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Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet

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Topic: Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet
Posted By: Hellios
Subject: Jalaleddin Rumi - Persian Seljuk Poet
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 17:25
 
Jalaleddin Rumi, 13th c. Persian poet who lived most of his life & produced his works under the Seljuk Empire.  After his death, his followers founded the Mevlevi Order, better known as the Whirling Dervishes.
 
Short (1 min) clip with English translation of poetry by Jalaloddin Rumi set to traditional instruments:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEvNCln4eg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEvNCln4eg
 
Whirling Dervishes:
 
 



Replies:
Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 17:31
One of his poems was on the subway train 5 here in nyc not too long ago. Ive heard about him and he seems to have been a great spiritual leader and poet too.

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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao


Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:20
I always wondered how you can distinct ones ethnicity from that periode and region.

just curious both Persian & turks had arabfied or persian names.

So how can you tell.

Looking at pictures will tell you so much most of Ca is of Turko/persian stock.

He doesn't look like any modernday persian or someone from CA

He looks like well a Man from modernday Turkey

so how can we know



btw Saying his poems were in persian doesn't proove jack persian was the writtin language in that time. the accademic language just like Latin in europe


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:30
He was a "muslim", that's how he saw it, he wasn't into nationalism, the guy was loyal to the Seljuk State and lived in their capitol, no need for a ethno-war.    

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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:33
Because he was from Balkh, and actually, he was above religion too.

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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:35
above religion? i'm afraid I don't follow

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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:37
He said as much, I have this cool banner on my laptop, I will pst it when I'm back home, and you will see.

He is above ideology and sects.

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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:41
Above religion?

He was devoutly religous and a humanist.

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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:43
Back to the ethno thingy it's not about him but in general I mean

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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:50
Well, if you read his poems, the translations are not as powerful and they lose a lot of interpretative dimension. They ofetn have double meanings against religion, governemnt, sects and other institutions, but they are not direct enough that he could be apprehended for them.

Sa'adi and Hafez are the same in this sense.

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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:51
PS, forget the ethnic crap, it has already been discussed to death in another thread.

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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 18:57
Okay can you mabey link it I want to read it (liek you said don't want another flame war at least not one on my account)

"ne olursan ol yine gel" mevlana(celalatin rumi)

come it doesn't mather what you are(kind of person) still come


"Ya olduğun gibi grn, ya grndğn gibi ol " Apeare as you are or Be as you apeare.

these are the most famous quotes of him in Turkey



verry good onesThumbs Up


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2006 at 23:17
Originally posted by Zagros

Because he was from Balkh,
 
Yes, that & his native tongue indicate a Persian heritage.
 
"When the Mongols invaded Central Asia, Rumi's father set out westwards with his whole family and a group of disciples. On the road, Rumi encountered one of the most famous Persian poets, Attar, in the city of Nishapur, located in what is now the Iranian province of Khorasan. This meeting had a deep impact on the 18-year-old Rumi's thoughts, which later on became inspirations for his works."
 
"From Nishapur, they set out for Baghdad, meeting many of the scholars and Sufis of the city. From there they went to the Hejaz and performed the pilgrimage at Mecca. It was after these journeys that (most likely as a result of the invitation of Allah ud-Din Key-Qobad, ruler of Anatolia) they came to Asia Minor & finally settled in Konya (Anatolia) within the westernmost territories of Seljuk Empire."
 
The rest of the story is even more interesting. 


Posted By: Huncuk
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 08:47

Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi is celarly not persian,he was a Turk.He wrote Turkish and Farsi,this because of the language of science was Farsi in Seljuks-Ottomans.

 

Well,in Mongol İnvasiın,The main people of Nishabur and Semergant were Horasan Turks of Turkic Harezmshah Sultanate.WinkI think he was a Yaghma or Karayaghma(Turk tribes).

 
 
But in Nishabur,there also was persians,so he also could be persian.But I don't think he was.Wink


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 09:05

I think his race is not much important. He is effected turks and affected from Turks.(His relation with persians are none, his relation with persiann culture is just using persian langauge, but at that times(Infact until the last days of ottomans), every Turks used persian as a literature langauge.) He was absolutely a poet of Turkish culture.

Infact If there were not Turks, Persians dont even know who is Mevlana.

I should also add, He is far from becoming above religion. Infact persians begin to  interest with Mevlana newly. They just ignored him because of his sunni background. So trying to show mevlana as a part of persian literature is simply comic.



Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 09:08
Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi is celarly not persian,he was a Turk

But in Nishabur,there also was persians,so he also could be persian.


Make up your mind.

Nei-Shapur was a city founded by Persians, so it is hardly surprising there were also Persians there, lol.

NO more on his ethnicity! I mean it.

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Posted By: vulkan02
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 12:40
Yes Rumi was indeed "above" religion, tradition and customs that most humans or other spiritual leaders fashion their whole lives on. To me he is in the same scale as other great leaders such as Buddha, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi etc.

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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28-Dec-2006 at 13:03
Who cares what ethnicity he was, he wrote inspirational and influential works that spread throughout the Islamic world from India to the Balkans under the Ottomans.


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 02:38
Yes Rumi was indeed "above" religion, tradition and customs that most humans or other spiritual leaders fashion their whole lives on. To me he is in the same scale as other great leaders such as Buddha, Guru Nanak, St. Francis of Assisi etc.
 
You can call his works above religion(I will even discuss this.), but absolutely not himself.
 
His followers are called as dervish(a religious tittle.) Sema is a religious praying. He love human beings not because they are human, but because they are created by God. For him, core of love is to love God.All other type of love(loving humans, loving wifes ext.) comes from God.(Infact one of his story, he talk satan love to God.)
 
If this is not a religous, I dont know what is religious too. I should also add, generally known about Mevlana is his famous words, but most of his stories are related with religion, love, satan and God.


Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 08:56
Originally posted by Mortaza

I should also add, He is far from becoming above religion. Infact persians begin to  interest with Mevlana newly. They just ignored him because of his sunni background. So trying to show mevlana as a part of persian literature is simply comic.


100% agree with bolded text.


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Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
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Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:08
I don't want to labeled as a nationalist, but I have to say it: Rumi and all his works belong to Turkish culture.
Originally posted by Bulldog

He was devoutly religous and a humanist.

How's that possible?

    

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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:20
Islam is a humanist religion.

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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:27
anyway i opend a thread about tariqa's in here, dervishes arent they a tarikat too?

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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:36
Mortaza, what did I say? If you want to make ethnic comments you can find the specific thread that discusses his ethnicity.

This is the last warning. Any more on his ethnicity from anyone and there will be an official warning. I promise.

By material fact Molana's (there is no vav) work is Persian literature - it is literature written in Persian - Persian literature. Now you will tell me that black is white? Is it?
    

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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:45
Originally posted by Feanor

I don't want to labeled as a nationalist, but I have to say it: Rumi and all his works belong to Turkish culture.
Originally posted by Bulldog

He was devoutly religous and a humanist.

How's that possible?



