bravest people that are not your people
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Military History
Forum Discription: Discussions related to military history: generals, battles, campaigns, etc.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13631
Printed Date: 20-Apr-2024 at 11:35
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Topic: bravest people that are not your people
Posted By: xi_tujue
Subject: bravest people that are not your people
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 15:20
who are according to you the "second" bravest people ion the planet I mean second place your own people are surely the bravest
But who do you think is realy brave but who aren't of your stock?
or who was or is the hardest bad*ass enemy or adversary of your country ,nation or people.
Who do you think are good warriors.
------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Replies:
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 15:21
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My choice would be germanic and vinking tribes so scandinavians
also the scotes not the english thow sorry Mate ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 16:08
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I dont think one could list bravery based on ethnicity or country, but to me all the steppe nations produce the best, smartest, and most far ranging of warriors. Turks, Mongols, Huns etc go everywhere and conquer everyone. It is of course, a biased appeal because that is my favorite history. Even in modern times after steppe empires faded away, Russia became their sucesssor and in modern times from Peter the Great to the fall of the Soviet Union Russian troops were the most stoic in the face of battle despite often being outgeneraled and ill equipped. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 16:24
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Could it have to do with climate you know harsh way of life. Like every man of the steppe was a warrior and there "profession" came secondary.
with most other people it was the other way around ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:07
I think it's my turn to point out that bravery not necessarily implies being a warrior or fighting or kicking ass or such.
I personally find, for example, Rosa Parks, the black woman who refused to give up her seat cause it was reserved for white people in Apartheid USA, and who thus started the Civil Rights Movement, ten times braver than Dschingis Khan and his Mongols, Attila and his Huns, the Vikings who raided English monasteries and all the other usual suspects that are mentioned at these occasions, together.
Not that anybody ever listens..........
------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:19
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I want to make something clear.
Alot of people are going to dislike me for this.
Defending your existence your country isn't brave its nesecary its an human instinct to do so. It kill or be killed but true braveness is to go outside of your borders an explore anc conquer more lands.(bet you know that I'm ca descendent)
You could say its all about what your philosfy is every person andor people have a differnet look on the world and things.
tue bravery is speaking your minde and acting the way you ruely believe is right no mathers what people think or say or do ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 17:36
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Bravery is to never falter and stand up against murder, oppression and discrimination wherever it rears its ugly head and to try and halt its dishonest band wagon that most people like to ride, either through ignorance, self interest or plain idiocy.
Conquerors of other lands are seldom brave, they prey on the weakand vulnerable. ------------- |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 20:52
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COnquerors makie history intresting, and in the time before the internet they were integral to spreading technology and ideas. For every bad conqueror I can think of a good one.
Nontheless, I agree that it takes more bravery to stand up against authority than to invade someone else. But the best kind of bravery is the bravery to fight your own people and your own government for what is right, whether violently or not.
Black Power movements did alot more for civil rights than peace activism, by scaring white people to accept the less threatening alternative.
And Xi Tujue, I am not one of those nationalistic morons who thinks because I am part of a country that the country then is great or is brave. I can name plenty of braver people than Americans off the top of my head. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 21:42
Couldn't agree more... "It doesnt take power to kill, it takes power to not to kill" - from Schindler's List ------------- |
Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 22:04
A big "yes" to the quote in bold. Not too sure about the rest .... ------------- |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 28-Jul-2006 at 22:22
| Iroqouis. |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2006 at 03:54
I, wouldn't dare to think that my friend.
 Btw if you were you couldn't become moderator according to AE rules hhaaha
wel peace ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2006 at 09:44
|
Whereas both Rosa Parks and Genghis Khan were brave in their own way, they were both individuals and not peoples. For an entire people to deemed brave, it's not enough to single out a few extraordinary individuals and incidents, because this will make it possible to justify just about any people on the planet as the bravest. No, what one must look for is a continous show of bravery throughout the centuries, and the relative absence of cowardly displays. A people who've been able to "keep up pressure", so to speak, in all circumstances. Following this logic, the Turkic tribes would IMO rank far higher in this contest than the Mongols. Surely the latter had their days of carnage and glory, but it was confined to a single period whereas the many Turkic peoples made themselves felt over a considerable amount of time and in many corners of the World. The same could be said of the Germanic tribes; from the Cimbri's battles to the Roman defeat in the Teutoborg Forest, the conquest of western Rome to the establishment of the Holy Roman Empire and the defeat of the Magyars and the Slavic tribes in the middle ages, the Viking invasions and the Varangian Guard, from the Teutonic Order to the military state of Prussia, the Austrian repulse of the Ottomans, the unparallelled destruction of the Thirty Years War and the successes under Bismarck, and I hardly need to mention Nazi Germany that could only be brought down by an alliance of the entire civilized world. I should've made my point clear; I'd say either the Germanic or the Turkic tribes, possibly both. This is of course a result of my history knowledge being somewhat restricted to Europe and the Middle East, but I doubt there are peoples outside these regions with even more impressive records that I haven't heard of at all. ------------- |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 29-Jul-2006 at 10:42
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The Samurai... or Japanese in general.
True bravery is to face a Sith alone ... then you will see what the dark side of life looks like. Unfortunately it is not possible. ------------- |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 03:32
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Or face a Jedi master, why would you assume we want to be Jedi? Sith are way cooler, and the get to have sex. I am SO a Sith Lord, their philosophy is the first political statement I have ever seen that I completely agree with. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 03:40
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Well, actually the Jedi code is not that certain... There were hundreds of Jedi who had sex, many had children (ok, not many, but few (besides Anakin)).
To face a Sith, because the Jedi won't kill you just for fun, but the Sith have very good reasons to do that. Ofcourse, if you're a Sith and you encounter Jedi, they will kill you for fun but that is irrelevant. ------------- |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 04:01
But they never have fun, protecting that shambling blob of a useless republic. I get to promote on ability and choke incompotents (something all governments should do) plus have a cooler wardrobe and shoot lightning. My theme song will also likely be cooler, and Im more likley to be potrayed by a beter actor.
OK before we get in trouble for ruing the thread, I want to ask flyingzone a question.
Your a proff and clearly know your history, tell me how you can possibly no tbe sure of the effectiveness of violence? DO you honestly think hunger strikes could have toppled Hitler or that defense from government aggression like the French Resistence is not justifiable? ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 04:40
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Ok, this went a little off topic by TWO mods... this is wierd. All your points about the Sith are truly true.
Violence against civilians in wars is usually unnecessary as it just makes people defend themselves more. My opinion. ------------- |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 06:28
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I wish I was a wooki jedi is there such thing? ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 09:09
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The Jedi Master Tyvokka who was a close friend to Yoda, was a Wookiee. There was one other Wookiee Jedi during the New Jedi Order, but I do not remember his or her name. And I do not recall any other encountering with Wookiee Jedi. ------------- |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 11:24
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rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrh wookiee how do you tell if its female or male.
btw what race is yoda ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 13:06
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It is unknown, Lucas has never told what race of Yoda is, but there are two suspects of that race around more, Yaddle and someone from the KotOR Age.
Wookiee sex: no idea, I bet their sounds. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Jul-2006 at 16:39
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There have been many many brave peoples to grace the surface of this planet, but, having read Victor Davis Hanson's The Western Way of War (hoping I remebered that correctly), it has to be the Greeks...the Swiss pkemen before they got arrogant and greedy, or, above all else, those who participated enthusiastically in the American Civil War (and presumably other wars of the same period), brutal and random...you'd never find me in those ranks...well, maybe the Greeks. my first post, so ...hi all :)
------------- |
Posted By: Datuna
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 06:05
| The braviest nations don't exist.......They're already dead. |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 06:41
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or they are not the people they used to be ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 17:56
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Brave=having courage to stand up for ur dignity and self respect.
The brave choose annihilation over assimilation.(A generalisation)
Whoever posess these two attribute are brave. ------------- |
Posted By: Urungu Han
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 05:43
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Some people said ghengis' mongols(but the army was mainly Turkic :D)
Some people said ancient Turkic Tribes.
And some said Germanic tribes.
Well,ı think the redskins are the second bravest :D
|
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 08:18
I'd like to turn your point around. Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I think bravery is first and foremost a personal assett, not a public one.
As for the tribes mentioned above, I would call them either very thick-skulled or even plain violent. I don't see how several centuries of going berserk on everyone and everything makes brave...
