A former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bul
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13393
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 07:02
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Topic: A former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bul
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Subject: A former Premier of Macedonia: I am a bul
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 17:14
 Ljubcho Georgievski
Prime Minister of the Republic of Macedonia (1998 - 2002) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubcho_Georgievski - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubcho_GeorgievskiFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaLjubcho Georgievski ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language - Macedonian : Љубчо Георгиевски, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_language - Bulgarian : Любчо Георгиевски) (born http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_17 - January 17 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966 - 1966 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0tip - Štip ) is a politician from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia - Republic of Macedonia and former Prime Minister of the country. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999 - 1999 he was listed in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Book_of_Records - Guinness Book of Records as being the world's youngest Prime Minister. He was 32 years old when he took office. On http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_14 - July 14 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 - 2006 it was announced that Ljubcho Georgievski applied for and was granted Bulgarian citizenship on the basis that his parents are Bulgarians. This was confirmed by an official of the Bulgarian President's Office. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubcho_Georgievski#_note-0 - [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubcho_Georgievski#_note-1 - [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubcho_Georgievski#_note-2 - [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubcho_Georgievski#_note-2 - [ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ljubcho_Georgievski&action=edit§ion=1 - edit ]
Professional and political biography
References
------------------------------------------------- Well, im glad to announce
all people here about that magnificent event! |
Replies:
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 17:41
|
Great news. One Macedonian pursuaded, 1 999 999 more to go. Keep up the good work, Charge! ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 18:17
Well, he is not the first bulgarian from FYROMacedonia who officially declared that he is a bulgarian. He is just one more.  And he will not be the last, you know. 
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Posted By: Kutzalan
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 16:20
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It's something pretty natural... History built on lies can't live long
Greetings to all of you, brothers
|
Posted By: Desperado
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:25
| It's very interesting that in order to receive bulgarian citizenship the candidates have to prove the bulgarian roots of their predecessors-usually а certificate of baptism where the nationality is shown. According to the number of Macedonian citizens that are demanding/already have taken Bulgarian passports: 100 thousands macedonians have bulgarian grandparents which is in contradiction with the official statistics for ethnic groups in FYROM-where a Bulgarian minority is not present at all. |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2006 at 23:35
|
If he has to prove his parent's are Bulgarian, and can... then isn't he
Bulgarian regardless of whether of not there's a Slavic Macedonian
nation or not?
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Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 02:15
Yes, exactly. I want to specify the difference between the termins "nation" and "people": "Nation" are all the citizens of one political state, who are living, working and payind taxes to that political state. They can be of many & different ethnic groups. "People" is something diferent. These are human beings from the same ethnic group or from few ethnic groups, but with very very big similarities between them(as between the dialects of one language). The history is also important thing for the formation of one people, but in the "slavic-macedonian" case - all is clear - according to the history they are definetly not different from the other bulgarians. And because of that: there don`t exist "slavic macedonian nation", but there really exist "macedonian"(FYROMian) nation. And that nation is composite mainly of macedonian bulgarians(as a part of the bulgarian people) and albanians(as a part of the albanian people). ------------- |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 03:29
|
Your argument of describing Macedonians as Bulgarians is flawed, because you are missing one very important point - namely that most Macedonians do not conisder themselves Bulgarian - in fact most would resent the idea of being Bulgarian. The alleged Bulgarianness of Macedonians is usually centered around linguistic arguments about the similarities between the Bulgarian and Makedonian languages. But such arguments again are flawed. As a counterexample to such arguments one could invoke the Austria-Germany parallel - both Austria and Germany speak the same language, but the Austrian people are generally considered distinct from the German people. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 07:49
You wish... I will say that most of the macedonian bulgarians still remember very very well, that they are bulgarians. And gradually they will acknowledge officially that fact, be sure. Was you a bulgarian between 1984 - 1989, dear bg_turk? Because officially you was a bulgarian. Did you remember, ha? The communistic process of assimilation of the bulgarian turks into bulgarians has finished in 1989. Good for you. But the assimilation of the macedonian bulgarians into "macedonians" in FYROMacedonia still works nowadays. It seems that you support that disgusting assimilation as your way for revenge.
Oh, you wish to be "alleged"... And you again forget about the history.
Sorry, bg_turk, but that assertion is really very wrong. Just read more. And it will be good, if you find some ethnic maps of Europe: there is no"austrian people", but "germans". ------------- |
Posted By: Desperado
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 08:00
|
"...The alleged Bulgarianness of Macedonians is usually centered around linguistic arguments about the similarities between the Bulgarian and Makedonian languages. But such arguments again are flawed." The alleged Turkishness of the inhabitants of Kyrdzhali region is usually centered around linguistic arguments about similarities between the Turkish and East-Rhodopian languages. But such arguments are again flawed... The population of the Eastern Rhodopes are in fact descendants of the Thracian tribes, mainly Odrissians, they had an enormous contribution to the classic world, including Orpheos.  They have nothing to do with the turco-mongols. How do you like that?
Just imagine, my friend(candidate for proud descendant of Orpheos)  that the so "loved" by you "Vyzroditelen proces" continued 70 years, what would be impact on your ethnic turkish consciousness? Would this make you "an ancient thracian" or something?
And BTW, the presence of the Turkish state in the Rhodopes is shorter, than that of the Bulgarian in Macedonia. |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 08:10
Very well said! ------------- |
Posted By: jovan_tasevski
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 10:30
|
Modern Bulgarians are escential Tartars,Thracians and Macedonians. Tartars are easilly distinguised from Thracians and Macedonians, with there asiatic featurres, asian eyes and large cheeck bones. Watch Planeta TV and you will see most of Bulgarian Singers carry this feture. Most Bulgarians are ethnic Macedonians in every concivable aspect except name. bulgarians have stealed the language from macedonians and occupy a part of macedonia.
 |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 10:34
Please, my Bulgarian friends, don't bother to counter his provocations. He's out already. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 13:30
Have I claimed I am an ancient Thracian ever in this forum? My origins are from the Konya region in Turkey, my ancestors settled in the Balkans around the 15th-16th century. I also have some mixtures from Lebanon.
The vazroditelen process attempted to make us bulgarian through violant assimilation and forceful pursuasion. As expected, it failed. The barbaric practice of choosing another man's name for them, banning their language and religion could not have continued for too long, it was already drawing international condemnation. On the other hand Macedonians define themselves as such today as free man through their own choosing, and unless you employ the same assimilatory policies against them, I fail to see how you will purusuade them in their alleged "Bulgarianness". I tremble in trepidation even contemplating the idea of pursuading the above individual in his Bulgarianess.
The Turkish state was never present in the Rhodopes. The Turkish nation never existed prior to the 1920s. And when exactly was the last time Macedonia was part of Bulgaria? 12th century? ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 13:55
Thank you bg_turk. You prove yourself that i am right - now is clear to me that the roots of your problem with the bulgarian people are hidden in the communistic "rebirth" process between 1984 - 1989.
Today one part of Macedonia is a part of Bulgaria. In the time of WWI and WWII most of the territory of Macedonia was part of Bulgaria. ------------- |
Posted By: Desperado
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 15:08
|
"Have I claimed I am an ancient Thracian ever in this forum? My origins are from the Konya region in Turkey, my ancestors settled in the Balkans around the 15th-16th century. I also have some mixtures from Lebanon."
No, you're a Thracian(from the very ancient ones). I've seen East-Rhodopians: they don't look Asian, like us the turco-mongols-so they're Thracians. 
Of course everyone has the right for self-determination. But....to steal parts from the history of his neighbours, to "invent" historical myths and new languages for his particular political needs-it's acrime. Even without the repressions and violence which had occured anytime the ruling nation in Macedonia changed. " I tremble in trepidation even contemplating the idea of pursuading the above individual in his Bulgarianess."-Well i see from now that Komnenos will be a really hard case.
I'm not trying to persuade anyone in anything, but I'm tired of reading science fiction stories presented like the only true and holy history. Just look at the post of jovan_tasevski:"bulgarians have stealed the language from macedonians and occupy a part of macedonia". Is this normal? As long as you consider the language of this person(and mine too) as the language of Alexander The Great, for me you're a Thracian-and no neo-Ottoman and pan-turkic propaganda can convince me in the opposite
|
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 15:19
Whereas Bulgaria has never manipulated history for political reasons. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 15:21
You are wrong. My problem is not with the Bulgarian people, my problem is with those that try to make people seem Bulgairan against their will. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:15
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forget what he says.He's a Turko-Mongolian |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:31
Yeah!  He really looks like that!
------------- |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:34
He does have some Tatar features to him. Maybe that's how he realized he was a Tataro-Bulgarian after all just kidding------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 17:13
So you have`nt any problems with the bulgarian ethnic belonging of Ljubcho Georgievski. Is that right? ------------- |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 17:18
Who am I to question the Bulgarianness of Ljubcho Georgievski if he has declared himself Bulgarian in the first place. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Isbul
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 17:42
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I wonder how much he waited to get this bulgarian citizenship.Afaik the procedure to prove your bulgarian root is slow and clumsy ------------- 
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Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 17:53
That`s true. Our government must work better to facilitate that procedure. ------------- |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 13:28
|
BG_Turk, Macedonians may be whatever they want to be indeed. And have all rights to their selfdetermination and history. But the funny thing is that most of historical personalities that they respect (except Alexander the Great) call themselves Bulgarians from Macedonia. Miladinovi brothers with their Bulgarian songs is probably a good example. So, if they want to biuld a paralel history they are welcome. But they a really boring claming that we steal their history. ------------- . |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 13:39
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I agree with you Anton.
------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 16:15
Yeah, or to return back stolen EGNs  ------------- . |
Posted By: violentjack
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 06:48
|
There are no 2 million Macedonians, some 1.2 million, and out of those, some were forcefully assimilated Bosniaks. Bulgarians are going even higher, so thay are claiming Goranis,area in Kosovo near border with Macedonians to be Bulgarian Muslims. ------------- Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 07:38
Well, the bulgarians just are saying the truth. ------------- |
Posted By: violentjack
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 09:33
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Which is? Goranis are Bulgarians? You know where is Gora? ------------- Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite |
Posted By: violentjack
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 09:35
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By the way here is Gorani forum, so you can ask them, or even read, how they declare themself http://nasagora.1.forumer.com/ - http://nasagora.1.forumer.com/ http://www.nasagora.info/slike.html - http://www.nasagora.info/slike.html http://www.nasagora.info/ - http://www.nasagora.info/ ------------- Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 14:09
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I know that site. There are few gorani songs for listening.
It will be the same if i ask you: Do you know where is Sarajevo? ------------- |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 20:02
|
Here is an interesting article about the Gorans: http://www.sofiaecho.com/article/the-bulgarian-macedonian-brew/id_17134/catid_5 - http://www.sofiaecho.com/article/the-bulgarian-macedonian-brew/id_17134/catid_5 Some of them seem to consider themselves as Macedonian others as Bulgarian. Bosnia also seems to have claims on them. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: violentjack
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 06:00
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No, actually not, we wont gain anything with that. Bosniaks in Kosovo mainly live in Pec area:Vitomirica and Prizren Some of Prizren Bosniaks even came to Sofia, ask for citizenship, and they told they you were not Bulgarians, so i dont know can you be humiliated any more ------------- Bosnjaci,probudite se ili nestanite |
Posted By: Desperado
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 18:45
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim6461wt5.jpg">
http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpim6496yb3.jpg"> 
The Macedonian phalanx reborn! |
Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2006 at 09:48
------------- |
Posted By: Red_Lord
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 08:11
From where is this pic???(Makedonia or...) ------------- "The slave is fighting for freedom,free is fighting for perfectness" Yane Sandanski |
Posted By: Red_Lord
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 08:17
After 100 years serbian represions even macedonians have forgotten their bulgarian origin.Goran is very popular name in Makedonia and in Southwest Bulgaria. I can say you that even in Albania there are many arbanasies that call themselfs bulgars. ------------- "The slave is fighting for freedom,free is fighting for perfectness" Yane Sandanski |
Posted By: akritas
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 08:28
I don't think so that the Goran is a common name in Macedonia. The most common names are Yorgos and Yiannis. Except if you mean the Slavic part of Macedonia. ------------- 
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Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:04
Macedonia is one, indivisible and belongs to its Macedonian people whether grecophonic, slavophonic or albanophonic. ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: Yiannis
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 03:54
|
Macedonia is a geographical term, same as Thessaly or Thrace.
The majority of those living in the FYROM part and Slavs and Albanians, of those in the Greek part are Greeks and in the Bulgarian part Bulgarians.
------------- The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
Posted By: xristar
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 12:43
Is indivisible? So, who gets the 'whole' Macedonia? And don't tell me the 'macedonian people'. Because it seems that the 'macedonian people' largely disagree with eachother.
In fact Macedonia is just soil, divisible as any land. Macedonia as a historical name belongs to the Greeks (and that is something some must figure out eventually). As a geographical name it belongs to Greece, Albania, Bulgaria and FYROM. ------------- 
Defeat allows no explanation Victory needs none. It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly. |
Posted By: nikodemos
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 14:36
This is the joke of the day,indeed, |
Posted By: bg_turk
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 16:10
Who knows, maybe one day all Macedonians may decided to unite ... ------------- http://www.journalof911studies.com - http://www.journalof911studies.com |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 07-Sep-2006 at 19:13
One day all "macedonians" from FYROMacedonia will unite with the other part of the bulgarian people again. I promise. ------------- |
Posted By: xristar
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 10:48
There is no macedonian nation, which means that the albanians feel albanians and the greeks feel greeks. Now, the slavs don't feel bulgarian for a number of historical reasons, but that doesn't mean that a macedonian nation exists. -------------
Defeat allows no explanation Victory needs none. It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly. |
Posted By: perikles
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 11:04
YES YES YES
This is the correct aspect.
Now historically FYrom of Bulgarians may think whatever they want. The history it doesn't change. After all Leonidas said something to the PErsians which is suitable to al those people who have regional claims from Greece.
Μολών Λαβέ. Come and get it. ------------- Samos national guard. 260 days left. |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 07:25
Funny to observe how you try to avoid name Macedonians for present Macedonian nation  ------------- . |
Posted By: akritas
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 07:34
Your country (Bulgaria) recoqnize the Macedonian nation Anton?
and I repeat nation -------------
|
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 08:07
Actually, I dunno. We officially recognized Macedonian language. That's for sure. ------------- . |
Posted By: akritas
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 08:14
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I didn't ask you for the language.I asked you for the Macedonian nation
Yes or No ? -------------
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 08:19
I said already that I do not know. ------------- . |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 08:43
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You should answer question! Did your nation make this crime? did they recognise Macedonian nation?
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 08:57
My nation did more evil crimes  My question was why greek co-forumers do not call them f.e. indo-europeans or christians or euroasians or just people  Why "slavs"?------------- . |
Posted By: akritas
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 10:16
I want to see your face when will born in the North East borders (if these will be change) and start to claim
-We are the real ansectors of the Mehmet III and not the Turks that steal our history
-We are these that conquered the Constantinople and not the Turks that steal our history
-We are these that born the Kemal and not the Turks that steal our history
and of course with the blessings of the only superpower!!!
-------------
|
Posted By: akritas
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 10:18
First tell why Bulgaria doesn't recognized them as nation  and then I will answer you in your question. -------------
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 12:38
This is what you, Greeks, are actually doing with all neighboring nations. ------------- . |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 12:42
Then we will not hear your answer for a liong time, akritas But even now nobody call them other way than Makedonci (which is actually Makedonians). Because they live in a geographical place called Macedonia. ------------- . |
Posted By: The Chargemaster
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 12:45
Actually Bulgaria recognized the FYROMacedonian nation, but Bulgaria will newer recognize a such thing like a "slavic macedonian people". A FYROMacedonian nation really exists. But there don`t exist a such thing like "ethnic macedonian people". http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13393&PN=1 - I will specify the difference between the termins "nation" and "people": | "Nation" are all the citizens of one political state, who are living, working and payind taxes to that political state. They can be of many & different ethnic groups. "People" is something diferent. These are human beings from the same ethnic group or from few ethnic groups, but with very very big similarities between them(as between the dialects of one language). The history is also important thing for the formation of one people, but in the "slavic-macedonian" case - all is clear - according to the history they are definetly not different from the other bulgarians. And because of that: there don`t exist "slavic macedonian nation", but there really exist "macedonian"(FYROMian) nation. And that nation is composite mainly of macedonian bulgarians(as a part of the bulgarian people) and albanians(as a part of the albanian people). |
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is international. At least I know that in French it is with the same root. It seems to be from one of those international languages like Greek, Latin, French or English. Does anybody knows the ethymology of this word?