Part of Seljuq culture, yes, but not Turkish. Just like Shah Abass's Turkish poems can be considered Safavid/Iranian/Azari/Turkish but not Persian.
    

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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 09:56
This is the last warning. Any more on his ethnicity from anyone and there will be an official warning. I promise.

You said this, than just after this you talked about ethnicty problem.
 
By material fact Molana's (there is no vav) work is Persian literature - it is literature written in Persian - Persian literature. Now you will tell me that black is white? Is it?
when you banned this topic, how can I object you.LOL
 
I think we can easly see who interest with mevlana. Using google would help us much.
 
http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=mevlana&meta - http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=mevlana&meta =
 
1.630.000 result.
 
http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=molana&btnG=Ara&meta - http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=molana&btnG=Ara&meta =
 
69.000 result.
 
Also, I should add, not all of mevlana work is persian, He wroten, persian, Turkish and even greek langauges.
 


Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 17:20
Originally posted by Bulldog

Islam is a humanist religion.

According to Islam, all human beings are slaves of the God.

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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 18:24
Originally posted by Mortaza

This is the last warning. Any more on his ethnicity from anyone and there will be an official warning. I promise.

You said this, than just after this you talkedabout ethnicty problem.

By material fact Molana's (there is no vav) work is Persian literature - it is literature written in Persian - Persian literature. Now you will tell me that black is white? Is it?

when you banned this topic, how can I object you.

I think we can easly see who interest with mevlana. Using google would help usmuch.


http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=mevlana&meta - http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=mevlana&meta =


1.630.000 result.


http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=molana&btnG=Ara&meta - http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&q=molana&btnG=Ara&meta =


69.000 result.


Also, I should add, not all of mevlana work is persian, He wroten, persian, Turkish and even greek langauges.



No genius, his literature isn't his ethnicity. And I was referring to how it should be spellt, if you could read how it is wrtten, you would understand.

Do you care to provide some evidence that Iranians didn't like him until recently because he was Sunni? That is the first time I have heard this, and at the time of Molana, Iran was majority Sunni ...
    
    

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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 29-Dec-2006 at 20:08
Mortaza does have a strong point.

Anyway ethnicity is perceptive, he was what ever he says he was, as he didn't actually say what he was being a humanist to him it didn't matter we'll never really know. If we ask his descendants today he and they are Turks but that is their view, we wrote alot in Persian so to some Persian he is Persian, he was in the capitol of Seljuks so to them he was probobly a Seljuk.

What-ever anybody says the other side will take as a provocation so its best just to state what we know, Mevlana Seljuk Poet.    

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      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine



Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 00:55
It's a pitty, this is a nice thread and again ruined by Ultranationalists.Unhappy so people enough with this stuff and please back to topic.

I like his poems very much specially this one.

Our death is our wedding with eternity.
What is the secret? "God is One."
The sunlight splits when entering the windows of the house.
This multiplicity exists in the cluster of grapes;
It is not in the juice made from the grapes.
For he who is living in the Light of God,
The death of the carnal soul is a blessing.
Regarding him, say neither bad nor good,
For he is gone beyond the good and the bad.
Fix your eyes on God and do not talk about what is invisible,
So that he may place another look in your eyes.
It is in the vision of the physical eyes
That no invisible or secret thing exists.
But when the eye is turned toward the Light of God
What thing could remain hidden under such a Light?
Although all lights emanate from the Divine Light
Don't call all these lights "the Light of God";
It is the eternal light which is the Light of God,
The ephemeral light is an attribute of the body and the flesh.
...Oh God who gives the grace of vision!
The bird of vision is flying towards You with the wings of desire.



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Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 02:25

Mevlana's best piece IMHO;

"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."
 
And his mausoleum in Konya is a popular touristic attraction, while Mevlana, among another poet, Yunus Emre is extremely popular among Turks and has a permanent place in the Turkish culture.

Originally posted by Maziar

It's a pitty, this is a nice thread and again ruined by Ultranationalists.Unhappy

Do you realize this post is uncordial and provoking rather than peaceful?
 
Originally posted by Feanor

According to Islam, all human beings are slaves of the God.
 
The word slave as we use in our ordinary life and the word kul differ from each other. Just because people are kul for God doesn't mean Islam cannot be a humanistic religion...One doesn't need to be atheist or agnostic to be humanist...


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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 30-Dec-2006 at 19:38
Originally posted by Bulldog

Islam is a humanist religion.
 
Bulldog
 
You are right to state that humanism is not alien to islam but there is a huge difference between islamic humanism(A form of religious humansim) and western humanism(Darwinian+Materialism).
 
Islamic humanism=God is ultimate legislator
Western humanism=Man is ultimate legislator


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Posted By: Huncuk
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 04:20
Originally posted by Zagros

Mevlana Jelaleddin Rumi is celarly not persian,he was a Turk

But in Nishabur,there also was persians,so he also could be persian.


Make up your mind.

Nei-Shapur was a city founded by Persians, so it is hardly surprising there were also Persians there, lol.

NO more on his ethnicity! I mean it.
Qaraqurum made by Turks,but in Ghengisid time there were only a few Turks.
 
Understood?


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 15:35
Do you care to provide some evidence that Iranians didn't like him until recently because he was Sunni? That is the first time I have heard this, and at the time of Molana, Iran was majority Sunni ...
 
Easy, you dont know anything about it.
 
Infact you dont know, his most famous words are Infact not wroten by him, but a persian.
 
Again, If you seach persian and turkish interest about mevlana, you can see who is interested with him.
 
"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."
 
These are not wroten by mevlana.
 


Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 18:23

So Murtaza what's the point? You wanna say he was Turkic? maybe, who knows? but can you really enjoy his original works? Even his Turkic poets were in old style with lots of persian and Arabic words.

Shams e Tabrizi and Attar were persians and  and they had the biggest effects in Mevlana, at that time Iran was a sunni country, please do not forget that Shie Islam is  Introduced to Persians by Anatolian Turks.
 
maybe he knew that there would be this kind of problems that he mentioned that  an Asik person does ot belong to any nations or religions.
 
 
 


Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 31-Dec-2006 at 20:01
In all encyclopedies and by all scholars he is considered as Iranian. This is the only fact i will pay attention, so i will ignore all what the other non scholar claim here.

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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 07:24


Mevlana's best piece IMHO;

"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."

You know nothing about Molana Rumi, if you don't read his original poems in Persian language.
 
Baza, baza, har anke hasti, baza
Gar kafar o gabr o bot parasti, baza
In dar gah ma dar gah numidi nist
Sad bar agar tobe shekasti, baza


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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 09:16
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri


Mevlana's best piece IMHO;

"Come, come again, whoever you are, come!
Heathen, fire worshipper or idolatrous, come!
Come even if you broke your penitence a hundred times,
Ours is the portal of hope, come as you are."

You know nothing about Molana Rumi, if you don't read his original poems in Persian language.
 
Baza, baza, har anke hasti, baza
Gar kafar o gabr o bot parasti, baza
In dar gah ma dar gah numidi nist
Sad bar agar tobe shekasti, baza
finally i've found it in Persian, thanks Cyrus biroder!!




