1st post-Roman European city of a million people
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Discription: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21124
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 03:22
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: 1st post-Roman European city of a million people
Posted By: Constantine XI
Subject: 1st post-Roman European city of a million people
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 10:07
|
The city of Rome reached a million people in the census of 138 BC, the
first time a European city had ever done so. After the fall of Rome, a
decline in urban population occured throughout the Empire and in Rome
itself. Constantinople reached about 750,000 people at its zenith, but
this isn't quite a million. When was it that a European city once again was able to boast a million inhabitants? |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 10:20
|
Cordaba? Paris? Rome itself?
Honestly, no clue.
------------- |
Posted By: Patch
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2007 at 10:49
|
London was the first European city to reach a million since the fall of the WRE and that wasn't until the early c19th.
I will never cease to be amazed by the scale of the population decline after the fall of the WRE and the enormous length of time before western Europe's population recovered.
|
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 03:51
|
Surely constantinople after the conquest of the Turks in 1453 is one to consider? I mean, the huge influx of not only Turks but many other Muslims into this vast city must have done something drastic to it's numbers.
Another one that I would consider would be the Holy Roman empire under the early years (Theodoric, Charglemane). It was one of the main areas of power in the early middle ages world and probably encouraged a huge amount of migrations
...There's also Baghdad under the Abbasid Caliphate - Harun Al-Rashid in particular ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 05:27
|
Aster, Constantinople was only 30,000 people strong at the time of the
conquest, probably several thousand less once the casualties from the
siege are accounted for. It would have taken considerable time for it
to build up to a million. I am pretty confident that no Dark Age urban centres were able to support a concentration of a million people, except for a few in China. Baghdad was magnificent in its heyday. However, it is not a European city. Any one have any more ideas on when and where we have a million people at one time living together after the fall of Rome? ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 06:11
|
Cordaba? Thats the closest I can think off. Any clue how many lived there.
------------- |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 06:13
Okay, fair enough- but what about in it's heyday? Suleman the Magnificent? Selim the Grim and Sultan Ahmed? It must have been close to a million (including Genoese and Ventetian areas) then?
...As for the rest of the million, I would reckon that, in retrospect, you would have to wait until the enlightenment, when urban developed had advanced to a level where it could sustain such huge numbers. Perhaps 1600s Paris or London (more likely) are eligable candidates? ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 06:57
|
Okay Codova was around 450,000, in 1000 AD. http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201c.htm - http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201c.htm I would say the best candidate is London. http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201e.htm - http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201e.htm
Also the defination of what is a city also matter, are the surrounding towns whose entire existance is dependent on the city coutned?
------------- |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 08:44
|
Well, look at Athens of the Tyrants (slightly out of our sphere of discussion...)! "Athens" and indeed the whole concept of the Greek "Polis" did not just mean city, but the whole state. ------------- |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 09:09
| Wow, so hard to find a city with a million people in it. It is kind of unbelievable with the population standards of today. The earth must have been a much nicer place. Considering all this, the city of Rome reaching a million people in 138 BC is remarkable. |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 09:17
|
Well, Rome in the period of the antionine or adoptive emperors is supposed to have been the most peaceful and prosperous period for the western world EVER ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 09:22
|
I think Gibbon was being too kind. Just ask the Persians. Also the world population tends to fluctuate and todays cities are pretty much the size of states today. Also urbanisation is a huge fact of life.
Just wait till the next war.
------------- |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 13:13
Yeah, apparently London is now bigger than the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Mercia. ------------- |
Posted By: Justinian
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 04:36
|
I think Paris reached the million mark in the ~early-mid 19th century. I think it was something like 600,000 to 750,000 at the time of the revolution. ------------- "War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann 
|
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2007 at 07:31
The ottoman sultans invested alot of time and money rebuilding Constantinople after they took it. Mehmed II himself used bribery, concessions, and forced movements to increase the population of the city, and pretty well succeeded. I think istanbul had recovered to about 100,000 by Mehmed II death. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Oct-2007 at 08:47
Paris had quite a boom during the Restoration:
1800 - 550 000
1850 - 1 050 000
|
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2007 at 19:59
|
The point is less when did London (first) and Paris (second) reached the million point then how did they do it? Other cities such as Cordoba or Bagdad were somewhat more suburb-ish. Few buildings were more than two stories high. "New cities" were commonly created. In the mean time Naples and Paris commonly had five to six floors. The cities of the time faced three major issues: - Where to get the food and other supplies from? - As one can't leave more than 1 to 2 hours from her work that limits the size of a city (ie 4 to 6 km wide as you have to account for congestion and tricky street system). - As more people died than were born in cities, the countryside has to "produced" more people. Even more problematic what brought increasingly more people in cities? ------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: dexippus
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 19:53
| 18th century London |
Posted By: Epaminondas
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2008 at 13:57
| I'm not certain, but I have heard, that in China were cities, where lived over million inhabitants. This is quite possible, when we are watching overall population in China. |