So, I support Komnenos, and I would like to nominate this fella:
 Have you ever seen the movie fragment? It is absolutely awesome, even more so because he remains anonimous. ------------- 
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 13:24
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Is it possible for a whole people to be classified as brave? I don't know, maybe not, but then the whole thread would become meaningless, so I just replied based on the thread's premises. If a whole people can indeed be deemed brave, then I'm sticking with the two I mentioned. Certainly, these peoples were violent at times, but when it comes down to the survival of you or someone else then the depressing truth is that strength will be the decisive factor. When stuck in a corner, one can either fight one's way out or die, and it's not like anyone ever wished to end up in this situation, they just had to be brave and make the best of it, lest all they care for should be taken from them. I know this sounds a bit melodramatic, and actual drama can be extremely hard to relate to when living a sedated and comfortable life far removed from any struggles of life and death. Still, such struggles have been all too real for many throughout history, and still is for some. ------------- |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 13:29
True, I agree with you on that.
[/QUOTE]
Certainly, these peoples were violent at times, but when it comes down to the survival of you or someone else then the depressing truth is that strength will be the decisive factor. When stuck in a corner, one can either fight one's way out or die, and it's not like anyone ever wished to end up in this situation, they just had to be brave and make the best of it, lest all they care for should be taken from them. [/QUOTE] Also true, I did not deny their strength or struggle for survival, I just wonder if one could classify it as brave. I would say being good at surviving as a people is a great achievement, but not neccesarily an act of bravery. -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 02-Aug-2006 at 13:37
Maybe it's just stubbornness. 
------------- |
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 04-Aug-2006 at 21:40
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I've just seen a documentary about a man called Yehuda Lerner aged 16, he was separated from his parents in the Warsaw ghetto and sent to labor camp, there he escaped 8 times until he was brought to the extermination camp of Sobibor. He managed not to be gazed at first and with about 60 other prisoniers set up the only succesful mass escaped from the Nazis' concentration camps killing 12 SS. While escaping they were shot at by Ukrainian gardians and had to cross a minefield. Once free, he joined the Polish resistance. If you are interested the film's intitled Sobibor October 14th 1943, 4 PM. By Claude Lanzman. M ------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 06:31
well said friend  ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: toysoldier
Date Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 10:16
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i´ll have to say the russians. i mean, they´ve taking punches from anybody and never fainted. mongols, otoman turks, brits, french, americans, swedes, poles, chinese... everybody fought them one day or the other, and they stood there in the buffer zone, fending off. the greatest empires ever took on them, and only the mongols made them surrender, but who wouldn´t?
an on top of it, they are rather nice people, not prone to savagery or cruelty in war -standard raping and pillaging aside-. ------------- three rounds each... now we win! |
Posted By: Timotheus
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 00:21
| Toysoldier - I don't think too highly of the Russians, especially their leaders. You didn't describe bravery, more like resiliency. I would say the reason for their resilience is that they are a very monolithic and occasionally fatalistic people. They've lived through more oppression than most other states can count, and they haven't even been conquered very often. In that state, a people will often band together as one and fight together as one to defend what little is left to them. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 23:39
Well then, clearly you find this (ahem) anonymous person quite brave. So brave and handsome.
http://rutgers.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31042670&id=8804938">  ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 04:37
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Is that you? -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 20:30
Top lad. ------------- |
Posted By: Digvijay
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 11:27
In his Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/James_Tod - James Tod wrote:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India - http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India Also rajputs could not be captured alive if a battle outcome was against them. Rajput women self immolated themselves and men died fighting then be captured: http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Character - http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Character -Digs |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 11:45
| I would have to say the French, they have proven themselves relentlessly to be brave warriors. |
Posted By: ulrich von hutten
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 12:06
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the bravest people i ever met ,were my brothers and my sister, who had to taste my mother's lunch nearly every day, when we were young....may be that was the reason , my elder brother decided to become a chef... ------------- 
http://imageshack.us"> 
|
Posted By: John Lenon
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 09:43
Spartans 
|
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2006 at 16:17
An exerpt from a piece of contemporary biased propaganda does not a brave people make...
The Anglo-Saxons also claimed to die rather than lose, but run they did, when they needed to. You will need better proof than this nationalistic sh*t. -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2012 at 19:54
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The Irish as they, like the Poles, endured centuries of oppression but never lost their identity. Another great thing about the Irish is they share our love of strong drink
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |