Aryan Indians
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of the South Asian subcontinent
Forum Discription: The Indian sub-continent and South Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13035
Printed Date: 10-May-2024 at 09:15
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Aryan Indians
Posted By: Guests
Subject: Aryan Indians
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 06:55
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I was wondering how many of the Whiter looking Indians are there in terms of numbers???? Does racism still exist between the groups, the ones with the much darker skin and the lighter coloured ones????
Did they ever fight wars against one another????
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Replies:
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 09:23
Indo-Aryan 72%, Dravidian 25%, Mongoloid and other 3%
Supposedly the wars were fought initially between aryans and dravidians and then the indo-aryans and the sakas/hunas/parthians etc. (scythians/huns). But, 2 of the hindu dieties are dravidian kings so there had to have been some sort of assimilation. ------------- 
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 09:59
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72% mmmm thats alot, i thought it would have been a lot less than that.
Show me a picture that would signify what the common Indian-Aryan would loosely look like.
How common is Blonde-Brunette hair and variation in eye color.
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Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 10:43
Indo-Aryans are a mixture of the indigenous people of eastern pakistan/india and those who crossed over the hind-kush. Aryavarta was their homeland; I say was because today the genetic makeup has considerably changed amongst many so you have dominant and recessive genes in the Indian population and their wars with invading huns, scythians and other tribes.
Blonde-Brunette is definitely there in north india but more interestingly it is even quite prominent amongst the indegenous population of northern India where blonde-brunette hair along with eye color variation is complimented with darker skin.
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“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 12:32
There might be some with dark to mid brown hair, but there's no blondes in North India. The eye colour is definitely bullsh*t. I've never met an Indian with genuine blue or green eyes (the odd one might exist but this might have been from some randy British troops). The only people from the subcontinent I've met in real life with blue or green eyes on a fairly large scale (10-20%) from the subcontinent have been Pathans.
The 72% Aryan make up of India is just nonsense. I've seen that number on some website but they might be talking about language rather than ethnicity. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:04
 somebody's jealous btw its Indo-Aryan that make up 72% of the population. Pathans = Offspring of raped punjabi women at the hands of the Pashtuns.
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“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:15
It's nothing to do with jealousy, I class my own eyes as brown, my grandfather has blue eyes, many of my cousins green eyes. You're the one who is trying to convince people that blue and green eyes are indigenous to North Indians. Never heard so much bullsh*t..it's the same as the Hindutva that claim man originated out of India.
You keep thinking Pathans are that, you've proved your historical knowledge accuracy many times  ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:59
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Teldeinduz brown hair and blue/grey eyes do exist in Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal, but this because they are mountaneous areas not because of "Randy British soldiers" as you put it.
In Maharastra there is a Brahmin caste called "chitpavan" who have grey eyes so much so that they are called "cat eyes"
But who care, i personally prefer jet black hair.
With regards to the Aryan make up of India, well India has a population of 1 billion, thats 1 in 6 people, so if lets say 20 % are Aryan that's 200 million.
Teldeinduz you should read my post on "something strange in Bollywood" page 6, as i explain about Peshawar Kapoors.
I have a kapoor Friend from Peshawar and a khanna friend from Kabul, so it is "straight from the horses mouth" so to speak.
Khatris also have a very close relationship with my community, saraswati Brahmins.
Vedam
PS i speak always with respect, i am not intentionally offending. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:23
I know for a fact blue and green eyes are very common in Gilgit, Northern Kashmir.
Jammu, possibly a couple, I'm not discounting Jammu, but I dont consider it North Indians anyway.
I do not believe that the indigenous people (or even the average migrants) of Himachal Pradesh and Uttaranchal have blue or green eyes in any significant quantity. If you have pictures of people from Himachal Pradesh or Uttaranchal like you say then post them so I can see.
Pictures from Himachal Pradesh.
    Uttaranchal
 Again if you have pictures of what you say, then show them..I can post lots of pictures of people from Gilgit (Northern Kashmir) with blue or green eyes (I can post lots of Pathans if you like).
Chitpavans are from the Afghan border with Pakistan. They're not indigenous to India.
"The Chitpavan Brahmins of Maharashtra are often mentioned as a caste that stands out by its physical type. Their slightly more “Nordic” build and the occurrence of blue eyes among them look like the perfect evidence for the theory that the Brahmins are the descendents of the Nordic Aryans who invaded India in 1500 BC. In fact, it is only during the initial Islamic onslaught that the Chitpavans migrated from the Afghan borderland to their present habitat."
http://voi.org/books/ait/ch49.htm - http://voi.org/books/ait/ch49.htm
This isnt the issue. I like green myself
20% is a possibility though even that is a bit high in my opinion. But I take your point.
Peshawar Kapoors are Pathans. I gave links from Raj Kapoor in which he says he is Pathan, not Khatri or Punjabi.
So do I strangely enough.
Khatris are Punjabis from what i know. Never heard of Sarawasti Brahmins. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:30
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Before I went to college, did that give me the right to say that green-eyed Pathans didn't exist?
No.
We don't to get to meet every single person in the world. A lot of things exist that we don't get to see.
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:41
I'm not interested in "RateDesi" or such sites as some of the people on those sites use fake pictures or fake something else up, like most chat sites. If you have any pictures of North Indians as you say then post them here (poor people would be good, links would be great). ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:02
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*Gone* Teldeinduz was online and probably viewed the pic already.
I will see if my mom has any old pictures from her hometown, and see if I have any pics of old friends.
The thing is is that eye color can be deceiving in pictures, just like pictures can make your skin color look different. I got another friend with green eyes obviously won't show up in her black and white yearbook picture.
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Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:13
This is what an Afghan guy told me.
PATHANS=FAKE PASHTUNS
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:24
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A lot of Afghans say that Pathans are the term given to Punjabi Pathans. Pathan was coined by the British to refer to the Pashtuns. In Urdu people refer to Pashtuns as Pathans, and a lot of Pashtuns/Pathans in NWFP refer to themselves as Pathans when speaking English. I do not care what nationalist Afghans have to say of it. As for the pic, I'd say hazel perhaps & with nice eyes. If you have more show them, but if you have any of an average to poor Indian in India with a link, that would be ideal. Older pictures from the 60s to 70s in India would be something worth seeing also ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 17:04
Oh yeah...here's this guy from Rajasthan
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Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 17:18
No, Pathan was being coined throughout while the Afghan Pashtuns were raiding your lands and cupulating with your female ancestors; Telde when will you come out of your little hole and face the truth?
LMAO!!!!! Telde you little perv from hazara hahahaha dude I know pathans all too well and you're just the epitomy of one, now go jack off to your lil paki mujra wali on youtube
 Now quit stalling as RajputGirl and I have put up some credible pics on here and there are more where those came from so im guessing % wise we're probably almost at par with the pakistanis in the % of dirty blonde and eye color variations. -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 18:20
Oh TeldeInduz i'm not going to get into this Janab, do you think i go round taking pictures of fair skinned Indians.
I am from near Simla originally In Himachal their are fair skinned ones there.
Why exactly is Jammu and Kashmir not North Indian? I'm sure as i gather you are Pathan you have heard of the Hindu kush, believe me we spread further then India punjab.
With regard to Chitpavans being not indegenious to India, what does that mean? a lot of the people in North India entered at various times ie Aryans, Kushana, Greek. Scytians, Huns, Mughals. You have a weak defence, its like someone saying i'm not English i'm Viking who came over from Sweden 1400 years ago
With Kapoor i told you to read my post in "something strange about Bollywood" but if you want to get to technical they are actually from LLaypur (faisalabad).
I keep telling you everyone from Peshawar calls themselves Pathan.
I have Khatri relations, and kapoor is "pukka Khatri" they are one of the highest subsects. Read my post as i said.
Delhi is full of Kapoor Khatris from Partition, i have khatris relations and Saraswati Brahmins, originally located near the Saraswati river are the original Priests of Khatris of which Kapoor, Khanna, and Malhotra are the elite Khatris.
Can you not see how ridiculous this is for me. Imagine if i was telling you that .. no you are wrong khans are khatris, NOT PATHANS. Think about it. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 19:35
I am not denying that one or two Sikhs from Rajasthan are "Nordindid" - I've actually seen a picture of one with blue eyes to, I know that the odd one does exist. I just believe
A racial classification of India would put a small proportion of Punjabi Sikhs and Brahmin Uttar Pradeshis as having the "Nordindid" features. _______________________________________________ Nordinid strain by definition
Another long-headed strain with comparatively lower but longer head and tall stature and possessing a long face and prominent narrow long nose. It its purest form it is found in the North-west Himalayan tribes like the Kaffirs and the Pathan where the skin colour is predominantly of a rosy white tint and an appreciable number have grey-blue eyes and chestnut hair. In the plains of Northern India, among the Sikhs of the Punjab and the Brahmin of the U.P. the skin colour changes to a light transparent brown. Here also there is a small proportion of people having light eyes and brownish hair. Among this type also the hair is usually straight and the pilous system well developed.
http://www.athelstane.co.uk/tchodson/ind_ethn/ind_ethn.htm - http://www.athelstane.co.uk/tchodson/ind_ethn/ind_ethn.htm
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According to the above there are a small proportion of Sikhs from the Punjab and Brahmin from Uttar Pradesh, as opposed to an appreciable proportion of Pathans and Northern Kashmiris that have grey-blue eyes. It is up to you whether you believe this or not.
If you take into account what happened during partition, the Sikhs of the Punjab in what is modern day Pakistan all moved to the Punjab in India, so this small proportion of coloured eyes in modern day Indian Punjab amongst Sikhs actually originated in Pakistan - I suspect they mixed with some Westerly tribes while they ruled in Punjab (Sikhs controlled the Punjab for a while in the 17th, 18th centuries)
As for the Brahmin of Uttar Pradesh, I guess a small proportion of them do exist with the features you say, but I have looked at pictures of Brahmins from Uttar Pradesh and it must only be a small proportion as I cant find many pictures like they say, so the gene did not arise in that population. They've just come about through mixing.
Here's a couple of pictures of Uttar Pradesh Brahmins, and though in one of them they're definitely light skinned, you can see they dont seem to have those features.
 http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/low/south_asia/4077774.stm - http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/2/low/south_asia/4077774.stm
 http://www.hindu.com/2005/06/10/stories/2005061008120100.htm - http://www.hindu.com/2005/06/10/stories/2005061008120100.htm
My own theory is that like the Chipavan Brahmins of Maharashtra, these Brahmins and Punjabi Sikhs have had some contact with the Nordindid types from the Afghan borderland, or perhaps they came with the Aryans, either is a possibility, but if they came with the Aryans there'd be more Brahmins with Nordindid features since mixing of the Brahmins was limited.
I'll need to look up Uttar Pradesh Brahmins, but they only represent about 0.4% of Indian society, and of these only a small proportion have Nordindid features. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:19
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I have found Indians to be very inherently insecure people especially when it comes to the issue of colour, looks though I think this has more to do with religion than actual fact. I remember some of my indian co-workers were quite extatic when I told them I would be visiting their country for business, having hung around them for quite some time I felt comfortable.
I then travelled to India & spent 6 weeks there, it was an interesting trip but one that brought many surprises. For one, the endemic poverty I saw was nothing like I had seen before(I had never seen people living and dying on the streets before), but secondly I got to see a whole range of what Indians look like as I travelled thru delhi, Kashmir, Hyderabad and the Calcutta. I had seen posters for Indian movies before arriving but they looked nothing like the indians I was seeing & I can tell u quite frankly, that Indians rarely have any fair or coloured features suggestive of an Aryan legacy infact many border on an african skin tone though retaining large eyes and typical indian noses, so I think the analogy is more of a linguistic or cultural one.
Infact, the majority of my co-workers who where sikhs(penjabi) where fairer(so to speak) and taller then the bulk of what I saw on my entire trip to India leading me to believe that only the those indians who fit the criteria of being fair/tall were immigrating to the west!(I know this seems extraordinary but this is what I honestly believed when I left India) I find it odd that the few odd ball or atypical individuals who have colored eyes or fair skin are taken as being 'normal' or representatice of/in India, which seems to be a projection of the caste system still very much present in India today. I was often quite surprised, when Indians would throw themselves at my feet as they had never seen me(a whiteman) before. I found it to be the worst type of degradation in human I had ever witnessed. Also, many times, I saw darker individuals pushed aside by other individuals(who in my eyes where equally as dark) because they felt themselves to be better? then when I joined the line, I would be given first class treatment to the front of the line.
People should be content with their skin tone, looks, regardless of wether its light or fair. To project themselves as being something else is dishonest, misleading and most off all an inherent issue of self-esteem. As some members in this thread keep stating that Indians are majority aryans(74%) i find that to be highly irresponsible. If anything I would put it below 1-2% who are Aryan, and thats assuming that they are hidden in some remote corner of India as I didnt see them. This thread seems to be promoting an innacurate and misleading assessment of India which is dishonest. There's no shame in being Brown. In the summer time, I too turn quite a dark shade of brown :) ------------- |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:25
Pathan wasnt coined by anyone other than the British. NWFP was a part of Afghanistan for a while, and it's not anymore..that is about the extent of it, and now many Afghans have settled in NWFP since Soviet times. Not sure what truth you're referring to..
That's so rich coming from a guy who searches for videos of the "Tawaif" on youtube.. I honestly thought you were Rajputgirl, but I could be wrong..no, I dont want you to prove it..
I do have a question though..why are you so hung up about proving that you have lots of blondes and blue/green eyes in your population. I admit Pathans are probably 10-20% Nordind, I really dont see how this is anything that requires proof. I just do not believe you that these features originated anywhere in India. For the record, I dont believe that the features originated in Afghan or Pakistan, I think it was a mass migration, but it is possible as Northern Pakistan, including NWFP can get bitterly cold in some areas.
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Fair skinned Indians definitely there's some.
Jammu is South Eastern Kashmir, I agree those people are fairly light skinned. I dont consider Jammu to be Indian, I dont think it represents Indian people at all. If anything the people have more in common with Pakistan (I'm not suggesting Jammu should go to Pakistan, I dont really care much about Kashmir, I think it's better if it's sorted out quickly).
I agree that there's a whole series of migrations that correspond to the features seen in countries, even in Pakistan. Perhaps 3000 years ago, my ancestors were in the Urals somewhere (I dont know I'm guessing). But I think the Chitpovans are just a break off of Pathans, they're an oddity in India, not a mass of people.
Your previous point about percentages in India meaning a lot of people is a good one, I agree with it. But I think even if you look at the actual figures there's not very many. Brahmins as an example form 4% of Indian society. Uttar Pradesh Brahmins form 0.4%. A small proportion of these have Nordid features, perhaps 0.04% of Indian society this means perhaps 400,000 with Nordindid features. There's perhaps 20% of Pathans in Pakistan with Nordindid features, so perhaps 4 million (total 20 million) amongst the Pathan population of Pakistan alone. Some Punjabis and Kashmiris (especially deep in Kashmir) also have Nordindid features, so I just think these features came from somewhere in modern day Pakistan - I know this will hurt the Hindutvists, but I like the sound of it
There's mixing perhaps for sure, and nowadays the filmstar Kapoors are thoroughly mixed. But the Kapoors are definitely Pathans. I have the reference somewhere, I'll find it for you.
Most people in Peshawar are Pathans, but if a Punjabi is in Peshawar, on his return do you think he will still call himself Pathan? To be fair, I know some Indian Muslims do call themselves Pathan and they're clearly not, but it's not a restricted label.
Khatris are Punjabi, not Pathan. That is how I define it. Can you give me a link for the Khatri Kapoors also?
The surname "Khan" is not restricted to Pathans. Some heavily mixed people retain the name, and some even use it. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:56
Telde for the record that guy is not a sikh he's a rajput...he probably hasn't even seen a sikh in his whole life and the closest thing to a sikh he knows is sunny deol from the movie 'border'. We don't think too highly of sikhs as the majority are jats and the jats themselves dont have a very honorable history regarding sikhism, many had deserted their Guru at the time of war (especially punjabi jats from Majha in bordering pakistan areas)
The hindu religion preaches equality it actually has alot to do with the brahmin monopoly on hinduism, which is slowly diminishing. The sikhs are considered a 2nd class citizen in India hence why they had to leave the country. But, if you think India is bad you need to catch a Flight to africa buddy, yea another thing Indians still have the might to woop your alexander arse back into helens loins so don't even think about venturing in here with those comments you cracker! Dont you have something better to do like taking your wife to bellydance classes?? -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 03:53
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Teldeinduz Uttar pradesh has apopulation of 180 million and has 9% Brahmins, the largest number. It is the hindu heartland, with varanasi, mathura ahyudya,
To find about kapoor just type it on wikipedia , or just type in Kapoor khatri on the net and you will get a million matrimonial sites or punjabi kapoor
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 04:12
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Tele, the average pasthun has a skin color which is "light". Many of the men, look darker since they are often out in the sun. This is true of all caucasoids
Skin color should always be taken on some unexposed part of the body.
I am sure they are light skinned Indians just as much as there are dark (Ulf Kirsten) Germans.
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Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 15:19
That man isn't Sikh. People need to stop assuming that only Sikhs wear turbans.
The Sikh turban and beard is different from the Rajput Hindus' turban and beard.
Here are some Sikh boys. See the difference? Their turbans aren't colorful like how the men in Rajasthan wear them, and their beards are tucked in.
 As far as Chitpavans are concerned, a lot of them look as Indian as they come, even if they do have "roots elsewhere." Like Vedam said, having roots elsewhere don't matter anymore. You're Indian at the end of the day.
Sonali Bendre and Madhuri Dixit are Chitpavans. Look up their pictures. They have dark hair, dark eyes, etc.
Um, what's your definition of a typical Indian nose? Indians can pop out with any type of nose. Even in my family, we have nasal variations. Mind you, we're all of the same kin!
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 02:10
Uttar Pradesh has 9% Brahmins in a population of 180 million..so what does that prove even if it's true (which it probably isnt, you have taken it from wiki, which is a bad source)
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There are about 4 million Brahmins in Uttar Pradesh, and this is the greatest concentration of Brahmins in India (4% of India is Brahmin).
4% of a billion = 40 million Brahmins in India
About 10 percent of India’s priestly Brahmin caste lives there (Uttar Pradesh)
http://www.tconline.org/worldview/focus/muslimworld/607142.html - http://www.tconline.org/worldview/focus/muslimworld/607142.html
Number of Brahmins in Uttar Pradesh - 4 million, not 18 million according to you.
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Of these 4 million a small proportion are Nordinidic so perhaps 2 or 4% which is 80,000. This is just for that Nordinidic class, which includes all colours of hair, eyes and skin.
In the end you're looking at perhaps 10,000 - 20,000 Uttar Pradesh Brahmins with the features you describe out of 180,000,000 (0.008%).
So, 0.008% of people from Uttar Pradesh look perhaps something like the person in the picture which constitutes 0.0016% of the Indian population. Even these figures are overestimates.
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Even if you consider 15,000 people in Uttar Pradesh to be like the person in the picture, how is this anything more than an aberration or an oddity in India?
Even the pictures show this. The Chaturvedis and Bharagavas are the two main Brahmin castes of Uttar Pradesh and none of the ones I see possess anything like those features you talk about
 This is a picture with the title "An Acharya of the Mathura Chaturvedi Sanskrit Mahavidhyalaya drawing the Swastik symbol on the head of a disciple during the 'Janau' ceremony in Mathura on Thursday. — PTI photo"
  Kalyan Singh, Brahmin, from Aligarh district Uttar Pradesh, former chief minister Uttar Pradesh.
So how are any of these people remotely Nordinidic with the features you say? Mathura is Uttar Pradesh and they're Chaturvedi Brahmins. They are a more lighter skinned people in India, but they dont look to be anything near Nordinidic.
Surnames arent really important at all. Khan is a common Pathan surname, but some people are so heavily mixed up with others, they look nothing like Pathans. Same applies to Kapoor. It's just a name, the fact is they lived in Peshawar for generations, and he called himself Pathan. You also do get non Muslim Pathans, for example, Jewish Pathans, and there's a couple of thousand Hindu and Sikh Pathans.
------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 02:20
Yeah, that's true Sparten. When I talk of light for Pashtuns I mean as light as Nordics, which is perhaps 5 to 15%. It's a lower estimate and the tan does make a difference in my judgement.
Pakistani cricket team is always a good indicator as it has a mixture of ethnicities. I think only two of them are Pathan, Younis Khan is from Mardan, Shahid Afridi from a bit further North I believe (Arshad Khan holds a Khan surname but has none of the features from what I can see. Whenever I search for Pathan on google I keep getting Irfan Pathan's pictures coming up!). Anyway, I think these two are a good representation of average Pathan colours and features..
   
I'm pretty sure it's not on such a large scale as some are trying to make out. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 02:58
I dont see why this has to be the case. You might be right, and I am not speaking with any knowledge on Sikh or Rajput dress code, but some Sikhs wear turbans, some Sikhs dont, some Sikhs wear a turban withthe hair knotted into a ball, there's many different styles. This Sikh has another style of turban
I actually said that the majority of Chitpovans do have dark hair and dark eyes, typical Indobrachids, not Nordinidids. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 05:10
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Okay...well I'm just letting you know that you shouldn't have quickly assumed that man was Sikh. :) When I said that he was from Rajasthan, it should have clicked that he was Rajput and not some Punjabi Sikh. ;)
When I posted that girl's picture, I wasn't trying to imply that she looked Nordic, Afghan, or whatever. Light eyes or having light skin doesn't make you magically look "un-Indian." We know what our people look like, regardless how much variation there is among us.
No offense, but what is up with the Pakistani obsession of looking Afghan or looking remotely anything like the people west of the sub-continental area? I have never heard so much preoccupation with Afghans, Persians and Arabs until I moved to Chicago (which is dominantly Pakistani).
I will agree that there are time where surnames don't accurately reflect someone's caste/ethnicity (name changes, remarriage/ adoption, inter-caste marriages, etc) But from my experience, such cases don't happen too often. Chances are that the overwhelming amount Kapoors are genuine Punjabis. I don't hear the Kapoor sisters claiming any Pathan ancestry. Do you have a source where this guy actually states, "I'm a Pathan."?
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Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 05:23
And, btw....An online site claims that MadhuBala is of Pathan descent, but she could easily pass for a legit North Indian. To be honest, I was surprised that she was ethnically Pathan (if that site is right).
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 06:16
Well, I'm Afghan ethnicity which is also known as the Pathan ethnicity, so I would want to look like an Afghan/Pathan - there's about 20 million Afghans/Pathans in Pakistan, in fact Peshawar has the densest concentration of Pathans in the world, and Pakistan has the most Pathans in the world, so there should be at least 20 million Pakistanis wanting to look Afghan/Pathan else something is wrong. I cant say about Punjabi or Sindhi Pakistanis, but I never met one where it was so important to look Arab or Persian (raises the question what does an Arab or Persian look like). You should ask Omar al Hashim, he's a Sindhi, would be interesting
. People often mix me up with countries west of the subcontinent but I prefer it when someone guesses Pakistan.
In the other thread
, Film India (the renowned magazine of 30s, 40s and 50s) made an observation about Prithviraj Kapoor saying, “ There is no place in the films for uncouth brawny Pathans who think they can make it as actors.” In his reply to Film India, Prithviraj said, “Baburao, do not provoke this Pathan.
http://www.deshvidesh.com/article%20HTML%20files/Four_Gen_Of_Kapoor.htm - http://www.deshvidesh.com/article%20HTML%20files/Four_Gen_Of_Kapoor.htm ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 06:37
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TeldeIndux you keep saying things that demand my response, are you playing a game with me
You tell that Brahmins are 4% of U.P, and 10% of the whole Brahmin community and use some Baptist Christian missionery link site. Oh come on.
Then you then deduce that Brahmins are 40 million.
U.P is the Hindu hartland with with many holy cities, add to this that 15% of Indians are from U.P and you think 4 million Brahmin total there. There is probably a million in Banaras.
Tell me what state would have the highest number of Brahmins Goa or Assam maybe
Ok these are some facts that you cannot argue with.
In the 1931 census taken by the British there were 15 million Brahmins, this is in the Whole subcontinent, including Pakistan and Bangadesh and now after 75 years it is 40 million you think when the rest of the population has exploded (the whole subcontinent has gone from 300 million in 1931 to 1300 million in 2006.
These are facts.
Secondly i never once said U.P Brahmins are Nordic, i just said you do find some fair haired fair eyed Indian in the Mountaineous parts.
With Kapoor they did not live in Peshawar for generations, but only 1 or 2 they are originally from LLaypur (Faisalabad)
Yes you are correct Madhubala is Pathan, from U.P, (khan surname) if i took your line i would argue she must be Hindu
also Shah rukh is as well from Delhi, not your blue eyed and fair typeThey are Pathans but i couldn't tell you much more, i wouldn't presume to tell you as i think you are a Pathan, so you are the Ustad, yet you are telling me about my communties and how many there are and what number. I can only laugh ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 07:13
Dont respond then. I'm not forcing you to.
I did a search for it and that's what I came up with. If you have the results of the 2001 census for Brahmins in Uttar Pradesh, then post the link, that would be better.
I'm not saying you're wrong. If you have links besides wiki, then those might be correct. I found one which said that, I'll probably find another which says another thing, so unless you have the census data I doubt anyone will know. But it's not really important. I dont see what the number of Brahmins in Uttar Pradesh has to do with anything, as most of them just look slightly fairer than the average Indian. You can post pictures of the neighbourhood though if you like..
UP Brahmins arent Nordic in the slightest. A couple might be Nordinidic..How many Brahmins live in the mountains would you say?
Lol, they lived for at least 3-4 generations there, and most likely more, there was a job going at a police station for 1 generation in Llayapur, the link is in the other thread.
Dont know what this means. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:08
1) West of the Indus, is west of the Sub Continental area.
2) Both Tele and I are Pathan, or more accuratly Pashtun.
As for surnames, I should clear up the confusion about "Khan". All it means is "belongs to". So Shahid Khan Afridi, means Shahid of the Afridi tribe. It is used on its own for a surname as well (indeed mine is also Khan), but its use does not signify pashtun ancestry.
Tele, whats a pakistani doing in Paraguay?
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Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:21
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Teldeinduz you are adamant about Hindu pathans. Telling me with such authority.
All hindus belong to one of the 4 varnas, you can only be born a hindu.
Brahmins (Priest)
Kshatriya(Warrior) including Khatri and Rajput
Vaisyas (Traders)
Sudra (labourers)
So tell me what Varna do these Hindu Pathans belong to that you speak of
------------- Vedam |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:24
I'm not really in Paraguay..It was a random strike
 ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:24
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This is Ustad Amjad Ali Khan of the Bangash tribe of Pashtuns (My dad knows him personally) I dont get it...I can show you Indians as fair or fairer then him. BTW his sons, who are fairer then him in person, have the same skin tone as me so what is your point ?   -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:30
Let me get this straight, you're an Afghan...? What is your tribal affiliation from both your mothers and your fathers side? I have known about half-dozen afghans and let me tell you they'd beat you to pulp if you told them you're an afghan/pathan or whatever, they hate pathans and say that they're punjab mixbreeds!
He's from somewhere in Europe. -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:30
------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:37
You're not too bright, so until you turn the bulb on, there's no point responding to jibberish when you dont even know the origin and meaning of the word "Pathan".
PS Is this you?
 ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:41
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No people have converted in the past as Hindus but they were whole large groups who were put in the into a varna, so for example the Kusanas and Sythians may have become Rajputs and their Priests Brahmins, but this was when there was a state of Influx in society.
But now you cannot be Priest for example unless you are a Brahmin.
It is like the Jewisg religion which is also a people/various tribes
I do not dispute that Hindus in the NWF call themselves Pathans but they are Hindkho Pathans or called Punjabi Pathans because they speak HAVE ABSORBED THE CULTURE, BUT THEY ARE NOT TRUE PATHANS. They do not trace themselves to the certain various ancstors that Pathans will have.
Hope this clears it up. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 09:59
Ringo Starr sound familiar?
A Brahmin is a priest isnt it?
Jewish thing, I agree strictly they dont allow converts but not Hinduism
Hindko is simply a language. Some members of the Mardan tribes used to speak Hindko up till recently in large numbers, but they were still Pathan. Some Hindko Pathans can also speak Pashto. I've given my source anyway, it's up to you if you want to believe it. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:07
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Let me get this straight, you're an Afghan...? What is your tribal affiliation from both your mothers and your fathers side? I have known about half-dozen afghans and let me tell you they'd beat you to pulp if you told them you're an afghan/pathan or whatever, they hate pathans and say that they're punjab mixbreeds!
I cannot talk about Telde, but i am pashtun through and through, both sides, great grandfather came from outside Jalalabad. And if those Afghanis don't like it, they can stick it......... you know where.
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Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:09
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OK fair enough, let us drop the subject, enough said
You have your source, i have my Kapoor relatives from Sialkot, who probably know a little bit about their family name
PS Ringo Starr is a Hari Krishna follower, but i'm not gonna get into that now, lifes too short. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:14
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Durrani tribe to be precise, though I don't remember why they moved to jalabad or here.
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:15
When I say Afghan, I mean ethnicity only (for those that dont know, the term for ethnicity of Pathans is used interchangeably with the term Pashtun ethnicity or Afghan ethnicity). ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:26
Having the name Kapoor doesnt mean anything if you think about it. It's much like the name Khan doesnt mean Pathan (though a lot have some Pashtun ancestry in this case). ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:39
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No my friend you are wrong in this case, with hindus it is different.
Family surnames show which community a person belongs to.
How many punjabi Patels do you know.
And as i told you before Kapoors, are the highest of the Khatris along with Khannna and malhotra. And up until a few years ago only these 3 married only among themselves.
Raj kapoors mother was a malhotra.
But let the topic be closed now. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:41
hahahaha you arent even a Pashtun !!! you're a hazara i bet and this guy Balram Rajput is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garasia - Gharasia ; By definition these are those Rajputs who intermarried with the indegenous tribes of the areas such as the Bhils. Now I can show you a much better and accurate picture of a Gharasia, and just because the guy uses 'Rajput' as a surname doesnt make him one he maybe moonlighting
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“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 10:50
If you do a search for Patel and Muslim, you'll come across a load of Muslim Patels. I've actually met a couple. I'm sure some exist in Punjab, but if they dont so what?
------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 11:14
lol Patels are from Gujrat area and yes there are many muslim patels BUT THERE ARE NO PATELS IN THE PUNJAB!!!
Getting back to my question you better state your 'pathan' tribe name on both your paternal and maternal side otherwise we're gona start thinking you're just another faki nationalist spreading faki propoganda!
The Bangash tribe is one of the most authentic tribes of Pashtuns and you cant deny that either nor can you deny Amjad Ali Khan Bangashs' skin tone. -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 12:26
"The Rajpoot slays buffaloes, hunts and eats the boar and deer, and shoots ducks and wild fowl (cookra); he worships his horse, his sword, the sun and attends more to the martial song of the bard than to the lit of any Brahmin." - C.T. Metcalfe's "The Rajput Tribes"
Rajputs and Brahmins have always been at odds end with eachother and most Rajputs don't consider Brahmins important for priestly duties either, especially since they perceive that they have a special link with their gods.
Telde, so what now Sanjay Kapur, husband of Karishma Kapoor is also a Pathan?? The fact that they married into their caste/clan shouldnt matter for this argument.
 -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 18:40
Uttaranchal is a mountainous area that used to be a part of UP, and Himachal Pradesh (another mountainous state) used to be a part of Punjab.
I think those states mostly comprise of Brahmins and Rajputs. Correct me, if I'm wrong.
Anways, this is getting ridiculous. Leave it to a Paki to provoke a pointless argument on having fair skin and light eyes.
For the last time, having light eyes doesn't make you look Nordic. If you can't easily tell that a green-eyed Aishwarya Rai is Indian (just look at her facial structure), you're retarded.
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Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 18:56
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Telde you need to go watch 'Syriana' and find out what facial features are perceived by other people when the word 'Pakistani' comes to mind. By the way Telde your people are treated worst than animals in those Arabian countries, wonder why they take so much pride in claiming descent from their former masters (Arabs + Mughals).
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“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 04:53
People can claim ancestry from where they like, I dont claim ancestry from Arabian countries or Persia and definitely not India, though some Pakistanis are from there..Some Indians also claim ancestry from the outside so you're just blabbering round in circles again.
The Balochis might genuinely have Syrian ancestry though, and some Pakistanis do have Arab and Persian origins. Princess Sarvath of Jordan is one such example of Pakistani with Arab ancestry. She's a Hashamite which I believe the Jordanians also consider as Arab.
------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 06:09
Vedam was claiming the reason you dont see the mythical fairskinned and eyed Rajputs is that they're in the mountains. If he's referring to Himachal Pradesh as one big mountain, then he's wrong as most of the people are clearly dark (at least I would class them as such). These are Rajputs from Himaranchal Pradesh, Uttaranchal, Rajasthan.
 Harish Rawat, Rajput, Uttaranchal, politician
 Virbhendra Singh, Rajput, chief minister, Himranchal Pradesh
 Devi Bhati, Rajput, Bikaner Rajasthan, politician
 Rajendra Rathori, Rajput, Churu, Rajasthan, politician
Tribal Rajuts
http://www.rajasthantravel.org/rajasthan_introduction/rajasthan_tribals.html - http://www.rajasthantravel.org/rajasthan_introduction/rajasthan_tribals.html
All these Rajputs are North Indian and from either Uttaranchal, Himachal Pradesh or Rajesthan. None of them I'd class as Aryan, though they are definitely lighter skinned than other Indians.
I do not get why this is so hard for you to accept. India is one of the warmest countries in the world, as hot as tropical Africa, so the people are all going to be very dark. Even the Northern states get tropical weather.
Who's forcing you to respond? All I said was India is not 72% Aryan, and then you all went into denial mode. I know Pakistan isnt 72% Aryan, and if there was an Aryan invasion, the only way into India is through Pakistan, so you would get a greater concentration there, but I only hear this Aryan stuff coming out of India.
How is Aishwarya Rai in the remotest bit typical of Indian looks? She's had nose jobs and probably runs the skin lightening industry in India. Also she wears coloured contact lenses and though she grew up in South India, she is definitely not representative of South Indian looks. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 08:56
SOME INDIANS???? hahahahaha much fewer in % than the Pakistanis I bet and just watch the movie buddy stop trying to turn tables I caught on to it already.
Yea and you're the direct descendant of Kublai Khan   Yemeni Veddoid Sri Lankan Veddoid
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“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 16:33
LOL! Don't you know that Indian girls are known throughout the world for their big eyes, round faces, thin noses and full lips? Go ask any non-Indian. Compare the most beautiful white woman with Aishwarya. There's still a difference in facial structure. Most white women don't simultaneously have large eyes, round faces, etc.
Even in India, South Indian girls in particular are famed for having large eyes.
Take away Aishwarya's hair dye, colored contacts and fair skin. She will look very Indian. As a matter of fact, she just looks like a much lighter version of Rekha, who's also South Indian.
What does the nose job have anything to do with not being Indian? Indians can have any type of nose.
I guess these girls don't look Indian then, because of their noses.
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Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 16:44
LOL, did I ever say that the majority of Indians have light hair and light eyes?
I'm just saying those features aren't unheard of. While I'm at it, there are even Indians who look East Asian/SE Asian (like my ex boyfriend), East African, mulatto, etc.
If I wanted to Indians to look European, I wouldn't admit that some of them look SE Asian. Hell, even some of the Bengali actresses have a slight Asiatic look.
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 21:08
Well, I'm non Indian, and I have never heard of it. If you're saying that Indian girls generally have thin noses and full lips, I'd probably disagree. Some have thin noses and narrow lips, some big noses and narrow or big lips. The eyes are of same size to other peoples around the world I guess.
?
Large eyes, round faces? What are you on about???? How are the eyes of Indian women different to the eyes of non oriental women in size?
If you say so..South Indians tend to be better dancers than North Indians though.
I agree, Indian noses are different. But her nose is not the typical South Indian nose anyway, and it's not really typical of the North Indian one either.
South Indian noses where she's from will be either Wedide (as Rajput's picture shows) or Gracilo-Indide. Both of these have flat noses, though I'm pretty sure you get a lot of exceptions. But in general, she doesnt have a South Indian nose. The thinner Indian noses are found in Punjab and the NorthWest of India, generally among the higher castes and Sikhs.
What makes her look not like the majority of Indians, is because of the coloured contacts, the fair skin, (not the hair dye but take that too). Also, she's better kept than the majority of Indians who are too poor to afford that degree of make up.
Those are again actresses hand picked for their exceptional looks, that dont look Indian in my opinion. Does Michael Jackson look African American to you?
 ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 21:16
There's the odd few people that look white, East Asian etc in India, many of these somehow make it into Bollywood. That's why it's so bad for looking at physical features in the country, as Hollywood is for that matter.
Having one or two people in a cimmunity with light eyes or East Asian looks isnt really a good representation of the people of India. It's like having a Vietnamese play a Punjabi, it wouldnt really be that accurate of the majority of the people.
Though slight East Asian features are not uncommon in Assam and NorthEast India.
------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 23:13
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That last Tamil girl isn't an actress. I know her. She just had some professional pics done at a studio.
LOL, these women don't look Indian? I take it that you haven't been exposed to Rekha or Sheetal Mallar. Let me enlighten you.
  They have dark hair, dark skin and dark eyes. What more do you want?
First you say that noses amongst Indians vary, and now you're talking about "typical North Indian" and "typical South Indian" noses.
LOL, a Punjabi guy told me that Rajput women are more delicately-featured than Sikh Jatt females and Hindu Punjabi Khatris/Aroras.
By that logic, you would think that my mom's family (the non-Punjabi ones) are Punjabi, when the wider noses are actually found in my Punjabi step-father's family. And guess what? His roots go back to Pakistan before the partition. So technically, my step-father's short and blunt-featured family aren't really "Indian."
.
If you don't think those women I posted look Indian, then you probably won't think I look Indian either. But isn't it ironic how every white, black, East/SE Asian, Hispanic and Arab can easily tell that I'm Indian?
I bet you if I told you that my step-father was my biological father, you would probably assume that I got my nose from his side. You would be owned without even knowing it.
The moral of the story is is that some Pakistanis have a ridiculous view on how Indians are "supposed" to look.
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Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 05:31
| Rajputgirl, is it possible to not use the word retarded as an adjective? |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 11:31
| Okay, I changed it. Happy? :) |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 12:35
| very :) |
Posted By: AlokaParyetra
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 12:43
Ok, i think herein lies the problem. You believe that exceptional looks are not Indian. So no matter how many pictures are shown, you will not accept them as Indian.
If i were to show you a picture of a poor ugly girl from India, you would say "yes, she's Indian." If I were to show you a picture of a rich beautiful girl, as RajputGirl has done several times, you would say, "she's not Indian."
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Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 13:01
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Indian actress Urmila Matondkar (L) and Pakistani actress Resham (R) on the formers visit to Pakistan. Now Urmila is of Marathi origin from the south western state of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharashtra - Maharashtra , so you tell me people, how different are their features? Oh yea and for the record those guys in the backdrop are Pakistani.
PS. NO nose jobs, NO bleaching of skin, just your avg. desi brown women who like to color their hair and wear shehnaz hussein herbal beauty products
 . -------------
“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 19:02
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Regarding the comment about thinner noses being generally found amongst the NorthWest, I forgot to say that you do realize that Rajasthan is technically considered a NorthWestern state? HP also used to be a part of the NothWestern state of Punjab. So, aren't you contradicting yourself by making your comments about how Rajputs look?
 I hope you're not one of those people who falsely think it's Western India. If you don't even know the simple geography of India, I don't know how you can be in a position to generalize how Indians look.
I forgot to also point out that this woman is also no actress or model. She is Gayatri Devi, the third Maharani of Jaipur, and also got involved in politics in her later life. She just became well-known for her beauty. She's old now though.
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:02
Even if she is Tamil, she is not what your average Tamil looks like without hair colouring or lighting. If you want to see Tamils, look at the Sri Lankan cricket team.
  
I never said they arent Indian, but those features would perhaps be found mainly in the Brahmin caste or Sikhs, which form about 6% of the Indian population. The other 94% dont look anything like it.
Majority of noses I was talking about, but the noses amongst the higher castes are perhaps different to those in the other castes.
Rajputs, Sikhs, doesnt look like much difference to me.
You will find that not everyone fits that look. Not all Pathans for example have big pointy noses, or not all Indians will have flat noses. According to this map, the majority of India is Wedide (Racial type D) and GraziloIndide (Racial type A). (definitions - see after map)
http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.dodonaforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1795">
 < =text/>setImgWidth(); Racial Type A.In the racial composition of the peoples of India we can discern; (A), a short statured long headed element with high cranial vault but faintly marked supra-orbital ridges and broad, short but ortho-gnathous face, with medium lips. The nose is prominent and long but the alae moderately spread out, giving a mesorrhine index. The colour of the skin varies from light brown in the Telugu Brahmin to a dark tawny brown among the Kalla, but the eye colour is dark brown and colour of the hair is usually black. The latter is in general straight but is inclined to waviness and the amount is moderate both on the face and body. It is found in its purest form among the Telugu Brahmins, but the Kallas of Southern Tamil country and the Illuvas of Cochin also furnish good examples. This type forms the predominant element in the greater part of the lower stratum of the population of Northern India, including to some extent the Punjab, where among the Chubra and Chamar is a small-headed, broad-nosed element which appears to be closely related to the Mediterranean stock of Europe.
Racial Type D : In addition to these three types, the aboriginal population of India discloses – (D) a short and moderately high-headed strain with very often strongly marked brow ridges, broad short face, the mouth slightly inclined forwards and small flat nose with the alae extended. The hair varies from wavy to curliness and the skin is of a shade of dark chocolate brown approaching black. This type is predominant among the aboriginal tribes of Central and Southern India, but seems also to have entered in a considerable degree in the lower stratum of the Indian population.
Racial Type A would fit for Rajputs etc, some Sikhs would be racial C as well. Racial type A might fit the face structure of the actresses you put up, though I'm not sure the nose matches up so they're probably more C, but even then these I think are in the upper castes of the North West of the country.
The Indide people (Sikhs of the above map) have have a larger and longer face than the Wedide people who form the majority of India (at least the majority of the Southern and central parts).
http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.dodonaforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1795">
 < =text/>setImgWidth(); http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.dodonaforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1795 - < =text/>setImgWidth();
Indians have a distinctive look, though a lot of the pictures you put up, could have been from other countries also.
As an example, take away the guy, block her saree out, and this woman could be from many different countries besides India. I dont think this is an "Indian look"
Dont follow this, I guess it's funny though.
Indians in general dont look like they do in Bollywood is the point I've been trying to make. I dont think the colours really represent most of what Indians look like, and I think it shows facial features more of the upper castes in the North West of the country, not the majority of North Indians.
Rajputs look like the pictures I posted. I dont think I said Rajputs do not have thin noses. Here's some more pictures of Rajputs..
    Himarchal Pradesh probably has more Oriental ancestry than anything Aryan. Their genetics is majority oriental on average.
 ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:32
| Well when was the last time you heard of a poor girl joining Bollywood? Obviously the actors are going to come from upper class/upper middle class ie the ones who don't spend every day outside and therefore dont get tanned as much. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:35
Stop putting words in my mouth or assuming I mean this or that. I said exceptional looks do not represent the majority of India, but you should know that this applies to any country in the world. That is why they are exceptional!
Those are Indians, just not typical of what the majority of India looks like. If it was typical, half of India would have fair skin and fair eyes and it does not. You could perhaps say the same of any movie industry, but we happen to be talking about Bollywood. If you want to see what Indian look like the cricket team is a better example to pick than Bollywood..
    ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 08:42
There have actually been stories of poor people getting their break in Bollywood, and I dont think that the upper castes have shielded themselves from the weather and so arent so dark..not in the slightest, their genetics are different to the lower castes. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 14:28
|
The genetics would be different if each marry into their own caste. But, does that also mean that caste groupings are concentrated regionally. i dont think so. So a proportional amount of geneticaly distinct castes spread all over india seems far fetched, or isnt it.
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Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 15:05
I have similar features to that woman, and I don't wear Indian clothes or have an Indian accent. People can still tell that I'm Indian, whether they're white, black, East Asian, South-East Asian, Hispanic or Arab. I have even been mistaken for a South Indian and Central Indian before, and I'm North Indian. Indians don't necessarily use nasal shape to guess what ethnicity you belong to. There are other factors in your appearance, and an Indian's perception of how each Indian ethnicity can look can vary.
Growing up in India and being exposed to the different ethnicities over there isn't the same thing as randomly looking at pictures of people on the internet and reading racial articles created by white people.
I showed my Malyalee friend your post, and he couldn't stop laughing. How could you not tell that this Tamil Catholic girl is South Indian? Do you seriously think she looks like a Sikh Punjabi?
Whose opinion is more valid? A South Indian who spent his entire life in South India, or some Pathan guy fron the UK looking at pictures on the internet?  Just as there are different types of looks amongst North Indians, there are different variations amongst South Indians. Looking South Indian doesn't mean that you have to look aboriginal.
I could google up pictures of overweight white people, and assume that looking "white" means that you have to be over 200 pounds. But anybody who grew up in Sweden would tell me that I'm wrong.
Well, that's what happens when you sit behind your computer and read all this BS about racial types and what not. You will end up making faulty conclusions. You need to realize that these things don't accurately dictate how diverse Indians can look.
What happens if you meet a Punjabi/South Indian mix, where the person's South Indian parent is the one with light skin and the fine nose?
How come Indians don't rely on these racial theories? They have their own eyes to see what their people look like.
I live around mostly Punjabis (Hindu, Muslim and Sikh), and I don't need some map to tell me how they look. For the record, most of them don't look like what you described.
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 22:02
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 05-Jul-2006 at 23:54
This is actually an interesting question that someone has finally asked on this thread. It's been found that the upper castes of North Western India share some similarity with the genetics of central Asian groups (the Aryan connection I guess). Upper castes are about 15% of the Indian population, with perhaps half of them being in the NorthWest of India (a lot of these with a degree of mixing by the look of it). This would make India perhaps 7% Aryan at most but there are big differences between these and the central asian groups still.
However if you look at South Indian upper castes or North Eastern India, there's very little similarity with central asian groups. So the genetics of upper castes in India shows a variation by region. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 01:10
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Let me ask you this. Do you think these women look Punjabi? Both girls have South Indian mothers and Punjabi fathers. Their features aren't too different from the actress posted earlier. Malaika Arora
 Priyanka Chopra
 If you think they look Punjabi, guess what? These three Indian Punjabi boys don't agree with you. Links have also been provided.
 http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8875&st=1060&p=1836155&#entry1836155 - http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8875&st=1060&p=1836155&#entry1836155
I think Malaika looks more malu than punjabi. I always thought of her as not very punjabi looking.
http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=82e943c464b20aa527512baaaeeb5cb0&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=priyanka - http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=82e943c464b20aa527512baaaeeb5cb0&search_in=posts&result_type=posts&highlite=priyanka
yea priyanka chopra look exactly like a south indian gurl.....
http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=167517&highlight=Malu - http://forums.ratedesi.com/showthread.php?t=167517&highlight=Malu
She is half mallu and in fact looks mallu.
All of these boys grew up in Punjab. Don't you think they would have more knowledge of how the "stereotypical" Punjabi looks like?
Rekha is notoriously known for being a dark-skinned actress. Punjabis are stereotyped as being fair. Why would someone associate a dark-skinned woman with being Punjabi?
When it comes to Indians, inter-caste offspring can fully favor one of their pure parent's ethnicity. For instance, a half-Gujarati/half-Bengali boy can look like exactly like a prototypical Bengali. Inter-caste mixes among Indians aren't as obvious as half-black/half-white mixes or half-Chinese/half-white mixes. You can't easily pinpoint who got their features from where.
I never said that half of the Indians have light eyes or look "Aryan."It's just easier to get pictures of Bollywood celebrities. I'm just showing you that either non-Punjabi or dark-skinned Indians can have variation, when it comes to their facial features. Having finer features or being light-skinned doesn't magically make you "look Punjabi."
As a word of advice, leave it to the Indians to decide who looks like what.
In case you haven't been exposed to Punjabis and you're just basing your comments on reading articles, here are some Punjabis for you.
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Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 10:21
I'm going to leave it here, because you dont seem to read what I'm writing.
------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 10:40
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Tell you what Teldeinduz lets say India is 0.001 percent Aryan, and that 0.001 is all in Bollywood.
I think that would make you happy. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 19:47
I wasn't the one who said that India was 72% Aryan, and I honestly don't care. You probably didn't get my point either.
The same thing could be said about you.
Like I said, leave it to the Indians to decide who looks like what. Would you like it if Telegus dicated what Pathans looked like, and criticized the Pathan models in Pakistan for looking too "European" and non-representative of people in NWFP.  The point is is try not to expect all Indians to look a certain way. You're going to find numerous "exceptions" (if that's how you want put it), due to mixing and integration. You can't say that being Punjabi or being Kashmiri is some kind of race, if you have people popping out looking like Manmohan Singh. Just leave it as being a regional and lingustic ethnicity.
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Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 20:13
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By the way, I hope you know what North India consists of when you talk about the "majority of North Indians."
If you think Gujarat, Bengal, MP and Bihar are generally classified as North Indian states, think again.
The pictures from RateDesi are random Sikh Punjabis, and not South Indians. I don't know if you live around a lot of Punjabis, but I'm just giving you visual examples instead of you having to read articles on what they're supposed to look like.
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Posted By: Rajput
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 22:20
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I gave that figure and it was 72% Indo-Aryan. I think our friend here jumped the gun when he mistakingly confused the Nazi definition of an aryan with the original Indo-Aryans who, for the record, follow the aryan vedic religion.
PS. Its http://www.rudraksha-ratna.com/images/gods/swastik.gif - 'Swastik' not swastika you confused wannabes! Stop hijacking our religious symbols and don't be so ignorant! You wana call yourself Aryan then start practicing the religion of the ARYANS (HINDUISM) which has been using this symbol for thousands of years!
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“If God did not create the horse, he would not have created the Rajput.” |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2006 at 22:59
The Aryans came from a central Asian region or perhaps some other Northern location. At the very least they had light features, and the suggestion that India is 72% light featured with Aryan looks is just way off (perhaps there was mixing of upper caste men and lower caste women, but this would make the Aryan composition of the person a minority characteristic eventually - judging by the physical features of the people there 0.001% is probably accurate, though the number of Aryans with light features is much less with true Aryans like the original central Asian people being virtually non existent). Actually, the Indian M haplo seems to be present more in the higher castes so the "lighter" higher castes undoubtedly have a lot of mixing with Dravidian women. A lot of the upper castes dont look particularly Aryan in the slightest.
The Aryan haplo marker might be R1a1, which does occur in India (though definitely not to 72%). Perhaps around 10% to 20%, but some recent studies have shown Indian R1a1 to not cluster with central asian R1a1 so it's probably not of Aryan origin. However, R1a1 of the Chamar does seem to be close to central Asian R1a1, but he looks nothing like an Aryan and belongs to the lower caste. R1a1 is found quite a lot in lower castes also. So R1a1 probably is not a good Aryan marker in India. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 06:04
| Telde, can i ask what is the difference between your figure and the one in the CIA world fact book? |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 12:56
CIA world factbook gives the percent of Indo European speakers in India which is about 72%.
Just looking over some stuff it appears that some West Asian DNA might be important for the upper castes. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Anujkhamar
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 13:01
| thanks for clarifying that for me |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 15:43
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This topic should be done with, but I had to post this pic. :)
The girl is from Kerala. It's obviousthat she looks too poor to afford contacts.
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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2006 at 18:53
Obviously by reading this post you can see:
1. Indians brag about Aryan (Indo-European) heritage more than anybody else.
2. Most Indians do not have light features or light skin or light eyes, and thats perfectly alright.
3. It is completely pointless to prove Aryans were blonde and blue eyed because they were not.
In my opinion, Indians are beautiful people and this caste system must be erased.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:16
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^I hope you know that the caste system doesn't necessarily correlate with how you look. There are tons of dark-featured high-caste people.
For the last time, nobody is trying to say that the majority of Indians have light skin or light eyes. TeldeInduz wanted to see pics of light-eyed Indians, and we gave it to him (or her?). If TeldeInduz didn't ask, then nobody would have bothered to talk about Indians with light-colored eyes.
People are just saying that light eyes or light skin among South Asians isn't unheard of. Even people of African-American descent can have light eyes or a lighter brown complexion, without having any immediate white blood. No group is necessarily homogenous.
If someone said that Afghans couldn't have light eyes, wouldn't you correct them? Does that mean that you're ashamed of dark eyes, because you're simply pointing out that some Afghans CAN have light eyes?
NO.
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Posted By: Digvijay
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:22
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Afghanan, You are wrong. Indians do not brag about Aryan invasion. Read this: http:// http://www.iskcon.com/icj/6_1/6_1klostermaier.html - www.iskcon.com/icj/6_1/6_1klostermaier.html Dr Klostermaier is a professor at a Canadian University. Aryan Invasion theory is complete farce. -Digs |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 15:27
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At TeldeInduz's request-here are some more poor people with light eyes.
Again, these pictures do NOT serve the purpose of trying to claim that the majority of Indians have light eyes. They're just showing what they're supposed to show: An Indian, who ironically happens to have naturally light eyes. If you read the initial thread, that's what TeldeInduz wanted to see.
   
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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:10
I didnt say anything about an Aryan invasion, I said an "Aryan heritage" or having "Aryan" blood. And I wasnt talking about all Indians, I was talking about this post/topic specifically.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:19
I'm not TeldeInduz, so I dont know why you are trying to prove this to me. Second of all, who said all Aryans for some reason have to have light eyes? If Aryans are cousins to the Iranians, they should look more similar to them. Forget hair color and eyes. India was occupied by the British for over 150 years, we can easily say the same that the British intermingled with the native Indian populations as well.
Its a pointless discussion really. Indians are Indians and that is all they will be. Anyone who is obsessed with skin color and the color of someones iris in their eyeballs is completely disattatched from reality and they are fooling themselves. You understand what I'm trying to say? ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:26
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I never said anything about Aryans. The Hindu scriptures say that an Aryan is someone who is noble. I really could care less about that Aryan Invasion garbage, or what those mythological Aryans are supposed to look.
Like I said, TeldeInduz wanted to see a picture of an Indian with light eyes. End of story. I don't even think anybody in this thread was talking about the AIT.
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Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:27
Its no point arguing with you, since again I"M NOT TELDEINDUZ. I dont know why you keep talking to him through me.  ------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: RajputGirl
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 19:39
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lol, I never said you were TeldeInduz.
I was just using his question to explain to you why people are talking about light skin or light eyes in this thread.
This topic has nothing to do with secretly wanting to look white, or being ashamed of having dark features. I don't know why you said that Indians love to brag about being "Aryan" more than anything else.
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Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 20:55
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Why is it so important to be "white"? what's the obsession with being Blone with blue eyes, I don't know why some are taking it so seriously, don#t you ever think, "who cares"?
Brown is beautiful guys, its the new fashion 
What's wrong with being dark, really dark skinned with beautiful dark eyes and jet black hair? cannot this be considered beautiful? Really the Aryan argument is pointless and segregatory, its like you don't approve of 95% of Indians, how do the dark Indians feel? In London theres a huge Sout Asian community, to be honest I've never a white looking Indian or one with Brown or blonde hair, I'm just being honest. But my friend is a Bengal and his paps has a Red beard but I think its dyed hehe. The lightest Indian I've ever seen could pass for an Arab, Persian or Turk but not really for a white European. Be proud of what you are and the colour of your skin, lives to short to have such complexes. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 21:25
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I didnt request anything. I know what virtually all of the eye colour of Indians is. If you type in South Indian in google, you'll get an idea. You have to search pretty hard to find people with fair eyes simply because it's not from around that region, just like frizzy hair isnt. First 6 or 7 results from google show more or less what's common and what isnt.         http://members.rediff.com/kalanjyam/mattuvandi.jpg">
Actually, if you read what I said in the beginning, I said you will always get some mixing into every population, but it is about in the same amounts as Africans with fair eyes. In other words, it's just some mixing over the centuries (I used the term "randy British troops", though one or two migrations will also have counted (for example Chitpovans, which are a very small group of people in India - you might know the figures?). The quote I used was "There might be some with dark to mid brown hair, but there's no blondes in North India. The eye colour is definitely bullsh*t. I've never met an Indian with genuine blue or green eyes (the odd one might exist but this might have been from some randy British troops). The only people from the subcontinent I've met in real life with blue or green eyes on a fairly large scale (10-20%) from the subcontinent have been Pathans. (EDIT : Northern Punjabis apparently have similar features I've been told also (Attock region). The 72% Aryan make up of India is just nonsense. I've seen that number on some website but they might be talking about language rather than ethnicity." You do get the odd African with green or blue eyes as well, but they are all peculiarities within the community.    ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 21:42
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Bulldog, i agree with your observations, which r pretty fair and honest. ------------- |
Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 21:44
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The features of the original Aryan such as eye colour isnt known, but I'd probably say they had a mixture of colours. ------------- Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre................. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 03:23
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How about caucasoid features? Which means that great variety in skin, hair and eye color. (For the Aryans).
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