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A Question for Greeks

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Modern History
Forum Discription: World History from 1918 to the 21st century.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18903
Printed Date: 29-Mar-2024 at 11:25
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: A Question for Greeks
Posted By: Guests
Subject: A Question for Greeks
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2007 at 13:19
Was there any attempt to change or purify Greek Language in Greece in 20th century?



Replies:
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2007 at 13:58
Yep,there was an attempt.The Katharevousa(Καθαρεύουσα).It was a form of archaic Hellenic ,without the foreign loans of the dimotiki ,the most popular among the common people.That's what i remember right now.

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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 02:56
A Turkish writer who was an opposer to Turkish Language Revolution gives the Greek example of unsuccesful purifying attempt.He says that the  reaction to this attempt was so harsh that  school books containing new-invented words were burnt in town squares.
Is there any truth in his words?


Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 03:15
To tell you the truth ,i do not know whether they burnt books or not, but i do know that it took a long time for the dimotiki to prevail .

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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)


Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 06:18
In -very- short:
 
In ancient Greece there were many different dialects and even variations of the alphabet (Attic, Doric, Aeolic, ArcadoCypriot and many more).
 
Out of the Attic Greek, which was gaining more ground due to it's use in trade where Athenians were prominent, came the Attic "Koine" (common) Greek. This is the language that became the prevailing one after Alexander's conquests.  Some call it "New Testament Greek" because this was the language the New Testament was written and the language that was used for the spread of Christianity (this why it is said so many times that Alexander's conquests and the unification that the Roman empire imposed, were the main factors for the spread of Christianity).
 
From Koine Greek we move to Byzantine or Medieval Greek, which is practically identical to Koine Greek.
 
After the fall of Constantinople, we move to Modern Greek or what we call "Demotike" (popular) Greek. It is the evolution of Koine Greek in a more simplified form, still very close to Koine.
 
Katharevousa or "purified" Greek was a semi-artificial form of Greek that was created as a mixture of Classical Greek and Demotike, in an attempt to purify Greek language from foreign admixtures. It was created after Greece was liberated from the Ottoman empire, around 1830 and was imposed on public administration while the people never adopted it and continued to use Demotike. In 1976 (as it had already fallen into disuse), Katharevousa was formally abolished.
 
So in Greece today, we use the Demotiki dialect, which derives from the Koine, in itsed a descendant of the Attic (Ionian) dialect.
 
In only a few isolated places they speak different dialects, like Tsakonian Doric (a very rare form of Greek), Pontic or Cappadocian Greek as well as Souther Italian Greek, still spoken in a few villages in Calabria and Apulia.
 
 


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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 08:31
Thank you very much.


Posted By: traveler
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 08:53
Well, I want to ask some questions to Greeks.I have not visited Greece yet.I bear no anmosity to Greeks as long as they do not.
* How many years exactly were Greece under the Ottoman rule?
* Are there any turkish words or phrases that everybody understands in Greece?


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 08:56
AFAIK in apulia the greek is closer to the mainstream and is influenced by east roman refugees while the Calabrian 'griko' is archaic and i think Dorian


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 09:12
traveler for your second question you can go to linguistics forum
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12861&PN=1 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12861&PN=1  


Posted By: Neoptolemos
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2007 at 17:38
Originally posted by traveler

* How many years exactly were Greece under the Ottoman rule?
From about 360 years to nearly 500 years, depending on the area.

* Are there any turkish words or phrases that everybody understands in Greece?
See Hadilansende's post and this:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10656&PN=2 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10656&PN=2


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Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2007 at 04:56
Originally posted by Neoptolemos

From about 360 years to nearly 500 years, depending on the area.

 
Some areas were more and others less (eg. Peloponnese was reconquered by Venetians for quite some time in the 18th century). Ionian Islands were never conquered.
 
 


-------------
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2007 at 05:45
or maniEvil%20Smile


Posted By: traveler
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2007 at 10:20
Thanks to hadilansende,Yiannis and Neoptolemos...I found the link you typed here very informative. I have never guessed there might be that many words that turks and greece use in common. I saw on tv a couple times people reciting religious songs in churches. It reminded me of some kind of turkish religious songs.The type of music I mean. I wish Greek and Turkish leaders tried to find better ways to get the peoples closer to each other in peaceful ways.


Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 03:29
Originally posted by traveler

  I saw on tv a couple times people reciting religious songs in churches. It reminded me of some kind of turkish religious songs.
 
This is because Turkish traditional music (I don't know how it's called-the Ottoman style) still uses the Byzantine toning system, not the western one (do-re-mi...).
This is almost forgotten now in Greece and is used only by the church to sing their hymns.
 
 


-------------
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2007 at 18:06
Originally posted by Yiannis

 
Ionian Islands were never conquered.
 
How were they ruled then?


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Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2007 at 04:24
They were under Venetian rule, then under French (for a very short while) and then under British. Finally they were allowed to join Greece after a referendum , I think in 1864.

-------------
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin



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