Over centuries, we have seen that people are called by their name, whether he is in Asia, Europ, Africa or Americas the name still will be the same for example if an American is called "Jone", I am sure that he is also called "Jone" in any other language of the world, same goes with an Arab named "Ahmad", he would be called "Ahmad" all around the world.

My point here is to discuss the name of the one and only Allmighy "Allah".
Most of the times I have come to see the word "God" used for "Allah", My question from my fellow muslim brothers and sisters is whether it is right to use "God" instead of "Allah" or not?
(To me: It's a sin to use it.)

We (muslims) do believe that there is Only one Allah and no one but Allah and who don't has any gender, and is made of light (noor).

Below are the meanings for both of the words, now it's upto you all to decide whether to use it or not and whether it's a sin or not.

Allah:
The personal name of the one true creator in Islam. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. From the 112th sura of the Qur'an Sharief: "In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Mohammad) He is God the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone." http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Allah&gwp=11&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Allah - Reference:

God:

1. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity (as Goddess could be used for a femal type) thought to control some part of nature or reality.
2. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
3. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
4. A very handsome man.
5. A powerful ruler or despot.

http://www.answers.com/god?gwp=11&ver=1.0.6.171&method=3 - Reference:

Now my dear muslim brothers and sisters do consider on the bold and underlined words and phrases above, then let me know of what you think.

Isn't it best to use "Allah" instead of "God" ?

Is this April fools too? Seems like ur being serious.

In Iran they say Khoda. doesn't matter, for religious people it isn't a name, god does not have a name, they are words used to refer to the entity that is god/allah etc, for people of an abrahamic persuasion at least.

My Turkish friend pronounces Google as Gog-Lay.

I agree with all of you but my point was that God could be used to any one with something extraordinary like just take an example of a cricketer "Sachin Tendulkar" he is said to be a god of cricket. what do you get by that then.

Dear Sirius99,
In reply to your question my signature "Da khepelvaki satandoa Gharanai" means "Savior of Independence, Mountainous".

khepelvaki = Independence
Satandoa = Savior
Gharanai = Mountainous

And that is not ghazni but Gharanai (my name)!!!

Dear Gharanai it's all a matter of perception.I am not a muslim but have many muslim friends.In India generally a muslim won't use the word God instead of Allah unless he considers English his mother tongue.If you wish I will explain more.

Got what you wanted to tell, but still I would insist on using the word (Allah) , I guess it's up to ones' thinking!

Yes Dear Gharanai.Each to his way.

��Tian�� was used by the Zhou dynasty. Before that, the Shang used the term ��Di��. As ��Di��in ��HuangDi(the yellow emperor)��&/or��HuangDi(emperor)��.

But, Chinese term ��Di��originally referred to ancestor. For example, In Shang oracle bone inscriptions, later Shang sovereigns would call WuDing(a famous Shang King) as ��Di Ding��.

The character ��Di��in its early form looked like a pistil & a stamen of a plant, its probably the result of an agricultural society, in which it symbolized fertility, thus to have a flourishing population, and to have a generation come down to the next.

It might had been entitled to those most important ��HuaXia��chieftains, such as legendary��five Dis��, and the Yellow&Fire emperors(HuangDi&YanDi).It was a reference to ancestry and linage during Shang dynasty, ��Di��as ��paramount gods��in ancient China meant ancestors.

The Zhou was one of most important vassals of the Shang dynasty. From some Zhou inscriptions of their divination practice, the Zhou also worshiped Shang ��gods��, demonstrates strong cultural link between the two. Nevertheless, when the Zhou came to rule, they replaced the word ��Di��with ��Tian��(literally means sky) was because they are situated to far west. Whereas the Shang in the central plain could get abundance of tortoise-shells for their oracle bone writings as they are the overlord.

But, Zhou as a vassal state to inland western province of ShannXi would hardly get those materials. So the Zhou developed a way by using astronomy(Tian) and calculation(Shu, threads made of plans to count) for those divination practices. Its because of this special emphasis of Zhou culture, that the concept of ��Tian��replaced ��Di��when they came to rule.

The Character ��Tian��in its pictographic form, looked like a man stands facing front, with a round object on his head. As if worshiping it.

Originally posted by Cywr if an American is called "Jone", I am sure that he is also called "Jone" in any other language of the world Not necessarily, for example, John in English becomes Jan in Dutch, Johan in German and Juan in Spanish Anyways, isn't Allah supposed to have like 99,000 names or something?

Dear Cywr,
First of all I would like to say that whether it's English, Dutch or any other language, the position of alphabets could change or even there could be some addition or substraction of charecters, but still the name will not change, you see John, Jan, Johan, and Juan.

What we are talking about is Allah and God, which looks to me completly different and what I realy meant was that the word "God" is not proper as it has plural form along with a option of gender (Goddess) and where Allah is one and no one knows whether Allah is male of female.

Secondly there are 99 (not some un-factfull number 99,000) names showing attributs of Allmighty Allah.

Hope I have clearified you, with this response otherwise your comments and questions are most welcome.

Originally posted by Gharanai Originally posted by Cywr if an American is called "Jone", I am sure that he is also called "Jone" in any other language of the world Not necessarily, for example, John in English becomes Jan in Dutch, Johan in German and Juan in Spanish Anyways, isn't Allah supposed to have like 99,000 names or something? Dear Cywr, First of all I would like to say that whether it's English, Dutch or any other language, the position of alphabets could change or even there could be some addition or substraction of charecters, but still the name will not change, you see John, Jan, Johan, and Juan.

• All
• That who is

• All (including us)
• That who is (including us)

This is Tian, first row is how its written in Shang oracle bone inscriptions, second row is from Zhou dynasty bronze ware inscriptions, third example is standardized version by LiSi prime minister of Qin dynasty.

this is how Tian writes today

Tian in oracle bone writings,

this is a rock carving discovered in inner Mongolia

this is character Di in oracle bone writing

The English word God is translated as ShangDi(shang=above/on top of)

whereas allah is ZhenZhu(literally means real lord)

By the Zhou dynasty, Chinese rulers called themselves, Tian Zi,(son of heaven), if Tian has no difference in connotation to God or Allah other than difference in language, then Tian Zi should also be considered as Son of Gods

Which in China's case, was not true.

For one, Chinese Tian is a term strongly associated with astronomy and agriculture. Its a general term made on awareness of importance of natural force that can affect the development of agriculture. And the man who had most of those knowledge were leaders of Zhou(even earlier stage, chieftains of HuaXia). Its the difference that Shang Kings laterly relied these practice on special officials so that themselves were not necessarily knowledgable in astronomy&calculations, whereas the Zhou rulers were often in charge of these practice, thats where&why the notion Son of Heaven, thus Zhou's usage of Tian replaced Shang term of Di.

Another explanation of character Di is its depiction of pile of firewood which Shang make when they are offering ritual ceremony to Tian.

Tian in oracle bone writings is composed of two parts, one is a man, above him is an oversized head, probably reference to celestial body. As ancient Chinese believed that the heaven is round, the earth is square. As this

Jade Cong found in ShanXi province (2100 B.C)

and jade Cong of LiangZhu culture(3300-2000 B.C)

presents.

God is impersonationed being whos credited with creation of things. Tian has no such impersonation attribute.

Ancient agricultural Chinese believed Tian is a factor that man cant change or control, but man can make changes. Its an emphasize on man rather than Tian.

basically the concept of Tian is above/on top of man, Tian is same as Dian(top of) in oracle bones inscription, which a phrase Ji(illness)Tian, means ones head got illness, Tian here means the top of man.

but the heaven is also above/ on top of man.

this is late YangShao tomb which dates back 6500 years. Discovered in PuYang city, in HeNan province. The significance of this discovery is that they found earliest archaeological evidence of Chinese totem of dragon.

but thats only cultural significance of it, more to add is its astronomical&social significance. As they discovered contained in this series of tombs, the earliest Chinese astronomy map.

as in this picture, structure below the body is a depiction of the Dipper. In ancient China, a term Bi had two meanings, one is watch/clock, the other being hipbone. This archaeological discovery showed vividly why ancient Chinese used hipbone to refer clock.

because during the day, time is measured by the shadow of man, using hipbones to form stem part of the Dipper is representation of that practice(also ritual sacrifice, the hipbone dont belong to the master of the tomb, rather to a youngster whom with cut shows clearly unnatural death). While the stars of the Dipper can be observed clearly during the night.

The Dipper depiction is only part of this astronomical map, the tomb itself is square shaped with arched ceiling, a representation of Chinese concept of round heaven & square earth. Stars represented with shells are found within the tombs. The dragon to the east & the tiger to the west design formed basic concept of traditional Chinese belief of four symbols that divide the celestial body, which the Dipper is the central chamber. Also four governors of solar terms which are the Spring Equinox,summer solstice,the Autumnal Equinox&winter solstice were represented by dead bodies from other tombs which together with this one composed entire representation of the celestial body. As these knowledges are important to the development of agriculture. Also design of the Dipper might give an explanation why ancient Chinese believed 'union/harmony between Tian/heaven and man'.

Only son of heaven can be referred with the Dipper, experts believe the host of this tomb probably was an important HuaXia chieftain. As its accordant with historical texts state that city of PuYang was the birth place of HuaXia, once ruling centre of ZhuanXu(grandson of Huangdi). Legend has it that when Huangdi and ZhuanXu died, they ride dragon to heaven.

As discovered in another related tomb of this site,depiction(made of shells) a man riding on the back of dragon. Which is correlative to the legend. 

Tian is observation of the celestial body, it is above where men live, as it would affect agriculture, those who had the knowledge of Tian were men of important political&religious status.

Thats why the Zhou kings replaced the Shang's concept, as they were more engaged personally in these agricultural related astronomy and calculations, they began to associated themselves with Tian, then called themselves son of Heaven, As if there is a blood relation. But for the Shang, Tian has no blood relation with the Shang Kings, Di might has, as many of those Dis Shang offered rituals were Shang's earlier kings. But they are only messengers of Tian who live in the Tian/above man.

Those are some really informative data added dear The Charioteer, thanks alot for sharing it.

You are quite right as far as not being a muslim, most of the people around the globe think that Allah is male in gender, but infact I really don't think that light (noor) has any gender as we beleive that Allah is made of light and as powerful light that no one can see.

That's not a bad idea at all to have more than 99 attributive names for Allmighty Allah as the more you describe about Allah the less it is. So I aggree with that comment but by adding the word Attributive along names.

I'm in agreement with Zagros who said it short and clear.

Here is why.
No matter how we refer to the devine being in Abrahamic beliefs, its the same being we are talking about.
Through history, many words (often percieved as names) have been used to refer to this.
As far I remember, using a name for God is actually blasphemy - His reference to Himself was:  I AM....
We shouldnt picture God - we shouldnt name him.

When Christians use the word God - noone is in doubt who this word refers to. It can only be one.

Idolising humans with reference to "Godhood" is always used in context - like this: "he is the god of blues" - "he is a  tennisgod" etc.
Never just God.

The word Allah isnt a name (as many think) - but a contraction of two arabic words "al - il�h" meaning: "the - god" or "the - deity".

And Gharanai - "il�h" actually IS masculine form. "Allah" does have a gender.

So there is no difference whether you say Allah "the God" or simply "God".

Hence the tagline of this thread Gharanai - Did I prove you wrong?

Thanks to The Charioteer - loads of interesting information

nope, Al Ilah is pronounced Al Ilah, Allah is pronunced Allah. there is difference.

its a name of the only God as  muslims belive and as Christan and Jewish Arabs belive and the name of the Supreme God as other Arabs before islam belived.

yes i was talking about the pronounciation, and my point was that Allah is a world used only for the Only God.

while the term Al Ilah can be used for anything that is worshipped, like if i made a statment saying "Al Ilah end al Egreeq Zeus" iam saying The god of the Greek is Zeus,

if i said "Allah end al egreeq Zeus" it wont be correct and will sound wrong because as i said Allah is a name for specific God who is belived to be the one and the only.

while Al Ilah can be used as "The God" for anything other than Allah that is worshipped.

---------------

about the orgin

its root from Ilah, but as i described above its not refering to any God anymore and can be used only when refereing to the only God ( as belived be Judaisism, christianity and islam)

Ilah's root is semitic.

Thank you Azimut for your clarification.

Am I simplifying too much by extracting this from your post:

Allah is the name of the only true God, derived from il�h / al-il�h - but par tradition/culture changed to Allah since the expression al-il�h means, "the god" in contrast to "THE God".

So ergo,  "God" (used in the Christian sense as described in my first post) is equivalent to your "Allah" - since they both are directed to the one, only and same devine being.
Neither one is more correct than the other.

I would like to respond you with simple words that it depends on ones mentality, idealogy and way of thinking. So you understand it in that way and I in my way.

On the other hand is it right ot call you "Shamali Sar'ai" which in pashto refers to "Northman", I guess no, it isn't right so my point is to say that why not to use the original word "Allah" instead of its translation "God"?

And I am sorry to say that those ones weren't really a satisfying answer so I guess the Subject of the Thread keeps the same.

May Allah be with you - peace.

Originally posted by Northman Indeed, and I will defend your right to your choice (nomatter what reason you may have). You started out in this thread - wanting us to challenge your statement, quoting scriptures etc. More people did challenge the statement in more ways (background, logic etc.), proving that there could be equal good reasons for using other names. Now, maybe when you feel a bit cornered, you turn the discussion into a matter of choice. No problem with that either. The problem is - noone is saying your choise is wrong or invalid - but you still challenge all other choices - wont accept or respect them to be equal valid to yours. But when everything comes to an end - that choice is also your priviledge May Allah be with you - peace.

Dear Northman,
First of all I would say that I really do respect others opinions and choices and never say that they might be wrong. What I started and say is (you may see my first post of this thread) that MUSLIMS should stop using the word GOD instead of Allah, I never pointed out others while others did so, but I really do like most of those comments as you can see that I have appreciated some of those comments which were really informative.

Now that I used the word "Choice" in my previous post, it was because I wanted to tell you that you (all of you) are also right regarding to your mentality, belief and way of thinking.

But I still would want my muslim brothers and sister to think about it and why really not to use "Allah" instead of "God".

I don't have anything with the "God" as well in Pashto also use "Ceshtan" and "Khudawand".

The points was and is that the word "God" has plural form where there is only ONE Allah. It also has gender selection (God and Goddess) and Allah has no gender.

Those are the points which made me think about the word "God"!

I'm not muslim and I'm from Iran, and frankly I call God "khoda" like any other Iranian would  ... and by the way... people call people's names diffrently in diffrent languages... for example: English David = Davood in Persian, Englsih Solomon = Soleimaan in Persian, English John = Yohaun in Persian ... and so on... and I'm pretty sure that you know this too, because as I recall people in Afghanistan like many other countries also speak Persian. So I'm 100% sure that God will not mind what you would call Him

Another point I came across was the point that was brought up by some fellow thinkers on this site... the topic as I understand changed from God and Allah being two diffrent identities... which I should disagree...

you see, if you examine the languages they are all very close to eachother ... when we start somewhere on Earth and draw a dot and listen to the native person from that point speak, then draw a big circle and listen to the people around him speak and then a bigger circle and so on... you can easily see how a word from one language slowly changes to a new word in a bigger circle... Now if you do that to Arabic word Allah and get to a place where people speak English and say God you'll see that God is infact the word Allah with slight modifications here and there... but there is one thing to remember... when you're doing this excersise you should remember to always count in the "dead languages" because they play a key role in connecting everything together ... infact this is how I learned English

İn islam Allah has 99 names. And to many muslim do not use them. Sometimes they could call Allah in their own language whit differnt words. İt doesnt matter. The important thing is to beliwe ''The Creator''.