Western museums- should antiquites be returned?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13014
Printed Date: 24-Apr-2024 at 02:08
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Western museums- should antiquites be returned?
Posted By: Vedam
Subject: Western museums- should antiquites be returned?
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 07:56
|
Hi
I was just thinking what do you all feel about the Museums in the west that have so many artifacts from the ancient world.
Their arguement is that they will take better care then the other "developing" countries, and that history belongs to everyone.
I have been to the "British Museum" many times, and there is hardly anything British in it.
What do you all think.
|
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 08:26
| Spoils of war buddy, ours now. |
Posted By: kingofmazanderan
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 01:15
| I agree that the priceless relics are much safer inside the museums that they are currantly in. As a proud iranian though i do know where your coming from. |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 07:21
|
This is certainly true for some countries, but I doubt if by now, the Greeks have not proven they can actually take care of their own artefacts, or the Egyptians... I dont believe everything should be shipped back at once, but some debate and cooperation between countries and museums on this point is a necessety. ------------- 
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 08:10
|
No way should they be shipped back, in the Brittish musuem their kept totally safe and free to the public, their really in the best hands.
If they were shipped back how do we know their gonna stay in good condition and safe, its just far to risky.
In addition, alot of the artifacts were sold to the musuems. Also they are mainly from ancient civillisations, nobody can claim direct descendancy and therefore rights over these treasures
 There are Egyption Needles in so many countries, these were given as gifts and seen as though there are no ancient Egyptions today nobody has a claim over the them, same with ancient near-east and mediterranean, finders keepers  ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 08:53
|
actually, most obelisks where stolen by invaders, like the Romans and Napoleon. Nobody cared to ask. And goods that were bought from graverobbers and such are not legitmately owned. Nor are works of art which were carted out by foreign opressors. The Germans had to give it all back after the war, why shouldnt the British give back what they stole as foreign opressors? At least think about it. Its also a bit arrogant to think the British are the only ones who can take care of them.
Besides, not all is on display, there is a massive amount stored in depots. They might as well give that back, as they are not using it anyway... -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 09:42
|
I agree that the one's were not using should be given back to where they were found but alot of the treasures would have simply been looted, destroyed, melted down or used as stones in the village house if they were simply left.
------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 10:27
|
Maybe they would, maybe not. Its not really an excuse is it. We're talking about now. -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Greek Tragedy
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 10:38
|
i think they should stay in the museums, it helps these cultures stay popular in the first place when others want their stuff. and in other countries other people can explore them and learn if they cant travel to Hellas or Egypt and so on
but i agree if there is alot not being used or going to be used they should give those back, its not like storing junk in a garage, these are priceless objects
|
Posted By: Gargoyle
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 10:48
|
I think everything should stay where it is now. Most of the countries where these artefacts would go to if they were returned are simply to volatile and unpredictable. And I really don't like how some Museums have some of their best Treasures in storage, everything in my opinion should be on display! 
------------- |
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 11:12
|
Of course I'm not suggesting shipping ancient artefacts to Irak or something, but countries like Greece, Egypt and Turkey are hardly "volatile and unpredictable". -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 18:53
|
It's better to keep them all in a few places, like the British Museum and the Louvre, rather than have them spread all over the world. The way it is now we can go to those aforementioned museums as well as others and see collections from all over the world, instead of spending a fortune on travelling around to different places just to see isolated parts of it. I also doubt how many countries can compete with England and France when it comes to historical preservation, I feel some of these countries that demand "their" artefacts back have little understanding of the value of history and do so mostly out of national pride. More importantly, the British Museum and the Louvre are within a reasonable distance from where I'm sitting.  ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 00:08
I already said SPOILS OF WAR. You cant expect the English give it all back
 Why should they??? They shouldnt. |
Posted By: Gloval
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 01:01
|
Well if european cultures were looted by an invader from half way around the world (for sake of argument let's say china}, wouldn't europeans want their cultural artifacts back? The chinese had no influence culturally on the pieces they took, they just like them and their value. Don't you think that china should give back these relics simply because it's someone else's heritage even if they did take it as loot? ------------- You don't spread democracy through the barrel of a gun. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 02:33
|
They might give some back, but they would want to keep some. Im sure if there was a museum in Beijing full of European relics, we wouldnt see much of it come back.
|
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 13:31
|
When it comes to Hellas,and Ancient Hellenic relics,things are rather complicated.You see ,every part of an Ancient Hellenic temple ,which ,for example, is in some foreign museum,was designed and built by the Ancients specifically in accordance with the surrounding environment of it's location.For example Parthenon,Oracle of Delhoi and hundrends of others.If you put them in another location or,even worse,inside another building then they loose their real ethical and esthetic value,they become toys of commercialized tourism.Of course a foreigner cannot easily understand that. They should definently return to the location they were designed to exist. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Ave1
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 13:34
|
Although relics are of vital importance to the country where the relics initially located, relics relocated in western museums can further promote and educate individuals residing in those nations of the rich cultures.
------------- "Not one American Christian in a hundred realizes that if he lived in Israel, he would be the victim of official discrimination forced...to carry an identification card" - Joseph Sobran |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 13:42
|
Promote education to Western individuals,while depriving it from the original nation.Why should i go to the UK to see the marbles of Parthenon,the relics of my country and civilization and not the other way around?Why shouldn't the British and Western Europeans come to Hellas to see it?What,they are better than i am?Bollocks! ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 13:53
|
Yes Spartakus, i definitely know where your coming from.
And the context in which these artifacts in the ancient world were taken, there certainly was a period of free for all looting, it seems, when people did this "tour of europe". ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 14:04
|
Yeah,who forgets the "philantropy" of Lord Elgin?Not to mention what happened in Egypt.How many ancient tombs were desecreted because some believed that they would find some kind of gold.Even the Pyramids of Giza.And on and on.The bad thing is ,that even today there are many "elgins" who steal ancient relics from various cultures in order to "flourish" private collections of rich people,or the collections of Western Museums and Galleris. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Vedam
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2006 at 14:19
Also the irony is with the Parthenon panel, they were actually scrubbed down to clean them up, i'm talking wire wool type. So much for taking better care
With regards to flourish private collections, in placed like India and Egypt, the ones who loot, make a fraction, and its often out of real economic neccesity, its the middle men who make a killing. ------------- Vedam |
Posted By: kingofmazanderan
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 15:32
Well to tell you guys the truth. The reason why the Europeans havent returned the items is because they are on top. Honestly they control most of the worlds valuables ex gold, diamonds and artifacts as well. I guess the only way these things would be returned to thier rightful countries is if Europe was conqured by another country and was forced to give the stuff back, like the Germans had too. Altough if they were conqured the conqurer might do the same as them and keep the stuff for themselves lol
|
Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2006 at 15:39
|
Europe is a region, not a country, and Greece is part of it...
What do you mean conquer it? -------------
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 10:29
|
I agree with you a little, King of Mazderan, but one of the reasons why the Europeans got the artifacts in the first case is because when these countries had them, they did not truthfully care that much- they were either conquered by other nations who were misusing them (Like what the Ottomans did to the Parthenon). These treasures were not pulled from the arms of people who wanted them- the countries from which they were taken either were not interested or could not keep them in good condition. I'm not attempting to justify what the Western europeans have done, but there's a little more justification for it that everyone seems to think ------------- |