indians) and cannibals (as in Arab legends about the far east Indies) just to support his claims. I was hoping you had some Mesoamerican sources. ------------- http://www.jonathondalton.com/mycomics.html - Lords of Death and Life (a Mesoamerican webcomic) |
Posted By: The_Jackal_God
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2007 at 22:48
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no, no, no van sertima knows the truth, and the thousands of others who studied the matter for hundreds of years were too racist to admit the truth, and we are the ones being brainwashed... what's that saying, the kettle calling the pot black?
|
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 00:37
Yes, and there is a Rasta flag next to the lunar lander that has been placed there before Neil Armstrong was ever born.
There is no real proof that any populations made it to the Americans prior to the Vikings, and then the Europeans, and others.
There were Africans with a high degree of culture, and sophistication that came to Africa, and presered their culture for centuries. Oludah Equiando for example in his narrative displays an extreme amount of culture, and pride in his ancestry, he had a home, had a civilization he belonged to before being forcibly transplanted.
Focus on such presence of Africans in America that is real history, and also fascinating history that does not get much mention.
I find his account very interesting, and it is not the only one.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 00:39
He is not offended that Africans were there if they would have been there. He is offended that you have no real proof for your outlandish claims.
That would be the same as assuming that some of the great Sub-Saharan civilizations were facilitated by Vikings, or insert any other seafaring Europeans, or perhaps the Chinese.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 10:09
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Yes!
What offend me is pseudo-history.
It is very hard for me to convince people about the originality of Amerindian achievenments when there are so many dozens of hyperdiffusionist fantasies going around, that have no support at all
I want people to understand how remarkable was what happened in the Americas where the hunter gatherers evolved into sophisticated societies by theirs own. Comparing that with the parallel achievements in Eurasia is a lot more interesting to understand the evolution of human societies in global scale, rather than obsolete fantasies for kids.
Pinguin ------------- |
Posted By: andrew
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 17:51
| So let me guess, after the Africans created ships that far surpassed Zheng He's fleet, Nordic ships, and Carthaginian ships Africans built superior ships and built the civilizations of the Mayans, Aztecs, and Incas. Then they decided to spread into China and create the first dynasty then created the Mongol dynasty and then set up the Kievan Rus. Thanks Surmount. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2007 at 23:56
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Many of the Olmecs
were Africans from the Mandinka region of West Africa. They used the
Mende script to write and they spoke the Mende language, the same
language spokenby Cinque in the move Amistad. The Mende script found on monuments at Monte Alban in Mexico, has been deciphered and it was found to be identical to the Mende script used in West Africa. Afterwards, the language was found to be the very same language spoken by the Mende of West Africa. |
Posted By: Sander
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 03:05
There is no evidence that these scripts are very old. Most scholars place them in the 1800 -1900 s ,while the Olmec inscriptions are attested to be from the first millenium BC .
Big gap.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 15:23
Indeed. Mande scrip was invented in the 20th century. No West African alphabet existed before colonization because the region lacked writing.
Please Van Sertima and Clyde Winters are not reliable sources at all.
Now, if the African alphabets were invented in the 20th century, how it managed to influenced the Olmecs of the 1sth Milennium BC? A time machine?
Mende syllabary
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Posted By: Almazy
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 21:33
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"Please Van Sertima and Clyde Winters are not reliable sources at all." I DEFINETLY AGREE WITH THIS!! dont depend on Clyde winters. I mean the man talks about black vikings..... most scholars laugh at his work. but the sad thing is some people often use clyde winters as an example of "afrocentrism". but even Afrocentrist believe this guy is crazy. btw member_profile.asp?PF=4737&FID=64 - pinguin why go on and on about how some written languages in west africa was created in the 20th? yes some WLs in parts of west africa were created at this time but there are many african WLs that are Ancient. now one thing I dont agree with is clyde winters saying that the olmecs were black and blah blah blah... However it is possible that Malians may have traveled to the Americas. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 21:48
I have studied the topic, and I least I am totally wrong (If so, correct me) there weren't aborigin writen languages in West Africa South of the Sahara.
Yes, we know that in coastal North Africa in Egypt and in East Africa down to Ethiopia there are writen languages since 3.000 years ago at least. However, crossing the Sahara there weren't any.
That's why the griot traditions existed in the first place. Writing in those regions started with the Muslim invasions in the Middle Ages.
By the way, that's just a cultural detail. Believe me or not, it is known in history that quite a few people invented writing... most of them copied from somebody else.
That's likely indeed. There are several histories of Muslim expeditions in from Spain to Mali of expeditions across the ocean. That's something one can't discount because Muslims of the Middle Ages had the technology to cross oceans. Now, Middle Ages Mali it was in the multicultural and international circuit of Muslim countries that spread from Spain and Mali to India and beyond. The Tombuctu library proves that place was a very important center in the network of societies that spread through half the world.
Now, if Babu Mussa fleet had accomplished that trip he wouldn't have found Olmecs at all. It was too late for that. They would had found Mayans already in decadence. The impact would have been minimum, because the local society would have absorved those travellers.
Pinguin
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Posted By: Almazy
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 21:58
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another thing I found interesting is that Thor Heyerdahl proved that you could travel from africa to far off place on a "reed boat".LOL. I believe that Malians could of traveled to America and simply traded with them maybe. or shared cultures. "Ttbomk, Colon was involved in mercantile ventures with "Guinea" some ten years before he planned his westward voyage. He saw "Guineans" traveling westward, beyond the nearby islands, laden with trade goods. This is one reason why I suspect Mali, and later Songhai, kept the success of Bubacar's voyage a government trade secret" |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 21:58
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Posted By: Almazy
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:00
| I guess that we would have to find some items,plants,food, or anything that in mali that you would usually find in America. |
Posted By: Almazy
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:06
how is this "afro" olmec? I don't see anything african about this face and Africans have alot of genetic diversity. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:09
Hyperdiffusionism is a vice that has infected many people, including Thor Heyyerdhal.
