Pictures of Bulgar Warriors
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Historical Pictures Gallery
Forum Discription: Post and discuss images of historical places, arts and maps...
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18290
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 18:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Pictures of Bulgar Warriors
Posted By: Liudovik_Nemski
Subject: Pictures of Bulgar Warriors
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 02:34
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We've talked much about the Bulgars and Danube Bulgaria here in the Medieval Forum but i never noticed someone posting pics of the warriors themselves.I've collected some images to show you: A high class Bulgar warrior probably a boil(noble):  Woman warriors from Volga Bulgaria:   I don't know if the Danube Bulgars allowed women to be soldiers but the Bulgars on the Volga have done it  ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: NikeBG
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 03:00
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About the women soldiers - Khan Krum is reported to have armed the women as well, when he defeated Emperor Nikeforus! ;)
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Posted By: Tar Szerénd
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 04:16
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Menumorout posted pics about bulgarian riders of the 8-11. Century into the Hist. Pics. topic.
I love girls in uniform. :-)))
TSZ |
Posted By: Tar Szerénd
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 04:19
| The warrior has a Muzsi dish style armour(10.cent), but a russian style 11-14. Cent. helmet, mameluk shield, 14-17. cent. arrow quvier. |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 13:09
I post them again here (they are graffiti on rocks at Pliska and Preslav:   -------------  |
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2007 at 01:34
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Very Interesting! I had no idea that Bulgar Warrior Chicks were so Sexy! Do you have any more pictures of the Noble Bulgar Warriors and Warrior Women Liudovik?  ------------- |
Posted By: Liudovik_Nemski
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 13:18
Yes but what i meant was that we don't know if women were regular soldiers.During pagan times they were allowed to become priests together with the men but we have no proof about warriors 
I have but the first ones in my upper post are better I post them as links because they're so huge.http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/Liudovik/WW5.jpg - http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/Liudovik/WW5.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/Liudovik/WW4.jpg - http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/Liudovik/WW4.jpg The usual warriors looked like this...  I don't know if they used maces as weapons but the rest is accurate. -------------
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Posted By: Liudovik_Nemski
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 02:31
Hunters in the steppes: In a forest camp:  -------------
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Posted By: Tar Szerénd
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 03:44
| Wow:-) |
Posted By: TheMysticNomad
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 04:51
Great pics!
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Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 07:16
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Hello, Fantastic Pictures everyone! 
Gargoyle does not know much about the Medieval History of Bulgaria and Bulgars... so it is Very Interesting to see what His Ancestors may have worn in Battle! I was just wondering... what is the symbol on the flag in this picture?
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Posted By: Tar Szerénd
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 13:31
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I don't know...This is a work after the victorious prince from one of the golden carafe of the Nagyszentmiklós-treasure. The original has just a empty flag.
TSZ
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Posted By: NikeBG
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2007 at 14:46
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The IYI is usually considered to be the sign of the house of Dulo, the first and possibly greatest ruling dynasty in Early Medieval Bulgaria. Of course, there's also a theory that it represents Tangra, presumed to be the Bulgar god. The first thesis is most widely accepted.
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Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2007 at 05:03
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Thankyou both NikeBG and Tar Szerénd, Now this is going to sound like a stupid question... but I assure you it is a serious one! Can I ask whether there is any evidence to suggest that Tatoos were a part of Bulgar Culture? Did the Ancient Bulgar Warriors Tatoo themselves? I'm just Curious...
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Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2007 at 08:34
If this flag is related with the facts I can say that this is a Salur or Chepni Tamga. Tamga simply means symbol in Turkish. Salur and Chepni are two of 24 tribes of Oghuzs.
http://www.tcoletribalrugs.com/article48WrightTamga.html - http://www.tcoletribalrugs.com/article48WrightTamga.html
Onogurs in Bulgaria were Oguzs as well. R-Z voice changes are very frequent in Turkish. Onogur is the same with Onoguz which means Ten Oguz. It means that they were forming an alliances consisting of 10 tribes of Oghuzs. (As in the case of Dokuz Oghuz which means Nine Oghuz, or Sekiz Oghuz, or Uc Ok etc. ).
I wonder if this flag is reflecting the truths or this is only a chance.
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Posted By: Seljuk
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2007 at 09:17
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I'll go with the second theory NikeBG It looks nearly exactly like the tamgha of Kayi tribe (founding tribe of ottomans) so i wouldnt be surprised if it represents Tengri. http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3457/tamghavz2.jpg - http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3457/tamghavz2.jpg ------------- 
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Posted By: NikeBG
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 06:41
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You can guess whatever you prefer, Seljuk, I'm just saying that most historians suggest the first one. Gargoyle, AFAIK, the Bulgars didn't tattoo themselves. But that's only as far as I know. However, IIRC, the Thracians did tattoo themselves (and also dye their hair). Btw, here's a picture, which I scanned from Valeri Yotov's archaeological reference book "The weaponry and armament from the Bulgarian Middle Ages (VII-XI c.)"  Reconstruction of a full set of weaponry and armament of an Old-Bulgar warrior by the findings in a grave in the necropolis near Krasen, the Ruse region (artist A. Vuchkov) Another interesting picture, which I saw and scanned is this one:  A drawing on a bone cornicle. Settlement near Harlec, Vratsa region. Vikings? ------------- |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 07:35
Or "lodki ednodruvki" used by slavs. ------------- . |
Posted By: NikeBG
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 07:40
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Monoxiles? Yes, maybe. But the way those shields are positioned reminds me very much of the drawing of Viking boats. It's an interesting picture in all cases though... ;)
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Posted By: Tar Szerénd
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2007 at 04:30
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I think they are vikings (kiev rus warriors of Svjatoslav(?), from 970-972:-).
TSZ
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2007 at 08:48
Why not Gots then?  ------------- . |
Posted By: Jagiello
Date Posted: 23-May-2007 at 17:36
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 23-May-2007 at 18:50
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Yeah, put Ichirgu boila Mostich there ------------- . |
Posted By: Krum
Date Posted: 24-May-2007 at 04:05
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From where is that Picture.I have never seen it before. ------------- It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. Plato |
Posted By: Jagiello
Date Posted: 24-May-2007 at 06:40
| I wish i remember where i have it from.I collect pictures and have around 2GB with different historical pictures. |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 25-May-2007 at 07:26
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http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6615&PN=1 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6615&PN=1 I actually posted another one, but it seems that now on the server it is replaced with this picture with the same name. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2007 at 11:19
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Actually, archeologists say the symbol IYI was present among scythians and sarmatians in Eurasia. It's a holy symbol.It's believed to symbolise some kind of uniting power,balanser.It is on rossete from Pliska where it's in the center ,surrounded by symbols of 5 planets,the sun and the moon so it really could be the symbol of Tura(Tangra or whatever name you choose).It could be seen on later early-christian writings,stones and crosses from Bulgaria. |
Posted By: Montreux
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 13:18
Follow the link and you will find over 150 images of Balkan warriors  http://www.bgphoto.net/Photos.aspx?UserId=4586&AlbumId=84750 - http://www.bgphoto.net/Photos.aspx?...6&AlbumId=84750 |
Posted By: Athanasios
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 13:53
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[/QUOTE] That's interesting.The inscription is in Greek-byzantine letters. I can distinguish the name Πέτροc (Peter)
He is khan Asparuch. As i can remember its a modern depiction of him(seeing it in a history magazine) So the Bulgars have adopted katafraktoi units as well. In wich battles were they were used? I can't remember any example. Can you enlighten me? ------------- 
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 14:40
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Neither do I. (I am not familiar with miulitary history though). But I found one review on McGeers book ("Dragon tooth:......") by Birkenmiyer where he says that reid of Nicephorus to Bulgaria was an example of useless of cataphracts in cases when enemy is not willing to fight.
And as far as I understand, if this is true, than Bulgarian tactics wouldn't propose usage of heavy cavalry. Do you mean the right top angle? Why do you think it's cataphract?
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Posted By: Athanasios
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 15:41
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Since i don't wish to log in this site, I can only suppose that you are talking about "Nikephorus I" but i doubt if he had such a heavy cavalry as the katafracts of "Nikephorus II". If you're talking about the second one, i have to tell that i didn't mention any straight campaign in his reign against the bulgars but only that he persuaded Sviatoslav of Kiev to attack bulgaria. Yes, you can only use efficiently katafracts in the plains, not in narrow passages or mountainous areas . Actually i was talking about te picture below. The rider seems to have coloured plumes of horse hair in his helmet and shoulders, something that in the Byzantine army was used to distinguish the "vanda - bandum" (something like a silt subdivision).They used different colors to symbolize each one. I also thought that the bulgarian helmets had two feathers on their top( i suppose a turanic influence) . 
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2007 at 15:58
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Well, I just quickly listed the review. I will check which Niceforus they were writing about. Can one use any type of cavalry in mountainous area? ------------- . |
Posted By: Liudovik_Nemski
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2007 at 05:51
Burdokva said that the Bulgar heavy cavalry looked simmilar to them. In other words something like this:  Not too heavy armor allowing greater maneuvering. -------------
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Posted By: Burdokva
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 09:25
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These two pictures are promo excerpts from the illustrated encyclopedia "Great battles and struggles of the Medieval Bulgarians" (kinda Bulgarian Osprey). The kataphract is from the second part of the Xth century, presumably during the reign of Basil II (Osprey's "Byzantine Armies 800-1018" gives a similar impression of a Xth century kataphract). The infantrymen from the second picture are from the second part of the IXth-early Xth century. Later I'll make some scans of the heavy cavalry, early and late Medieval era (it shows pretty clear how armor and weapons evolved in the Balkans during the period).
Osprey's "Byzantine Armies 1181-1453" has some great illustrations of Bulgarian medieval warriors (one strangely listed as Serb), I sugest you check it out. And to avoid "Hungary and the Fall of Eastern Europe", at least all the text and illustrations relating to Bulgaria... ------------- Unity makes Strenght |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2007 at 17:18
could you please tell me which one? i've been puzzeled by the plate myself, so i was not wrong
the book in general is crap, not just the part on Bulgaria... ------------- |
Posted By: Burdokva
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 04:52
Sure, it's "1.Serbian auxiliary, 14th century", Plate E1. On page 24 there is a picture of Bulgarian and Serbian cavalrymen. It is based on contemporary manuscripts (the Bulgarian rider, I think, is from the XIVth century translation of the Manasses Cosex, curently in the London museum). Comparsion between the picture and the plate shows pretty clearly that E1 is actually based on the Bulgarian armor and equipment, only with a different qiuver (the qiuver, interestingly, is given to the Bulgarian auxiliary on foor at the bottom of the plate, E2). I suppose it is an editors mistake. Here's a comparsion I've made: 
I've scanned a few pictures from the Bulgarian encyclopedia, though they need some cleaning with Photoshop, so I'll post them later. Hope you'll be interested in the vague topic of Medieval Balkan arms and armor!
EDIT: Scans cleaned up and uploaded, as promised. 1.Bulgar cavalryman and Slav warrior, c.VIIth century: http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BulgarandSlavWarriorsVIIc.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BulgarandSlavWarriorsVIIc.jpg 2.Bulgar cavalryman, c. VII-VIIIth century: http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BulgarWarriorVII-VIIIc.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BulgarWarriorVII-VIIIc.jpg Note both Bulgar warriors' (one in scale and one in chainmail) armament is heavily Eastern-influenced. 3.The Battle of Versinikia, 813 http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BattleofVersinikia813.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BattleofVersinikia813.jpg The byzantine chronicler Theophanes the Confessor states that Khan Krum had assembled an 30 000 strong army "clad in armor, and their horses too". The latter suggest that the Bulgarians had heavy armored cavalry regiments (somewhat obvious, considering that the khan was able to fully arm 30 000 men). 4. Tsar Simeon I The Great at Constantinopol, c.913-917 http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/TsarSimeonIatConstantinopole917.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/TsarSimeonIatConstantinopole917.jpg Still some Eastern-influence, though a lot more subtle, and an overall Christian look to the army. By the early Xth century Bulgaria had already been a Christian state for more than 50 years. 4.The Battle at river Skafida, 1304: http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/?action=view¤t=BattleatRiverSkafida1304.jpg - http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/?action=view¤t=BattleatRiverSkafida1304.jpg 5. The Battle of Rusokastro, 1332: http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BattleofRusokastro1332.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/BattleofRusokastro1332.jpg 6.Siege of Turnovo, 1393: http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/SiegeofTurnovo1393.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/SiegeofTurnovo1393.jpg XIII-XIVth century Balkan armors were lighter than their Western counterpats, both because the waning economical power of the Balkan states and the nature of warfare in the penninsula. Note how different the warriors look than the Eastern-influnced cavalry from the VIth century. Also Osprey's impression of a XIII-XIVth century Bulgarian footman, based on a fresco from the Zemen monastery (seen it myself, the illustration is very nice in my oppinion): http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/Peshak.jpg - http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g161/Vruk/History/Bulgarian/Peshak.jpg Also an article (in Bulgarian) on the military might and the size of the army during the FIrst Tzardom: http://liternet.bg/publish8/ivelin_ivanov/vyprosa.htm - http://liternet.bg/publish8/ivelin_ivanov/vyprosa.htm Hope the post was usefull and informative! ------------- Unity makes Strenght |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2007 at 16:15
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thanks a lot, very nice pics and informative post of yours. yes the osprey book on late byzantine military is not bad overall, thats just a minor mistake. but the book medieval hungary etc is really bad, i also heard it from a Serbian about the information and plates with Serbian military.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2007 at 08:35
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@ member_profile.asp?PF=3765&FID=31 - Menumorut you sure that the writing on the wall is bulgarian or slavonic? it seems like medieval greeks, i can see the name peter ΠΕΤΡΟC and several other words in greek. ------------- |
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2007 at 09:13
| http://www.allempires.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=4953&FID=31 - Liudovik_Nemski , very beautiful pictures. |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2007 at 10:14
I sayed nothing about the inscription, maybe another forumers. I just copied the image from a Bulgarian review, Arheologia Bulgarica, without noting their legend. The grafittis are from the pagan period and the writing in Slav language was possible only after the invention of the Kirillic alphabet, in 9th century. Until then, the Bulgar used Greek in the few inscriptions they left. Look what I found on Internet: III. The legacy of Pliska 11. Inscriptions Pliska contains the highest number of the so called Proto-Bulgarian inscriptions – various texts cut into stone, written in Greek during the first half of the IX c. [26] Most frequently, locally found antique columns or columns brought after the military campaigns of khan Krum from Thracia were used for that purpose. No large inscription similar to the chronicle-type inscriptions of khan Krum or the building inscriptions of khan Omurtag has been found in Pliska itself, so far. The initial position of the Pliska’s columns is not know with certainty. It has been suggested that they were erected around the Palace and the Palace square. 42 inscriptions have been found in Pliska so far. Another 15 come from the villages in its immediate neighbourhood and, save for those at Madara, were probably removed from the Pliska’s ruins as well. Regardless of the statements of some researchers that the Proto-Bulgarians had their own runic script, brought from Asia, not one such inscription has been found so far in Pliska. The inscriptions in Cyrillic are few. Two short epitaphs from the Large Basilica, the first one – accompanied by a parallel text in Greek, and one inscription on the handle of a clay vessel are the only complete texts. [27] Similar is the situation with the inscriptions in Greek. Save for the bilingual inscription from the Large Basilica, there is one epitaph-criptogram from the end of the X – the beginning of the XI c. [28] as well as several short inscriptions, some of them – with unclear meaning. http://www.kroraina.com/pliska/t/pl_3_11.html - http://www.kroraina.com/pliska/t/pl_3_11.html Look an inscription from khan Krum: http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=krumte8.jpg">  ------------- |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2007 at 14:17
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They actuallly left rather many inscription written with runic alphabeth.
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Posted By: Athanasios
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2007 at 08:13
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The initial position of the Pliska’s columns is not know with certainty. It has been suggested that they were erected around the Palace and the Palace square
From wich palace were they erected?
Large Basilica
Is it a church? Were is it located?
Most frequently, locally found antique columns or columns brought after the military campaigns of khan Krum from Thracia were used for that purpose.
So, in those Thracian regions the Greek alphabet was used as well.
It would be nice to see some elements of the runic alphabet sometime in this or in an other topic. I have no idea how they looked like.
as well as several short inscriptions, some of them – with unclear meaning.
Like this of Krum's... I can't figure out a single word  . It's like the code meanings that ancient Greeks used... Why did he use an inscription like this? To be honnest i neither see the usage of it nor i believe that it has to do with Krum.... -------------
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2007 at 12:06
http://kroraina.com/pb_lang/index.html ------------- . |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2007 at 12:19
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In Romania, in Southern Dobrudja (so, close to the areas of Pliska and Preslav) there is a 9-10th century rupestrain monastery wehere grafitti with runic inscriptions and images like those at Pliska are:
http://www.arhiepiscopiatomisului.ro/istoric/2_istoric_crestin_cu_specif_loc/1bisericrup_murfatlar.html"> 
It seems that those runs are of Wikings, because images of clear Viking origin are scratched too: http://www.patzinakia.ro/StudiaPatzinaka/Agrig-VikingisauRusi.htm">  
Click on images too go to the originar web pages. You can also download a screen saver with photos inside the rupestrian hermitages: http://www.descopera.ro/forcedownload.php?tt_news=505 - http://www.descopera.ro/forcedownload.php?tt_news=505 ------------- |
Posted By: ILIYAN2009
Date Posted: 16-Apr-2009 at 23:52
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Very good !
You guys deserve a reward for preserving the Bulgarian culture here in this forum !
Carry on like that.
We Bulgarian we are lions and we should show to the world our brave history
There is a photo of Khan Krum from me.
Bye !
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