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Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı
http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg -


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 01-Jan-2007 at 10:33
So Murtaza what's the point? You wanna say he was Turkic? maybe, who knows?
I dont know his ethnicity(like all), The place he borned is known, not his ethnicity.
 
Secondly, mevlana did not called as persian, but rumi.(Anatolian, rum), so I think he is related with anatolian(turkish) culture, not persian culture..
 
I am not talking about his ethnicity.
 
but can you really enjoy his original works? Even his Turkic poets were in old style with lots of persian and Arabic words.
 
Yes, so when did persian will claim, Kanuni, Fatih or Yavuz? They used persian much, and their turkish is old style with lots of persian and arabic words.
 
maybe he knew that there would be this kind of problems that he mentioned that  an Asik person does ot belong to any nations or religions.
 
As, I said before, he is called as rumi not persi. I think this is enough for his connection. It is absolutely anatolian, nor persian.
 
You know nothing about Molana Rumi, if you don't read his original poems in Persian language.
 
Sorry, I will not learn persian just for reading mevlana.(I can read It turkish)
 
But,
 
Malm-i lniz Hazret-i Mevlnya izafe edilen bir sz vardır: Ne olursan ol gel! Bu sz hakikatinde Eb Sad Ebl-Hayr isimli bir zatın szdr.
 
http://www.yuzaki.com/content/view/59/23/ - http://www.yuzaki.com/content/view/59/23/
 

EB SA'İD-İ EBU'L-HAYR

 

Yine gel

Yine gel

Ne olursan ol,

            Yine gel.

İster kfir ol

ister ateşperest.

            İstersen ol

                        putperest.

Değil dergahımız umutsuzluk dergahı.

Bozsan da yz kere tvbeni

Yine gel.

http://www.doguedebiyati.com/siir/klasik%20fars%20siiri1.htm - http://www.doguedebiyati.com/siir/klasik%20fars%20siiri1.htm  (a web page about persian literature.)
 
Gel, gel, ne olursan ol yine gel, mitsizlik kapısı değildir bizim derghımız, bin kerre tevbeni bozmuş da olsan yine gel rbaisinin Mevln Celaleddin Rmye ait olduğunu iddia etmek galt-ı meşhur kavramının iini btn hacmiyle dolduran bir rnektir. Edebiyat tarihileri, orijinal Frisi syleyişi, Bz bz kelimeleriyle başlayan bu rbainin Mevlnya değil, ondan iki asır nce yaşamış mutasavvıf şair Ebu Said ebul-Hayra ait olduğunu sylyorlar ve bu iddia en azından elli seneden beri ortada durduğu halde hemen herkes (başta Kltr Bakanlığının, Konya Valiliğinin resmi internet siteleri olmak zere) şiiri Mevlnya atfediyor.

http://www.aksiyon.com.tr/detay.php?id=19321 - http://www.aksiyon.com.tr/detay.php?id=19321

 
All of this pages says that, these words dont belong mevlana but Ebu Said ebul-Hayr. So who dont know any thing about mevlana?
 
So you are reading a persian poet, but It does not belong Mevlana.(So as I said before, I dont need to learn persian for mevlana.)
 
 



Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2007 at 07:53
All of this pages says that, these words dont belong mevlana but Ebu Said ebul-Hayr. So who dont know any thing about mevlana?
 
So you are reading a persian poet, but It does not belong Mevlana.(So as I said before, I dont need to learn persian for mevlana.)
 
lol LOL You are right!


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Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2007 at 17:51

Mevlana is representing a culture,which  is not alive in Iran anymore, but you can find a modern version of it in turkey, sometimes I am just surprised to see how some of turks act freely in thier lives, and romances. So Murtaza could be right at this point, which there are not too many peopel in Iran to experience a real sevda. But still I think he was a persian with a mixed culture of central asia.Thanks to safavies Persia lost many beautiful parts of its culture.



Posted By: Seljuk
Date Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 05:10
Is/was there any mevlevi order in Iran?


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Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 15:20
Originally posted by Seljuk

Is/was there any mevlevi order in Iran?
There are small number of Sufies in Iran, they practice Sema, I think it was more popular in mevlana era.Anyhow in sufi practice you may see some influences from Mitraism( Iranic), and Altaic shamanism(Turkic). I gusse after the immigration of Turks to middle east sufi practice got very popular, and after Turks left Iran the sufi parctice lost its position in Persia.


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 05-Jan-2007 at 16:40
There are plenty of Sufis in Iran, they are of shia and sunni descent. there was recently a battle between them and shia fanatics in Qom.

Estimates are 2-5 million practising members in Iran.

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Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2007 at 00:20
Just curious, but is http://www.mevlana800.info/ - this the same guy, or am i confused?

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Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2007 at 06:02
Originally posted by Cywr

Just curious, but is [url=http://www.mevlana800.info/]this['url] the same guy, or am i confused?


it is the same yes and this http://www.mevlana.net/ is a site owned by his relatives!

And there they give answer to whom Mevlana belongs to

The Anatolian Philosopher?
We receive quite a lot of emails at this site and the most often asked question is why we are calling Mevlana an Anatolian philosopher. Although we answer almost all email we receive in person, we thought it may be better if we pre-answer that question here to save time to both parties.

Mevlana wrote almost all of his work in Persian (Farsi or Pharsi, the language of Iran), which was the dominating literary and bureaucracy language of that period. His work is part of the school curriculum in Iran as it is in Turkey. So why not call him Iranian?

When someone is born in a different place than where he became famous, it is usually with the latter place that he is associated with. The famous composer http://gfhandel.org/ - George Frideric http://gfhandel.org/ -
Haendel was born in Halle, Germany as a German citizen, but he became famous in England and almost all of his oratorios are in English. Nowadays he is mostly known as an English composer; while his name is spelled in the Anglicized way as Handel he is http://www.westminster-abbey.org/faq/faq_other.htm - buried at the Westminster Abbey . Nevertheless, we have specifically refrained calling Mevlana Turkish, although Konya had became and stayed a "Turkish" city soon after Mevlana's death.
http://www.mfa.gov.tr/grupc/ca/caa/default.htm - more... Instead, in our home page we say:

Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi, the great Anatolian philosopher, poet and the father of the Mevlevi sect [...] was born on 30 September 1207 in Balkh in present day Afghanistan. He died on 17 December 1273 in Konya in present day Turkey.

Naturally, in 700 years the world's political map changed considerably. Countries that rule large parts of the world cease to exist (e.g. Ottoman Empire) and countries that used to cover extensive land shrink to become normal size countries that we expect nowadays (e.g. Great Britain and Iran). If you read the quote above you will see that we use the term "present day" next to the countries in where the two cities important to Mevlana's life are mentioned are situated. That is because neither http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&X=7475000&Y=4300000&scale=1000000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&coordsys=mercator&db=&overviewmap=&scale=1000000&up.x=18&up.y=11 - Balkh , his birthplace, nor http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=europe&overviewmap=TR&db=TR&scale=1000000&coordsys=mercator&g.x=101&g.y=157 - Konya , the place he spent most of his adulthood and where he wrote all his works are under the jurisdiction of the same countries as when he was alive. Balkh was a city of the vast Persian Empire then and Konya was a city under the jurisdiction of the http://www.turkey.org/reference/in_selju.htm - Seljuks who does not exist anymore.

On the other hand, it is a historical fact that "Rumi" simply meant Anatolian back in time and that is why Mevlana is called Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi. Rumi, from the word Roma, was loosely used for the land of the old Eastern Roman Empire. Even the Seljuk sultanate that ruled Konya while Mevlana was living there was called "Sultanate of Rum." http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/trtoc.html - more... and http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aselj/hd_aselj.htm - more... It is this fact that made us call Mevlana Anatolian. There has never been a country called Anatolia. Calling Mevlana Anatolian, is the same as calling him Rumi. It is like calling someone European or African.

That is what we thought, but judging from the emails we keep receiving we were wrong in our assumption. We will continue to stand by our term "the great Anatolian philosopher," but at least we try to show you, the reader that we have no intention to "steal" Mevlana's heritage from any country or race. That is against Mevlana's philosophy and it will be the most wrong thing to do for the descendants of Mevlana.

In his own words:

"Come, come over, more over, how long this brigandage? As you are me and I am you. How long this discrimination of you and I?
 
We are light of GOD! Why this separation among us? Why light escapes from light? We are all from the same yeast, our brains and heads too. But under this bowed sky we see double"

Mevlana belongs to everyone.

Celebi Family

PS. May we suggest you to also have a look at http://groups.google.com/groups?q=pacalioglu&hl=en&scoring=d&rnum=7&selm=36B4D002.89F5C6F9%40redshift.com - this authoritative explanation on the subject by Dr. Ibrahim Gamard.




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Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2007 at 17:42
Sensible folk.

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Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2007 at 21:55
Video of Rumi poetry with Iranian music & various images.  Poetry starts at the 00:57 point.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqhNPY882kE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqhNPY882kE
 


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2007 at 05:43
That was great Hellios.
 
Here is scenes from the Zurkhaneh, where the Pahlavans also practice sufi rituals in their martial arts.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc&mode=related&search =


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Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 06:37
Zagros, that's very interesting.
 


Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 07:07
Originally posted by Zagros

That was great Hellios.
 
Here is scenes from the Zurkhaneh, where the Pahlavans also practice sufi rituals in their martial arts.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc&mode=related&search =


They are doing the same rituals from on the sassanian period till now?

if yes, interesting and strange too :)


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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 12:31

It is very ancient but, I do not know its exact date of origin, it has aspects from Mithraism, Sufism, Shi'ism and martial skills.

The Zur Khaneh has a very narrow and short entrance, there are two reasons:
 
1.  One is that the Pahlavan must never be so proud, he must bow to enter the Zur Khaneh.  the Pahlavan must be noble and never a bully and use his strength only for good.
2.  If enemy attacks the Zur Khaneh they can only move in one by one in a crouched and uncomfortable way.  I think that it was during Arab occupation this martial art was founded so that Iranians could be battle ready but the enemy would think that they are simply exercising.
 
My dad was a Pahlavan (army champion) and my great great great grandad the most legendary from Western Iran (Hossein e Golzar Kermanshahi), he was poisoned by a competitor (Akbar Khorasani) when he came to fight him at Nasser ul Din Shah's court in Tehran in the late 19th century.


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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2007 at 18:56
Better late than never
 
Originally posted by Molana Jalaladin Rumi

I am neither Christian, nor Jew, nor Zoroastrian, nor Moslem.
I am not of the East, nor of the West,
nor of the land, nor of the sea;
I am not of Nature's mint, nor of the circling heavens.
I am not of earth, nor of water, nor of air, nor of fire;
I am not of the empyrean, nor of the dust, nor of existence, nor of entity.
I am not of India, nor of China, nor of Bulghar, nor of Saqsin;
I am not of the kingdom of 'Iraqain, nor of the country of Khorasan.
I am not of this world, nor of the next, nor of Paradise, nor of Hell;
I am not of Adam, nor of Eve, nor of Eden and Rizwan.
My place is the Placeless, my trace is the Traceless;
'Tis neither body nor soul, for I belong to the soul of the Beloved.
I have put duality away, I have seen that the two worlds are one;
I seek, know, see, and call only one.


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Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 07:03
Zagros, what's the connection between Rumi & the guys in that video?
I noticed some whirling, like the Dervishes.
Isn't Dervish a Persian word?
 


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 10:49
Darvish, yes it is -  the connection is that they have sufism mixed in with their doctrine and the whirling they do is exactly with the same purpose, where the soul is meant to leave the body. 

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Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 23:15
Originally posted by Zagros

Here is scenes from the Zurkhaneh, where the Pahlavans also practice sufi rituals in their martial arts.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc&mode=related&search - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFsQeDFbptc&mode=related&search =
 
What's the music in the video?
 
Are these images of the Zurkhaneh?
 


Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 23:20
Hey Hellios, the music is Rachid Taha (Barra Barra), it's Arabic.
 
And those are Zurkhaneh images.


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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 10:41

Molana Poem, Parvaneh sho (become a butterfly), sung by Shajarian and his son - amazing.

enjoy: http://www.orkut.com/FavoriteVideos.aspx?uid=2242505091782900034&sm=upd - http://www.orkut.com/FavoriteVideos.aspx?uid=2242505091782900034&sm=upd


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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 17:39
Originally posted by Zagros

Molana Poem, Parvaneh sho (become a butterfly), sung by Shajarian and his son - amazing.

enjoy: http://www.orkut.com/FavoriteVideos.aspx?uid=2242505091782900034&sm=upd - http://www.orkut.com/FavoriteVideos.aspx?uid=2242505091782900034&sm=upd
It requires registration, anyway thanks again for the work you've done.


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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 18:38
sorry bro, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9eBUOIcIzk&eurl - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9eBUOIcIzk&eurl =

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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 17-Feb-2012 at 23:04
I'll post his poems here:

Confused and distraught


Again I am raging, I am in such a state by your soul that every
bond you bind, I break, by your soul.
I am like heaven, like the moon, like a candle by your glow; I am all
reason, all love, all soul, by your soul.
My joy is of your doing, my hangover of your thorn; whatever
side you turn your face, I turn mine, by your soul.
I spoke in error; it is not surprising to speak in error in this
state, for this moment I cannot tell cup from wine, by your soul.
I am that madman in bonds who binds the "divs"; I, the madman,
am a Solomon with the "divs", by your soul.
Whatever form other than love raises up its head from my
heart, forthwith I drive it out of the court of my heart, by your soul.
Come, you who have departed, for the thing that departs
comes back; neither you are that, by my soul, nor I am that, by your soul.
Disbeliever, do not conceal disbelief in your soul, for I will recite
the secret of your destiny, by your soul.
Out of love of Sham-e Tabrizi, through wakefulness or
nightrising, like a spinning mote I am distraught, by your soul.



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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 19-Feb-2012 at 19:08
Rumi:

Reason says, "I will beguile him with the tongue;"
Love says, "Be silent. I will beguile him with the soul."
The soul says to the heart, "Go, do not laugh at me
and yourself. What is there that is not his, that I may beguile him thereby?"
He is not sorrowful and anxious and seeking oblivion
that I may beguile him with wine and a heavy measure.
The arrow of his glance needs not a bow that I should
beguile the shaft of his gaze with a bow.
He is not prisoner of the world, fettered to this world
of earth, that I should beguile him with gold of the kingdom of the world.
He is an angel, though in form he is a man; he is not
lustful that I should beguile him with women.
Angels start away from the house wherein this form
is, so how should I beguile him with such a form and likeness?
He does not take a flock of horses, since he flies on wings;
his food is light, so how should I beguile him with bread?
He is not a merchant and trafficker in the market of the
world that I should beguile him with enchantment of gain and loss.
He is not veiled that I should make myself out sick and
utter sighs, to beguile him with lamentation.
I will bind my head and bow my head, for I have got out
of hand; I will not beguile his compassion with sickness or fluttering.
Hair by hair he sees my crookedness and feigning; what's
hidden from him that I should beguile him with anything hidden.
He is not a seeker of fame, a prince addicted to poets,
that I should beguile him with verses and lyrics and flowing poetry.
The glory of the unseen form is too great for me to
beguile it with blessing or Paradise.
Shams-e Tabriz, who is his chosen and beloved - perchance
I will beguile him with this same pole of the age.




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 20-Feb-2012 at 21:25
Rumi:

I have come so that, tugging your ear, I may draw you to me,
unheart and unself you, plant you in my heart and soul.
Rosebush, I have come a sweet springtide unto you, to seize
you very gently in my embrace and squeeze you.
I have come to adorn you in this worldly abode, to convey you
above the skies like lovers' prayers.
I have come because you stole a kiss from an idol fair; give it
back with a glad heart, master, for I will seize you back.
What is a mere rose? You are the All
1, you are the speaker of
the command "Say"
2 . If no one else knows you, since you are I, I know you.
You are my soul and spirit, you are my Fatiha-chanter
3 , be-
come altogether the Fatiha, so that I may chant you in my heart.
You are my quarry and game, though you have sprung from
the snare; return to the snare, and if you will not, I will drive you.
The lion said to me, "You are a wonderous deer; be gone! Why
do you run in my wake so swiftly? I will tear you to pieces."
Accept my blow, and advance like a hero's shield;
give your ear to naught but the bowstring, that I may bend you like a bow.
So many thousand stages there are from earth's bounds to
man; I have brought you from city to city, I will not leave you by the roadside.
Say nothing, froth not, do not raise the lid of the cauldron;
simmer well, and be patient, for I am cooking you.
No, for you are a lion's whelp hidden in a deer's body: I will
cause you suddenly to transcend the deer's veil.
You are my ball, and you run in the curved mallet of my
decree; though I am making you to run, I am still running in your track.



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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 23-Feb-2012 at 01:44
Rumi:
A New Rule

It is the rule with drunkards to fall upon each other,
to quarrel, become violent, and make a scene.
The lover is even worse than a drunkard.
I will tell you what love is: to enter a mine of gold.
And what is that gold?

The lover is a king above all kings,
unafraid of death, not at all interested in a golden crown.
The dervish has a pearl concealed under his patched cloak.
Why should he go begging door to door?

Last night that moon came along,
drunk, dropping clothes in the street.
"Get up," I told my heart, "Give the soul a glass of wine.
The moment has come to join the nightingale in the garden,
to taste sugar with the soul-parrot."

I have fallen, with my heart shattered -
where else but on your path? And I
broke your bowl, drunk, my idol, so drunk,
don't let me be harmed, take my hand.

A new rule, a new law has been born:
break all the glasses and fall toward the glassblower.




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2012 at 01:43
Rumi:
It is the rule with drunkards to fall upon one another, to fight
and squabble and make tumult.
The lover is worse than the drunkard; the lover also belongs
to that party. I will tell what love is; it is to fall into a goldmine.
What may that gold be? The lover is the king of kings; it
means becoming secure from death and not caring for the golden crown.
The darvish in his cloak, and in his pocket the pearl - why
should he be ashamed of begging from door to door?
Last night that moon came along, having flung his girdle on the road, so
drunken that he was not aware that his girdle had fallen.
I said, "Leap up, my heart, place wine in the hand of the soul;
for such a time has befallen, it is time to be roistering.
"To become hand in hand with the garden nightingale, to fall
into sugar with the spiritual parrot."
I, heart-forlorn and heart-yielded, fallen upon your way - by
Allah, I know of no other place to fall.
If I broke your bowl, I am drunk, my idol. I am drunk - leave
me not from you hand to fall into danger.
This is a newborn rule, a newly enacted decree - to shatter
glasses, and to fall upon the glassmaker!



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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 02:06
Rumi:




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 19:54
Rumi:




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 22:14
Rumi:

Sweetly parading you go my soul of soul, go not without me;
life of your friends, enter not the garden without me.
Sky, revolve not without me; moon, shine not without me;
earth travel not without me, and time, go not without me.
With you this world is joyous, and with you that world is joyous;
in this world dwell not without me, and to that world depart not without me.
Vision, know not without me, and tongue, recite not without
me; glance behold not without me, and soul, go not without me.
The night through the moon's light sees its face white; I am
light, you are my moon, go not to heaven without me.
The thorn is secure from the fire in the shelter of the roses
face: you are the rose, I your thorn; go not into the rose garden without me.
I run in the curve of your mallet when your eye is with me;
even so gaze upon me, drive not without me, go not without me.
When, joy, you are companion of the king, drink not without
me; when, watchman, you go to the kings roof, go not without me.
Alas for him who goes on this road without your sign; since
you, O signless one, are my sign, go not without me.
Alas for him who goes on the road without my knowledge;
you are the knowledge of the road for me; O road-knower, go not without me.
Others call you love, I call you the king of love; O you who are
higher than the imagination of this and that, go not without me.





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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 00:33
Rumi:

look at love
how it tangles
with the one fallen in love

look at spirit
how it fuses with earth
giving it new life

why are you so busy
with this or that or good or bad
pay attention to how things blend

why talk about all
the known and the unknown
see how the unknown merges into the known

why think seperately
of this life and the next
when one is born from the last

look at your heart and tongue
one feels but deaf and dumb
the other speaks in words and signs

look at water and fire
earth and wind
enemies and friends all at once

the wolf and the lamb
the lion and the deer
far away yet together

look at the unity of this
spring and winter
manifested in the equinox

you too must mingle my friends
since the earth and the sky
are mingled just for you and me

be like sugarcane
sweet yet silent
don't get mixed up with bitter words

my beloved grows
right out of my own heart
how much more union can there be



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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 23:37
Rumi:

come on sweetheart
let's adore one another
before there is no more
of you and me

a mirror tells the truth
look at your grim face
brighten up and cast away
your bitter smile

a generous friend
gives life for a friend
let's rise above this
animalistic behavior
and be kind to one another

spite darkens friendships
why not cast away
malice from our heart

once you think of me
dead and gone
you will make up with me
you will miss me
you may even adore me

why be a worshiper of the dead
think of me as a goner
come and make up now

since you will come
and throw kisses
at my tombstone later
why not give them to me now
this is me
that same person

i may talk too much
but my heart is silence
what else can i do
i am condemned to live this life




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 02:59
Rumi:

i've come again
like a new year
to crash the gate
of this old prison

i've come again
to break the teeth and claws
of this man-eating
monster we call life

i've come again
to puncture the
glory of the cosmos
who mercilessly
destroys humans

i am the falcon
hunting down the birds
of black omen
before their flights

i gave my word
at the outset to
give my life
with no qualms
i pray to the Lord
to break my back
before i break my word

how do you dare to
let someone like me
intoxicated with love
enter your house

you must know better
if i enter
i'll break all this and
destroy all that

if the sheriff arrives
i'll throw the wine
in his face
if your gatekeeper
pulls my hand
i'll break his arm

if the heavens don't go round
to my heart's desire
i'll crush its wheels and
pull out its roots

you have set up
a colorful table
calling it life and
asked me to your feast
but punish me if
i enjoy myself

what tyranny is this







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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 23:28
Rumi:

you mustn't be afraid of death
you're a deathless soul
you can't be kept in a dark grave
you're filled with God's glow

be happy with your beloved
you can't find any better
the world will shimmer
because of the diamond you hold

when your heart is immersed
in this blissful love
you can easily endure
any bitter face around

in the absence of malice
there is nothing but
happiness and good times
don't dwell in sorrow my friend




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 07-Mar-2012 at 18:07
Rumi:

Remember me.

I will be with you in the grave
on the night you leave behind
your shop and your family.
When you hear my soft voice
echoing in your tomb,
you will realize
that you were never hidden from my eyes.
I am the pure awareness within your heart,
with you during joy and celebration,
suffering and despair.

On that strange and fateful night
you will hear a familar voice --
you'll be rescued from the fangs of snakes
and the searing sting of scorpions.
The euphoria of love will sweep over your grave;
it will bring wine and friends, candles and food.

When the light of realization dawns,
shouting and upheaval
will rise up from the graves!
The dust of ages will be stirred
by the cities of ecstasy,
by the banging of drums,
by the clamor of revolt!

Dead bodies will tear off their shrouds
and stuff their ears in fright--
What use are the senses and the ears
before the blast of that Trumpet?

Look and you will see my form
whether you are looking at yourself
or toward that noise and confusion.

Don't be blurry-eyed,
See me clearly-
See my beauty without the old eyes of delusion.

Beware! Beware!
Don't mistake me for this human form.
The soul is not obscured by forms.
Even if it were wrapped in a hundred folds of felt
the rays of the soul's light
would still shine through.

Beat the drum,
Follow the minstrels of the city.
It's a day of renewal
when every young man
walks boldly on the path of love.

Had everyone sought God
Instead of crumbs and copper coins
T'hey would not be sitting on the edge of the moat
in darkness and regret.

What kind of gossip-house
have you opened in our city?
Close your lips
and shine on the world
like loving sunlight.

Shine like the Sun of Tabriz rising in the East.
Shine like the star of victory.
Shine like the whole universe is yours!




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2012 at 20:56
Rumi:

HOW SHOULD THE SOUL not take wings
when from the Glory of God

It hears a sweet, kindly call:
"Why are you here, soul? Arise!"

How should a fish not leap fast
into the sea from dry land

When from the ocean so cool
the sound of the waves reaches its

How should the falcon not fly
back to his king from the hunt

When from the falconer's drum
it hears to call: "Oh, come back"?

Why should not every Sufi
begin to dance atom-like

Around the Sun of duration
that saves from impermanence?

What graciousness and what beauty?
What life-bestowing! What grace!

If anyone does without that, woe-
what err, what suffering!

Oh fly , of fly, O my soul-bird,
fly to your primordial home!

You have escaped from the cage now-
your wings are spread in the air.

Oh travel from brackish water
now to the fountain of life!

Return from the place of the sandals
now to the high seat of souls!

Go on! Go on! we are going,
and we are coming, O soul,

From this world of separation
to union, a world beyond worlds!

How long shall we here in the dust-world
like children fill our skirts

With earth and with stones without value,
with broken shards without worth?

Let's take our hand from the dust grove,
let's fly to the heavens' high,

Let's fly from our childish behaviour
and join the banquet of men!

Call out, O soul, to proclaim now
that you are rules and king!

You have the grace of the answer,
you know the question as well!




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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 12-Mar-2012 at 00:17
Rumi:

HE SAID: "Who's knocking at my door?"
Said I: "Your humble servant!"
Said He: "What business have you got?"
Said I: "I came to greet You!"
Said He: "How long are you to push?"
Said I: "Until You'll call me!"
Said He: "How long are you to boil?"
Said I: "Till resurrection!"
I claimed I was a lover true
and I took may oaths
That for the sake of love I lost
my kingdom and my wealth!
He said: "You make a claim - the judge
needs witness for your cause!"
Said I: "My witness is my tears,
my proof my yellow face!"
Said He: "The witness is corrupt,
your eye is wet and ill!"
Said I: "No, by Your eminence:
My eye is sinless clear!"
He said: "And what do you intend?"
Said I: "Just faithful friendships!"
Said He: "What do you want from me?"
Said I: "Your grace abundant!"
Said He: "Who travelled here with you?"
Said I: "Your dream and phantom!"
Said He: "And what led you to me?"
Said I: "Your goblet's fragrance!"
Said He: "What is most pleasant, say?"
Said I: "The ruler's presence!"
Said He: "What did you see there, friend?"
Said I: "A hundred wonders!"
Said He: "Why is it empty now?"
Said I: "From fear of brigands!"
Said He: "The brigand, who is that?"
Said I: "IT is the blaming!"
Said He: "And where is safety then?"
Said: "In renunciation."
Said He: "Renunciation? That's ... ?"
Said I: "The path to safety!"
Said He: "And where is danger, then?"
Said I: "In Your love's quarters!"
Said He: "And how do you fare there?"
Said I: "Steadfast and happy."
I tested you and tested you,
but it availed to nothing -
Who tests the one who was once tried,
he will repent forever!
Be silent! If I'd utter here
the secrets fine he told me,
You would go out all of yourself,
no door nor roof could hold you!



