National heros treated unjustly?
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Category: General History
Forum Name: General World History
Forum Discription: All aspects of world history, especially topics that span across many regions or periods
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1376
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 15:31
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Topic: National heros treated unjustly?
Posted By: Imperatore Dario I
Subject: National heros treated unjustly?
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 16:21
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Question, don't you guys think that there has been way too many famous heros, who've been unjustly treated after their good deeds? For example, Scipio Africanus saved all of Italy from Carthaginian aggression, yet, the Senate hated him after the war and feared his influence. Same for Giuseppe Garibaldi. He united all of southern Italy with the northern Piemontese kindgom, yet, the King refused to allow Garibaldi to be a part of the newly-formed Parliament. Just some examples... ------------- 
“Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.”- Virgil's Aeneid |
Replies:
Posted By: Murph
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 16:24
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president bill clinton...great president whose deeds were overshadowed by a sex scandal that was blown (no pun intended) way out of proportion ------------- |
Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 23:13
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General Porfirio Diaz.
While many others changed sides during the French Invasion ( 1862 - 1867 ), he remained loyal to Pres. Juarez. Despites Bazaine offered to deliver him to Maximilian as prisioner in exchange of take the power and then negotiate a favorable retry for France. Also, the offers from Maximilian to leave the country and deliver him the power only to him and not to Juarez. Offered a strong opposition as no other mexican president ever did to the pressures of the US to sell the nort states of Mexico ( Sonora, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Tamaulipas , Nuevo Leon and both Baja Californias ). He supported to the republics of central american against the US puppet goverment in Guatemala and rescued the constitutional president of Nicaragua from the US marines by dispatching a gunner boat to central america to rescue him. He fortified the mexican economy and gave to the country 35 years of peace ( it´s true that it was a lot of bloody uprisings ). The industry and the education were greatly improved. Of course, he allied with the industrial , land owners and bankers. In the process, suppresed the unions and the strikes. He´s what I call the Eagle and the Snake. An ambivalent player of our national history. Father of 8 kids. 5 of them died within few weeks after being born. Lost his wife after 40 years of marriage. He´s brother Felix was executed in a very ignominus way. He tasted the exile several times. Taken prisioner by the french twice and evaded them sucessfully. His services to the republic were not fully recognized by Pres. Juarez. But, once he tasted the power, he became the absolut ruler of Mexico over 35 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porfirio_D%EDaz |
Posted By: coolstorm
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 23:47
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there've been too many in china. in ancient china, lots of emperors executed their talented generals after all the strong enemies were conquered in fear of rebellions. |
Posted By: sephodwyrm
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 23:56
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The hero treated most unjustly are the great reformists of Chinese history. Unless they are respected China will have a hard time getting respected (since the world needs to be boxed in the face to respect the big guy): There's too much Ying Zheng bashing. He just got too cracked up on his great unification that he forgot who he was. Clearly, a system of tyrants cannot produce a lot of benevolence, but we have to respect him for creating the united nation known as China (Qin'a). ------------- "Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them" "Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11 |
Posted By: El_Bandito
Date Posted: 06-Jan-2005 at 22:58
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The early Revolutionaries of Mongolia during 1920's.(Genden, Demid,
Danzan, Bodo, Amur, Dilowa Khutugt...) They helped much to gain
independence from China and they paved the way for the country's
prosperity. They were all summarily executed by the Commies.(Except
Choibalsan, the Commie lapdog) On the ground that they were
counter-revolutionaries. How ironic. ------------- I'm awake, I'm awake. |
Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2005 at 18:08
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Yi Sun Shin- just because an idiot egoist wannabe-of-his-position lied to the king about Yi's infidelity, he was exiled, but since the king needed him(as well as all of Korea), he gave him the title without honor- choongmugong. Kim Gu- the founder and mastermind of korean resistance movement in Japanese occupation. Just because USA didn't want a united korea, CIA sent an agent to assasinate him.
------------- Grrr.. |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 07-Jan-2005 at 20:24
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Hey, Hang on! You're knocking my country's national sport. ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Mangudai
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2005 at 06:23
| Why do we need National heroes? Is it because we don't feel we're enough? |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2005 at 07:15
| To unite behind in case that would be needed? |
Posted By: Mangudai
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2005 at 08:45
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Firm leaders in the present - yes, but I'm talking about glorifying historical characters. That just leads to jingoism and hatred |
Posted By: Moller
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2005 at 11:39
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In Denmark we a general De Meza
He has commander of the Danish army in the war between Denmark and Austria/Prussia in 1864. He ordered the Danish Army to retreat from the main defensive line Dannevirke to fortifications further north which seemed weaker. It was in January and the conditions for a succesful retreat were not ideal. The operation was however a succes, but only on a military level. The retreat caused a national upset and De Meza was fired in discrease by the government. In that period the Danish nationalism was at its peak. Dannevirke was originaly build by Danish vikings in the 7th century and was a kind of symbolic border between Denmark and Germany. Retreating from Dannevirke was therefore in the public seen as treason. What the public didn't know was that big parts of the Dannevirke fortification were depended on moats. These moats freezed to ice so they were insignificant, so De Meza actually saved the army by ordering the retreat. |
Posted By: Serge L
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2005 at 16:47
| De Meza does not sound too Danish, as a surname. Did he have Spanish ancestors? |
Posted By: Moller
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 11:26
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You are right.
I was born in Denmark, but his family immigrated to Denmark from Spain. |
Posted By: TheOrcRemix
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 19:02
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Heros lift up spirts ------------- True peace is not the absence of tension, but the presence of justice. Sir Francis Drake is the REAL Pirate of the Caribbean |
Posted By: Faran
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 19:31
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Rostam Suren-Pahlav, the Iranian general at Carrhae, who was executed due to the king's jealousy Mohammad Mossadeq, who was a great Iranian hero but was overthrown by the West in a coup in 1953 for nationalizing Iran's oil industry Themistocles, the great Athenian leader who caused Athens' rise to power and the golden age, who was banished from Athens in (471?) BC
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Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 09-Jan-2005 at 21:21
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where you have the name Rostam from? i never heard him beign called such. and he was not part of the Pahlevi family, the Suren and Pahlevi family only joined much later. ------------- |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 19:11
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heres one a whole buncha countires could have overlooked http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4164321.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4164321.stm ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: dark_one
Date Posted: 12-Jan-2005 at 19:46
| Admiral Kolchak, led the white Army in the civil war. He is reviled because of his decission not to give Finland freedom (the fins promised to contribute 100 troops to the white cause if he did) he ran out of soldiers and supplie and was executed, and yet he was trying to save Russia from a great threatand when the Allies abandoned him he got is revenge- the Russian treasury which the Allies would have stolen to repay debt was handed over to the Bolsheviks. |
Posted By: Faran
Date Posted: 19-Jan-2005 at 18:04
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? What's the problem? Rostam was just Surena's first name, and this has nothing to do with the Pahlavis. |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 20-Jan-2005 at 13:47
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but you said Suren-Pahlav, while his last name was Suren alone. and i never heard his first name before, so I just wonder about the source... ------------- |
Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2005 at 08:25
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Vlad the Impaler Why? ask Bram Stoker  ------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |