http://www.pbs.org/previews/1421/ - http://www.pbs.org/previews/1421/ #

1421: THE YEAR CHINA DISCOVERED AMERICA?, airing on PBS Wednesday, July 21, investigates a theory that could turn the conventional view of world history on its head: the startling possibility that a daring Chinese admiral, commanding the largest wooden armada ever built, reached America 71 years before Columbus.

The documentary examines the mystery surrounding China's legendary Zheng He and the spectacular Ming fleet of treasure junks he commanded in the early 15th century. The special provides a history of the known journeys of Zheng He's fleet and an account of new information uncovered by Gavin Menzies, a former British submarine commander who has spent nine years trying to prove that Zheng He reached America decades before Columbus. Menzies, author of the best-selling book 1421: The Year China Discovered the World, has assembled evidence that he believes substantiates his theory.

The first part of the documentary presents 15th-century China as an emerging super-nation with an armada of treasure junks that dominated the Indian Ocean. At the behest of Chinese emperor Zhu Di, Zheng He sailed this fleet to far-flung outposts throughout the eastern hemisphere, established major ports and extended the commercial reach of "the Middle Kingdom" far beyond its previous bounds. The first segment recounts this story through re-enactments, extensive location filming and innovative computer graphics imaging models of the fleet itself.

1421: THE YEAR CHINA DISCOVERED AMERICA? then investigates the major historical mystery that arises from Menzies' theory: Could this incredible and intrepid fleet have shown the European explorers the way to the west - reaching America's shores decades before Columbus? Menzies seeks to prove his extraordinary theory by retracing the steps he believes the Chinese took from Africa to Europe to the Caribbean and along the eastern coast of the United States. The program examines the evidence behind his theory, then puts it to the test, drawing together historical accounts, archaeology and information from consultations with contemporary historians, archaeologists and scientists. The results are often dramatic and - like Menzies' theory itself - highly controversial.

Having read Menzie's 1421 cover-to-cover, I'm astonished that some of his findings aren't being taken seriously by the majority of the academic community.  It seems many of his theories are somewhat supported, and should at least be discussed by historians.

I myself believe it is certainly possible that the Chinese could have circumnavigated the globe before Columbus, it is a (sadly common) Eurocentric view that European must have been the first to do it.

I've read Menzie's theories . . . does anyone have anything to disprove his arguements?  Or to back them up further?

Something like that, if you haven't read the book Jalisco I'd recommend it, it's very fancifal.

They say that mexican chickens are actually chinese chickens and that certain indian tribes have "unique" asian DNA.

I just love the age of exploration though, when there was still some mystery on this earth.

But that would be true even if you ascribed to the most conservative of the ice age - land bridge theories as well. 

They (PBS) want the most controversial theories presented because controversy makes good headlines.  Makes bad science and history - but good headlines.  I recently saw another PBS "History" "Documentary" recently where they discussed Clovis and Folsom points and one of their theorists made the assertion that European DNA found in certain tribes in North America today is there due to contact with the Lascaux cave painters who traveled across the Atlantic in their canoes and brought their spear point technology with them.  Gosh - like there has never been another chance for European DNA to mix with Native American?  I want to know who kept this tribe in a bubble for the past 500 years and allowed no contact.

I think that the west coast arguments for contact with Asia are much more probable than any of Menzie's argements.  His research is thin and his conclusions are sometimes really out there.  The west coast artifacts have not been fully explained - and probably will not be - but offer better possibilities for speculation.

BTW - JL - I think the Mexican chickens were brought by the aliens who dropped off the lost tribes  - I have seen the pictographs on the pyramids and am sure that I remember a series of reliefs of aliens bringing chickens.  Isn't that why they call it "Chicken Itza"? 

I saw the same program, I do not doubt in the least  that the Chinese visited the Americas in 1421.  The program was really interesting.

There is no doubt that the Vikings landed in Lanse-Aux-Meadows, Newfoundland sometime around 1000 CE as there have been a number of Viking settlements found there along with probably a thousand artifacts.  I myself visited the site this past summer.  Its really interesting. 

The question here is, however, could the Chinese have done even some of what Menzie's suggests?  Or, as is suggested in the review above, did the Chinese make contact with the Americas even before 1421? The question is a very important one, because if China made contact with the Americas before Europeans, perhaps that is something that can be taken out of the list of European "discoveries" (or rip-offs, like the printing press or gun powder) thereby hopefully reducing some of the sickeningly Eurocentric history out there . . .

"The question here is, however, could the Chinese have done even some of what Menzie's suggests? "

the chinese were certainly capable of doing that with their treasure fleet.

but america was undeveloped at the time.

the chinese did land in west africa, india, java, lots of islands on the pacifics and indian ocean.

they, however, set up no colonies and didn't claim land because they felt that they had already achieved the most satisfactory civlization. it wasn't the chinese culture to occupy foreign land. they basically went for a tour and brought some foreign animals and items to china.

the Chinese easily had the technolgy to do it, in fact Zheng He's ships were far larger and more advanced than any contemporary European ship, however, there is NO evidence, and Im sorry, Im not gonna believe the house is haunted until I see a ghost myself.

Also from the Ming perspective, why send ships across the vast empty pacific?  it made more sense for Zheng to go where he went: to the west, from Africa to Mecca, at least he knew there would be markets there.

Damn...I actually feel some sympathy for those few Chinese who still claim China did explore NA.  But Menzie should have had some very concrete evidence to support him...like a huge shipwreck in california or something. 

Tobodai had just mentioned a great point.  Zheng Ho was a Muslim...and Muslims have a mandatory trip to Mecca if I'm correct (at least those who can afford it).  And so, it's logical for him to visit the West. 

But the East?

"But the East?"

the main point of his trip was not to visit mecca but to serve the emperor.

he also visited indonesia, africa, india and lots of places not related to his religion.

saying that he went for religious purposes instead of serving the emperor is wrong.

Ummm.. I didn't completely claim that Zheng Ho wanted to visit west at his will, nor completely because of religion.  Just that he had the fact in his mind as he journeyed on.

"I didn't completely claim "

so what did you "PARTIALLY" claim? i like ur wording sometimes. from "monster" bow to not claiming "completely". it's brought me lots of joys...

As an archaeologist, I keep my proverbial ear to the proverbial ground and know for a fact that the Chinese landed on the coast of California in around the period in question. 

Reason 1:  There have been ships' anchors discovered off the coast of San Francisco by fishing vessels that pulled them aboard with their fishing nets.  Initial study stated that they appeared to be the same type used by Chinese warships, that in the 1420's doubled as trade vessels.  

Reason 2:Closer investigation--Carbon-14 dating and metallurgical testing was able to confirm the date and origin of the anchorheads to 14th century Chinese. 

My other concern thus far is that no one seems to have mentioned that the Scandinavians via Greenland and Iceland are known to have sailed along the coast of Labrador, Canada and archaeologists located and excavated a site known as Vinland (taken from the study of the Norse Sagas, that confirmed the Viking presence). 

Other factors in this discussion to be considered are:

1.  While dominant theory states that humans did not cross from the Old World to the New World until around 15-20,000 years ago holds, there are several sites that challenge the above theory.

    A.  A site in South America that was dated to 40,000 YBP (years before present) with stone tools.

   B.  Archaeologists, led by a professor, named Albert Goodyear from the University of South Carolina has conducted excavations and Carbon-14 dating on samples from the Topper site, located on the east coast of the state and has yielded dates of 30-50,0000 YBP.  The site includes stone tools. 

Now the obvious question now is not really when so much as how and where.  How did people populate the New World?  And where did they originate?  Mnay scholars have traditionally held to the Land Bridge theory, where hunter-gatherers crossed from Asia by way of a landbridge located between present-day Alaska and Siberia during a high point in the last great Ice Age, which left sea levels at an extreme low.  Many of the same scholars have scoffed at the notion that people could have crossed by simlar land bridges created (or at least produced larger islands to hop-scotch across) the North Atlantic. 

With the most recent data, scientists are having to rethink the possibility that people crossed over to the New World at various times, either via land bridges from Asia or island-hopping via Polynesia and Europe.  Many would also point to the discovery of human remains on the shores of the Columbia River in Washington State.  The skeletal remains included the skull.  The morphology of the skull displays more charateristically European features and raied questions as to the ethnicity of the man.  The other interest in the skelton in question were the results of carbon-14 dating which placed him at around 8,500 YBP and a large bifacial projectile point (stone spear point) embedded in the man's hip bone.  The skeleton is known as Kennewick Man.

Ask your grammar teacher how does the subject of a phrase relate to its "verb". 

That's awkward.  China must have either crossed the straight in argentina or cape of good hope to reach the carribeans.  Or of course, it could have spread by land or they could have walked there by land.  But then, it were the mayans who lived there in the first place...They who erected gargantuan piramids...who could explain for such measurements (remember that they had to have the correct proportions for their piramids). 

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I have a daring Questions for you people who support Zeng ho.  I've recently read an article of this Carthaginian who circumnavigated africa in the time before Rome.  And this guy have mentioned this change in sun rise, due to the change in location created by being in a different zone(either north of equator or below).  Has Zheng Ho's trip ever mention such phenomenon?

The accomplishments of the Chinese fleet are admirable - but Menzies - in my mind - does damage to their reputation by dragging in such a long list of unproven and disproven myths. 

He lost me completely at that mention of the Newport Tower.  I have lived in Rhode Island for most of my life, and everyone here who has done any serious research on the topic knows that it was a colonial era windmill built by Benedict Arnold, an early governor of the colony (I believe he was an ancestor of the famous traitor of the same name).  His will (ca 1677) even lists the Tower, in which he says "My body I desire and appoint to be buried at ye North East corner of a parcell of ground containing three rod square being of and lying in my land in or near ye line or path from my dwelling house leading to my Stone built Wind-mill, in ye town of Newport"  http://www.bigbertis.com/mill/wilofgov.htm - http://www.bigbertis.com/mill/wilofgov.htm  and http://www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/arnold.htm - http://www.redwoodlibrary.org/tower/arnold.htm  lists a group of reference articles in which the Tower is listed as resembling one in Chesterton, England, where Arnold was raised.  This is the first historical mention of the tower that exists.  

I and many other locals assume that there would have been some prior mention of the tower had it existed before that time.  During his 1499 voyage, Amerigo Vespucci sailed into Narragansett Bay, but made no mention of the Tower, which would have been plainly visible to anyone entering the Bay.  In 1524, Verrazano recorded entering the Bay and trading with the Narragansett Indians, but made no mention of the Tower.  Dutch traders in the 1630's used the island now called Dutch Island as a trading post in Naragansett Bay - but made no mention of the Tower.  William Coddington founded the town of Newport in 1639, but there is no record of the Tower in early town documents.

If the rest of Menzies' scholarship is a bad as this - his premise rests on very shaky ground.

Just would like to say Zheng He was a Muslim and even went to Hajj...Great man.

And all this discussion about "who discovered America" is totally insulting and degrading towards Native Americans!

Those anchors are made of stone (the doughnut shaped ones i presume you are talking about), thus metalurgy is out.

You can't carbon date stuff that has been underwater.

AFAIK, they've been dated to fishing boats used by Chinese Americans/Mexicans (pre-independance Spanish Mexico rather) in the late 1700s and 1800s.

Malayalam (sp?) to be precise, from Indian sailors working on Portugese boats. And the Newport tower is too young.

Hmm, sorry about double spacing, am typing this on a different computer and i don't know why its doing that.

This is not a stab at muslims. I was trying to get across that was Zheng He only a good man because he went to Hajj? That is not a good way to judge a man.

Any Chinese exploration of the new world could have been accomplished by sailing along the northern Pacific rim. People forget that you can sail from the Eurasia to the Americas and still stay along the coast. A feat that humans achieved 20-40 thousands of years ago.