-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2012 at 01:35
Rumi:
OH HAPPY DAY when in you presence,
my ruler, I shall die!
When near the sugar-treasure melting
like sugar I shall die!
Out of my dust will grow a thousand
of centrifolias
When in the shade of yonder cypress
in gardens I shall die.
And when you pour into my goblet
the bitter drink of death,
I'll kiss the goblet full of joy, dear,
and drunken I shall die.
I may turn yellow like the autumn
when people speak of death,
Thanks to your smiling lip: like springtime
and smiling shall I die.
I have died many times, but your breath
made me alive again,
Should I die thus a hundred more times
I happily shall die!
A child that dies in mother's bosom,
that's how I am, my friend,
For in the bosom of His Mercy
and kindness, I shall die.
Say: Where would death be for the lovers?
Impossible is that!
For in the fountain of the Water
of Life - there I shall die!



-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2012 at 13:28
Rumi:

WHY CLING

Why cling to one life
till it is soiled and ragged?

The sun dies and dies
squandering a hundred lived
every instant

God has decreed life for you
and He will give
another and another and another




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 16-Mar-2012 at 12:08
Rumi:

At the twilight, a moon appeared in the sky;
Then it landed on earth to look at me.
Like a hawk stealing a bird at the time of prey;
That moon stole me and rushed back into the sky.
I looked at myself, I did not see me anymore;
For in that moon, my body turned as fine as soul.
The nine spheres disappeared in that moon;
The ship of my existence drowned in that sea.

Divan, 649:1-3,5




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2012 at 23:10
Rumi:

Now sleeping, now awake, my hart is in constant fervor.
It is a covered saucepan, placed on fire.
O you! who have offered us from a cup a silencing wine;
Each moment a new tale is shouting to be told in silence.
In his wrath there are a hundred kindnesess, in his meanness a hundred generosities;
In his ignorance immeasurable gnosis, silently speaking like the mind.
The words of those whom you have silenced, cannot hear
but those whom you have made unconscious;
I am both silent and fermenting for you like the sea of Aden!

Divan, 1808:6-9




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 18-Mar-2012 at 21:59
Rumi:

"I am only the house of your beloved,

not the beloved herself:

true love is for the treasure,

not for the coffer that contains it."

The real beloved is that one who is unique,

who is your beginning and your end.

When you find that one,

you'll no longer expect anything else:

that is both the manifest and the mystery.

That one is the lord of states of feeling,

dependent on none;

month and year are slaves to that moon.

When he bids the "state,"

it does His bidding;

when that one wills, bodies become spirit.





-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 19-Mar-2012 at 19:57
Rumi:

The springtime of Lovers has come,

that this dust bowl may become a garden;

the proclamation of heaven has come,

that the bird of the soul may rise in flight.

The sea becomes full of pearls,

the salt marsh becomes sweet as kauthar,

the stone becomes a ruby from the mine,

the body becomes wholly soul.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 20-Mar-2012 at 17:53
Rumi:

The intellectual is always showing off,

the lover is always getting lost.

The intellectual runs away.

afraid of drowning;

the whole business of love

is to drown in the sea.

Intellectuals plan their repose;

lovers are ashamed to rest.

The lover is always alone.

even surrounded by people;

like water and oil, he remains apart.

The man who goes to the trouble 

of giving advice to a lover

get nothing. He's mocked by passion.

Love is like musk. It attracts attention.

Love is a tree, and the lovers are its shade.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2012 at 04:07
Rumi:

Love has nothing to do with

the five senses and the six directions:

its goal is only to experience

the attraction exerted by the Beloved.

Afterwards, perhaps, permission

will come from God:

the secrets that ought to be told with be told

with an eloquence nearer to the understanding

that these subtle confusing allusions.

The secret is partner with none

but the knower of the secret:

in the skeptic's ear

the secret is no secret at all.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2012 at 17:13
Rumi:

When the rose is gone and the garden faded
you will no longer hear the nightingale's song.
The Beloved is all; the lover just a veil. 
The Beloved is living; the lover a dead thing.
If love withholds its strengthening care,
the lover is left like a bird without care,
the lover is left like a bird without wings.
How will I be awake and aware
if the light of the Beloved is absent?
Love wills that this Word be brought forth.



-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2012 at 11:00
Rumi:
Because I cannot sleep
I make music at night.
I am troubled by the one
whose face e has the color of spring flowers.
I have neither sleep nor patience,
neither a god reputation nor disgrace.
A thousand robes of wisdom are gone.
All my good manners have moved a thousand miles away.
The heart and the mind are left angry with each other.
The starts and the moon are envious of each other.
Because of this alienation the physical universe
is getting tighter and tighter.
The moon says, "How long will I remain
suspended without a sun?"
Without Love's jewel inside of me,
let the bazaar of my existence by destroyed stone by stone.
O Love, You who have been called by a thousand names,
You who know how to pour the wine
into the chalice of the body,
You who give culture to a thousand cultures,
You who are faceless but have a thousand faces,
O Love, You who shape the faces
of Turks, Europeans, and Zanzibaris,
give me a glass from Your bottle,
or a handful of bheng from Your Branch.
Remove the cork once more.
The we'll see a thousand chiefs prostrate themselves,
and a circle of ecstatic troubadours will play.
Then the addict will be breed of craving.
and will be resurrected,
and stand in awe till Judgement Day.



-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 24-Mar-2012 at 13:25
Rumi:
Ode 314

Those who don't feel this Love
pulling them like a river,
those who don't drink dawn
like a cup of spring water
or take in sunset like supper,
those who don't want to change, 

let them sleep. 

This Love is beyond the study of theology,
that old trickery and hypocrisy.
I you want to improve your mind that way, 

sleep on. 

I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away. 

If you're not completely naked,
wrap your beautiful robe of words
around you, 

and sleep.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2012 at 23:11
Rumi:

I have been tricked by flying too close 
to what I thought I loved. 

Now the candleflame is out, the wine spilled,
and the lovers have withdrawn
somewhere beyond my squinting.

The amount I thought I'd won, I've lost.
My prayers becomes bitter and all about blindness.

How wonderful it was to be for a while
with those who surrender.

Others only turn their faces on way,
then another, like pigeon in flight.

I have known pigeons who fly in a nowhere,
and birds that eat grainlessness,

and tailor who sew beautiful clothes
by tearing them to pieces.

 




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2012 at 00:56
Rumi:

Last night you lfet me and slept

your own deep sleep. Tonight you turn

and turn. I say,

"You and I will be together

till the universe dissolves."

You mumble back things you thought of

when you were drunk.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2012 at 23:37
Rumi:

Who is at my door?

He said, "Who is at my door?"
I said, "Your humble servant."
He said, "What business do you have?"
I said, "To greet you, 0 Lord."


He said, "How long will you journey on?"
I said, "Until you stop me."
He said, "How long will you boil in the fire?"
I said, "Until I am pure.


"This is my oath of love.
For the sake of love
I gave up wealth and position."


He said, "You have pleaded your case
but you have no witness."
I said, "My tears are my witness;
the pallor of my face is my proof.'
He said, "Your witness has no credibility;
your eyes are too wet to see."
I said, "By the splendor of your justice
my eyes are clear and faultless."


He said, "What do you seek?"
I said, "To have you as my constant friend."
He said, "What do you want from me?"
I said, "Your abundant grace."


