I have read some papers and a book of a guy named Prof. Ilber Ortayli.

Do not worry, he is not an extremist guy. He always mentions that Ottoman Empire was the third Roman Empire. Well many things were inherited from Roman Empire for sure. The style of the mosques, architecture, state organization, army organization, etc...

What do you think?

are you one of those turkish who are dying to be westerner?

No thanks I am not dying, I am living.

Ottoman Empire was more Roman than Islamic for sure in my opinion. It was never an islamic empire actually. The people in the Balkans was not forced for conversion, unlike the other islamic empires.

Janissary was some kind of a Legionarry.

99% of the mosques in Turkey are influenced by Hagia Sophia Church.

Turkish Arts Music is coming from Roman Rituals, you should listen it, especially while drinking raki.ouzo/wine and eating fish .

How can anyone claim that the Ottoman Empire was a extention of the Roman Empire?

The Ottman Empire REPLACED what was left of the Roman Empire. Just because they inheriated certain aspects of Byzantine (Roman) culture does not make them Roman.

The Ottman Empire was a Islamic Empire in every sense (Not only was it the seat of the Caliphate for half of Islams history, it was one of the longest surviving dynasties in history), is it just that the Turks of today may be ashamed to admit it so?

Tell that to my people(Albanians) who were slaughtered and raped until conversions. The smart ones left for Italy Sicily.

then why they still muslims?

Are you trying to be insulting or plain stupid?

yes

but if you are a grown up man and knew that this religion was forced on you and it is not suitable for you why are you keep practicing it?

why Albanians with all these suffering just because they are muslims still muslims

i guess the raping and the killing these days not to force them to become muslims , its the other way around

and they still muslims and increasing.

If anyone is the successor to the Byzantine Empire it is the Ottoman Empire. Russia's case is really weak. This is the majority view among Ottoman historians from anywhere as well, as far as I can tell. I've read it from many sources, including Ortayli, Lewis and Hobsbawm.

On the other hand, I think the OE is also an Islamic Empire, and its identity as an Islamic Empire takes precedence over its other facets, including its 'Turkishness' or 'Romanness'. So I see nothing wrong with placing the OE under Islamic Empires.

Finally, since the Byzantine Empire is not considered 'western' I don't see how the OE being its successor would make Turks western. Sounds like a flimsy excuse to attack people...

Please tell me where in the Ottoman archieves that their was a document stressing forcefull conversion of Albanians.

To mention rape and forced conversion one should simply roll back the clock to 1995 and after. Tell me who were forcing the Bosnians and Albanians to convert and who were raping them? Why did Europe do nothing until the American's stepped in? Who supported Serbia and the ultranationalists in their ethnic cleansing campaign, while most of the world watched in disgust?

Is this incorrect interoperation of Islamic law?

From AFP:

...In the Sharia, or Islamic law, "mortad" is a reference to someone who has committed apostacy by leaving Islam while "mahdour al-damm" is a term applying to someone whose blood may be shed with impunity....

the transilations are correct

In Islamic law can the blood of someone leaving Islam be shed with impunity?

as far as i know  yes

but it is not practiced any more, not even in the arabia

I think we're taking this a bit out of context.  In the Christian religious texts - how many offenses are punishable by death?  What is the prescribed method of execution?  How many places actually observe these strictures today?

It is interesting material - but getting quite off topic.  Let's try to stay closer to the original theme and not hijack this thread - if you want to discuss this further - pleae open a new thread on the appropriate board.

Is it not illegal to leave the Islamic faith for another. That is definately illegal in Egypt and many other Muslim countries.

There was only one Rome. Byzantium was too Christian, and the Ottomans too Islamic.

But should the Ottoman empire be considered European, taking into account arabic, persian, and not to mention turkic, influences?

Conversion of albanians on islam was like that.

Ottoman rule had taxation system which seperates muslim - nonmuslims. If yeomanry people from nonmuslim areas would become a muslim. They had economical advantages but subjects of him had to be converted too. Thus caused albanian people to get in islamic world fastly.

I can easily say , money rulz. Especially for albanians.

But they liked islam. And their grandmothers werent raped or such silly thing.

What Rome are you talking about? East, West, Christian, Pagan........ There is not a unique and stagnant culture. It can be very well said that Ottomans were the Islamic Rome.

It can be said that Ottoman Empire was the closest political structure to East Rome which cannot be seen as a part of western civilization as well. Apart from Mediterranian regions of Europe, other parts are nothing more than imitations of Rome.

This is a struggle of northern Europeans to create an identity, a shift from the hut civilization to stone buildings. This is not history but created history. It is not much different than claiming heritage of Trojans by farest north countries of Europe.

well put Alparslan.

The capital city of OE was Istanbul as well.

I think northern europeans have an identity! The Vikings for instance. Every people has an identity, whatever it may be.

Rome (the classical Roman Empire) sets the standards for the future empires. That's why every one speaks of a second, third, fourth, etc., Rome. 

Truth is, Greeks now object it but their ancestors fought and died for their Caesar' s.

This book can be found very easily:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=5E6K0RIAXe&isbn=0674013859&itm=3 - http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp? userid=5E6K0RIAXe&isbn=0674013859&itm=3

It mentions that Comneni Emperor recognices Mehmet the Conqueror as the Emperor of Romans.

Well thrones are bought by power, Ottoman dynasty bought it by their power. Greeks were governing the empire in reality, Turks lost their positions to Greeks and other guys.

Counting Ottoman Empire as an Islamic Empire is a big mistake. It will be like counting Roman Empire as a Christian Empire. It is true that governors were muslim but they have never forced others to become muslims. Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians (Turkish origined) are still orthodox.

Army was formed of Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians.

Navy was completely Greek.

Governments were consisted of Greek with some Serbs and some Albanians.

Well I can not say it is a Turkish Empire either. And do not be deceived, in those days, Islam was far more advanced, free, enlightened religion than Christianity. So do not be confused of the conversions.

It is very simple Vagabond. Backwardness is for any kind of people in the world. There were many Turks who have converted to Orthodox religion under Ottoman or Seljuk rules. They were not killed because in those days Islam was enlightened. On the other hand, on these days, Christians burnt their women who were accused of being a witch.

In Ottoman Empire, never there was a blood shed. Non muslims ate their pork, drank their wine with plessure while their muslim friends sitting in the same table (most drank alcohol too). We have emperors who died of an illness, caused by Alcohol, Murat IV. Many emperors drank alcohol like many do today in Turkey.

Relax man, this is the key word.

I suggest Ottomans belong here.

Albanians became muslim, far before Ottoman conquests. And Muslim Albanians resisted more than Christian Serbs and Greeks to the Ottoman conquests. Albanian stubborness is a common phrase in Turkey.

Actually, angry mobs burned the local weirdoes for being witches. Single, lonely old women were more likely to be considered weird than men, but men were still burned anyway.

The Ottoman Empire is a very complicated issue... First of all, we cant identify Ottoman Empire as Turkish, since the emperors even dont identify themselves so...

Ottoman Empire was a multi ethnical and multi religious empire which was built on a synthesis of ancient Roman, Islamic, Turkish and Middle Eastern cultures. The empire's goal was to unite the world under their rule to form the third Rome. They didnt differ any nations, but religious groups of people. Turkmens were only a major ethnic population under Ottoman rule who were always tried to be converted to Sunnites from Alevis or other beliefs, and rebellious against the Ottoman authority because of religion, economy and pressure made by padishahs.

So if to identify Ottoman Empire, I would prefer to say certainly the third Rome...

This is an exaggeration. But it is true that Ottoman top state mechanism has mostly lost Turkish ethnicity but the new comers were not belonging to any nations either. They were raised to serve the state and sultan as devoted Muslims.

Why empire's top mechanism lost Turkish ethnicity?

There were many Turkish beyliks on Anatolia competing for power against Ottomans. For example while Mehmet the conqueror was on siege of Constantinople, Turksih Karaman Beyligi of Konya was waiting for a crusader army from the west to attack Ottomans from the east. Again Safavid in Iran was an other Turkish state who was in alliance against Ottomans. And Ottomans have never forgotten the disaster against Turkic Timur in 1402. Many Turkish troops belonging to beylik conquered by Ottomans have changed their sides and fought against Ottomans. And the Empire was just about collapsing.

This is a very short summary. But to control Anatolia, to control the army against a war Safavids or in the future against Mameluks (an other Turkic state in Egypt) sultans gave more importance to Jannissaries in the army. The importance of them was not that much before 15th century. Converted Christians has been used in the Jannissaries corps until 17th century. And apart from them the rest of the army was ethnically Turk.  

No ..... Ottoman Empire was definetely an Islamic Empire.

This is wrong. Only Jannissary corps were forming by converted Christians especially between 15th -17th centuries, not the army.

This is wrong. In fact majority in navy was Italian. Turkish troops of sipahi were also used widely in navy as today's marines. Naval vocabulary in Turkish language is Italian not Greek.

Originally posted by HulaguHan Governments were consisted of Greek with some Serbs and some Albanians. .

You are putting too much importance to Greeks in the Empire. In fact Greeks and Armenians were not played an important role in the administrative level. Administrative levels again mostly in 15th-17th centuries have been selected from Balkan. They were mainly Serbs and Albanians. It was the same in the Jannissary troops. Jannissaries were raised according to Bektashi discipline and culture which is a pure Turkish culture.

Logic came back....

Alparslan, Janissaries is backbone of the army. What else do we have? Bashibozuks? Sipahis? Do you count them as a significant force? And what does islamic empire mean? Please show me what did Ottomans do for islam? Did they force people to convert? Did they govern the empire with the rules of Quran? Do you know what does Mecelle mean? Did you know that Government system was a form of the late Romans? Off course in the last years, religion took power, no doubt.

And History of Naima mentions this: They took robbers, burglars , Turks and kurds to the janissary divisions, and that is time the divisions got worse. It was something like that, I am sorry I do not know the exact phrases. I like Ottoman Empire, but I can not count it as a Turkish and an islamic empire. Likewise I can not count Late Seljuk Empire in the times of Sanjar as a Turkish Empire.

Naval force sure contained Italians such as Ali Pasha, the only survivor of Lepanto. But for example major Naval commander was Barbarossa, who was a Greek from Mytiliene. PLease do not tell me he was Albanian or Turkish. He was a son of a retired Janissary and a widow of a Greek priest. Lord Kinross mentions about it in Ottoman Times. When have we conquered Italian lands BTW. But I did not know that Naval vocabulary was Italian, if you can give me sources about this issue, that would be perfect, thanks a lot.

Spartakus, Ibrahim Pasha of Parga is Greek. Mehmet Sokullu is Serb. Koprulu Family is Albanian. As Alparslan mentioned, Ottoman did not want Turks to intervene the empire business mainly because of the disaster of Ankara 1402. If you insist, I will try to pick more Grand Viziers, OK? PLease just request.

Well thanks a lot for the Orthodox church of Greece, crusader historians of Germanic world and the Turko-Islamist fanatics of Turkey, Ottomans are rejected from European history by the help of all of the fractions.

Yes mate, we invented all of the olive oil foods. We invented the hamam, Romans stole it from us by inventing the time machine, they established Roman bath. Turkish Arts Music is the actual source of Roman Rituals. Again they stole that by their time machine. Janissary system is again stolen from us, they founded legionary. We were a Seriat Empire, governed by Qoran like the Umayyads, all of the Emperors were hadji encircling the Kabe 70 times not 7 times.

Guys do not worry, Ottomans are not the inheritors of Romans. Janissaries was a small fraction and a factor of Ottoman Empire. They were nothing. They always spoiled while fighting and Turkish Bashibozukh came and helped them. Romans stole this idea from Ottomans too again with that damn time machine and they invented legionarry system.

We converted the Greeks and Serbs to islam by force, look at Spartakus he is in the friday namaz now and will be back soon, do not worry.

I understand the Turks OK, Europe rejects them so they embrace islamism, nationalism, cheuvenism, but I really can not understand the Euro guys, what will happen if they accept Ottomans as part of Europe. BTW do not think I am dying to be western like Azimuth mentioned. I do not think I am a German or whatever, just defending what I think. I hope we were defeated in Kosovo by the Serbs, sent out of Europe from the beginning, never conquer Constantinople  and we would not be discussing these issues now. Everybody would be happy.

Spartakus, Alparslan, look guys, everything is fine now.

Dear Hulagu Han,

I am trying to understand you. I did not say something that Ottoman Empire did not have any connections with Romans. I said if there is a successor of Roman Empire it could be Ottoman Empire. It seems like it is a problem for you that Ottomans are rejected from European history. Why is it a problem? To not to be rejected should we deny our identity, our beliefs and declare ourselves as Romans? Sorry but this is very naive. Ottomans were a mix of cultures. Yes. But not only Romans. Anatolian culture, steppes culture, Islamic culture, Christian culture, Jews culture....etc 

You are complaining about historians of Germanic world like me but you are showing Lord Kinross as your source about your knowledge on Barbaros Hayreddin. In fact Barbaros, himself has written something about his life and you can find it in library in Istanbul. You should know it before complaining about this kind of things. His grandfather Abdullah and his father Nurullah Yakup was sipahi and ethically Turk from Karasi - Anatolia then settled to Balkans in Varna after the conquests. His father participated to the conquest of Midilli (Mytiliene) with Mehmet the conqueror as marine foreces to fight in land and settled in the island. He was not even in navy. Bonova village in the island has been given to him as timar. He wrote all of these. He said that his father has married with a women from the island but he is not talking about her ethnicity. Some sources say she was from refugees of Andulus, Spain. But he did not say this so we connot be sure about it. She may be Arabic, Sefarad Jews, Italian or Greek. We do not know. His nick name was given him by forsas (war prisoners used in ships) Barbe rousse meaning red barbe which is not Greek too.     

But you are going to one extreme from another. How can you deny the importance of Islam in the empire? By only looking Janissaries whose numbers were very limited and they have been mostly collected from Christians for only a limited period of time you declared that Ottoman army was not Turk. Even Janissaries were raised according to pure Turkish culture in line with Bektashi-Alevi order. Isn't it Islam? May be it was different than Arabic understanding of Islam it was Islam. They were speaking Turkish, they were raised according to Turkish culture, they fought in the Turkish army so it means that they were Turks. This is the definition of being Turks. I do not believe in racial staff. Are Gokturks and Seljuks were exactly the same people? No. 

If you go that far I can ask you "how do you know that those Christians were not coming from Christian Turkish stocks such as Cumans, Pechenegs, Bulgars who came Balkans much before than Ottomans? 

Janissaries were of course important and they were specially trained and situated at the center of the army with sultan. But Ottoman army was composed by many different troops and units and these are changed during time. Sipahis were also very important, they were the most important cavalary units of Ottoman Empire. All units were completing each others. What about artillary units, humbaracis, serdengectis? Do you think you can win a battle only with Janissaries? My answer is simply no.  

They were thinking that they were doing something for it. But religion became in fact a tool to be used in politics. It was so in every other empire and country. Who was Seyhulislam? He was the biggest religious authority in the Ottoman Empire controling if laws are appropriate with Quran. But if reel politics and Islam contradicted with each others sultans were saying him what to do and what Quran says "in fact"    about it. In addition religion is something that can be interpreted. If there is a difference between Turkish and Arabic way of interpreting it this doesn't mean that Ottomans did not use Quran rules or they are not Islamic. They tried to do it, interpreted according to their own understanding and used it as a political tool. 

So according to you Papacy was not Christian since they were ordering to burn gingers since they were witches. Christians were not practicing this anymore and this is something undebetable in Christianity. Who are the real Christians? You can not easyly compare today and past. Values are so different. Societies and cultures are dynamic and changing.

Mecelle is something related with 19th century. Religion took power especially sunni Islam since Ottomans wanted to use the title Caliph as a political tool. After than we understood that using religion in politics is giving harm to ourselves especially culturally, serves nothing anymore Turkey became a laik country. From western point of view (Germanic) they saw that we have imitating west. No. But if you compare Ottoman E. and Turkey can you say that they are not related? No you cannot. So while doing your comparaisons please try to be more careful and take the time and change effects on societies.   

So you are claiming that Ottoman Empire was in fact Roman Empire and a Christian state.

Sorry but this is not true.  

Morea, Agean islands, Cyprus had been conquered from Italians. Even Constantinople was defending by Italian troops (best units) against Turks. It is well known facts that some grand vezirs are not Turk ethnically but they were Serbs or Albanians or sometimes they are from Caucasia. But what is the importance of this? They were Turks in fact. It is also known that some sultans' mothers were Greek in origine. But this doesn't make him Greek. 

Why do you have such opsession? Is it so important to become a part of European history? In fact East Rome was not accepted in Europe. In addition to this Turks and Ottomans belong to a different culture and past from Europe. Why will we struggle to change this?

Who has invented olive oil?   I quess it was Phonecians. So what? We did not invent TV so does it mean that we are not Turk but American?

There is also Fin hamam too. Can there be a cultural relation of Ural-Altaic culture? If no what was the relation of Fins and Roman bath? 

Did you ever study on music? What do you know about oriental music? Did you ever listen a Roman music? If yes please send methe notes or tell me how I can find them.

Turks themselves were fighting as legionaires. For example Memluks which was meaning white slaves were nothing more that Turkish legionaires. Is it so difficult to invent a legionaire system in 14th century? Were Janissaries same with Roman legions?  

Do you want to show that Ottomans were not an Islamic state? Should we force them according to Islam?

This is our interpretation of Islam, we are not forcing people to convert OK? I think Arabs were doing this except first stage of Islam. Otherwise you would not see any Assyrians, Jews, Caldeans, Kipthi etc today after 1500 years.....

Please continue to defend what you think. But they can not accept Ottomans as part of Europe since you want it. Did they ask other Turks about the issue? In fact we are not accepting of being a part of Europe. The matter is not only related with them.  

Alparslan,

I just want to withdraw, but let me mention some things beceuse I am misunderstood, then let me leave this.

First: I did not want to say Mecelle was always our laws. And I have never said we crossed Qoran or other religious books. I my self do not try to cross Qoran for instance, I do not eat pork. I know someone banned it because it is unhealthy. I sometimes consult that book, but that may not make me islamic man, cause I have never been a mosque in my life, like none of the Ottoman Emperors went to Mekka to become a Hadji.

Second: I did not say oriental music has nothing to do with Turkish Arts Music but truth is Roman Empire of those days is Oriental itself and this is coming from rituals. Orient does not mean Islam. Orhodoxs Christianity is oriental too. We also have rituals now, Ahmet Ozhan is the name of the famous guy, right? Noone in islamic world have rituals, and they consider us as Infidels. Ask about Sufism to arabs...

Third: I have never said Ottoman Empire was Christian, than god it never was. Christianity in those days were much more backwards than anything else in the world. No, thank God it was not. Hit the wood.

Four: I have never said Ottoman Empire belongs to one nation completely, actually what I tried to mean was that. Because I feel myself to own Byzantine Empire likewise the Ottoman Empire because they were the empires of the country I live in (right now I am temprarily in USA). Romans in the beginning dominated by Latins. Heraclius came, Greeks dominated. Now after Mehmet II, Turks dominated it. It is undoubtful, because we owned their lands. 

Five: The actual Byzantine elit forces in the last years are Varangians, some type of Norseman formed by Danes, English, etc. They were recruited in the times of Norman Sicilian-Roman Conflict. I am an enthusiast of both Ottoman and Byzantine Empire histories by Gibbon, Norwich, Inalcik, Kinross, etc... I admire their tradition.

[/QUOTE]

As for the topic, I don't think the Ottomans should be considered as such. Although the Ottomans were gradually pulled into the European sphere of culture (by the early 1600's)
[/QUOTE]

really?

i am sory but i have never heard of such a thing. The ottomans were always who they were - apart from european culture.

also the "Bulgarians being of Turkish origin" - they are mainly from slav and then bulgar (who are turkik - probably from north cent. asia) and tracian    origin

really?

i am sory but i have never heard of such a thing. The ottomans were always who they were - apart from european culture.[/QUOTE]

i have no idea of what you are talking about, please give me some examples.

well since Turk became muslims they are in power that mean we Arabs has nothing to do with your Ignorance.

also you are talking about being advaced and making strange changes and calling that an advancing? cant you see that you are Not Advanced ?

if you want to improve and advance your economy you dont need to be someone else or pretend to be someone els or even be a member of Europian community.

Greece didnt do such changes to become Part of European community.

Because Greece was a European country, and their culture is mostly common. But Turkey is totally in a different position. The people who ruled our country and tried to be Europeans were all servants of some bigger powers. To improve, you should develope your own culture. Westernisation doesnt mean development. We should improve our own culture and advance like some European countries, but by taking their advancements as useful examples to our advancement, not changing our national identity. But as I see the ones who rules us are changing it on purpose...

Uzunoglu, I don't think that enyone is asking you to change your culture, that is impossible.

But you should, if you wish to enter EU, edhere to EU institutions and laws that apply to all countries. Most of them reffer to Human Rights, minority rights, economic reforms and separation of state and military. Some of your state powers will also have to be transfered to EU bodies. E.g. supreme legislative power will be the European court, economic policy will have to be in line with EU directives etc.

In my mind, you won't "lose" your cultural identudy with these reforms, you'll rather improve your conditions of living.

Everything is becoming more clear everyday.

