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Southern Baltic, Slavic names

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Medieval Europe
Forum Discription: The Middle Ages: AD 500-1500
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12038
Printed Date: 28-Mar-2024 at 06:04
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Topic: Southern Baltic, Slavic names
Posted By: Svantoretro
Subject: Southern Baltic, Slavic names
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 19:04
Might anyone tell me what some common male/female Slavic names might have been in 1000 A.D., particularly among the Rugerii in the Isle of Rugen?



Replies:
Posted By: polak966
Date Posted: 31-May-2006 at 00:40
you mean the ranians (rugians might get confusing with an earlier germanic tribe inhabiting the same area).
i found a short list of ranian kings (from Polish wikipedia):
  • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1168 - 1168 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1325 - 1325 księstwo http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasal - wasalne królów http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dania - Danii :
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1162 - 1162 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1170 - 1170 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tes%C5%82aw&action=edit - Tesław
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1170 - 1170 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1218 - 1218 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jaromar_I&action=edit - Jaromar I
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1218 - 1218 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1236 - 1236 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barnut&action=edit - Barnut razem z Wisławem I
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1218 - 1218 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1249 - 1249 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wis%C5%82aw_I&action=edit - Wisław I
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1249 - 1249 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1260 - 1260 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jaromar_II&action=edit - Jaromar II
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1260 - 1260 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1302 - 1302 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wis%C5%82aw_II&action=edit - Wisław II razem z Jaromarem III
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1264 - 1264 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1283 - 1283 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jaromar_III&action=edit - Jaromar III
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1302 - 1302 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1325 - 1325 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wis%C5%82aw_III&action=edit - Wisław III na http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugia - Rugii
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1302 - 1302 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1304 - 1304 http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambor - Sambor w http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stralsund - Stralsundzie
  • od http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1325 - 1325 do książąt (zachodnio)pomorskich jako księstwo http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolgast - wołogosko - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugia - rugijskie , albo http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugia - rugijsko - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barth - bardowskie :
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1325 - 1325 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1326 - 1326 http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcis%C5%82aw_IV - Warcisław IV
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1326 - 1326 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1368 - 1368 http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus%C5%82aw_V - Bogusław V , http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcis%C5%82aw_V - Warcisław V , http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnim_IV - Barnim IV
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1368 - 1368 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1372 - 1372 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Warcis%C5%82aw_VI&action=edit - Warcisław VI , http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bogus%C5%82aw_VI&action=edit - Bogusław VI
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1372 - 1372 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1394 - 1394 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Warcis%C5%82aw_VI&action=edit - Warcisław VI
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1394 - 1394 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1415 - 1415 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Warcis%C5%82aw_VIII&action=edit - Warcisław VIII
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1415 - 1415 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1432 - 1432 / http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1436 - 36 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%C5%9Awi%C4%99tobor_II&action=edit - Świętobor II
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1432 - 1432 / http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1436 - 36 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1451 - 1451 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Barnim_VIII&action=edit - Barnim VIII
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1451 - 1451 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1457 - 1457 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Warcis%C5%82aw_IX&action=edit - Warcisław IX
    • http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1457 - 1457 - http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1478 - 1478 http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Warcis%C5%82aw_X&action=edit - Warcisław X
im afraid that might be the best you can do when it comes to finding names. these regions were poorly documented and usually in foreign sources.


Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 31-May-2006 at 01:03
I wonder also, the Byzantine general Belisarius is thought to have perhaps been of Slavic stock. Some say his name translates from Slavic into "white prince". Are any such names found in the Slavic languages of this period?

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Posted By: polak966
Date Posted: 31-May-2006 at 13:36
beli could somehow be linked to to slavic word for white, but most slavs back then called their princes kniaz. dont see a connection there.


Posted By: Svantoretro
Date Posted: 31-May-2006 at 19:06
As to what exactly the inhabitants of Arkona/Rugen were called in 1000 A.D., I'm confused.
I've seen "Rugerii", "Rugians", etc.  I need to settle on one.
I am interested in determining the early collective name of this people, in 1000 A.D.
Dost thou still say, "Ranians"?


Posted By: polak966
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 00:26
well my only sources are polish, and they are called ranowie, also rujanie, but also rugianie from the german name for these tribes. the one english source ('the early slavs' by p.m. bradford) names them 'ranen'.


Posted By: Red_Lord
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 14:58
Originally posted by Svantoretro

Might anyone tell me what some common male/female Slavic names might have been in 1000 A.D., particularly among the Rugerii in the Isle of Rugen?
I can tell you a name but it is 1400 years old.
the name is DOBRITA(a "lord"[kniaz] of slavian tribe)
It's a common name male and female


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"The slave is fighting for freedom,free is fighting for perfectness"
Yane Sandanski


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 17:24

Not once - reading history, Sagas, Saxo, Adam etc. about this region have I come across other names but "Vends" for inhabitans on Rugen. I wonder if Rugen actually had a name at that time. I never read any reference about that (as I remember).

The reference has always been "Fęstningen Arkona i Venden" - "The Fortification Arkona in Venden"

Venden was the kingdom in the region at that time and there has been more kings of Venden... Ie. Burislaw was King of Venden.
 
When I say "Vends" in the first paragraph, it is the norse word for the people of Venden, "Venderne" translated into english.


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Posted By: Socrates
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 18:04
Originally posted by Northman

Not once - reading history, Sagas, Saxo, Adam etc. about this region have I come across other names but "Vends" for inhabitans on Rugen. I wonder if Rugen actually had a name at that time. I never read any reference about that (as I remember).

The reference has always been "Fęstningen Arkona i Venden" - "The Fortification Arkona in Venden"

Venden was the kingdom in the region at that time and there has been more kings of Venden... Ie. Burislaw was King of Venden.
 
When I say "Vends" in the first paragraph, it is the norse word for the people of Venden, "Venderne" translated into english.
 
Venden (Wends) was a germanic term for neighbouring slavs-it doesn't mean a specific tribe...like Walloon in Belgium or Wales in Britain...
 
Rujen sounds like rujno (red in serbian)...and there's a plant ruj or rujevina... 


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"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
               Bob Rock


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 18:33
Maybe we are off topic here, but surely the Danes saw the Wends as very specific.
In the Medieval Ages, they had a kingdom with the stronghold on Rugen - millitary and political centre.
 
Please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absalon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absalon
and
http://www.geocities.com/armdury/Wends.pdf - http://www.geocities.com/armdury/Wends.pdf

 


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Posted By: Svantoretro
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2006 at 19:13
Thanks, everyone, for the info!


Posted By: polak966
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 00:54
i always fi d the term wend very confusing. i mostly find it refering to all the polabian tribes. there were 3 main tribal confederations, obodrites, vieleti, and serbs (sorbs). among those confederations were multiple smaller tirbes.
but not one of them was called wend. its a general term imo for the polabian slavs. as far as i know no slavi tribe has ever called its self 'wend'. even in polish the word is borrowed from germanic.
from wikipedia:
Wends ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language - German : Wenden, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin - Latin : Venedi) is the English name for some http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_people - Slavic people from north-central http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe - Europe , particularly the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs - Sorbs living in modern-day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany - Germany . The name is derived from the German term http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venedes - Veneter , used for various non-Germanic tribes


Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2006 at 05:18
Yes, I am aware of that definition, but I dont think they (the danes, and those who wrote the history) made that distinction back then.
 
"Venden" was not in reference to a certain people, but to a certain area - or in reference to the kingdom of Venden. Largely I believe, the area between the rivers, Elben and Oder.
 


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Posted By: Sarmata
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 02:09
Acctually in reference to the idea of Belisarius meaning White prince, Beli, could most definately mean white as for sarius, it could come from "Sar" or "Car" which some Slavs used for "Emperor", that is whichever Slavic states had Emperors (Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria). I myself have never heard of that but its really interesting I think I might look into it some more.


Posted By: Chilbudios
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 03:45
Belisarius cannot be derived from "Beli tsar" as "tsar" is derived from "caesar" and this word's first occurence is several centuries later.
 
There are other problems also.
The organisation of the Slavic society shows some controversial aspects. The Byzantine and Latin sources present chieftains or kings (like Ardagastus mentioned by Theophylact Simocatta or Samo mentioned by Fredegarius) but also the lack of them (Procopius' demokratia or the anarcha from Strategikon). What then was a "prince"/"tsar" for Slavs in 6th century? What is the archetype, where is the archaeological or written evidence for such an individual?
 
Also, the first loot raids (not migrations and settlement!) of Slavs south of Danube happened in the first half of 6th century (Antes in 518). How can be linked the alleged Slavic ancestry with the life of Belisarius, Roman soldier from his youth, bodyguard during Justin I, etc.?
 
Of course, one may say the ethnonyms used by sources are misleading and probably do not always refer what we want them to (for instance, groups separated by linguistic frontiers). But then the problems of the Slavic origin of Belisarius become simply undebateable for having even less premises for discussion.
 


Posted By: Sarmata
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 04:01
All you say is true. However given that the Slavs are a very little known people of europe and their ancestry shady I think its not so out of the quesiton for belisarius to have a Slavic ancestry, though it may just be and my biased opinion and just getting excited over such an idea.



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