He said, "Who was your companion on the 'ourney?
I said, "The thought of you, 0 King."
He said, "What called you here?"
I said, "The fragrance of your wine."


He said, "What brings you the most fulfillment?"
I said, "The company of the Emperor."
He said, "What do you find there?"
I said, "A hundred miracles."
He said, "Why is the palace deserted?"
I said, "They all fear the thief."
He said, "Who is the thief?"
I said, "The one who keeps me from -you.


He said, "Where is there safety?"
I said, "In service and renunciation."
He said, "What is there to renounce?"
I said, "The hope of salvation."


He said, "Where is there calamity?"
I said, "In the presence of your love."
He said, "How do you benefit from this life?"
I said, "By keeping true to myself


Now it is time for silence.
If I told you about His true essence
You would fly from your self and be gone,
and neither door nor roof could hold you back!





-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2012 at 22:36
Rumi:

In The Arc Of Your Mallet


Don't go anywhere without me.
Let nothing happen in the sky apart from me,
or on the ground, in this world or that world,
without my being in its happening.
Vision, see nothing I don't see.
Language, say nothing.
The way the night knows itself with the moon,
be that with me. Be the rose
nearest to the thorn that I am.

I want to feel myself in you when you taste food,
in the arc of your mallet when you work,
when you visit friends, when you go
up on the roof by yourself at night.

There's nothing worse than to walk out along the street
without you. I don't know where I'm going.
You're the road, and the knower of roads,
more than maps, more than love.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062509586/greecethracemi0e/ - s



-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 02-Apr-2012 at 14:11
Rumi:

LOVE IS THE MASTER

Love is the One who masters all things;
I am mastered totally by Love.
By my passion of love for Love
I have ground sweet as sugar.
O furious Wind, I am only a straw before you;
How could I know where I will be blown next?
Whoever claims to have made a pact with Destiny
Reveals himself a liar and a fool;
What is any of us but a straw in a storm?
How could anyone make a pact with a hurricane?
God is working everywhere his massive Resurrection;
How can we pretend to act on our own?
In the hand of Love I am like a cat in a sack;
Sometimes Love hoists me into the air,
Sometimes Love flings me into the air,
Love swings me round and round His head;
I have no peace, in this world or any other.
The lovers of God have fallen in a furious river;
They have surrendered themselves to Love's commands.
Like mill wheels they turn, day and night, day and night,
Constantly turning and turning, and crying out.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 05-Apr-2012 at 01:05
Rumi:

STAY CLOSE, MY HEART

Stay close, my heart, to the one who knows your ways;
Come into the shade of the tree that allays has fresh flowers.
Don't stroll idly through the bazaar of the perfume-markers:
Stay in the shop of the sugar-seller.
If you don't find true balance, anyone can deceive you;
Anyone can trick out of a thing of straw,
And make you take it for gold
Don't squat with a bowl before every boiling pot;
In each pot on the fire you find very different things.
Not all sugarcanes have sugar, not all abysses a peak;
Not all eyes possess vision, not every sea is full of pearls.
O nightingale, with your voice of dark honey! Go on lamenting!
Only your drunken ecstasy can pierce the rock's hard heart!
Surrender yourself, and if you cannot be welcomes by the Friend,
Know that you are rebelling inwardly like a thread
That doesn't want to go through the needle's eye!
The awakened heart is a lamp; protect it by the him of your robe!
Hurry and get out of this wind, for the weather is bad.
And when you've left this storm, you will come to a fountain;
You'll find a Friend there who will always nourish your soul.
And with your soul always green, you'll grow into a tall tree
Flowering always with sweet light-fruit, whose growth is interior.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2012 at 01:59
Rumi:

THE INTEREST WITHOUT THE CAPITAL

The lover's food is the love of the bread;
no bread need be at hand:
no one who is sincere in his love is a slave to existence.

Lovers have nothing to do with with with existence;
lovers have the interest without the capital.

Without wings they fly around the world;
without hands they carry the polo ball off the field.

That dervish who caught the scent of Reality
used to weave basket even though his hand had been cut off.

Lover have pitched their tents in nonexistence:
they are of one quality and one essence, as nonexistence is.

Mathnawi III, 3020-3024




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 10-Apr-2012 at 02:19
Rumi:

THE SHIP SUNK IN LOVE

Should Love's heart rejoice unless I burn?
For my heart is Love's dwelling.
If You will burn Your house, burn it, Love!
Who will say, 'It's not allowed'?
Burn this house thoroughly!
The lover's house improves with fire.
From now on I will make burning my aim,
From now on I will make burning my aim,
for I am like the candle: burning only makes me brighter.
Abandon sleep tonight; traverse fro one night
the region of the sleepless.
Look upon these lovers who have become distraught
and like moths have died in union with the One Beloved.
Look upon this ship of God's creatures
and see how it is sunk in Love.

Mathnawi VI, 617-623
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1570627177/greecethracemi0e/ - The Rumi Collection , Edited by Kabir Helminski




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 12-Apr-2012 at 03:14
Rumi:

Oh Beloved,
take me.
Liberate my soul.
Fill me with your love and
release me from the two worlds.
If I set my heart on anything but you
let fire burn me from inside.

Oh Beloved,
take away what I want.
Take away what I do.
Take away what I need.
Take away everything
that takes me from you.





-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 08-May-2012 at 01:53
Rumi:

CRADLE MY HEART


Last night,
I was lying on the rooftop,
thinking of you.
I saw a special Star,
and summoned her to take you a message.
I prostrated myself to the Star
and asked her to take my prostration
to that Sun of Tabriz.
So that with his light, he can turn
my dark stones into gold.
I opened my chest and showed her my scars,
I told her to bring me news
of my bloodthirsty Lover.
As I waited,
I paced back and forth,
until the child of my heart became quiet.
The child slept, as if I were rocking his cradle.
Oh Beloved, give milk to the infant of the heart,
and don't hold us from our turning.
You have cared for hundreds,
don't let it stop with me now.
At the end, the town of unity is the place for the heart.
Why do you keep this bewildered heart
in the town of dissolution?
I have gone speechless, but to rid myself
of this dry mood,
oh Saaqhi, pass the narcissus of the wine.




-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 09-May-2012 at 01:17
Rumi:

THE AWAKENING

In the early dawn of happiness
you gave me three kisses
so that I would wake up
to this moment of love

I tried to remember in my heart
what I’d dreamt about
during the night
before I became aware
of this moving
of life

I found my dreams
but the moon took me away
It lifted me up to the firmament
and suspended me there
I saw how my heart had fallen
on your path
singing a song

Between my love and my heart
things were happening which
slowly slowly
made me recall everything

You amuse me with your touch
although I can’t see your hands.
You have kissed me with tenderness
although I haven’t seen your lips
You are hidden from me.

But it is you who keeps me alive

Perhaps the time will come
when you will tire of kisses
I shall be happy
even for insults from you
I only ask that you
keep some attention on me.



-------------



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