EU has nothing to give us. We can develop our standards ourselves. The best example is the new (!!) Turkish penal code which was supported by EU. This is a clear backward move for Turkish democracy.

Moreover it is an obvious fact that the public opinion in Europe is against Turkey and Turks. Even if Turkey fullfill all negotiations with EU, France and Austria has declared that they will hold a referendum to accept Turkey in EU. It means that we will not be accepted into the EU. In addition to this there is not a guarantee that other states will not hold a referandum for Turkey too, for example Cyprus or Sweden. So instead of making virtual plans for the future in the names of EU, we have to establish our own way as soon as possible.

The best country for future alliance is Russia. After the end of cold war our relations with Russia is developing everyday. We are facing the same dangers and we are completing each others. For Caucasia and Central Asia there would be any power that can compete with Russia-Turkish alliance.  

This is like a nightmare. I do not trust that Europeans will act fairly and honestly for Turkey. We will always be a second class member (if we became a member), and we will always be treated as the second class citizen.

Please people, let's be serious and mention only TRUE historic FACTS not some imaginary fairy-tales!!!!!

The LAST of the Comnenos dynasty was Andronicos Comninos, lived from 1118-1185 and ruled from 1183-1185.

Now Mehmet the Conqueror lived from 1432-1481, so when he ruled would be irrelevant since there is NO WAY that they could have met!!!!

Note that the emperors during his life time were the Paleologos John VII and Constantine XI.
NO Comnenos.

Oh, yes and about the original topic. No the Ottomans have nothing to do in here.
When we say forum_topics.asp?FID=11" target="_self" class="boldLink - Greek, Roman & Mediterranean Civilizations as anyone can tell we are talking BC not 14th century.

Oh, yes and about the original topic. No the Ottomans have nothing to do in here.
When we say Greek, Roman & Mediterranean Civilizations as anyone can tell we are talking BC not 14th century.

Comneni Dynasty governed Roman Empire of Trepizond   after Latins invaded Constantinople .

Like Safavid Turkish Empire, Ghaznawid Turkish Empire are considered as Iranian Empires (and they are), Ottomans are the Turkish Dynasty of  the Roman Empire coming after the Greek Dynasties.

Everybody excepts (including Firdousi) that Ghaznawids are descendants of Sassanids, and Safavids as Iranian Emperors. But people rejects Ottomans from Europe. They consider we stole Constantinople. They think Byzantine Empire was ended in 1453.

But it didn't. If you like it or not, when you conquer a country, you inherit what it has. The depts, the economy, the enemies everything.

Bernard Lewis mentions that the strugles of Romans and Parthians/Sassanids continued with the Ottoman-Safavid struggle. And now Turkey and Iran took the positions.

If you dare to judge Bernard Lewis, I have nothing to say more.

But that is the fact. When Ottomans conquered Eastern Roman Empire, they inherited everything it had. The society, the traditions, the enemies, and most importantly the geostrategical position itself, fighting against 3 fronts (Catholic Europe, Slavic pressure from caucassus and Iran in the east.)

These are not my thoughts, I am an amateur history fan, that' s it. That is why I opposed the Islamic Forum. Many Turkik Dynasties owned Empires belong to other cultures. Safavids, Ghaznawids are Iranian Empires. Ottoman Empire is Roman Empire. What they did was, just continue the business which their predecessor did.

Ottoman Empire was governed by Muslims. Yes Ottoman Empire was Islam oriented but the islam of Ottoman world was highly influenced by Greek Orthodox Church.

I think claiming that Orthodox Christianity is closer to Turkish Islam than Catholic Christianity. Both Orthodoxs Christians and Lets say Ottoman Turkish Muslims did 2-D arts (mosaiqe, miniature) but stood away from sculpture (You know the iconoclasm issues). The rituals of Orthodox Romans created the Turkish Arts Music.

Forget it Rome is not equal to christianity. Rome when founded was pagan. THen changed the religion, became Christian. but east and west divided because they had arguement of the definition of Jesus ( LOL ). Anyway, people understand oriental by Islam. No Orthodox Christianity and Ottoman Islam (Arabs were under Ottoman rule too but their traditions are different than us.) is Oriental.

Eastern Rome again in the givernmental position changed the religion and became muslim.

But if we dig more, we can see that Ottomans brought Persian tradition (BEcause before Anatolian invasion, we invaded Iran.) also. THere was a perfect combination.