Alcohol, It's Discovery and Ramifications
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Discription: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18005
Printed Date: 29-Apr-2024 at 02:56
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Topic: Alcohol, It's Discovery and Ramifications
Posted By: Brian J Checco
Subject: Alcohol, It's Discovery and Ramifications
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 00:51
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Alcohol: Demon to some, a glimpse of God's grace to others. What's it
really like? Many ancient religions included alcohol in it's mysteries
(Mithraism, Judeao-Christian religion, Greek, Roman, Celtic,
Germannic... etc), and many great artists and inventors and warriors
and statesmen and soldiers in Western Civilization have been die-hard
drinkers. I'll name a notable few: Winston Churchill: The man won the Battle of Britain, coached the UK through it's second World War, and invented the Churchill Martini. He once famously said, "I've taken more from alcohol than alcohol has ever taken from me." Samuel Adams: One of the Framers of the American Constitution. He has a beer named after him today. As an aside, many of the Framers brewed their own beer or ales on their estates, and Thomas Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence while sitting in a tavern in Philadelphia. I have been to this tavern. They still serve Monticello ale, made to the original recipe from the 1770's. Ernest Hemingway: I don't even think anyone needs to say anything about this fellow. Vincent Van Gogh: The man used to get so sloshed on absinthe that he thought cutting off his ear and mailing it to his girlfriend was a good idea. Hell of an artists too, I must say. Lord Byron: (Nominal) Hero of the War for Greek Independence, and one of the greatest lewd poets ever. He helped define the Romantic Era. Frank Sinatra: This guy drank hard, chased women, and hand a large hand in popularizing lounge music. The Rat Pack is still famous for their exploits (both on, and off, stage today). Hob-nobbed with mobsters and politicians alike. John F. Kennedy: Anybody who doesn't think ol' Jack didn't like a drink needs to re-read his histories. Franklin Delano Roosevelt: Repealed prohibition (and then proceded to mix the nations first legal cocktail during his evening address, drinking it live and on the air). He re-stimulated the failing American economy with his New Deal, and helped the Allies to victory in WWII. Note that this is a two part question: What are the ramifications throughout history of alcohol use (and abuse)? What great people can you think of who loved? What great people can you think of who never touched the stuff? Cheers (literally!) |
Replies:
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 06:22
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Winston Churchill: The man won the Battle of Britain, coached the UK through it's second World War,
And was loaded most of the time.  ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 07:13
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Here's one for you: Alexander the Great. The man was brilliant, yet
some of his greatest follies occurred after the huge drinking binges he
would go on. It was after one such drinking binge that the general's
mind became corrupted with paranoia and he made the decision to have
Parmenion killed, along with the 6,000 loyal Macedonian soldiers
serving under him. Drinking has the power to corrupt individuals, but it also has the power to facilitate constructive social engagements and friendships. The dinners hosted by the 1st-2nd century AD Roman Emperors were often ways of ensuring social harmony by inviting the most important Romans to dinner and making them feel like welcome members of the Emperor's high society. Alcohol, naturally, played its role in allowing people to loosen up and enjoy eachothers' company. Alcohol can be beneficial or harmful, both at an individual level and across society as a whole. For individuals and societies which abuse alcohol, it becomes a source of escapism, violence and waste. For those who use it as a means to build social ties and relax, it becomes a beneficial contributor to allowing people to mix and build relationships. ------------- |
Posted By: Brian J Checco
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 11:00
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Well, as can be seen, some cultures are obviously more drinking
oriented than others. Alcohol in Western Europe, while sometimes
abused, is a very integral part of most cultures' diets. Germans have
their bier und jagermeister, und wein, the french drink
wines and liqueurs with most every meal (traditionally, anyway, and I
know I do every time I'm in France), the Italians and Spanish also
drink a lot of wine and cordials, the English their ales, In Wales and
Poland they still drink mead, Ireland and Scotland have their whiskeys.