He didn't prove contact at all. All his theories has been desacredited by science. His idea that Peruvians reached Easter Island is today considered crap.
The trip of Musa has not been proven at all. It is just especulation, nothing else.
There are hundreds of similar claims and all of them have no support in reality.
The case of the Norse is quite extrange but understandable. The Americas were easily reached both from Siberian and from Greenland. The distances were quite short. In fact in both cases you could reach the Americas rowing.
You can't cross the atlantic or the pacific in a small boat. You need ships.
Pinguin
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:11
Once again robbing the heritage of Amerindians, Surmount?
No matter how much you insist. That claim is not based in fact at all.
Is just pure concentrated bull .... nothing else.
The inventor of that ideology is Ivan Van Sertima. Blame him for making the ridiculous. In doubt, ask Clyde Winters
Pinguin
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:21
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They weren't all African Thats what it seems like you think i am trying to say. But Africans played a role in the Americas In some of the early civilizations in America.
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:22
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Posted By: Almazy
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:35
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[QUOTE=Surmount]They weren't all African Thats what it seems like you think i am trying to say. But Africans played a role in the Americas In some of the early civilizations in America.
^^Why does this picture look so pixelated? played a role? maybe. like trading with the olmecs but this hasnt been proven yet. |
Posted By: Almazy
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:40
im not sure what is being proven here. |
Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 22:47
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Dr. Wiercinski (1972) claims that the some of
the Olmecs were of African origin. He supports this claim with skeletal
evidence from several Olmec sites where he found skeletons that were
analogous to the West African type black. Wiercinski discovered that
13.5 percent of the skeletons from Tlatilco and 4.5 percent of the
skeletons from Cerro de las Mesas were Africoid (Rensberger,1988;
Wiercinski, 1972; Wiercinski & Jairazbhoy 1975). This is amazing proof So where are you Alzamy and penguin from? And this is hard evedince not from an afrocentist |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:08
Wiercinski is another idiot fellow without any prestige at all.
It is a pitty, Surmount, but the sad fact is that you don't care about Amerindian culture at all and robbing theirs ancestors.
I bet you claim racism when someone says Zimbadwe was built by Phoenicians and that Egypt was fully caucasian...
However you don't got the smallest respect for the people that build the civilizations of the Americas.
By the way, unlike what your "authority" Van Sertima says, the Olmecs were not the first civilization in the Americas at all.
I won't tell you, though, the origins of the civilizations in the Americas. Otherwise another charlatan could claim that civilization for the people of Nepal
Pinguin
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:26
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This isn't about race I could care less about race I'm just stating a part of history thats been proven and pushed aside. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:27
I got your sources, Surmount. You relay on "Race and History", and afrocentric site.
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/ancientamerica.htm - http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/ancientamerica.htm REFERENCES: Wash*taw Nation ( http://www.Hotep.org - www.Hotep.org ) Clyde A. Winters (The Nubians and the Olmecs) Blacks of India dalitstan.org Blacks of the Pacific and Melanesia: If you ever visit the ancient Afro-Olmec monuments of Mexico, the Wash*taw Nation of Louisiana, the monuments of Nubia, Egypt or West Africa you need to take great pictures: http://www.photoalley.com - www.photoalley.com Your main schollar is Clyde Winters...
If you want to know more about the Wish*ta nation I will tell you that is just a group of Black Americans that like to play indians and that a really weird doctrine.
Here a link about the Black mound builders
http://khandi.kickinthedoorprod.com/wash*taw.htm - http://khandi.kickinthedoorprod.com/wash*taw.htm
Please. Could you read history, for a change?
Moderators: Can something be done to prevent posting pseudo-history?
Pinguin
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:28
Is only about race. Not about fact or history.
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Posted By: Surmount
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:39
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This isn't about race I could care less about race I'm just stating a part of history thats been proven and pushed aside. Some writers claim that the Olmec were related to peoples of Africa based on interpretation of a wide range of skeletal, linguistic, epigraphic, religious and anthropological data. Some researchers specifically identify the Olmecs with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mand%C3%A9 - Mandé people of West Africa. The idea that the Olmecs are related to Africans is an old one. José Melgar, who discovered the first colossal head at Hueyapan (now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tres_Zapotes - Tres Zapotes ) in 1862, subsequently published two papers that attributed this head to a "Negro race". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec_alternative_origin_speculations#_note-0 - [1] José Melgar is a mesoamerican the first one to find the heads and he even attributes these heads to Africans.Remember i told you a long time ago not only blacks claim this even mesoamericans, caucasians, all sorts of people have given evidence of them being african. Like i said its not about race its about fact. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:45
If it is not about race, why you cite racist sources?
By the way, you are trying to push pseudo-history and in no way history, which is based on facts.
And I am afraid you will keep pushing.
Pinguin
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Posted By: Byzantine Emperor
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2007 at 23:46
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This thread has surpassed its original purpose. No one is convincing the other of his point in a free discussion. Rather, people are being provoked into ceaseless arguments and the moderators are being annoyed by ad nauseam repetition. As in the other thread which Seko closed, so also will this one be closed until further notice.
------------- http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=12713 - Late Byzantine Military http://www.allempires.net/forum_posts.asp?TID=17337 - Ottoman perceptions of the Americas |