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Languages of your country
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akritas View Drop Down
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Hegemom

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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Languages of your country
    Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 12:58
After my previous post and the reported to the  mods as also and  the British Historian C.M. Woodhouse please Arber report and the following document that published from the BritishOffice at Caserta and the known British officer and Historian F.W. Deakin as about the Cham allies of the fachsists.
 
 
 
 
Because Arber I speak with evidence and prooves and not with arbitaries quotes as you.
 
And stay in the topic and speak for your country and not seeking minorities in Greece.Albanian minority left,expelled or any other term want to use in 1945.
The only billiteral Greeks that speak Albanian dialect are the Arvanites,a group that is not  at all Albanian.
 
 
 
 


Edited by akritas - 02-Oct-2006 at 13:03
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Yiannis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 13:01
If you want to start a discussion on the Chams do not do it to the expense of this thread. Start a new one!
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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akritas View Drop Down
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Hegemom

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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 13:07
Yiannis in two previous posts I just answered in the arbitaries claims of Arber as about the excistance of Albanian(Chams) minority in Greece. And simply I prooved that there is not any Albanian minority in Greece. Also twice I mention that if Arber want to post for the Albanian in Greece just to open a new thread.
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 13:55

Please do not turn this thread into another Balkanese frontline.

If you want to discuss the history of minorities on the Greek/Albanian border please do so in a civilised and factual manner in another thread.
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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Arbr Z View Drop Down
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 13:55

Excuse me for breaking the rules, and beeing offtopic

But in my personal opinion, it goes against every human value, and against my consiousness to justify a massive expatriation (not to say a genocide) with the simple (and nonsense) formula, "Vae Victis". This is not the era of the Ceasars, we live in the XXI century. One of the basic Human Rights is the right to property, and no one can deny this to nobody, independently of any circumstances.
And I believe that in All Empires, which is a history forum, the members should mirror the values of knowledge, wisdom, and humanism.
We shouldnt accept prejudices of any sense, especially when they are so offensive to an entire community, or nation. I do not care who is the english army official that stated the first that "the chams were fascists". I know that is not true, because the Chams were a comunity like any other, made of men, women, children and oldmans. In my opinion saying that the chams were/are fascists is like saying that the germans were/are nazis, and which is not true at all. If there ever were cham fascists, this were an elite, or a small group of people. I dont see how a community could be prejudiced like this.
 
Begging your pardon again, I quited with this, akritas, if you have any interest in this make a detailed research
Prej heshtjes...!
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 13:27
Chile (Southern South America)
 
Spanish (Oficial) 16.000.000
 
Mapuche (Native American) 600.000
Aymara (Native American) 60.000
Easter Islander (Polynesian) 4.000
 
Preffered second language: English.
 
Other (German, Italian, French, Romane)
 
Pinguin
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Posts: 313 		  Quote Kerimoglu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 06:57
Azerbaijan Turkish, Azeri, Azerbaijani, Caucasian Turkish or whatever u want to call, it is the language that people mostly speek in Azerbaijan. Second I would say would be Russian, and the third is English. But they're very narrow used.
History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow!
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Posts: 166 		  Quote Barbarroja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 12:14
Originally posted by pinguin

Chile (Southern South America)
 
Spanish (Oficial) 16.000.000
 
Pinguin
 
Thumbs Up
I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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bg_turk View Drop Down
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Posts: 2347 		  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 13:10

Chams have a very convincing case to build in European Courts of human rights and can invoke precendents, where the ECHR has ruled in favor of oppressed minorities such as in the case of Cyprus, and I am surprised none have applied yet.

Greece must account for its crimes and must return all illegally stolen Cham property.
http://www.journalof911studies.com
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Posts: 1028 		  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 14:58
bg_turk, then also Turkey will have to return hundreds of thousands of stolen greek properties. There can't be two standards. If Turkey denies this to Greece, then why not Greece deny it to the albanians? 

Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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RealMacedonian View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote RealMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 17:32
no property needs to be returned to the chams (as there is none that is theirs).
on the other hand, i think greece should deport them for being nationalistic and separatist
Macedonia, including aegean and pirin region, rightfully ours. Cheers.
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The Chargemaster View Drop Down
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Posts: 1066 		  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 18:07
Originally posted by RealMacedonian

Macedonian is also spoken in large parts of Greece,Alboland, Serbia (kosovo included) and mostly in Bulgaria

Yes - mostly in Bulgaria - as official language.

in Bulgaria where half of the residents are Mak citizens, the other half are Turks.

So... according to you we are "MACETURKIANS"!
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perikles View Drop Down
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 04:09
OK because i was bored reading about the Macedonian language(which you support that it is not greek and the macedonians nowdays are descendants of ancient non greek macedonians) i wait to see PROOVES.
1)the alphabet of the modern macedonian language
2)the alphabet of the ancient macedonian language
3)in which part of Greece they spoke the macedonian language
 
lets see what are the similarities of the language that Alexander the Great was spoking with the language of Kiro Gligorof!!!! Or even the Bulgarian language or any other language. And see the similarities of ancient macedonian and ancient or modern greek.
 
There is also another way of thinking. The Greeks are descendant of ancient Macedonians. :)
 
Due to really much work and seminars i don't have time to post the large amount of info from ancient sources (Greeks sources because at that time none else had the culture of reaching that high level of culture.)
 
So in Greece we are speak Greek, Vlachs(a small amount of people), Albanian(not official but from the imigrants), Romanian(not official but from the imigrants) and what the pomakik. Thats all. In a few days with prooves for the macedonian language
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
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EGETRK View Drop Down
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Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 04:30
Originally posted by perikles

.
 
There is also another way of thinking. The Greeks are descendant of ancient Macedonians. :)
So,be respectfully to your ''New Macedonian'' brothers...
 
Originally posted by perikles

So in Greece we are speak Greek, Vlachs(a small amount of people), Albanian(not official but from the imigrants), Romanian(not official but from the imigrants) and what the pomakik. Thats all. In a few days with prooves for the macedonian language
Trk too...Always you try to refuse it...but it is a reality my Hellllenic freind...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
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perikles View Drop Down
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 04:42
Where thry speak Turk. Unless you mean some members of the islamic minority in Thrace who speaks turk. But the percentage is not high.
Samos national guard.

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EGETRK View Drop Down
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Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2006 at 10:54
'''Muslims who are the only officially recognised minority in Greece, Around half are of Turkish origin'''

from english version of wikipedia...Trk vesion says that 170.000 of the 420.000(population of west Trakya) is Trk


Edited by EGETRK - 07-Oct-2006 at 10:56
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
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Ellin View Drop Down
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Posts: 135 		  Quote Ellin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 08:53
Originally posted by EGETRK

'''Muslims who are the only officially recognised minority in Greece, Around half are of Turkish origin'''

from english version of wikipedia...Trk vesion says that 170.000 of the 420.000(population of west Trakya) is Trk


EGETURK how soon you forget..
let me refresh your memory

Originally posted by EGETURK

İ can not understand how can you believe to Wikipedia's infos...Everybody can wirte there what they want


Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there an exchange of populations by the name of "The Lausanne Treaty" back in 1923, whereby Greece forcibly expelled 400,000 Turks, while the Turks expelled 1 million Greeks.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/rev2006-04-04td.html

So how is it that there is still a large, by Egeturk's standards, Turkish contigency in Greece??  Did they do a shifty on us, and migrate back again somehow? hehe




Edited by Ellin - 08-Oct-2006 at 09:04
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EGETRK View Drop Down
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Posts: 300 		  Quote EGETRK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2006 at 16:48


EGETURK how soon you forget..
let me refresh your memory
That is a subject that English Wiki' is more objective,and believable for you...But if The Statistics were wrong,admisntration could change them,but they did not do it...

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there an exchange of populations by the name of "The Lausanne Treaty" back in 1923, whereby Greece forcibly expelled 400,000 Turks, while the Turks expelled 1 million Greeks.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/rev2006-04-04td.html

Unless Western Trakya Trks and İstanbul Greeks,remember that...And There were Karaman Trks (who were ordotox) who immigrated to Greece because of Lausane Treaty...
The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
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perikles View Drop Down
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Posts: 373 		  Quote perikles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 07:00
Karaman they were transfed to Cyprus by the Sultan Selim II. What is your point? What have to do with THrace?
Samos national guard.

260 days left.
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 19:36
In Spain:
 
*Spanish (or Castilian): Everybody, althogh right-wing parties say that it is in danger.
 
*Catalan:  5 000 000 native speakers in Catalonia, Valencia, Balear Islands and Aragon (total 8 or 9 million).
 
*Galician: About 2 000 000 in Galicia and Leon. Youngsters speak Spanish!
 
*Basque: a bit more than 500 000 in Basque Country (25%)and Navarra (10%) Huge minority among Spanish speaking majority.
 
*Asturian-Leonese: 300 000 in Asturias and Leon. Old people's languageCry. There's a new interest in language, but in Leon is virtually impossible to find Leonese speaking people.
 
*Aragonese: a few thousands, maybe between 10 and 20000 in Aragon, probably much less than that.
 
*Occitan: 3500 people in Val  d'Aran (Catalonia).
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