That's not to say people from these countries don't drink other things,
of course, but those are their native drinks for the most part. That said, Gin and Tonics helped conquer the British Empire nearly as much as Clive or Wellington. The government issued quinine to help the Brits stave off malaria in tropical regions, but the tonic itself tasted so bad that nearly every soldier, administrator, banker, clerk, general, etc. mixed it with gin. That said, some cultures, like many Islamic nations, don't have a strong drinking culture. I hear many of them drink coffee instead, though I'm still doing research into the subject. Cheers. |
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 13:01
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I do not believe FDR helped revive the American economy. It would've gotten to it's feet on its own without his reforms. Some say the economy did so well because of it's war economy ------------- |
Posted By: Brian J Checco
Date Posted: 21-Feb-2007 at 20:53
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FDR declared the war... And started the New Deal. That's like saying
Germany would have gotten back to it's feet anyway without Hitler... you can't possibly know that. But that's a divergent, nit-picky point. The thread is about the cultural and societal ramifications of alcohol use, as well as famous alcohol-lovers. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 11:15
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i heard somewere that in the dark ages ale was a lot more safe to drink than water. as water sources where sometimes contaminated especially in the big cities. |
Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 11:56
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The average European drank several litres of alcohol (usually light wine or beer) a day, mixed with water, as clean water sources were often not available, and so drinking alcohol mixed with water was the only safe option. As a consequence though, most people were "loaded" 24/7, until around the 18th century, when better sewage systems combined with the appearance of coffee as a social drink changed that. Some historians actually believe that the replacement of alcohol with coffee as a social drink has been instrumental in the launching of the French Revolution: after all it did start in a coffee house and coffee does make one very talkative while sober.
So, in some ways, alcohol can be seen as having played a conservative role in world history, keeping the population sluggish and befuddled and unable to organize large-scale social revolts. ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi 
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Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 22-Feb-2007 at 12:28
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To alcohol the cause of and solution to all of life's problems. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Brian J Checco
Date Posted: 23-Feb-2007 at 19:53
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Anyone know anything about Dionysian drinking rights? |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2007 at 18:03
I had always wondered how medieval people dealt with the issue of water supply. No doubt some still had access to working aquaducts, though as the population reverted from urban to rural during the decline of Rome this meant that water supplies were no longer a matter of centralised supply to urban centres. Decebal, do you have any good online sources on the drinking (alcohol or otherwise) habits of medieval people? I have not encountered such a study in my readings. Also, do you know how the alcohol conumption of medieval people compared to those living in the classical world? ------------- |
Posted By: Dan Carkner
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2007 at 20:30
| Isn't it true that Egypt was a huge centre of beermaking before the Islamic conquest? |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2007 at 20:39
Absolutely, not only that it was also the place where beer was first invented. The Nile provided an excellant basis for the farming of barley and the brewing of beer. ------------- |
Posted By: Brian J Checco
Date Posted: 25-Feb-2007 at 19:11
| Why is Islamic culture so anti-alcohol, anyway? For an Abrahamic religion (both of the others have a heavy focus on alcohol in their mysteries), it seems a huge break from the norm. Why did they develop their sober beliefs? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 16:44
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I believe it is part of their religion. The Koran states that Allah has forbid alcohol as "it does you more harm than good" - something like that. I presume it is almost considered a noisome drug. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 19:06
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Nevermind, wrong topic. EDIT. |
Posted By: Siege Tower
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2007 at 15:37
he was probablly drunk when he said this line.  ------------- |
Posted By: Goban
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2007 at 23:28
It was not the Egyptians who invented beer... We've found beer recipes 9,000 years old (well inferred from residue analysis)...
Many anthropologists believe that the making of beer predates agriculture, and may actually be the cause of it...
 Well, there is some dispute over the "beer or bread" controversy... It would be interesting to see how pre-pottery neolithic peoples brewed their beer. I've read a few papers on it. I may have to do some experimentation on my own...  ------------- The sharpest spoon in the drawer. |
Posted By: Kaysaar
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 19:39
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Alcohol also has interesting socio-linguistic affects. Most people can speak a foreign language better after a few drinks than stone-sober. This may stem from the fact that alcohol tends to loosen people up and remove their self-doubts, but it's still an interesting phenomenon. I witnessed this firsthand while studying in Spain, as well as experienced it. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 22:12
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Not alcohol in general, but wine in particular, have been considered "sacred" for a long time in the Catholic cultures, because of the mass. That's something very curious, indeed. Than an alcoholic drink could be associated to a religion |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2007 at 06:15
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Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was a heavy drinker. I think he died because of it. this is what he said "I've got to drink: my mind keeps on working hard and fast to the point of suffering. I have to slow it down to rest it at times" ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |