Conversion to Christianity
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mediterranean and Europe
Forum Discription: Greece, Macedon, Rome and other cultures such as Celtic and Germanic tribes
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1991
Printed Date: 19-Apr-2024 at 22:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Conversion to Christianity
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Conversion to Christianity
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 14:04
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I was wondering if any of you out there could clear up something that has had me puzzled for some time. Why did Christianity rise to become the official religion and later only religion of the Roman Empire. Please don't give me "because Yahweh was the one true god". I've never understood why the Roman Emperors in particular would abandon a loose polytheistic faith well suited for keeping an empire together for a religion known since its beginnings for its intolerance particularly towards its fellow christians. This is all well put by the last "pagan" emperor, Julian, in one of his many books in which he tries to hold back the tide of christianity. He write: "would not any man be justified in detesting the wise amongst you and pitying the fools who follow you, to the depth of ruin, and abandon the eternal Gods for the corpse of a Jew, and kill Heretics because they do not wail in the same manner as you" |
Replies:
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 18:04
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well I believe by the time Constantine came to power the Christian poulation was approaching the halfway mark. Perhaps he made a shrewd and wise decision to pre-empt the tides of popular thought. Also Christians of that time tended not to regard the emperor as legitimate, if indeed they were becomng a larger constituency this way he gets at least their support. And of course, things like this often have to do with the desire to clean out some people or positions in government using radical change. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 21:41
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I wouldn't say that Romans were "usually" polytheistic and faithful to
their mythology. Many emperors were stoics, largely influenced by the
philosophical movements. One century before Constantine legalized Christianity, the
Emperor Elagabalus brough his cult of Sol Invictus, which was
essentially montheistic sun worship, to Rome. Around this time, another
similar cult, that of Mithra, became popular especially among eastern
Legionaires. When Aurealian became emperor, he essentially made Sol
Invictus, at this point somewhat indistinguisable from Mithraism, the
official religion. Constantine was a worshippper of Sol Invictus, not
Iuppiter. Futhermore, religion was not constant in the empire. There were many fringe cults like the cult of Isis. ------------- |
Posted By: JasSum
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 09:37
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its interesting
as i know mitra is goddes that was popular among soldiers. And the cult comes from persia as i think. Well from east anyway. I wonder if anywhere this name still exist. We have names such as Mitra (f) and Mitre (m). Some say that its origin is from (Di)mitar. Just wondering if people from east can give me some example of that name? And why it became official. Its always politics. And we alwasy listen to our mothers (as Konstantin listened to his) - heheheh |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 10:29
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Christianity was spreading fast. Constantine just kept upt with time. ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Belial
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 12:11
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I believe
it was because constantine was trying to exploit Christianity. He rewrote the
old testemants. So he could have more control over Christianity. Also because
he saw it was a losing battle to fight Christianity. |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 13:05
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Yes, romans were great politics. No doubt about it. ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Miller
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 13:13
There is more info in this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1508&PN=2 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1508& ; ;PN=2 and this site http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/mithra.htm - click here |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 15:50
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The story of Mithras should be oddly familiar to any christian. Born on the 25th of December of Virgin birth. He was known as the light of the world and saved mankind by sacfrifing a bull. Exchange the bull for himself and he becomes remarkably similar to another saviour. ------------- |
Posted By: Cornellia
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 19:04
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Christianity was already firmly established by Constantine's time - may Roman citizens had already been converted so his position had political as well as religious implications. One theory for the quick spread of Christianity is that it offered a chance for redemption which the former state religion of Rome did not. Its true that Mithras and Christianity shared a lot of similar concepts.....but Mithras was primarily worshipped by the military and IIRC was pretty much limited to men. ------------- Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas |
Posted By: JasSum
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 20:31
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miller, thanks.
the first site is pretty full with BS the second ... i found something maybe the name mitra /mitre left here because of the bogomils and their great influence in the area. i wonder if those names apear anywhere else |
Posted By: Sabzevarian
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2005 at 03:10
| I know a persian girl named Mitra. |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2005 at 03:17
That's hardly the same kind of sacrifice. It's not quite as being nailed to a cross. But anyway, it would be interesting to hear the paraboles of the bull! And, btw, how can one save mankind by killing a bull? Did he stand for the sins of man? ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 16:55
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Wrong. Only 10% of the Empire population in 313 was Christian. For example:
http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_286.html - http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_286.html
(scroll down to the yellow indicated lines to the bottom of the page)
I must ad that most of this population was in the Eastern, Greek speaking provinces, where the Christianism originated and was always strong:
"By the beginning of the 300s, Christians in the eastern half of the empire had expanded to twenty or more percent of its Greek speaking population."
http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch23.htm - http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch23.htm
(at Renewed Persecutions of Christians and rise of Constantine the Great)
Wrong. The Christian teachings says to obey the political ruler. Christians entered in opisition only when they were asked to make religous sacrifices for the emperor as a god.
I heard that absurdity, also that Constantine moved the capital to escape from the Senat of Roma. In fact he converted to Christianism even he didnt get baptized (he couldnt did that because as emperor he was the Great Pontif of the Pagan official religion, so he baptized only at the end of his life). Constantine not only had gived freedom to Christianism as a religion, but also favourized the Christians and the Church. The priests were not paying taxes, cultic buildings were erected and so on. Constantine convocated the first Ecumenical Sinode of the Church and patronized it with a humble atitudine. He was the greatest man from the history of humanity and also a real Christian and a Saint.
Due to its measures, also due to the atraction generated by the morality of the Christian message, the new religion spreaded quikly so in 350 AD ~56% of the empire population was Christian:
http://www.christiancadre.org/member_contrib/cp_infanticide.html - http://www.christiancadre.org/member_contrib/cp_infanticide.html
(at Christianity and Infanticide)
"Mithraism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language - Persian :آيين مهر Āyīn-e Mehr) was an ancient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religion - mystery religion prominent from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_century_BCE - 1st century BCE to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_century - 5th century CE. It was based on worship of the god http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras - Mithras and derives from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Empire#Parthian_Persia - Persian and Indic god http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithra - Mithra and other http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism - Zoroastrian deities. Mithras was known throughout Europe and Asia by the names Mithra, Mitra, Meitros, Mihr, Mehr, and Meher. The veneration of this school of thought began about 4,000 years ago in Iran, where it was soon embedded with Babylonian doctrines and all the rest of Iran.
Mithraism apparently originated in the Eastern part of today's Iran around the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_century_BC - 7th century BC . It was practiced in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire - Roman Empire since the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_century_BC - first century BC [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources - citation needed ], and reached its apogee around the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_century - third through http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_century - fourth centuries AD, when it was very popular among the Roman soldiers. Mithraism disappeared from overt practice after the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_I - Theodosian decree of AD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/391 - 391 banned all pagan rites, and it apparently became extinct thereafter" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
Yes, its used by Romanians as a family name. For example, the former Minister of Transports is called Miron Mitrea. It surely is not an ancient origin name, it derives from Dimitry, the name of Saint Demeter (Christian Martyr from Thessaloniki under the Tetrarchy).
What you mean by the "old testaments"? Perhaps the Apostolic evangelies and epistoles? How could you imagine that a converted as Constantin could have such a culture to write the evangelies and epistoles? How could you imagine he could replace the original evangelies and epistoles when in the empire were spread so many exemplaries of them? -------------  |
Posted By: Emperor Barbarossa
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 18:13
Yes, it is as if the Christians stole this myth or something. ------------- 
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Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 04:59
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Strange, in Romania there are people with the familly name "Mitran".
------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 14:14
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This name is recent. There are not old or of misterious origin names of Romanians. ------------- |
Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 02:34
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Please tell me the origin of the name Ortila
------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 12:12
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Never heard of this names. Names terminated in "ila" or "ala" could be an ancient vestige from Dacian times, when some names were terminating in "ilo". We see these terminations as and accentuation of the characteristic expressed by the word of origin. These names are mostly nicks, for example Flamanzila from "a flamanzi"= to be hungry, ori Negrila from "negru"=black. I know that the "ila" termination was meet also in Gothic names and ofcourse in the name of Atilla. ------------- |
Posted By: John the Kern
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2006 at 16:36
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Christains *spits* what use is a carpenter with a horde of angry "barbarians" pouring into the empire. I think constantine used it as a pr stunt, many christians refused to serve in the army, Constantine said he recieved a vision for God before one battle. i think he came up with the concept of the holy war, Pagans as a rule dont go to war over gods, funny how the christians preach peace and then sharpen thier swords if you dont listen ------------- My peoples tale is written in blood |
Posted By: ill_teknique
Date Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 15:16
The pagan population was in the majority after Constantine. What happend was that in "official" terms since Christians were favoured in offices the pagan population was left alone to practice at home, but not in public. Therefore, the illusion of Christian majority developed by the Roman government over decades became official state policy due to the fact that if forceful conversions had been attempted the stability of the state would have been undermined even more, not to mention the powerful aristocartic class had remained largerly pagan. Basically what happened after legalization and the eventual institutionalization of Christianty as the state religion was that the state applied a dont ask dont tell policy and "assumed" that all were Christian. |